Author Topic: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?  (Read 13074 times)

jpdx

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #100 on: July 10, 2018, 09:20:05 PM »
There is no reason to "freak out," but there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic. ;)

No one knows what will happen with US health care policy in the future, but I think the following things are likely:

+ It will matter even more how much you make. All the recent sabotage has the affect of increasing premiums for those who do not receive subsidies, so it's important to reduce your MAGI.

+ It will matter even more where you live. It's likely that we see more segmenting and fracturing of the health care system between states. Some states have expanded medicaid, some did not. If the law changes, some states may continue with robust coverage for essential health benefits, some may not. Some states may continue with community rating, some may not. If this happens, vote with your feet.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #101 on: July 10, 2018, 10:12:56 PM »
The Trump Administration seems to be making a full court press to kill ObamaCare (better known in these circles as Affordable Care):

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/07/politics/wsj-aca-risk-adjustment/index.html
Quote
The Trump administration announced Saturday that it will temporarily halt billions of dollars in payments under the Affordable Care Act's risk adjustment program, a move that could shake up insurance markets.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), the agency that oversees the program, cited a recent federal court decision that found the formula for calculating the risk adjustment payments to be flawed. In a March 2018 ruling out of New Mexico, US District Court Judge Thomas Browning that the methodology used by the federal government was "arbitrary and capricious" and remanded it back to the agency, according to Lexis Legal News.

Also, https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/10/politics/obamacare-trump/index.html
Quote
"Given the continued attacks on health care, including federal rules allowing the resurgence of low-cost, junk health insurance plans, such as 'association health plans' and 'short-term plans', consumers looking for good, comprehensive coverage could be easily confused," said Frederick Isasi, executive director of Families USA, a left-leaning advocacy organization. "This is a time when consumers need more help to understand the insurance options that are available to themónot less."

And lets not forget Kavanaugh - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/congress/democrats-cast-kavanaugh-pick-as-a-battle-for-the-future-of-obamacare

SugarMountain

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #102 on: July 11, 2018, 10:55:27 AM »
There is no reason to "freak out," but there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic. ;)

No one knows what will happen with US health care policy in the future, but I think the following things are likely:

+ It will matter even more how much you make. All the recent sabotage has the affect of increasing premiums for those who do not receive subsidies, so it's important to reduce your MAGI.


Yeah.  The other day I checked our states exchange website to see what this might look like down the road.  A 60 year old couple would pay $24k for a $7k deductible plan today.  Given that this is going up faster than inflation, by the time I get there, assuming it's still even available, this would likely be $40k-50k in today's dollars.  That really blows a bit of a hole in FIRE plans.

And yes, that does mean that there is a financial cliff if you exceed certain MAGI levels, which as a high earner/high spender I need to look closely at. The other thing is that I really doubt the current subsidy model that everybody seems to be counting on is going to survive given the current makeup of Congress the administration.

One of the biggest criticisms of ACA (aside from the individual mandate) is how the middle gets squeezed.  I didn't realize just how bad the situation is until I started looking more closely at it recently.

pecunia

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #103 on: July 11, 2018, 11:33:48 AM »
Quote
One of the biggest criticisms of ACA (aside from the individual mandate) is how the middle gets squeezed.  I didn't realize just how bad the situation is until I started looking more closely at it recently.

Insurance executives are rubbing their hands together with a big grin on their faces.  "It's like taking candy from a baby," one of the executives says to another.

Xlar

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #104 on: July 11, 2018, 02:42:09 PM »
There is no reason to "freak out," but there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic. ;)

No one knows what will happen with US health care policy in the future, but I think the following things are likely:

+ It will matter even more how much you make. All the recent sabotage has the affect of increasing premiums for those who do not receive subsidies, so it's important to reduce your MAGI.


Yeah.  The other day I checked our states exchange website to see what this might look like down the road.  A 60 year old couple would pay $24k for a $7k deductible plan today.  Given that this is going up faster than inflation, by the time I get there, assuming it's still even available, this would likely be $40k-50k in today's dollars.  That really blows a bit of a hole in FIRE plans.

...

This is actually part of why I'm not so concerned about it. If health care costs reach $40-50k for an old couple there is no way that is sustainable. (Even $24k is crazy without the subsidies) Maybe it would happen for a few years but rapidly no normal people would have health insurance... That would mean that whoever was currently in office would have a lot of incentive to fix the problem or be voted out in the next election.

SugarMountain

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2018, 03:37:43 PM »
There is no reason to "freak out," but there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic. ;)

No one knows what will happen with US health care policy in the future, but I think the following things are likely:

+ It will matter even more how much you make. All the recent sabotage has the affect of increasing premiums for those who do not receive subsidies, so it's important to reduce your MAGI.


Yeah.  The other day I checked our states exchange website to see what this might look like down the road.  A 60 year old couple would pay $24k for a $7k deductible plan today.  Given that this is going up faster than inflation, by the time I get there, assuming it's still even available, this would likely be $40k-50k in today's dollars.  That really blows a bit of a hole in FIRE plans.

...

