Author Topic: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation  (Read 8785 times)

iris lily

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Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« on: February 20, 2014, 07:14:19 PM »
I know that MM readers are more interested in net worth than income, as am I, but I found this chart (pretty old now--data is from the year 2000) to be very interesting from this website: https://www.boundless.com/image/religious-affiliation-by-median-household-income-2000/:





I was surprised that:

*Evangelicals rated fairly high up in the income chart

* Unitarians were that high--although after thinking about it, there are a lot of Jews in Unitarian congregations. And, Unitarian congregations are not in small town and rural places where jobs are lower paying. I was raised 4th generation Unitarian and my mother converted of Judaism so by definition of the Jews I am Jewish. But I don't identify with either one.

*Quakers were not listed

I had originally gone searching for income or wealth or social class marker of those in the B'hai faith but found this chart instead.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 07:22:00 PM by iris lily »

foobar

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2014, 09:21:41 AM »
It is probably more of a measurement of marriage rates and geographic locations. And how white and young your population is.

But it is pretty clear that god has chosen to reward his chosen people well:)
 

I know that MM readers are more interested in net worth than income, as am I, but I found this chart (pretty old now--data is from the year 2000) to be very interesting from this website: https://www.boundless.com/image/religious-affiliation-by-median-household-income-2000/:





I was surprised that:

*Evangelicals rated fairly high up in the income chart

* Unitarians were that high--although after thinking about it, there are a lot of Jews in Unitarian congregations. And, Unitarian congregations are not in small town and rural places where jobs are lower paying. I was raised 4th generation Unitarian and my mother converted of Judaism so by definition of the Jews I am Jewish. But I don't identify with either one.

*Quakers were not listed

I had originally gone searching for income or wealth or social class marker of those in the B'hai faith but found this chart instead.

oldtoyota

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2014, 09:33:07 AM »
I find this interesting. I read an article recently about how rabbis are paid more than pastors. Rabbis can earn six figures. Pastor salaries seem to be around $35-60K.

Likely, education and skin color has a lot to do with the disparity.

mollyjade

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2014, 10:14:21 AM »

Likely, education and skin color has a lot to do with the disparity.
Yes. Looking at the two extremes, Jews are likely to be white and tend to value education. Jehovah's witnesses discourage education (the world's about to end anyway and your time is better spent evangelizing) and are more likely to be people of color.

I also suspect that being a recent immigrant plays into some of these as well, since Muslim populations in the U.S. are likely to have arrived fairly recently.

oldtoyota

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2014, 10:42:20 AM »

Likely, education and skin color has a lot to do with the disparity.
Yes. Looking at the two extremes, Jews are likely to be white and tend to value education. Jehovah's witnesses discourage education (the world's about to end anyway and your time is better spent evangelizing) and are more likely to be people of color.

I also suspect that being a recent immigrant plays into some of these as well, since Muslim populations in the U.S. are likely to have arrived fairly recently.

To further support what we're saying, Episcopalians have been here a long time. They were some of the earliest to arrive in the US. As a side note, there have been more Episcopalian presidents than any another denomination (about 12, I think). For fun, I counted this up the other day using my kid's POTUS flash cards. One Roman Catholic, lots of Unitarians, and no Jews/Muslims/Mormons. IIRC, Methodist/Presbyterian was another large-ish group (relatively speaking).

It would be fascinating to see this chart data in comparison to when large groups of people from the listed religions came to the US. Since people have often come to the US because they were fleeing elsewhere, that data might exist.









« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 10:44:56 AM by oldtoyota »

greaper007

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2014, 10:47:40 AM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

Jamesqf

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2014, 11:07:02 AM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

It's the Church that's rich, not necessarily the individual Mormons, since you're supposed to give a good part of your income to the Church.  Applies to the Catholic Church, too...

