Interesting article on the affordable housing shortage . . .

[seattlecyclone]

Government can use its own resources (land it owns), taxpayer resources (building homes itself) or administrative and legal powers (restricting private sector development unless it has an element of affordable housing) -

1.  Make public land available to developers cheaply, subject to its being built on to provide (legally enforceable) affordable housing to buy or rent.

This can be a great solution. We're doing this in several spots in Seattle, giving surplus land to non-profits housing developers (Habitat for Humanity, operators of permanently supportive rentals, etc.) to build income-restricted housing. Every little bit helps.

Habitat was given some lots in a fancy-pants subdivision near me. It's a great idea. I'm sure it's keeping the residents up at night. :)

Don't get me started. One particular plot of land was part of an old army base, and was made available to the city for just $1 if used for low-income housing or another public purpose. Many of the residents in the mostly wealthy neighborhood nearby pulled out all the stops to tie the deal up in 13 years of red tape.

[TheContinentalOp]

Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

two of her children are adopted

If you are making U$9/hr., you probably shouldn't adopt.

[OtherJen]

Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

two of her children are adopted

If you are making U$9/hr., you probably shouldn't adopt.

I mean, if you'd read the article...

Goodman had fled an abusive marriage in 2015, and she was anxious to give her family a more stable home environment. She thought they’d finally found one.


[cloudsail]

While I think the lack of affordable housing in big cities is a real problem, I don't think this lady is a great illustration of this issue. I mean, she has four biological children and two adopted ones. The two adopted kids were abandoned at birth. I can't help feeling like she should've just let them go into the system and be adopted by families who can actually afford to raise them. Plenty of families looking to adopt babies.

Imagine how many more options she would have if she only had one or two kids to support. I realize you can't turn back time, but what does that say to people who are actually trying to make responsible family planning decisions? "Just have all the kids you want, some government agency is going to help you support them"?

[cloudsail]

Ideas that would help people like this woman in the future, but won't help her specifically right now.


1. Free birth control. Her situation would be a lot more manageable if she had fewer or no kids.

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.



Combining 1 & 2. There was another thread about the cost of home health care services in Maine. If she weren't burdened with all those kids, she could more easily relocate to Maine where she could earn 2x-4x as much as she is making right now.

two of her children are adopted

If you are making U$9/hr., you probably shouldn't adopt.

I mean, if you'd read the article...

Goodman had fled an abusive marriage in 2015, and she was anxious to give her family a more stable home environment. She thought they’d finally found one.


If her ex can't provide any sort of child support, they probably weren't in a financial position to raise six children even when they were married.

[partgypsy]

If she fled an abusive domestic situation, shouldn't she at least get child support? I read that 61% of child support is partial or none, but is she getting anything? If not time to go to court. I do feel bad for her.

[ecchastang]

Even Walmart and Target have a higher minimum wage than $9 per hour.

[Zamboni]

If she fled an abusive domestic situation, shouldn't she at least get child support? I read that 61% of child support is partial or none, but is she getting anything? If not time to go to court. I do feel bad for her.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

Have you ever tried to get any kind of help through the county system? Because I have. It sucks with a capital S.

I did it when my highly paid ex-didn't pay court ordered child support for over 10 months. The county office is open M-F 9-4, so you spend half a work day sitting in their office waiting for them to call your number only to be told you don't have some piece of required information (even though you are fully literate, like me, and brought everything it said you needed online). So, you leave and come back another day and do it all again. Meanwhile, maybe you aren't getting paid for this time you are taking off from work? Isn't the gig economy great? Then, once you get it all submitted, you are told they will get back to you. And months and months then go by without being contacted or even knowing if you have a court date or if they lost your paperwork entirely. And if baby daddy is in prison, or working for cash under the table, or disappeared, or unemployed, or self employed? Well, then maybe they can't get money out of him. There are dozens of reasons that women don't receive proper child support.

The closest you have come to what you are suggesting she should do was when you stood in line at the DMV for 20 minutes. Imagine that times 1000. And then you will possibly begin understand why the working poor don't end up getting help. But most people still won't get it, I'm afraid. You have to experience some taste of it to even begin to understand.

[Cassie]

Zamboni, you described the situation perfectly.  Cloud, black babies actually have a hard time getting adopted so there aren’t lots of people that wanted them.

[Morning Glory]

If she fled an abusive domestic situation, shouldn't she at least get child support? I read that 61% of child support is partial or none, but is she getting anything? If not time to go to court. I do feel bad for her.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

Have you ever tried to get any kind of help through the county system? Because I have. It sucks with a capital S.

I did it when my highly paid ex-didn't pay court ordered child support for over 10 months. The county office is open M-F 9-4, so you spend half a work day sitting in their office waiting for them to call your number only to be told you don't have some piece of required information (even though you are fully literate, like me, and brought everything it said you needed online). So, you leave and come back another day and do it all again. Meanwhile, maybe you aren't getting paid for this time you are taking off from work? Isn't the gig economy great? Then, once you get it all submitted, you are told they will get back to you. And months and months then go by without being contacted or even knowing if you have a court date or if they lost your paperwork entirely. And if baby daddy is in prison, or working for cash under the table, or disappeared, or unemployed, or self employed? Well, then maybe they can't get money out of him. There are dozens of reasons that women don't receive proper child support.

