Author Topic: Inheritance and 403(b)  (Read 2083 times)

Pigeon

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Inheritance and 403(b)
« on: April 04, 2017, 05:16:01 PM »
We are going to receive a low six digit inheritance.  Dh and I are about 5 years away from retirement.   He has access to a 403(b) that he contributes to, but is not maxed out.  I have a maxed out 457(b), but could also open up a 403(b).  We are old enough that catch-up provisions apply.

I am thinking that we should boost his 403 deferral to the max, open a 403(b) for me and max it out for the next 5 years, and use an equivalent amount cash from the inheritance for living expenses for the next few years.  The only potential downside I could see would be the mingling of an inheritance should dh decide to divorce me after 35+ years, but that's highly unlikely and would be his problem. :)

Am I missing some obvious reason why this can't be done?


Frankies Girl

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2017, 05:56:33 PM »
You'll need to confirm that a 403b is treated similarly to IRAs/401Ks when inherited. I can only speak from my experience/research when inheriting an IRA from my father... so the following is based on that, YMMV. Consult the plan's representative ASAP to make sure you follow all the steps needed properly.

Make sure if any distributions were needed to be taken by your parent, that they do so ASAP. Then make sure your second step is to set up the new account properly as an inherited account

In the case of an inherited IRA/401K, you have two options:

1. Take out all within a 5 year period. This is a poor option, as distributions are generally considered taxable income, so if the account has a large amount, you will find yourself pushed into a much higher tax bracket potentially. Try to avoid this if possible.

2. Set it up as a inherited (stretch) IRA. This means you can take required minimum distributions (RMDs or MRDs) for the rest of your life. By setting up the account as a beneficiary/inherited IRA/401K, you are the allowed to have the company set up the distribution on a yearly basis and they assess your age and the amount in the account each year and then you take X amount of money out to satisfy the RMD, but allowing the rest of the account to continue to stay invested. Some smaller (less savvy) companies force you to figure the RMDs out yourself, but you can roll the account to someplace like Vanguard or Fido and they'll do automatic calculations for your RMD, withholding taxes and transferring the remainder according to what you tell them. This is usually the best option, since your RMD is figured based off your age and you minimize the tax hit, and the account is tax deferred while at the same time it is still growing and you can invest the funds in anything you'd like. And in the case of 401k/IRAs (and likely 403b), you can take RMDs or more out with zero penalties - just pay taxes if they are owed.

If you fail to make this account (IRA/401K anyway) reclassified as an inherited version and take the distribution if needed for the parent before the deadline, you may automatically be forced to do the 5 year distribution, which could be potentially horrible for your taxes over that time period, so do get this dialed in with the representative as soon as you can.



The big issue I'd see with your plan is that you and your husband will still be working and have income from those jobs, and taking additional money out of the inherited 403b to fund your expenses means you'll be having to count all that in addition to your regular income on your taxes... meaning you may potentially have a HUGE tax bill (possibly with penalties assessed if you owe more than 1K, since the IRS thinks you should have been pre-paying if you go over that amount owed). And also keep in mind that if you have a taxable account and are currently enjoying paying zero on the cap gains/dividends because you're under the 15% taxable bracket, you'll also owe on those as well if popped over the 15% bracket due to the increased taxable income counted.

Again, consult the plan's representative to confirm how this should be handled as soon as possible. You should (again, based off my IRA stuff) have til the end of the year to get this set up and the distributions figured and the account reclassified, but the sooner you get this stuff figured out the less it will be hanging over your head and the more time you have to figure out how to make this money work best for your plans.

Finally, I am so very sorry for your loss. It may have been sudden or expected, but losing a family member is never easy.

Pigeon

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2017, 06:20:21 PM »
Thanks for responding.  We aren't inheriting a 403(b).  Sorry, I wasn't clear.  It will be mostly cash we are inheriting.  I was wondering about the idea of me opening the 403(b) and maxing out my husband's 403(b) to defer as much income as is possible, and using some of the inherited cash to pay some living expenses for a couple of years.  I work for a state government entity and am allowed to have both the 457 and 403.

This seems like a logical thing to do to me, but dh thought it sounded odd.  It would mean we are deferring a very large amount of our income (my 457(b), and a 403(b) for each of us, all three with the over 50 catch up provision of $24K/account).

