Author Topic: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian  (Read 7909 times)

jjandjab

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My wife and I are both in our mid 40s with three teens. As of late 2017 both of us would be classified as overweight, although me more so than her. Over the years we have tried lots of thing to lose weight consistently, but neither of us loves to exercise. At least the "working-out" type of exercise. We have bought various Beachbody programs and bought gym memberships and home workout equipment. I did complete P90x about 7 years ago and then ran a marathon, but that level of exercise commitment was too much to maintain...

Just before the New Year our oldest teen had brought the family to a low point of 2017 (amongst many bad decisions last year) and both my wife and I were wallowing in stress/self-pity mode while pigging out. After reaching our heaviest weights in more than 15 years, we finally said lets do this 5:2 fasting and set aggressive goals. I wanted to go from 212 lbs (5'10") down to 180 in 2018. She wanted to go from 155 lbs (5'6") down to 140.

Well lo and behold, by eating one 500-600 meal on two days a week (or some other division of the calories, I just like the one bigger meal), we have both seen dramatic results. Our only exercise has been walking, albeit sometimes nice long ones. But not HIIT or weights or cardio or pilates or hot yoga (actually occasional yoga/stretching)

From Dec 29 to now, I'm down 24 pounds to 188. My wife already reached her goal and is at 138. It has truly been amazing. We have paid attention to our eating on the other 5 days as well, but we have still gone out on date nights for drinks and burgers. I had a huge turkey club with bacon and sweet chill Doritios last weekend (not too many though). There is nothing, except maybe large plates of cheese and crackers - because we can't control ourselves, that we have given up completely. And out grocery bill is way down from eating less!

We tried calorie restriction and eating healthier in the past - but never had results like this. There is something mentally reassuring about saying ok, I am going to be amazingly good today and just have one healthy salad, coffee and water. Tomorrow I can have the other stuff I want... The old way we would try to eat salads every day and steamed veges, and then it would quickly lose its luster.

And there is nothing to buy!! No videos. No containers. No shakes. No special bars. It was actually hilarious having this conversation with a neighbor who has tried everything. She just didn't get it - wait, what book do I have to buy for this? There must a thermogenic snack to help you right? Ah it was funny

So anyway, just interesting. I know it's all the rage in the press but for us it really has worked for health, general well being and saving cash. Nice combo....

Let me know if anyone else has tried and had results. I hope to check in again when I get to my goal...

Dave1442397

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2018, 11:21:25 AM »
I used the 5:2 diet to lose 20lbs back in 2015. I read the book and read a lot on the website - https://thefastdiet.co.uk/

The weight crept up again in 2017 after some issues kept me from my usual exercise routine, so I started back on 5:2 on 2/12, and have lost 18lbs since then. I cheated a bit - this is my fifth week doing 4:3 instead of 5:2, and it hasn't been a problem. I find it gets easier as the weather warms up a bit.

I find myself eating less (or, at least, not overeating) on my regular days. I don't count calories, per se, but I don't feel the need to snack all the time just because there's food around.

This is what's in my desk drawer at the moment :)




OurTown

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2018, 11:42:43 AM »
I had good luck with IF last year.  In the Spring of 2017 I did three 36-hour fasts every week.  I did that for about six weeks.  Lost a bunch of excess weight and flab.  This was combined with lo-carb / keto eating on the alternating days.  I've kept the weight off since then by doing five 20-hour fasts, essentially eating one meal a day on work days.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2018, 11:48:59 AM »
Basically you are eating one healthy meal two days a week and thatís all you eat for the day?

Thatís so great you both did this together and had such wonderful results.  Iíve been working out almost every day for months now and I love how strong I feel but man I feel like it makes me hungry all the time.  I lose weight by diet alone and none at all when I work out. I love the strength I have but I want to drop a few pounds. Iím whining here but this is what happens with me. I hate being hungry and I will just eat enough to stop the hunger pains but then I find Iím eating every 2-3 hours.  On the rare occasion my stomach is empty but I donít feel hungry I wonít eat but thatís not every often. Iím healthy but I think Iím obsessed with the number on the scale which I should ignore. A few pounds ago was my lowest ever adult weight and I havenít seen that number in a month.  But yet I am more lean and I feel great. I just want that number back and Iím thinking the only way I can do that and still work out is to go hungry for longer stretches.

How big is that one salad on those days, are you hungry soon after?  I am intrigued by this fasting stuff and Iím assuming you can adjust so you donít feel like youíre depriving yourself?


jlcnuke

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2018, 11:49:56 AM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in < calories used = weight loss. The laws of physics don't change.  If gimmicks help you make that happen, more power to you.  At least one doctor that was recommending intermittent fasting did their own study which showed it was on par, or worse, in general, compared to consistently eating the same average calorie deficit (I'd link but it's been a while since I looked it up last so I don't remember her name). Others show some positives for it. The general medical advice out there is still that moderate caloric deficit is the most healthy way to lose weight from all the doctors I've talked to/read. So that's what I stick with when losing weight.
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mizzourah2006

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 12:02:01 PM »
My wife and I are both in our mid 40s with three teens. As of late 2017 both of us would be classified as overweight, although me more so than her. Over the years we have tried lots of thing to lose weight consistently, but neither of us loves to exercise. At least the "working-out" type of exercise. We have bought various Beachbody programs and bought gym memberships and home workout equipment. I did complete P90x about 7 years ago and then ran a marathon, but that level of exercise commitment was too much to maintain...

Just before the New Year our oldest teen had brought the family to a low point of 2017 (amongst many bad decisions last year) and both my wife and I were wallowing in stress/self-pity mode while pigging out. After reaching our heaviest weights in more than 15 years, we finally said lets do this 5:2 fasting and set aggressive goals. I wanted to go from 212 lbs (5'10") down to 180 in 2018. She wanted to go from 155 lbs (5'6") down to 140.

Well lo and behold, by eating one 500-600 meal on two days a week (or some other division of the calories, I just like the one bigger meal), we have both seen dramatic results. Our only exercise has been walking, albeit sometimes nice long ones. But not HIIT or weights or cardio or pilates or hot yoga (actually occasional yoga/stretching)

From Dec 29 to now, I'm down 24 pounds to 188. My wife already reached her goal and is at 138. It has truly been amazing. We have paid attention to our eating on the other 5 days as well, but we have still gone out on date nights for drinks and burgers. I had a huge turkey club with bacon and sweet chill Doritios last weekend (not too many though). There is nothing, except maybe large plates of cheese and crackers - because we can't control ourselves, that we have given up completely. And out grocery bill is way down from eating less!

We tried calorie restriction and eating healthier in the past - but never had results like this. There is something mentally reassuring about saying ok, I am going to be amazingly good today and just have one healthy salad, coffee and water. Tomorrow I can have the other stuff I want... The old way we would try to eat salads every day and steamed veges, and then it would quickly lose its luster.

And there is nothing to buy!! No videos. No containers. No shakes. No special bars. It was actually hilarious having this conversation with a neighbor who has tried everything. She just didn't get it - wait, what book do I have to buy for this? There must a thermogenic snack to help you right? Ah it was funny

So anyway, just interesting. I know it's all the rage in the press but for us it really has worked for health, general well being and saving cash. Nice combo....

