Author Topic: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?  (Read 10711 times)

deek

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IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« on: January 16, 2018, 10:59:29 AM »
I'm 26 and IT is one area I have interest in that stems from my experience as a help desk associate during my 4 years in college, and it's a fact that IT is booming and guarantees me better earning potential than what I'm doing now.

I've done some research on positions such as product management, java development, and system security and am optimistic that a lot of the beginner knowledge I need can come from books and self teaching with help from the internet.

How many of you have the freedom to work remotely? What would you recommend for someone who may want to pursue this field while being unsure of the specific discipline I want to go into? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

big_slacker

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2018, 11:43:13 AM »
I'm a network/network security guy. Have my CCIE + the resume to back that up, that gives me a lot of flexibility in choosing employers. Work/Life balance is a HUGE consideration for me when I think about making a move. Last 3 jobs looked like:


1. Cisco cert trainer (primary)/consulting (secondary)-I worked remote from a ski town and flew in to teach classes, normally 1 or 2 weeks a month. When at home I recorded training materials, did webinars, etc. LOTS of biking, snowboarding and other fun.
2. Network security consultant-I was based near a local office for a nationwide consulting firm but was only in the office once every week or two. Mostly WFH doing design work, meeting with the customers, then fly out to deploy. 1 week a month travel normally to start but my fairly specialized skillset put me in demand more and more. After 3 years travel was over 50% and pressure for more. 2 young kids at home I had to move on.
3. Now network security engineer for one of the big 5 tech companies-Design and deploy large scale network security stuff. It's more office based than previous jobs but very flexible. I WFH twice a week and can pretty much come and go as needed with an eye towards perception (that guy is never here!!!). That part is a lame but the pay and lack of any travel or long hours is totally worth it. FWIW it's a BIG company and many other teams have 100% remote people.

So on the original Q, yes there is great work/life balance available but early on in your career the focus should be on building skills, experience, resume and a good people network. Once you're proven then you start being a lot more selective and move towards those awesome positions. Job hopping is encouraged in IT, so looking out for opportunities to move onward and upward is key.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:45:03 AM by big_slacker »

TheAnonOne

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2018, 11:53:30 AM »
I write software as a consultant/contractor.

The income is pretty insanely high(can break 200k in the midwest), but the hours CAN be long and client demands CAN be high. It is a case by case basis, and I am also interviewing for new contracts about 1-2 times a year.

Working from home is on a client by client basis, but as a full-time developer it is pretty easy to find jobs that at least have that ability (I can't vouch for X times a week but I have almost never had any issues with WFH on bad weather days, or the odd friday even working on a contract basis)

Side projects crop up occasionally, and you don't HAVE to take them, but it does up your "reliability" score (relationships and whatnot) and the pay is usually  80-100 bucks an hour (or more, but it usually ends up being thousands of dollars in the end)


I would say that the balance is definitely skewed to work in this type of roll but I have managed to take 2-3 weeks off in 2017 for a trip to Tokyo and a few local trips. It is all about setting expectations and being up front with time off. My current client already knows I will be gone for 2 weeks in May, and it's only January!


---

PS. I wanted to add an additional note on consulting/contracting vs FTE, I love consulting because I get new and interesting work with every client (or at least its NEW, 'interesting' is subjective) The pay is what pulled me into consulting, and really keeps the work feeling fulfilling, but I've found other benefits!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:59:49 AM by TheAnonOne »

hadabeardonce

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2018, 11:54:49 AM »
I'm 35 and have been working in IT for 16 years as desktop support person. My work/life balance is awesome because I work for a school district. Government jobs are unionized, which limits employer options for contacting employees outside of the workplace. When I'm done with the day I don't get any phone calls and am not required to respond to emails. I also get a ton of paid holidays off.

Project management would be a good avenue. It's more transferrable if you decide to change industries and you get to be a decision maker. IT is fun in the beginning, but it gets repetitive. The other thing to consider is that there is a toll on your body with a job that requires you to sit at a desk. I stick with the desktop support stuff because I can bounce around to different people's offices - get those pedometer steps in, meet people, see sunlight, etc.

If I had to do it over again I would choose a more socially rewarding career. Playing with technology feels pretty soulless and the problems people complain about are trivial. Being a teacher would have been cool... work 9 or 10 months out of the year, impart wisdom, etc. Maybe the grass is just greener on the otherside...

Since others are posting it, I make 90k with a 2-year degree.

(and someone's tax dollars paid for this post)

Travis

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2018, 12:01:53 PM »


So on the original Q, yes there is great work/life balance available but early on in your career the focus should be on building skills, experience, resume and a good people network. Once you're proven then you start being a lot more selective and move towards those awesome positions. Job hopping is encouraged in IT, so looking out for opportunities to move onward and upward is key.

+1.  The baseline requirements for a good IT career are pretty standardized so you'll need to continue to train (experience counts as much as certs) to stand out and prove your worth.  Those flexible hours come with finding the right organization to work that offers it, and that comes from earning your place at that organization.  Don't be surprised or discouraged if you're back at the help desk while you're building your skill set and finding the right positions to apply for.

Uturn

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2018, 12:01:59 PM »
I got into IT because I never went to college.  It has given me a great salary and has mostly been rewarding.  Work/life balance has depended on the individual company.  The company I work for now really encourages personal time.  I have worked for companies that get upset if you are not available on your scheduled times off. 

big_slacker

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2018, 12:24:57 PM »
I'm 35 and have been working in IT for 16 years as desktop support person.

