Is it possible to budget TOO HARD? UPDATE 12/11/15

[Bob W]

Adopt and old lady and I assure you 100% you will be on the path to happiness.   That and drink lots of vodka.  Life is too short to go through it sober.  (kidding)

I oddly enjoy this life advice.

Yeah, it works extremely well ---  I'm writing a self help book entitled "Adopt an Old Lady and Drink Lots of Vodka"   The title is pretty much the entire book.  I like to keep things simple and not over think.     There is no shortage of old ladies needing help or cheap vodka.  The only problem is that the ladies don't live as long as dogs generally.   If you're lucky you can find an old lady that will actually supply the vodka and it can pretty much be a free hobby as well as a great antidepressant.   And don't forget that old ladies have connections.  They typically have female grandkids that they will tell that you are the greatest person in the world.   

[patrickza]

To play devils advocate here. Could you keep up the triathlons on non-competitive equipment. I would imagine that like most sports, the second generation equipment is significantly cheaper than leading edge. I'd also imagine that the long term health benefits you get from competing could outweigh the costs of the sport in old age...

[Bracken_Joy]

Adopt and old lady and I assure you 100% you will be on the path to happiness.   That and drink lots of vodka.  Life is too short to go through it sober.  (kidding)

I oddly enjoy this life advice.

Yeah, it works extremely well ---  I'm writing a self help book entitled "Adopt an Old Lady and Drink Lots of Vodka"   The title is pretty much the entire book.  I like to keep things simple and not over think.     There is no shortage of old ladies needing help or cheap vodka.  The only problem is that the ladies don't live as long as dogs generally.   If you're lucky you can find an old lady that will actually supply the vodka and it can pretty much be a free hobby as well as a great antidepressant.   And don't forget that old ladies have connections.  They typically have female grandkids that they will tell that you are the greatest person in the world.

Does giving the vodka to the old lady improve the antidepressant effect?

[broketriathlete]

To play devils advocate here. Could you keep up the triathlons on non-competitive equipment. I would imagine that like most sports, the second generation equipment is significantly cheaper than leading edge. I'd also imagine that the long term health benefits you get from competing could outweigh the costs of the sport in old age...

That is a very good question and the answer is yes, and that's exactly what I'm going to do. Sell these over priced bikes to someone who thinks they "need" them and then buy a budget bike and continue to race. I don't need what I have in order to compete, that's for sure. As long as I don't train a million hours a day the health benefits are there. Prolonged hard training for years, from what I've read, can not be the best thing. As they say, all things in moderation. I wish I had done that with my materialistic purchases...LOL.

[golfreak12]

I do budget too hard.
Just 4 yrs ago, I was budgeting myself on $1500/month. That seems like a lot but when you're making ~60K, my friends often wonder why I'm so frugal.
When I got married 4 yrs ago, I figure our budget would be around $2500/month with the 2 of us but its more like $3000/month.
I can live poor but making my wife live like myself wouldn't be right.
I'm slowly getting my wife to adjust. She's not working right now as I'm helping her through school and she really sees the value of budgeting now.
My wife often ask me when we're out shopping. "How come we shop like we don't have money ??" I tell her I don't have the answer.
Its built in my brain to always question if I really need to buy this or not.

[broketriathlete]

I do budget too hard.
Just 4 yrs ago, I was budgeting myself on $1500/month. That seems like a lot but when you're making ~60K, my friends often wonder why I'm so frugal.
When I got married 4 yrs ago, I figure our budget would be around $2500/month with the 2 of us but its more like $3000/month.
I can live poor but making my wife live like myself wouldn't be right.
I'm slowly getting my wife to adjust. She's not working right now as I'm helping her through school and she really sees the value of budgeting now.
My wife often ask me when we're out shopping. "How come we shop like we don't have money ??" I tell her I don't have the answer.
Its built in my brain to always question if I really need to buy this or not.

