Author Topic: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)  (Read 3859 times)

deek

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I'll try to keep this short - I want to air out some frustration, but also see if anyone has any ideas that I should bring up to leadership when I talk to them Tuesday about this.

I've been working at an e-commerce company for 2+ years doing web content, social media (something I started the strategy for), pricing maintenance, etc etc. We are a dealer of outdoor living products and have had record numbers the last few months. My SO lives 1.75 hours away from my office. For the last year, we have been commuting to see each other.

My company has 1 person that works remotely and has the same job title as I do. He originally worked out of the office until his wife got a job in the town my SO lives in.. 1.75 hrs away. 4 or 5 months ago, I brought up to leadership that we needed to start having conversations about the possibility of working from home so I can live close to my SO who is in public education as an instructional coach. I felt like they were dragging their feet as I told my supervisor multiple times that I wanted to discuss things and start getting closer to having an answer because I didn't renew my lease that ends next month. I had my monthly 1:1 yesterday with my supervisor who told me he spoke with leadership and they decided they won't make it possible for me to work from home long term right now.

We've all been working from home the last 2.5 months and haven't lost any production, and in some ways, have been even more efficient. My ENTIRE job can be done from home. When I interviewed, they talked about the fact that they can make arrangements for life changes and stuff like that. How can they justify just say no WITHOUT even having a conversation with me about it. They had my manager tell me no - so you better believe I immediately scheduled a call with them.

I have had a big part in growing our social media presence as well as adding several brands to our offering which has accounted for a couple million $ in sales. I never indicated that I wouldn't come into the office. I would be open to coming to the office maybe even once every 2 weeks to start. I DON'T GET IT.
I don't know if anything I can say will change their mind, but how can you not be accommodating to someone who WANTS to work for you and has been a big part of the company growth.. while you're letting someone else work from home?? So angry....

One thing I want to add - It scares the hell out of me to look for anything else after having a job I enjoy so much. The LAST thing I want to do is show up to a place I freaking hate after awhile, knowing I had a job I enjoyed and had a path in. It's 2020, but most companies are still stuck in 1990. I'm not one to sit in an office all day, but when you find an "office" you don't dread coming to and don't watch the clock every day, it makes you not want to go anywhere else.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 07:10:42 AM by deek »

julia

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2020, 06:56:46 AM »
I can relate with your situation. My partner is a product designer and before the pandemic was even on the radar, he asked his boss if he could work from home half the week. Answer was no. The pandemic came so people HAD to work from home for 2 months. It was proven that he can do his job perfectly well from home but the answer was still no. Old mindsets are hard to change.

deek

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2020, 06:57:55 AM »
I can relate with your situation. My partner is a product designer and before the pandemic was even on the radar, he asked his boss if he could work from home half the week. Answer was no. The pandemic came so people HAD to work from home for 2 months. It was proven that he can do his job perfectly well from home but the answer was still no. Old mindsets are hard to change.

The thing is, these are young people in leadership and always talk about being a progressive/flexible workplace. The president is mid-30s. My department head is 30.

foghorn

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2020, 07:16:57 AM »
How do you feel about playing the "discrimination" card?  By this I mean that they allow a co-worker who has the same title and does the same work to WFH.  But you cannot?  "Why am I being discriminated against"?

Making them justify this discrepancy could be helpful to your cause.

A bit of a gutsy move - but might work.

 

deek

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2020, 07:24:53 AM »
How do you feel about playing the "discrimination" card?  By this I mean that they allow a co-worker who has the same title and does the same work to WFH.  But you cannot?  "Why am I being discriminated against"?

Making them justify this discrepancy could be helpful to your cause.

A bit of a gutsy move - but might work.

 

Would that burn relationships though? And I feel like their take on discrimination might result in a bad reaction.

rebel_quietude

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2020, 07:30:27 AM »
Verbiage change - try "double standard." Less immediate vitriol than discrimination, still gets the point across.