The closest you have come to what you are suggesting she should do was when you stood in line at the DMV for 20 minutes. Imagine that times 1000. And then you will possibly begin understand why the working poor don't end up getting help. But most people still won't get it, I'm afraid. You have to experience some taste of it to even begin to understand.

This.

And a word on the SNAP: when my homeless relatives came to stay with me last year they lost their SNAP benefits because they were asked to report my and hubby's income. I did make sure the kids were fed and had a clean place to sleep though. It was stressful for everyone being doubled up like that.

We need to fund clean and safe public housing for everyone who needs it, regardless of their past mistakes, or this problem will only get worse.

[Bloop Bloop]

Sounds to me the lady featured in the article didn't want to change jobs, wasn't willing to innovate, wanted to keep her childhood roots, and also didn't want to uproot the children, or live with anyone else.

Well, you can't always have things exactly the way you wanted them.

She wanted to keep her children in their schools, that seems reasonable to me.  She had a disrupted childhood (rejected by her mother, raised by her grandfather's girlfriend), it's not surprising if she wants to hang on to what roots she has.  She's a black woman with a disrupted childhood, she probably had disrupted schooling in a poor neighbourhood and has few if any qualifications, what job do you think she has a chance of changing to and is she really at the best time for losing the one bit of economic security she has?  And five people on a mattress on the floor among the bedbugs plus unpaid work and emotional abuse with no security of tenure is not just "living with someone else", is it?

The lack of understanding and willingness to dismiss reality for this woman is breathtaking.

Not to mention she is doing a job for which there is very much a need, and for which there will be even more of a need going forward.

But no, she’s just a wart on society’s ass who didn’t bother to “innovate.”

If she is doing a job for which there is very much a need, I am sure she is not permanently tied to the same location, same employer, same community, etc. She seems to have a whole set of unique requirements. That's fine, but you can't expect society to meet every one of your unique requirements.

[Bloop Bloop]

The other thing is, why did the article writer cherry pick this lady to prove a political point?

She:
- Has six kids.
- Adopted two of them.
- Happens to have deep family/community ties which are apparently unseverable.
- Works for bare bottom minimum wage.
- Doesn't get child support.
- Doesn't have any transferable skills or ability to upskill apparently.

It's like hitting the lottery of unfortunate situations.

Good on her for keeping on trying. But you have to understand that society is not going to cater for every exigency, other than providing a welfare safety net, which it is doing. Trying to do anything but get by on a min-wage job with six kids is not going to work out in almost any jurisdiction. That's because having six kids on a single min wage doesn't work out. It's not heartless of me to say that. It's simple addition, subtraction and multiplication.

[OtherJen]

The other thing is, why did the article writer cherry pick this lady to prove a political point?

She:
- Has six kids.
- Adopted two of them.
- Happens to have deep family/community ties which are apparently unseverable.
- Works for bare bottom minimum wage.
- Doesn't get child support.
- Doesn't have any transferable skills or ability to upskill apparently.

It's like hitting the lottery of unfortunate situations.

Good on her for keeping on trying. But you have to understand that society is not going to cater for every exigency, other than providing a welfare safety net, which it is doing. Trying to do anything but get by on a min-wage job with six kids is not going to work out in almost any jurisdiction. That's because having six kids on a single min wage doesn't work out. It's not heartless of me to say that. It's simple addition, subtraction and multiplication.

Yet again, directly from the article:

Goodman had fled an abusive marriage in 2015, and she was anxious to give her family a more stable home environment. She thought they’d finally found one.


Presumably she didn't have four kids and adopt two more as a single parent on a min wage income. She ended up in that position. Sounds like her ex is a deadbeat who doesn't bother with child support.

[cloudsail]

I remember reading about the efforts of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to educate rural villages in Africa about the fact that having more kids does not equal more prosperity. Infant and child mortality is high there, but their research showed that even in places without access to good healthcare, if you have less children and focus your efforts more on the ones you already have, you can drastically improve their chances and everyone will be better off.

I really feel like we need this kind of education right in our own country, but can't because of religious and cultural push back.

[Zamboni]

Well, that and a political agenda that is diametrically opposed to offering any sort of sex education or family planning services.

By the way, minimum wage in Georgia is $7.25 and hour. She does not earn minimum wage.

[Villanelle]

Very hard article to read.  Halfway through, I'm thinking -- I'll cosign for her!  (Dave Ramsey will shoot me.)

There was an article in my city about a woman who was living alone with her children, she had bought her own house, and then two of her relatives were killed.  Paying for the funerals took her money and she lost her house.  I understand that she did not have to pay for the funerals, but the sense of commitment to a family member is strong, I get it.  I wonder if the funeral industry has any way to help also. What are they doing?

