Author Topic: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation  (Read 24617 times)

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #150 on: January 08, 2018, 11:14:40 AM »
Has anyone looked at continuing to work as a non-executive director in a reasonably sized company? It involves a relatively small amount of very high-level work, and I'd have thought the requirements (intelligence, strong educational background, good knowledge of broader market trends) would be a good fit for a certain type of Mustachian. I understand it's something that may require connections, but a financially independent high achiever with plenty of free time and an interest in the market would be a very strong candidate.

Similarly, if youíre a woman with executive experience, try to get on a board of anything.

I envision my retirement involving a few board positions.

lemonlyman

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #151 on: January 08, 2018, 11:31:42 AM »
Seasonal tax accountant is my plan. I like getting in the zone and working 12 hours a day or so sometimes. Just not all the time. 4 months on, 8 months off sounds perfect to me.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #152 on: January 08, 2018, 12:17:47 PM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #153 on: January 08, 2018, 01:05:06 PM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.

I grew up in a ski town, plenty of the staff were older, especially the non-beginner level instructors.
The ski hills are the biggest employers in my home town, itís definitely not just youth working there.

Early retirees can easily be fit, healthy and vital enough to do physical jobs. I donít get whatís unrealistic about it.

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EngineeringFI

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #155 on: January 08, 2018, 05:29:13 PM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.

I've worked with plenty of lifeguards over the age of 40 and several over the age of 50. Of course, they were excellent swimmers, but that's a requirement regardless of age.

JLee

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #156 on: January 08, 2018, 06:25:01 PM »
I just retired last month from a corporate job.  It was an early retirement, but not so early by MMM standards.  I am thinking about picking up a part-time, local retail gig, because I've never done anything like that and I think it could be fun!  Low pay, but no meetings, no 60-hour work weeks, no killer commute and no crushing responsibilities.  If I don't like it, I certainly don't need to stay for 39 years like I did with my corporate employer.  These jobs are so easy to come by right now, but I agree with others that this will not be the case when there is another economic downturn.
 

Trust me, you might think it is fun, but the caliber of people you will work with will be an eye opener. My friend works for Walmart (WM) and she tells me stories you wouldn't believe of some of her coworkers. She formerly worked in banking for 20 years and in HR for around 10 years but during the recession lost her job and couldn't find a decent job. Now she is close to retirement.

One woman who worked at my friends WM was killed by her boyfriend. Another one is divorced with two kids and broke but sending money to some guy in Africa who she thinks is in love with her. Others my friend has had to train that can't be trained. They just don't have the skills to learn. She has done everything but stand on her head to help these people learn but they just don't get it! Then there is the local grocery store that has bottle returns and the machines are always full or malfunctioning. They always send the new guy out to remedy the situation. Gathering up the shopping carts out in the snow or rain. Then the hours usually are horrible. They won't give you enough hours to get benefits. You will work weekends or second or third shift. Don't forget all the holidays. Most stores don't shut down for any holidays. If the store opens on Black Friday at 1 am, you will be scheduled to come in to work the hellish night shift and deal with these customers rampaging thru the store. People do disgusting things in the bathrooms and you might be told to clean it up. They are not very tolerant of absences no matter what the excuse. Don't think you will get overtime. They schedule very tightly and expect you to be there on time and leave on time. To go from a corporate type job to a retail gig is really not easy to swallow. But, good luck if you try this!

Youíre also citing one of the most notorious cases of a company that is known for not exactly being great to its staff.

Retail doesnít necessarily mean Walmart.
I worked in retail for several years and had some great chill jobs working in little mom and pop shops and then in menswear in a mall in my early 20s where I actually met my husband when he came in to buy a shirt. I enjoyed my time in retail, I like chatting with people, and Iím a neat freak so I found folding clothes all day to be meditative.

My parents both own(ed) stores and employ only middle aged people looking for a bit of extra income, either stay at home moms, artists, or retired people. They work reasonable hours and no holidays. Mom and pop shops usually close on holidays because the sales volume canít offset the increased wages on those days.

My dad worked his own retail store until his early 70s and he would have kept at it except that his wife didnít want to continue and wanted to move (they lived upstairs). He loved it, he loved being part of the community and chatting with locals all day. He misses it now and has gotten really involved in local politics to compensate for the missing connection to the community.

Retail is an enormous category of jobs, I wouldnít cite a single personís experience working for Walmart as representative of the entire retail job experience overall.

Yep.

http://fortune.com/2017/11/07/best-workplaces-in-retail/

I worked for Publix for years when I was much younger.  It wasn't bad at all.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 06:28:59 PM by JLee »

MicroRN

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2018, 07:17:27 PM »
My husband jokes about going to work at Home Depot after he retires from the military. 

Healthcare has a lot of possibilities.  Hospitals and nursing homes employ massive numbers of people, and most of the jobs require no training or experience.  Of course many are physically demanding and not exactly prestigious.  Janitorial, cafeteria, materials management, transporters, security, administrative assistants, unit clerks, schedulers... Some healthcare jobs require a little training but are in demand - home health aids, phlebotomists, CNAs.  Monitor surveillance techs here have a 3 month course, but make around $30K.  The nice thing is that healthcare jobs often have great flexibility if you need to work per diem, or opposite shifts from your partner, or weekends only.     

As an RN, I plan to keep up my license, certification, and at least enough ongoing work to keep me employable.  The consensus seems to be that about 2 years out of work is when you start having trouble getting hired.  The nice thing is I can work per diem, just a few shifts/month to stay current.  When I'm ready to step out of FT work, I'll probably do Hospice home health. 

kpd905

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #158 on: January 08, 2018, 08:02:40 PM »
Seasonal tax accountant is my plan. I like getting in the zone and working 12 hours a day or so sometimes. Just not all the time. 4 months on, 8 months off sounds perfect to me.