Also has the benefit of being true.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 02:22:22 PM by rebel_quietude »

foghorn

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2020, 07:32:31 AM »
How do you feel about playing the "discrimination" card?  By this I mean that they allow a co-worker who has the same title and does the same work to WFH.  But you cannot?  "Why am I being discriminated against"?

Making them justify this discrepancy could be helpful to your cause.

A bit of a gutsy move - but might work.

 

Would that burn relationships though? And I feel like their take on discrimination might result in a bad reaction.

No doubt that it could be problematic.  You know your audience (management) better than we do.  It simply may be helpful to get them to explain why some workers get the WFH advantage and you do not.  Maybe start the conversation with "Can you help me understand why..."

obstinate

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2020, 07:50:49 AM »
Having different policies for different workers isn't illegal anyway unless there is a racist component. I would definitely not use the word discrimination for this situation unless that applies.

Also please note that an adult saying, "but he got to do X, why can't I?" is possibly the least flattering look of all time. You will not ingratiate yourself to your bosses by making this kind of statement. If there is a good reason behind the difference, then you will look like an ass, and they probably still won't tell you. Even if there isn't a reason, it's very unlikely that observing the difference is going to get you what you want.

Here's what it comes down to. In all likelihood, your coworker probably said something like, "I'm moving to this place, I'd love to continue working with you remotely, but if not, I'm still going." The bosses decided they wanted to keep the coworker, so they made the arrangement. The coworker had power, and exercised that power. The power the coworker had was that they had something the boss wanted more than they wanted a local worker, and they had the willingness to leave if the boss didn't give in.

You might also have this power. But the only way to find out is to force the boss to make a choice. Unfortunately, if you try to flex this muscle and you find out you don't have as much power, you'll likely be out of a job. That's one of the hard things about unequal information negotiations.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2020, 07:59:34 AM by obstinate »

deek

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 08:08:12 AM »
Having different policies for different workers isn't illegal anyway unless there is a racist component. I would definitely not use the word discrimination for this situation unless that applies.

Also please note that an adult saying, "but he got to do X, why can't I?" is possibly the least flattering look of all time. You will not ingratiate yourself to your bosses by making this kind of statement. If there is a good reason behind the difference, then you will look like an ass, and they probably still won't tell you. Even if there isn't a reason, it's very unlikely that observing the difference is going to get you what you want.

Here's what it comes down to. In all likelihood, your coworker probably said something like, "I'm moving to this place, I'd love to continue working with you remotely, but if not, I'm still going." The bosses decided they wanted to keep the coworker, so they made the arrangement. The coworker had power, and exercised that power. The power the coworker had was that they had something the boss wanted more than they wanted a local worker, and they had the willingness to leave if the boss didn't give in.

You might also have this power. But the only way to find out is to force the boss to make a choice. Unfortunately, if you try to flex this muscle and you find out you don't have as much power, you'll likely be out of a job. That's one of the hard things about unequal information negotiations.

Since I'll still have to work for another probably 3 months at least from the office.. is it better to just tell them my side, and remind them how much I want to work with them, and do anything in my power to show them I'm all in for those 3 months?

RFAAOATB

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2020, 08:09:54 AM »
Time to start looking for a new job that will allow you to work remote.  Bringing up your new job offer to your boss as you hand in your resignation letter should get the point across strongly.  If the new job isn't a good fit for you, you could try reapplying to your old job or find something else.

Some people have to learn the hard way.

obstinate

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2020, 09:32:40 AM »
Having different policies for different workers isn't illegal anyway unless there is a racist component. I would definitely not use the word discrimination for this situation unless that applies.

Also please note that an adult saying, "but he got to do X, why can't I?" is possibly the least flattering look of all time. You will not ingratiate yourself to your bosses by making this kind of statement. If there is a good reason behind the difference, then you will look like an ass, and they probably still won't tell you. Even if there isn't a reason, it's very unlikely that observing the difference is going to get you what you want.

Here's what it comes down to. In all likelihood, your coworker probably said something like, "I'm moving to this place, I'd love to continue working with you remotely, but if not, I'm still going." The bosses decided they wanted to keep the coworker, so they made the arrangement. The coworker had power, and exercised that power. The power the coworker had was that they had something the boss wanted more than they wanted a local worker, and they had the willingness to leave if the boss didn't give in.