A small portion of the inheritance is in the form of an inherited IRA, for which we will have to take required annual distributions, but I have that figured out, I think.  It was originally FIL's and he had paid taxes on most of it.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 06:24:16 PM by Pigeon »

aceyou

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2017, 07:07:28 PM »
I don't think it's odd, I think it's potentially very smart.  My wife are doing something similar, but under very different circumstances.  Here's our deal:

In our 20's we were naturally semi-frugal, but knew nothing about investing or FIRE concepts, so a little over 100k in cash just accumulated into our checking/savings. 

Fast forward to 3 years ago, I found this site and realized there's WAY better ways to be doing this.  But the problem is there was nothing I could do with that 100k+ to get it into a tax advantaged account, since that ship had already sailed. 

So, we've been living off that 100k for the past few years, and each opened up 403B's/457's, and Roth IRA's.  This lets us shelter 83k annually between the two of us.  Every year, our savings has been dropping by about 20-25k(we currently have 70k left), and our earned income almost exclusively goes towards investments.  We will continue this till our savings/checking goes down to 15k or so, then we'll dial it back and invest an amount that allows us live off our paychecks, and invest the leftovers. 

In our situation, this is the most optimal route we can take. 

It sounds like you are experiencing the same situation.  You currently have more money than you need between the inheritance and your earned income.  So the logical thing would be to invest some of it and live of some of it.  Since your earned income is easy to invest in a tax efficient way (in essence...403/401/457/Roth), and your inheritance can't be, it makes sense to invest all of your earned income that you possibly can, and use the inheritance for your spending. 

The more frugal you can be, the longer you can make your inheritance stretch, the longer you can funnel both of your paychecks into building your stache at warp speed.  This is great gift/opportunity that you have.  My advice is to take advantage of this opportunity and shelter as much earned income as you can for as long as you can.  Show this to your spouse and let your DH poke holes into the idea, but I think you are thinking about this right.  Good luck!!!

Frankies Girl

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2017, 07:08:21 PM »
Thanks for responding.  We aren't inheriting a 403(b).  Sorry, I wasn't clear.  It will be mostly cash we are inheriting.  I was wondering about the idea of me opening the 403(b) and maxing out my husband's 403(b) to defer as much income as is possible, and using some of the inherited cash to pay some living expenses for a couple of years.  I work for a state government entity and am allowed to have both the 457 and 403.

This seems like a logical thing to do to me, but dh thought it sounded odd.  It would mean we are deferring a very large amount of our income (my 457(b), and a 403(b) for each of us, all three with the over 50 catch up provision of $24K/account).

A small portion of the inheritance is in the form of an inherited IRA, for which we will have to take required annual distributions, but I have that figured out, I think.  It was originally FIL's and he had paid taxes on most of it.


Ohhhhh. That's a horse of a different color altogether. So sorry for the misunderstanding.

Straight cash in 6 figures - totally doable with what you're planning I would think. I'm sure it does sound odd to your DH, but then again, so does retiring super early, or even maxing your retirement accounts... it's unusual, but not wrong. :)

Living off straight cash, you'll likely want it in a high yield savings (~1%) but otherwise, it's going to reduce your taxable income since you'll be funneling more into tax deferred accounts, and so far, having large amount of cash in a savings account won't count against you for tax purposes either.

Last 2 years before I FIREd, I maxed my 401k and our traditional IRAs and still paid out the medical insurance from my paycheck and had additional taxes withheld. It was funny how small my paychecks were, but we were technically living off of the husband's paycheck, so it didn't matter.


Hopefully some of the smarter posters on here will chime in with any reservations or points to ponder.



Pigeon

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2017, 07:31:46 PM »
I think it is the paycheck thing that has him scratching his head. We contribute to 529s and some other education accounts now so that there will be comic amounts in our pay left a0fter my plan.

aceyou

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Re: Inheritance and 403(b)
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2017, 07:43:01 PM »
I think it is the paycheck thing that has him scratching his head. We contribute to 529s and some other education accounts now so that there will be comic amounts in our pay left after my plan.

Yep, get used to it for a while.  Every month the following goes out of our paychecks:

Me:
403...$1500
457...$1500
pension...7% of pay
Wife
403...$1500
457...$1500
pension...10% of pay

He'll come to love it real quick when he sees your Vanguard accounts filling up each month to the tune of 6k per month, or some ridiculous number like that.  It's like a vegas slot machine is dinging and rolling VTSAX credits at you 24/7...making it rain index funds...lets gooooo!!!