This is actually part of why I'm not so concerned about it. If health care costs reach $40-50k for an old couple there is no way that is sustainable. (Even $24k is crazy without the subsidies) Maybe it would happen for a few years but rapidly no normal people would have health insurance... That would mean that whoever was currently in office would have a lot of incentive to fix the problem or be voted out in the next election.

I hear what you're saying, but it seems like both sides are more bent on blaming the other side for the failures rather than sorting it out.  The number of people who buy their healthcare on the exchanges without subsidies is pretty small without much clout.  Corporations are focused on keeping employee benefit costs down, subsidized & Medicaid people don't really care, so there is not much of a lobby representing people who make $100k+ outside of normal employment.

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2018, 04:38:45 PM »
The other thing is that I really doubt the current subsidy model that everybody seems to be counting on is going to survive given the current makeup of Congress the administration.

One of the biggest criticisms of ACA (aside from the individual mandate) is how the middle gets squeezed.  I didn't realize just how bad the situation is until I started looking more closely at it recently.

The current Congress tried to scale down the subsidies and failed.  Hopefully, the democrats will take  control of at least one chamber with election in November.  There's not really a mandate without a penalty, which was repealed.

pecunia

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2018, 04:59:12 PM »
Xlar:
Quote
That would mean that whoever was currently in office would have a lot of incentive to fix the problem or be voted out in the next election.

Or,....they could make a killing (no pun intended) by making some super sweet deals with big Pharma and the insurance companies. 

Anybody that could pull one of these deals would have instant FI.

genesismachine

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #108 on: July 11, 2018, 05:41:04 PM »

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

THIS. Even if you can somehow get your income down low enough and then base your entire retirement plan around a low income. Then 'millionaire living off government subsidies' goes across the national news and congress immediately fixes this loophole and now your entire retirement plan is torpedoed.

To count on this situation going on for 30+ years is very optimistic IMO. And no, your representatives are not going to be fighting for you.

jim555

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #109 on: July 11, 2018, 06:04:52 PM »

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

THIS. Even if you can somehow get your income down low enough and then base your entire retirement plan around a low income. Then 'millionaire living off government subsidies' goes across the national news and congress immediately fixes this loophole and now your entire retirement plan is torpedoed.

To count on this situation going on for 30+ years is very optimistic IMO. And no, your representatives are not going to be fighting for you.
Republicans have tried many times to scale back the subsidies and make the Medicaid expansion underfunded.  Fortunately the Senate prevented it.  The only thing anyone can do is remain flexible and adapt as needed.  I am sure some states will step in and figure out something, so moving may be required.  Becoming an expat is another option as well.


hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #110 on: July 12, 2018, 06:12:54 AM »

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

THIS. Even if you can somehow get your income down low enough and then base your entire retirement plan around a low income. Then 'millionaire living off government subsidies' goes across the national news and congress immediately fixes this loophole and now your entire retirement plan is torpedoed.

To count on this situation going on for 30+ years is very optimistic IMO. And no, your representatives are not going to be fighting for you.
to the bolded. QUIT SPENDING SO MUCH DAMN MONEY.

now on with it,

How is that a problem? MMM retired with $600k and not much in the way of health insurance plan. Assuming there is no individual mandate, just reset your clock to early 2010s and you do the same thing anyone retiring then would have done.*

BTW, if you have several million you are self insured. What do you think, you'll get into an accident, be in a coma for years and they will finally take you off the respirator after several years when your millions run out???

*Had the mandate remained and the ACA was allowed to continue as was, with companies slowly closing their doors on states, then you would have been faced with a mandate, no insurance company would take you and employer based insurance would likely have been your only option. I would have guessed the Democrats would prefer that, Republicans tend to represent the rich capitalist, so this is likely going in your favor; for now.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #111 on: July 12, 2018, 06:14:48 AM »
There is no reason to "freak out," but there is reason to be cautiously pessimistic. ;)

No one knows what will happen with US health care policy in the future, but I think the following things are likely:

+ It will matter even more how much you make. All the recent sabotage has the affect of increasing premiums for those who do not receive subsidies, so it's important to reduce your MAGI.

+ It will matter even more where you live. It's likely that we see more segmenting and fracturing of the health care system between states. Some states have expanded medicaid, some did not. If the law changes, some states may continue with robust coverage for essential health benefits, some may not. Some states may continue with community rating, some may not. If this happens, vote with your feet.

I would also add; your two issues, to watch, tend to favor mustacians.

Bateaux

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #112 on: July 12, 2018, 07:26:58 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

swampwiz

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #113 on: July 12, 2018, 08:04:41 AM »
Corporations are focused on keeping employee benefit costs down, subsidized & Medicaid people don't really care, so there is not much of a lobby representing people who make $100k+ outside of normal employment.

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

I agree.  It's a similar situation to the "welfare Rothers" like Yours Truly who have their income as tax-free Roth distributions.  As long as we don't get noticed, we'll continue to get our free stuff.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #114 on: July 12, 2018, 09:24:33 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

SugarMountain

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #115 on: July 12, 2018, 09:58:56 AM »
We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   

Exactly.  I'm not "freaked out" by the situation, more frustrated than anything.  It's a shame that becoming an ex-pat may be the best solution.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #116 on: July 12, 2018, 10:18:41 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/

DreamFIRE

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #117 on: July 12, 2018, 10:31:13 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done.

