Is there any scenario that you could go homeless ???

[SwordGuy]

Assuming:

1) We stay sane.
2) The country isn't destroyed by war, famine, plague, revolution, etc.
3) We both get horribly ill and get scared enough to decide to bankrupt our spouse and our daughter (who has Down syndrome)  instead of dying more expeditiously.   And even then, many illnesses or injuries would still allow us to relocate to some country where medicine is reasonably priced.

We own 8 houses at the moment (5-6 of which we are keeping) and all but one of them is fully paid for.   It would take one heck of a natural disaster to destroy or make unlivable all of them as they are spread out over our county.

Even if we did, we could just go buy a house for cash pretty much anywhere that prices aren't insanely high.   

We have 3 different social security income streams, 5 different rental house income streams, 2 different farm income streams, plus a very sizeable stock/bond stash that's held in multiple institutions.   

So, no, not really.   

[Just Joe]

Seems like a phone call with the help of police or a social worker would get her a set of documents and a copy of her license. Especially with smart phones and ubiquitous nationwide calling these days.

I'd still like to know more about why she can't call her family and seek help. I know if this were my family member or friend I'd drive there to get them without a thought about it. Or send them cash and a bus/train/plane ticket. I'd want to know why things became so dire but I'd do it. I'd help them past the crisis and to reestablish themselves.

This lady needs to start earning some money and then act like she is living through the Great Depression until she has a big stack of cash in the bank and all her basic needs met.

There may be estrangement, or she may be dealing with major depression. I've dealt with the latter (not to the point of homelessness, thankfully), and yes, it is very difficult to ask for help with even the smallest things because you do feel like a burden who doesn't deserve the help.

I have alot to learn about the subject of depression. DW and I have someone close to us learning to cope. I follow her lead b/c I seem to have an inability to spot the nuance she sees.

[Laura Ingalls]

I think the OP is being both overly judgmental.  If your house burns down you are homeless.  Being insured and having plenty money doesn’t change that it just makes fixing the problem a million times easier. 

I say that a person who drove home from work one day to find my house straight up gone. I have been homeless while having six figures of cash in my checking account.

Sorry if I came off that way.
I actually posted a reply saying so but I guess I never push the "post" button.
I know you can get unlucky and becomes homeless.
My main thinking applied to her particular story and not anyone else. I have the most compassion for the homeless. we regularly give to the homeless where we sense that they can't help themselves.

Thanks for the follow up.  I think that you definitely got the point that financial and social capital do not provide perfect insurance against freak events.  It is a life experience that has made me less judgmental. 

[By the River]

Would you have called us homeless?  Our house was destroyed in a natural disaster.  We stayed with my best friend and his family for a month.   While we were there we took a picture of everything that our family of 5 owned which fit on a single-sized bed.  But we had insurance, jobs, one car, resources, etc.  Rented a house after a month, bought after a year.   It was a stressful time, but I don't consider that we were homeless.

[calimom]

Would you have called us homeless?  Our house was destroyed in a natural disaster.  We stayed with my best friend and his family for a month.   While we were there we took a picture of everything that our family of 5 owned which fit on a single-sized bed.  But we had insurance, jobs, one car, resources, etc.  Rented a house after a month, bought after a year.   It was a stressful time, but I don't consider that we were homeless.

I would consider that being houseless. Like you say, you had resources, family friends to take you in without a second thought, and the ability (though very difficult) to rebuild the physical parts of your life. It takes a lot to overcome that.

As mentioned, it can take a variety of things to become homeless: job loss, addiction, no social capital. And very hard, if not impossible, for some to recover from that.

[DadJokes]

I was homeless for a brief period of time while still in high school. I moved out of my parents house because of disagreements with my stepmother. I had a good job, but could not get an apartment without a cosigner because I had no credit history, and I was too proud to ask my family for help. I eventually got a friend's parents to agree to cosign on the agreement that they would get the proceeds from the sale of my motorcycle if they ended up having to meet my obligations. But I was homeless for about a week there.

I can see how something simple like losing an ID could lead to that. If I didn't have someone to cosign for me, I would have been out of luck. I was a good employee, so I'm sure my boss would have helped me out, but it's not something you want people to know.

