Is maternity leave counted as part of family and medical leave?

[hopetogetfi]

I had an appointment today with our HR manager. I am pregnant. My baby is due in November. I have been told that my paid maternity leave (6 weeks) will be counted as part of family and medical leave (12 weeks). That is, if I take 6-week maternity leave in September, I will only have 6 weeks FML left for after the baby is born. Is this true? I am asking because my experience was different during my first pregnancy a few years ago. Thanks!

[seattlecyclone]

My understanding is that the minimum requirement under FMLA is for 12 weeks of leave. This leave does not need to be paid, but health insurance coverage must continue under the same terms as if you were working. If your employer wants to pay you for part of that time, great! That doesn't mean the law guarantees you 12 weeks of unpaid leave in addition to that, it means that your employer is going beyond the legal requirements by paying you for part of the required leave. An employer can also go beyond by offering you more unpaid leave than required (which seems to have been the case with your first pregnancy), but again this is completely up to the employer.

[Mrs. Pomodoro]

Congrats! Looks like it's up to the employer how they structure the leave: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/1421.htm

Substitution of Paid Leave
Employees may choose to use, or employers may require the employee to use, accrued paid leave to cover some or all of the FMLA leave taken. Employees may choose, or employers may require, the substitution of accrued paid vacation or personal leave for any of the situations covered by FMLA. The substitution of accrued sick or family leave is limited by the employer's policies governing the use of such leave.

Does your state provide other benefits? (Was your first pregnancy in the same state?) I noticed that my employee handbook only refers to state (California) benefits probably because it covers more than the federal one.

Good luck!

[forummm]

My understanding is similar to your HR explanation and the previous 2 posters. It's nice that they will pay you for the 6 weeks. FMLA doesn't guarantee you get paid for any of the 12 weeks you are allowed to take off.

[jackiechiles2]

Yes it is.  You're entitled to 12 weeks of FMLA leave in any given year.   The leave can be paid or unpaid. 

[I'm a red panda]

Your company does not have to offer more than 12-weeks family/medical leave- whether it is paid or unpaid.  So yes, the 6 weeks paid would count towards that 12 weeks.

Be glad you qualify for FMLA at all.  I was SHOCKED to find out that despite working for a company of thousands, because my branch has less than 50 workers, I am guaranteed NOTHING.  (Thankfully my company doesn't suck, and I can take 6 weeks unpaid- but they don't have to let me take anything.)


I did have some friends caution against using all 12 weeks; because you just don't know if the baby will get sick in the first year, and you need a week or two later.

[forummm]

For those readers outside the US, Oman, and Papua New Guinea, who can't understand what's going on in this thread, the US is one of the three countries in the world that does not provide any paid maternity leave.

[KCM5]

You get 12 weeks - your spouse also gets 12 weeks within the first year that the child is born (as long as they work for an employer covered by FMLA).

Above posters are correct about how leave is covered.

The US is really, really pathetic in this area. Really pathetic.

[Gin1984]

Your company does not have to offer more than 12-weeks family/medical leave- whether it is paid or unpaid.  So yes, the 6 weeks paid would count towards that 12 weeks.

Be glad you qualify for FMLA at all.  I was SHOCKED to find out that despite working for a company of thousands, because my branch has less than 50 workers, I am guaranteed NOTHING.  (Thankfully my company doesn't suck, and I can take 6 weeks unpaid- but they don't have to let me take anything.)


I did have some friends caution against using all 12 weeks; because you just don't know if the baby will get sick in the first year, and you need a week or two later.

Unless your branch is legally considered a separate company or the branch is the only one within a certain amount of miles (I'll have to find the distance again), that is not true.  I can do that if you need.

[Gin1984]

You get 12 weeks - your spouse also gets 12 weeks within the first year that the child is born (as long as they work for an employer covered by FMLA).

Above posters are correct about how leave is covered.

The US is really, really pathetic in this area. Really pathetic.

Unless both of you work at the same employer, then you only get twelve weeks total. 

[Stlbroke]

Netflix is allowing their employees up to one year maternity leave for the first year of their child's birth. All of it paid and with benefits.  Hopefully more companies adopt this

[KCM5]

Your company does not have to offer more than 12-weeks family/medical leave- whether it is paid or unpaid.  So yes, the 6 weeks paid would count towards that 12 weeks.

Be glad you qualify for FMLA at all.  I was SHOCKED to find out that despite working for a company of thousands, because my branch has less than 50 workers, I am guaranteed NOTHING.  (Thankfully my company doesn't suck, and I can take 6 weeks unpaid- but they don't have to let me take anything.)


I did have some friends caution against using all 12 weeks; because you just don't know if the baby will get sick in the first year, and you need a week or two later.