No, not done.  I need reasonable premiums and deductibles that can be financed from my stash without having to reduce my lifestyle to shit, guaranteed issue and knowing they aren't going to drop me for needing healthcare.  Otherwise, I would have to delay retirement as I just explained.  I didn't save over a million $ just to spend it on insurance/premiums while barely scraping by on my expenses.

Quote
Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

I'm not getting anything for free.  I'm still working and paying high taxes as a single person.  I'll continue working rather than paying huge medical out of pocket costs.  After the election, if I can be more confident in ACA PCT and CSR, then I will FIRE.  We all need to do our part by voting in democrats who will protect the ACA.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2018, 12:19:14 PM by DreamFIRE »

Slee_stack

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2018, 12:04:08 PM »
I'm worried.

Worst case is that we will need to work another 7 years.  Thankfully at least we have a 55 rip-cord with pension/HC coverage regardless.

The bad news is I don't think I can handle another 7 years of working....particularly if its just to cover ridiculous $20K+ health insurance.

Expat route may be unavoidable.

Gin1984

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #119 on: July 12, 2018, 12:11:18 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.

DreamFIRE

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #120 on: July 12, 2018, 12:13:57 PM »
I'm worried.

Worst case is that we will need to work another 7 years.  Thankfully at least we have a 55 rip-cord with pension/HC coverage regardless.

That would be nice.  I don't even have that, so I will depend on ACA until I'm 65 and can get Medicare (assuming the republicans don't destroy that program by moving to a voucher assistance based program or raising the eligibility age)  I don't even want to think about full freight premiums for people in their low 60's if ACA goes away.  And as mentioned previously, at age 65, even Medicare is expensive when you add on the supplements to get the protection you need.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #121 on: July 12, 2018, 12:22:04 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.
My comment was directed at people who were thinking they needed to work for years to come in order to pay high premiums (since they are no longer artificially low). Essentially, not early retiring. My point being, if they want to retire early, while receiving a subsidy they should lower their income to a reasonable amount. This isn't boggleheads, get on board.

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.

SugarMountain

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #122 on: July 12, 2018, 03:59:58 PM »
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.

That's a very naive view. Here's the list of pre-existing conditions that generally made health insurance unavailable pre-ACA. (And this was just one of the first lists I saw, there are additional conditions I've seen listed in other places.)  The same article said approximately 25% of the population have one or more of these conditions.

Quote
AIDS/HIV   
Alcohol abuse/ Drug abuse with recent treatment   
Alzheimerís/dementia   
Arthritis (rheumatoid), fibromyalgia, other inflammatory joint disease   
Cancer within some period of time (e.g. 10 years, often other than basal skin cancer)   
Cerebral palsy   
Congestive heart failure   
Coronary artery/heart disease, bypass surgery   
Crohnís disease/ ulcerative colitis   
Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD)/emphysema   
Pending surgery or hospitalization
Diabetes mellitus   
Epilepsy   
Hemophilia   
Hepatitis (Hep C)   
Kidney disease, renal failure   
Lupus
Mental disorders (severe, e.g. bipolar, eating disorder)
Multiple sclerosis
Muscular dystrophy
Obesity, severe
Organ transplant
Paraplegia
Paralysis
Parkinsonís disease
Pneumocystic pneumonia
Pregnancy or expectant parent
Sleep apnea
Stroke
Transsexualism

SOURCE: Kaiser Family Foundation review of field underwriting guidelines from Aetna (GA, PA, and TX), Anthem BCBS (IN, KY, and OH), Assurant, CIGNA, Coventry, Dean Health, Golden Rule, Health Care Services Corporation (BCBS in IL, TX) HealthNet, Humana, United HealthCare, Wisconsin Physician Service.  Conditions in this table appeared on declinable conditions list in half or more of guides reviewed.  NOTE: Many additional, less-common disorders also appearing on most of the declinable conditions lists were omitted from this table.

It's not a matter of "save up for whatever plan to cover any prexisting condition".  That's not how it worked. The way it worked was the insurance company would look for any reason to deny coverage and if they found something, you couldn't get insurance at any price.  And if you omitted something in the application that was later found, they would deny coverage, so you'd have been paying for nothing.

Now, one of the most popular aspects of ACA is requiring insurance companies to cover regardless of pre-existing conditions, so I do think it will be hard to remove this.  But what I can see happening is because the individual mandate is gone, there is no longer as much incentive for healthy people to get insurance, so the pool in general becomes older and sicker.  That drives up prices, which causes lower participation, again mostly the healthy people leaving the exchanges.  At some point it is so expensive nobody will buy except for the subsidized folks and the insurers pull out of the exchange.  A lot of locales are already down to one insurer.  They leave and the only options are 1) live on an income low enough to qualify for Medicaid 2) Move 3) Get a job.