If any of you ever are homeless, a gym membership is a great resource. $10/month is worth the price for showers alone.

[BicycleB]

Strongly agree re gym membership.

After I lost my job and before I stabilized in what I now think of as FIRE (thin FIRE), I considered "What happens if I can't afford to keep my house?" It dawned on me that I could stay clean with a gym membership and backpack of clothes. Would have been $20/month or so in my town, but super valuable. Depending on how little money I had, the next expenses would be bathroom access a broader area (tricky in my city), sleeping gear if possible, and clothes washing; ability enhancers (bus fare, cell phone); and finally the luxuries: ready access to food, and the delight of a storage locker (which is another ability enhancer).

I never needed to implement plans of this sort, but preparing for the contingency was thought provoking. I think there are big jumps in safety, recoverability, health and convenience at certain relatively low levels of assets and income. You really do need some combination of money and mental health.

[Linea_Norway]

Strongly agree re gym membership.

After I lost my job and before I stabilized in what I now think of as FIRE (thin FIRE), I considered "What happens if I can't afford to keep my house?" It dawned on me that I could stay clean with a gym membership and backpack of clothes. Would have been $20/month or so in my town, but super valuable. Depending on how little money I had, the next expenses would be bathroom access a broader area (tricky in my city), sleeping gear if possible, and clothes washing; ability enhancers (bus fare, cell phone); and finally the luxuries: ready access to food, and the delight of a storage locker (which is another ability enhancer).

I never needed to implement plans of this sort, but preparing for the contingency was thought provoking. I think there are big jumps in safety, recoverability, health and convenience at certain relatively low levels of assets and income. You really do need some combination of money and mental health.

I think that if you really are homeless, that access to food is your biggest priority, far above showering, washing clothes and a locker. That is maybe why people on the street often look shabby and unclean and carry their stuff with them.

You could wash your clothes in the shower.

[BicycleB]

Strongly agree re gym membership.

After I lost my job and before I stabilized in what I now think of as FIRE (thin FIRE), I considered "What happens if I can't afford to keep my house?" It dawned on me that I could stay clean with a gym membership and backpack of clothes. Would have been $20/month or so in my town, but super valuable. Depending on how little money I had, the next expenses would be bathroom access a broader area (tricky in my city), sleeping gear if possible, and clothes washing; ability enhancers (bus fare, cell phone); and finally the luxuries: ready access to food, and the delight of a storage locker (which is another ability enhancer).

I never needed to implement plans of this sort, but preparing for the contingency was thought provoking. I think there are big jumps in safety, recoverability, health and convenience at certain relatively low levels of assets and income. You really do need some combination of money and mental health.

I think that if you really are homeless, that access to food is your biggest priority, far above showering, washing clothes and a locker. That is maybe why people on the street often look shabby and unclean and carry their stuff with them.

You could wash your clothes in the shower.

It may depend on location, and what timeframe we are discussing.

In the long term, obviously a human body must have food, yet also a body can survive without bathing, so in that sense of course you are right that food is more important!

But in my city, according to my friend whose avocation for over seven years and job the last four years have been to help the homeless, the homeless themselves say that food is the easiest thing to find. It is not a maybe or a speculation, it is a report summarizing real life experience from dozens and dozens of people. They say the real problem hour by hour is bathroom access. They say the next biggest problem is where to shower. My friend says that none of them like being dirty. They are aware that they smell, they just do not have access to showers, or showers that they feel are safe. From my own experience volunteering with my friend's group that helps the homeless, the difficulty in finding showers is common. From my own experience riding our bus system, visiting our libraries, communicating with fellow citizens, and speaking with business owners, smelling bad and looking bad are common barriers for a homeless person. This experience supports the testimony that where I live, the primary barriers are bathroom and shower access, not food access. So that is the information I used in forming my own contingency plans, which assumed that I would stay in my city.

Is food less available to the homeless where you are?

[Villanelle]

I was homeless for a brief period of time while still in high school. I moved out of my parents house because of disagreements with my stepmother. I had a good job, but could not get an apartment without a cosigner because I had no credit history, and I was too proud to ask my family for help. I eventually got a friend's parents to agree to cosign on the agreement that they would get the proceeds from the sale of my motorcycle if they ended up having to meet my obligations. But I was homeless for about a week there.