Unless your branch is legally considered a separate company or the branch is the only one within a certain amount of miles (I'll have to find the distance again), that is not true.  I can do that if you need.

It's a 75 mile radius.

Regarding Netflix - they don't give you the leave, they allow you to take as much as you'd like. Depending on the culture of the workplace, it could lead to new parents taking less leave. I'm assuming Netflix won't have this problem, but something like that being implemented by places with a high pressure work culture would not be useful.

Personally, I'm one of those liberal-socialists-commies that thinks the US should mandate leave for all workers, no exceptions.

[seattlecyclone]

Regarding Netflix - they don't give you the leave, they allow you to take as much as you'd like. Depending on the culture of the workplace, it could lead to new parents taking less leave. I'm assuming Netflix won't have this problem, but something like that being implemented by places with a high pressure work culture would not be useful.

I would not make the same assumption as you. Netflix already has "unlimited vacation," which in practice means "you can take as much vacation as your manager thinks is appropriate given your team's current workload and your recent job performance." I would much rather have a number of days I am entitled to take off than have a constant negotiation about whether or not I can take a trip next month.

[KCM5]

Regarding Netflix - they don't give you the leave, they allow you to take as much as you'd like. Depending on the culture of the workplace, it could lead to new parents taking less leave. I'm assuming Netflix won't have this problem, but something like that being implemented by places with a high pressure work culture would not be useful.

I would not make the same assumption as you. Netflix already has "unlimited vacation," which in practice means "you can take as much vacation as your manager thinks is appropriate given your team's current workload and your recent job performance." I would much rather have a number of days I am entitled to take off than have a constant negotiation about whether or not I can take a trip next month.

Yeah, I'm being generous and giving them the benefit of the doubt but I agree with you. Given a place that has three weeks vacation vs unlimited vacation, I'd take the job with three weeks every time. It's mine and you can't take it away from me!

[partgypsy]

FMLA stipulates that you cannot be fired for getting pregnant, and allows you up to 12 weeks (unpaid) leave without getting fired for being away from your job. That's all it does.

For my first one, they decided that I couldn't use any of my accrued leave I accrued as a post-doc (why even have me fill out time cards if you are not even going to look at them?). but I had accrued some time at the next job.
I took 8 weeks off.  So I arranged my time to be reduced to 36 hours a week, and using a combination of accrued SL and advanced SL to pay for that cost. According to them at the time, I would not have health insurance if I was not being paid during that time, which I'm not sure was correct.

the following 2 months after coming back I arranged a 36 hr a week schedule to re-acclimate, but my boss was being so bad about the whole situation I ended up working 40 hours a week anyways in order to appease her.

[I'm a red panda]

Unless your branch is legally considered a separate company or the branch is the only one within a certain amount of miles (I'll have to find the distance again), that is not true.  I can do that if you need.

Sadly, it is totally true. I had no idea FMLA was as limited as it was.
I mean, I knew these things were in there for small businesses, where holding a position for 12 weeks would be a hardship. I just never considered where I worked to fall into that until I looked into using FMLA. 

I actually have to file different paperwork to get unpaid leave than people in the other offices do for FMLA, because my leave is NOT FMLA. (And like I said- I only get 6 weeks, what the company allows for unpaid leave, not up to 12.)

For me, it's the miles thing- we are not a separate company. The closest office to us is 200 miles.

[Gin1984]

FMLA stipulates that you cannot be fired for getting pregnant, and allows you up to 12 weeks (unpaid) leave without getting fired for being away from your job. That's all it does.

For my first one, they decided that I couldn't use any of my accrued leave I accrued as a post-doc (why even have me fill out time cards if you are not even going to look at them?). but I had accrued some time at the next job.
I took 8 weeks off.  So I arranged my time to be reduced to 36 hours a week, and using a combination of accrued SL and advanced SL to pay for that cost. According to them at the time, I would not have health insurance if I was not being paid during that time, which I'm not sure was correct.

the following 2 months after coming back I arranged a 36 hr a week schedule to re-acclimate, but my boss was being so bad about the whole situation I ended up working 40 hours a week anyways in order to appease her.

That is not entirely correct.  And the choice to allow you your accrued leave as a post doc depends on your state law.

[Gin1984]

Unless your branch is legally considered a separate company or the branch is the only one within a certain amount of miles (I'll have to find the distance again), that is not true.  I can do that if you need.

Sadly, it is totally true. I had no idea FMLA was as limited as it was.
I mean, I knew these things were in there for small businesses, where holding a position for 12 weeks would be a hardship. I just never considered where I worked to fall into that until I looked into using FMLA. 

I actually have to file different paperwork to get unpaid leave than people in the other offices do for FMLA, because my leave is NOT FMLA. (And like I said- I only get 6 weeks, what the company allows for unpaid leave, not up to 12.)