Obviously, #2 & 3 are options for a lot of the early retirees on these boards, but can also be tough.

swampwiz

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #123 on: July 12, 2018, 04:18:55 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

So you voted Republican when you were in the earning phase of life, and now that you are going to be in the consuming phase of life, you want to vote against the Republicans.  How convenient!

DreamFIRE

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #124 on: July 12, 2018, 04:23:37 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.
My comment was directed at people who were thinking they needed to work for years to come in order to pay high premiums (since they are no longer artificially low).

No, premiums are still subsidized and artificially low due to the PTC as mentioned in this thread as long as you keep your MAGI low enough.  The concern of the people you responded to, me being one, isn't that I can't control my MAGI to receive a PTC under ACA if I were to retire today, it is our concern that the ACA and/or its subsidies could go away altogether.

Quote
My point being, if they want to retire early, while receiving a subsidy they should lower their income to a reasonable amount. This isn't boggleheads, get on board.

If that's the case, you're misundestanding the posts you replied to.  We know all about controlling MAGI to qualify for PCT and CSR.  Controlling income under ACA to get the subsidies was not the concern being posted about but rather the ACA going away completely or otherwise being dismantled vs. what is available now.  Bateaux and I were both referring to losing ACA subsidies due to that, not because of any income planning.


Wexler

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #125 on: July 12, 2018, 04:25:35 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.
My comment was directed at people who were thinking they needed to work for years to come in order to pay high premiums (since they are no longer artificially low). Essentially, not early retiring. My point being, if they want to retire early, while receiving a subsidy they should lower their income to a reasonable amount. This isn't boggleheads, get on board.

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.

I'm confused by this comment. I think you are saying we should plan on low MAGI as a hedge against price fluctuations in ACA plans?  Is that right?

The ACA is such a boon to the MMM community. I can't believe we didn't take the chance to solidify it for decades with our votes.  I'm also rethinking our ability to FIRE in the next 5-10 years.  We'd be fine without the subsidy, but we can't afford a return to the pre-ACA insurance environment. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/08/aca-lawsuit-could-jeopardize-52-million-americans-access-to-health-care/?utm_term=.255f9a49efd9

This administration is hell-bent on dismantling the most popular provision of the ACA: preexisting condition coverage.  Look at the map in that article!  The states with the most preexisting conditions under age 65 are like a Hall of Fame for Trump Voters.  They aren't likely to save the ACA, so we'll have to save it ourselves.  Vote like your FIRE depends on it.


Wexler

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #126 on: July 12, 2018, 04:29:05 PM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

So you voted Republican when you were in the earning phase of life, and now that you are going to be in the consuming phase of life, you want to vote against the Republicans.  How convenient!

This high earner is voting against them in all phases of life, so I cancelled him out.  Plus, most of our senior citizens in the consuming phases of their lives are eagerly voting Republican to replace his lost vote.  Socialized medicine is only patriotic after age 65?

EnjoyIt

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #127 on: July 12, 2018, 05:46:30 PM »
Been working with this guy from South America.  he had to go to the doctor.

When he got back I showed him how the US ranks in terms of medicine with other countries.  He just shook his head.

Then there's the ambulance story in Massachusetts.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/395409-story-of-injured-woman-begging-people-not-to-call-ambulance-due-to-costs-gains

Makes me want to get alone in a dark room with some of those right wing politicians and give them the opportunity to avail themselves of THEIR excellent health care.

This health care thing can be can be fixed.

The US had some of the best cutting edge healthcare in the world if you have good insurance or the cash to afford it. Not so much for the poor or lower middle class which is what makes us rank so poorly. People from all over world come to the US to get treated.

Norsky

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #128 on: July 12, 2018, 06:02:14 PM »
After reading several of these health care threads, I am amazed at how much risk younger Mustachian are willing to assume, either knowingly or naively. As a current 60year old who would have FIRE'd in 2017 if not for the last election, I have experienced unexpected health costs that have escalated since age 52. I currently have recurring annual expenses that exceed $47,000. Luckily I have excellent employer insurance that costs approx $3,300 for employee premiums, deductibles and copays. These conditions make me uninsurable if not for guaranteed issue under ACA. My wife has separate insurance which is more expensive and poorer coverage and her family history and conditions make her uninsurable as well, even though she has few actual claims.

A risk I donít see discussed is the plan many Republicans want to enact that allows association plans to be offered at lower cost. What many donít realize is that even if guaranteed issue is preserved, any people who become high cost patients will need to retain their current coverage if community rating is allowed in these association plans. The reason is that anyone with health concerns wonít meet underwriting requirements. As a result as premiums rise, healthy people will leave and join a new lower cost plan with a 'healthy' association. Those unable to do so will be forced to stay with ever increasing premiums until they are broke, reach Medicare age (65) or die. My family experienced this in Minnesota when I was young and my Dad had a heart attack. Over time the affordable group coverage premiums rose exponentially and yet he was unable as a farmer to join a reasonable cost group due to underwriting concerns. Luckily he was successful enough to be able to afford the coverage.