I've thought about this too.  Are you a CPA now?  I am interested in studying for the Enrolled Agent exam, and then I guess either going to H&R block or finding a CPA who needs some help during the busy season.
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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #159 on: January 09, 2018, 11:12:07 AM »
Seasonal tax accountant is my plan. I like getting in the zone and working 12 hours a day or so sometimes. Just not all the time. 4 months on, 8 months off sounds perfect to me.

I've thought about this too.  Are you a CPA now?  I am interested in studying for the Enrolled Agent exam, and then I guess either going to H&R block or finding a CPA who needs some help during the busy season.

A friend of mine works during tax season and is not an accountant.  She works for a small firm doing the administrative side of the return, putting the stuff the accountant prints out back together to be returned to the client etc.

Chalk me up as a National Park bum.  I'll work in Yellowstone's gift shop or something.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #160 on: January 09, 2018, 11:30:05 AM »
School bus driver or substitute teacher. Our school system is begging for drivers and subs every year.


I live in farm country, Ohio, and the schools are the same here.

TheWifeHalf

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #161 on: January 09, 2018, 11:51:47 AM »
One of TheHusbandHalf's best accomplishments:
In 1991 or so, he lost his job at the RR docks. Not one to sit around (with me even!) he applied and took maybe 5 different jobs in the 5 months he was off. His last one, before he got the job he still has now, was delivering alum.

I wish I could tell you what alum is, but it's delivered in a big tanker truck. He had never driven a semi in his life but with what he had done, thought he'd give the test a try. He did all the reading required, mentally went over driving in his brain, and set out for his testing appointment. He got it!!!!! He kept the CDL part of his driver's license for years.

So, he delivered alum, in a tanker, for 7-8 weeks., until the refinery employed him, where he is now.

Sometimes now, we drive down a road, and he says, "I drove my truck on this road" and it's been 25 years! He loved driving that truck.

The refinery parking lot is down the road from the RR docks and for a couple of years he parked out front 'just to show 'em.'

Why the story? You never know what jobs are going to be available, don't limit yourself.

The guy across the road worked at another refinery in the area, and retired. The refinery hired him back as a contracter, doing the same thing. TheHusbandHalf said there is no way he's going to do that.

lemonlyman

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #162 on: January 09, 2018, 12:57:40 PM »
Seasonal tax accountant is my plan. I like getting in the zone and working 12 hours a day or so sometimes. Just not all the time. 4 months on, 8 months off sounds perfect to me.

I've thought about this too.  Are you a CPA now?  I am interested in studying for the Enrolled Agent exam, and then I guess either going to H&R block or finding a CPA who needs some help during the busy season.

I take my first CPA exam in March. Should have it by the end of the summer. I don't need it for my job now, but yeah, I'm doing it for this back up plan. I had the education and experience requirements filled already so the CPA works for me, but the EA is good. You can definitely get a job with an EA or start your own business.

MrsPete

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #163 on: January 09, 2018, 02:38:12 PM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.
Every year neighborhoods in our area recruit teachers to "manage" pools -- not to act as lifeguards; rather, to hire staff, manage schedules, sell pool passes, keep the snack bar stocked, be sure the cleaners show up. 

I'd assume similar jobs would exist in ski country:  ticket seller, gift shop worker, etc. 

And I'd assume a 40-50 year old would have a leg-up on the teenagers.  Even if one's experience is in a different field, proven dependability counts for something.

KTG

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #164 on: January 09, 2018, 03:12:12 PM »
I would love to one day FIRE and then get a job as a park ranger. Or something that involves rescuing animals. Neither really pays well, but at that point I would be in it for the spiritual part of it, and not for the $$$.

FLStache

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #165 on: January 10, 2018, 10:34:21 AM »
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but what about the seasonal jobs with Amazon warehouses?  I've read some reviews and seems doable even for retirees.

Also, very dependent on your location, but I ran across some listings for jobs for baseball's Spring Training - seems like that would be fun for a month or so to sell tickets or work in concessions.  Also, seasonal jobs w/ amusement parks. 

I'm not so much worried about a FIRE failure, more so fun stuff to do in 'extra early' retirement.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2018, 03:11:16 PM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.



I lived at a ski resort and know many people on ski patrol. Most were over 40 or 50 (as is true for many lifeguards on SoCal beaches). Experience, reliability, and skill are just as valuable as physical ability (which most 40/50 people still have if working in those fields).

I stand corrected. And it's good to know.

MicroRN

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #167 on: January 14, 2018, 07:16:09 AM »
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but what about the seasonal jobs with Amazon warehouses?  I've read some reviews and seems doable even for retirees.


Depends on physical condition.  I've had a couple friends who worked as regular employees at an Amazon warehouse several years back, and it can be brutal.  You're moving fast for the entire 10 hr shift and there's no downtime.  Probably manageable for the healthy, fit early retiree, not so much for later ones.  That's not to say that my friends disliked their jobs (athletic mid-20s who did adventure races), but they said a lot of people quit in the first week or so because they couldn't physically keep up.  If you aren't fast enough, you get fired.  However, the pay was decent, they had reasonably flexible schedules, and stayed active at work.  They could also pick up almost unlimited overtime.   

BlueMR2

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #168 on: January 14, 2018, 10:47:24 AM »
The problem I see with FIRE failure is that it's likely to happen during an event that removes a lot of jobs from the market.  There simply may not be anything available.  I've been watching my wife try to find any kind of work the last few years.  Even now when we're supposedly at full employment, she's either turned away as over qualified or shows up to find 60 other people competing for 1 seat.  She usually makes it to the final round, but can't seem to break through to a full time position (but has had some short term part time stuff work out).  That's with just a small employment gap too.  A big employment gap is a killer come interview time.

sol

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #169 on: January 14, 2018, 02:03:04 PM »
Imagine being unemployed for a decade or 2 and then trying to find a job even if (or maybe because of) being fairly young still. HR person: So you're 50 and haven't worked in 20 years and haven't been a SAHP? Umm...yeah...we don't really have any jobs for you.