I had no idea this happens.  A FB friend / school family lost her sister and she posted a facebook fundraiser asking for money for her mom to bury her sister.  I didn't know how to respond to that one, I haven't given yet, but I should. I should.  It is crazy to think that funerals can upset the surviving family's finances. 

In this article, I see no reason why you'd have a big attachment to a $9/hour job that requires travel.  I mean really, aren't there other jobs in Atlanta that are easy to get and pay around the same?

However, these landlords are creeps.  I feel like going into landlording and providing safe affordable homes.  My husband would not want to take the risk.  It is rough working in rough neighborhoods.  OK, what about the fringe of rough neighborhoods?

I wonder if we could crowdsource a affordable housing program, and help one struggling family at a time.  Who is doing this?  I can throw a couple starfish back in the ocean.

I also feel like contacting a lawyer I know in GA with this article to get his read on it.  The lawmakers in the area should be ashamed.

I am not yet rich and stable enough to buy people houses, but I would like to be able to.  The story of the woman in my area who lost her home was very difficult as well.

Broken families have a lot to do with this.  Strong, committed two-parent families help a lot, they are such a blessing even in rough economic conditions.  Abuse, drugs, alcohol all mess up families so bad.

Also --- where are the Atlanta churches who will help her?????   Hello?

@Another Reader -- got any ideas here?

Here is the article from my city on blacklining.  A very informative read:
https://projects.jsonline.com/news/2019/7/10/murder-in-milwaukee-segregation-shapes-racial-disparities-and-crime.html

To me, the funeral industry is pretty comparable to the wedding industry.

It's a borderline scam.  You don't need customized golf tee wedding favors and a $1000 dress.  And you don't need an expensive coffin (or any coffin at all) and a pretty room in a fancy funeral parlor.  Your loved one is no less dead if they have a simple memorial service.  If what you can afford is a nice afternoon at the courthouse, that's what you do.  If what you can afford is cremation and gathering with family in someone's living room to remember great times with Uncle Ed, that's what you do.  IMO, you don't GoFund me and pass the obligation on to friends and family for something that isn't at all necessary. 

[mm1970]

If her ex can't provide any sort of child support, they probably weren't in a financial position to raise six children even when they were married.

That's a stretch, don't you think?  I mean, it's not like there are plenty of stories of fathers who bail, or marriages that end, where the parent flat out refuses to pay child support.  Rich ones even.  Middle class ones even.  I have a story...friend middle class engineer, husband a business owner.  He had plenty o' money but was in arrears in child support.  So whatever, she stretched and made it work.  He took her to small claims court for something and judge said "hey, is he in arrears in child support?"  Yup.  That's when he learned the court can seize his pre-paid business taxes to give to his ex for child support.  Dummy.

In any event, they had six kids, and I'm thinking that maybe the state would not have allowed them to adopt if they weren't in a position to raise them, but what do I know eh?  Too late, they've got the six kids.  I fucking don't understand why people want to go back and analyze ancient history...who gives a fuck.

While I think the lack of affordable housing in big cities is a real problem, I don't think this lady is a great illustration of this issue. I mean, she has four biological children and two adopted ones. The two adopted kids were abandoned at birth. I can't help feeling like she should've just let them go into the system and be adopted by families who can actually afford to raise them. Plenty of families looking to adopt babies.

Imagine how many more options she would have if she only had one or two kids to support. I realize you can't turn back time, but what does that say to people who are actually trying to make responsible family planning decisions? "Just have all the kids you want, some government agency is going to help you support them"?

Do you really?  Sounds like maybe not.


I mean, I've got other stories, like narcissistic abusive exes who cheat and leave and refuse to pay child support to the disabled wife and mother of 3.  I mean, that's after the entire family lost a bunch of weight from not having enough income and SNAP not being enough.  What do you do?  Give back the 3 teenaged daughters?  I'd like to point out that abusive ex spouse was career military (until he wasn't anymore), and they had an old farmhouse with a garden and chickens.  As long as he was employed, they were just fine.  When he was no longer employed, there was no job, no money, and not enough food.  This was a good 16 years of "being enough", until it wasn't.

It's like people have never met someone who has hit hard times...ever.  I mean, I have met my share of people who are lazy, don't work, and make a host of bad decisions.  They are outnumbered by people who have been downsized, outsourced, injured, widowed, abandoned. 

This is an anecdote, that is one way of explaining the DATA that there's not enough affordable housing in this country.  People see the data and say "I don't believe it, it makes so sense!"  Then you describe the anecdotes and say "well we can't help EVERYONE".  Like, meh, I've got mine, who cares they are just dumb.

[CanuckExpat]

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.

This is a home health aid who is presumably providing services to relative immobile elderly, and probably being directly or indirectly paid from some government coffers. Higher wages will come at the expense of reduced services, or increased fees to the person receiving the home health care, or from general government funds. That sounds like asking for a direct or indirect tax increase, with reduced efficiency 

Like others have said about other things: "there's no such thing as a free lunch", and "for every complex problem, there's a simple solution, the wrong one"

[seattlecyclone]

2.  Put in place planning laws that require permissions for open market housing to include an element of affordable housing or a subsidy towards affordable housing.