FYI, 2 years ago when I looked at coverage on the exchange, the premium was approx $14,000 for my wife and I, and we would have had to pay $15,000 out of pocket for my treatments on top of that.  If I could be sure of that continuing to be available, we would still retire this year. However, we plan for one of us to work to age 63.5 at Chico time we will be able to buy Cobra coverage to span 18 months till Medicare eligibility.


swampwiz

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #129 on: July 12, 2018, 07:44:58 PM »
Plus, most of our senior citizens in the consuming phases of their lives are eagerly voting Republican to replace his lost vote.  Socialized medicine is only patriotic after age 65?

Seniors seem to have a short memory (duh), and they only seem to race back to the Democrats when the Republicans think that everyone is voting for them to gut Social Security & Medicare (e.g., 2006).

Socialized medicine is not aspect of patriotism; it's as aspect of common-sense cost-control that everyone else in the world has figured out.

swampwiz

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #130 on: July 12, 2018, 07:48:08 PM »
I currently have recurring annual expenses that exceed $47,000. Luckily I have excellent employer insurance that costs approx $3,300 for employee premiums, deductibles and copays.

Don't worry, I'm sure the beady-eyed accountants at your employer (if you're in the government, disregard this) have noticed, and your net cost has been duly noted in your file so that appropriate targets of the next layoff can be identified.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #131 on: July 12, 2018, 08:25:53 PM »
I currently have recurring annual expenses that exceed $47,000. Luckily I have excellent employer insurance that costs approx $3,300 for employee premiums, deductibles and copays.

Don't worry, I'm sure the beady-eyed accountants at your employer (if you're in the government, disregard this) have noticed, and your net cost has been duly noted in your file so that appropriate targets of the next layoff can be identified.
Nice theory, but unlikely to be true. Employers only get anonymized claim data.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #132 on: July 13, 2018, 09:19:44 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.
My comment was directed at people who were thinking they needed to work for years to come in order to pay high premiums (since they are no longer artificially low). Essentially, not early retiring. My point being, if they want to retire early, while receiving a subsidy they should lower their income to a reasonable amount. This isn't boggleheads, get on board.

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.

I'm confused by this comment. I think you are saying we should plan on low MAGI as a hedge against price fluctuations in ACA plans?  Is that right?

The ACA is such a boon to the MMM community. I can't believe we didn't take the chance to solidify it for decades with our votes.  I'm also rethinking our ability to FIRE in the next 5-10 years.  We'd be fine without the subsidy, but we can't afford a return to the pre-ACA insurance environment. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/08/aca-lawsuit-could-jeopardize-52-million-americans-access-to-health-care/?utm_term=.255f9a49efd9

This administration is hell-bent on dismantling the most popular provision of the ACA: preexisting condition coverage.  Look at the map in that article!  The states with the most preexisting conditions under age 65 are like a Hall of Fame for Trump Voters.  They aren't likely to save the ACA, so we'll have to save it ourselves.  Vote like your FIRE depends on it.

Then your real concern should not be one, either. Republicans may have an agenda but they aren't stupid. Even if that lawsuit went that way Republicans, probably along with some Democrats(some Repubs would never vote for it), would pass a patch. Not trying to be partisan, but the only way I don't see that happening is if Democrats think they have a moment to gain something additionally and overreach.

edit to clarify; even then the president and repub leadership would continue to press and say they want to approve a clean patch and the dems, not being stupid either, would eventually give in.

Mandate=unpopular, gone. Pre-existing conditions=popular, staying.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:22:14 AM by hoping2retire35 »

pecunia

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #133 on: July 13, 2018, 09:23:06 AM »
Wexler:
Quote
Plus, most of our senior citizens in the consuming phases of their lives are eagerly voting Republican to replace his lost vote.  Socialized medicine is only patriotic after age 65?

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2016/sep/23/older-americans-vote-republican-fact-check-election-2016

It certainly isn't a pure thing.  This talks about the presidential election with Romney and says 56 percent of those over 65 voted GOP.

I'm fast heading to be in that age group.  A pox on both the parties.  Corporations own them both.

I'm surprised people aren't more angry about this health care thing than they are.  I'm surprised people aren't more organized than they are.

I'm surprised people aren't saying,"Sure, I'll pay a bit more tax if it is allowed to be used as FU money against the insurance companies."  I mean these guys are like lawyers.  People do not like insurance companies.  They are cold blooded actuaries making their money from the chance of the misfortune of others.  Correct me when I say they do not have the morals of the Society at large.

salt cured

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #134 on: July 13, 2018, 09:36:10 AM »
My wife's mother is a Canadian citizen which may give us the option to seek citizenship for my wife.  I hope we don't have to do that, but our country certainly is trending in the wrong direction for us in these two important areas.
If your wife's mother was born in Canada or naturalized in Canada before she gave birth, then your wife is almost definitely already a Canadian citizen.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #135 on: July 13, 2018, 09:53:08 AM »
Mandate=unpopular, gone. Pre-existing conditions=popular, staying.

Sadly, the insurance companies and reality does not work this way.  Pre-existing conditions are too expensive for insurance pool = gone.

I'm surprised people aren't more angry about this health care thing than they are.  I'm surprised people aren't more organized than they are.