I sort of feel like that's how I am with my GF. She makes $65 a year, but has around $100K in her 401 at age 27. She spends money, what I could consider frivolously, but I don't want her to live the way I do because that wouldn't be fair. She is noticing the changes I'm making and just the other day she asked me to help her with saving money, which was awesome to hear! I'll never press it on her even when we're married. I'm just hoping she'll adjust fully and we'll have the time of our lives when we're retired!

[choppingwood]

The only problem is that the ladies don't live as long as dogs generally.   

Statistically, old ladies tend to live to become really old ladies. So they probably do live as long as dogs.

Just want the book to be founded in fact.

[Merrie]

I found a quote from Amy Dacyczyn (of Tightwad Gazette fame) in which she said "Frugality without creativity is deprivation".

I think when we budget focusing on all the things we can't have, we can get really down in the dumps about it. Better to focus on what we can do. We almost never go out to eat anymore. I am having too much fun trying different foods at home for a fraction of the cost. We save money on gas by biking, but we are also really enjoying biking. And so on.

[broketriathlete]

I found a quote from Amy Dacyczyn (of Tightwad Gazette fame) in which she said "Frugality without creativity is deprivation".

I think when we budget focusing on all the things we can't have, we can get really down in the dumps about it. Better to focus on what we can do. We almost never go out to eat anymore. I am having too much fun trying different foods at home for a fraction of the cost. We save money on gas by biking, but we are also really enjoying biking. And so on.

I like that quote. It really does make a lot of sense and your solution also makes a lot of sense!

[DollarBill]

You seem to have an extreme type personality and your path reminds me a lot of myself. I've always been an all or nothing kind of person. Lucky for me that I've had the frugal bug early in life and seemed to keep my spending in check most of the time. Some things I do to keep it in check...like others say is to set aside money for fun (But I did this after I was completely debt free and struggling with frugal fatigue). 

I set up extra savings accounts like: Fun, Taxes/Insurance, Bills, Freedom/retirement, emergency, travel. It's automated to transfer after each paycheck. It really helped me because when it was all in one account then it would be painful to spend any money but now if something comes up I just check that fund and it's painless and as long as I'm staying within my budget then I'm happy. To help me track my spending I use one CC for just food/fuel/bills and another CC for any of the fun stuff (then use the award points to add to my travel). I didn't start doing this until I was about 37 but it did help me with balancing my life.

I still have the occasional mental struggle but it passes quickly. You're heading in the right direction and it gets easier with time. I retired at 40 and now I get a huge kick out of all those people driving past me in their clown cars on the way to work and I'm out improving my race times on a 15 yr old frame ;-).

[Faraday]

.....
I still have the occasional mental struggle but it passes quickly. You're heading in the right direction and it gets easier with time. I retired at 40 and now I get a huge kick out of all those people driving past me in their clown cars on the way to work and I'm out improving my race times on a 15 yr old frame ;-).

But...but...what about... "balance"!

har. Just kidding. Keep Being Profound, DB!

If that frame is lugged and made in the USA, it just gets better with time!

[broketriathlete]

You seem to have an extreme type personality and your path reminds me a lot of myself. I've always been an all or nothing kind of person. Lucky for me that I've had the frugal bug early in life and seemed to keep my spending in check most of the time. Some things I do to keep it in check...like others say is to set aside money for fun (But I did this after I was completely debt free and struggling with frugal fatigue). 

I set up extra savings accounts like: Fun, Taxes/Insurance, Bills, Freedom/retirement, emergency, travel. It's automated to transfer after each paycheck. It really helped me because when it was all in one account then it would be painful to spend any money but now if something comes up I just check that fund and it's painless and as long as I'm staying within my budget then I'm happy. To help me track my spending I use one CC for just food/fuel/bills and another CC for any of the fun stuff (then use the award points to add to my travel). I didn't start doing this until I was about 37 but it did help me with balancing my life.

I still have the occasional mental struggle but it passes quickly. You're heading in the right direction and it gets easier with time. I retired at 40 and now I get a huge kick out of all those people driving past me in their clown cars on the way to work and I'm out improving my race times on a 15 yr old frame ;-).