We're also doing this in Seattle, but I'm less enamored with the policy. If you make housing more expensive to build, you also make housing more expensive to buy or rent. There's no free lunch. Developers aren't going to just accept a lower profit margin to make this policy work. No, they'll instead wait to build until population growth pushes rents up high enough for a new building to once again be a sufficiently lucrative return on their capital.

While the required affordable homes (or taxes in lieu) do provide much-needed low-income housing, they also squeeze everyone paying market prices just a bit harder. We saw the family in this article asked for help at one point, but they weren't quite homeless/mentally ill/unemployed enough for the limited supply of below-market housing. More revenue for this purpose would make it more likely that she could get help someday, but it won't happen overnight. Let's not make it harder on her in the meantime.

Good point. Of course, like others have mentioned, the new apartments going up are more luxury than middle-class anyway. There's just more profit margin to be had.

More profit margin, or any profit margin? Land and labor and building materials are all rather expensive. Real estate development is a competitive enterprise, with lots of players bidding against each other for everything. If most of the contractors in town are tied up on luxury projects, and the land is selling for luxury prices, fat chance that you're going to make any money making the same thing as everyone else but minus the granite countertops and marketing it to people at the median income.

What can work for making new middle-class housing is competing on volume: more, smaller units in the same space. I've seen some of that working pretty well around here. But you know what? A lot of the same people who speak out against new, fancy condos also speak out against the new, less fancy small apartments. They use different reasons each time ("it's not affordable enough" vs. "small apartments are inhumane, where will they park?"), but really it's usually just an instance of "I got mine, now nobody else should be able to move in and change things."

Really, a lot of the new "luxury apartments" I see marketed aren't anything special. They're just new. Wait 10-20 years for styles to change and materials to age and they'll just be "apartments." Just as you shouldn't expect to afford a new car if you're not making very much money, I don't think we should be surprised or disappointed when the new homes are more expensive than the used ones. But you know what? If you stop building new homes because they're too expensive, we'll be left without enough used ones a generation from now. This is basically what San Francisco did. Don't be like San Francisco.

[CanuckExpat]

Government can also kick the @sses of the slumlords who provide housing with electrical problems and standing water.

Again, in all fairness, this is easier said than done. Taking substandard housing off the market still increases overall housing costs, or you make it expensive enough and they are going to raise the rents or sell to someone more affluent. Safety is important, but there is a reason people will live in a slum when it is the only affordable choice.

You can't regulate your way out of a lack of supply.

[WhiteTrashCash]

Mostly this problem is related to people not wanting to do what is necessary to be successful. I lived in a rented room from Craigslist for two years (with a shared bathroom) so I could save up money for an apartment in a nice area. Which I then upgraded to purchasing a nice suburban house. Instead, everybody is crying and frozen in place like a deer in headlights and demanding that somebody come save them.

[KBecks]

The woman in the article adopted two of her six children.  I think she has made sacrifices and is likely trying her best.

[jlcnuke]

The woman makes $9/hour and was paying almost $12000/year in rent at the initial house. She's more of a badass than most on here.

I'm sure she'd love a coding job at $25 an hour. If only she'd send out resumes, amirite? Why don't the poor just get a better job?


==> The real solution, even though it pains people, was mentioned in the article: more affordable housing.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

Yeah, why can't poor people just go and get a better paying job? It's like they WANT to work for lower wages! Just stop being poor already.

While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Ok, so what do we do now? Shrug and scold her, "If only you didn't have so many children when you were 20!"

Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

It's unclear whether you even finished the article.

"Today, only one in four households poor enough to qualify for rental assistance actually receives it."


But, since you can solve this problem, maybe you should contact The New Republic and figure it out for this family and others in their situation. It sounds like you can solve housing insecurity for all of Atlanta in short order.

It's unclear if you even read my response and the article, or if you're just emotional about the basic story. She's making $9/hour in a career that averages more than 50% higher than that where she lives with active ads online trying to offer people $15/hour to do the job she's already doing. Are you telling me she's incapable of getting the job she has, in the location she lives in, while other employers in that area are hiring for her job? I'm not saying go become a rocket scientist overnight, I'm saying take one of the jobs that pays better, is available in her area, and is hiring right now for significantly (to her) more money. Holy hell, it's like some people are so caught up in the "not everyone can start making $100k/year tomorrow" that you've forgotten that there are steps between minimum wage and a 6-figure income that can be taken for most people.

"What do we do now", how about find out "the rest of the story" before assuming anything. Is there $1,200 in child support coming in every month and the article glossed over it because the woman is bad with money? Is the reason that the only assistance they discussed was going to a charity she didn't qualify for because she didn't know her other options? Is the reason that only 1 in 4 households who qualify for assistance getting it because they're being wrongfully denied? because they didn't even ask for it? because the funding isn't there?

I don't have the answers to any of those questions because the article was busy pointing blame in one direction only and ignored most of the relevant information. As such, I can't say what might be a better way to help out people with her situation, choices, and current assistance available to people in her situation, much less consider what the appropriate manner to address shortfalls in assistance might be.