"People" are angry about the bills they get in the mail, but then it's too late.  And government right now is doing a really good job of keeping them distracted.  The government are definitely not in your corner looking to hammer out the complexities. 

Bottom line, I'm keeping my job and health insurance until I figure out what I really want.  If I want ER bad enough, then having to go overseas where healthcare is a basic human right is a distinct possibility.  It's ironic though, that America was founded on "inalienable rights", and we are currently becoming a 3rd world shit-hole because of treatment of immigration (separating families) and inability to provide reasonable health care! 

Gin1984

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #136 on: July 13, 2018, 09:57:58 AM »
In early 2016 I'd planned to be FIRE class of 2018.  The election nullified that.  I'm currently hoping to go class of 2019 or no later than 2020.   The next elections could extent that till 2023 when I'll qualify for employer retirement benefits.   Even those employer benefits aren't great but with the potential loss of the ACA they are at least some hedge.  I don't expect sympathy for our situation, yes we're millionaires and we can roll the dice in FIRE.  It would be much nicer however if our government would get off their ass and come up with a decent health care system.  We cannot plan our retirement because we are in Limbo on a major cost.  The only thing that can possibly bankrupt us at this point is a medical emergency.  We've saved nearly 30 years and it's the potential to get sick that prevents our retirement.   This is a fucked up situation and one party is to blame.  I voted Republican like a fool for decades and now I'm paying the price.

Well said.  My million+ sta$h won't cut it without ACA subsidies.  I'm not sure how long I would have to delay FIRE without the ACA.  Without ACA, premiums would continue to go up with time and age, if you can get it at all (if no guaranteed issue).  As long as I keep working, I have great healthcare benefits.

So you both can get high deductible plans, high the catestrophic stuff in case it gets bad. Done. Why the complainy pants; the government is no longer giving you free, high quality, health care as you live in bliss?

https://www.healthinsurance.org/faqs/i-have-an-individual-hdhp-and-an-hsa-will-i-still-be-able-to-have-them-under-the-aca/
No, I can't. I was unable to get ANY health insurance, included high deductible plans prior to ACA, for ANY price.
My comment was directed at people who were thinking they needed to work for years to come in order to pay high premiums (since they are no longer artificially low). Essentially, not early retiring. My point being, if they want to retire early, while receiving a subsidy they should lower their income to a reasonable amount. This isn't boggleheads, get on board.

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.
Why can't I what?  Why could I not get insurance?  No, not type 1 diabetes, not at all.  Something much, much smaller.  I locked up a muscle in my back that required muscle relaxants to fix.  That's it.  No insurance at all for me based on that.  I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price.  I applied to every single insurance company in California, so this was not a rural area with one insurance company nor a major medical issue and I still could get absolutely nothing.  I ended up COBRAing my mom's insurance for over $500/month back in 2010.  So I have never expected cheap insurance, I just wanted something. And without ACA, that was not possible for me. 
I think you need to learn more about what happened to people with minor medical issues prior to ACA.

jacquespluto

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #137 on: July 13, 2018, 10:16:58 AM »
My wife's mother is a Canadian citizen which may give us the option to seek citizenship for my wife.  I hope we don't have to do that, but our country certainly is trending in the wrong direction for us in these two important areas.
If your wife's mother was born in Canada or naturalized in Canada before she gave birth, then your wife is almost definitely already a Canadian citizen.

Yes, I believe so as well.  We just don't have the paperwork to show that.  MIL is currently working on getting her paperwork in order as she has lived in the USA for over 40 years.  I imagine we will need to have a quick chat with an immigration lawyer to figure out the steps.

hoping2retire35

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #138 on: July 13, 2018, 10:47:23 AM »

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.
Why can't I what?  Why could I not get insurance?  No, not type 1 diabetes, not at all.  Something much, much smaller.  I locked up a muscle in my back that required muscle relaxants to fix.  That's it.  No insurance at all for me based on that.  I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price.  I applied to every single insurance company in California, so this was not a rural area with one insurance company nor a major medical issue and I still could get absolutely nothing.  I ended up COBRAing my mom's insurance for over $500/month back in 2010.  So I have never expected cheap insurance, I just wanted something. And without ACA, that was not possible for me. 
I think you need to learn more about what happened to people with minor medical issues prior to ACA.
Should have used 'couldn't', maybe that would have made my questioning a little more clear. Anywho, a catastrophic plan for someone of your age would be the best economical choice (given what you have revealed about yourself) which is/was no longer an option with the mandate.

Bolded; I was simply asking a question, no need to get defense and believe you need to lecture anyone.