I refuse to be so ruled by fear. 

I believe in my own ability to find work.  I have found jobs before, both with and without experience, and I'm confident I could do it again if necessary.  I do not think that I am so shitty that nobody would ever hire me again.  I have skills and experience working all kinds of jobs, I am dependable and honest and reliable, I show up on time and follow directions well, and I am both physically and mentally able to do a wide variety of tasks.  I think the economy will always have a place for me if I want one, somewhere, until I am senile or feeble. 

It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

Monkey Uncle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #170 on: January 15, 2018, 04:40:14 AM »
Imagine being unemployed for a decade or 2 and then trying to find a job even if (or maybe because of) being fairly young still. HR person: So you're 50 and haven't worked in 20 years and haven't been a SAHP? Umm...yeah...we don't really have any jobs for you.

I refuse to be so ruled by fear. 

I believe in my own ability to find work.  I have found jobs before, both with and without experience, and I'm confident I could do it again if necessary.  I do not think that I am so shitty that nobody would ever hire me again.  I have skills and experience working all kinds of jobs, I am dependable and honest and reliable, I show up on time and follow directions well, and I am both physically and mentally able to do a wide variety of tasks.  I think the economy will always have a place for me if I want one, somewhere, until I am senile or feeble. 

It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.
I don't give into fear as I don't think I'll ever have to.go.back to work and so FIREd fairly young.  And I also feel confident I could get some kind of job if I needed. Just might not be as easy in older age after decades off work then some envision. Even Wallymart will have robot greeters instead of old guys soon I predict ;-).

ETA: also if you've been out of the workforce forv10 or 20 years it might be harder to prove tova perspective employer that you have all those attributes you listed. For all they know you could have been avtrust fund baby in rehab all those years.

I think the key in this situation is to have something, anything, that you can put on your resume to show that you weren't just playing golf or sitting on your ass the whole time you were out of the work force.  It doesn't have to be paid work; it could be volunteer work, or even a hobby if it involves effort, skill, and/or interacting with others in a responsible manner.  And it would definitely help if your activities develop connections with people who could give a reference to attest to the fact that you do indeed possess the attributes that you list on your resume.
Took that job and shoved it - January 6, 2018

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #171 on: January 15, 2018, 04:48:16 AM »
Imagine being unemployed for a decade or 2 and then trying to find a job even if (or maybe because of) being fairly young still. HR person: So you're 50 and haven't worked in 20 years and haven't been a SAHP? Umm...yeah...we don't really have any jobs for you.

I refuse to be so ruled by fear. 

I believe in my own ability to find work.  I have found jobs before, both with and without experience, and I'm confident I could do it again if necessary.  I do not think that I am so shitty that nobody would ever hire me again.  I have skills and experience working all kinds of jobs, I am dependable and honest and reliable, I show up on time and follow directions well, and I am both physically and mentally able to do a wide variety of tasks.  I think the economy will always have a place for me if I want one, somewhere, until I am senile or feeble. 

It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.
I don't give into fear as I don't think I'll ever have to.go.back to work and so FIREd fairly young.  And I also feel confident I could get some kind of job if I needed. Just might not be as easy in older age after decades off work then some envision. Even Wallymart will have robot greeters instead of old guys soon I predict ;-).

ETA: also if you've been out of the workforce forv10 or 20 years it might be harder to prove tova perspective employer that you have all those attributes you listed. For all they know you could have been avtrust fund baby in rehab all those years.

And it might actually be A LOT easier after spending a decade+ doing interesting things and meeting interesting people.

I canít fathom the type of boring sad person who retires early just to do absolutely nothing of value and learn no useful skill and associates with no one of any interest or consequence for 10-20 years.

FIRE + tons of free time and energy = you will probably do some really cool shit and meet some really cool people and have more interesting work available to you than you ever realized was possible.

Do some volunteering, learn a new language or two, develop some useful skills, literally do anything other than spending a decade scratching your balls, and you shouldnít have a hard time finding work, even in a recession because if you are doing interesting things, you are guantanteed to be networked with interesting people.

Iím the kind of person who is always involved in various projects, Iím always volunteering my time, Iím always meeting new people and taking an interest in what theyíre working on and always offering my help or input. Because of this, I have always been offered jobs, often jobs that Iím not even remotely qualified for.

Iíve had over a dozen serious jobs as an adult and I only interviewed for one, and thatís because it was urgent. I had actually spent three years networking and lining up an amazing job for after I graduated, but it fell through at the very last minute, so I was stuck scrambling urgently to find work in a city i hadnít lived in for four years, where I had no active network.
I hated having to look for work that way, applying online, etc. It was depressing.

Oh, and I used to work in staffing. I interviewed people for a living.
Iím well aware of the employer biases that people are speaking of, but my experience in staffing also taught me that itís urgency to find a job that makes it a difficult task.
I said this above already: post-FIRE people are ideally positioned to never need jobs urgently. They have time to invest in their networking in order to find work if they need it.

If you are post-FIRE, then you have the luxury of strategically investing time and energy into volunteering and re-upping your skills. Spend a year working on multiple high level volunteer committees and you are guaranteed to be rubbing elbows with a wide variety of important people who are *always* on the lookout for talent. Same thing for local politics, community projects/initiatives, even individual companies.

I volunteered at a nursing home: got offered a job. I volunteered at a winter festival: got offered a job with the city. I volunteered with special needs kids: got offered a job mentoring/tutoring. I volunteered on the planning committee for the MS Society: got offered a job with the society, got offered a job at a bank (a VP was on the committee), got offered a job with a telecom company. I volunteered to help my university department during a staff strike: got offered a job.
And those are all examples from when I was still in undergrad, and barely qualified to do anything other than work hard and have a positive and helpful attitude.

