Is learning your hobby?

[Trudie]

I'm about 3-5 years out from FIRE and the investments are basically on auto-pilot.  For the last year I have spent lots of time reading and grappling with what it is I want to "retire to" rather than what I am retiring "from."  Last night, while attending an engaging philosophy lecture on the college campus where my husband works, a lot of the themes resonated with me.  I left thinking that at 45 I'm not DONE yet.  I may not want or need to work in a few years, but I felt this light go off about how I'd love to be a student again.  And I realize I can do that without spending lots of money.

This is what I know about myself:  When I'm studying a subject I enjoy -- whether that's kitchen gardens, my family history, the political history of Ireland -- I can become fully-engaged and really lose myself in it.  I am just geared this way and always have been.  I have distinct childhood memories of loving research projects, being kind of counter-cultural (at the time) by reading books my peers weren't into (James Baldwin).  My family has a long line of public school teachers, although I was self-aware enough to realize I don't really have the temperament to be a classroom teacher.  But, with that said, I would have absolutely relished the social studies teacher curriculum.  If it didn't cost thousands of bucks I'd enroll in a social foundations of education grad program tomorrow if I could.  But instead, I'll just pursue the learning on my own -- for free.

I've been beating myself up a bit that I need to have a "cause" that I really care about in ER.  But a lot of these "jobs" just don't thrill me.  Working with troubled youth?  Not a good fit.  Reading kids' books at the library?  Naw.  Doing accounting work for a NFP (I'm a CPA) doesn't thrill me.  (I guess I'd rather just go to work for a NFP and make some money for it rather than volunteer my time.)   Yet, I firmly believe that a person should strive to live in community and harmony with others, I'm accepting the fact that maybe my first priority will be to just pursue learning and teaching about things I enjoy.  I am convinced that I can be passionate about that.  My favorite volunteer jobs in the past have been when I've been teaching something (gardening techniques; social justice issues at my church).

I do think that learning and discussion is best done in community.  While online MOOCs and discussion boards are great, I also want to engage with others.  I think the social connection is important.  I've had to get over the idea that if I'm not working for money that I need to be doing volunteer stuff that "saves" the world and that in some ways learning and teaching don't do this -- almost as if they're decadent.  I no longer believe this for reasons I won't elaborate on (to save this from further rambling).

My husband and I plan to relocate to a small university town of 60,000 close to where he grew up.  It offers a great public library, a land grand research university, access to a lifelong learning institute, and lots of other "perks" to facilitate a low-cost learning opportunities.  He has a Ph.D. in education and shares many of the same values so I think many of our plans are in sync.

Does anyone else feel this way about learning?  Intend to make it your FIRE vocation?  I'm interested in others' thoughts.

[MonkeyJenga]

Yup! I binge read books and articles on particular subjects, gain a base level of knowledge, then move onto the next subject. I will also not be saving the world in retirement.

[Northwestie]

  My favorite volunteer jobs in the past have been when I've been teaching something (gardening techniques; social justice issues at my church).

I do think that learning and discussion is best done in community.  While online MOOCs and discussion boards are great, I also want to engage with others.  I think the social connection is important.  I've had to get over the idea that if I'm not working for money that I need to be doing volunteer stuff that "saves" the world and that in some ways learning and teaching don't do this -- almost as if they're decadent.  I no longer believe this for reasons I won't elaborate on (to save this from further rambling).

Well good for you for being quite reflective about all this - and you seem to have a good grasp of what you like to do.  So maybe continuing with teaching periodically and then stepping back from it to learn more about whatever subject you are into at the time.  It seems maybe the teaching thing with kids isn't for you(?) or I might otherwise suggest being a teacher's aid part time, which is much less of a commitment that a standard teaching job.  Good luck - seems you're on a good track.

[DollarBill]

I've found myself thinking about the same thing. I don't need the money so I'll basically be trading my time for an Intrinsic reward. I'm someone who never put a lot of effort into fostering relationships. So I really think of activities where I would have a nice rotation of new people to meet and have time to talk to them. The hard part is to find something that is flexible and not a high commitment level...I like my time. But if the right thing came along I'd dive right in.

