Is there a link between Mustachism and happiness?

[MrThatsDifferent]

I’m still pretty new to this journey but I’ve been wondering how people perceive mustachism as improving their overall feelings of happiness? For me, it’s been a double-edge sword. I’m definitely happier knowing that I’m on a path that will lead me to where I want to be. However, it’s a tough journey and feels sometimes like you’re sacrificing current happiness for future happiness. Also, way too often I get down about mistakes I made in the past and wish I would have done things differently. Also, reading about people half my age making better decisions bums me out. Overall, I don’t let myself dwell too long and I think I’m happier.

How do the rest of you feel?

[undercover]

Money will never make you happy. It can only prevent you from being miserable. That said, having a huge goal (FI/RE) that's converse to what everyone is doing can be a fun thing to work on/towards and guide you towards a purpose in life. Once you reach it though, there will be a void unless you've developed other means of sustaining happiness. So you need to live your life along the way and do the things that you enjoy and remember to make sure to try new things.

The goal here is to achieve mindful consumption, nothing else. It's not about being frugal or cheap - it's about mindful consumption. And it's to understand where to put all the savings you will have from eliminating mindless consumption. At the end of the day, if you're putting 80% of your check into stocks, you're still "consuming" - you're just choosing time over any of the other bullshit that does nothing for you.

[Carrie]

I'm happier than I've ever been. I have ordered my life to only pursue things that are meaningful to me. I don't have the concern of keeping up with anyone and long ago realized happiness does not come from aquiring stuff.  I have absolutely not given up anything that I've valued to reach FI. I think part of this is not giving a F*ck what others think - due to age/maturity, and partly because I embrace frugality as a way of life. I love simplicity & feel accomplished whenever I can save money.

[Brother Esau]

Happier post MMM no doubt. we are mostly mustachian which supports my mountain bike addiction (bikes/parts/maintenance) and our Europe vacations.

[mozar]

Also, way too often I get down about mistakes I made in the past and wish I would have done things differently

That's pretty common. I've struggled with that myself. Mindfulness/meditation helps with that.

[wordnerd]

I started down the MMM path at a young age (23 or 24) so there wasn't a lot of adult "before" for me to compare to. I did sometimes feel like I was missing out on my carefree 20s. But, now in my early 30s, with 1.75 kids, I notice I have so much less stress than my peers. I don't feel stuck in my job. I don't worry about schools; I know I can move or homeschool if we need to. I don't worry about my career ladder or whether taking time off with my kids will hurt my lifetime earnings. I don't worry about balancing student loans and a mortgage.

The trade-off has definitely been worth it for me.

[May2030]

I am only nine months in and its been a bit of a rollercoaster. Initial wow this is amazing I can do this feeling all great to be replaced like yourself by feelings of regret at past decisions/spending. Then was time to knuckle down and get on with changing habits, working out budget and coming up with a master plan which I have found positive. Its all new the plan must be followed which at times I have found to be tough and quite miserable.  This month I am doing a little rebalancing, not being so hard on myself and trying to discover what I am going to fill my life with in the future.

In short I am so happy to of discovered MMM  even though I have not at this moment got  Mustachism right for me.

[inline five]

I have always been frugal by necessity but only once we started making decent money have I enjoyed it. It was no fun being frugal but only saving $1000-$1500/month.

I used to think I would rather have possessions than life experiences, now I have completely flipped and realize what a burden those possessions bring. I really am starting to embrace minimalism and reducing our belongings as time goes by.

[Lmoot]

I’ve always been frugal and happier/ more peaceful for it. If anything, having too many material things decreases my happiness and makes life more hectic and stressful. I yearn for simplicity, not just for how it can impact my future, but I enjoy it just for simplicity sake. I love the feeling of having “just enough”. I can’t even imagine what hell it must me just to want things for the sake of having them...and wanting ALL the things.

[EmFrugal]

I feel happier overall after getting serious about Mustachianism. I really appreciate that it has taught me to cut out so much waste in my life. Before, that waste was mindless purchases that did nothing to enhance my quality of life. Now, when I make purchases, it's on things that are needs and that also bring a lot of value to my life. That in turn brings greater satisfaction.