You might also have this power. But the only way to find out is to force the boss to make a choice. Unfortunately, if you try to flex this muscle and you find out you don't have as much power, you'll likely be out of a job. That's one of the hard things about unequal information negotiations.

Since I'll still have to work for another probably 3 months at least from the office.. is it better to just tell them my side, and remind them how much I want to work with them, and do anything in my power to show them I'm all in for those 3 months?
Showing them that they have the power in the situation is not going to make them more likely to let you work remote if they aren't already inclined to do so.

LibrarianFuzz

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2020, 09:38:07 AM »
Is it possible that this other person is being allowed to work from home because they have produced documentation of a "health condition" that requires them to have alternative work arrangements? (Stress, anxiety, depression, fibromyalgia, sensory processing disorder, whatever?) If there is an underlying health condition, that would not have been disclosed to you and it would just seem like flat out favoritism.

More to the point: if that is the case, could you do the same?

obstinate

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2020, 10:29:04 AM »
If there is an underlying health condition, that would not have been disclosed to you and it would just seem like flat out favoritism.
Whether there's a health condition or not is irrelevant. The boss doesn't have to disclose why they let one person work from home and the other not. They definitely can't if there's a health reason, but given the other person is living where their spouse works I think we can presume that this is not the cause.

Also, don't try to make up a health condition at this point. Your boss isn't an idiot. You've expressed a desire to work from home already and if it magically comes up that you also have a health condition that requires you to WFH your boss is going to be extremely skeptical. Also, it's deceit, which is considered bad under many moral systems.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2020, 12:27:13 PM »
That sucks.  It sounds like you have every reason to be angry/upset/sad/disappointed/etc.  Unfortunately, while are all real and given what you've said also reasonable reactions, they just get in the way here.  The company doesn't have any responsibility to let you have the same arrangement as the other person.  As other people have said, the other person could have issued an ultimatum that they acceded to, or they could have a medical reason, or something else.    @obstinate is absolutely correct about the "but he got to do X, why can't I?" being a really bad look. 

Unfortunately, the way most work environments are set up the employees can make requests for changes to the work environment, but usually the company can reject them for any reason without giving the employees an explanation.  You asked how they can reject this without talking to you - they just can.  Even if they had agreed to it in the past, they don't need to justify changing their answer.  Getting mad at the system is totally reasonable, but by itself doesn't fix the problem in any way.  While anger and frustration won't get you what you want, there are ways you might be able to get what you want.  You can convince the leadership why it makes sense to allow you to work from home.  It sounds as though that's what you're focused on.  Higher efficiency, keeping high performing employees happy, etc. are all good reasons but they might not convince the higher ups.  I've seen it happen far too often that someone has a great idea but it still gets shot down.  Frustrating, yes.  Unusual, no.   Honestly, I've seen these requests denied for all sorts of reasons - from being an opportunity to get rid of employees we wanted to see leave anyway to simply not wanting to deal with the paperwork and hassle of managing remote employees. 

Most times I encountered situations similar to this during my ~15 years as a manager and/or tech lead, it took a real belief on the company's side that they were going to lose an employee that they wanted to keep for them to make a change.  In many cases we decided the employee could be replaced more easily than the request could be accommodated.  I think the wrong decision was made many times, but that's what I saw.  Far too often higher-ups think of people as interchangeable.  My company's management believed that once someone gets to the point that they're looking elsewhere, the bond of trust had already been broken and whatever happened the employee would leave even if we accommodated the request.  Bottom line - even if it seems really obvious to you that the best answer all around is for them to let you work remotely, for whatever reason they aren't going to allow it unless they have a reason to change their minds - and once they've decided it's really hard to make them change the answer.  So the goal is to make it easier for them to change.  I think there are only 2 ways to do that.  One is to just convince them, but it sounds like you've already tried that and it didn't work.  The other way is to threaten to quit, but this has to be done very very carefully if you want to stay - and you have to really be ready to leave.  You have to quit in a way that makes them believe the bonds between you and the company are not too frayed to repair. 