I'm sure some people feel they don't need to understand more than 5% of the relevant information to determine a course of action, I refer to those people with terms that aren't appropriate on a forum like this however...

[jlcnuke]

If she fled an abusive domestic situation, shouldn't she at least get child support? I read that 61% of child support is partial or none, but is she getting anything? If not time to go to court. I do feel bad for her.

Or she could get another job as a home health aid and make almost twice as much. Tons of places in the Atlanta area hiring at $15+/hour for that job. Sticking with a $9/hour job is a choice.

While I have sympathy for them, and don't want to make any specific judgments, but with 5 kids there should be plenty of child support to pay for rent and then some without touching her income, and if the ex-spouse can't afford that then it's almost certain that they couldn't afford the kids when they had them. There's a lot to this story that we don't have, and I'm sure that a decent amount of it is choices that have put her in this situation.

Where's the child support? How much is SNAP providing for support for food? How much is she getting in rental assistance from the many groups and government agencies that provide such assistance?

No mention of using/attempting to get any of the housing assistance available that I noted outside of a program for the homeless that she clearly didn't qualify for, despite more than 250 low-income apartment complexes (most with available units) in Atlanta, including many with income based rent. No mention of trying to get HUD assistance or HCVs for help with rent.

A google search will find literally hundreds of sources to get assistance with low cost housing in Atlanta (from low cost housing options to groups that provide assistance to government agencies that provide housing or money for housing) and the only choice discussed was a homeless program while she has a roof over her head??

The situation is far from ideal, and more affordable housing would be great, but let's not pretend a lack of apartments advertising low rates on apartments.com is the only issue here with this story.

Have you ever tried to get any kind of help through the county system? Because I have. It sucks with a capital S.

I did it when my highly paid ex-didn't pay court ordered child support for over 10 months. The county office is open M-F 9-4, so you spend half a work day sitting in their office waiting for them to call your number only to be told you don't have some piece of required information (even though you are fully literate, like me, and brought everything it said you needed online). So, you leave and come back another day and do it all again. Meanwhile, maybe you aren't getting paid for this time you are taking off from work? Isn't the gig economy great? Then, once you get it all submitted, you are told they will get back to you. And months and months then go by without being contacted or even knowing if you have a court date or if they lost your paperwork entirely. And if baby daddy is in prison, or working for cash under the table, or disappeared, or unemployed, or self employed? Well, then maybe they can't get money out of him. There are dozens of reasons that women don't receive proper child support.

The closest you have come to what you are suggesting she should do was when you stood in line at the DMV for 20 minutes. Imagine that times 1000. And then you will possibly begin understand why the working poor don't end up getting help. But most people still won't get it, I'm afraid. You have to experience some taste of it to even begin to understand.

Good to hear that you know what my life has been apparently. Except you don't. Believe it or not, there are people in this world that went from making less than minimum wage to having successful careers/lives and some of us are here. Some of us even know, are friends with, or have been through situations ourselves where asking various organizations and/or government entities for help was necessary.

You're absolutely right though that it's perfectly plausible that through no fault of her own she isn't receiving child support. Child support being one of the numerous unaddressed issues in the article that I specifically mentioned (though I didn't even come close to a comprehensive list of questions left unanswered by the poorly written article) does make your input appropriate, but even if she isn't getting child support there are still a TON of unanswered questions regarding this story. Way too many to determine any sort of specific action is appropriate in my opinion.

[Much Fishing to Do]

I don't know, seems like everyone (rich, poor, middle) just complains about everything all the time, and the press confirms their feelings even with completely contradicting articles.  In 2009 no one wrote articles about the great news that single family homes in many markets had just almost instantly become much much more affordable to the middle class (there was no report of the "Great affordable housing boom of 2009"), they instead wrote articles about the collapse of the housing market and how the middle class has lost it all and are all getting evicted now because they are upside down due to prices falling "too low".  In 2006, and now in 2019, during booming (maybe bubbling) times, instead of saying middle class wealth is booming, they will instead report the middle class can't afford homes anymore because prices are "too high".

Everyone will just keep complaining about everything...the rich say they pay just about all the taxes but simultaneously say there's not enough rich people to pay for something when proposed, the poor will keep complaining that the rich doesnt pay their fair share in a year when they pay zero taxes.  everyone will just keep complaining instead of seeing the other side. 

I on the other hand will never complain.... except for this post that is ..... eh, nevermind, I guess its just what we all naturally do....

[Zamboni]

I don't know, seems like everyone (rich, poor, middle) just complains about everything all the time, and the press confirms their feelings even with completely contradicting articles.  In 2009 no one wrote articles about the great news that single family homes in many markets had just almost instantly become much much more affordable to the middle class (there was no report of the "Great affordable housing boom of 2009"), they instead wrote articles about the collapse of the housing market and how the middle class has lost it all and are all getting evicted now because they are upside down due to prices falling "too low".  In 2006, and now in 2019, during booming (maybe bubbling) times, instead of saying middle class wealth is booming, they will instead report the middle class can't afford homes anymore because prices are "too high".