We live in a HCOL area surrounded by very wealthy spenders. It used to bother me to live among them and not be able to "keep up." But now that I have found MMM, I take comfort in knowing there is a better path to fulfillment. And I also think Mustachianism works well with minimalism, meditation, and living a healthy lifestyle (all of which increase happiness).

[2Birds1Stone]

As someone who found this stuff 5 years ago, and got on a 7-8 year plan to get out of working a job........I can say it's been awesome and brings me much joy.

I'll be pulling the plug on work in my early 30's, at least for a few years as I explore other interests, travel, and spend time with my family.

[McNaMoney]

I've been doing mustashianism for a few years now and couldn't be happier.  I've always been someone who places a lot of value on self-reliance and it feels amazing to know how much I can provide for my family compared to my consumer-sucka neighbors who can never seem to make ends meet.  It's very empowering to know that if a financial hardship came my way I would know how to handle it and I wouldn't need to rely on someone's charity for help.

Also, way too often I get down about mistakes I made in the past and wish I would have done things differently

That's pretty common. I've struggled with that myself. Mindfulness/meditation helps with that.

Coming from an Economics background, I like to think of this as sunk cost.  The mistakes were made, that time is over, there's nothing you can do about it now.  All you're doing is deteriorating your health by stressing and worrying about it, so it's best just to move on.  I know easier said than done, but just a bit of logic I like to remind myself of whenever this happens to me.

[wordnerd]

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post is that I also feel a lot of joy and satisfaction in everyday things. Once you get into the frugality mindset, you see many opportunities to learn new things (cut your own hair! learn to sew!), challenge yourself (can you have fun today without spending any money? can you walk instead of drive?), or enjoy the fruits of your own labor (food you cook yourself always tastes better!).

And when you do decide to splurge, you do it intentionally and enjoy it more. A lot has been written on hedonic adaptation, so I won't delve into it. To me, the larger driving forces are intentionally and challenge. Someone posted an NYT article about the tyranny of convenience (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/16/opinion/sunday/tyranny-convenience.html), and I think it relates here.

In short, living this way makes me feel self-sufficient, in control, proud of myself. You might call those things happiness.

[SilveradoBojangles]

Mustachianism has made me happier because:

a) I feel like I have a plan and am working towards my goals, which makes it easier to let go of past mistakes.
b) I have more financial security than I ever had before, which brings me great happiness.
c) Mustachianism has improved the way my partner and I communicate about money. Basically, when I realized that money is just a tool for happiness it made it so much easier to discuss our needs and dreams and desires related to finances. Because I might not think he should spend $x on y thing, but I do want him to be happy, and when he can explain to me why he values this thing (and I can do the same) it makes it much easier to get on the same page.
d) I have learned so much about who I am and what I need by experimenting with cutting back on my spending, giving myself time to adjust, and then thinking about how my net happiness is affected. Some things I didn't even miss. Other things were a harder adjustment, but I got used to it. And some things I added back in because I realized I went too far, and I actually really value that thing. So many people spend mindlessly, so having this skill feels like a super power.

I hang around here because I'm curious about other people's experiences and because I've learned a lot, but you can't compare yourself to others. Some people would be appalled at our level of spending, but it works for us. We are still saving far more than the average person. You've got to figure out your definition of "mustachianism".

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I have enjoyed frugality and efficiency for several reasons.

First, I really enjoy the simplicity of everything.  My 1,100 square foot house has very little wasted space, wasted material items, etc. We only have things we enjoy here, and I find my home to be a very positive environment. Friends with similar incomes have much bigger houses, much higher car payments, and much higher bills.  It costs them a lot of working hours just to cover all this.

Second, I like having a long term goal to work towards.  Sometimes it's hard to be at work and think it's all mindless and without a purpose; but when you have a goal as big as financial independence, it gives me a real sense of what I'm ultimately working towards.

Probably most importantly, it has given me tremendous leverage that a lot of people just don't have.  My wife and I gross about $11,000 per month, yet our expenses are just $2,600 per month.  Thus, when we have a kid, cash flow from just my income will be more than enough, and my wife can stay home as long as she wants.  Similarly, if/when an emergency happens, we have money set aside to take care of it.