My recommendation is to take two independent paths at the same time.  Meet with your management on Tuesday and in that meeting be a team player who wants to help the company - NOT a disgruntled employee who is asking for something special.  The attitude should be, "Living apart from my SO is significantly impacting me, but I love working for this company and I'm sure we can work together to find a way to resolve this that works for everyone and improves the company."  Don't come across as angry/disgruntled/frustrated/etc., no matter how justified those feelings are or what they say to shut you up.  Because they've already given you a "no", the odds that your meeting will result in an immediate change are almost zero.  They are probably coming in to the meeting having already discussed between themselves that they can't change the answer; they're probably dug in.  Of course if they change their answer - great!  And certainly make your case and answer questions, but the goal of this meeting *is not* to get them to give you a yes.  It's to make it clear to them that you are a good employee with a reasonable request, and it's also to better understand why they said no.  You're laying the groundwork for later and showing that you're someone they want to hold onto because you still care about the company.  At this meeting and in future interactions, really try to figure out how to make telework more palatable to them and keep being a great worker.  Don't grumble, don't make snide comments that Bob gets to work remotely, don't bring up what they said in the interview, just be someone they want to hold onto.  Make them want to keep you, and make them think you're not too disgruntled to hold onto. 

At the same time, start looking.  I know you don't want to, but you may surprise yourself and find something better.  If you do - great!  At that point (or when staying is simply untenable) make the request one more time, and make it good.  Document it.  Make sure you explain why it would benefit the company.  If you've laid the groundwork that you're committed to trying to find a solution, then you've made it easier for them to change their minds.  If they say no, you have a choice.  You can either accept that you're not going to get what you want and stay, or you can write a resignation letter.  It should be brief, but state something like, "Working at XYZ has truly been the highlight of my career.  My manager (name) and <my team name> have been wonderful to work with, and management is moving the company in the right direction.  I will be excited to see great things happen at XYZ in the coming months and years.  Unfortunately the commute to (nearby town) to see my SO/family/whatever has created too much of a burden and is impacting my ability to do my best work for XYZ.  My last day with XYZ will be <date 2 weeks in the future>."  If they value you and if you've made your case that you really can do your work remotely, they'll run to your cubicle to try to get you to stay.  However, and this is the most important part, you have to be ready for them to let you leave.  A resignation letter cannot be a bluff that you're not ok with them calling.  When you give the letter to your manager, make it clear that you're disappointed and that you love the company, but you understand their decision (even if you don't). 

The benefits of this approach are that if you don't find something better you won't have burned any bridges (if you leave) and they won't have you on a list of disgruntled employees looking to leave (if you don't).  You can continue to look for something else and if/when that happens then they will want to try to work to keep you.   

Finally, I usually saw people in this situation expect everything to be fixed overnight.  You already understand this because it has already been and is likely to still be a months-long process.  I realize that not renewing your lease complicates things, but right now tenants who can pay their lease are in a super powerful position.  I bet you could extend month-to-month or for a few months for a song right now. 

Good luck.  I really hope this works out for you. 

obstinate

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2020, 12:40:37 PM »
Nothing else to add beyond the extremely detailed and optimal analysis that fire 20/20 laid out. That is the path that is most likely to get you what you want. If you don't get it that way, it's not likely there's anything else you could have done. Honestly I didn't spot a single incorrect statement in the entire post. Truly excellent.

FIRE 20/20

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2020, 02:00:08 PM »
Thanks!  I had to deal with similar situations far too often during my career.  Hopefully some of what I wrote might apply to deek's employer/situation. 

Noodle

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2020, 05:46:11 PM »
Definitely agree with the advice to try to keep emotions out of it. There could be a million reasons you're getting a "no," from the ridiculous to the excellent. Maybe the other employee ISN'T doing that well at remote work, and management sees it as an object lesson. Maybe upper management thinks you would do fine working from home, but your manager wouldn't be good at managing a remote employee. Maybe once every two weeks isn't enough presence in the office for them. Maybe they disagreed with your evaluation of your productivity when you were working from home, or mistook pandemic conditions for what it would be like having a WFH staff member full-time. Maybe they have other employees who they know aren't suited to WFH who will request it if they see a greater number of their peers being allowed, and they don't want to have those fights. If you go into the meeting as a fact-finder instead of a negotiator, you MAY find useful information for later (or they may not tell you, especially if it involves other staff.)