Everyone will just keep complaining about everything...the rich say they pay just about all the taxes but simultaneously say there's not enough rich people to pay for something when proposed, the poor will keep complaining that the rich doesnt pay their fair share in a year when they pay zero taxes.  everyone will just keep complaining instead of seeing the other side. 

I on the other hand will never complain.... except for this post that is ..... eh, nevermind, I guess its just what we all naturally do....

The reason there weren't articles of that type in 2009 is that there were barely any buyers on the market in 2009 in many areas. Believe me, I was a home buyer in 2010, and it was GREAT for me because I wasn't also trying to unload a home, but I was a unicorn in my local real estate market. My agent said his decent sized office hadn't had an "actual qualified buyer" come through in something like a year. There were initially some investors snapping up properties that they turned into rentals, but by 2010 those folks had tapped out their cash and leverage and everything here was completely stagnant.

Also, saying the poor pay zero taxes is absurd. The poor pay all kinds of taxes: sales tax, taxes on their vehicles, toll roads, etc. Where I live there is sales tax on both food and clothing, for example.

It's entertaining when someone makes a lot of judgements about someone's situation, and then rankles when they feel a judgement has been made about them. I don't think the point of the article was for you, the reader, to come up with a solution for this specific family.

Rather, the article existed to illustrate what happens to long time, working-class residents when an area is gentrified without any consideration for affordable housing. Basically people get booted out of the area, and sometimes it happens really fast. Sometimes it happens so fast that people don't know where to turn, and they don't know their tenant rights or how to get the resources they need fast enough. Where I live they just changed a law because many people had been renting in month-to-month situations for years, and they were all getting tossed with 30-days notice when a big corporation from another state came in and basically bought most of an entire neighborhood and decided to "renovate to luxury apartments" (which meant paint and put in laundry facilities) and raise rents by $300 a unit. Blocks and blocks of people getting booted at once. Many of those displaced were retirees who were poor but had enough education and FREE TIME on their hands to band together, find legal resources, go to the housing authority, and fight back . . . so the laws got changed. I am inspired by the tenacity of those who dug in and figured out what they could do.

But the lady featured in this article really had NO free time on her hands. NONE. Sure, they chose an especially vulnerable family to illustrate their point, but they could have just as easily chosen an elderly retired couple on low a fixed income or any number of a bunch of other people in that same area, I'm guessing. Focusing in on the specifics of the illustrative case of this article kind of misses the point.

Also, I think it's great that so many of the people on this board have the capacity to find the situation they need to get ahead. That's really great! But please don't underestimate the challenges facing others that are in some ways fundamentally different than the challenges you have faced. That's not discounting your past hardship . . . plenty of people here have seen some and chronicled it in detail.

[WhiteTrashCash]

I don't know, seems like everyone (rich, poor, middle) just complains about everything all the time, and the press confirms their feelings even with completely contradicting articles.  In 2009 no one wrote articles about the great news that single family homes in many markets had just almost instantly become much much more affordable to the middle class (there was no report of the "Great affordable housing boom of 2009"), they instead wrote articles about the collapse of the housing market and how the middle class has lost it all and are all getting evicted now because they are upside down due to prices falling "too low".  In 2006, and now in 2019, during booming (maybe bubbling) times, instead of saying middle class wealth is booming, they will instead report the middle class can't afford homes anymore because prices are "too high".

Everyone will just keep complaining about everything...the rich say they pay just about all the taxes but simultaneously say there's not enough rich people to pay for something when proposed, the poor will keep complaining that the rich doesnt pay their fair share in a year when they pay zero taxes.  everyone will just keep complaining instead of seeing the other side. 

I on the other hand will never complain.... except for this post that is ..... eh, nevermind, I guess its just what we all naturally do....

The Great Recession was the biggest reason why I was able to afford this terrific house I'm sitting in right now. The housing market crashed and I was able to buy it at a huge discount with a mortgage of 3.25%. Thanks, Great Recession! And thank you, federal government, for the student loans that allowed me to get the education that recession-proofed my career. During the Great Recession, people with college degrees had only a 5.3% unemployment rate at the very worst of the crisis.

[bacchi]

Is the reason that only 1 in 4 households who qualify for assistance getting it because they're being wrongfully denied? because they didn't even ask for it? because the funding isn't there?

That was in the article. In the same paragraph, actually.

and the voucher program, though shown in numerous studies to be a crucial lifeline, is drastically underfunded. Today, only one in four households poor enough to qualify for rental assistance actually receives it.

I'm sure some people feel they don't need to understand more than 5% of the relevant information to determine a course of action,

That's ironic, considering you assume that she can go out and get a higher paying job with little effort and that she has to just simply apply to any number of vacant low-income apartments and she's set.

You've solved poverty for her and probably countless others in Atlanta. You're the hero we've been waiting for.

Contact The New Republic editors and help that woman out. Seriously.

[Bloop Bloop]

No one has said she can get a higher paying job "with little effort".

[bacchi]

No one has said she can get a higher paying job "with little effort".