Iím not saying itís easy, Iím saying that it takes time and effort, both of which should be readily available to early retirees.

I literally have ZERO concern about my ability to generate income at any stage of my life no matter how long Iíve been out of the work force. I think if thereís a global downturn, that it will actually be much MUCH easier for me to find work than for the poor laid off people who desperately need it to pay their mortgages because they donít have a year to spend networking and skill building. They need to take whatever they can get. Iíll be able to sit back, survey they jobs landscape, position myself strategically, and maybe even sniff out the rich opportunities that hide in downturns.

Lastly ďIíll work for free for a yearĒ is a powerful phrase that can make magic happen.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 04:52:11 AM by Malkynn »

cerat0n1a

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #172 on: January 15, 2018, 06:15:48 AM »
I volunteered at a nursing home: got offered a job. I volunteered at a winter festival: got offered a job with the city. I volunteered with special needs kids: got offered a job mentoring/tutoring. I volunteered on the planning committee for the MS Society: got offered a job with the society,

To corroborate this, my wife who was a SAHM for 15 years, volunteered with two different charities and was later offered jobs by both, being paid to do things she previously did for free.

What seems to be common in my industry is to cover periods out of work with "consultancy", particularly on LinkedIn. If you think there's a chance you might want to go back to work in a few years, just call yourself a consultant. An interviewer is not going to audit the accounts of some consultancy company to see what revenue it had and whether you actually did anything. Amazing how many of these consultancies seem to have a non-disclosure agreement so that the person can't talk about clients or what work they did. Gets you past the "social proof" problem of "if there's nothing wrong with this guy, why hasn't somebody else already hired them?"

freya

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #173 on: January 15, 2018, 07:08:48 AM »
Doesn't seem too realistic to expect to get a job as a lifeguard or ski patrol when you are 40 or 50 years old.
perhaps MORE likely:
"Ski Patroller Among Worst Paying Jobs in America | SKI-PATROL.NET
SKI-PATROL.NET õ wordpress õ ski-pat...
Oct 13, 2014 - The average age of ski patrollers in the US is now over 50, indicating that younger candidates are unwilling to accept either the low wages noted above for paid patrollers, or the non-financial remuneration offered by ..."

I lived at a ski resort and know many people on ski patrol. Most were over 40 or 50 (as is true for many lifeguards on SoCal beaches). Experience, reliability, and skill are just as valuable as physical ability (which most 40/50 people still have if working in those fields).

That reminds me of an elderly couple I met many years ago while camping in Alaska.  They were camp caretakers at Wonder Lake in Denali National Park, which is only open part of the year.  They had an extremely space-efficient mini RV, sort of like the setup that John Steinbeck described in Travels with Charley but with bathroom/shower.  Every winter they traveled south to stay with their kids.  They did not own a house.  No electronics or other gadgets except for a ham radio - this was before the era of smartphones.  They told me this delightful story when I knocked on their door with a question, and they invited me in for hot chocolate.

Something like this would be the ultimate FIRE rescue.  A "lite" version could be Airbnb'ing your house for a few months and
then taking on a position at a national park - even just as a volunteer.  Your expenses are pretty darn low when you're living in a cabin or RV away from civilization.

Long shot but...has anyone else met this couple?  You'd have had to be camping at Wonder Lake sometime around 1996.

desk_jockey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #174 on: January 15, 2018, 08:18:14 AM »
It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

I too am surprised at the pessimism and skepticism about the ability to find income producing work, especially when it doesnít take much to move the needle.  A couple who started at a 4% WR of $1.5M only need to earn an inflation-adjusted $15,000 per year to move their withdraw rate temporarily to very safe 3%. 

$15-$20K would not be so difficult for a couple in decent health to earn if they are each willing to work more than one part time job.  There are plenty of feasible ideas in this thread.

The advantage that the early retiree has is flexibility.  Why work at Wal-mart when you can earn enough by combining 2 shifts per week at the cash register of the local golf pro shop, reselling some items on Amazon, and a bit of Uber?

Rather than working part-time for many years, the early retiree can go back to work full-time for a few years to alleviate financial concerns.  Itís not easy to find a job when youíve been retired for 10-years, but again flexibility is the key.   If you donít need to find a job immediately but rather need to move into a job within 2 years, then you can start by doing a little volunteer work at a several places and networking with the people that you meet.   A lot of jobs are fulfilled through recommendations, so the retiree would need to actively put themselves out there so they can be recommended.   

desk_jockey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #175 on: January 15, 2018, 10:22:07 AM »
Posted by a sad boring volleyball scratcher

BFGirl

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #176 on: January 15, 2018, 10:47:03 AM »
I think it is definitely going to be harder to find employment if you are over 50 and there is a downturn with lots of people competing for jobs.  I see a friend of mine struggling with this right now because of her age and unemployment is low. 

However, I think innovative people will be able to find something. 

I've considered the possibility of cleaning houses or seeing if I can get on at a temp agency if my FIRE plans don't work like I've planned.  I shouldn't need a lot of money to get me through.

L2

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #177 on: January 15, 2018, 11:01:28 AM »
I enjoyed reading through this thread. Like a few others, my plan for some side income for at least a few years after FIRE will be seasonal tax work. Some other things that are fun (and lower earning) that I have in mind are working on/owning a fishing charter, refereeing, coaching, and being a whitewater rafting guide. Not sure if I want to combine the "fun" jobs with the non-fun one or not (meaning both in the same year) when the time comes. The busy seasons can be rough, but I am glad that I chose to go down the accounting path. So many options there.


gerardc

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #179 on: January 15, 2018, 01:15:01 PM »
And it might actually be A LOT easier after spending a decade+ doing interesting things and meeting interesting people.