[Trudie]

It seems maybe the teaching thing with kids isn't for you(?) or I might otherwise suggest being a teacher's aid part time, which is much less of a commitment that a standard teaching job.  Good luck - seems you're on a good track.

Correct.  I'm not interested in "classroom management" or "discipline."  I have zero interest in being a general classroom aide although could see myself volunteering to teach lessons on subject matter I very much enjoy -- like vegetable gardening.   I very much believe in life-long learning and I like engaging with other adults (the classroom is good structure for those of us who are introverts).  I do enjoy good conversation, discussing world issues, etcetera.

[FrugalShrew]

I love to learn, too! I think colleges often have policies allowing teachers and their family members to take free classes, so one of my ideas for FIRE (when it eventually comes) is to see if I could become an adjunct at a university and teach 1 class, and then take classes at the university. I know, nerdiest FIRE dream of all time :)

[Northwestie]

It seems maybe the teaching thing with kids isn't for you(?) or I might otherwise suggest being a teacher's aid part time, which is much less of a commitment that a standard teaching job.  Good luck - seems you're on a good track.

Correct.  I'm not interested in "classroom management" or "discipline."  I have zero interest in being a general classroom aide although could see myself volunteering to teach lessons on subject matter I very much enjoy -- like vegetable gardening.   I very much believe in life-long learning and I like engaging with other adults (the classroom is good structure for those of us who are introverts).  I do enjoy good conversation, discussing world issues, etcetera.

One item I forgot to mention is looking at teaching opportunities at the local community college continuing education program.  I've taken some local classes and if I had more time (will soon!) I would investigate more.  These are usually short duration from one evening to an evening a week for a couple months - and the variety of topics offered is broad.  Good luck.

[forummm]

Yeah. I yearn every day to not go to work and instead spend the time learning something that interests me. I plan to do a lot of reading and take lots of free online college courses. There are thousands available. Khan Academy. Coursera. Etc.

[Trudie]

I love to learn, too! I think colleges often have policies allowing teachers and their family members to take free classes, so one of my ideas for FIRE (when it eventually comes) is to see if I could become an adjunct at a university and teach 1 class, and then take classes at the university. I know, nerdiest FIRE dream of all time :)

Yes.   Many do.  My husband works at a college now and I could enroll free in most classes (depending on availability).  I would continue to get these benefits in retirement as well, although we will likely move to a larger town.  Our town now is small, a few hours from a major airport, geographically isolated, has no public transportation or public golf courses, and limited speciality health care -- things that are important to us as we age.  In many other ways it is a lovely town and has lots to offer, and we would have nice bennies in retirement... but not a few of the key things that we feel are necessary for us to age happily in place.

[Vanguards and Lentils]

Great topic. I'm currently in a math PhD program, but I've always thought that my true self is more of a dabbler. Lately I've been reading econ/finance books on the side, and I've also been learning programming from various sources: codecademy, codewars, and an algorithms course on coursera. What a time to be alive for someone who wants to learn about computers for fun.

I've always thought that I would feel productive if I filled my days with just learning random stuff, so this would probably work out for FIRE. Of course, a lot of subjects gets messy and difficult after pass the introductory/popular level, but if you don't like that you can always just move onto another one.

[FrugalShrew]

I love to learn, too! I think colleges often have policies allowing teachers and their family members to take free classes, so one of my ideas for FIRE (when it eventually comes) is to see if I could become an adjunct at a university and teach 1 class, and then take classes at the university. I know, nerdiest FIRE dream of all time :)

Yes.   Many do.  My husband works at a college now and I could enroll free in most classes (depending on availability).  I would continue to get these benefits in retirement as well, although we will likely move to a larger town.  Our town now is small, a few hours from a major airport, geographically isolated, has no public transportation or public golf courses, and limited speciality health care -- things that are important to us as we age.  In many other ways it is a lovely town and has lots to offer, and we would have nice bennies in retirement... but not a few of the key things that we feel are necessary for us to age happily in place.