I can see how something simple like losing an ID could lead to that. If I didn't have someone to cosign for me, I would have been out of luck. I was a good employee, so I'm sure my boss would have helped me out, but it's not something you want people to know.

If any of you ever are homeless, a gym membership is a great resource. $10/month is worth the price for showers alone.

Where on earth is a gym membership $10???  I think I'd be hard-pressed to find one for $50!

Libraries are another resource for homeless people, though tolerances will vary widely.  But it is a place where you can stay from open to close, without making a purchase.  There's entertainment available and access to the internet, and they are heated and comfortable.  It's a place to stay and be warm during the day, without being shooed away, at least. 

[DadJokes]

I was homeless for a brief period of time while still in high school. I moved out of my parents house because of disagreements with my stepmother. I had a good job, but could not get an apartment without a cosigner because I had no credit history, and I was too proud to ask my family for help. I eventually got a friend's parents to agree to cosign on the agreement that they would get the proceeds from the sale of my motorcycle if they ended up having to meet my obligations. But I was homeless for about a week there.

I can see how something simple like losing an ID could lead to that. If I didn't have someone to cosign for me, I would have been out of luck. I was a good employee, so I'm sure my boss would have helped me out, but it's not something you want people to know.

If any of you ever are homeless, a gym membership is a great resource. $10/month is worth the price for showers alone.

Where on earth is a gym membership $10???  I think I'd be hard-pressed to find one for $50!

Libraries are another resource for homeless people, though tolerances will vary widely.  But it is a place where you can stay from open to close, without making a purchase.  There's entertainment available and access to the internet, and they are heated and comfortable.  It's a place to stay and be warm during the day, without being shooed away, at least.

Planet Fitness

[golfreak12]

I surprised that not everyone know about Planet Fitness $10/month membership.
That's what they are famous for.
EDIT: sorry per month. everyone knows what I meant :)

[Linea_Norway]

Strongly agree re gym membership.

After I lost my job and before I stabilized in what I now think of as FIRE (thin FIRE), I considered "What happens if I can't afford to keep my house?" It dawned on me that I could stay clean with a gym membership and backpack of clothes. Would have been $20/month or so in my town, but super valuable. Depending on how little money I had, the next expenses would be bathroom access a broader area (tricky in my city), sleeping gear if possible, and clothes washing; ability enhancers (bus fare, cell phone); and finally the luxuries: ready access to food, and the delight of a storage locker (which is another ability enhancer).

I never needed to implement plans of this sort, but preparing for the contingency was thought provoking. I think there are big jumps in safety, recoverability, health and convenience at certain relatively low levels of assets and income. You really do need some combination of money and mental health.

I think that if you really are homeless, that access to food is your biggest priority, far above showering, washing clothes and a locker. That is maybe why people on the street often look shabby and unclean and carry their stuff with them.

You could wash your clothes in the shower.

It may depend on location, and what timeframe we are discussing.

In the long term, obviously a human body must have food, yet also a body can survive without bathing, so in that sense of course you are right that food is more important!

But in my city, according to my friend whose avocation for over seven years and job the last four years have been to help the homeless, the homeless themselves say that food is the easiest thing to find. It is not a maybe or a speculation, it is a report summarizing real life experience from dozens and dozens of people. They say the real problem hour by hour is bathroom access. They say the next biggest problem is where to shower. My friend says that none of them like being dirty. They are aware that they smell, they just do not have access to showers, or showers that they feel are safe. From my own experience volunteering with my friend's group that helps the homeless, the difficulty in finding showers is common. From my own experience riding our bus system, visiting our libraries, communicating with fellow citizens, and speaking with business owners, smelling bad and looking bad are common barriers for a homeless person. This experience supports the testimony that where I live, the primary barriers are bathroom and shower access, not food access. So that is the information I used in forming my own contingency plans, which assumed that I would stay in my city.

Is food less available to the homeless where you are?

Thanks for the info, that was new to me.

[Michael in ABQ]

In the U.S.?  A major debilitating illness, mental or physical, to the point that I can no longer earn any (or enough) income and my relatives can't/won't be able to support me.