IT is fun in the beginning, but it gets repetitive.

If I had to do it over again I would choose a more socially rewarding career. Playing with technology feels pretty soulless and the problems people complain about are trivial. Being a teacher would have been cool... work 9 or 10 months out of the year, impart wisdom, etc. Maybe the grass is just greener on the otherside...

Since others are posting it, I make 90k with a 2-year degree.

(and someone's tax dollars paid for this post)

Holy crap dude! 16 years desktop support? Not in any way trying to be insulting with this but maybe it feels repetitive because you're doing the same thing at the same level for a decade and a half? Same thing with the rewarding aspect, rolling out a big project that makes people's work lives easier, that you get kudos for and so on feels really good. So does mentoring up and comers and seeing their careers take off.

Agree of the desk bound thing. One project I have in the back of my head is a vlog/instructional on how to stay fit and healthy as an IT worker. It's one of the things I socialize all the time with co-workers about.

Also forgot in my first post about salary and education. I'm a criminal justice major college dropout, haha! Current total comp is mid 200k.

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2018, 12:28:52 PM »
I'm 35 and have been working in IT for 16 years as desktop support person.

IT is fun in the beginning, but it gets repetitive.

If I had to do it over again I would choose a more socially rewarding career. Playing with technology feels pretty soulless and the problems people complain about are trivial. Being a teacher would have been cool... work 9 or 10 months out of the year, impart wisdom, etc. Maybe the grass is just greener on the otherside...

Since others are posting it, I make 90k with a 2-year degree.

(and someone's tax dollars paid for this post)

Holy crap dude! 16 years desktop support? Not in any way trying to be insulting with this but maybe it feels repetitive because you're doing the same thing at the same level for a decade and a half? Same thing with the rewarding aspect, rolling out a big project that makes people's work lives easier, that you get kudos for and so on feels really good. So does mentoring up and comers and seeing their careers take off.

Agree of the desk bound thing. One project I have in the back of my head is a vlog/instructional on how to stay fit and healthy as an IT worker. It's one of the things I socialize all the time with co-workers about.

Also forgot in my first post about salary and education. I'm a criminal justice major college dropout, haha! Current total comp is mid 200k.

What were your first few positions like in IT. As a dropout, what did you do as far as furthering your IT education/skills?

the_fixer

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2018, 12:47:06 PM »
Work life balance has always sucked in the jobs I have had in 20 years I have had one job that was work from home but it still had a bunch of after hours work.

If you are working IT deskside, server, storage admin for a company chances are they will want you in the office as they think out of sight means you are not working.

Yet they never think about the times when you spend an entire weekend doing an upgrade or the night patching.

The work is pretty easy the pay is good

I have worked the entire gamut from deskside, admin to network and server.

My recommendation if you want flexibility is to go with software development or a company the provides service to companies.

Man I sound bitter :)

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


hadabeardonce

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2018, 12:53:05 PM »
Holy crap dude! 16 years desktop support? Not in any way trying to be insulting with this but maybe it feels repetitive because you're doing the same thing at the same level for a decade and a half? Same thing with the rewarding aspect, rolling out a big project that makes people's work lives easier, that you get kudos for and so on feels really good. So does mentoring up and comers and seeing their careers take off.

Agree of the desk bound thing. One project I have in the back of my head is a vlog/instructional on how to stay fit and healthy as an IT worker. It's one of the things I socialize all the time with co-workers about.

Also forgot in my first post about salary and education. I'm a criminal justice major college dropout, haha! Current total comp is mid 200k.
First 6 years w/Employer #1 - Started as a Jr Tech, then became the only tech, then managed two other techs once the company recovered. Left as a Sr Tech.
Next 10 years w/Employer #2 - Started as a Level I(it paid more than the Sr Tech job), quickly moved up to Level II and did a few project based jobs, worked out of class as a Level III, but missed out on the last permanent opening for it. It's not unusual for people to spend their entire careers here.

Maybe I'm leaning too hard on the "life side" of a work/life balance, but I don't mind. Level III positions pay 10-12k more per year, but require more outside work(weekends, nights) that I'm not sure I really want to give up in exchange for the money. The benefits here are awesome, so I don't see a lot of reasons to leave or real incentive to increase my level of formal education.

It does feel like I'm underperforming if "big_slacker" is pointing it out... maybe you aren't the slacker you thought you were?

big_slacker

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2018, 01:19:31 PM »
DJ-I had done some low level IT work off and on. Some phone support, some NOC and some desktop support. Definitely had to pay my dues. Early on in my 'real' career when I was doing a combo of desktop support and server admin I was doing a lot of labbing things up when I was working swing shift and in between tickets and schedule tasks. Building small networks and putting servers on them, etc. Hobby project type of stuff.

Later into the 'real' career I worked for a certification training company as mentioned. So I had to get the certs to teach the classes, and as I would be teaching classes I had to REALLY know the stuff. So I did a few rounds of pretty intense self learning and then taught a lot of classes where I had to explain and prove in a lab things to students. Near the end of the training job I tackled the (at the time) hardest certification test in the business, the CCIE. You can google about it, but I spend roughly 1500 hours over a year and a half prepping for that and taking it multiple times at $1500 a pop. Still bitter about the experience, still totally worth it. :D

hadabeardonce-I used to slack a lot more, still do when I get the chance. In my master plan I'm doing all this work so I can take it easy most of the rest of my life. :D

Parizade

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2018, 04:15:26 PM »
dj, what's your degree?