I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

[Faraday]

...
I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

Waidaminit, waidaminit. You are out of debt NOW? ALREADY?

Spill it, tell it all tell it all. You were IN DEBT at the beginning of this thread. What happened, how did you do it? (and if I missed it in the thread somehow, my bad...)

[Bracken_Joy]

...
I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

Waidaminit, waidaminit. You are out of debt NOW? ALREADY?

Spill it, tell it all tell it all. You were IN DEBT at the beginning of this thread. What happened, how did you do it? (and if I missed it in the thread somehow, my bad...)

"doing the same thing after I'm debt free"

??  Where did he say he is debt free now?

[Faraday]

...
I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

Waidaminit, waidaminit. You are out of debt NOW? ALREADY?

Spill it, tell it all tell it all. You were IN DEBT at the beginning of this thread. What happened, how did you do it? (and if I missed it in the thread somehow, my bad...)

"doing the same thing after I'm debt free"

??  Where did he say he is debt free now?

I boldfaced his words in my prior post. But maybe he's just playing fast and loose with present vs. past tense?

[DollarBill]

.....
I still have the occasional mental struggle but it passes quickly. You're heading in the right direction and it gets easier with time. I retired at 40 and now I get a huge kick out of all those people driving past me in their clown cars on the way to work and I'm out improving my race times on a 15 yr old frame ;-).

But...but...what about... "balance"!

har. Just kidding. Keep Being Profound, DB!

If that frame is lugged and made in the USA, it just gets better with time!

I'm not following on the balance part...lol went over my head! Neither are lugged. The Cannondale (Delta V-500) bought in 93ish and Trek bought in 02ish (Still sweet bikes in my eyes). I still ride the Delta V the most because I can beat on it. Just put about 150 miles on it while in Austin this past week.

[obstinate]

The problem you have here is that you have set up a false dichotomy. It is not necessary to sit at home to save money. Whether you sit at home and whether you are frugal are two totally unrelated questions. You can sit at home and spend a lot. You can go out and spend little.

There is no way, from what you have described, to know if you're budgeting "too hard". All I know is that you're sitting at home. How hard are you budgeting? What's your savings rate, how much are you spending per year?

[Faraday]

.....
I still have the occasional mental struggle but it passes quickly. You're heading in the right direction and it gets easier with time. I retired at 40 and now I get a huge kick out of all those people driving past me in their clown cars on the way to work and I'm out improving my race times on a 15 yr old frame ;-).

But...but...what about... "balance"!

har. Just kidding. Keep Being Profound, DB!

If that frame is lugged and made in the USA, it just gets better with time!

I'm not following on the balance part...lol went over my head! Neither are lugged. The Cannondale (Delta V-500) bought in 93ish and Trek bought in 02ish (Still sweet bikes in my eyes). I still ride the Delta V the most because I can beat on it. Just put about 150 miles on it while in Austin this past week.

My bad, DollarBill - it's a reference to several other threads where people conjure up the idea that you CAN save "too hard" and that there is some kind of "balance" between how much you save and how much you spend that has nothing to do with your personal financial situation but only relates to your frame of mind.

What's ridiculous about the comment is that we are all in an optimistic, badass race to FIRE, and every day we don't make progress, we are unhappy. I'm sure it never occurred to you that you should buy something stupid for yourself out of some sense of "balance"....instead, you went balls-to-the-wall and now you get to improve your race times instead of ride in a clown car.

+1 to everything you say about your sweet rides. I have a Trek 1220 road bike I dearly love and hope to ride till I'm dead. It's my fastest bike and the one I get the tremendous rush out of because it was a cheap bike but still superb quality.

My "heavy hauler" is a 2008 Schwinn World Adventure. Decked out to the nines with Alfine sealed hub, dynamo hub up front, B&M headlight, hydraulic disc brakes and all the braze-ons I could ever need. It's about 2mph slower than my 1220 but it's a hell of a touring bike and cost me $299 - it was a leftover they just needed to move so they dropped the price dramatically and I was in the right place at the right time.