I canít fathom the type of boring sad person who retires early just to do absolutely nothing of value and learn no useful skill and associates with no one of any interest or consequence for 10-20 years.

FIRE + tons of free time and energy = you will probably do some really cool shit and meet some really cool people and have more interesting work available to you than you ever realized was possible.

Do some volunteering, learn a new language or two, develop some useful skills, literally do anything other than spending a decade scratching your balls, and you shouldnít have a hard time finding work, even in a recession because if you are doing interesting things, you are guantanteed to be networked with interesting people.

Iím the kind of person who is always involved in various projects, Iím always volunteering my time, Iím always meeting new people and taking an interest in what theyíre working on and always offering my help or input. Because of this, I have always been offered jobs, often jobs that Iím not even remotely qualified for.

Iíve had over a dozen serious jobs as an adult and I only interviewed for one, and thatís because it was urgent. I had actually spent three years networking and lining up an amazing job for after I graduated, but it fell through at the very last minute, so I was stuck scrambling urgently to find work in a city i hadnít lived in for four years, where I had no active network.
I hated having to look for work that way, applying online, etc. It was depressing.

Oh, and I used to work in staffing. I interviewed people for a living.
Iím well aware of the employer biases that people are speaking of, but my experience in staffing also taught me that itís urgency to find a job that makes it a difficult task.
I said this above already: post-FIRE people are ideally positioned to never need jobs urgently. They have time to invest in their networking in order to find work if they need it.


If you are post-FIRE, then you have the luxury of strategically investing time and energy into volunteering and re-upping your skills. Spend a year working on multiple high level volunteer committees and you are guaranteed to be rubbing elbows with a wide variety of important people who are *always* on the lookout for talent. Same thing for local politics, community projects/initiatives, even individual companies.

I volunteered at a nursing home: got offered a job. I volunteered at a winter festival: got offered a job with the city. I volunteered with special needs kids: got offered a job mentoring/tutoring. I volunteered on the planning committee for the MS Society: got offered a job with the society, got offered a job at a bank (a VP was on the committee), got offered a job with a telecom company. I volunteered to help my university department during a staff strike: got offered a job.
And those are all examples from when I was still in undergrad, and barely qualified to do anything other than work hard and have a positive and helpful attitude.

Iím not saying itís easy, Iím saying that it takes time and effort, both of which should be readily available to early retirees.

I literally have ZERO concern about my ability to generate income at any stage of my life no matter how long Iíve been out of the work force. I think if thereís a global downturn, that it will actually be much MUCH easier for me to find work than for the poor laid off people who desperately need it to pay their mortgages because they donít have a year to spend networking and skill building. They need to take whatever they can get. Iíll be able to sit back, survey they jobs landscape, position myself strategically, and maybe even sniff out the rich opportunities that hide in downturns.

Lastly ďIíll work for free for a yearĒ is a powerful phrase that can make magic happen.

I agree with the sentiment but this urgency to find a job is mostly psychological, no? I can see some confident people with $10k savings taking it easy and taking the time to form connections, but I can also see a FIREee with $1M in a recession who starts to freak out and feels like they need a job ASAP; this won't necessarily turn out well.


It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

I too am surprised at the pessimism and skepticism about the ability to find income producing work, especially when it doesnít take much to move the needle.  A couple who started at a 4% WR of $1.5M only need to earn an inflation-adjusted $15,000 per year to move their withdraw rate temporarily to very safe 3%.   

You're aware that 3% is only "very safe" if you withdraw this from the very beginning until the end, right? Using 3% only in downturns is not enough in most cases. Maybe 2% would work, if you have the room in your budget.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 01:18:11 PM by gerardc »


FIRE Artist

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #181 on: January 15, 2018, 02:00:11 PM »

big_slacker

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #182 on: January 15, 2018, 02:39:46 PM »
It's also worth considering doing some research into a vocation that is very in demand that might need some short for pay training and certification. There is an up front cost but again if the field is in demand you have immediate work when you're done. And often when these fields are desperate for employees of ANY type if you come in having your shit together as a mature adult you're an immediate superstar.

Off the top of my head CNA, aesthetician, dental assistant, massage therapist, HVAC tech (my dad did this late in his career!), fitness instructor (my mom is almost 70, retired out of law enforcement and now teaches Zumba classes for fun and profit). All under a year of training.

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #183 on: January 15, 2018, 05:28:49 PM »
Quote from: spartana link=topic=83638.msg1855876#msg1855876 date=ave
Your FIRE life is/would be very different from mine (and probably an introverts version of hell lol) but I agree there are many things one can do in FIRE to improve your likelihood of getting a job someday if you ever need one asap.

Posted by a sad boring ball scratcher

Sure, the particulars of our retirements may be different, but I donít believe for a second that an introvert isnít just as capable or motivated as an extrovert to develop valuable skills, be involved in meaningful projects, and network effectively.

Iíve volunteered alongside plenty of intensely introverted people whom I have deeply respected whom have benefited professionally as much as I have from volunteering...if not more, because Iím a deeply abrasive person who doesnít always get along with authority.

I donít think you need to be an extrovert to be interesting, talented, and passionate about things.

My fatherís best friend is an intensely quiet introvert and when he retired from law, he ended up working as a book binder because he had had such a love of books that he ended up spending time with people who made books and was offered a job binding them. He loved it.

My sister is an introvert and through taking courses just out of interest has managed to accidentally generate an entire side hustle that sheíll likely leave her full time government job for.

My aunt retired several years ago from teaching and got bored and decided to take a university course since she lives right by a major university. There was a subsidized course teaching a little-known Inuit language. She loved it, took more courses, became fluent, spent a few months living up north getting to know the community and culture, and now she has official role as a consultant for the government and has a substantial grant to co-write a series of tri-lingual childrenís books about the culture.

Lastly, one of my main points has been that generally people who are post-FIRE arenít going to need work ASAP. They have giant sums of money, which puts them into the perfect position to take time to hone skills, survey the job market, and network effectively.