Sometimes, you can get agreement from management if you either pitch it as an experiment (ie, they're not committing forever, just for X months--once you get to X months, either you've proved your point, or inertia is powerful enough to keep things going) or you "ooch" it...instead of going all in, ask to work from home one day a week, so you can have a three-day stay with SO. That goes well, then you ask to work Monday and Friday at home (of course, make sure it goes well!)

I think you're feeling pressured because of the lease.  For now, I would see if you can take that off the table. Unless you're prepared to quit or commute right this minute, knowing you have a place to live might help you take a longer view of the situation.

Josiecat

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2020, 04:20:00 PM »
Go be with your SO.  Find a new job in their area right away.  You need to be with your loved one not in a different city. 

sailinlight

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2020, 05:26:06 PM »
I was one of the first people in my company to work from home, definitely the first in my business segment. This was in 2010, before it became mainstream. I framed it as "we are moving, I like my job and want to continue to work here, but my family needs to move out of this city. Can we try this as an experiment and reassess after a few months to see how it goes?". I was probably willing to quit over it, but may have stayed otherwise. I agreed to come into the office once a month at my own expense, but that tapered off after a while. It worked out pretty well and I'm still doing it ten years later. Now that more people do it and we have opened up more offices across the world they pay travel expenses when I need to come into an office.

Panly

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2020, 05:30:59 AM »

It's the squeaky wheel that gets oiled.

Be patient but persistent.

And look for Plan B.


DadJokes

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2020, 05:49:15 AM »
Have you talked to the remote employee about what he/she did to get that option?

cool7hand

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2020, 06:03:22 AM »
Prior to FIRE, my expertise was HR and employment law. I've got some bad news. While there are always outliers, the most likely fix is for you to find another job.

The first mistake you are making is taking this too personally. The adverse decision is only a small part about you. The larger picture is likely someone's belief that the in-office collaboration or the like is necessary for the organization's success.

The second mistake you are making is thinking that fairness matters. The decisionsmakers top down don't care about fairness to you v. the other employee allowed to work from home. The organization only needs some reason to differentiate you from the other employee that passes the red-faced test. Any difference not linked to a protected characteristic you possess (gender, age, health, etc.) will suffice, and the organization is likely relying on the other employee's protected characteristic (health or SO's health).

If they've said no, the organization has already weighed your value and the like against the likelihood of you leaving and decided its ok if you tell them to shove it and go elsewhere. They might even be hoping that you do. You'll know where you stand if anyone, and I mean anyone, suddenly is critical of anything that you do. If this happens, the organization has started "the book" on you and is looking to push out a malcontent with maximum safety.

So look at the organization's bs decision as an opportunity to grow by finding another organization that values you and is closer to your SO. I think FIRE 20/20's approach is spot on if you understand the risks. Ask again, but only if you don't expect anything and are already looking. And I mean really looking. Because your current organization will know if you make the my-life-is-terrible-so-please-pretty-please-help-me pitch that you already have one foot out of the door. They probably know you do even if you don't.

I hope this adds some help.


asauer

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2020, 06:32:50 AM »
Ask them to clearly articulate what the criteria is to work from home long term.  Then state that you know another employee with the same title is permanent work from home, and you want the company to be consistent with their past practices.  If they can't articulate criteria then you're looking at potential discrimination and its your choice to stay or go.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2020, 06:54:00 AM »
I was in a similar situation 15 years ago, and commuting for me was EXTREME so this was a big deal.  I went into it from a very non-emotional standpoint.  I was an at will employee like most workers are in the US, so started with the reality that every day I decided if I wanted to work under the current terms and the employer decided if they wanted to employ me under the current terms, knowing either one could propose a change any day and the other could agree or not. No ones preferred terms have to make sense to the other, they just are what they are.