The only thing that tempers my own frustration at not being FIRE is taking total satisfaction when other people make progress to FIRE or achieve it. So I love hearing stories and comments like yours.

[Bracken_Joy]

...
I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

Waidaminit, waidaminit. You are out of debt NOW? ALREADY?

Spill it, tell it all tell it all. You were IN DEBT at the beginning of this thread. What happened, how did you do it? (and if I missed it in the thread somehow, my bad...)

"doing the same thing after I'm debt free"

??  Where did he say he is debt free now?

I boldfaced his words in my prior post. But maybe he's just playing fast and loose with present vs. past tense?

Oh, I missed that. Thanks!

Okay, so either the OP is debt free or wrote that in an odd way. I'm curious too now- OP, are you debt free now??

[DollarBill]

My bad, DollarBill - it's a reference to several other threads where people conjure up the idea that you CAN save "too hard" and that there is some kind of "balance" between how much you save and how much you spend that has nothing to do with your personal financial situation but only relates to your frame of mind.

What's ridiculous about the comment is that we are all in an optimistic, badass race to FIRE, and every day we don't make progress, we are unhappy. I'm sure it never occurred to you that you should buy something stupid for yourself out of some sense of "balance"....instead, you went balls-to-the-wall and now you get to improve your race times instead of ride in a clown car.

Ok got it now :-)

[broketriathlete]

...
I definitely have the extreme personality! I plan on doing the same thing after I'm debt free and set aside some fun money (now that I don't have debt) and get a taxable account set up. Then I'll be well on my way. Each day the changes I've made sink in a little more and know that I'm heading to FI. One step at a time!! Haha that'll be the day. If I could retire in 9 years I'd be stoked. My goal is by 50. I think I can definitely do it by then!!

Waidaminit, waidaminit. You are out of debt NOW? ALREADY?

Spill it, tell it all tell it all. You were IN DEBT at the beginning of this thread. What happened, how did you do it? (and if I missed it in the thread somehow, my bad...)

"doing the same thing after I'm debt free"

??  Where did he say he is debt free now?

I boldfaced his words in my prior post. But maybe he's just playing fast and loose with present vs. past tense?

I was speaking from the point of being debt free in the future. :) I wish that was the case now!!! LOL

[Faraday]

I was speaking from the point of being debt free in the future. :) I wish that was the case now!!! LOL

I hear you loud and clear - gotcha. How's it going in the few short weeks you've "gotten the fever"? What can you tell us about at this point? Any particular debts paid? Anything working out "better" now that you are doing the frugal thing?

[broketriathlete]

It's going well actually my friend. I've paid $5K of the student loans off already so I'm already down below $20K ($19.5K), and already have 2 months saved ($3K) up in a separate account just for student loans. I want to continue to put $1500 each month towards them while simultaneously building up extra cash for it so down the line if I have a $5K balance I can just pay it off right then. The snowball is going well and I've started to find other things to do beside sit in the house and die of boredom...LOL. I'm going to start making some YouTube vids, started getting out and walking around the golf course, working from home on the computer, etc.

Still haven't sold those bikes. Apparently there are only a few idiots (I am raising my hand) that would spend that much on a bicycle...LOL. I am still kicking myself for doing that, but never again!

[Bracken_Joy]

It's going well actually my friend. I've paid $5K of the student loans off already so I'm already down below $20K ($19.5K), and already have 2 months saved ($3K) up in a separate account just for student loans. I want to continue to put $1500 each month towards them while simultaneously building up extra cash for it so down the line if I have a $5K balance I can just pay it off right then. The snowball is going well and I've started to find other things to do beside sit in the house and die of boredom...LOL. I'm going to start making some YouTube vids, started getting out and walking around the golf course, working from home on the computer, etc.

Still haven't sold those bikes. Apparently there are only a few idiots (I am raising my hand) that would spend that much on a bicycle...LOL. I am still kicking myself for doing that, but never again!