Let me know if anyone else has tried and had results. I hope to check in again when I get to my goal...

I've done a modified intermittent fasting (16 off 8 on) for several years now. I have a horrible metabolism and it has done a great job of helping me maintain my weight (from the weekend beers and cheat meal(s)). I've also started integrating a 24 hour fast at the beginning of the week (usually Sunday evening to Monday evening) and that has also really helped. IF is great, because after a few weeks you forget you're even skipping breakfast.

jjandjab

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2018, 12:40:56 PM »
Basically you are eating one healthy meal two days a week and thatís all you eat for the day?

Thatís so great you both did this together and had such wonderful results.  Iíve been working out almost every day for months now and I love how strong I feel but man I feel like it makes me hungry all the time.  I lose weight by diet alone and none at all when I work out. I love the strength I have but I want to drop a few pounds. Iím whining here but this is what happens with me. I hate being hungry and I will just eat enough to stop the hunger pains but then I find Iím eating every 2-3 hours.  On the rare occasion my stomach is empty but I donít feel hungry I wonít eat but thatís not every often. Iím healthy but I think Iím obsessed with the number on the scale which I should ignore. A few pounds ago was my lowest ever adult weight and I havenít seen that number in a month.  But yet I am more lean and I feel great. I just want that number back and Iím thinking the only way I can do that and still work out is to go hungry for longer stretches.

How big is that one salad on those days, are you hungry soon after?  I am intrigued by this fasting stuff and Iím assuming you can adjust so you donít feel like youíre depriving yourself?

I find this link to be the best, clearest explanation.   https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/the-5-2-diet-guide

Yes it can be adjusted and you can move days around if something comes up - for instance my wife will move her fast day if it ends up on her bookgroup day so she can enjoy the snacks and wine...

My salad gets pretty big with greens and veggies, but also meat and croutons and dressing to feel more full. I skip cheese since it has lots of calories. But a 600 calorie salad can get pretty big... We also make lots of low calories soup to help out on the bad hunger days.

What you describe is how I personally have felt. I could do hard core gym workouts, but I was always hungry and I had a hard time balancing those things. I would always end up giving in to eating too much. I mentally and physically find it much easier to eat less and workout less.  Even with a 2 hour walk I get far less hungry than a 25 minute cardio or strength workout.

Good luck if you try it

jtraggie99

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2018, 12:48:30 PM »
I think for decades we had it beat into our head that you MUST eat 3 meals a day, that skipping meals was unhealthy.  And I think this is at least partially what has helped contribute to the obesity problem in the US.  People became so obsessed with eating regularly that they missed the obvious, don't eat if you're not hungry.

For awhile now, I have intentionally skipped breakfast.  Not always, but most days I do not typically eat before noon.  Then it's usually a small lunch, and my main meal is at night.  Although there are times when I eat a larger lunch and a smaller dinner, or maybe no dinner at all (or sometimes no lunch at all).  And then there are times when I do eat breakfast, then skip lunch, and eat dinner.  Sometimes my meals are relatively healthy (meats and veggies), and sometimes not.  And I do eat my share of junk food and regularly drink beer and bourbon.  The bottom line is I listen to my body and eat when I'm hungry and try not to when I'm not.  I am in my early 40's, 6'01", and about 170 lbs currently.  It sounds simple and straightforward, but it works for me. 

Oh, and just for reference, as for exercise, I primarily stick to yoga and outdoor activities.  I used to be an avid weightlifting and at times weighted 30 - 40 lbs more than now.  All the heavy weights took a toll on my body, so I tend to avoid it now and focus more on mobility, flexibility, and just getting outside and doing the things I enjoy (biking, hiking, etc).


eljefe-speaks

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2018, 01:59:52 PM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.

My understanding is that this is not true. The body reacts differently to incoming calories based on insulin response. If you eat something that cannot fuel the brain and bodily functions (very low carb) the body will break down fat reserves to get the fuel. Also if you eat something the body cannot digest, your equation is wrong on its face.

I realize this is a slippery slope and diet is right up there now with politics and religion as banned Thanksgiving conversation.

OP - I have done the IF thing for a while. As of late, it has stopped working for me as well as it once did. I think I am getting lazy and supplementing my fasting time by eating more during feed time. Your post is a reminder to get back on track.

A revelation for me was how good it can feel to be in a fasted state. I used to freak out if I was hungry for an hour or two. After the "hanger" passes, I feel fantastic! I work fasted training in whenever I can - no energy loss whatsoever. Of course that is because I have plenty of "reserves," haha.


eljefe-speaks

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2018, 02:06:56 PM »
Iíve been working out almost every day for months now and I love how strong I feel but man I feel like it makes me hungry all the time.  I lose weight by diet alone and none at all when I work out.

This is SO TRUE with me as well. A few months ago I ran an experiment with myself. I ran 5 kilometers per day for 10 consecutive days. Weight lost: 0 lbs! My undermining, sneaky, petulant body must've added those calories back without my being fully aware. The ONLY way I can lose any weight at all is being extra vigilant on my intake. IF is the easiest way for me to do that.

jlcnuke

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2018, 02:23:41 PM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.

My understanding is that this is not true. The body reacts differently to incoming calories based on insulin response. If you eat something that cannot fuel the brain and bodily functions (very low carb) the body will break down fat reserves to get the fuel. Also if you eat something the body cannot digest, your equation is wrong on its face.

I realize this is a slippery slope and diet is right up there now with politics and religion as banned Thanksgiving conversation.

OP - I have done the IF thing for a while. As of late, it has stopped working for me as well as it once did. I think I am getting lazy and supplementing my fasting time by eating more during feed time. Your post is a reminder to get back on track.

A revelation for me was how good it can feel to be in a fasted state. I used to freak out if I was hungry for an hour or two. After the "hanger" passes, I feel fantastic! I work fasted training in whenever I can - no energy loss whatsoever. Of course that is because I have plenty of "reserves," haha.

Well, your understanding is wrong then. Physics doesn't care how the body processes matter or energy, only that the the equations balance in the end (what goes in = what goes out + what is used up). Don't forget, calories can be "used" to provide something leaving the body in physical form just like they go in the body. The calories that go in are going to match the calories that go out if there isn't going to be a change in the mass of the object.
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OurTown

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2018, 02:32:58 PM »
There is a huge internet fight between the "calories in >>> calories out" people and the keto/paleo/lo-carb people.  Just saying "wrong" does not resolve the argument.  There is plenty of good science supporting how carb restriction manipulates insulin levels and kicks the body into ketosis and fat burning.  IF really supercharges this process.  I personally have had great success doing keto and lo-carb, but if other people want to eat differently that's fine with me. 

Dabnasty

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2018, 02:34:28 PM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.

My understanding is that this is not true. The body reacts differently to incoming calories based on insulin response. If you eat something that cannot fuel the brain and bodily functions (very low carb) the body will break down fat reserves to get the fuel. Also if you eat something the body cannot digest, your equation is wrong on its face.

I realize this is a slippery slope and diet is right up there now with politics and religion as banned Thanksgiving conversation.