I think anyone smart enough to manage to retire early can figure out how to use their ample free time and resources to figure out how to reinforce their retirement if needed.
I also think people drastically underestimate just how difficult it is *not* to be productive long term.
Itís very very very difficult for effective people to accomplish nothing of value, and Mustachians are HIGHLY effective people in general.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 05:41:09 PM by Malkynn »

Retire-Canada

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #184 on: January 15, 2018, 05:34:03 PM »
Lastly, one of my main points has been that generally people who are post-FIRE arenít going to need work ASAP. They have giant sums of money, which puts them into the perfect position to take time to hone skills, survey the job market, and network effectively.

I think anyone smart enough to manage to retire early can figure out how to use their ample free time and resources to figure out how to reinforce their retirement if needed.

The FIREd person has time work out a plan and add some income to their lives. As you note there is no panic to get to work the day the market crashes. Plus it doesn't take much additional income to move the needle back towards success. If your FIRE budget is $40K/yr and you earn $10K/yr for a few years that will have a huge impact. You don't need to land a $200K/yr gig.

BlueMR2

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #185 on: January 15, 2018, 05:41:12 PM »
I believe in my own ability to find work.  I have found jobs before, both with and without experience, and I'm confident I could do it again if necessary. 

<snip>

It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

I'm quite familiar with that attitude.  That's the one I had when I was younger.  And indeed that's how it was when I was in my 20's.  Then all of a sudden I'm older and being good and reliable isn't as important as being young.  Then I've watched my wife struggle even more than I did.  It's brutal out there if you're over 30 years old.  All they'll hire is kids out of school these days.  Forget finding a job if you've got any experience!

Villanelle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #186 on: January 15, 2018, 05:45:28 PM »
It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

I too am surprised at the pessimism and skepticism about the ability to find income producing work, especially when it doesnít take much to move the needle.  A couple who started at a 4% WR of $1.5M only need to earn an inflation-adjusted $15,000 per year to move their withdraw rate temporarily to very safe 3%. 

$15-$20K would not be so difficult for a couple in decent health to earn if they are each willing to work more than one part time job.  There are plenty of feasible ideas in this thread.

The advantage that the early retiree has is flexibility.  Why work at Wal-mart when you can earn enough by combining 2 shifts per week at the cash register of the local golf pro shop, reselling some items on Amazon, and a bit of Uber?

Rather than working part-time for many years, the early retiree can go back to work full-time for a few years to alleviate financial concerns.  Itís not easy to find a job when youíve been retired for 10-years, but again flexibility is the key.   If you donít need to find a job immediately but rather need to move into a job within 2 years, then you can start by doing a little volunteer work at a several places and networking with the people that you meet.   A lot of jobs are fulfilled through recommendations, so the retiree would need to actively put themselves out there so they can be recommended.

To me, the safety net is that any and all of those things are options.  If every other unemployed person is doing Uber so it becomes difficult to get many rides booked, I go to the pro shop.  If they aren't hiring, I go to the Walmart. And maybe I also substitute teach as I can fit that in around my pro shop or Walmart or Macy's shifts.  And/or maybe I ask a couple elderly people on my street if they want me to mow their lawn or pick up grocieries for them once a week or drive them to doctor's appointments, all for $10-20 per job.  I can and would do any of those things (and many more) part time for 6-18 months without being miserable.  So it's the idea that there are so many possibilities that make me so optimistic I can find *something* to bring in $5-15,000 in a year. 

People are correct that any specific job may be very hard to land in retirement, in an awful economy.  But any job at all?  And with a cushion of many months, if necessary?  No problem. 

I'm usually a pessimist and a worrier, but this is one thing I worry about not at all. 

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #187 on: January 15, 2018, 06:12:43 PM »
I believe in my own ability to find work.  I have found jobs before, both with and without experience, and I'm confident I could do it again if necessary. 

<snip>

It baffles me that in a forum so full of optimists, we still hear so many people complaining about their fear of the future.

I'm quite familiar with that attitude.  That's the one I had when I was younger.  And indeed that's how it was when I was in my 20's.  Then all of a sudden I'm older and being good and reliable isn't as important as being young.  Then I've watched my wife struggle even more than I did.  It's brutal out there if you're over 30 years old.  All they'll hire is kids out of school these days.  Forget finding a job if you've got any experience!

I agree.
Itís incredibly difficult to apply to jobs through traditional means like job fairs or online postings if you are older and over qualified, but thatís generally a gruelling and unpleasant way to find work anyway, and doesnít usually lead to the best jobs.

In every industry Iíve worked in (and Iíve worked in several), jobs usually got posted if they were very entry level (and usually involving a lot of turnover), if they are obliged to list them like in some cases in government, if they failed to staff them through networking first, or if they require a very specific skill set so casting a wide net for candidates is helpful.

Most of the time though, Iíve seen talented people end up in good jobs through networking.

desk_jockey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #188 on: January 15, 2018, 08:45:58 PM »
You're aware that 3% is only "very safe" if you withdraw this from the very beginning until the end, right? Using 3% only in downturns is not enough in most cases. Maybe 2% would work, if you have the room in your budget.

Iím familiar with the numbers so disagree with your point in the quote.   When I play with cFIREsim Iím getting 80% to 90% success rates for a 40 year retirement at 4% WR before I factor in Social Security.  In most cases the straight-up 4% rule of thumb works just fine even with economic downturns. 
 
Going to 3% WR for a few years during downturns improves the success rate.  I agree that earning more and cutting spending to result in a 2% WR for a few years improves the success rate further, after some time of a 3% or 2% WR the model begins to exceed 95% and then additional work has less significance for 40-year success (other threads address the black swans and global war scenarios that show there is no 100%). 