Love the update! Your "finding other things to do besides sit" reminds me of a "homework" a counselor once gave me. I had been so busy for so long with my professional program that I honestly couldn't remember what I used to do for fun, so I was just watching TV and sitting online. He told me to write a list of other things I could do or used to do as they occurred to me, so that I could consult as needed. At first I thought it was stupid (I'll just remember on my own!) but I found it to be very, very useful. Hmm, I need to make a new list. Don't know where my old one got to.

I like the youtube video idea. Are you making them about some skill you have, or is it more a Vlog idea?

[broketriathlete]

Thanks so much Joy! I feel like I'm still coming full circle but still have some work ahead of me. I can't wait, that's for sure! I'm looking forward to the time with I am doing some massive saving for something I want, investment I want to make, or a vacation I want to take, instead of for a student loan! There is light at the end of the tunnel!

As far as YouTube, there's a lots of things I'm going to do it on. Vlogs, how to's, and maybe down the road I can start making some finanacial advice videos for people who were in my shoes; lots of showy materialistic bullshit but no savings, investments, tons of debt, etc.

[broketriathlete]

Thanks so much Joy! I feel like I'm still coming full circle but still have some work ahead of me. I can't wait, that's for sure! I'm looking forward to the time with I am doing some massive saving for something I want, investment I want to make, or a vacation I want to take, instead of for a student loan! There is light at the end of the tunnel!

As far as YouTube, there's a lots of things I'm going to do it on. Vlogs, how to's, and maybe down the road I can start making some finanacial advice videos for people who were in my shoes; lots of showy materialistic bullshit but no savings, investments, tons of debt, etc.

I think I'm going to take cooking to a more thorough level than what I've been doing, to further save costs and occupy time!

[Bracken_Joy]

Thanks so much Joy! I feel like I'm still coming full circle but still have some work ahead of me. I can't wait, that's for sure! I'm looking forward to the time with I am doing some massive saving for something I want, investment I want to make, or a vacation I want to take, instead of for a student loan! There is light at the end of the tunnel!

As far as YouTube, there's a lots of things I'm going to do it on. Vlogs, how to's, and maybe down the road I can start making some finanacial advice videos for people who were in my shoes; lots of showy materialistic bullshit but no savings, investments, tons of debt, etc.

I think I'm going to take cooking to a more thorough level than what I've been doing, to further save costs and occupy time!

Another place YouTube comes in handy. I taught myself how to dice onions, mince garlic, poach eggs, tons of cooking cornerstones from videos. Great resource! Pair with a good cookbook or recipe blog that appeals to you, and you're well on your way to being a gourmet.

[tallen]

I like Paula Pant's philosophy on saving money: put away a certain percentage of each paycheck into savings (at least 20%, preferably 50% or so) and blow the rest guilt free on anything you like.

[broketriathlete]

1 bike down....1 to go!

[2Birds1Stone]

1 bike down....1 to go!

Congrats! Out of sheer curiosity, how much did the bike depreciate vs when it was new?
 

[Faraday]

1 bike down....1 to go!

Damb. Congratulations!

[EAL]

You're going to burn yourself out, it seems like you already have a little.  Ever seen someone diet so hard they either completely fall off the wagon because it is too strict or they become so obsessive they develop an eating disorder. 
I became a little like you for a while. I grew up poor so building wealth and saving saving saving was so important to me.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still very responsible with my money but I've found a happy medium.
I agree with the poster who suggested that you allocate a certain amount monthly or weekly (whatever you prefer) to use as fun money.  Make little adjustments and you'll see that you are still saving and still just fine!

[Faraday]

You're going to burn yourself out, it seems like you already have a little.  Ever seen someone diet so hard they either completely fall off the wagon because it is too strict or they become so obsessive they develop an eating disorder. 
I became a little like you for a while. I grew up poor so building wealth and saving saving saving was so important to me.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still very responsible with my money but I've found a happy medium.
I agree with the poster who suggested that you allocate a certain amount monthly or weekly (whatever you prefer) to use as fun money.  Make little adjustments and you'll see that you are still saving and still just fine!

