Job opportunity I'm unsure about. What would you do?

[GuitarStv]

I have a job opportunity that fell into my lap and I'm not sure if it should be pursued or not.

It's interesting work, it pays 50 - 80% more than what I've been doing, it is for a good company that treats it's employees pretty well.  I'd be working as a contractor on a two year term at first, but it's common at this company to keep contractors on for many years.  I know several of the people at this company who have been contractors there for 7+ years, so would probably have some friendly faces to hang out with right off the bat.

The big BUT is that it's about a three and a half (if there's a storm in the winter probably closer to five) hour drive away from where I live.  I would have to rent a place nearby and live there during the week.  Because of this they've told me:
- The company will give me a per-diem every day that I'm down there that should cover the cost of rent.
- The company will let me work four 10 hr days and then take a three days off . . . so I could come home every weekend.
- After the first year there's also the possibility of working from home a couple times a week.

Pros:
- Good salary, good employer.
- After four years at this place I can comfortably say goodbye to working forever.  (My wife is undecided if she wants to work another year or two after that.)
- Sounds like fun/interesting work.
- Tax advantages (can probably claim travel expenses for example).

Cons:
- This is a lot of extra work for my wife (she'll have to look after our son while I'm away).
- Will be away from my son for much of his young life.
- Lots of driving to go home and come back to site.
- Potential crushing loneliness.
- No benefits, no bonus.


What would you do?

[MayDay]

We've talked about this scenario but never actually been faced with it.

Our conclusion is we'd only do it if there could be some 4 day weeks and some work from home weeks.

Neither of us would want to do it every week long term.

Both of us would be willing to do it every week for 3-9 months.

I'd tell them you'll accept if you can work from home immediately or can be 2/3 time.

[CheapScholar]

Is moving closer to the new employer a possibility?

[tooqk4u22]

Nope - wouldn't be worth being away from DW and kids that long. 

Also, if you are working 4 10-hour days you still will have a full day (3.5-5 hrs each way) for commute that you will not be compensated for so really working 5 -10 hour days which really means your pre-tax pay is only 20% to 58% higher effectively (assuming 40 hours current vs. 50 hours proposed) and not 50% to 80% more as indicated.  That's also not factoring in the benefits and bonus that you won't be getting (I am assume you get these now BC you mentioned it).

But everybody has different motivations.

[GuitarStv]

We've talked about this scenario but never actually been faced with it.

Our conclusion is we'd only do it if there could be some 4 day weeks and some work from home weeks.

Neither of us would want to do it every week long term.

Both of us would be willing to do it every week for 3-9 months.

I'd tell them you'll accept if you can work from home immediately or can be 2/3 time.

Working from home immediately is definitely off the table (and that makes sense to me . . . they don't know me well enough to trust me at this point).

Is moving closer to the new employer a possibility?

Not really.  Any distance I get closer to this job would be distance further that my wife would need to travel to get to her work.

[Slow&Steady]

With a SO and a kid at home that are not willing/able to move with me ... I would write a very nice response to the effect of "Thank you for thinking of me and making such a generous offer but at this time the opportunity does not align with my personal goals."

There is 0 chance that I would choose to be away from my SO and kid 4-5 days a week for the next 4 years!

Now if the pay is that much better would it replace your wife's salary while she found a new job in the new location.  Could they move with you?

[GuitarStv]

Nope - wouldn't be worth being away from DW and kids that long. 

Also, if you are working 4 10-hour days you still will have a full day (3.5-5 hrs each way) for commute that you will not be compensated for so really working 5 -10 hour days which really means your pre-tax pay is only 20% to 58% higher effectively (assuming 40 hours current vs. 50 hours proposed) and not 50% to 80% more as indicated.  That's also not factoring in the benefits and bonus that you won't be getting (I am assume you get these now BC you mentioned it).

But everybody has different motivations.

The figure I gave is percentage higher after factoring in the bonus and benefits.

5 hrs each way would be along the lines of a winter snowstorm worst case scenario.  I think the average travel time would be closer to 3.5 hrs (which is still a ton of travel).