On this last point, when you have that much financial security, it's easy to forget how much people struggle with those types of things. My brother had to work 80+ hours a week when his wife stayed him for their first kid.  My friends (both teachers) had to do some side jobs to cover mom staying home to take care of their child. My other brother had to ask my mom for money when he wrecked his car.

Basically, having this much financial security is a pretty darn good feeling, and far outweighs the neuroticism that may come along with being a little overly frugal.

[dd564]

I think the biggest thing that would make someone happy is the ability to do whatever they want, when they want.

This can be accomplished with money or without.

The biggest issue is probably whether your time is being dictated by your boss or by you.

[Telecaster]

"Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen [pounds] nineteen [shillings] and six [pence], result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery."

--Mr Micawber, in Charles Dickens' Great Expectations.

Living below your means is the key to happiness. 

[Just Joe]

I grew up listening to how some people thought the past was better than the present. They had lived through the Great Depression and WWII and all the prosperity that came after WWII. These people were mindful about their money b/c they had done without early in life b/c they had little choice.

I'll suggest that some of people's problems and attitudes are self-inflicted. Consumerism. Short term thinking. Lack of thoughtful planning. Instability in personal relationships. Letting the mainstream media define one's outlook on life and their priorities.

We hear about flat income growth, uncertain employment and all sorts of economic problems. Yet using "frugal muscles" that we develop and learn from each other here we too can have some of the same sense of stability and freedom as my grandparents.

I credit everyone here for helping DW and I fine tune those skills and our own careers/hard work for giving us the income to both live and save.

When a problem pops up DW and I can deal with it. When we need to change something in our lives DW and I can. DW and I can spend the weekend not worrying about next week. We know that we are not financially immortal but we are versatile and agile.

[Prairie Stash]

I guarantee mustachians are happier overall. If they're not, they should start buying stuff to become happier...any takers?

find a bunch of office workers who hate their job and still have to do it because of kids/mortgage/car loans/student loans/529 etc. Compare yourself to those people, that's soul depressing. Nobody is 100% happy all the time, on average though being mustachian allows you to escape truly awful situations.

[Mr. RME]

I think it can 2-3 years to really kick in.  At first, you may feel like you are depriving yourself of other forms of joy that you could just "buy".  However, after just a few short years, you will see the progress you are making, while the rest of your friends are still stuck standing flat-footed, having made no progress.  Keep at it.  Remember that no one gets everything right, everyone makes plenty of mistakes along the way...I sure did!

[Laura33]

I think it depends on how you define happiness.  I have given up a fair bit of the “cheap thrill” version of happiness - that zing of going to the mall and buying new clothes that look really good, for ex., or finding just the perfect piece for the house.  But that is really the junk food version of happiness — a short-term hit of pleasure that leaves you even emptier a few hours later.

What I have gotten is a daily reminder of exactly how much I am capable of.  I had fallen into many, many habits of convenience.  And again, it feels good in the moment, just like a Big Mac is freaking delicious.  But reminding myself that I can do stuff - that I can deal with whatever I need to - is powerful.  So I have fewer short-term pleasure hits, but I have traded that for a feeling of power and contentment that is infinitely better.  It’s more like a slow burn than a daily high.

And I am also on the far end of this, so let me reassure you:  it is totally worth it.  What I have now is peace of mind that I couldn’t even imagine when I was younger.  I grew up poor, and most of my life was driven by the desire never to be poor again.  And we went through some sucky times in our careers (like, say, the first tech crash, when I first had to walk away from my dream job because DH’s plant shut down, and then a few years later we had to sell the house we had built as our “forever” home when the next plant shut down).  And then about a year or two ago I realized that we were FI - that if we cut back on some of our super-spendy ways, neither one of us would ever have to work again.  I cannot even put words to the relief/happiness/security I felt at knowing I never have to uproot my family and move across the country ever again, unless I want to - that, more than anything else, has made me feel like I have succeeded.  So now when I do buy something spendy, I can actually and truly enjoy it - because I know all of our other higher-priority goals are covered.  And that feeling is priceless.

[GuitarStv]

I think it depends on how you define happiness.  I have given up a fair bit of the “cheap thrill” version of happiness - that zing of going to the mall and buying new clothes that look really good, for ex., or finding just the perfect piece for the house.  But that is really the junk food version of happiness — a short-term hit of pleasure that leaves you even emptier a few hours later.