Eric

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2014, 11:17:09 AM »
I think I'm most surprised by how many different denominations of Christianity made the list.  I'm wondering what the difference is between:
Church of God
Church of Christ
Assemblies of God
United Church of Christ
Non-denominational
Christian unspecified
Protestant unspecified

Iron Mike Sharpe

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2014, 11:32:58 AM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

It's the Church that's rich, not necessarily the individual Mormons, since you're supposed to give a good part of your income to the Church.  Applies to the Catholic Church, too...

But this chart is about INCOME.  Not net worth.  So tithing is irrelevant. 

greaper007

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2014, 11:40:12 AM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

It's the Church that's rich, not necessarily the individual Mormons, since you're supposed to give a good part of your income to the Church.  Applies to the Catholic Church, too...

There's a lot of rich Mormon businesses out there.   For instance Marriott and Skywest, and Mormons basically finance Las Vegas.   

I'm a recovering Catholic and it always puzzled me how the church flourishes as much as it does.   As traditionally, they don't require tithing like other religions do.   From what I understand the Catholic Church makes a lot of money off of real estate holdings and other investment vehicles.

Tyler

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2014, 11:44:05 AM »
Beware confusing correlation with causation. There are lots of potential explanations for the differences other than religious doctrine.

Elaine

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2014, 11:49:21 AM »
Witnesses (especially if you're female) are often not allowed to go to college, so that explains that.

CommonCents

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2014, 12:00:05 PM »
The Mormons I know* all only have one parent working.

*Not a representative sample.

kolorado

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 12:06:25 PM »
Very interesting.
 I grew up Baptist and we were poor, as was most of the congregation in the churches we attended. The nice thing about that was that there was a real sense of community and sharing. Clothes and household items were regularly passed around and pot-luck suppers happened almost every week.
 As a teenager, my parents switched to a non-denominational church. The congregants there(as well as my family at that point)were pretty solidly in lower-middle and middle class.
 I've been a practicing Quaker since my late teens. From articles I've read and my own impressions, Quakers seem to be more educated and middle to upper-middle class in terms of income.
 I think a lot of it comes down to the kinds of personalities that are attracted to certain careers also finding a home feeling in a faith group. Baptists seem to have a lot of factory workers and tradesmen. Non-denominational groups seem to have a lot of small business and shop owners, farmers, and musicians. Quakers have tons of teachers.
 I've met very few people in my Christian life that 100% agree with what their denomination teaches/practices. Generally, affiliation comes down to the overall style of the denomination and not the finer points. So income correlation is most likely about style preference, not beliefs.

foobar

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 12:11:34 PM »
Mormons skew a bit young. Last time I saw the numbers they were over represented in the middle brackets (40-100k) and under represented in the other ones. Here is another fun chart that 15sec google turned up: http://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/income-distribution-within-us-religious-groups/



Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

It's the Church that's rich, not necessarily the individual Mormons, since you're supposed to give a good part of your income to the Church.  Applies to the Catholic Church, too...

netskyblue

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2014, 12:26:19 PM »
I guess Eastern Orthodox Christians (Greek, Russian, Eastern European, etc) fall under Christian unspecified?  They're more like Catholics than Protestants in terms of doctrine/practices, but maybe not a large enough sample got surveyed?

crumbcatcher

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2014, 01:32:47 PM »
I guess Eastern Orthodox Christians (Greek, Russian, Eastern European, etc) fall under Christian unspecified?  They're more like Catholics than Protestants in terms of doctrine/practices, but maybe not a large enough sample got surveyed?

Yes, the fact that a bunch of Christian denominations are separated (but only for Protestant branches) and no non-Christian divisions are highlighted is interesting and a bit troubling.  It makes me wonder who designed the study and for what purpose.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 01:43:19 PM by crumbcatcher »

oldtoyota

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2014, 03:23:04 PM »
I think I'm most surprised by how many different denominations of Christianity made the list.  I'm wondering what the difference is between:
Church of God
Church of Christ
Assemblies of God
United Church of Christ
Non-denominational
Christian unspecified
Protestant unspecified

I wondered this too when I saw all of the denominations of US Presidents. I was unfamiliar with some of them.