OP - I have done the IF thing for a while. As of late, it has stopped working for me as well as it once did. I think I am getting lazy and supplementing my fasting time by eating more during feed time. Your post is a reminder to get back on track.

A revelation for me was how good it can feel to be in a fasted state. I used to freak out if I was hungry for an hour or two. After the "hanger" passes, I feel fantastic! I work fasted training in whenever I can - no energy loss whatsoever. Of course that is because I have plenty of "reserves," haha.

I would agree that the equation above isn't quite accurate because it depends on how the calories are "used"

Calories in < calories out = weight loss would be more accurate, but it still oversimplifies a complex process. While the equation may be true, we don't really know what the calories out number is, all we can do is estimate. Add to it that we don't know exactly how the types of foods we eat and when we eat them will effect that number.

We can make a reasonable estimate of the calories out and if you track your calories and stay under that number you should lose weight but not 100% of the time. Variations in thyroid activity, metabolism, even room temperature can effect calories out.

Dabnasty

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2018, 02:47:03 PM »
More on topic I've had interest in fasting but have never really committed to it. My goals are pretty much the opposite in that I don't want to lose weight and sometimes I struggle just to get enough calories. I eat 3000+/day but on weekends I "cheat?" and eat as little as I want.

I'm still interested in fasting for other reasons though. I haven't read up on it for some time but I do remember reading studies showing potential benefits to physical and mental wellbeing and longevity in particular. I think it's extra interesting that it has been incorporated in many religions and I wonder if the origins of religious fasting are based in these benefits.


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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2018, 02:56:05 PM »
Iíve never read up on this topic before so this is interesting.  Iíve always thought of fasting as deprivation and hunger pains. 

Iím going to try the 16:8 approach.  That appeals to my natural way of eating the closest.  Noon to 8 pm is what Iíll go for.  Late night snacking is the hardest and I donít like going to bed hungry but Iíll give this a try for ahwile and see what happens.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2018, 03:37:56 PM »
I've been doing the 16:8 for years but mostly out of laziness. Wake up around 8am, go walk the dog, go do some exercise, presto it's noon and I haven't eaten yet...

mathlete

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2018, 03:44:05 PM »
I had to read this several times in order to realize that 5:2 with 500 calories doesn't mean fasting five days a week and then going 500 calories a day for two days...

Imagine my shock when I CTRL-F'd and found no results yet in the thread for the phrase "starvation"! Lol.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2018, 04:35:39 PM »
I'm aiming for something sustainable as a permanent diet, so I've been experimenting with a very liberal IF baseline of 12:12 but striving for 8:16 when I can.  On work days, instead of having cereal for breakfast I'm just having tea and not eating till lunch, then trying to have supper no later than 8 p.m.  On Saturday the spread is more like 10 a.m. to mid-evening (around 8:30 or 9:00).

I find that if I have a large meal early in the day that's slightly to the protein and fat side (i.e. bacon and eggs with one slice of toast, if any), I can go 6-8 hours before going "Oh.  It's getting dark.  Guess I should eat something."  In general, though, there are no restrictions on what I can eat, just when.

Weight is coming off slowly, but more importantly it's staying off.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2018, 04:55:08 PM »
There was a recent meta study that got a lot of press for finding that no one diet is better than any other at helping people lose weight and keep it off.  What it found was pople who were successful at dieting all had one thing in common: they were able to find a plan that worked for them and they were able to stick to for years.

It sounds like youíve found a plan you can stick to.  Good for you! Who cares if it is a gimmick, as far as diet gimmicks go this one seems pretty unobjectionable.

Keep it up!
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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2018, 08:37:54 PM »
My lifestyle probably isn't considered an intermittent fast, but I incorporate some of the ideas.  Incorporate what you like, and no worries if this sounds horrible, haha! 

Principals of my diet:
  • Only calories I consume each day are within an 8 hour window.  For me, this generally means 11am-7pm
  • Exception is that from wakeup till 11am I drink herbal tea, and I put MCT oil in the tea.  MCT oil is an odorless and tasteless derivative of coconut oil.
  • Around 11am I have a massive salad...spinach, carrots, cabbage, bell peppers, onions, green onions, sunflower seeds, walnuts, almonds, quinoa, black beans, feta cheese, hard boiled egg, and homemade dressing.
  • Afternoon I have a bowl of homemade granola with almond milk.
  • I make peanut butter balls with tons of oatmeal, flax, and chia seeds in them.  Freeze them for snacks throughout the day as well.
  • Dinner time foods vary, but often we make mexican, or asian stir fry, or fish.
  • Tea with MCT oil most common drink in the morning.  Water most common drink after my salad around 11
  • I can deviate from this diet whenever I want.  I just think it's nice to set a good baseline routine.  If it's a family holiday party,
     obviously I'm going to enjoy everyones awesome food, drink some beer, and not worry about what time it is:)  Or if I just can't ake dinner till 8 for whatever reason, who cares.  But 75% of days I'm in my routine.

Why do I do this:
  • I sleep better when I have a healthy and consistent diet
  • digesting food takes a lot of work for the body.  By consuming my calories in a set window, it gives my body large swathes of the 24 hour cycle where it doesn't have to deal with digesting food.
  • The MCT oil is loaded with calories, and is all fat, and because each tablespoon is 130 calories, two little tablespoons throughout the morning is virtually nothing for my body to digest, but it's super filling.  Because it's all fat, there's no insulin needed to be generated to convert sugars, so no energy spikes and dips.  It prevents hunger and gives me steady energy all morning long.
  • Those salads are f#$#ing delicious, and incredibly healthy, and because it's whole food, not processed, again, no big insulin spikes.  Sustains me a long time
  • Because there's vitually nothing processed being bought, my food bills are very reasonable despite eating pretty much nothing but fresh veggies/nuts/seeds/fruits/fish/eggs/a little cheese.

How it simplifies my life:
  • Every Sunday I spend an hour chopping veggies like a champ in the late morning.  Make an enormous salad bar, my whole family eats salad and often even invite the neighbors.  Afterwards I fill up about 8 one-quart mason jars full of salads, and I'm set for salads the whole week long.  Sunday lunch with family/friends + lunches all week for me in one morning.
  • Every few weeks I'll making another gallon of granola...one hour.  This lasts several weeks.
  • Every few weeks I make tons of peanut butter balls...one hour....Again, several weeks worth
  • So basically, all I have to do each day is make dinner, but sometimes my wife will make it, so we spread out the work there.  It basically automates a healthy diet.


SwitchActiveDWG

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2018, 04:29:42 AM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.

My understanding is that this is not true. The body reacts differently to incoming calories based on insulin response. If you eat something that cannot fuel the brain and bodily functions (very low carb) the body will break down fat reserves to get the fuel. Also if you eat something the body cannot digest, your equation is wrong on its face.

I realize this is a slippery slope and diet is right up there now with politics and religion as banned Thanksgiving conversation.

OP - I have done the IF thing for a while. As of late, it has stopped working for me as well as it once did. I think I am getting lazy and supplementing my fasting time by eating more during feed time. Your post is a reminder to get back on track.