I explained the time, money and effort to come into the office was costly and draining, and I was trying to find a set-up with the kind of balance where I could keep working the job for many years, and then I offered to take a pay cut (about 10%) and also pointed out the savings of not needed office space for me would add to that.  You catch people's attention when you offer to take a pay cut, I sure that's not something often heard.  Luckily, they said yes and I worked that job for a number of years more, and then started a business I was able to do from home, and now am looking at FIRing, so that was the last of me going into an office.

simonsez

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2020, 08:28:36 AM »
Any kind of middle ground available?  What about a proposal to come in 2 days a week or something, when any in-person meetings can be maximized on those days?

The bottom line is you need leverage.  Lots of it.  Being able to work from home efficiently this year will give you some.  Being a very high performer will give you more.  Having better job offers while your current work desperately needs you for a project will give you a crap ton.  However, even what you perceive as a ton of leverage is only your side of the equation.  The employee/employer relationship is a two-way street, and at the end of the day even if you probably should be allowed to work from home and they're still saying No, take your talents somewhere else that will appreciate them more (whether that means salary, benefits, flexibility, etc.).  Freedom is what it's about and management saying no to something for poor reasons doesn't sound like a good place to spend your time, especially so far from SO.  Working toward being closer to SO sounds like a great goal - whether that means changing jobs, taking a sabbatical with FU money, current job changing policies, whatever gets the job done.

Good luck OP!

Proud Foot

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2020, 09:14:20 AM »
My company has 1 person that works remotely and has the same job title as I do. He originally worked out of the office until his wife got a job in the town my SO lives in.. 1.75 hrs away.

Figuring this part out will go a long way to help your situation. Talk with the person and find out what they said/did when they made the move to the other town and were approved to work remotely.

Since they have the same job title as you how much do you work directly with each other? Talk with that person and see if you are on the same page about it and then you could play it up that by allowing you to work remotely in the same town as the co-worker you both would be able to be more productive.

deek

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2020, 09:54:41 AM »
I just had the call and it went pretty well overall. They made it a point to tell me that this isn't a "you" situation and that this is what they have to stick with to maintain the culture that we have built as a company. Multiple people have asked about working remotely, not just me and the answer has been the same. He did say that, depending on the situation, we could maybe work on something temporarily and agreed upon to where I could work remotely, but still come into the office every "x" days/weeks. They said this could be a possibility depending on the situation, because they don't want to lose me.

Personally, I'm thinking that this temporary situation would have to be brought on by me getting another job offer and say "hey, this is my offer, and I intend to move, unless we can work something out." Or something to that effect. I don't know that I would feel comfortable temporarily working remote without having any extra leverage, just too much gray area.

I made sure they knew how much I want to continue being a part of the company, and how strongly I feel about seeing my responsibilities grow.

Of course, SO is frustrated with me now that I mentioned there might be a possibility that she moves to be closer to me, but that may not happen either. But they were understanding about that. I think she's assuming now that they just think she's going to move closer to me for sure. Which isn't the case.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 10:10:59 AM by deek »

simonsez

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2020, 10:30:51 AM »
I just had the call and it went pretty well overall. They made it a point to tell me that this isn't a "you" situation and that this is what they have to stick with to maintain the culture that we have built as a company. Multiple people have asked about working remotely, not just me and the answer has been the same. He did say that, depending on the situation, we could maybe work on something temporarily and agreed upon to where I could work remotely, but still come into the office every "x" days/weeks. They said this could be a possibility depending on the situation, because they don't want to lose me.

Personally, I'm thinking that this temporary situation would have to be brought on by me getting another job offer and say "hey, this is my offer, and I intend to move, unless we can work something out." Or something to that effect. I don't know that I would feel comfortable temporarily working remote without having any extra leverage, just too much gray area.