Withdrawing at 2% for a while will improve the likelihood that you can spend more later, but then again so will OMY.  My point was simply that it doesnít take much income for most of us to improve both our odds and our personal comfort level.   

oldtoyota

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #189 on: January 15, 2018, 09:07:58 PM »
With out relatively low projected FIRE budget ($40-45k/yr), even a $15/hr job at Trader Joes could make a huge impact to the success likelihood.

2 People working 3X a week = $37,440 a year.

If a bad sequence of returns hit, I would do something like that in a heartbeat. Not to mention you would then get employer subsidized health insurance and other perks (free food).

I would consider this, too. I see some older folks working at Trader Joe's. It would be physically demanding yet perhaps fun for a bit. Costco treats its employees well, I hear. Might be another option.

You can also work your network to find projects in your previous field. I started a consulting business and then changed its focus. What I made last year part-time (and working when/if I want) is way more than I would make at a Trader Joe's type of job.


Paul der Krake

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #190 on: January 15, 2018, 10:10:10 PM »
I'm quite familiar with that attitude.  That's the one I had when I was younger.  And indeed that's how it was when I was in my 20's.  Then all of a sudden I'm older and being good and reliable isn't as important as being young.  Then I've watched my wife struggle even more than I did.  It's brutal out there if you're over 30 years old.  All they'll hire is kids out of school these days.  Forget finding a job if you've got any experience!
The funny thing with the labor market (at least the small corner that I know) is that everybody thinks they have it hard.

- Experienced people complaining that companies only hire fresh graduates
- Fresh graduates complaining about experience requirements
- Minorities complaining about racist/sexist hiring
- Majorities complaining about diversity hiring
- Americans complaining about H1Bs
- H1Bs who can't wait to become Americans

dresden

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #191 on: January 15, 2018, 10:27:17 PM »
This is what I have been thinking about, but not as much in a fire failure situation as a bridge to age 60 when I start getting my pension to make sure I don't fire failure.

Work has been a real struggle due to daily headaches and back tightness from an auto accident almost a year ago.  They are letting me cut back to part time but I am not sure how much they like the arrangement so I assume it won't last too long.

I am 51 with 9 years to go until I start getting my pension I can live off of, but until then I will work try to at least break even with wages to avoid pulling out too much.

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #192 on: January 16, 2018, 04:24:12 AM »
]hmmm...perhaps "introvert" was the wrong word. Disinterested in doing volunteer/work related stuff of the kind you mentioned and would rather play instead? Yeah that's better. Sad boring ball scratcher for short ;-).

But seriously, yes anyone regardless of their disposition can learn skills if they are interested in being pro active. However some of us FIREd people are interested in other pursuits that may not help them land a job if needed,, or feel theiy can easily get a job if ever needed, or that a job will never be needed.

To each their own, but I firmly believe that doing whatever you enjoy in whatever capacity is likely to help you find work if you end up wanting it. I believe that almost anything interesting can be monetized and all interesting activities lead to networking, whether you intend them to or not.

Sure, we all know people who worked themselves into the ground, retired in their senior years and coasted out their days literally sitting on the porch and watching the river flow by and drinking themselves to death. Theyíre burnt and spent. They worked soulless jobs for so long that theyíve got no energy or personal identity left. Those are the ball scratchers and they are truly sad.
I donít know you, but I canít fathom that you are like that if you are here posting.

Mustachians retire young, live life to the fullest, and have the energy to do cool shit they like to do. Most Mustachians will end up drastically more employable in more dynamic ways in retirement just due to doing more cool shit, even if itís just fucking around with chill hobbies.
Itís *how* to monetize and convert being interesting into paid work that trips a lot of people up, but mostly just because they donít realize how valuable their talents and skills are. A lot of people simply donít have any experience with being paid for cool shit they like to do anyway.

Granted, I donít know anything about you or what your ďplayĒ activities are in retirement, maybe they are somehow incredibly non-valuable and not monetizable in any way shape or form. Possibly, but I canít imagine a single interesting hobby that is entirely antisocial and of no interest to anyone.

Hell, even someone who sits at home alone all day long and literally only paints their nails will likely get so good at it that people will spontaneously start offering to pay them to paint their nails.

Lastly, itís great if you feel you will never have to look for work in retirement, I donít think Iíll have to either, but this entire thread is about what if you did have to.








desk_jockey

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #193 on: January 16, 2018, 06:55:03 AM »
Sure, we all know people who worked themselves into the ground, retired in their senior years and coasted out their days literally sitting on the porch and watching the river flow by and drinking themselves to death. Theyíre burnt and spent. They worked soulless jobs for so long that theyíve got no energy or personal identity left. Those are the ball scratchers and they are truly sad.
I donít know you, but I canít fathom that you are like that if you are here posting.

Malkynn, I think this ball scratching may be some self-depreciating humor.  From reading 1000+ posts over the past 4 years, Iíd say Spartana is anything but sad, old and boring. 

Spartana could find a job within a month just reaching out to people on this forum but quite determined to complete life without anything remotely resembling work ever again.   Participating in a thread about the possibility of returning to work is, as best I can tell, just a form of personal entertainment. 

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #194 on: January 16, 2018, 09:53:45 AM »
Sure, we all know people who worked themselves into the ground, retired in their senior years and coasted out their days literally sitting on the porch and watching the river flow by and drinking themselves to death. Theyíre burnt and spent. They worked soulless jobs for so long that theyíve got no energy or personal identity left. Those are the ball scratchers and they are truly sad.
I donít know you, but I canít fathom that you are like that if you are here posting.

Malkynn, I think this ball scratching may be some self-depreciating humor.  From reading 1000+ posts over the past 4 years, Iíd say Spartana is anything but sad, old and boring. 

Spartana could find a job within a month just reaching out to people on this forum but quite determined to complete life without anything remotely resembling work ever again.   Participating in a thread about the possibility of returning to work is, as best I can tell, just a form of personal entertainment.