For me, it's the miles thing- we are not a separate company. The closest office to us is 200 miles.

Damn, sorry. 

[RunHappy]

Yes it is really screwed up.

FMLA is not "maternity leave" per se.  All FMLA does is protects your job with your employer for 12 weeks.  Meaning if you qualify for FMLA (more than 40% of the workforce do not qualify) then your employer cannot fire or replace you for up to 12 weeks after having a baby (or other FMLA categories).  FMLA is also 100% unpaid.

If you are lucky enough to have a corporate maternity leave then that is just a bonus, but the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. 

For example, my company short-term disability policy is 60% of my pay for 6 weeks for a vaginal birth and 8 weeks for a cesarean birth, but I MIGHT be eligible for 12 weeks if I have a medical reason (by a doctor) to extend up to 12 weeks.  If there is no medical reason then anything after 6 weeks Day 1 is unpaid. 

In order to be 100% protected by FMLA I must return to work on Week 12 Day 1.  If I do not then my job is no longer protected.  'MERICA!

Edit:  I found this out early on, so I saved up 3 weeks of vacation, which I plan to take at the beginning, so I will get 100% pay for 3 weeks, then apply for STD which means 6 weeks at 60% pay, then have 3 weeks 100% unpaid.

My SO is considering taking 12 weeks FMLA when I go back to work so he can have some bonding time, but we are still talking about that.  It wouldn't save us any money and would actually cut out earnings significantly, but that is 12 weeks of bonding he would have.

[partgypsy]

FMLA stipulates that you cannot be fired for getting pregnant, and allows you up to 12 weeks (unpaid) leave without getting fired for being away from your job. That's all it does.

For my first one, they decided that I couldn't use any of my accrued leave I accrued as a post-doc (why even have me fill out time cards if you are not even going to look at them?). but I had accrued some time at the next job.
I took 8 weeks off.  So I arranged my time to be reduced to 36 hours a week, and using a combination of accrued SL and advanced SL to pay for that cost. According to them at the time, I would not have health insurance if I was not being paid during that time, which I'm not sure was correct.

the following 2 months after coming back I arranged a 36 hr a week schedule to re-acclimate, but my boss was being so bad about the whole situation I ended up working 40 hours a week anyways in order to appease her.

That is not entirely correct.  And the choice to allow you your accrued leave as a post doc depends on your state law.

I looked it up. Apparently the institution I worked, they had no formal agreements, but traditionally post-docs were paid out for unused AL when ending their term (no one told me this, and I didn't get anything). Now it is use it or lose it. Also the institution now has 3 weeks paid maternity leave for regular employees. I am glad however they finally have clear written formal work policies for both post-docs and regular associates, because when I worked there is was like pulling teeth to find out anything (one person would say one thing, another would say something different, nothing in writing, etc).

[Guses]

Yes it is really screwed up.

FMLA is not "maternity leave" per se.  All FMLA does is protects your job with your employer for 12 weeks.  Meaning if you qualify for FMLA (more than 40% of the workforce do not qualify) then your employer cannot fire or replace you for up to 12 weeks after having a baby (or other FMLA categories).  FMLA is also 100% unpaid.

If you are lucky enough to have a corporate maternity leave then that is just a bonus, but the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. 

For example, my company short-term disability policy is 60% of my pay for 6 weeks for a vaginal birth and 8 weeks for a cesarean birth, but I MIGHT be eligible for 12 weeks if I have a medical reason (by a doctor) to extend up to 12 weeks.  If there is no medical reason then anything after 6 weeks Day 1 is unpaid. 

In order to be 100% protected by FMLA I must return to work on Week 12 Day 1.  If I do not then my job is no longer protected.  'MERICA!

Edit:  I found this out early on, so I saved up 3 weeks of vacation, which I plan to take at the beginning, so I will get 100% pay for 3 weeks, then apply for STD which means 6 weeks at 60% pay, then have 3 weeks 100% unpaid.

My SO is considering taking 12 weeks FMLA when I go back to work so he can have some bonding time, but we are still talking about that.  It wouldn't save us any money and would actually cut out earnings significantly, but that is 12 weeks of bonding he would have.

This thread makes me so glad about our social policies in Canada. I will try to remember this next time I think of complaining about our high taxes.

Around here, mamas' get up to 52 weeks ( a certain number at 70ish % and the rest at 50ish % of your salary) with many employers topping up to full or almost full salary. Papas' even get 5 weeks (70%) and are able to share some of the weeks that the mamas are entitled to.

Oh and, where I work, parents can take up to five years unpaid leave in order to raise their kids. Your substantive position is only guaranteed  for a certain amount of time, but you are guaranteed a similar position for the 5 years.