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2018, 06:09:22 PM »
dj, what's your degree?

@Parizade PR/Communication Studies
Lot's of writing/editing/communicating.. creative work. And learning about human interaction. I enjoyed it. I switch out of Elementary Education my sophomore year.

Parizade

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2018, 06:29:20 PM »
dj, what's your degree?

@Parizade PR/Communication Studies
Lot's of writing/editing/communicating.. creative work. And learning about human interaction. I enjoyed it. I switch out of Elementary Education my sophomore year.

Have you considered business analysis (or systems analysis, or process analysis)? Sounds like you have the right skills.
https://www.zippia.com/research/business-analyst-salary/

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2018, 06:36:37 PM »
dj, what's your degree?

@Parizade PR/Communication Studies
Lot's of writing/editing/communicating.. creative work. And learning about human interaction. I enjoyed it. I switch out of Elementary Education my sophomore year.

Have you considered business analysis (or systems analysis, or process analysis)? Sounds like you have the right skills.
https://www.zippia.com/research/business-analyst-salary/

Interesting, I'll look into that. Maybe I can try to reach out to people in similar positions and get some information.

Parizade

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2018, 06:45:11 PM »
dj, what's your degree?

@Parizade PR/Communication Studies
Lot's of writing/editing/communicating.. creative work. And learning about human interaction. I enjoyed it. I switch out of Elementary Education my sophomore year.

Have you considered business analysis (or systems analysis, or process analysis)? Sounds like you have the right skills.
https://www.zippia.com/research/business-analyst-salary/

Interesting, I'll look into that. Maybe I can try to reach out to people in similar positions and get some information.

I've been doing different variations of business analysis/architecture/writing for the past 15 years or so and would be happy to answer any questions. Or you could check out the IIBA https://www.iiba.org/

HipGnosis

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2018, 07:44:09 PM »
I did IT for about 20 yrs.
I was in the US Air Force for 20 yrs before that.  I worked with digital electronic equipment, but not computers (as we know them). I got an electronics engineering associates degree from the CCAF.
I did computer and printer installation and repair for 4 yrs.  The co. I was with wanted me to go into network admin.  I worked with net.admins enough to see that they were ALWAYS 'on-call'.   I had my fill of that in the Air Force, so I found another job.
I found the PERFECT job (and boss).  A fairly small, but high tech. specialty plastic co.  They even have an R&D dept.
I kept adding skills by self-study, taking on more responsibilities and got pay raises accordingly. 
I worked closely with the (yes, one) network admin.  I became the network moderator.  I made, changed and deleted network accounts.  I did the server backups (and instituted off-site backup rotation).  Then I added network security settings mod.   Then Email mod.  Then VoIP mod.  Then ERP and CRM mod.  I established PC and printer life cycle tracking and estimating, which lead to hardware budgeting.  Project management and technical writing (which was most interesting when working with the chemical engineers of R&D).
The only responsibilities I dropped were PC and printer repairs.  They got more reliable over the years (and I replaced them when 12% of a given model broke) and it wasn't worth my time.  I did keep a few of the broken ones and made good ones out of 2 broken ones when I could.
I really liked the variety - no two days were ever the same.  My first priority was juggling priorities. 
My performance reviews and raise discussions were mostly a calculation of how much of my time I spent doing what skill/job.   My pay (raises) were based on those percentages of the industry standard pay for each job.
Note that I didn't say anything about certifications.  My boss only cared about me being able to do the skills.  That's a big reason why it was a perfect job for me.   
Most IT jobs rely heavily on certifications.  I believe many expect you to get them on your own time, which disrupts the work/life balance.  And many have an expected career path for you, which usually includes being on-call, which really screws with your work/life balance.

PDXTabs

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2018, 08:40:53 AM »
I'm 26 and IT is one area I have interest in that stems from my experience as a help desk associate during my 4 years in college, and it's a fact that IT is booming and guarantees me better earning potential than what I'm doing now.

I've done some research on positions such as product management, java development, and system security and am optimistic that a lot of the beginner knowledge I need can come from books and self teaching with help from the internet.

How many of you have the freedom to work remotely? What would you recommend for someone who may want to pursue this field while being unsure of the specific discipline I want to go into? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated!

I have a BS in Computer Science from 2007. I have worked in tech since before I graduated with my BS (off and on since 1999). I would say that work/life balance is all over the map. Some shops will work you until you are burned out and then hire someone new (average retention at Amazon was two years last I checked, and you need to stay four to get the vast majority of your RSUs - experienced engineers are walking away from $100K in stock just to get away). Other places are practically governments work, but may not pay market rates (but if you come in experienced your non-market rate might be $90K/yr). Right now the market is hot so employers are generally trying to be nice to their people.

I have not found a good telecommuting gig, or I would be doing it. There are advantages to having a face-to-face conversation with another engineer at a whiteboard.

I have my own biases, but I will tell you:
  • Do what you want to do. You need to be happy in your day to day work or you will burn out.
  • When the layoffs come, the coders are the last to go and the first to come back. If times are tough, and you need to be able to ship a product, who would you keep? The managers or the coders?
  • Security should be of growing importance, but often times businesses don't want to invest. However, in the long term it is probably a good place to be.
  • See #1.

dj, what's your degree?

@Parizade PR/Communication Studies
Lot's of writing/editing/communicating.. creative work. And learning about human interaction. I enjoyed it. I switch out of Elementary Education my sophomore year.