A revelation for me was how good it can feel to be in a fasted state. I used to freak out if I was hungry for an hour or two. After the "hanger" passes, I feel fantastic! I work fasted training in whenever I can - no energy loss whatsoever. Of course that is because I have plenty of "reserves," haha.

I would agree that the equation above isn't quite accurate because it depends on how the calories are "used"

Calories in < calories out = weight loss would be more accurate, but it still oversimplifies a complex process. While the equation may be true, we don't really know what the calories out number is, all we can do is estimate. Add to it that we don't know exactly how the types of foods we eat and when we eat them will effect that number.

We can make a reasonable estimate of the calories out and if you track your calories and stay under that number you should lose weight but not 100% of the time. Variations in thyroid activity, metabolism, even room temperature can effect calories out.

But the point is still true, itís entirely about caloric deficit vs surplus. While some eating habits are healthier than others; you will loose weight in a caloric deficit no matter what youíre consuming or how youíre consuming it. Any fighter who does weight cuts can confirm this.

I believe that any temporary fad diet can be counterproductive. Creating eating habits that can be maintained consistently for years and years is my preference.

Defining healthy eating does have variance and I am not saying that intermittent fasting doesnít have a place in a healthy consistent diet.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2018, 06:18:44 AM »
I am not saying that intermittent fasting doesnít have a place in a healthy consistent diet.

The evidence that time restricted eating and/or intermittent fasting & fasting mimicking diets is good for the health of rodents is pretty overwhelming, I would say (reductions in cancer, cardiovascular problems, all cause mortality vs controls with the same caloric input - lots of studies.) Much harder to do those experiments in humans and not all rat/mouse findings transfer to people, but the same mechanisms - autophagy etc. are all present and preliminary studies have given positive looking results.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2018, 06:28:30 AM »
I am not saying that intermittent fasting doesnít have a place in a healthy consistent diet.

The evidence that time restricted eating and/or intermittent fasting & fasting mimicking diets is good for the health of rodents is pretty overwhelming, I would say (reductions in cancer, cardiovascular problems, all cause mortality vs controls with the same caloric input - lots of studies.) Much harder to do those experiments in humans and not all rat/mouse findings transfer to people, but the same mechanisms - autophagy etc. are all present and preliminary studies have given positive looking results.

Yeah, that's a big factor driving me towards consuming most of my calories in a set window each day.  Hopefully as I get better at it I can shrink that window a bit, and add some longer fasts in there.  Regardless, it's fun trying new things and seeing how the body responds.  Our body is an amazing machine. 

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2018, 07:54:02 AM »
There was a recent meta study that got a lot of press for finding that no one diet is better than any other at helping people lose weight and keep it off.  What it found was pople who were successful at dieting all had one thing in common: they were able to find a plan that worked for them and they were able to stick to for years.

It sounds like youíve found a plan you can stick to.  Good for you! Who cares if it is a gimmick, as far as diet gimmicks go this one seems pretty unobjectionable.

Keep it up!

Yes this is how my wife and I feel so far, being a few months into it with results that we were looking for. We've tried so many things - again even just the daily calorie restriction or daily exercise favored by some - but they just ween't sustainable for us. I love the challenge of going almost 36 hours with only one small meal, once even going for the full 36 hours with just water and coffee, because it has been working. And for us it seems to be mentally and physically doable long term - for me, this is easier than a 45 minute HIIT workout...

And from things I've learned on this board - I liked the comment about the growing up being told one MUST eat 3 meals (heck even 5 small meals recently). I have always been "overweight" since 5th grade and this might be contributing... Sort of like how I grew up in a family (as did my wife) where free spending, buying huge houses, new cars, etc was the norm. And we had done that - but we are now are seeing the beauty of cutting back on that too :)

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2018, 08:18:25 AM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in < calories used = weight loss. The laws of physics don't change.  If gimmicks help you make that happen, more power to you.  At least one doctor that was recommending intermittent fasting did their own study which showed it was on par, or worse, in general, compared to consistently eating the same average calorie deficit (I'd link but it's been a while since I looked it up last so I don't remember her name). Others show some positives for it. The general medical advice out there is still that moderate caloric deficit is the most healthy way to lose weight from all the doctors I've talked to/read. So that's what I stick with when losing weight.
It's not quite that simple, as the body has "set point" weights where it likes to stay.

This means that if you are at a set point, simply cutting 100 calories a day won't result in losing 10 lbs a year.  (Conversely, adding 100 cals a day won't make you gain 10 lbs either.)
At a setpoint in both directions, it takes a lot more calorie changes because of the body's efficiency in changing food to heat, or whatever.

I've learned quite a few things like this in my 40-something years on the planet.  It's pretty fascinating.   What works for person A won't necessarily work for person B.  What works for person A when they are 20 might not work when they are 40, and that might not work when they are 60.  Meds, hormones, stress.  Also, the type of calorie matters too.  I can eat more calories if I eat more fat/ fewer carbs, and maintain weight.  (As a woman in my late 40s.)

When I was in my early 30s and losing weight, I was using weight watchers.  Simply cutting calories worked wonders for me, and worked far better for me than my friends in their 60s.  But eventually, I got to my goal weight.  I added calories.  I started dropping weight EVEN FASTER.  Added more calories, eventually found the right number to gain a few lbs back to a comfortable spot and maintain my weight.

My most recent discovery = wheat.  I started having digestive problems with wheat a little over a year ago.  When I eliminated, I dropped about 8 lbs.  I was already at a healthy weight.  I did not cut carbs - I replaced the whole wheat with other carbs, like oats, rice (brown and white), potatoes, corn tortillas.

Back to the OP, intermittent fasting.  It's not really for me.  I've done it here and there, but it's really hard on my body and my brain.  I get light headed and cranky.  Studies show that IF doesn't always work the same for women as men.

Little brief on the setpoint, with a link to the original study.

https://www.foodpolitics.com/2010/01/how-many-extra-calories-cause-weight-gain/
« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 08:25:30 AM by mm1970 »

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2018, 08:57:44 AM »
So I have been practicing intermittent fasting on and off for the last 3 years. When I got married at 22 years old I weighed 230 lbs and in a year got down to 200 lbs without any change in exercise or diet except for changing my eating window to a 10 hour limit. It worked very well. I had to get off of it when I started a hard weight lifting schedule and honestly regret it because I gained a good amount of weight back. I am now on an 8 hour eating window but have really been finding a lot of other benefits to IF besides the weight loss.

The main thing that got me into IF is the results they had on fruit flies and mice who they forced to fast intermittently. They tripled their lifespans!! They explained it as giving the body a chance to take a break so that the digestive system doesn't wear on your cells and body all day long. If my body is a complex machine that makes sense. Give it a break part of the day and it will last longer.

The other thing I love about IF is the fact that it isn't expensive, complicated or time-consuming. There is nothing to buy, nothing to prepare, no mental baggage like when you meal prep and can be done no matter what role or job you have. When I had a strict diet and I had to travel for work, I couldn't maintain my diet or workout schedule. That's not the case with IF.