WTF are you talking about? Blow money if you still are in debt? I'm getting tired of these posts where people advocate some kind of balance, but they don't really say what that means and why.

And what's the end-result you are advocating here? Some kind of glowy, indeterminate "good feeling"? What are you really talking about - give us some concrete examples?

[broketriathlete]

1 bike down....1 to go!

Congrats! Out of sheer curiosity, how much did the bike depreciate vs when it was new?

Actually I ended up on the plus side because I got the one bike at cost $2,200, and I believe I sold it for $2,400.

[broketriathlete]

You're going to burn yourself out, it seems like you already have a little.  Ever seen someone diet so hard they either completely fall off the wagon because it is too strict or they become so obsessive they develop an eating disorder. 
I became a little like you for a while. I grew up poor so building wealth and saving saving saving was so important to me.  Don't get me wrong, I'm still very responsible with my money but I've found a happy medium.
I agree with the poster who suggested that you allocate a certain amount monthly or weekly (whatever you prefer) to use as fun money.  Make little adjustments and you'll see that you are still saving and still just fine!

I do agree with your post as long as the person isn't slowing crawling back to the dark hole for which the came from! This really helps that I have a really dumb coworker that feels like she "owes it to her herself"....

STORY TIME

I work for a family business and the daughter is 32 still living at home and doesn't have any "real" bills like the majority of the world faces. She is constantly miserable every single day and I constantly have to listen to her complain about how the world hates her.

However, she has no savings and is in debt up to her eye balls. Here's the most recent STUPID money move she made which the following began about a month ago....

She's had credit card debt for about 10 years now (with no bills... idk how except for the sheer fact that living for the "now" and lack of responsibility created this) and started to finally "panic" about having bills because she wanted to finally move out into her own place. Her total debt is $12K, which is a lot, but then again it isn't when you don't have any bills. Her only "bill" is her car payment, which is a 2015 Toyota Corolla (more on that later) which totaled $262 a month. She has nothing else. Everything else is covered by her parents.

In lieu of the panic she was hell bent on getting one of those Prosper loans so she can "pay off the debt". I screamed up and down that she isn't paying off anything, but instead going FURTHER into debt. She kept saying that all she wanted to do was see $0's on her credit card accounts. Going completely against what I said she got the loan, not for $12K, but for $18K at 22.9%. Why $18K you ask? Because she wanted to have some money in savings! I told her having rented money as savings is about the dumbest thing she could do. Did it anyways.

So she got the loan and NOW she feels better because she was able to "pay off" her credit cards. Every time I hear her say that she paid them off my head about explodes.

FAST FORWARD TO 2 WEEKS AGO

So now she feels great because she feels accomplished and she no longer "has debt". All of a sudden her brand new car isn't good enough. So again against my plea she trades in her brand new 2015 car for another brand new car, but this time, a more expensive car (2015 RAV 4 Limited). Meanwhile I'm looking at my 13 year old Jeep that is still running like a boss. Now her thing is "Once I get this car I'll feel happy". "This car will make me happy." After a stout lecture about how chasing happiness in materialistic items is the epitome of idiocy, she did it any ways. So now her original $26K ($12K (Credit Card) & $14K (Old New Car) debt grew into $ $48K. Not to mention that she basically rented the Corolla last year for about $6K after her down payment and monthly payments. Not to mention the loss she took when she traded it in.

Ohh and that $6K in rented savings... GONE NOW. She bought new stuff for her brand new car. Decided to go on a vacation that she "deserved". Oh and her credit cards are growing in balances again...

A few days after the new car... GUESS WHAT?????? She's miserable again! Ohh and she shot herself in the foot for the ability to ever move out.

Face Palm x3498570239457209384578092347509874509823745

[broketriathlete]

So here's a small update for me...

I have sold both bikes and they are out of my hair. Never again.

I took the original $25K loan a few short months ago and now I'm down to $17K. I have hit a few bumps in the road and had a few costly things occur, but full steam ahead again.