Makes me glad that we value human life.

[mm1970]

It depends on your state.

I am in California, so I am entitled to more than 12 weeks.  I'll go in to that if anyone needs to know it.

But yes.  FMLA is guaranteed time off, and it can be used up to 12 months after the baby is born if your company is the right size.  Also depends on how long you've worked there.  I had a former (male) coworker who wanted to take it, but hadn't been working there long enough when his baby was born.  So he waited until the end of the year to take it.

And if you work for the same company, you get 12 weeks combined.

Thus, what you will want to do is work until the baby is born, if at all possible.
And then, your spouse will want to take time off too. 
I recommend something like a week after the baby is born, then a week or two after you go back to work.  (Many childcares will not take children under 3 months, but then 3 months is 13 weeks, not 12 weeks, KWIM?)

Also be aware that you may be required to use all of your accumulated sick and vacation time.

With my first child, company #1 - they had paid maternity but I used CA disability instead.  However there is a one week waiting period, during which I took sick leave.  I ended up with 13.5 weeks off, but was entitled to 22 (4 before and 18 after, due to California law).

With my second child, company #2 - they required me to use accumulated vacation time before collecting disability.  This made the paperwork very difficult - and in fact, I did not get a disability check until after I was back at work 11 weeks later.  I managed to keep one week of vacation (out of 3) - because what do you do if you need time off or get sick! 

Be aware of that too - if HR requires you to use your vacation concurrent with FMLA, then I'd use it up first.  Because being home with a baby ain't vacation.

[I'm a red panda]

Be aware of that too - if HR requires you to use your vacation concurrent with FMLA, then I'd use it up first.  Because being home with a baby ain't vacation.

Unless of course you need to be paid during your FMLA and are not otherwise entitled to short term disability or something that would cause you to be paid.

But yeah- if you have a way to get paid during the FMLA time; use your vacation before FMLA.

[justajane]

Oh and, where I work, parents can take up to five years unpaid leave in order to raise their kids. Your substantive position is only guaranteed  for a certain amount of time, but you are guaranteed a similar position for the 5 years.

Makes me glad that we value human life.

This is awesome, but just b/c such a thing is offered doesn't mean that workers can avail themselves of it w/o prejudice. I know that even though Europe has better maternity leave doesn't mean that women don't feel pressured to come back sooner than they are legally allowed.

Still, I'd like the options here in the US.

[EAL]

Maternity leave is part of the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA). You're lucky they're paying you for 6 weeks of it. My agency would never do that. Legally you are required to be able to return to your job after 3 months and they have to give you that long. They do not however have to legally pay you for any of it.

[Gin1984]

It depends on your state.

I am in California, so I am entitled to more than 12 weeks.  I'll go in to that if anyone needs to know it.

But yes.  FMLA is guaranteed time off, and it can be used up to 12 months after the baby is born if your company is the right size.  Also depends on how long you've worked there.  I had a former (male) coworker who wanted to take it, but hadn't been working there long enough when his baby was born.  So he waited until the end of the year to take it.

And if you work for the same company, you get 12 weeks combined.

Thus, what you will want to do is work until the baby is born, if at all possible.
And then, your spouse will want to take time off too. 
I recommend something like a week after the baby is born, then a week or two after you go back to work.  (Many childcares will not take children under 3 months, but then 3 months is 13 weeks, not 12 weeks, KWIM?)

Also be aware that you may be required to use all of your accumulated sick and vacation time.

With my first child, company #1 - they had paid maternity but I used CA disability instead.  However there is a one week waiting period, during which I took sick leave.  I ended up with 13.5 weeks off, but was entitled to 22 (4 before and 18 after, due to California law).

With my second child, company #2 - they required me to use accumulated vacation time before collecting disability.  This made the paperwork very difficult - and in fact, I did not get a disability check until after I was back at work 11 weeks later.  I managed to keep one week of vacation (out of 3) - because what do you do if you need time off or get sick! 

Be aware of that too - if HR requires you to use your vacation concurrent with FMLA, then I'd use it up first.  Because being home with a baby ain't vacation.

In my city, most daycares take kids as young as six weeks, a few are eight weeks.  I've never seen any that start at three months.  My bet is that is an effect on the California law that gives you more time.

[NumberJohnny5]

My wife is an L&D nurse. With our first son, she wanted to take off the maximum amount of time. FMLA is 12 weeks, but Tennessee gives you four months (I know, Tennessee being progressive, who knew?).

HR turned the four months into 16 weeks. Absolutely could not get more than 16 weeks (four months is over 17 weeks, fyi). Also, FMLA (and Tennessee's version) does NOT have to be taken all at once, nor does it HAVE to start the day the baby is born.