I seem to have failed to mention it  . . . but I am kinda miserable at my current job.

[GuitarStv]

Now if the pay is that much better would it replace your wife's salary while she found a new job in the new location.  Could they move with you?

Yes.  The only employer likely to hire my wife would be the one that hired me though, and I don't know how many positions they have available.  Also, we currently have health/dental/optometrist benefits through my wife's employer.  If she also became a contractor we would be out of pocket for those expenses.

We also really like where we currently live and think that we want to retire here.  Our house is paid off, the schools are good, we make a several grand each year from the solar panels on our roof, and there are many wonderful amenities that we like.  The way that the housing market in Toronto has been for the past fifteen years, if we sell now we may not be able to buy in the same area again.

[skip207]

DO IT!!

They are paying for your digs plus you are looking at 50-80% uplift.  You would be crazy not too.
Yeah you will be away a fair bit to start with  but get your head down and work your way into a good position where they value you and that 2 days working from home might turn into 3 or even 4...

These opportunities don't come up often.  You have to move up the ladder as much as you can in your early years to get the benefits later in life.

I was a contractor for around 4 years, it was hard work but the money was very, very good (even paying for my own digs) and after 4 years I had gained enough XP to start my own company and had the money to bank roll it too.

[big_slacker]

A friend of mine made an attempt at this. It almost ended his marriage.

Personally I'd say no given the family stress I ended up with when I was doing only a 25-30% travel job let alone over 50% constant. Enjoy your wife and young son, a better financial situation will not give you back those years.

[tooqk4u22]

The figure I gave is percentage higher after factoring in the bonus and benefits.

Ok, then it shouldn't be listed as a con because it is already factored in. 

Also, is the 50-80% before or after tax - if it puts you in higher tax brackets then it might not be as much.  Sure you might be able to deduct mileage but that probably won't do too much in offsetting it. Also, you may have taxes to pay other than income tax that would normally be paid for in part by the employer - in USA a self employed person has to pay both sides of SSI/Medicare (total of 16% that is right of the top)....Canada's CPP comes to mind where this might happen.  Just be sure you have all the tax/costs/net truly figured out.

I seem to have failed to mention it  . . . but I am kinda miserable at my current job.

That is a different factor to think about but tough to weigh against the alternatives.....more money doesn't make you happier.  Maybe you are the sort that is fine being away from home/DW/kid for a lot, which is ok, but if DW is stressed/overburdened while you are gone that will certainly have ripple effects.

[lbmustache]

As a different perspective, my dad did something similar when I was young. Traveled a lot for work (but earned infinitely more money for it), so wasn't there 100% of the time while I was growing up. Mom managed (although she was a SAHM) fine. I turned out fine and we still did lots of things together as a family (vacations, trips, etc.). We just weren't necessarily having dinner together every night and dad wasn't there to pick me up from school. He was able to retire at 51 because of those choices and was able to provide a substantially "easier" lifestyle for us (like paying for all of my college education).

4 years = saying goodbye to work forever? I'd take it.

[MrsDinero]

What does your wife think?  how does she feel being the primary parent while you are working?  What if you take the job and 3 months in your wife says she can't handle it on her own.  Would you be able to go back to your old job?  Is there a backup plan?

I know some people (military) who are not stationed together and they make it work.  The difference with them is they only see each other once a month or so.  Most were married for many years before their work separation.

I would say if you have a good strong marriage then there is no reason this cannot work, but it certainly isn't for everyone.

[atrex]

1) This probably isn't the first nice offer that you will get (or could earn), assuming this is based on professional progress and merit.
2) If you and family leave, you can rent the house and then there's no issue with being able to buy back in later.
3) What increase in salary in your current city would it take to make this a no brainer to stay there?  Can you negotiate a raise in your current job in part based on this offer and it's reflection on your market value?

[Dave1442397]

I would take the job.

You're only gone four days a week, and maybe fewer once you get settled in. If you stayed at your current job, how many hours would you see your son in those four days? Maybe three or four hours a night? Yes, it's a bit more work for your wife, but it's not forever, and will improve your financial picture.