There is a whole field called Human–computer interaction. You may want to focus your efforts here. This isn't my domain, but would conceivably include front-end web development and app development.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 08:43:23 AM by PDXTabs »

nawhite

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2018, 04:32:35 PM »
My work life balance is fantastic but I've been extremely lucky and well placed to act upon lucky situations throughout my career. Graduated in 2010 with a Masters in Comp Eng (2009 was a terrible year to graduate so I stuck around an extra year to get a masters). I now work from home (or from an RV driving around, see sig) 100% of the time making >$100K.

The first way I got lucky was I got a security clearance very early in my career. I don't need the clearance for my job anymore but the pay bump it created early in my career has stuck with me as an anchor point with any other salary negotiations. Early in my career that alone meant I made 20% more than an equivalently experienced person and that 20% has compounded over time with every raise and job swap.

Second, I hitched on the AWS (Amazon Web Services) wagon when it first became a thing. I was the young guy at my office and they didn't have enough work for me so I learned all about that newfangled AWS thing and built some fun projects with it. Those fun projects and being able to check the "AWS" box with recruiters got me my second and third jobs. Pick a technology and become a subject matter expert in it and if it later becomes popular, you will become very valuable.

Third, I was lucky to find MMM, stay healthy, and marry a supportive partner which all meant I was financially secure enough to job hop when it was advantageous to do so and negotiate VERY hard on salary and benefits. I also could do things like say "Dear recruiter, I'm relatively happy at my current job, but if you find a 100% remote/work from home job that pays similar to what I make now, I will probably take it." It took about a year, but a job that was everything I wanted eventually fell in my lap. But I never would have found it if I hadn't been actively looking for that full year.

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2018, 08:13:01 PM »
Thanks to @Parizade I've requested information from my local IIBA chatper.

Does anyone know of any other good avenues for specialized training in technical writing?

gerardc

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2018, 11:54:52 PM »
Senior software engineer at Big tech company in Silicon Valley.
$300-400k/year, ~40h of real work per week.

Schedule isn't strictly enforced. Most people come in between 9:30-11:00 in the morning, leave around 5-6:30. That includes a work out in the middle. The official stance is "As long as you get your job done, and are present for meetings and in core hours", they don't care.

15-25 vacation days per year + major holidays.

Working from home isn't typically allowed, but occasionally is fine (maybe once a week is stretching it, but acceptable). Similarly flexible for Dr appointments, car checkups, kids issues, etc.

Still soul sucking in a weird way, but pretty good. Not as flexible as a fully remote or part-time position, but pays much more.

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2018, 11:59:21 AM »
I've been doing a lot of research on technical communication/MIS/Business Analysis the last couple days as a result of this and I'm starting to think a part time MBA/Business Analytics or a graduate level certificate in Analytics would be very beneficial. The certificate is essentially half of the classes that are in the MBA/analytics program.

Schools are starting to phase out full time MBAs for more specialized courses as the demand is changing. At the local state university, over 90% of the MBA enrollment is part-time.

I'm not one to rush into decisions, and will likely think this over more for the next 4-6 months before I make a firm decision. Part of me wants to change jobs now to get a little tech knowledge too. My brain is going bonkers trying to decide what the smartest move is.

brute

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »
Mine is pretty great. I'm a sr. data scientist, doing AI/machine learning research. 100% remote, every other friday off, good benefits. Get my work done and no one bothers me. Hardly ever any weekend or night work. ~$130k in a LCOL.

I mean, sure I could make more elsewhere, but it gives me enough free time to keep my consulting company going, which compensates me  at ~$500 an hour, so I'll take being able to do meaningful work for less money during the day.

sleepyguy

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2018, 02:32:14 PM »
Haha, man the desktop support guy getting some flack :)  I've been in desktop/lan support for about 16yrs myself now, haha.  High school educated, that's about it.  work life balance is FANTASTIC... i don't think or talk about work hardly ever after.  Vacation and benefits are good, pay is ok, not great but really the work is so easy.  Zero travel, tons of wfh, drop in and out generally when i want... all good stuff.  I support small office about 150 users so really no big deal at all.

I'm 39, 45 i should be able to FIRE if i want to.

hadabeardonce

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2018, 03:01:32 PM »
Haha, man the desktop support guy getting some flack :)  I've been in desktop/lan support for about 16yrs myself now, haha.  High school educated, that's about it.  work life balance is FANTASTIC... i don't think or talk about work hardly ever after.  Vacation and benefits are good, pay is ok, not great but really the work is so easy.  Zero travel, tons of wfh, drop in and out generally when i want... all good stuff.  I support small office about 150 users so really no big deal at all.

I'm 39, 45 i should be able to FIRE if i want to.
I can understand a bit of the flak. It's unusual for someone to settle into a position for so long - not the success story people want to read. I probably should have moved to another company to seek more opportunities for advancement or at least cross training, but my current position has been stable(so far), doesn't demand much and is cushy...

16 paid holidays
40 hours of personal leave /yr (expires each year)
96 hours of sick leave
160 hours of vacation
Pension plan at 55 (@2% per year of service)
403b with Vanguard
457 with Vanguard funds available
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Union
Non-profit
COLAs (some years)
Biking distance from home
10 month sabbatical at 85% pay every 7 years (but I haven't done it)
I'll get 192 hours of vacation per year in another 2 years...