1) Got engaged - Even though I work at a jewelry store, even at cost, an engagement ring is such a stupid expense. Buying a diamond is so egotistical thing and I absolutely hate it. Working in the industry I know anything at a carat or bigger the price sky rockets so I bought a "light carat" which was .98 carat to be exact. To the naked eye you can't tell between that and a carat. Even sweeter (I guess) is the owner mis graded his stone so when his gemologist appraised the stone it was actually 3 grades of color better and 1 grade of clarity better. The stone by itself literally doubled in value. So I got an even better diamond that I should have, and saved a ton of money doing it. The stone rapp's (basically dealer to dealer pricing) at $9K, not including the melee or mounting (which the ring is an original 1920's Art Deco ring). When guys ask to see her ring all they're doing is measuring their diamond buying dick to mine to see who's is bigger. So dumb. Between the engagement ring and trip we took was about $5,000. I hated spending it but she agreed that we are not getting married until I pay my loans off.

2) Dad has stage 4 liver cancer - Because of this (and we don't know how long he has) I took him on a weekend vacation to Orlando and basically did whatever he wanted as his last vacation of sorts. He knows what I'm trying to do so we was trying to watch what I spend but I told him not to worry about it. I wanted him to enjoy himself. That was just over $1,000 after hotels, food, magic game, travel, etc. I hated the cost with what I'm trying to do, but I'm glad I was able to do that for him.

3) 2 weddings, 1 of which I was in - No need to explain how absurd these events can be. Luckily the groom picked a cheap tux for us, but between the 2 weddings back to back it cost about $500.

4) Still have xmas coming up and have a few hundred bucks budgeted across the board.

All I have left is Xmas and full steam ahead. I'm still managing to put $1500 a month into my loans and I have 3 months of loans saved up in my "Loan Savings" account. So I'm still on schedule for the end of next year and thats not counting on a raise or tax refund, etc. I still have my E-Fund of $5K saved up and no debt of any kind except my student loans.

Question.... My IRA (Vanguard Retirement 2050) is still losing money. I'm about $300 in the hole. Should I take my $5.2K out and just dump it on my loans and start fresh next year? I'm not going to retire by losing money. Any insight on this?

[2Birds1Stone]

DO NOT LIQUIDATE THE IRA

[Faraday]

....stuff was here...
Question.... My IRA (Vanguard Retirement 2050) is still losing money. I'm about $300 in the hole. Should I take my $5.2K out and just dump it on my loans and start fresh next year? I'm not going to retire by losing money. Any insight on this?

I have exactly that same (Roth) IRA, at almost the same amount, and I'm planning to pour more money in soon rather than take out what I've got in it. When the fund is priced low like this and you buy when it rolls low, you are buying future leverage that you may not get the opportunity to buy again. (maybe will, but still, I wouldn't take the money out just yet).

NOW, THAT SAID....if you are wiping out loans with it, that's a Good Thing, but won't you get hit with taxes and penalties?

[broketriathlete]

No because we're able to pull out all of our contributions at anytime without penalty. We get penalized on the growth. Since mine is in the hole, it's all contribution...haha.

You are right though about the leverage. Come this time next year I'll have $10K instead of $5K so the growth will hopefully be more simply because I have more leverage in the account. This is my first year of investing, and apparently I picked a shitty year to start. I just hate that I can't contribute more until April and I'm watching the balance trend downwards when I have an outstanding debt...LOL.

[Faraday]

No because we're able to pull out all of our contributions at anytime without penalty. We get penalized on the growth. Since mine is in the hole, it's all contribution...haha.

You are right though about the leverage. Come this time next year I'll have $10K instead of $5K so the growth will hopefully be more simply because I have more leverage in the account. This is my first year of investing, and apparently I picked a shitty year to start. I just hate that I can't contribute more until April and I'm watching the balance trend downwards when I have an outstanding debt...LOL.

I thought of it that way back in 2007 when the market went in the shitter - I stopped contributing to my 401k when everything hit rock bottom, thinking I was throwing "good money after bad".