Seeing as how she worked at a hospital, and delivered at a different hospital that was part of the same network, her manager was able to check the records at the other hospital and see when my wife was admitted as a patient (simply looking at a list of names is not recorded, looking at their files would be, though for all we know they may have looked in her files). We know because she did not tell a single one of her coworkers when our baby was born, and a congrats package (think it was some flowers) was delivered from her work. I know many will think "ahh, that's nice" but it was more like "we know you had your baby, so your FMLA starts now."  She was technically on vacation at the time, due date was the next week which was when leave was scheduled to start. Of course they moved it back a week.

I know, it's not THAT big a deal, it's only two weeks. That's kinda the point though, they fought to keep her from getting those two weeks. You could tell this just wasn't a normal thing, taking off the maximum time allowed after the birth of a baby.

Australia is like night and day. I don't know the cut-off, but if you work past a certain week during pregnancy, you have to have a doctor's note (wife worked up to a few days before our first son was born in TN, no note needed). The Australian government pays you 18 weeks at minimum wage (which was $17-something I think). Her work also had 10 weeks maternity pay at her average salary. It was not unusual at all to take off a year. My wife could even extend it another year if she wanted (she did by a few months).

And I haven't even gotten into costs. Around $100 for the entire pregnancy, and that was for one uncovered test (which we might have been eligible for a rebate, but we were still new to the whole system). She was in the hospital for about a month. Great care. Probably didn't hurt that she was a midwife there, but still.

[Elle 8]

Edit:  I found this out early on, so I saved up 3 weeks of vacation, which I plan to take at the beginning, so I will get 100% pay for 3 weeks, then apply for STD which means 6 weeks at 60% pay, then have 3 weeks 100% unpaid.

It sounds like you plan on taking vacation for weeks 1-3, then disability for weeks 4-9.  You'd better check your STD coverage.  My understanding is that if you are no longer 'disabled' after the sixth week, disability will not be paid after that point.  With an uncomplicated vaginal birth you are only considered disabled for six weeks so you may not be eligible for disability after that.  Also, many plans have a waiting period before disability even kicks in.  For example, where I work it's one week.  So the scenario would be:  Week one - accrued sick or vacation, weeks 2-6 - disability, weeks 7-12 - accrued sick or vacation, or unpaid if I don't have enough.

[forummm]

FMLA is 12 weeks, but Tennessee gives you four months (I know, Tennessee being progressive, who knew?).

HR turned the four months into 16 weeks. Absolutely could not get more than 16 weeks (four months is over 17 weeks, fyi).

I bet HR people also think that the 40 week pregnancy is 10 months. I've had people actually argue that with me.

[FIRE me]

HR turned the four months into 16 weeks. Absolutely could not get more than 16 weeks (four months is over 17 weeks, fyi). Also, FMLA (and Tennessee's version) does NOT have to be taken all at once, nor does it HAVE to start the day the baby is born.

True for the medical portion of child birth, but the company is not required to give intermittent FMLA leave for baby bonding time. FMLA baby bonding time can be required to be taken in a continuous block, with it going away the first day you return to work.

[Gin1984]

HR turned the four months into 16 weeks. Absolutely could not get more than 16 weeks (four months is over 17 weeks, fyi). Also, FMLA (and Tennessee's version) does NOT have to be taken all at once, nor does it HAVE to start the day the baby is born.

True for the medical portion of child birth, but the company is not required to give intermittent FMLA leave for baby bonding time. FMLA baby bonding time can be required to be taken in a continuous block, with it going away the first day you return to work.

Cite please

[NumberJohnny5]

HR turned the four months into 16 weeks. Absolutely could not get more than 16 weeks (four months is over 17 weeks, fyi). Also, FMLA (and Tennessee's version) does NOT have to be taken all at once, nor does it HAVE to start the day the baby is born.

True for the medical portion of child birth, but the company is not required to give intermittent FMLA leave for baby bonding time. FMLA baby bonding time can be required to be taken in a continuous block, with it going away the first day you return to work.

Cite please

Found it.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/fmla/employeeguide.pdf

You may take FMLA leave for the birth of a child and to bond with the newborn child, or for the placement of a child for adoption or foster care and to bond with that child. Men and women have the same right to take FMLA leave to bond with their child but it must be taken within one year of the child’s birth or placement and must  be taken as a continuous block of leave unless the employer agrees  to allow intermittent leave (for example, a part-time schedule)."

For those asking about insurance:

If you take FMLA leave, your employer must continue your health insurance as if you were not on leave (you may be required to continue to make any normal employee contributions).