Learning to IF has allowed me to learn and try different types of fasting. These routines have really helped me learn to detox my body. It's been fun to experiment with this form of lifestyle and I plan on doing more. Check out "The Science of Fasting" documentary on Amazon Prime if you really want to be challenged. I really believe there is so much knowledge we have lost here in the west that we need to re-find.

I really enjoyed and have learned a lot from Thomas DeLauer (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTdelauer). Check out how much weight he lost following IF. Take a look at all the other facets of fasting and how you can use it to live better and longer.

I'll end with this. Our body stores toxins in fat cells, when you fast you break those down and expel them. I don't think there has ever been a time in our history of humans when we have been more exposed to toxins than today and don't want to find out what will happen to us if we don't learn to detox from these regularly. I will veer on the side of safety and practice fasting and IF.
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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2018, 08:59:18 AM »
Calories definitely count but if your body isn't able to burn fat because you are in a constant state of high insulin you will not lose weight.  Fasting or low carb dieting or whatever you choose to do to lower your insulin levels while still being mindful of calories in/calories out seems to work for many people.  Nice job with your success!

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2018, 08:59:29 AM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.

My understanding is that this is not true. The body reacts differently to incoming calories based on insulin response. If you eat something that cannot fuel the brain and bodily functions (very low carb) the body will break down fat reserves to get the fuel. Also if you eat something the body cannot digest, your equation is wrong on its face.

I realize this is a slippery slope and diet is right up there now with politics and religion as banned Thanksgiving conversation.

OP - I have done the IF thing for a while. As of late, it has stopped working for me as well as it once did. I think I am getting lazy and supplementing my fasting time by eating more during feed time. Your post is a reminder to get back on track.

A revelation for me was how good it can feel to be in a fasted state. I used to freak out if I was hungry for an hour or two. After the "hanger" passes, I feel fantastic! I work fasted training in whenever I can - no energy loss whatsoever. Of course that is because I have plenty of "reserves," haha.

I would agree that the equation above isn't quite accurate because it depends on how the calories are "used"

Calories in < calories out = weight loss would be more accurate, but it still oversimplifies a complex process. While the equation may be true, we don't really know what the calories out number is, all we can do is estimate. Add to it that we don't know exactly how the types of foods we eat and when we eat them will effect that number.

We can make a reasonable estimate of the calories out and if you track your calories and stay under that number you should lose weight but not 100% of the time. Variations in thyroid activity, metabolism, even room temperature can effect calories out.

But the point is still true, itís entirely about caloric deficit vs surplus. While some eating habits are healthier than others; you will loose weight in a caloric deficit no matter what youíre consuming or how youíre consuming it. Any fighter who does weight cuts can confirm this.

I believe that any temporary fad diet can be counterproductive. Creating eating habits that can be maintained consistently for years and years is my preference.

Defining healthy eating does have variance and I am not saying that intermittent fasting doesnít have a place in a healthy consistent diet.

It is true, I'm not questioning that but the type of food does impact what constitutes a calorie deficit. Your maintenance calorie requirement can go up or down depending on individual physiology and exercise/eating habits (including timing). Another way to put it; if you're maintenance calorie requirement is 2000/day and you eat 1900, you will lose weight. But that 2000 calorie requirement is not static, the type of food you eat can change that number. If we don't know what our actual maintenance calorie number is, Calories in < calories out doesn't have quite as much meaning.

To be fair the online calculators that take your weight, height, age, sex and activity level and spit out an estimated maintenance calorie requirement are probably close enough for most people, especially if they eat a reasonably healthy diet and are in good health. But say you go on the twinkie diet, your hormones, metabolism and digestive system can be affected.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2018, 09:13:49 AM »
I do a lax version of 16:8 intermittent fasting most weekdays, a habit retained after trying a monthlong IF experiment. I basically don't eat after dinner (beer and wine excluded from this, I did say it was lax), only have a cup of green tea for breakfast, then eat lunch around noon. I'm in decent shape but sometimes struggle with beer related pudginess, and I find I consistently run about 8-10 pounds lighter when on this plan with no other changes to lifestyle. I tolerate it well (don't get cranky or droopy) so it's been easy to stick with. I don't find I need breakfast to go sit in front of a computer.

I'm pretty sure my laxness means I don't really get into the true "fasted state" (14+ hours without calories) too often, so it's probably more about just restricting calories. But hey, that works too. I mean to try mixing in a 24 hour fast once a week to see how that works.

The most beneficial change is that I've broken the habit of needing to eat at regular times or whenever the tiniest hunger pang hits. Turns out hunger is not a crisis, just a sensation you can learn to easily tolerate. I think there is value in experiencing a little voluntary discomfort and building some will power too. It's been particularly interesting traveling with others since starting this. It's kind of amazing how often most people need to eat something and how frantic or cranky they get when that is delayed.

I also find I eat better now and enjoy it more. With just 2 meals a day a bad meal is almost offensive (I wasted a precious meal on that?!). Plus since I love breakfast foods I do breakfast for dinner a couple times a week. Hell yea. 

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2018, 10:19:31 AM »
Man, our plan is almost identical. 

I wonder how much of the benefit I'm losing for the fast by putting a couple tablespoons of oil in my tea in the morning before I have my lunch?

My only true fast is from 7pm to about 8am, so 13 hours.  Then from 8-11am I'm slowly consuming 1-2 tablespoons of MCT oil.  That's a couple hundred calories, but hardly any volume, and very easy for the body to process.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2018, 10:44:52 AM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in < calories used = weight loss. The laws of physics don't change.  If gimmicks help you make that happen, more power to you.  At least one doctor that was recommending intermittent fasting did their own study which showed it was on par, or worse, in general, compared to consistently eating the same average calorie deficit (I'd link but it's been a while since I looked it up last so I don't remember her name). Others show some positives for it. The general medical advice out there is still that moderate caloric deficit is the most healthy way to lose weight from all the doctors I've talked to/read. So that's what I stick with when losing weight.
It's not quite that simple, as the body has "set point" weights where it likes to stay.

This means that if you are at a set point, simply cutting 100 calories a day won't result in losing 10 lbs a year.  (Conversely, adding 100 cals a day won't make you gain 10 lbs either.)
At a setpoint in both directions, it takes a lot more calorie changes because of the body's efficiency in changing food to heat, or whatever.

I've learned quite a few things like this in my 40-something years on the planet.  It's pretty fascinating.   What works for person A won't necessarily work for person B.  What works for person A when they are 20 might not work when they are 40, and that might not work when they are 60.  Meds, hormones, stress.  Also, the type of calorie matters too.  I can eat more calories if I eat more fat/ fewer carbs, and maintain weight.  (As a woman in my late 40s.)

When I was in my early 30s and losing weight, I was using weight watchers.  Simply cutting calories worked wonders for me, and worked far better for me than my friends in their 60s.  But eventually, I got to my goal weight.  I added calories.  I started dropping weight EVEN FASTER.  Added more calories, eventually found the right number to gain a few lbs back to a comfortable spot and maintain my weight.


My most recent discovery = wheat.  I started having digestive problems with wheat a little over a year ago.  When I eliminated, I dropped about 8 lbs.  I was already at a healthy weight.  I did not cut carbs - I replaced the whole wheat with other carbs, like oats, rice (brown and white), potatoes, corn tortillas.