Gin1984

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #139 on: July 13, 2018, 12:07:24 PM »

Why can't you, do you have Type 1 diabetes? You are still young, presuming you were born in '84 and have plenty of time to save up for whatever plan you need to cover any preexisting condition.
Why can't I what?  Why could I not get insurance?  No, not type 1 diabetes, not at all.  Something much, much smaller.  I locked up a muscle in my back that required muscle relaxants to fix.  That's it.  No insurance at all for me based on that.  I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price.  I applied to every single insurance company in California, so this was not a rural area with one insurance company nor a major medical issue and I still could get absolutely nothing.  I ended up COBRAing my mom's insurance for over $500/month back in 2010.  So I have never expected cheap insurance, I just wanted something. And without ACA, that was not possible for me. 
I think you need to learn more about what happened to people with minor medical issues prior to ACA.
Should have used 'couldn't', maybe that would have made my questioning a little more clear. Anywho, a catastrophic plan for someone of your age would be the best economical choice (given what you have revealed about yourself) which is/was no longer an option with the mandate.

Bolded; I was simply asking a question, no need to get defense and believe you need to lecture anyone.
That is completely not true because as I stated before, no insurance company would cover me with any plan, including a catastrophic plan. 
You were not asking questions, you (still) seem to believe you have all the answers on how things are done, and your conclusions are based on faulty information.  I'm correcting that faulty info.

bacchi

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #140 on: July 13, 2018, 12:10:09 PM »
It's not a matter of "save up for whatever plan to cover any prexisting condition".  That's not how it worked. The way it worked was the insurance company would look for any reason to deny coverage and if they found something, you couldn't get insurance at any price.  And if you omitted something in the application that was later found, they would deny coverage, so you'd have been paying for nothing.

Ah, the good ol' days before the ACA.

They'd rescind your policy if you were treated for acne. For a cancer claim.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wellpoint-breastcancer1/corrected-wellpoint-routinely-targets-breast-cancer-patients-idUSTRE63M5D420100423

Quote
The women all paid their premiums on time. Before they fell ill, none had any problems with their insurance. Initially, they believed their policies had been canceled by mistake.

They had no idea that WellPoint was using a computer algorithm that automatically targeted them and every other policyholder recently diagnosed with breast cancer. The software triggered an immediate fraud investigation, as the company searched for some pretext to drop their policies, according to government regulators and investigators.


It's a sobering article about how insurance companies treated people to increase their profit margins. We don't want to go back to that era.



effigy98

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #141 on: July 13, 2018, 03:39:14 PM »
Corporations are focused on keeping employee benefit costs down, subsidized & Medicaid people don't really care, so there is not much of a lobby representing people who make $100k+ outside of normal employment.

"I retired early with a couple million in the bank, but can't afford healthcare" isn't going to generate much sympathy from the general population.

I agree.  It's a similar situation to the "welfare Rothers" like Yours Truly who have their income as tax-free Roth distributions.  As long as we don't get noticed, we'll continue to get our free stuff.

I love this term... "welfare Rothers"

swampwiz

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #142 on: July 13, 2018, 04:51:38 PM »
I currently have recurring annual expenses that exceed $47,000. Luckily I have excellent employer insurance that costs approx $3,300 for employee premiums, deductibles and copays.

Don't worry, I'm sure the beady-eyed accountants at your employer (if you're in the government, disregard this) have noticed, and your net cost has been duly noted in your file so that appropriate targets of the next layoff can be identified.

Nice theory, but unlikely to be true. Employers only get anonymized claim data.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/02/12/news/economy/employer-health/index.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-01-05/news/0901040237_1_medical-bills-firing-nurse
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 04:54:51 PM by swampwiz »

pecunia

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #143 on: July 13, 2018, 04:55:37 PM »
Gin1984:
Quote
I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price. 

Jeepers - That just sounds like back strain.  I've had that about 3 times, but it probably never registered with my insurance due to the high deductible.

Despite their complaints about not making money, I think these insurance companies must make a dandy investment.  I guess folks without souls have no compunctions about stealing.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #144 on: July 13, 2018, 05:15:56 PM »
Gin1984:
Quote
I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price. 

Jeepers - That just sounds like back strain.  I've had that about 3 times, but it probably never registered with my insurance due to the high deductible.

Despite their complaints about not making money, I think these insurance companies must make a dandy investment.  I guess folks without souls have no compunctions about stealing.

Look at the stocks for health insurance companies...they are more profitable today as compared to pre ACA days.

SugarMountain

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #145 on: July 13, 2018, 05:53:15 PM »
Gin1984:
Quote
I was a college kid and hurt my back and then when I aged out of my mom's plan, I tried to get insurance.  I was ineligible for anything, at any price. 

Jeepers - That just sounds like back strain.  I've had that about 3 times, but it probably never registered with my insurance due to the high deductible.

Despite their complaints about not making money, I think these insurance companies must make a dandy investment.  I guess folks without souls have no compunctions about stealing.

Look at the stocks for health insurance companies...they are more profitable today as compared to pre ACA days.

Well, with government subsidizing millions of people's insurance, that will happen.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #146 on: July 13, 2018, 11:54:31 PM »
I currently have recurring annual expenses that exceed $47,000. Luckily I have excellent employer insurance that costs approx $3,300 for employee premiums, deductibles and copays.

Don't worry, I'm sure the beady-eyed accountants at your employer (if you're in the government, disregard this) have noticed, and your net cost has been duly noted in your file so that appropriate targets of the next layoff can be identified.