[GuitarStv]

1) This probably isn't the first nice offer that you will get (or could earn), assuming this is based on professional progress and merit.

I've been looking since October and haven't seen anything close.  Most of the jobs that I've been finding are a longer commute from our house (30 - 60 minute drive each way), and they don't pay as well.

2) If you and family leave, you can rent the house and then there's no issue with being able to buy back in later.

I don't know if my wife would be willing to give up her stable job for me to chase down this contract one.

3) What increase in salary in your current city would it take to make this a no brainer to stay there?  Can you negotiate a raise in your current job in part based on this offer and it's reflection on your market value?

I was laid off on a Wednesday in October kinda out of the blue.  The higher ups in the company did the layoffs without consulting the team managers though, so I ended up being re-hired in December when it turned out that they were desperately short-staffed (I hadn't found a new job in that period).  I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

[Guesl982374]

- This is a lot of extra work for my wife (she'll have to look after our son while I'm away).
- Will be away from my son for much of his young life.

I would (and have) passed because of these two points.

I was laid off on a Wednesday in October kinda out of the blue.  The higher ups in the company did the layoffs without consulting the team managers though, so I ended up being re-hired in December when it turned out that they were desperately short-staffed (I hadn't found a new job in that period).  I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Does it make sense to take this job given you are about to be out of work but keep looking? Does it hurt you if you only do this for 3-6 months and then take a job back in your home market? From a resume standpoint i can't imagine it would hurt you at all (easily explain that you thought you could be away from family but ended up you couldn't), especially given the short career length remaining, however not sure how tight knit the industry is and if you'd end up with a bad reputation.

[Carless]

Sounds like a tough decision, but why not give it a trial run?  It sounds like you're going to get laid off again and probably have a while with no work, wouldn't it be better to just start work at the new place and see how things are going six months later?  If you hate it, just quit and you'll be back where you started but richer.  It may open new opportunities and contacts to you as well.

[J_Stache]

With the 50%-80% bump, would your wife be interested in early retirement (or working from home from a new location)?  You could move the family closer to the new gig and rent out your current house. 

[tooqk4u22]

I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Kind of an important detail to leave out....in this case I would take it at least minimally on a temporary basis while looking for something else near home.   

[okits]

Make a pact with your wife that you'll try it for one year.  With stat holidays and the occasional vacation day (or unpaid day) you could maybe pull off a four-day weekend every three weeks or so (so only away two nights).  If the load is too much for your wife hire some help.  Agree that you're willing to quit if the impact on your family is too much.

Once you're able to work from home a bit (if things go well, try asking for one day a week after six months) life may get a lot more manageable.  If you only stick it out a year or two you're still that much farther ahead.  Since you're about to be laid off and have turned up nothing nearly as good that's local, I would seriously give this a try.

The nights you are away: cook from scratch (make some freezer meals you can leave at home for how and DS?), do a mega workout every day, long Skype sessions with your family, get a glorious eight-hour stretch of sleep every night.  Certainly see if you can make a local friend or two, but 10 hours of work + 8 hours of sleep already eats up 18 hours a day.  (Would the company let you work 8-12-12-8, so the days you're doing the 3.5 hour drive you're only working eight hours?)

(Sorry you went through a lay off and are about to get a rerun.  That's no fun.)

[Last Night]

I have a job opportunity that fell into my lap and I'm not sure if it should be pursued or not.

It's interesting work, it pays 50 - 80% more than what I've been doing, it is for a good company that treats it's employees pretty well.  I'd be working as a contractor on a two year term at first, but it's common at this company to keep contractors on for many years.  I know several of the people at this company who have been contractors there for 7+ years, so would probably have some friendly faces to hang out with right off the bat.

The big BUT is that it's about a three and a half (if there's a storm in the winter probably closer to five) hour drive away from where I live.  I would have to rent a place nearby and live there during the week.  Because of this they've told me:
- The company will give me a per-diem every day that I'm down there that should cover the cost of rent.
- The company will let me work four 10 hr days and then take a three days off . . . so I could come home every weekend.
- After the first year there's also the possibility of working from home a couple times a week.