Tennessee's law:

http://www.tn.gov/sos/acts/104/pub/pc0224.pdf

You are allowed to take FMLA up to one year after the birth of your child. Tennessee's code does say that the four month (not 16 weeks!) period starts the day you gain custody of a child if it's an adoption, says nothing about a regular birth. One can argue the intent was to start leave once the child is in your care. Nevertheless, it's kinda crappy to take away a week of paid vacation because the baby was born a week early, look up an employee's hospital records (whether for proof of admission, or actually looking in the file) without permission, and argue that HR's policy is 16 weeks and that's the final word.

Just par for the course back in Tennessee.

[Gin1984]

NumberJohnny, thanks for the cite.  I could not find myself.  Useful to know because my husband and I had planned to part time it during the leave.  Now to tell him.  Again thanks.  :)
Also, if HIPAA was around when your wife gave birth, wow illegal too.  What a nice employer. Ick

[HappyCheesehead]

I have been told that my paid maternity leave (6 weeks) will be counted as part of family and medical leave (12 weeks). That is, if I take 6-week maternity leave in September, I will only have 6 weeks FML left for after the baby is born.

In my experience, you would need a medical reason that you could not work to be off for 6 weeks in September (as the baby would not even be born yet) to qualify for the FMLA protection.  When the baby did come in November you would only have 6 weeks remaining FMLA. 

Note that the FMLA is per calendar year and that you should have another 12 weeks FMLA protection starting 1/1/2016.  You could take any part of that as bonding time before the baby turns one. 

[NumberJohnny5]

Note that the FMLA is per calendar year and that you should have another 12 weeks FMLA protection starting 1/1/2016.  You could take any part of that as bonding time before the baby turns one.

Per the link above:

A definition of the 12-month period the employer uses to keep track of FMLA usage. It can be a calendar year, 12 months from the first time you take leave, a fixed year such as your anniversary date, or a rolling 12-month period measured backward from the date you use FMLA leave. You need to know which way your employer measures the 12-month window so that you can be sure of how much FMLA leave you have available when you need it.

So check with your employer. Try to get it in writing, in case they "forget" that they told you calendar year but really meant a rolling 12-month window.

[Goldielocks]

Yes it is really screwed up.

FMLA is not "maternity leave" per se.  All FMLA does is protects your job with your employer for 12 weeks.  Meaning if you qualify for FMLA (more than 40% of the workforce do not qualify) then your employer cannot fire or replace you for up to 12 weeks after having a baby (or other FMLA categories).  FMLA is also 100% unpaid.

If you are lucky enough to have a corporate maternity leave then that is just a bonus, but the two have absolutely nothing to do with each other. 

For example, my company short-term disability policy is 60% of my pay for 6 weeks for a vaginal birth and 8 weeks for a cesarean birth, but I MIGHT be eligible for 12 weeks if I have a medical reason (by a doctor) to extend up to 12 weeks.  If there is no medical reason then anything after 6 weeks Day 1 is unpaid. 

In order to be 100% protected by FMLA I must return to work on Week 12 Day 1.  If I do not then my job is no longer protected.  'MERICA!

Edit:  I found this out early on, so I saved up 3 weeks of vacation, which I plan to take at the beginning, so I will get 100% pay for 3 weeks, then apply for STD which means 6 weeks at 60% pay, then have 3 weeks 100% unpaid.

My SO is considering taking 12 weeks FMLA when I go back to work so he can have some bonding time, but we are still talking about that.  It wouldn't save us any money and would actually cut out earnings significantly, but that is 12 weeks of bonding he would have.

This thread makes me so glad about our social policies in Canada. I will try to remember this next time I think of complaining about our high taxes.

Around here, mamas' get up to 52 weeks ( a certain number at 70ish % and the rest at 50ish % of your salary) with many employers topping up to full or almost full salary. Papas' even get 5 weeks (70%) and are able to share some of the weeks that the mamas are entitled to.

Oh and, where I work, parents can take up to five years unpaid leave in order to raise their kids. Your substantive position is only guaranteed  for a certain amount of time, but you are guaranteed a similar position for the 5 years.

Makes me glad that we value human life.

You are mixing together your company policy and govt policy.

In Canada, it is like FMLA rules for the USA except
1. 52 weeks instead of 12.  Moved up from 16 weeks in the 90s to 6 months, then to 1 year in 2001 or so.
2. A portion immediately after birth can be for mom only but the majority of time can be mom or dad as of 2001.
3. You can claim reduced EI during this time, subject to EI eligibility rules like enough service paid into it, and the payout maxes out at just under 2k per month.  Used to be 50% of salary up to 2k per month.  A little more right after birth if you qualified for disability claim.
4. It is taxed and you may need to pay a portion back depending on other employment during tax year.  They seem to have solved most overlap problems, so this is not common for mat leave.
,5 oh and no 50 employee rule... That one really sucks for the US.