Back to the OP, intermittent fasting.  It's not really for me.  I've done it here and there, but it's really hard on my body and my brain.  I get light headed and cranky.  Studies show that IF doesn't always work the same for women as men.

Little brief on the setpoint, with a link to the original study.

https://www.foodpolitics.com/2010/01/how-many-extra-calories-cause-weight-gain/

YES YES YES!  Are you me? Boy, is this true!  I was plump, but not overweight, in my teens (5'4" 128-130lbs on a small boned frame).  I didn't eat a lot of food, but I ate a lot of crap when I did eat, and I didn't exercise.  Then I went to college and still ate a lot of crap for a couple years, but exercised regularly and lost a ton of weight.  In my late 20s and 30s, I was an inconsistent exerciser, but got much healthier with my eating.  Weight fluctuated, but still seemed to generally follow a pattern... if I lapsed into eating more sugar/simple carbs, I gained a bit.  If not, weight was stable. 

Then came my 40s.  All of a sudden, I could NOT maintain weight eating like I had been.  Unless I dramatically increased sugar/carbs, I lost weight.  Exercise actually made me gain weight if it built muscle, but without that I had to eat like a teenage male wrestler to stay above 100 lbs, which was physically impossible b/c my digestion is so slow.  At the same time, I completely lost my hunger response.  I almost never felt hungry.  I forced myself to eat, even when I had no appetite.  In desperation, I started adding TONS of fat calories to my diet to avoid adding sugar and carbs.  A calorie is a calorie is a calorie, right? Wrong, not with my body!  I was glopping quarter cups...QUARTER CUPS! of olive or nut oils on my food, adding butter, etc....and I COULD NOT GAIN WEIGHT. 

My body stayed stuck at 100-101lbs no matter how many calories I poured on, or how much aerobic exercise I did or did not do. Light weight training could bump it to 103/04lbs, but I had to struggle to maintain that muscle mass.

This continued for 3 full years.  It was kind of scary.  Especially because I have overweight friends and family who I am absolutely certain regularly ate lower calorie than I did, and they couldn't LOSE weight.

Individual bodies most definitely are unique and process food differently.

After about 3 years, I gave up with the oil.  I couldn't take it anymore and went back to eating lower calorie, with moderate fat, high fiber/veggie, moderate protein, low sugar/carbs, just like in my 20s and 30s.  Nothing happened for several months...I didn't gain weight or lose it...I stayed stuck at 100-101 lbs.  Then randomly, with NO CHANGE IN HABITS, I suddenly gained 9lbs in 10 days!  That's almost 1 lb/day! With zero change in diet or exercise habits! 

I mean, WTF?

A calorie is a calorie is a calorie is only true once your body actually uses it, and my body definitely uses different types of foods differently.  In my case, what I've found is that adding tons of fat calories seems to send my metabolism into hyper-compensation to the point that it then burns calories to a counter productive extent.  Adding the equivalent calories in sugar or simple carbs OTOH, will eventually cause me to gain weight, but because I have a sugar processing endocrine disorder, this is not an option for me.  I think a combination of my personal body chemistry, plus hormonal/endocrine disorder, just makes my body run strangely.

So I'm constantly worrying about every damn mouthful of food, and weighing myself daily, just like I did during the periods of my life when I was young and 25lbs heavier.  I was on vacation recently for only 5 days.  I did eat somewhat fewer calories than usual, but the problem was that I ate almost 0 carbs/sugar.  I exercised LESS than usual.  Result?  I DROPPED 1 lb per DAY, and had to struggle for 3 weeks afterward to force my body back up to its healthier, 109lb set point.

I really envy people whose bodies just lose or gain based on any old type of calorie they add or cut.  That would make my life would be a hell of a lot easier.



« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 10:48:23 AM by wenchsenior »

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #32 on: April 15, 2018, 04:06:15 PM »
I'm healthy BMI, but if I found that I'd gained weight, IF would probably be one of the first things I'd try. I've always thought it sounds pretty sensible, and a good way of reducing your calories for CICO if you're bad at remembering to actually count the calories. Plus, it fits in with Mustachianism through Stoicism, because you're experiencing voluntary discomfort, especially the first few times you do it as you get used to feeling hungry. Also, it doesn't require you to buy any special weight-loss food or diet food at a premium, or any special equipment.
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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #33 on: April 15, 2018, 04:11:26 PM »
Just read recently that skipping meals can contribute to gallstone issues.  Anyone have any problems?

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #34 on: April 15, 2018, 04:11:49 PM »
Also, it doesn't require you to buy any special weight-loss food or diet food at a premium, or any special equipment.

That's one of the things I like about it. It actually saves you money as you lose the fat.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #35 on: April 15, 2018, 04:17:27 PM »
I really envy people whose bodies just lose or gain based on any old type of calorie they add or cut.  That would make my life would be a hell of a lot easier.

I'd trade you in a heartbeat for my opposite problem ;-)

The idea that you can eat whatever you want and not worry about weight seems like a dream to me...

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #36 on: April 15, 2018, 04:26:01 PM »
I really envy people whose bodies just lose or gain based on any old type of calorie they add or cut.  That would make my life would be a hell of a lot easier.

I'd trade you in a heartbeat for my opposite problem ;-)

The idea that you can eat whatever you want and not worry about weight seems like a dream to me...

I know, right? I thought that in my youth, too.  Just goes to show.  Now, one bout of gastrointestinal flu and I'm close to hospitalization weight.  I'm quite worried about going into old age this thin, since many of my overweight relatives dwindled to weak twigs as they aged. 

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #37 on: April 15, 2018, 04:53:30 PM »
Iíve had a habit lately of eating cruditťs after small meals. I hate restricting my diet, so my strategy is to add as many healthy choices as possible, to crowd out the bad choices (ex: I sip tea and water all day, so less room for juices and soda), without actually getting rid of bad choices. So if I want pizza, I eat pizza, but maybe just two slices and afterwards I immediately down a platter of cruditťs, 8oz of water, ending with a cup of tea. Not only does it fill me up then and there, but it allows me to go longer between meals without feeling hungry. Plus itís all natural and nothing goes to waste.

Eating large quantities of raw food everyday gives me energy and just gives me an overall sense of wellness (even if I did have that cup of peanut butter and fudge ice cream for breakfast. The complex carbs and fiber in the produce helps regulate my blood sugar and mitigate the damage (both physical and psychological), of having peanut butter fudge ice cream for breakfast.

A typical cruditťs platter (I try to eat 2 a day, after each normal meal; yes, typically it keeps me full enough that I only have to eat twice per day):

- bed of mixed super greens  (spinach, baby kale, Swiss chard, arugula etc)
- 1 whole carrot, halved
- 2 6-inch pieces of celery
- 3 radishes
- a few pieces of broccoli (blanched, because too raw does bad things to my tummy...Iíll dip a whole head in boiling water for up to a minute, and cut from that for the week)
- beets (pickled, because I canít stand the taste of raw beets)
-  1-2 servings of fruit (citrus if meal contained a lot of cholesterol
- sometimes if I had a light meal beforehand, Iíll include a healthful fat, such as nuts, or a hard boiled egg, or some avocado.