Pros:
- Good salary, good employer.
- After four years at this place I can comfortably say goodbye to working forever.  (My wife is undecided if she wants to work another year or two after that.)
- Sounds like fun/interesting work.
- Tax advantages (can probably claim travel expenses for example).

Cons:
- This is a lot of extra work for my wife (she'll have to look after our son while I'm away).
- Will be away from my son for much of his young life.
- Lots of driving to go home and come back to site.
- Potential crushing loneliness.
- No benefits, no bonus.


What would you do?

OP, is this in Buffalo on the IT side of things?  Based on your location and commute and your 50%-80% increase swing (assuming that's due to FX) I'd have to guess it's Toronto - Buffalo commute?

Not worth it imo.

I am in Toronto as well, there are a ton of high paying jobs, I know you mentioned that you've been looking since October, but that's hardly a long time and it really depends on how hard you've actually looked.

50% increase (30% incremental after tax) is not worth it to uproot your life, miss out on your son's growing up, and straining your marriage. It would be  worth doing if you could move as a family, as is, no chance.

[Last Night]

I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Kind of an important detail to leave out....in this case I would take it at least minimally on a temporary basis while looking for something else near home.

lol well this changes everything, I didn't notice this comment. 

poor context

[Lucky Girl]

I agree that given the impending layoff, you should definitely take the job.  With the extra money put some to savings but also, as another poster said, hire a bit of help for your wife.  Maybe a bit more convenience food, and a babysitter to give her a night off a week when you are gone. 

However, this all changes if you are FI (or close).  The closer you are to that level of freedom, the more flexibility you have, obviously.  How close are you?

[GuitarStv]

However, this all changes if you are FI (or close).  The closer you are to that level of freedom, the more flexibility you have, obviously.  How close are you?

If I stay at around my current salary we've got about 5-6 years more (using my wife's numbers, which are more conservative than mine).  Commutes to most of the jobs I've seen advertised will be at least 40 minutes each way, so we'll be very crunched for time.

The scenario my wife proposed as 'ideal' is that I do this new job for 3 years then retire.  I become house-husband and make all the meals, do all the cleaning, renovate our two bathrooms and kitchen, while my wife works for another year or two after that.

Either one of these scenarios we end up with more than enough money in the bank to cover living expenses indefinitely, our fully paid off house (which has appreciated a sizable chunk so far, so we should be able to sell for an awful lot in a worst case scenario), and enough money to cover our son's tuition.

[RobFIRE]

If the context were just, basically, current job fine and new job is more money, I'd probably consider it a marginal offer: more money so can stop working earlier, but risk of more stress on wife and reduced family time in the short term.

However, in the context of unhappy at current job, likely to shortly have no job, and all candidate local jobs are 40+ minutes each way, new employer good and will cover expenses, I would consider this as a good offer. A couple of things I would do: be clear to myself and partner that it is undertaken on a trial basis, if it doesn't work out a job isn't worth excessive stress on the family, I would quite if that happened. I would definitely push for the 4 long days working option to provide long weekends at least every other weekend. With the extra money I would consider either partner having more paid home help e.g. with household chores, after school child care for child on some days etc., or, if applicable, allow partner to reduce working hours from full time to say 4 days a week, or finishing day earlier to match school hours. On the last point of paid help or partner working reduced hours, even a little bit might be a big benefit, and the cost only a fraction of your extra income.

I currently travel to client site 2 or 3 days every week for my job and it's 5 hours by train each way, with all expenses paid. I don't find it a problem, nor does my partner, though a key difference is we don't have a family. By comparison, a friend of mine who's a lawyer typically works 6 days a week, including 10 to 12 hour days Monday-Friday, which I thought sounded like hell on earth even though he's very well paid, but he remarked how bad my job sounds because I have to travel each week. So I suppose everybody has different opinions...