I decline all the overtime I'm offered and don't do side work. Retraining would require effort to obtain a job that would probably require more effort. I choose to spend the bulk of my energy on my own pursuits (cooking, car repair, home repair, bike repair, personal finance, exercise, etc.) coasting to FI...

gerardc

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2018, 04:03:30 PM »
Mine is pretty great. I'm a sr. data scientist, doing AI/machine learning research. 100% remote, every other friday off, good benefits. Get my work done and no one bothers me. Hardly ever any weekend or night work. ~$130k in a LCOL.

I mean, sure I could make more elsewhere, but it gives me enough free time to keep my consulting company going, which compensates me  at ~$500 an hour, so I'll take being able to do meaningful work for less money during the day.

Nice. A few questions:
- Do you have a masters or PhD in CS/machine learning?
- What does the remote job look like? Is everyone working remote? any meetings, obligations during the day, or freedom to set your own hours? do you usually work 8h/day?
- I suppose you also consult in machine learning. Where do you find more clients and do they have a lot of work for you or only a few hours here and there?

sleepyguy

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2018, 08:12:22 AM »
Very nice, looks like you got a solid low stress "glide" into FIRE just like I do, haha!

I'm 100% with you... I prefer to do zero OT, also declined promotion a few times.  I don't want the added stress/travel/responsibilities.


Haha, man the desktop support guy getting some flack :)  I've been in desktop/lan support for about 16yrs myself now, haha.  High school educated, that's about it.  work life balance is FANTASTIC... i don't think or talk about work hardly ever after.  Vacation and benefits are good, pay is ok, not great but really the work is so easy.  Zero travel, tons of wfh, drop in and out generally when i want... all good stuff.  I support small office about 150 users so really no big deal at all.

I'm 39, 45 i should be able to FIRE if i want to.
I can understand a bit of the flak. It's unusual for someone to settle into a position for so long - not the success story people want to read. I probably should have moved to another company to seek more opportunities for advancement or at least cross training, but my current position has been stable(so far), doesn't demand much and is cushy...

16 paid holidays
40 hours of personal leave /yr (expires each year)
96 hours of sick leave
160 hours of vacation
Pension plan at 55 (@2% per year of service)
403b with Vanguard
457 with Vanguard funds available
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Union
Non-profit
COLAs (some years)
Biking distance from home
10 month sabbatical at 85% pay every 7 years (but I haven't done it)
I'll get 192 hours of vacation per year in another 2 years...

I decline all the overtime I'm offered and don't do side work. Retraining would require effort to obtain a job that would probably require more effort. I choose to spend the bulk of my energy on my own pursuits (cooking, car repair, home repair, bike repair, personal finance, exercise, etc.) coasting to FI...

PDXTabs

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2018, 08:53:41 AM »
10 month sabbatical at 85% pay every 7 years (but I haven't done it)

Your job sounds great. Why did you not take advantage of the sabbatical? I would be all over that.

deek

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2018, 11:10:52 AM »
With less than 30k in student loans, I know getting an MBA that's somehow tied to IT would probably be a big benefit, but I still don't like the idea of more debt. I'm wondering if IT support would be a great way to gain a lot of knowledge and then go elsewhere after that, whether it's in support, processes/analysis, training.. I'm really not sure yet.
 

Would anyone recommend a CompTIA certification??
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 11:25:22 AM by dj »

brute

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2018, 11:59:24 AM »
Mine is pretty great. I'm a sr. data scientist, doing AI/machine learning research. 100% remote, every other friday off, good benefits. Get my work done and no one bothers me. Hardly ever any weekend or night work. ~$130k in a LCOL.

I mean, sure I could make more elsewhere, but it gives me enough free time to keep my consulting company going, which compensates me  at ~$500 an hour, so I'll take being able to do meaningful work for less money during the day.

Nice. A few questions:
- Do you have a masters or PhD in CS/machine learning?
- What does the remote job look like? Is everyone working remote? any meetings, obligations during the day, or freedom to set your own hours? do you usually work 8h/day?
- I suppose you also consult in machine learning. Where do you find more clients and do they have a lot of work for you or only a few hours here and there?

Master's from University of Illinois UC
I usually start around 7 am +- 30 minutes. There's meetings throughout the day, but usually Tuesdays are meeting prone, and the rest of the week has an hour or two a day. Other than that I set my own hours. Some days I work 4 hours, sometimes is 10. No one really seems to care as long as I get my work done. I just mark on my calendar times that I know I won't be available (like my gym time) and it works out. I'm one of 2 fully remote people, there are 17 others in the group who only work remotely a few days a month.

My consulting work is a little sporadic for ML, usually a big burst of 30 hours a week for a month, then the project is finished. The real money maker is visualization and IT architecture planning. I get about 10 hours a week of that every week that I want it. My clients come to me via word of mouth, though one of the biggest, I was actually at a tour of their plant and made an offhand comment that saved them over $1MM, so they call me every now and then.

In the old days, I used to charge $75 an hour, before I had any confidence. Then I learned to set my rate high enough to turn heads and make people grumble. If they aren't pissed off about the price, it's too low.

big_slacker

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2018, 01:27:49 PM »
Haha, man the desktop support guy getting some flack :)  I've been in desktop/lan support for about 16yrs myself now, haha.  High school educated, that's about it.  work life balance is FANTASTIC... i don't think or talk about work hardly ever after.  Vacation and benefits are good, pay is ok, not great but really the work is so easy.  Zero travel, tons of wfh, drop in and out generally when i want... all good stuff.  I support small office about 150 users so really no big deal at all.

I'm 39, 45 i should be able to FIRE if i want to.
I can understand a bit of the flak. It's unusual for someone to settle into a position for so long - not the success story people want to read. I probably should have moved to another company to seek more opportunities for advancement or at least cross training, but my current position has been stable(so far), doesn't demand much and is cushy...

