Author Topic: Insurance/Medical Issues  (Read 2106 times)

Brickeye

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Insurance/Medical Issues
« on: November 25, 2018, 11:18:02 PM »
I have a question.  I'm 51 years old and worth $3.6M.  I receive off my investments $66,000 per year.  I am incredibly frugal and want nothing more than financial independence, however, I have one major issue that I believe prevents that- the potential for a medical catastrophe and or insurance costs.  I believe most people do not account for this when living a frugal lifestyle and it is a huge risk to leave yourself open to. 

I am curious do most of you factor insurance and or potential medical costs when calculating for retirement?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 11:39:53 PM by Brickeye »

MoustacheDArgent

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 01:47:33 AM »
It definitely a concern for me.  I bought insurance on the government exchange.  It's not really insurance though with an 8k deductible and then they cover 60%.

If I have something expensive and not an immediate emergency my plan is to look into medical tourism to see if it's cheaper.
I have an uncle that lives on the Mexican border in South Texas and goes to doctors and pharmacies in Mexico and says he saves a lot of money that way.

The scary thing is what if it's an emergency say I get into a car crash and end up in the hospital with a $180k medical bill?
I'll be stuck with a bill over 76k.   I keep thinking I need to move to a country with a sensible universal health care plan.
Maybe Ecuador or Portugal.  hell I don't know, it's a scary thought.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:49:21 AM by MoustacheDArgent »

Brickeye

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 02:54:56 AM »
Thanks for your reply!  Yeah, I would say it is my #1 concern.  Full disclosure- I live in Hong Kong where we actually have public healthcare ( and a with a 15% flat tax rate).  I have really good coverage with the company I work for but if I ever wanted to pull the plug obviously that would go away.  Living in a country with good healthcare will take care of emergency type stuff- accidents, short term ailments you can put off like surgeries etc. but for long term things it is not really a solution as you will suffer from long wait times.  The only place where I think they have great overall public coverage are European countries, particularly the UK.  Of course everything else is super expensive and not conducive to retirement.

FYI the medical tourist hot spot here in Asia is Thailand.  Supposedly the hospitals in Bangkok are really good and cost nothing.  People even go there for full body physicals which is cheaper than getting it done here in Hong Kong.


It definitely a concern for me.  I bought insurance on the government exchange.  It's not really insurance though with an 8k deductible and then they cover 60%.

If I have something expensive and not an immediate emergency my plan is to look into medical tourism to see if it's cheaper.
I have an uncle that lives on the Mexican border in South Texas and goes to doctors and pharmacies in Mexico and says he saves a lot of money that way.

The scary thing is what if it's an emergency say I get into a car crash and end up in the hospital with a $180k medical bill?
I'll be stuck with a bill over 76k.   I keep thinking I need to move to a country with a sensible universal health care plan.
Maybe Ecuador or Portugal.  hell I don't know, it's a scary thought.

Loren Ver

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 06:02:40 AM »
DH and I will be retiring in 2019 so we have been looking into this.  All the ACA plans we are looking at have yearly out of pocket maximums that we can cover.  We make sure we have the family maximum in a emergency fund.  We see medical insurance not as medical cost coverage but as bankruptcy protections from medical expenses first.  Anything else is just gravy.  If the insurance doesn't do that, it isn't insurance. 


I'm a red panda

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2018, 06:29:30 AM »
Absolutely I plan for insurance and medical care.  For many people, insurance may be the #1 expense.  (Right now, for me, taxes are- with insurance a close 2nd.)

happyfeet

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2018, 07:16:05 AM »
I am 60 with considerable less net worth than you - 1.2M - I worry about health care all the time. 

I am divorced and was a SAHM - health care is my #1 cost.   Currently on COBRA - that ends next year.  The coverage is great though.

My prospects for a job that offers HC are slim.  I currently do retail - too hard on the hips and feet - all the standing for 8 hours. And I am in shape and not over weight.  No HC there.

IDK.  It totally sucks.  I will use ACA to bridge me from 61 to 65 and use an HSA plan if I can find one.

You are 10 years younger than me.  HC is such an unknown. 

Peachtea

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2018, 08:03:08 AM »
It definitely a concern for me.  I bought insurance on the government exchange.  It's not really insurance though with an 8k deductible and then they cover 60%.

If I have something expensive and not an immediate emergency my plan is to look into medical tourism to see if it's cheaper.
I have an uncle that lives on the Mexican border in South Texas and goes to doctors and pharmacies in Mexico and says he saves a lot of money that way.