It is just a promise not to get fired, and allows reduced EI claims.  I know my benefits were self paid to maintain them, no pay from employer, and I worked for a fortune 50 employer.


At the the time of my leave, I was our primary income at $60k per year, so dropping to a rate of 22k was hard to do, and I returned to work after 4 and 7 months..( 2 kids). At my next place of work, I realized how many women did not qualify for EI, so the pay is not universal.  Those that are struggling to have FT work may have already used up EI in the past and are still building credits.

[hopetogetfi]

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post. This is very helpful. I am amazed at how many interpretations of the law are possible. According to our HR manager, FML can be taken once per 12-month period. Also, I can start maternity leave as early as 60 days before giving birth and up to 75 days after the birth of my baby. The days must run consecutively. I do not qualify and have no vacation days. But I have a lot sick time accumulated, enough to cover 150 work days. I cannot use it unless there is a medical reason. Again, thanks for the information and for your advice!

[Guses]

You are mixing together your company policy and govt policy.

In Canada, it is like FMLA rules for the USA except
1. 52 weeks instead of 12.  Moved up from 16 weeks in the 90s to 6 months, then to 1 year in 2001 or so.
2. A portion immediately after birth can be for mom only but the majority of time can be mom or dad as of 2001.
3. You can claim reduced EI during this time, subject to EI eligibility rules like enough service paid into it, and the payout maxes out at just under 2k per month.  Used to be 50% of salary up to 2k per month.  A little more right after birth if you qualified for disability claim.
4. It is taxed and you may need to pay a portion back depending on other employment during tax year.  They seem to have solved most overlap problems, so this is not common for mat leave.
,5 oh and no 50 employee rule... That one really sucks for the US.

It is just a promise not to get fired, and allows reduced EI claims.  I know my benefits were self paid to maintain them, no pay from employer, and I worked for a fortune 50 employer.


At the the time of my leave, I was our primary income at $60k per year, so dropping to a rate of 22k was hard to do, and I returned to work after 4 and 7 months..( 2 kids). At my next place of work, I realized how many women did not qualify for EI, so the pay is not universal.  Those that are struggling to have FT work may have already used up EI in the past and are still building credits.

Goldie, it depends in which province you reside in. In QC, the plan is not exactly the same and replaces income at 70%, 75% or 55% depending on which plan you take up to a maximum of 70,000$ in income.

With an income of around 75,000$, my wife still got pretty close to that amount while on mat leave. Arguably, 20-40% of that amount was due to workplace top-up, but it was not a hardship at all.

[HappyCheesehead]

am asking because my experience was different during my first pregnancy a few years ago. Thanks!

I was amazed as well by all the different ways FMLA could be administered and the various state laws.  In my company (we had offices in 19 states) sometimes we used the rule of the most lenient state for all of our employees countrywide and sometimes there were state exceptions/rules  that only applied to the employees in that state. It was very confusing for employees and while pregnancy is a leave that can be planned for, sometimes there were urgent medical situations that came out of nowhere.  Those employees had to try to figure out the whole FMLA thing and get the documents in at the very time they were dealing with very serious medical issues.

I am glad this is a happy medical issue for you and wish you the very best in your upcoming delivery!

[Goldielocks]

You are mixing together your company policy and govt policy.

In Canada, it is like FMLA rules for the USA except
1. 52 weeks instead of 12.  Moved up from 16 weeks in the 90s to 6 months, then to 1 year in 2001 or so.
2. A portion immediately after birth can be for mom only but the majority of time can be mom or dad as of 2001.
3. You can claim reduced EI during this time, subject to EI eligibility rules like enough service paid into it, and the payout maxes out at just under 2k per month.  Used to be 50% of salary up to 2k per month.  A little more right after birth if you qualified for disability claim.
4. It is taxed and you may need to pay a portion back depending on other employment during tax year.  They seem to have solved most overlap problems, so this is not common for mat leave.
,5 oh and no 50 employee rule... That one really sucks for the US.

It is just a promise not to get fired, and allows reduced EI claims.  I know my benefits were self paid to maintain them, no pay from employer, and I worked for a fortune 50 employer.


At the the time of my leave, I was our primary income at $60k per year, so dropping to a rate of 22k was hard to do, and I returned to work after 4 and 7 months..( 2 kids). At my next place of work, I realized how many women did not qualify for EI, so the pay is not universal.  Those that are struggling to have FT work may have already used up EI in the past and are still building credits.

Goldie, it depends in which province you reside in. In QC, the plan is not exactly the same and replaces income at 70%, 75% or 55% depending on which plan you take up to a maximum of 70,000$ in income.

With an income of around 75,000$, my wife still got pretty close to that amount while on mat leave. Arguably, 20-40% of that amount was due to workplace top-up, but it was not a hardship at all.