16 paid holidays
40 hours of personal leave /yr (expires each year)
96 hours of sick leave
160 hours of vacation
Pension plan at 55 (@2% per year of service)
403b with Vanguard
457 with Vanguard funds available
Medical, dental, vision coverage
Union
Non-profit
COLAs (some years)
Biking distance from home
10 month sabbatical at 85% pay every 7 years (but I haven't done it)
I'll get 192 hours of vacation per year in another 2 years...

I decline all the overtime I'm offered and don't do side work. Retraining would require effort to obtain a job that would probably require more effort. I choose to spend the bulk of my energy on my own pursuits (cooking, car repair, home repair, bike repair, personal finance, exercise, etc.) coasting to FI...

My comments weren't really flak, I'm not one to critique others' choices. Hopefully it didn't come off that way. I was talking back about the statements that IT is boring or not fulfilling, but it's more that those are the cons of the particular path within IT that you've chosen, not necessarily the field taken as a whole. The pros are as you stated, assuming your job is fairly guaranteed (assuming you just do it well enough, which I'm assuming :)  ) and has great bennies you can put it on autopilot and enjoy the rest of your life.

The higher paying jobs being discussed I'm sure all come with some higher level of expectation, stress, stability and so on.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2018, 02:43:07 PM by big_slacker »

gerardc

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2018, 07:52:36 PM »
In the old days, I used to charge $75 an hour, before I had any confidence. Then I learned to set my rate high enough to turn heads and make people grumble. If they aren't pissed off about the price, it's too low.

Thanks for the details. Sounds good, but if you charge $500/hour you're only going to do a handful of hours, I imagine. What I think is nice is to charge $120/hour or so, but get more steady work, and once you start charging whole days and weeks, it goes up a lot faster than $500/hour but only for 15 minutes at a time.

You can also fudge the hours a bit to determine your real market worth. For example if I want a raise instead of making it awkward and asking please $180/hour instead of $120/hour, I'll just start applying a rough 1.3-1.5 multiplier to my hours worked. If they're still happy, it means you're basically worth it; you can test what the market will bear more effectively this way.

NoVa

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2018, 09:21:29 PM »
Let's see:
Helpdesk, no real stress, shift work, when you are done you go home for the day.
Helpdesk Manager, a bit more stress, higher responsibility, have to deal with complaints, hire/fire people and manage both the customer and your people. But still mostly go home on time.
System Administrator, can be stressful, when things go wrong you are definitely on the hot seat. Usually on call, can be very bad to get a late night phone call. Virtualization of servers and data centers with redundancy have improved this some.
Network Engineer, similar to System Administrator, there may be more travel as once a network is up they will want to use your expertise elsewhere. The higher up the money chain you get, the more travel you should expect.
Project Manager, similar to Helpdesk Manager, except higher stakes, a bit more stress. At certain companies you are also required to help on proposals and getting new work. These duties come on top of your day job.

dreams_and_discoveries

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2018, 07:20:22 AM »
In my experience, it all depends on the project/team you are on, your boss and the inherent culture there.

MindfulMoney

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IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2018, 07:55:10 AM »
I'm "new" to the IT field as a Senior Help Desk. Worked in Telecom and installing/repair phone & internet for 11 years. Recently got a government job salary with less pay at $63k considering the OT ($10-15k) I used to get.

Benefits are comparable, pension, 457 (no match) and paid health care.

Perks are M-F job with little extra hours, 12 paid sick day per year ( I have a toddler so this is great), 12 paid holidays off and 12 vacation days with a floating holiday as well. They are also willing to pay for any certifications I want to get and in fact encourage it. Currently studying for CompTIA A+ to get started. Goal is to get vested in 6 years  for my pension learn everything I can, get certs/experience  I need and find a higher salary work from home IT job that I can do. Quality of life is important to me.


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« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 08:03:33 AM by MindfulMoney »

brute

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2018, 08:10:29 AM »
In the old days, I used to charge $75 an hour, before I had any confidence. Then I learned to set my rate high enough to turn heads and make people grumble. If they aren't pissed off about the price, it's too low.

Thanks for the details. Sounds good, but if you charge $500/hour you're only going to do a handful of hours, I imagine. What I think is nice is to charge $120/hour or so, but get more steady work, and once you start charging whole days and weeks, it goes up a lot faster than $500/hour but only for 15 minutes at a time.

You can also fudge the hours a bit to determine your real market worth. For example if I want a raise instead of making it awkward and asking please $180/hour instead of $120/hour, I'll just start applying a rough 1.3-1.5 multiplier to my hours worked. If they're still happy, it means you're basically worth it; you can test what the market will bear more effectively this way.

I just charge in increments of 4 hours. I'm very good. People pay.

gerardc

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2018, 09:51:33 AM »
In the old days, I used to charge $75 an hour, before I had any confidence. Then I learned to set my rate high enough to turn heads and make people grumble. If they aren't pissed off about the price, it's too low.

Thanks for the details. Sounds good, but if you charge $500/hour you're only going to do a handful of hours, I imagine. What I think is nice is to charge $120/hour or so, but get more steady work, and once you start charging whole days and weeks, it goes up a lot faster than $500/hour but only for 15 minutes at a time.