I missed the part where you said your husband teaches at a college -- that's an even better way to get access to free college classes :) But I totally understand that such benefit by itself is not enough to merit staying somewhere, and it's great that you have such a clear vision of what your needs are with respect to an RE location. Is your husband planning to retire before you move? Maybe he wouldn't mind picking up a class at the university or a community college in your new town.

[Trudie]

My husband will retire before I do.  He's 54 now and actually hoping his uni will offer an early retirement package, but it's not certain.  Either way we will ER.  His is a professional/academic support position and doesn't teach now, but he has thought about being in a similar very part time job at the university we will move closer to.  So, we shall see.

The small town in which we live now has much to offer.  It is beautiful.  We can walk to the college campus.  It's a liberal arts school so there's a lot of focus on music, arts, and lectures.  We have free access to a full-service workout facility, including indoor track.  It is definitely the kind of place I can recommend to many people and there will be many aspects of it we miss.  But there are some experiences this place can never offer -- including closer proximity to our families -- that we feel are important.  Also, I feel like we will have more flexibility with our FIRE goals if we are in a more populated area.  For instance, easy access to good public transportation, local medical facilities with many more specialists, city services (including park and rec, public golf courses, AMAZING public library), and access to side hustle opportunities (should we want them) all make it a good move.  I like blending in a little more to.  I think that we would be on display here a bit and that many wouldn't understand our countercultural lifestyle.

I've even inventoried the educational/learning "assets" of the new town:
(1)  Extraordinary public library (which we've already "test run"), easily accessible on foot, by bike, car, or cheap public bus
(2)  Proximity to land grant/research university with lectures, performances, sporting events, lifelong learning institute, and academic library (which we can use at minimal cost)
(3)  As a land grant university it has extension-outreach education, which is a good resource for a person with my interests (gardening)
(4)  Top notch community college within 20 minutes (in my sibling's backyard) with a satellite campus in the town where we will live.  The CC offers extensive continuing education and low cost courses
(5)  Educated work force, including a large "creative class"
(6)  Our taxes would support many community (park and rec) services that we would use to pick up new skills, exercise.  This is just because there is a population and tax base large enough to support them.

Much of what is on this list is free, and what is not free would be very low cost to us.  My husband and I are both introverts, but not hermits.  We want to be able to engage with others and don't want to be isolated in FIRE.  Seeking out educational opportunities will help us transition to our new situation.  We can discover what we enjoy and who we like spending our time with.

[BigoteGato]

Great post! I've been worried I have no traditional "hobbies" - what will I do after FIRE? But I love to read and learn. Glad someone else also considering learning as a fulfilling after-FIRE activity. Sounds way better than golf to me...

[Wekeeprollingdowntheroad]

Kind of. We travel full time, and I like to see new things and find out about what I see. I think about myself a lot- why I do what I do, what my motivations are,could I be a better person etc but have almost zero interest in how things work. I was a very successful photographer for about 6 years before retiring from it and I still don't know much about the technical side of photography. I knew how to use it and that was all I cared about.  I used to read like a maniac as a kid(folks were very anyi tv/media)and as a young adult but haven't read a book in many years. I kind of think I already know everything that's important to know. Yeah I know how that sounds 😁

[wordnerd]

It seems maybe the teaching thing with kids isn't for you(?) or I might otherwise suggest being a teacher's aid part time, which is much less of a commitment that a standard teaching job.  Good luck - seems you're on a good track.

Correct.  I'm not interested in "classroom management" or "discipline."  I have zero interest in being a general classroom aide although could see myself volunteering to teach lessons on subject matter I very much enjoy -- like vegetable gardening.   I very much believe in life-long learning and I like engaging with other adults (the classroom is good structure for those of us who are introverts).  I do enjoy good conversation, discussing world issues, etcetera.

You might consider some non-traditional teaching venues. My dad worked for a large food bank, and they had a garden where they taught adults to garden and cook with the produce (they also taught parenting skills and other things; he managed the GED center). Sounds volunteering with something like that might be of interest.