Good point.  QC has its separate tax and benefit systems.  I was misled by the reference to Canada, when you meant the province with an independent system.

[nvmama]

I'm currently going through this now.  I just had a baby on the 5th.  The company I work for in Massachusetts I get 12 weeks of FMLA, the first 6 of which is sh0rt term disability.  I worked until the baby was delivered.  The first week of disability comes out of my Paid time off.  The next 5 I get 60% pay from the disability company, and the other 40% comes from my paid time off.  I don't have to do this, but using this time will over my cost of insurance and my flex spending account. (If I chose not to use PTO then I would have to send in a check to my employer for my portion of insurance and flex spending account.)  At my agency STD and FMLA run concurrently, so after disability ends I have 6 weeks left of FMLA.  I am allowed to be out a total of 12 weeks.  We do not have to use our PTO during FLMA, but using some of it to cover insurance and such.  I am choosing to use my PTO so I can continue to get paid while out.  I will use up most of my time, except about 10 hours which I plan to save in case of an emergency.  I figured that will be enough for now as I accrue 10 hours every 2 weeks.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Another limitation--if you and your spouse have the same employer, you have to share those 12 weeks. (For parental leave, at least.) You only each get your own if you have different employers. (Mr. FP first started trying to start a family when we worked at the same place.)

[gatortator]

Also depends on how long you've worked there. 

Just wanted to emphasize this for others, since it did affect me when I was pregnant.  I interviewed at 3mths pregnant and had to have maternity leave (12weeks) written into my offer package to ensure I would get it.  I had no pushback from HR or my  boss though and went on leave without issue.

[CanuckExpat]

For those readers outside the US, Oman, and Papua New Guinea, who can't understand what's going on in this thread, the US is one of the three countries in the world that does not provide any paid maternity leave.

I was amazed as well by all the different ways FMLA could be administered and the various state laws.

The "only developed country without paid maternity leave" or such statement is popular, but lacks nuance. The federal government defers to the states to provide protections and benefits on top of FMLA.

About half the states expand FMLA, with three states doing so in terms of paid maternity/paternity leave

[KCM5]

I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post. This is very helpful. I am amazed at how many interpretations of the law are possible. According to our HR manager, FML can be taken once per 12-month period. Also, I can start maternity leave as early as 60 days before giving birth and up to 75 days after the birth of my baby. The days must run consecutively. I do not qualify and have no vacation days. But I have a lot sick time accumulated, enough to cover 150 work days. I cannot use it unless there is a medical reason. Again, thanks for the information and for your advice!

Regarding the medical reason to use your sick leave - ask your doctor, they'll probably write you a note that says you have a medical reason for sick leave for about 6 weeks. This 6 weeks is written into our labor contract, but most doctors will accept that new mothers need 6 weeks to recover from labor/childbirth.

edited for incorrect use of the possessive.

[I'm a red panda]

The "only developed country without paid maternity leave" or such statement is popular, but lacks nuance. The federal government defers to the states to provide protections and benefits on top of FMLA.

About half the states expand FMLA, with three states doing so in terms of paid maternity/paternity leave

It doesn't lack nuance. The country doesn't have paid maternity leave. 3 states do. Doesn't do much to help those in the other 47.

As for "expanded FMLA" - all that does is broaden the definition a bit so that more people are eligible for unpaid time.  Because right now a huge percentage of the workforce doesn't even get THAT protection. They just have to hope their company is benevolent enough that they won't lose their jobs. (NPR reports 40% of workers not being covered by FMLA- and it sounds like that includes expanded definitions, though I am not sure.)

[RunHappy]

I have been told that my paid maternity leave (6 weeks) will be counted as part of family and medical leave (12 weeks). That is, if I take 6-week maternity leave in September, I will only have 6 weeks FML left for after the baby is born.

In my experience, you would need a medical reason that you could not work to be off for 6 weeks in September (as the baby would not even be born yet) to qualify for the FMLA protection.  When the baby did come in November you would only have 6 weeks remaining FMLA. 

Note that the FMLA is per calendar year and that you should have another 12 weeks FMLA protection starting 1/1/2016.  You could take any part of that as bonding time before the baby turns one.

good point.  I will ask about the vacation time.  Financially we are more than ok to be without pay for the entire time as I always plan for worst case scenario, it is almost the principle of the matter that irks me more.

I don't think I could be gone for 24 weeks and still maintain my "expert" status in my field.  I work in a highly competitive, fast-changing technology field (which I love) where taking 6 months off is akin to 5 years off.  It already allows me to work from home, set my own hours, so I will be able to hire a nanny to take care of baby while I work, but still take many breaks throughout the day to nurse and be present.  Best of both worlds in my opinion.