Which, IMHO, is something that really sucks about our safety net (or lack thereof), and needs to be fixed ASAP.

A little off-topic but truly interested in hearing people's opinions.
Re. mental health and "our safety net (or lack thereof)"

How do you feel about involuntary commitment? What do you think is an adequate justification?
And how do other societies handle it?

There are a lot of homeless people who have mental health challenges, some triggered by physical health issues. Where do we as a society step in and say "you need to be housed in a building (and maybe medicated) even if it's against your stated wishes?"

I personally don't have an answer and struggle with this. I support charitable organizations that provide services to homeless people and ones that try to prevent people from becoming homeless. But don't know how we as a community can/should help those who aren't in a state of mind to accept help. Would really appreciate hearing other's thoughts and any recommendations for further reading.

I have a relative that is homeless. Mental health issues (bipolar) and now compounded with drug addiction. It's a choice for her. Other relatives have tried numerous times to help her - including housing, money, medication. In the end she heads back to California and the life she wants.


As for me, I can't imagine being homeless short of total economic/societal collapse. Plenty of family that we could rely on plus social networks from church and work. It wouldn't be easy for someone to take a family of 8 in, but I have no doubt my family and my in-laws would do so in a moment if we were faced with that.

[BlueHouse]

People who live temporarily with friends or family are still technically homeless.

My understanding is that stability plays a part.  If you are staying with family or friends and this is a stable arrangement, then you're not homeless.  Not sure how stability is defined in this scenario, but there it is.  I certainly didn't consider myself homeless when I stayed with family during a transition in my life, although I did not have a house.

[Peach]

In 2013 Allianz Life released a study that concluded that half of U.S. women (aged 25 to 75 with a minimum household income of $30,000 yearly) fear becoming bag ladies.  Some of these women were high earners.

I have no fear of homelessness while my husband is here, but he is 11 years older than me.  We've done everything right in preparing financially should he pass first, but on rare occasions it crosses my mind that somehow it could all fall apart.  I recognize that this happening is not logical and is based on emotion rather than fact. In response I run scenarios in my mind of just how cheaply I could live if I had to. Good financial planning and having family I'm on good terms with makes it difficult to see how I could ever be homeless.  However, I believe it's best to always be prepared but never let fear rule.

[John Galt incarnate!]

As for me, I can't imagine being homeless short of total economic/societal collapse.

+1

[Villanelle]

I surprised that not everyone know about Planet Fitness $10/yr membership.
That's what they are famous for.

I've lived out of the US for a decade and don't watch TV so I don't get commercials.

That said, it did ring a vague bell when someone posted it.  I live in a HCOL area and there isn't one near me, as it turns out.  I don't know how mobile I'd be if I were homeless, so this might not be a viable option for a lot of people. 

[Villanelle]

If we are defining "homeless" to include temporarily living with friends or family, I actually have been homeless on several occasions. I was "Homeless" for 6 weeks earlier this year when, over the course of an international move, I stayed with my family while en route.  (If living in a hotel counts as "homeless", then I was homeless for 4 months.)  And have been so, by either definition, multiple times. 

That's a ridiculous definition. 

[OtherJen]

I surprised that not everyone know about Planet Fitness $10/yr membership.
That's what they are famous for.

I've lived out of the US for a decade and don't watch TV so I don't get commercials.

That said, it did ring a vague bell when someone posted it.  I live in a HCOL area and there isn't one near me, as it turns out.  I don't know how mobile I'd be if I were homeless, so this might not be a viable option for a lot of people.

Good point on accessibility. For shits and giggles, I did a quick Google search. The two Planet Fitness gyms within Detroit city limits are on the very outskirts of the city (read: 8 miles from downtown), and there isn't one on the east side at all.

At $10 per month (not per year), it may be very reasonable for someone in close proximity, someone with a bus pass, or someone who lives in their vehicle. This assumes that they have a checking account, since I don't remember cash being one of the accepted forms of payment when I signed up.

[soccerluvof4]

I agree never say never and mostly because of some mental issue BUT at that point while I would never want to be a burden on them I would hope one of my 4 kids would step up and do something so I wasn't on the streets.