The scary thing is what if it's an emergency say I get into a car crash and end up in the hospital with a $180k medical bill?
I'll be stuck with a bill over 76k.   I keep thinking I need to move to a country with a sensible universal health care plan.
Maybe Ecuador or Portugal.  hell I don't know, it's a scary thought.

You should double check your insurance plan info, b/c this doesn’t seem right. If you got a plan from the government exchange then it should be ACA compliant. I’ve never heard of the government exchange allowing non-ACA compliant plans. But maybe some states running their own allow non-compliant plans???

If your plan is ACA compliant, then the 2019 max out of pocket expenses is $7,900 for individual and $15,800 family (and lower if you have an HSA plan). Out of pocket max includes the deductible, copays, and coinsurance. So your deductible should be lower than $8,000 and instead it’s you pay deductible + 40% coinsurance up to $7,900 out of pocket. After that the insurance company covers the rest. So if you had $180k from a car cash, your share would be $7,900 not $76k. Unless you’re out of network where the hospital then tries balance billing you. But even then you can negotiate, public shame via the media, etc. if they try charging you a huge amount after your insurance company paid out to them. It would be very stressful, but seems like really low odds to be overly worried about it.

MoustacheDArgent

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2018, 10:59:05 PM »
Peachtea,

you are right the deductible is $7,900 not $8,000. 

You wrote - "instead it’s you pay deductible + 40% coinsurance up to $7,900 out of pocket" - so that's good to know.  I guess I misunderstood the 40%.  I admit I don't understand
the insurance very well so that's great.  thanks for explaining.

Peachtea

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 06:07:54 PM »
Your deductible should be less than $7900 and the $7900 should instead be your out of pocket maximum. The deductible if what you have to pay before the insurance pays anything, the coinsurance is what you pay after you hit your deductible, and then after you hit the $7900 out of pocket maximum (deductible plus so insurance payments = $7900) your insurance picks up the rest.

I looked at my states’ exchange options. Only two plans had a deductible and out of pocket maximum that were the same amount. Neither of those plans had coinsurances after the deductible was met. That makes sense because if your deductible is the same as the out of pocket max, then there’s no situation where you would be paying coinsurance anyways. So since you have a 40% coinsurance, your deductible should be less than your $7900 out of pocket maximum.

rantk81

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 06:24:25 AM »
What I've found when browsing ACA Exchange plans, there are a lot of plans with very high deductibles and very high out of pocket maxes (and some cases where both deductible and out-of-pocket max are the same value, sometimes the legally highest number possible.

But the comical part about these plans is, in the majority of those "high deductible" plans I mention above, the plans offer some very minor/borderline-useless benefit that is covered before the deductible, which makes these plans HDHP/HSA in-eligible.  (Example:  Offering generic drugs with a $75 co-pay before meeting your deductible.)  It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

mountain mustache

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2018, 07:01:04 AM »
I have been using ACA healthcare the past 3 years. The strategy is to find the plan with a premium you want to pay, with the lowest out of pocket max possible. Usually they are between $6800-$7800.00. How I feel is that deductible doesn't really matter, unless you have continuous prescriptions you use, or go to the DRs a lot. If you have healthcare to just cover something going majorly wrong, then just know that you will be spending $6800-$7800 for the year, and then the rest will be covered. There are so many tiny details and coinsurances and all of that in the ACA plans that gets confusing...but if you just focus on out of pocket max, and then have an account with that amount of money sitting in it to be prepared for an injury etc...it makes it a lot less stressful.

rantk81

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Re: Insurance/Medical Issues
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2018, 07:07:07 AM »
I have been using ACA healthcare the past 3 years. The strategy is to find the plan with a premium you want to pay, with the lowest out of pocket max possible. Usually they are between $6800-$7800.00. How I feel is that deductible doesn't really matter, unless you have continuous prescriptions you use, or go to the DRs a lot. If you have healthcare to just cover something going majorly wrong, then just know that you will be spending $6800-$7800 for the year, and then the rest will be covered. There are so many tiny details and coinsurances and all of that in the ACA plans that gets confusing...but if you just focus on out of pocket max, and then have an account with that amount of money sitting in it to be prepared for an injury etc...it makes it a lot less stressful.

100% spot on.

I will add, that now that many states allow for "short term" plans -- sometimes up to 360 days --  (which exclude pre-existings, and don't have "minimum essential coverage"), you can buy a catastrophic/high-deductible plan, for much much cheaper than an ACA Exchange plan, and an excellent network of doctors.  I was looking at the ones offered by UnitedHealth....

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!