[Iplawyer]

Sometimes the advantages of a job opportunity outweigh other costs.  What would it hurt to try it for a few months since you feel like you are going to be laid off.  I would do a few things to make it easier such as get paid help for house cleaning and lawn work so that when you are home you are not worried about that.  Take care of things you can each night - like paying bills and such so that the time you have at home is not spent on that.  Communicate.  And take care of your child when you are home to give your wife a break.  You might find it works out just fine.

[mm1970]

Cons:
- This is a lot of extra work for my wife (she'll have to look after our son while I'm away).
- Will be away from my son for much of his young life.
- Lots of driving to go home and come back to site.
- Potential crushing loneliness.
- No benefits, no bonus.

I wouldn't do it.  How old is  your son?  Many years ago my company shut down my group and offered me a position on the opposite side of the country.  Not quite the same thing, but we briefly considered making the move.  My husband made a long list of things like:

"I'm not willing to be a single parent for longer than X"
"I'm not willing to be away from you and the kid for longer than Y"
"I'm not..."

I said: "I'm not doing it, not worth it."

The work, the money, yeah it's tempting.  I, for one, would hate to be doing all the work while my husband is gone 4 days every week.
I also would miss my kids terribly

(*That said, military people do worse than this.)

I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Nevermind, this changes things a bunch.  I'd give it a try in this case.

[arebelspy]

I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Did you end up pursuing the new job?

If not, is this still the expectation?

The scenario my wife proposed as 'ideal' is that I do this new job for 3 years then retire.  I become house-husband and make all the meals, do all the cleaning, renovate our two bathrooms and kitchen, while my wife works for another year or two after that.

If that's ideal for her (e.g. she's okay with the drawbacks of more childcare while you're gone at the new job, etc.), it sounds like a pretty decent plan to me.  Speeds up FIRE time by a year or two.

Any updates/developments in the last few weeks?

[GuitarStv]

I expect to be laid off again by the end of this month, this time permanently.

Did you end up pursuing the new job?

Yep, I did.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

If not, is this still the expectation?

No, not expectation.  It's reality as of yesterday.

The scenario my wife proposed as 'ideal' is that I do this new job for 3 years then retire.  I become house-husband and make all the meals, do all the cleaning, renovate our two bathrooms and kitchen, while my wife works for another year or two after that.

If that's ideal for her (e.g. she's okay with the drawbacks of more childcare while you're gone at the new job, etc.), it sounds like a pretty decent plan to me.  Speeds up FIRE time by a year or two.

Any updates/developments in the last few weeks?
[/quote]

I've got several interviews scheduled, but none of them seem to be as good an opportunity as this one.

[iturner8]

Have you discussed your wife's employment opportunity with your new employer?  Often a 2-for-1 deal is attractive and might mean they can retain you for a longer period of time.  It could be a fun, lucrative adventure if your family can move there with you, have housing paid for, rent your Toronto home, ride the wave together for 3 years and retire back to your preferred neighborhood!

[GuitarStv]

Have you discussed your wife's employment opportunity with your new employer?  Often a 2-for-1 deal is attractive and might mean they can retain you for a longer period of time.  It could be a fun, lucrative adventure if your family can move there with you, have housing paid for, rent your Toronto home, ride the wave together for 3 years and retire back to your preferred neighborhood!

I talked it over with her, my wife wouldn't go for it.  She's got a stable (so far) job, is happy with her work and doesn't really want to move.  One parent being a contractor who can be fired at any time  . . . little risk.  Both parents doing it?  A little too risky.

[Goldielocks]

Congrats.   I want to chime in and say that this is a better position that travelling a lot for work.  When you travel for work a lot, you leave on Sunday afternoon, and are home very late on Friday night, typically 3 weeks out of the month, and only want to sleep and relax with family on Saturday.

Why better?  You have a stable base to live at during the week, can make your own food, and maybe have some personal activities or clubs. You are more refreshed on your time at home. Your wife may figure out a way to join you once per month (with kids).  You can rent a larger place during summers and be together.

There a chance of work from home for one week a month, in future, too.   Most people would get that (lose the per diem but may be worth it).

[arebelspy]

If not, is this still the expectation?

No, not expectation.  It's reality as of yesterday.

Sorry to hear that!

Good luck on the job apps/interviews. :)