Except for occasionally some thin sliced cucumber in a baggie with black and cayenne pepper, garlic salt, olive oil and vinegar, I donít eat dressings with the cruditťs. It took a while to ďreprogramĒ myself to appreciate natural flavors (vs ďnaturalĒ flavoring and other flavor additives) again, but now I am addicted to the fresh and simple flavors and textures and focus on eating each ingredient, one at a time (rinsing my mouth with sips of water from my bottle between each vegetable/fruit). I work from home so can take my time, crunching and munching for as long as I want. It can take me as long as 30 min to get through a platter (takes longer to chew raw food than cooked). Being forced to slowly eat also allows my brain to catch up with my stomach.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #38 on: April 15, 2018, 05:43:03 PM »
The people who can stick with the intermittent fasting programs have more self-discipline than I do. It appears that the health benefits are well established, so if you can pull it off, great!

I tried it a couple of times when experimenting with my diet, and while I found I was able to tolerate 600 calorie days, it was not a fun experience.

After more digging, I came across evidence that much of the benefits from caloric restriction come from protein restriction:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/caloric-restriction-vs-plant-based-diets/

Specifically animal protein restriction:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/caloric-restriction-vs-animal-protein-restriction/

I've ended up with a mostly plant based diet to get rid of weight and improve the numbers on my blood work. I didn't think I'd be able to stick with that to be honest, but having a one day a month eat-anything-I-please escape hatch has helped. But what has really helped is that my body has re-programmed my brain to crave eating more whole plant foods. Things I once fantasized about (KFC, fried eggs) are now quite disgusting to me.

My bet is that a combination of a plant focused diet with some intermittent fasting would be better still, but I have yet to see a study on that.

As for the argument that weight gain is simply a physical process that involves the energy balance of calories, well, remarkably enough there's evidence that this is not the case:

Correlational study: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/chicken-big-poultry-and-obesity/

Experimental: https://nutritionfacts.org/video/chicken-big-poultry-and-obesity/

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2018, 06:16:43 PM »
Basically you are eating one healthy meal two days a week and thatís all you eat for the day?

Thatís so great you both did this together and had such wonderful results.  Iíve been working out almost every day for months now and I love how strong I feel but man I feel like it makes me hungry all the time.  I lose weight by diet alone and none at all when I work out. I love the strength I have but I want to drop a few pounds. Iím whining here but this is what happens with me. I hate being hungry and I will just eat enough to stop the hunger pains but then I find Iím eating every 2-3 hours.  On the rare occasion my stomach is empty but I donít feel hungry I wonít eat but thatís not every often. Iím healthy but I think Iím obsessed with the number on the scale which I should ignore. A few pounds ago was my lowest ever adult weight and I havenít seen that number in a month.  But yet I am more lean and I feel great. I just want that number back and Iím thinking the only way I can do that and still work out is to go hungry for longer stretches.

How big is that one salad on those days, are you hungry soon after?  I am intrigued by this fasting stuff and Iím assuming you can adjust so you donít feel like youíre depriving yourself?

I started fasting a few years ago, and I definitely noticed a decrease in appetite both during fasting days and on non-fasting days. Now I often forget to eat at the normal times, and end up skip lunch because it's 3pm when I realize I haven't eaten as I never noticed I was hungry and at that point I might as well just wait till supper. That said it took a while to get to that state. So yes it should help with you constantly eating/feeling hungry but expect there to be a transition period, I think it took 1-2 months for me.

A lot of it I think is probably mental, once you've fasted for longer periods of time you realize what actual hunger is and so get less bothered by what you currently think of as hunger when you haven't eaten in a few hours.

If you wanted to try it out, you could google the Warrior Diet as it's generally seen as more suited to a heavy workout then the 5:2 diet. Essentially you fast every day for 16-20 hours, workout, then get all your calories in the remaining 4-8 hours.

If you feel hungry every few hours you might also want to look into what you eat and how much water you drink. Drinking more water helps a lot with feeling full, and eating less carbs but more fat/protein would also help keep you feeling full.

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2018, 06:17:41 PM »

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Whoa!! Super great idea! I'm using glass Pyrex bowls and whatnot...but the idea of a ready made salad in a jar is fantastic.
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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2018, 06:24:20 PM »
Calories in < calories used = weight loss.
This is a very misleading statement that implies weight loss is a simple as eating less. Gary Taubes wrote a great research book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and in it he mentions how if it were that simple just eating 25 or so extra calories a day would add up to over 20 pounds of weight gain over a decade. That doesn't happen though because our metabolism is an incredibly advanced system. The types of calories eaten can, and do, influence metabolism. There are plenty of other factors that influence metabolism that we still don't thoroughly understand.
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MarciaB

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2018, 06:26:10 PM »
I'm also experimenting with IF, and what I'm doing is a 24-hour fast where you go from dinner on one night, to dinner the following night...no breakfast or lunch. Today was the first time I went all 24 hours, over the past couple of months I've managed an 18 or 22 hour fast. I started this after looking at the website Eat Stop Eat.

Because for me it's not the physical hunger that matters (because there isn't much really), it's the psychological thing that gets in my way. Habits and rules (you must eat breakfast!) are hard to break. And looking at my watch to see what time it is gets annoying (why? no one is starving here people, seriously, there's plenty to live off of).

I find that it helps with weight loss in a way that doesn't feel like constantly having to decide what to eat. You just eat healthful foods the other days (which I do anyway, but just too much of them). My tolerance for portion size goes down too, which is helpful.

In short - easy to do and effective (for me at any rate).
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jlcnuke

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2018, 06:26:34 PM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in &lt; calories used = weight loss.
This is a very inaccurate and misleading statement that implies weight loss is a simple as eating less. Gary Taubes wrote a great research book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and in it he mentions how if it were that simple just eating 25 or so extra calories a day would add up to over 20 pounds of weight gain over a decade. That doesn't happen though because our metabolism is an incredibly advanced system. The types of calories eaten can, and do, influence metabolism. There are plenty of other factors that influence metabolism that we still don't thoroughly understand.
You don't seem to understand how calories are used... Calories in less than calories out works 100% of the time. A change in metabolism changes how calories are used, not the facts of physics.

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Sorinth

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2018, 06:27:50 PM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in < calories used = weight loss. The laws of physics don't change.  If gimmicks help you make that happen, more power to you.  At least one doctor that was recommending intermittent fasting did their own study which showed it was on par, or worse, in general, compared to consistently eating the same average calorie deficit (I'd link but it's been a while since I looked it up last so I don't remember her name). Others show some positives for it. The general medical advice out there is still that moderate caloric deficit is the most healthy way to lose weight from all the doctors I've talked to/read. So that's what I stick with when losing weight.

This isn't really true. There are many factors that go into weight loss/gain that go beyond calories in vs calories out. You can for instance build muscle while shedding fat using IF, which from a calories in/out situation should be impossible. That said for the vast majority of people it doesn't make much of a difference and looking at total calories for the week is more then good enough.