I made sure they knew how much I want to continue being a part of the company, and how strongly I feel about seeing my responsibilities grow.
Good, that sounds pretty positive.  Still, a "this isn't you" type of reasoning is a lack of engaged/proactive management and is a cheap out in my opinion.  To make telework be a viable option, it means performance standards need to be more objective and that takes work from the management side (and rightfully so to some extent, more people should be working from home but the proper structure needs to be in place since not everyone is an above-average performer).  It's much easier to keep the status quo and get a feel while seeing people in the office everyday.  But, this is changing and I think the pandemic will be a catalyst for many companies.  If companies want to retain their good people, they need to work hard at it!

I dreamed of the idea of teleworking full-time (or close to it) for years and had mentioned it to management who always kicked the can down the road but were never openly opposed to it.  I finally decided that life was more important than career and told them I was moving (back to Midwest, was living in DC) and that if a work arrangement could be worked out, I'd be ecstatic but if not, thanks for the experience and wished them luck.  I have been working mostly from home for the past 3 years now (I still fly to DC occasionally for certain trainings/meetings).  It didn't become 'real' until I did not renew the apartment lease and then my work knew there was a finite countdown in place.  I actually did not have a backup job but had some savings and would have figured it out had it not worked out like it did.  There are some bureaucratic hoops I had/have to handle to make this work, but that was the engaged management side of things to satisfy them and it has been a good arrangement.  I don't know if I want to have this arrangement until I retire but it is good for right now.

OP, not saying you are doing anything wrong at all.  Sometimes these things take time and nothing can be done.  Others, they need a nudge.  You seem to be going about this smartly.

RedmondStash

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2020, 10:46:28 AM »
OP, you have a choice to make. Do you still love your job enough to deal with being denied remote work? Or has that soured you on the job enough that you want to move on?

I understand that it's hard to leave a job you actually like; I've been there. But you can't change management's mind with logic or emotional appeals, only with leverage.

And ask yourself: As much as you like this job, do you really want to keep contributing your skills and value to a place that claims flexibility that it does not actually follow through on?

I think your best move is to look for a new job, get at least one offer in hand, and lay down an ultimatum with your current company -- if you even still want to stay at that point. You may end up working your current job from home, or you may end up in a new job. Unfortunately, power being what it is, you already know you won't get what you want without flexing some muscle. I just wouldn't do that until and unless you get something else lined up.

The only other option I see is to sit down with your management with the express goal of working out a specific plan with specific dates for how you can transition from working in the office to working remotely, addressing any concerns they have along the way.

And -- one last thing -- I disagree that "X gets to work from home; why can't I?" is a bad look. It's all about spin. You could frame it as, "I'm surprised you're so opposed to wfh given that X does it already." Or, "I was so pleased to hear that X got to work from home because I figured that meant remote work was becoming more of a reality here, which is part of why I took this job to begin with." Management knew they were setting a precedent with your coworker working remotely; you can call them on it, as long as you're subtle and nonconfrontational about it.

mm1970

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2020, 04:48:58 PM »
Not the same thing, but similar.

Years ago my group was dissolved and we were being absorbed into a different group.  New boss says "I'm here to tell you that you have to go back to full time, I don't believe in part time." 

At the time, I was on 30hr/ week, but would work up to 36 (they paid me hourly).  I had a small child.  The only other mother of small children (she had two, oldest same age as mine) was also on 30 hr/ week.

Oh, I argued with him, and the VP.  "We don't believe in it."  "I've been doing it for 1.5 years, it works."  "Well, you aren't putting in as many hours."  "True, but I've used the opportunity to train the younger engineers in some of the things that I have been doing, that aren't that hard so that I can focus on difficult problems."  "What if you work full time and just choose your own hours."  "I already choose my own hours."

Eventually, I moved on to "well, I don't understand why you can say that you don't believe in it, when Mrs. Z also works part time."  "She's not a technical employee."  "She has a PhD in Materials Science...yes, she is."  "well, she's not in the critical path."

This ended with ... a phone call to a former boss to get a new job.  Left to a new company, stayed part time for another six months at least. Went part time again when I had my second kid.  I was at the company that refused the part time work for almost 9 years when I left.  Thought I'd be there forever.  Glad I left.  They were shut down a year or two ago.  I cannot imagine losing a job after 17 years at the same place.