Nice theory, but unlikely to be true. Employers only get anonymized claim data.

https://money.cnn.com/2014/02/12/news/economy/employer-health/index.html

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2009-01-05/news/0901040237_1_medical-bills-firing-nurse
I think these articles are saying the same thing as me. AOL didn't get told that this particular employee was the recipient of expensive care. They just get a report of costs, see that there were two very expensive births, and that's it. Could they potentially figure out/trick employees into revealing who that is? Sure, but that's playing with fire.

I'd love to know what happened in the case of the nurse. The article made it sound like a blatantly illegal firing too.

bigote2032

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #147 on: July 16, 2018, 09:44:43 PM »
I am not freaking out about it because my FIRE estimated date is in 6 to 8 years.

However, I am very concerned, if my FIRE goal is $1mil and I get 40k a year following the 4% rule, having an annual health insurance cost of 24k will leave me with little money to live my life.

And don't get me started on medicare, that is the largest scam, the mainstream makes you belive that medicare is free health insurance when it is actually more expensive than some ACA plans.

The fact is that if I have reached my $1mil today, I would not be able to retire due to the health care situation and I would be freaking out.  Ridiculous thought that you have enough money to cover your needs for life but health insurance, which in many cases you won't need, keeps you from retiring and instead have you in the rat race OMY.

The current political climate is so negative and against the people, but nothing lasts forever.  I want to be optimistic, I want to believe that someone out there wants to help the people and bring us closer to what health insurance is supposed to be in a developed country.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #148 on: July 16, 2018, 10:04:12 PM »
I am not freaking out about it because my FIRE estimated date is in 6 to 8 years.

However, I am very concerned, if my FIRE goal is $1mil and I get 40k a year following the 4% rule, having an annual health insurance cost of 24k will leave me with little money to live my life.

And don't get me started on medicare, that is the largest scam, the mainstream makes you belive that medicare is free health insurance when it is actually more expensive than some ACA plans.

The fact is that if I have reached my $1mil today, I would not be able to retire due to the health care situation and I would be freaking out.  Ridiculous thought that you have enough money to cover your needs for life but health insurance, which in many cases you won't need, keeps you from retiring and instead have you in the rat race OMY.

The current political climate is so negative and against the people, but nothing lasts forever.  I want to be optimistic, I want to believe that someone out there wants to help the people and bring us closer to what health insurance is supposed to be in a developed country.

I couldn't agree more. I think it behoves each and every one of us to look for ways to make just little bit more income to cover potential healthcare needs.  The reality is that we have a 100% chance of getting sick and needing healthcare one day.  This doesn't necessarily mean working many many more years.  It could be as simple as working part time to allow your stash to grow for a few more years.

Daisy

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Re: Is anyone else freaked out about health care right now?
« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2018, 11:53:53 PM »
Health Share Ministry?

Since these are so much cheaper than insurance, I am pretty sure they either do not cover certain things or they have greatly underestimated their possible costs. My fear is that when you present them with a huge medical cost, they will either go bankrupt or tell you"the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few,' and leave you bankrupt or untreated.

Thoughts and prayers are not healthcare.

I know of several people who have had significant on going health issues while on Health Share Ministry and not had any problems getting reimbursed. 

A couple reasons why they are significantly cheaper:

1. They don't cover tobacco, alcohol, and other drug related expenses.
2.  Don't cover most STD's, out of wedlock type expenses.
3.  Some have caps, i.e. $1M per incident
4.  Regular health insurance premiums for healthy people are partly subsidizing the sickly or poor (not sure about this)

I'm not religious, but when I retire I can accept those conditions.  And while the person who was blocked suggested the point a little more crudely, I think there is a point to be made that as medical expenses get more costly you have to start playing the odds and saying I can either have 100% chance of paying astronomical premiums which would significantly hinder my enjoyment of life or except a small chance of a catastrophic injury/disease that won't be covered and I can't afford.

I think. but am not sure, that the health share ministries are not necessarily as profit driven as insurance companies. If this is true, not paying so many middlemen may make their plans cheaper with hopefully a similar amount of care.

For the record, I have been on Liberty health share since I FIREd late last year. I had one "female wellness" yearly visit that was totally covered as preventive care ($200 for the visit, got reimbursed), and several chiropractor visits that have fallen under the $500 deductible.

Liberty doesn't pay for prescriptions, but on the plan you get a separate pharmacy discount on drugs. I only take one drug regularly, birth control pill. This was covered at a discounted rate. Before ACA, I paid for my own birth control. I can't remember how much it cost, but it wasn't that much. After ACA, birth control was "free" (yeah right, it's added to your premiums). With Liberty, I got a 3 month prescription filled for $50. Not bad, I think.

Someone above mentioned health share ministries wouldn't cover them because they were gay. I know someone on this forum that is gay and was accepted by Liberty healthshare and were honest about their sexual orientation. I'm not sure how the other health share ministries deal with this, but don't automatically think you won't be covered. The best option is to call and see if you qualify.

BTW, on Liberty you get $100 for a referral, so if interested you can use me as a referral. PM me if interested.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 11:57:13 PM by Daisy »