There are plenty of studies that show IF is better then a constant caloric deficit, but the truth is there simply aren't enough good human studies to come to a consensus. It's likely not going to be a big difference in terms of weightloss either way but there are also a number of other health benefits beyond weight loss that make IF an attractive option. In the end the best weight loss diet is the one you stick to.

jlcnuke

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2018, 06:29:49 PM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in &lt; calories used = weight loss. The laws of physics don't change.  If gimmicks help you make that happen, more power to you.  At least one doctor that was recommending intermittent fasting did their own study which showed it was on par, or worse, in general, compared to consistently eating the same average calorie deficit (I'd link but it's been a while since I looked it up last so I don't remember her name). Others show some positives for it. The general medical advice out there is still that moderate caloric deficit is the most healthy way to lose weight from all the doctors I've talked to/read. So that's what I stick with when losing weight.

This isn't really true. There are many factors that go into weight loss/gain that go beyond calories in vs calories out. You can for instance build muscle while shedding fat using IF, which from a calories in/out situation should be impossible. That said for the vast majority of people it doesn't make much of a difference and looking at total calories for the week is more then good enough.

There are plenty of studies that show IF is better then a constant caloric deficit, but the truth is there simply aren't enough good human studies to come to a consensus. It's likely not going to be a big difference in terms of weightloss either way but there are also a number of other health benefits beyond weight loss that make IF an attractive option. In the end the best weight loss diet is the one you stick to.
No, it really is true. Unless you've found the secret to creating energy or matter from nothing (in violation of the rules of our universe as we know then), then you just simply don't understand what is happening.

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Mr. Green

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2018, 06:35:11 PM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in &lt; calories used = weight loss.
This is a very inaccurate and misleading statement that implies weight loss is a simple as eating less. Gary Taubes wrote a great research book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and in it he mentions how if it were that simple just eating 25 or so extra calories a day would add up to over 20 pounds of weight gain over a decade. That doesn't happen though because our metabolism is an incredibly advanced system. The types of calories eaten can, and do, influence metabolism. There are plenty of other factors that influence metabolism that we still don't thoroughly understand.
You don't seem to understand how calories are used... Calories in less than calories out works 100% of the time. A change in metabolism changes how calories are used, not the facts of physics.

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I fully understand the physics. The statement is still a simplification that is commonly used to imply, "Just eat less," which is isn't how it works completely.
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jlcnuke

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2018, 06:38:28 PM »
I'm not into fad diets. Calories in &lt; calories used = weight loss.
This is a very inaccurate and misleading statement that implies weight loss is a simple as eating less. Gary Taubes wrote a great research book called "Good Calories, Bad Calories" and in it he mentions how if it were that simple just eating 25 or so extra calories a day would add up to over 20 pounds of weight gain over a decade. That doesn't happen though because our metabolism is an incredibly advanced system. The types of calories eaten can, and do, influence metabolism. There are plenty of other factors that influence metabolism that we still don't thoroughly understand.
You don't seem to understand how calories are used... Calories in less than calories out works 100% of the time. A change in metabolism changes how calories are used, not the facts of physics.

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I fully understand the physics. The statement is still a simplification that is commonly used to imply, "Just eat less," which is isn't how it works completely.
The statement I made is factual. Claims that it isn't are not.  You can eat next to nothing today and gain weight, you can eat like a pig today and lose weight. None of that changes the fact that calories in less than calories out will result in weight loss.

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Adam Zapple

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2018, 07:57:28 PM »
My lifestyle probably isn't considered an intermittent fast, but I incorporate some of the ideas.  Incorporate what you like, and no worries if this sounds horrible, haha! 

Principals of my diet:
  • Only calories I consume each day are within an 8 hour window.  For me, this generally means 11am-7pm
  • Exception is that from wakeup till 11am I drink herbal tea, and I put MCT oil in the tea.  MCT oil is an odorless and tasteless derivative of coconut oil.
  • Around 11am I have a massive salad...spinach, carrots, cabbage, bell peppers, onions, green onions, sunflower seeds, walnuts, almonds, quinoa, black beans, feta cheese, hard boiled egg, and homemade dressing.
  • Afternoon I have a bowl of homemade granola with almond milk.
  • I make peanut butter balls with tons of oatmeal, flax, and chia seeds in them.  Freeze them for snacks throughout the day as well.
  • Dinner time foods vary, but often we make mexican, or asian stir fry, or fish.
  • Tea with MCT oil most common drink in the morning.  Water most common drink after my salad around 11
  • I can deviate from this diet whenever I want.  I just think it's nice to set a good baseline routine.  If it's a family holiday party,
     obviously I'm going to enjoy everyones awesome food, drink some beer, and not worry about what time it is:)  Or if I just can't ake dinner till 8 for whatever reason, who cares.  But 75% of days I'm in my routine.

Why do I do this:
  • I sleep better when I have a healthy and consistent diet
  • digesting food takes a lot of work for the body.  By consuming my calories in a set window, it gives my body large swathes of the 24 hour cycle where it doesn't have to deal with digesting food.
  • The MCT oil is loaded with calories, and is all fat, and because each tablespoon is 130 calories, two little tablespoons throughout the morning is virtually nothing for my body to digest, but it's super filling.  Because it's all fat, there's no insulin needed to be generated to convert sugars, so no energy spikes and dips.  It prevents hunger and gives me steady energy all morning long.
  • Those salads are f#$#ing delicious, and incredibly healthy, and because it's whole food, not processed, again, no big insulin spikes.  Sustains me a long time
  • Because there's vitually nothing processed being bought, my food bills are very reasonable despite eating pretty much nothing but fresh veggies/nuts/seeds/fruits/fish/eggs/a little cheese.

How it simplifies my life:
  • Every Sunday I spend an hour chopping veggies like a champ in the late morning.  Make an enormous salad bar, my whole family eats salad and often even invite the neighbors.  Afterwards I fill up about 8 one-quart mason jars full of salads, and I'm set for salads the whole week long.  Sunday lunch with family/friends + lunches all week for me in one morning.
  • Every few weeks I'll making another gallon of granola...one hour.  This lasts several weeks.
  • Every few weeks I make tons of peanut butter balls...one hour....Again, several weeks worth
  • So basically, all I have to do each day is make dinner, but sometimes my wife will make it, so we spread out the work there.  It basically automates a healthy diet.

Can you post the recipe for the peanut butter balls?  I used to make peanut butter brownies from PB, honey, eggs, baking soda and butter.  Your snacks sound more interesting.

cerat0n1a

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Re: Intermittent fasting experience: both effective and mustaschian
« Reply #49 on: April 16, 2018, 12:14:38 AM »
No, it really is true. Unless you've found the secret to creating energy or matter from nothing (in violation of the rules of our universe as we know then), then you just simply don't understand what is happening.

You're making several assumptions there - the main one being that the only way for mass to leave the body is by being burned it as fuel, which is simply not true. The body is perfectly capable of getting rid of both liquids and solids without violating any of the laws of thermodynamics.

As a simple example, the human body is typically around 60% water, but there's wide variation in that number and the prostaglandin set of hormones regulate fluid levels. Some people can have 10+ kg of excess fluid stored in cavities, body tissues etc. Dealing with that can give a significant weight loss in spite of the zero calorific value of the water.