For me, my personal life was a hill worth dying on.  I don't regret it.

Yes, they let me leave.  No attempt to get me to stay because...there was a junior engineer who I worked with who was staying.  So they thought.  I knew that he was leaving two months after me.  They did not.  Oops.

Peony2019

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2020, 12:32:22 PM »
I have very mixed feelings about extended work from home arrangements for my teams right now.  They were sent home quickly to safeguard against Covid exposure.  The results have been mixed.

Many team members are now requesting permanent work from home arrangements as it works better for them.  NOT ONE employee has asked how things are going for those who remain on site.  I strongly suggest anyone making a request of their employer for a permanent change ask how it is working for the employer and brainstorm how any barriers/challenges can be overcome.  Also think about how you can demonstrate productivity.  I have certain metrics I measure and as a rule, performance in these metrics has actually decreased.  If you believe working from home increases your productivity, be sure you can demonstrate that in MEASURABLE ways. 

I also have personal concerns for some of my teams that if they move to full work from home, it will be easier to outsource their roles down the line.  Relationships matter and I fear it is easier to make decisions like this when you don't interact with people face to face.  Hear about their lives, see their kids etc..  Different roles have differing exposure to being outsourced but cherry picking by role is really hard to explain to staff and is seen as unfair.

Also realize that some leaders may be focused on adjusting operations and preserving organizational viability after the devastating affect of Covid on economics.  Work from home preferences may be very low on their list of priorities right now.  Timing is everything so consider what your leader may be dealing with and whether the timing of your ask will get their full attention.


CodingHare

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2020, 12:18:53 PM »
Quote
Many team members are now requesting permanent work from home arrangements as it works better for them.  NOT ONE employee has asked how things are going for those who remain on site.  I strongly suggest anyone making a request of their employer for a permanent change ask how it is working for the employer and brainstorm how any barriers/challenges can be overcome.  Also think about how you can demonstrate productivity.  I have certain metrics I measure and as a rule, performance in these metrics has actually decreased.  If you believe working from home increases your productivity, be sure you can demonstrate that in MEASURABLE ways. 

Why is it the employee's responsibility to inquire about the other location?  They only have visibility into their own productivity, which may very well be going up (or at least staying the same) working from home.  If there are measure the company is failing on, it's management's job to vocalize the issue and brainstorm solutions.  Maybe if your employees were aware of the problem they'd be able to mitigate it while still working from home.

I agree on showcasing your productivity as quantitatively as possible, though.  Remote workers have to work harder on selling their performance, for sure.

Regarding personal connections, I think it's very important to organize some culture building meetings.  Nothing terribly intrusive, but my job does a happy hour every other Friday evening.  Starts with a "this team did this cool thing you may not have heard about", devolves into chatting about home and comparing beer choices.  You just have to be more intentional about it.

Quote
Also realize that some leaders may be focused on adjusting operations and preserving organizational viability after the devastating affect of Covid on economics.  Work from home preferences may be very low on their list of priorities right now.  Timing is everything so consider what your leader may be dealing with and whether the timing of your ask will get their full attention.

Sure.  And employees may be discovering they have other priorities than sitting in a car for their hour long commutes each way.  Good advice on negotiating, though.  It always works better if it looks like you are looking out for both parties, nut just trying to score a win.

In my case it was made clear that WFH was only an option while we are officially in lockdown in my state.  Restrictions lifted slightly--already my boss is back in the office.  Won't be long before they call the more reticent among us in.  I am job hunting for remote only work.  My family's safety is more important than a paycheck, and the sheer mental health boost I've gotten from WFH is not something I am going to give up.  If that means leaving a good job for a better one, so be it.

Daisyedwards800

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Re: Job I love won't let me work remotely (one employee already does)
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2020, 02:00:33 PM »
I think there is a good point made here that bosses and management may be trying to maintain the visibility of their staff and showcase the importance of their staff to the owners or company leadership and if everyone is sort of out of sight out of mind, it makes it easier to cut the group entirely or outsource it.