[KBecks]

We are very stable, but I would never say never.  In very extreme circumstances, we could be in rough shape.

[KBecks]

In 2013 Allianz Life released a study that concluded that half of U.S. women (aged 25 to 75 with a minimum household income of $30,000 yearly) fear becoming bag ladies.  Some of these women were high earners.

Don't become a bag lady is part of my investment philosophy.

[Imma]

I was homeless for a brief period of time while still in high school. I moved out of my parents house because of disagreements with my stepmother. I had a good job, but could not get an apartment without a cosigner because I had no credit history, and I was too proud to ask my family for help. I eventually got a friend's parents to agree to cosign on the agreement that they would get the proceeds from the sale of my motorcycle if they ended up having to meet my obligations. But I was homeless for about a week there.

I can see how something simple like losing an ID could lead to that. If I didn't have someone to cosign for me, I would have been out of luck. I was a good employee, so I'm sure my boss would have helped me out, but it's not something you want people to know.

If any of you ever are homeless, a gym membership is a great resource. $10/month is worth the price for showers alone.

Where on earth is a gym membership $10???  I think I'd be hard-pressed to find one for $50!

Libraries are another resource for homeless people, though tolerances will vary widely.  But it is a place where you can stay from open to close, without making a purchase.  There's entertainment available and access to the internet, and they are heated and comfortable.  It's a place to stay and be warm during the day, without being shooed away, at least.

My local library has been a hotspot for the homeless community for years. But the library staff isn't too happy about it, it seems. They can't ban some people just because they are homeless, but the bathroom used to be free and isn't anymore and the internet use is now restricted to members. Some homeless people still get the cheapest membership because having access to a computer is so important. A church in my town also opens up the doors of it's community center all day for homeless people to gather there. It's warm, they have bathrooms, they offer free lunch and they have books and board games etc. They're not pushy with religion, attendants are free to celebrate Mass with them of course but it's not mandatory. It's not set up to push people to Jesus like some churches' missions for the homeless.

I have a friend who works with the homeless and they confirmed that food isn't a big issue. There are plenty of charities that offer free food and there's always dumpster diving. My friend said that boredom was a big issue - it's hard to have nothing to do all day every day. Many homeless people have mental health issues and crave stability and purpose and it's hard to stay off drugs or alcohol when you have nothing else to do. My friend is a big fan of Emmaus Communities where homeless people are given a roof over their head and work to do at the same time.

[Tyson]

Re: the original question.  Yes, I can easily see how I could end up homeless.  After my heart attack (at 34 years old) I developed quite the adult-onset alcohol addiction trying to deal with the residual existential terror.  It helped for a bit but eventually became it's own problem.

While I was going though that, I burned through my work/career, burned through my relationships with my immediate and extended family and burned through a ton of money. 

Toward the end of that arc, I was VERY EASILY able to see myself on the streets. 

What made it especially difficult is I'd spent most of my life not even liking alcohol (or any drugs), and my personality is "engineer type" with sort of a cool rationality approach to things. 

[Metalcat]

Re: the original question.  Yes, I can easily see how I could end up homeless.  After my heart attack (at 34 years old) I developed quite the adult-onset alcohol addiction trying to deal with the residual existential terror.  It helped for a bit but eventually became it's own problem.

While I was going though that, I burned through my work/career, burned through my relationships with my immediate and extended family and burned through a ton of money. 

Toward the end of that arc, I was VERY EASILY able to see myself on the streets. 

What made it especially difficult is I'd spent most of my life not even liking alcohol (or any drugs), and my personality is "engineer type" with sort of a cool rationality approach to things.

Thanks for sharing this.

As someone who has worked with homeless people my entire life, I've met plenty of people born into extreme poverty, but I've met just as many who ended up there from "normal" middle class lives. It's not an exceptional story, it's remarkably common among shelter folks.

Me personally?
It would be almost impossible for me to end up homeless, but that's due to my very unique position of being surrounded by people who understand how to help those falling into poverty and personally being a power broker in that world connecting the non profits with the wealthy who provide their funding.

I would have to actively reject help and choose homelessness, but in my experience, there are a lot of reasons why people do reject help even when they really need it, so it's not impossible for me, just tremendously improbable.