No? There are apparently "active ads online trying to offer people $15/hour to do the job she's already doing." All she has to do is "take one of the jobs that pays better, is available in her area, and is hiring right now for significantly (to her) more money."

What could be easier?

[Bloop Bloop]

I don't think the poster was suggesting that it would take a trivial amount of effort, but rather that it was reasonably within her capability. To characterise it otherwise would be like me saying that your position is that no one can ever improve his or her circumstances.

[former player]

I don't think the poster was suggesting that it would take a trivial amount of effort, but rather that it was reasonably within her capability. To characterise it otherwise would be like me saying that your position is that no one can ever improve his or her circumstances.

Theoretically within her capabilities perhaps.  In practice, I see a woman at the end of her ability to cope with no personal or financial resources to spend on anything else.  Feel lucky if you've never been there yourself.

[KBecks]

No one has said she can get a higher paying job "with little effort".

No? There are apparently "active ads online trying to offer people $15/hour to do the job she's already doing." All she has to do is "take one of the jobs that pays better, is available in her area, and is hiring right now for significantly (to her) more money."

What could be easier?

She has to organize an interview, apply to the position, describe her qualifications, fill out forms, provide references and likely a background check, perhaps a credit check, etc. etc. etc.  while doing her other job and taking care of the kids.

Now, I agree that there are better jobs out there, but I know that going after a new job, even a low-skill job, takes extra time and effort.  Plus if she is a low-skilled employee and not a great communicator, it can be very difficult to present yourself for a new job.

Anyone can get a new job, but I think we all should agree that it takes extra effort, and energy and getting a new job while under housing stress is not the same as getting a new job when you are financially stable.

[TheContinentalOp]

2. Restricting the labor supply. She's competing against a lot of low-skilled immigrants. Cut off the flow and her wages would rise.

This is a home health aid who is presumably providing services to relative immobile elderly, and probably being directly or indirectly paid from some government coffers. Higher wages will come at the expense of reduced services, or increased fees to the person receiving the home health care, or from general government funds. That sounds like asking for a direct or indirect tax increase, with reduced efficiency 

Like others have said about other things: "there's no such thing as a free lunch", and "for every complex problem, there's a simple solution, the wrong one"

Maybe she's being paid by the gov't, maybe it's the private sector. And if it is the private sector then they should and will pay more if the supply of labor is restricted. As you said, There is no free lunch.

And if she is being paid by the gov't. directly or indirectly, and the gov't needs to raise her wage to keep her from moving to another job, then her increased income will result in her needing less gov't benefits.

[ecchastang]

No one has said she can get a higher paying job "with little effort".

No? There are apparently "active ads online trying to offer people $15/hour to do the job she's already doing." All she has to do is "take one of the jobs that pays better, is available in her area, and is hiring right now for significantly (to her) more money."

What could be easier?

Remember, the story is trying to prove a point.  If they offered that solution, then it would diminish the point of an affordable housing crisis. 

[Zamboni]

Let's all realize that there are also active online ads that say things like "Make $60,000 an hour working from home" and take a step back to see that just seeing an ad online doesn't necessarily mean a particular person will be able to get that job (or that the job advertised even really exists and actually pays what it says in the advertisement!)

It's amazing. If someone is unemployed, then the response is "GET A JOB!" If someone is employed and has always been employed, then the response is morphed into "JUST GET A BETTER JOB!" No empathy at all.

[mm1970]

Mostly this problem is related to people not wanting to do what is necessary to be successful. I lived in a rented room from Craigslist for two years (with a shared bathroom) so I could save up money for an apartment in a nice area. Which I then upgraded to purchasing a nice suburban house. Instead, everybody is crying and frozen in place like a deer in headlights and demanding that somebody come save them.

You assume she has the capacity and the capability to be successful.

I'm upper middle class, almost 50, with a husband and only 2 kids, and *I* don't have the fucking energy to look for a better job.  Interviewing is stressful and EXHAUSTING and I just don't have the energy or the time anymore. 

[carolina822]

If she fled an abusive domestic situation, shouldn't she at least get child support? I read that 61% of child support is partial or none, but is she getting anything? If not time to go to court. I do feel bad for her.

Yes, because abusers are well known to step up and do the right thing after their victims manage to leave.

[KBecks]

It's also possible that the father is a drug addict, in jail or dead.  Child support is not always happening.  Also, unemployed or disabled.

[partgypsy]

I know that. But I found it strange they did not even address that with a single statement, what could potentially be a large amount of money. "Although she is divorced and has full custody of x kids, she does not receive child support from the father due to x".

The look in her eyes, it looks like despair and burnout. I do hope she is self-protective enough to get through this.

[SunnyDays]

A Google search shows that a GoFundMe page had been set up almost a year ago, with over 4000.00 in donations.  There is now a new fund through Soledad O'Brien (CNN?) as of 7 hours ago.   Apparently this lady and her family are now in a small house, but costs are outstripping income and she needs a new vehicle.  Donations anyone?