Spork

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2014, 03:32:38 PM »
I guess Eastern Orthodox Christians (Greek, Russian, Eastern European, etc) fall under Christian unspecified?  They're more like Catholics than Protestants in terms of doctrine/practices, but maybe not a large enough sample got surveyed?

Yes, the fact that a bunch of Christian denominations are separated (but only for Protestant branches) and no non-Christian divisions are highlighted is interesting and a bit troubling.  It makes me wonder who designed the study and for what purpose.

I'm guessing... but I suspect they just gave a list of major players with a catch-all fill in the blank at the bottom. 

Where I come from the obvious winner in the Income category is Baptist.... but I don't think that says anything other than "most people here are Baptist."  I don't try to read much into it. 

marty998

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2014, 04:29:10 PM »
I think I'm most surprised by how many different denominations of Christianity made the list.  I'm wondering what the difference is between:
Church of God
Church of Christ
Assemblies of God
United Church of Christ
Non-denominational
Christian unspecified
Protestant unspecified

I wondered this too when I saw all of the denominations of US Presidents. I was unfamiliar with some of them.

The differences go to fundamental beliefs. All basically believe in the Christ story (ties all Christian faiths  together obviously). But then at various times in history there were disagreements over specific rituals, doctrines etc. Catholics recognise the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) as the leader of the Church. Most of the other denominations do not.

Most famous case is King Henry VIII not being permitted a divorce so he basically started his own Church (Church of England).

marty998

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2014, 04:45:22 PM »
I always thought the religious were poor. Quite simply most Catholics took the "no birth control" doctrine seriously. Families would end up with 10+ kids because of it and would consequently be rich in love but poor in wealth. It's still happening in places like the Philippines. Lots of early Australian immigration is made up of people coming from very, very large Irish Catholic families.

I never quite understood why birth control was a sin. Condoms were only invented quite recently in historical terms. It's not like Christ ever said "Thou shalt not cover thy phallus when thou get lucky" etc.

Bit like Celibacy in the priesthood. Rule was only brought in so that Church assets would stay with the church and not be inherited by the sons of Priests (note sons only, sadly daughters were property/assets). That's another reason why there are differences in Christian denominations. Some clergy simply wanted to get married and have kids.

Jamesqf

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2014, 10:12:28 PM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

It's the Church that's rich, not necessarily the individual Mormons, since you're supposed to give a good part of your income to the Church.  Applies to the Catholic Church, too...

But this chart is about INCOME.  Not net worth.  So tithing is irrelevant.

Yes, it is relevant, because tithing explains why the Mormon Church has so much money to spend on politics.

nicknageli

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2014, 12:16:04 PM »
Yes, it is relevant, because tithing explains why the Mormon Church has so much money to spend on politics.


GuitarStv

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 12:42:26 PM »
I never quite understood why birth control was a sin. Condoms were only invented quite recently in historical terms. It's not like Christ ever said "Thou shalt not cover thy phallus when thou get lucky" etc.

Old testament is the most commonly cited biblical reference.

Onan's bro died and God told him to marry/have sex with bro's wife.  As was apparently the way things happened in OT times.  Then Onan had sex with bro's wife but performed ye olde pull n' pray therefore angering God.  The punishment for not providing children to your dead bro's wife was public humiliation, but Onan was killed for his crime . . . this has been interpreted to mean that every sperm is sacred and birth control is a big no-no.

Gin1984

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 12:45:01 PM »
I always thought the religious were poor. Quite simply most Catholics took the "no birth control" doctrine seriously. Families would end up with 10+ kids because of it and would consequently be rich in love but poor in wealth. It's still happening in places like the Philippines. Lots of early Australian immigration is made up of people coming from very, very large Irish Catholic families.