+1


I'm a hedonist . . . in that my primary motivation is seeking out net happiness.  To me, that means to reduce the peaks and valleys and raise the amount of contented joy experienced every day.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

My happiness level went through a classic bubble after discovering Mustachianism.



I started off with a head full of steam, optimizing every aspect of my life from insurance to groceries to investments. I was saving 50% of my salary and preaching the MMM gospel to my reluctant wife. I think I achieved peak happiness about a year in, when I got a new job with a salary bump, a better location, and a $20K bonus. Then things suddenly turned worse. There had been signs of trouble before, with my family regularly blowing through our monthly food budget. Going out to eat (one of my wife's little joys in life) had turned into an ulcer-inducing slog for me. I slowly realized that my insistence on frugal perfection was sapping the joy from my life, and I was making my wife miserable by making her feel guilty about every purchase above subsistence.

I was finally able to let go and just enjoy life when I took yet another new job, with another nice pay raise and and even better location (as in, this is the place I want to spend the rest of my life). The new job required a year of employment before I could invest in a 401K. They don't even offer an HSA. That completely ruined the tax avoidance strategy that I had followed diligently since converting to Mustachianism. It sucked. But I suddenly realized that I didn't care. I realized that "good enough" is better than "optimal" for me. If I care about where every penny goes, I become completely miserable. If I just try my best day to day and quit worrying about derailing my retirement every time I take my wife out for Mexican, we're both much happier.

I can easily say that I'm happier now than before MMM. In a bad year, we save about 35% of our income without even trying. Some years we'll save 50%. I don't know what my FIRE date is and I don't care. I do know that I never have to worry about money. That's good enough for me.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

And I am also on the far end of this, so let me reassure you:  it is totally worth it.  What I have now is peace of mind that I couldn’t even imagine when I was younger.  I grew up poor, and most of my life was driven by the desire never to be poor again.  And we went through some sucky times in our careers (like, say, the first tech crash, when I first had to walk away from my dream job because DH’s plant shut down, and then a few years later we had to sell the house we had built as our “forever” home when the next plant shut down).  And then about a year or two ago I realized that we were FI - that if we cut back on some of our super-spendy ways, neither one of us would ever have to work again.  I cannot even put words to the relief/happiness/security I felt at knowing I never have to uproot my family and move across the country ever again, unless I want to - that, more than anything else, has made me feel like I have succeeded.  So now when I do buy something spendy, I can actually and truly enjoy it - because I know all of our other higher-priority goals are covered.  And that feeling is priceless.

This is great, and this is exactly what I'm working towards as well.

My wife and I grew up in very different households.  I didn't know it at the time, but my parents made about $200k/year when I was growing up. But they drove Mercedes, lived in a big 2,500 square foot house, spent a lot of money, etc. So things felt tight when my mom switched jobs or something. I never wanted to have that feeling.

Conversely, my wife grew up in a one-income household.  Her dad was a CPA that made a modest income and her mom was a SAHM until she was about 14. Things were really, really tight with a household of five.

So while we come from largely separate backgrounds, we both agree that we don't want to live like the way each of us grew up. I have no interest in spending so much money that I need to work forever, and my wife has no interest in things being as tight as they were when she was growing up. Something in the middle is probably just right.

Thus, we've created a modest but comfortable standard of living. We were pre-approved for a $350,000 mortgage but bought our house for $127,000.  Friends with similar incomes drive brand new trucks, SUVs, and Jeeps, and we drive used Toyotas and Hondas.  We could obviously own a lot more, but our "sacrifice" (if you even want to call it that) has created a great sense of security, which is invaluable for our peace of mind.

And this modest standard of living has allowed us to save for retirement, which is in itself snowballing us towards even more security.  It's all worth it, and I'm pretty happy we live this way.


Of course, thirty years from now, my kids may be on some internet forum talking about how stupid we were. Oh well.

[Laura33]

Of course, thirty years from now, my kids may be on some internet forum talking about how stupid we were. Oh well.

Nah.  That happens @12-17 years after birth.  Once they have to think about supporting themselves, you start to look a lot smarter again.