You can also fudge the hours a bit to determine your real market worth. For example if I want a raise instead of making it awkward and asking please $180/hour instead of $120/hour, I'll just start applying a rough 1.3-1.5 multiplier to my hours worked. If they're still happy, it means you're basically worth it; you can test what the market will bear more effectively this way.

I just charge in increments of 4 hours. I'm very good. People pay.

Yes but my point is, can you charge that day in day out for 20-40 hours/week throughout the year? Are you really earning 500k-1m per year from that? or just doing 4 hours here and there once in a blue moon?

I mean, why would you even take a 150k/year FT job is that was your true hourly rate? Sounds like you're deluding yourself a bit.

brute

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2018, 10:13:26 AM »
In the old days, I used to charge $75 an hour, before I had any confidence. Then I learned to set my rate high enough to turn heads and make people grumble. If they aren't pissed off about the price, it's too low.

Thanks for the details. Sounds good, but if you charge $500/hour you're only going to do a handful of hours, I imagine. What I think is nice is to charge $120/hour or so, but get more steady work, and once you start charging whole days and weeks, it goes up a lot faster than $500/hour but only for 15 minutes at a time.

You can also fudge the hours a bit to determine your real market worth. For example if I want a raise instead of making it awkward and asking please $180/hour instead of $120/hour, I'll just start applying a rough 1.3-1.5 multiplier to my hours worked. If they're still happy, it means you're basically worth it; you can test what the market will bear more effectively this way.

I just charge in increments of 4 hours. I'm very good. People pay.

Yes but my point is, can you charge that day in day out for 20-40 hours/week throughout the year? Are you really earning 500k-1m per year from that? or just doing 4 hours here and there once in a blue moon?

I mean, why would you even take a 150k/year FT job is that was your true hourly rate? Sounds like you're deluding yourself a bit.

I work for a group whose mission is important to me. I suppose I could go get more clients and leave this place, but then the mission would suffer. The ability to do research in an area I am passionate about is worth making $200k a year instead of $500k.

Deloitte charges $600 an hour for a guy like me, so my clients are used to seeing these sort of numbers even if they don't like them. But remember, we're talking about work/life balance. I've got a family, hobbies, a family farm I manage, and other obligations. I don't like getting calls at 3 in the morning to deal with some dumb thing in Hong Kong. I did that in 2013, made an enormous amount of money, and decided I hated it. This is the life I like, and eventually I'll move on to another dream, but maximizing the amount of money I can make in a given year minimizes my happiness and maximizes depression for me.

Zola.

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2018, 12:40:17 PM »
I do web & print design for a relatively large firm. Recently I have been put onto administrating Salesforce in a large way which is a good project for learning new skills, but I find myself under huge pressure now to balance all my regular work, along with SF.

My boss thinks the other stuff I do is too simple for me now, and they want more out of me, basically. They don't seem to put a lot value on the other work, despite the amount of time involved, and the huge number of people who need me on a daily basis.

I enjoy my work, but every year I am getting more and more work on my plate to balance and I worry about the tipping point.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 12:42:08 PM by Zola. »

BlueMR2

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2018, 04:32:30 PM »
I enjoy my work, but every year I am getting more and more work on my plate to balance and I worry about the tipping point.

Same here.  I'm so overwhelmed with work that I don't sleep well at all the night before workdays.  The good news is that weekend work is super rare.  The bad news is that despite working at least a half hour of unpaid overtime every day during the week we're (as a department) being accused of not working long enough hours (and we all work those extra hours).

I'm primary on software development, but am the backup sys/net admin as I have a history in those areas too.  Pay is decent for me, but this type of work is so variable.  I know people just as skilled that are scraping by on 40% of what I make while I've seen some truly unskilled people I wouldn't want anywhere near a computer system go on to make 3x what I do in the same city (at places I couldn't even get interviews)...  It all makes me scratch my head and wonder.

swampwiz

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2018, 10:25:39 PM »
What is my work/life balance, as someone who once had a career in IT?  Thanks to the H1B visa and the outsourcing "revolution", I had become "early retired" a good bit earlier than I had planned on.

slackmax

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2018, 06:22:40 AM »
I can't believe these salaries!  Well, that's great if you can get $200K per year being a 40 hr per week developer, more power to ya.

But  what about all those H1B Visa guys flooding in from India, and living 10 to an apartment, working for nothing and driving down wages for the rest of us? ?  Are they a thing of the past?   

What about offshoring  the $200K per year jobs to Bangalore for $20K per year?  Another thing of the past??? 

Not trying to be obnoxious. Maybe I'm just envious.  I maxed out at $80K back in 2001 as a 40 hr per week code developer.  All our jobs went to Bangalore and we got laid off, and many of us, me included,  got out of IT altogether. $200K sounds insane. But if they are offering that, then why not, right?   



big_slacker

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2018, 06:48:52 AM »
I can't believe these salaries!  Well, that's great if you can get $200K per year being a 40 hr per week developer, more power to ya.

But  what about all those H1B Visa guys flooding in from India, and living 10 to an apartment, working for nothing and driving down wages for the rest of us? ?  Are they a thing of the past?   

What about offshoring  the $200K per year jobs to Bangalore for $20K per year?  Another thing of the past??? 

Not trying to be obnoxious. Maybe I'm just envious.  I maxed out at $80K back in 2001 as a 40 hr per week code developer.  All our jobs went to Bangalore and we got laid off, and many of us, me included,  got out of IT altogether. $200K sounds insane. But if they are offering that, then why not, right?