I never quite understood why birth control was a sin. Condoms were only invented quite recently in historical terms. It's not like Christ ever said "Thou shalt not cover thy phallus when thou get lucky" etc.

Bit like Celibacy in the priesthood. Rule was only brought in so that Church assets would stay with the church and not be inherited by the sons of Priests (note sons only, sadly daughters were property/assets). That's another reason why there are differences in Christian denominations. Some clergy simply wanted to get married and have kids.
Not anymore, at least in the USA. 98% of Catholic women use birth control.

goatmom

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2014, 01:10:14 PM »
Well, not to lead conversation astray but that 98 percent figure came from the Guttmacher Institute, not a neutral source.  Only one third of the respondents who identified as catholic actually were practicing Catholics.  The study did not include women who were not sexually active, were pregnant, or attempting to get pregnant.  Many catholic women would fall into these categories.  I do agree that many more Catholics use birth control than the Church would like, but the 98 percent figure is inflated by Guttmacher. 

The OPs study was very interesting.  I wonder how much has to do with how higher education is viewed by the different denominations. 

Gin1984

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2014, 01:52:18 PM »
Well, not to lead conversation astray but that 98 percent figure came from the Guttmacher Institute, not a neutral source.  Only one third of the respondents who identified as catholic actually were practicing Catholics.  The study did not include women who were not sexually active, were pregnant, or attempting to get pregnant.  Many catholic women would fall into these categories.  I do agree that many more Catholics use birth control than the Church would like, but the 98 percent figure is inflated by Guttmacher. 

The OPs study was very interesting.  I wonder how much has to do with how higher education is viewed by the different denominations.
Where did you get that number?  From what I remember the person self identified her religion.  So fine, 98% of sexually active Catholic women use or have used birth control.   Still a pretty high amount.

goatmom

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2014, 02:24:30 PM »
If you look at original survey, only one third of the women who self identified as catholic were regular mass attendees. And the 98 percent did not include pregnant women or women who were trying to conceive or women who were postpartum.  The original survey also asked if they had ever used birth control.  So the women who answered yes were sexually active, not pregnant, not intending to get pregnant, and not post partum women who at some time in their life had used birth control.  A little different than the headlines that 98 percent of Catholic women use birth control.  But not quite as interesting. 

marty998

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2014, 03:01:50 PM »
Oh dear, lies, damn lies and statistics. I wasn't really talking about the 21st Century. I was talking several hundred years ago when the Church was the centre of society and through fear or threat was the most powerful and controlling influence in your life.

But I don't have an intelligent link or source to back that up.

Fair play to all of you smart enough to not take partisan surveys at face value. Always gotta look at what the agenda is behind these pieces of "research".

iris lily

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2014, 04:59:14 PM »
Interesting, with everything I read about rich Mormons influencing political legislation, I thought they'd be higher on the list.

oh yeah, that's another thing I was surprised by. I expected to see them right up there with Church of England captains of industry.

Jamesqf

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2014, 05:35:10 PM »
A little different than the headlines that 98 percent of Catholic women use birth control.  But not quite as interesting.

I dunno about that.  Say it's only 49% of female US Catholics who use birth control, that's still close to half who are willing to go against one of the fundamental teachings of their religion, which IMHO seems pretty interesting.

But that squares with something I've long noticed about my Christian friends: they seem to pick out the small subset of Biblical teachings that matches their basic nature, and ignore the rest.  So if they're basically decent people, they pick from the original Gospels, and ignore both the latter parts of the New Testament and most of the Old.  If they're nasty-minded sorts, they do just the opposite, and wind up in something like the Westboro Baptist Church.

goatmom

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Re: Income by U.S. Religious affiliation
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2014, 07:47:40 PM »
Well, probably most of us also violate the golden rule of loving your neighbor as yourself on a daily basis. So, not all that surprising.  I am not a theologian, but I also wouldn't consider the ban on artificial birth control a major teaching of the catholic church.