Then, when things recovered, I realized by talking to others who DID NOT QUIT, that they enjoyed dramatically higher returns due to that acquired leverage as the market climbed out. By that time, it was too late, there wasn't a thing I could do to recover the lost opportunity.

It was a bad, bad lesson for me to learn. Stay in and ROCK that 2050 retirement fund! I know I sure am!

[broketriathlete]

No because we're able to pull out all of our contributions at anytime without penalty. We get penalized on the growth. Since mine is in the hole, it's all contribution...haha.

You are right though about the leverage. Come this time next year I'll have $10K instead of $5K so the growth will hopefully be more simply because I have more leverage in the account. This is my first year of investing, and apparently I picked a shitty year to start. I just hate that I can't contribute more until April and I'm watching the balance trend downwards when I have an outstanding debt...LOL.

I thought of it that way back in 2007 when the market went in the shitter - I stopped contributing to my 401k when everything hit rock bottom, thinking I was throwing "good money after bad".

Then, when things recovered, I realized by talking to others who DID NOT QUIT, that they enjoyed dramatically higher returns due to that acquired leverage as the market climbed out. By that time, it was too late, there wasn't a thing I could do to recover the lost opportunity.

It was a bad, bad lesson for me to learn. Stay in and ROCK that 2050 retirement fund! I know I sure am!

Fair enough. Thanks for kicking my ass in the right direction. It was a thought while I was writing my previous post. I'm sure if I put serious thought into that I'd come to the same conclusion you did.

[broketriathlete]

This all really helps that I have a really dumb coworker that feels like she "owes it to her herself".... similar to how I used to think!

STORY TIME

I work for a family business and the daughter is 32 still living at home and doesn't have any "real" bills like the majority of the world faces. She is constantly miserable every single day and I constantly have to listen to her complain about how the world hates her.

However, she has no savings and is in debt up to her eye balls. Here's the most recent STUPID money move she made which the following began about a month ago....

She's had credit card debt for about 10 years now (with no bills... idk how except for the sheer fact that living for the "now" and lack of responsibility created this) and started to finally "panic" about having bills because she wanted to finally move out into her own place. Her total debt is $12K, which is a lot, but then again it isn't when you don't have any bills. Her only "bill" is her car payment, which is a 2015 Toyota Corolla (more on that later) which totaled $262 a month. She has nothing else. Everything else is covered by her parents.

In lieu of the panic she was hell bent on getting one of those Prosper loans so she can "pay off the debt". I screamed up and down that she isn't paying off anything, but instead going FURTHER into debt. She kept saying that all she wanted to do was see $0's on her credit card accounts. Going completely against what I said she got the loan, not for $12K, but for $18K at 22.9%. Why $18K you ask? Because she wanted to have some money in savings! I told her having rented money as savings is about the dumbest thing she could do. Did it anyways.

So she got the loan and NOW she feels better because she was able to "pay off" her credit cards. Every time I hear her say that she paid them off my head about explodes.

FAST FORWARD TO 2 WEEKS AGO

So now she feels great because she feels accomplished and she no longer "has debt". All of a sudden her brand new car isn't good enough. So again against my plea she trades in her brand new 2015 car for another brand new car, but this time, a more expensive car (2015 RAV 4 Limited). Meanwhile I'm looking at my 13 year old Jeep that is still running like a boss. Now her thing is "Once I get this car I'll feel happy". "This car will make me happy." After a stout lecture about how chasing happiness in materialistic items is the epitome of idiocy, she did it any ways. So now her original $26K ($12K (Credit Card) & $14K (Old New Car) debt grew into $ $48K. Not to mention that she basically rented the Corolla last year for about $6K after her down payment and monthly payments. Not to mention the loss she took when she traded it in.

Ohh and that $6K in rented savings... GONE NOW. She bought new stuff for her brand new car. Decided to go on a vacation that she "deserved". Oh and her credit cards are growing in balances again...

A few days after the new car... GUESS WHAT?????? She's miserable again! Ohh and she shot herself in the foot for the ability to ever move out.

Face Palm x 3498570239457209384578092347509874509823745