Many of the big tech companies are finding that the offshore companies were ok for lower level support but when it comes to designing, building and operating large scale services there is a breakdown. Lack of ownership, sloppy work, timezone issues, turnover leading to lack of long term knowledge and experience with the environment, etc. Maybe cheaper, but QUALITY suffers.

Automation is helping to take a big chunk out of the need for low level support at all. So you hire high quality, well paid folks to do design and build work (programs or infrastructure), to program and do care/feeding of the automation systems, to proactively head off bottlenecks and so on. These people tend to stick around if you're paying at that level and offering good work/life balance. Yes on H1B's, but not randoms. The idea there is to reloc people who already have the potential you're looking for and develop them, not to hire cheap slave labor.

Note that the above is my experience at the last two big tech companies I've worked for. Others do use the low cost sweatshop model but I truly feel those companies are hurting themselves. The Google, FB, MSFT, AAPL's of the world are trying to RETAIN top talent because it drives high quality in an ultra competitive market. AMZN maybe not so much, so work for the 4 and not the 1. :D

starguru

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2018, 07:21:35 AM »
I can't believe these salaries!  Well, that's great if you can get $200K per year being a 40 hr per week developer, more power to ya.

But  what about all those H1B Visa guys flooding in from India, and living 10 to an apartment, working for nothing and driving down wages for the rest of us? ?  Are they a thing of the past?   

What about offshoring  the $200K per year jobs to Bangalore for $20K per year?  Another thing of the past??? 

Not trying to be obnoxious. Maybe I'm just envious.  I maxed out at $80K back in 2001 as a 40 hr per week code developer.  All our jobs went to Bangalore and we got laid off, and many of us, me included,  got out of IT altogether. $200K sounds insane. But if they are offering that, then why not, right?

Yeah outsourcing has never worried me. I've been with a few operations that tried it, and, they got what they paid for.  Developers aren't interchangeable widgets.  A lot of times you can't swap out a high paid developer for some 22 year old making 20/hr.  There are talented developers everywhere, but not enough of them to replace on site highly experienced people. 

As a software engineer my work life balance is great.  Most weeks are 40 hours.  I get paid paternity leave which I will be using soon.  I work remotely.  I'm almost ashamed to say I make north of 500k last year, on the strength of my employer's stock.  Almost 50k goes into my 401k due to after tax contributions, and I can do an in service rollover to Roth.

Life is good. 

gerardc

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2018, 10:24:47 PM »
I can't believe these salaries!  Well, that's great if you can get $200K per year being a 40 hr per week developer, more power to ya.

But  what about all those H1B Visa guys flooding in from India, and living 10 to an apartment, working for nothing and driving down wages for the rest of us? ?  Are they a thing of the past?   

What about offshoring  the $200K per year jobs to Bangalore for $20K per year?  Another thing of the past??? 

Not trying to be obnoxious. Maybe I'm just envious.  I maxed out at $80K back in 2001 as a 40 hr per week code developer.  All our jobs went to Bangalore and we got laid off, and many of us, me included,  got out of IT altogether. $200K sounds insane. But if they are offering that, then why not, right?

Yeah outsourcing has never worried me. I've been with a few operations that tried it, and, they got what they paid for.  Developers aren't interchangeable widgets.  A lot of times you can't swap out a high paid developer for some 22 year old making 20/hr.  There are talented developers everywhere, but not enough of them to replace on site highly experienced people. 

As a software engineer my work life balance is great.  Most weeks are 40 hours.  I get paid paternity leave which I will be using soon.  I work remotely.  I'm almost ashamed to say I make north of 500k last year, on the strength of my employer's stock.  Almost 50k goes into my 401k due to after tax contributions, and I can do an in service rollover to Roth.

Life is good.

Damn, 500k for 40 hours working remotely? I think you said you were at a big company, which don't usually allow remote... how did you get/negotiate that?

starguru

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2018, 09:59:56 AM »


Damn, 500k for 40 hours working remotely? I think you said you were at a big company, which don't usually allow remote... how did you get/negotiate that?

I was hired as a contractor initially.  Made myself indispensable.  Gained a reputation of writing high quality easy to maintain code (thanx unit tests).  Also gained a reputation of being really easy to work with.  After two years they made an offer.

It’s not always 40/hrs a week. Sometimes its more, but not often. And less than half that 500k is salary.   My income was closer to 400k last year and lower than that the year before.  Again,  the stock has done well.   I’m kicking myself for selling as it vests.   I’d be a million dollars wealthier (hindsight is 20/20).


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PDXTabs

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #46 on: January 27, 2018, 10:37:57 AM »
What about offshoring  the $200K per year jobs to Bangalore for $20K per year?  Another thing of the past??? 

I don't think that you can get a developer for $20K in India anymore, especially if count what you pay for the office/benefits/training/retention. On the other hand you can probably find a US developer for less than $200K if you are in a LCOL. But my biggest point is going to be that the best Indian developers have been to the US for school and/or work, and can perform at the same level as US engineers. AFAIK these engineers can demand US wages in the US or 85% of a US wage in India. But, if you off-shored your work to India you probably didn't do it to only save 15% while dealing with timezone and government bureaucracy issues. So, you hire the cheap engineers, and get what you pay for. Companies are starting to learn that they are getting what they pay for.

BlueMR2

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Re: IT Professionals: How is your work/life balance?
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2018, 03:58:29 PM »
On the other hand you can probably find a US developer for less than $200K if you are in a LCOL.

Definitely can.  I know good solid USA junior devs making $30k in LCOL areas.  Senior devs running 2-3x that, still well under $200k...

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!