I was the one who started the ďball scratchingĒ comment, so I was clarifying what I meant. And I donít think for a second that Spartana is sad or boring. I have yet to come across anyone on this forum who seems sad and boring as far as I define it.

Spartana and I have gradually clarified enough to show that weíre both really saying the same thing, which is that regardless of what any of us choose to do, that it wouldnít be hard to find work if we needed to.

Some of us will do things that more closely resemble work, some of us will do things that more closely resemble leisure, but either way, weíll be in a prime position to mobilize effectively if the need for income arises.

lexde

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #195 on: January 16, 2018, 05:03:48 PM »
Consulting in whatever field you’re in. If you happen to be an attorney, then hanging a shingle is a good fallback after leaving a firm.

wordnerd

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #196 on: January 16, 2018, 05:45:56 PM »
I'm quite familiar with that attitude.  That's the one I had when I was younger.  And indeed that's how it was when I was in my 20's.  Then all of a sudden I'm older and being good and reliable isn't as important as being young.  Then I've watched my wife struggle even more than I did.  It's brutal out there if you're over 30 years old.  All they'll hire is kids out of school these days.  Forget finding a job if you've got any experience!

I think age discrimination is a very real phenomenon, especially if you're looking to jump back into the same level you left. But the levels of income needed to stave off a FIRE failure, if you have low living expenses, should be very attainable based on the types of careers suggested in this thread.

My personal experience: I heard my dad complain about age discrimination for over a decade. He was in his 50s when I was growing. When he was 55ish, he quit his high-paying gig and eventually lost a ton of money in a failed business. He didn't have a college degree, couldn't get back into the job market where he left, and blamed age discrimination (which I think was real). Eventually, however, he found a lot of ways to make money. He sold cars. He finished his degree and became a substitute teacher and eventually a full-time English teacher. When he got laid off from that, he started volunteering at an adult education center. Eventually, they hired him to run the program full time (he was almost 70 at that point). He left that job eventually, and now makes over $30K a year tutoring at age 75.

I realize this is all anecdotal, but the lessons I've drawn from the past 20 years of his life are: 1) age discrimination exists, but 2) there are a ton of ways to make money and reinvent yourself if you're creative. FIREes have the added benefit of tons of time to retool themselves through education, networking, and volunteering before they're out of money.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 05:48:47 PM by wordnerd »

Malkynn

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #197 on: January 16, 2018, 09:04:48 PM »
Yeah I think we are basicly on.the same page and in agreement. My only issue was your comment above: "I canít fathom the type of boring sad person who retires early just to do absolutely nothing of value and learn no useful skill and associates with no one of any interest or consequence for 10-20 years.". Many of us ERees have self-enrichment goals, challenges, interests, and activities that may have no real value or interest to anyone but ourselves and may be unlikely to lead to any future job opportunities.  That doesn't mean we aren't doing helpful things, or aren't  busy and involved, just that the personal goals and activies we do aren't always useful,,valued or even wanted by others.

Agree to disagree.
I think I see things as vastly more monetizable, which is where what Iím saying is getting coloured in a way that is...interesting to me.
Iím not saying that choosing self-enrichment doesnít have value, Iím saying I think it has *more* value than you think it does in terms of helping job prospects. Even if itís *just* in terms of meeting people. In fact, meeting people who could choose to pay you or know someone who could choose to pay you is the biggest factor in employability. And chances are that focusing solely on self-enriching activities will make you much cooler, and  also probably make you meet more cool people who will think you are awesome, which will drastically increase your chances of employment if needed.

I think just being an interesting member of a forum like this would be enough to get someone a job if they needed one.

I stick by what i said that you quoted. I truly cannot fathom anyone who manages to retire early  spending 10-20 years doing nothing of value and meeting no one of consequence. That would be an incredibly sad retirement. Iím am absolutely NOT referring to ERs who choose to focus on self-enrichment, that has huge value. Thatís the opposite of the sad and depressing and meaningless life  Iím referring to.

Whether or not simply living your best life makes you employable/monetizable...well, as I said, Iíll agree to disagree.

Livingthedream55

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #198 on: January 17, 2018, 09:19:26 AM »
If it were truly a depression era like really, really bad time I would probably sell stuff at yard sales/eBay plus would  rent out my house and double up with a family member and pay them a reasonable rent

or

get a roommate (or two) -  I have a paid for 3 BR house in a suburb of a pretty HCOL area - people will still need a place to live

or

nanny/babysit for the people who have jobs

But (for me) I have built in so many redundancies, margins for error, plus I have good old fashioned common sense so could problem solve whatever crisis presented itself.

 



Villanelle

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Re: Jobs you can realistically get in a FIRE failure situation
« Reply #199 on: January 17, 2018, 05:36:42 PM »
If it were truly a depression era like really, really bad time I would probably sell stuff at yard sales/eBay plus would  rent out my house and double up with a family member and pay them a reasonable rent

or

get a roommate (or two) -  I have a paid for 3 BR house in a suburb of a pretty HCOL area - people will still need a place to live

or

nanny/babysit for the people who have jobs

But (for me) I have built in so many redundancies, margins for error, plus I have good old fashioned common sense so could problem solve whatever crisis presented itself.

I don't know why I've never really considered a roommate as an additional fail safe.  Thanks!!  As an extreme introvert (and one who likes to not wear pants around the house!), I would semi-hate the idea of living with a roommate, but sucking it up for a year wouldn't be too awful if the shit was really hitting the fan, especially because presumably I'd have the time and finances to be somewhat picky or maybe even find a friend or at least a friend of a friend..  Also, this brings to mind taking in exchange students (some programs pay, others don't) and/or hosting a foreign college student for a school year.  I don't ever see us living in a house with less than 2 baths (and probably three bed, but certainly 2), so it would be very doable.