[jlcnuke]

Let's all realize that there are also active online ads that say things like "Make $60,000 an hour working from home" and take a step back to see that just seeing an ad online doesn't necessarily mean a particular person will be able to get that job (or that the job advertised even really exists and actually pays what it says in the advertisement!)

It's amazing. If someone is unemployed, then the response is "GET A JOB!" If someone is employed and has always been employed, then the response is morphed into "JUST GET A BETTER JOB!" No empathy at all.

As someone who pays people to do her job (we've currently got two different ones working with my mom) I know for a fact that the job positions are open and hiring in this area (and since I also happen to live in the Atlanta area I can assure you that they do exist where she lives).

I never said it was "simply", "easy", or "would take no effort on her part". Of course, I've never said that anything worthwhile in life was any of those things.

[jlcnuke]

Is the reason that only 1 in 4 households who qualify for assistance getting it because they're being wrongfully denied? because they didn't even ask for it? because the funding isn't there?

That was in the article. In the same paragraph, actually.

and the voucher program, though shown in numerous studies to be a crucial lifeline, is drastically underfunded. Today, only one in four households poor enough to qualify for rental assistance actually receives it.

I'm sure some people feel they don't need to understand more than 5% of the relevant information to determine a course of action,

That's ironic, considering you assume that she can go out and get a higher paying job with little effort and that she has to just simply apply to any number of vacant low-income apartments and she's set.

You've solved poverty for her and probably countless others in Atlanta. You're the hero we've been waiting for.

Contact The New Republic editors and help that woman out. Seriously.

I read it and didn't see anywhere that stated she wasn't getting assistance because the money wasn't there, but apparently your psychic powers to interpret the words to mean something are greater than mine. With that amazing power I'm sure you can figure out the answer to the other 100 questions about her situation and all the other things to help her and her family out that weren't mentioned. With such abilities, we're all but guaranteed to have a comprehensive solution to every problem in the world from you in what, 2 hours? It's amazing how vastly my arrogance is exceeded by your own... simply amazing.

MOD NOTE: Please keep in mind forum rule #1.

[Nate79]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[Bloop Bloop]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The fact that some people, in fact some of us commenters, are living in financial comfort does not add or detract to the opinions being expressed here. There is no need to "put up or shut up" because this is not a personal discussion, nor is it about our personal nest eggs.

[former player]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say.

Low income housing is rarely a commercial proposition (no meeting the 1% rule, for instance, particularly in HCOL areas where the biggest problems are).  That makes it a charitable or governmental proposition.  Not many of us, even those doing well by the standards of these forums, will be able to personally invest the amount of money needed to make much of a difference - although there are people here doing just that on a relatively small scale.

For most of us it means taking a more roundabout route to finding solutions.  Volunteer to do building and repair work for housing charities.  Volunteer to be a housing advocate representing poor clients in legal proceedings.  Join the board of a local housing association.  Become an elected politician and put your efforts into changing (and applying) planning rules to restrict the building of expensive oversized mansions and encourage smaller lower cost homes (I've been working on this last one during FIRE: it's an uphill struggle in an area of very expensive housing but a worthwhile one).

[ecchastang]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The Freedom Dividend could give this woman the financial lift she needs.

[TheContinentalOp]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The Freedom Dividend could give this woman the financial lift she needs.

Doesn't Yang's Fredoom Dividend require the recipient to forgo the current welfare/social spending he or she is now receiving? Without knowing what benefits: SNAP, LIHEAP, SSI, etc., her family is receiving  it's not even clear if the Freedom Dividend will improve her situation at all.

[ecchastang]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

The Freedom Dividend could give this woman the financial lift she needs.

Doesn't Yang's Fredoom Dividend require the recipient to forgo the current welfare/social spending he or she is now receiving? Without knowing what benefits: SNAP, LIHEAP, SSI, etc., her family is receiving  it's not even clear if the Freedom Dividend will improve her situation at all.

We have to revert back to what is stated in the article.  Not sure about all of that.

[mm1970]

How many people posting in this thread are going to put their money where their mouth is and go out and build nor buy homes/apartments and charge below market rent to support low income families?

Time to put up or shut up as they say. Though I did see that Biden is living in a $6m rental home in DC, one of his many homes. Imagine how many low income housing that wealth could have built.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I mean, I would if I could.  There are plenty of people in my town that actually do this - but understand that the reason that they CAN is because they are 80-90 years old, bought the house for 20,000 in the 1960s, and it's paid off.

If I were financially able to buy another home and rent out the one I have, I would totally consider it.  But, owning is more costly than renting in this town. And EVEN THOUGH I've owned my home for 15 years - the monthly cost for my home is exactly the "going rate" as it were, for a 2BR, 1BA house - $3500.  (Mortgage + prop tax + interest).

As an aside, I believe in the aspect of community to pool resources.  I was absolutely thrilled recently to find out that our local public housing department was able to find a rental home for a Section 8 client.  This is what we are talking about here (many of us, anyway).  Our Section 8 lists are 7 years long, but this home was found for grandparents who are unexpectedly now raising 3 grandchildren.   This is what I want my tax dollars to do.