[Trudie]

It seems maybe the teaching thing with kids isn't for you(?) or I might otherwise suggest being a teacher's aid part time, which is much less of a commitment that a standard teaching job.  Good luck - seems you're on a good track.

Correct.  I'm not interested in "classroom management" or "discipline."  I have zero interest in being a general classroom aide although could see myself volunteering to teach lessons on subject matter I very much enjoy -- like vegetable gardening.   I very much believe in life-long learning and I like engaging with other adults (the classroom is good structure for those of us who are introverts).  I do enjoy good conversation, discussing world issues, etcetera.

You might consider some non-traditional teaching venues. My dad worked for a large food bank, and they had a garden where they taught adults to garden and cook with the produce (they also taught parenting skills and other things; he managed the GED center). Sounds volunteering with something like that might be of interest.

I have thought of that.  I might enjoy being a docent at the state landscape arboretum.  Another thing I've considered is working with an already well established program that helps refugees establish market gardens.  Many are just becoming familiar with some of the crops grown here and many of them are also eager to grow the crops they are more familiar with.  The agency helps them market their products at the farmer's market and also wholesale to restaurants.  I'm an accountant and a gardener, so I think maybe I might have skills they could use.

[notarealdoctor]

This is a wonderful topic. I love to learn, and when I reach I FIRE I know that I'll have plenty of things to do (and books to read). I used to always say that I collect hobbies, but recently I've realized that in some ways my hobbies are a way for me to focus my curiosity and go deeper into different things. It's also been really helpful when I've gone through career transitions, like I am right now. Remembering how much I enjoy learning is always a source of encouragement as well as enjoyment because it means that I know I can adapt to the new things I might have to face.

[ender]

I spend way too much time online learning about things.

If I call it a hobby that makes me feel less bad about this obsession? :)

[notarealdoctor]

I spend way too much time online learning about things.

If I call it a hobby that makes me feel less bad about this obsession? :)

Haha, it all depends, right? My DW has been taking a career development facilitator class for the last year, and one part of it was using StrengthsQuest for making career choices, so she took it and bugged me until I took it too. Surprise, surprise, one of my strengths according to SQ is learning. Of course, I'm pretty sure strengths can turn against you, so obsessive learning might be counter-productive for your other goals, but if you enjoy it and it's not keeping you from other things in your life (and perhaps is helping you be better at them!), then maybe it's not a hobby but just who you are. :)

[Secretly Saving]

Yes! Meeee.  I've always said that I would be a permanent student if I could! 

[Trudie]

Check with your county extension about opportunities like this https://extension.umd.edu/mg

I'm a lapsed master gardener, but may take it up again when I RE.  I initially took the course when we relocated to the place we live now.  While my interests have changed and while I felt like I no longer fit the demographic of the group, I enjoyed the course and met some really great people at a time I needed to connect in a new place. 

In general, I'm a huge fan of university extension.  Lots of great (FREE) scientific advice.  I'm not sure many people know about extension and what it does, but it's a great resource -- especially for mustachian types.  Got a bug problem at your house?  Call extension for ideas.  Curious about what's causing your tree to wilt?  Snap a photo and send it to the tree clinic.  And so on and so on. 

[mrpercentage]

Yup! I binge read books and articles on particular subjects, gain a base level of knowledge, then move onto the next subject. I will also not be saving the world in retirement.

I do this. Jack of all trades and master of none

[Trudie]

From "The Once and Future King" - TH White

“The best thing for being sad," replied Merlin, beginning to puff and blow, "is to learn something. That's the only thing that never fails. You may grow old and trembling in your anatomies, you may lie awake at night listening to the disorder of your veins, you may miss your only love, you may see the world about you devastated by evil lunatics, or know your honour trampled in the sewers of baser minds. There is only one thing for it then — to learn. Learn why the world wags and what wags it. That is the only thing which the mind can never exhaust, never alienate, never be tortured by, never fear or distrust, and never dream of regretting. Learning is the only thing for you. Look what a lot of things there are to learn.”
― T.H. White, The Once and Future King