The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: stratozyck on March 15, 2017, 09:18:27 AM
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I fully realize everyone will laugh and call me stupid for this. But something happened this past month that made me understand why spending (a few) dollars a month on the lottery isn't "throwing your money away." Yes, I know you aren't going to win. Yes, spending anything more than a few dollars a month is stupid. But let me explain.
FYI, I have max 401k contrib (and do 1/3rd roth because why not I suppose...) and am putting away money for a car that I know at some point I will need. My current one is an old piece of crap that everything except the vital parts have or are failing. I plan on driving it until it dies. We have two houses (one that is rented out) and more or less my paycheck is set up so that aside from our mortgage, everything else is spending. The savings is taken out automatically.
So, I live in a cheaper area far away from a major metro. I have dealt with the commute by switching to an early in early out schedule and am often at my desk prior to 7 (6:30am is not uncommon if I am busy). I am overjoyed when my total commute time each day is under 2 and a half hours. My coworkers typically spend 4 hours a day commuting. Its a mess and houses in the city are so out of our price range that I initially thought it was a misprint when we went looking.
Still, the commute can unravel. I drive a few miles to a bus station that takes me to a train that then goes to the office. Some random days everything goes to crap and even though I leave early the commute can sometimes take 2 hours one way if there is an incident. That usually means my co workers will be in at 10:30.
My point is, my life is more or less on auto pilot. I am working my way up a lucrative career and even though I am at the bottom of it I am doing fine. It was one Wednesday weeks ago when everything went to crap - a traffic light broke near our house, there was an accident on the tiny stretch of highway that I do have to drive, and then there was yet another accident that slowed the bus. Then someone did the ungodly sin of blocking the escalator by putting their bags on the left side of it and I just missed the train.
When I got downtown I'm going up the escalator hating life temporarily. I saw the powerball and I had a few dollars and in a blur of trying to do something to relieve the stress building up (already at 7:30am) I bought a ticket.
What it did for me is kindof make me laugh at myself. I am a statistics person and I think I would lose my degree if they knew this. But that was it - for the rest of the day I imagined life being different. I went to bed (early because I get up early) with the thought in my head of "hey maybe tomorrow it all changes and I can move to Australia" and it made me sleep easier.
That line of thinking helped me realize some things I wanted to do in life that I was avoiding. It was a silly thing that made me laugh at myself and imagine a better life instead of the humdrum.
But yeah, I am still pro banning the lottery. It was depressing as heck seeing the poor people in front of me buying like $40 worth. I used pocket change...
Go ahead - laugh at me with me hah.
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It certainly won't bankrupt you or delay FIRE and by the strike of some divine being it might change your life and everyones around you.
$2 seems like a small price to pay for that.
That being said, we still don't play. (Except, I think one drunken purchase when the thing hit like 1.5B)
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Not going to lie ... I buy one now and then ... it is a nice little dream ... I love to imagine what my winnings would do and how much less I would need to work (from 8 years down to none) lol... and those dream trips that I can imagine taking with no thought to how much they would cost lol... (Australia for a month/bora bora/Easter island/Madagascar/Pee Pee island)
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As long as you can afford it and see lottery as "an entertainment expense"... I see no real issues with it.
I buy approximately 1-2 a year for $1 each.
On the other hand, my sister in law spends about $50 a week on scratch offs and is absolutely convinced she's coming out ahead. She's college educated and smart. There is no convincing her she is wrong. I've gently suggested she keep a spreadsheet of expenses vs winnings for a few months to see how she is doing, but she won't. I know they engineer these things like slot machines... to pay out JUST ENOUGH to make you feel like you want to try again.
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I've purchased exactly 3 tickets in the last decade. Only when the jackpot gets stupid high. Even then, I've skipped out on high jackpots simply because there was a line at the gas station to buy them.
It's fun to fantasize, and $6 over a decade has a negligible effect on retirement planning. You do you OP. No need to apologize to the negative nancies about a one-off.
On a side note: I'm up approx. $40 in lifetime gambling winnings/losses. An $80 win in Vegas minus some losses to gambling and the aforementioned lottery tickets, and it's hard to justify continuing to ever gamble again. Statistically I'm already way ahead of the game. But, I'll probably throw a buck or two in when it's convenient.
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I don't play the lottery, but when the pay off get's huge, sometimes I think since I haven't spent anything on
lottery tickets, I should splurge and buy $100. But, I never have.
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On a side note: I'm up approx. $40 in lifetime gambling winnings/losses. An $80 win in Vegas minus some losses to gambling and the aforementioned lottery tickets, and it's hard to justify continuing to ever gamble again. Statistically I'm already way ahead of the game. But, I'll probably throw a buck or two in when it's convenient.
FWIW: Your odds of winning in Vegas are (usually) enormous as compared to state run lotteries. Gambling regulations there maintain much higher payout percentages than most states.
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So you're saying that when I'm there next month for work, I should spend my evenings at the slots? Done! Thanks, Spork! lol
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I do this a few times a year. I buy a powerball ticket the day after the drawing, so that I get the longest amount of "dream time." It's two dollars and I spend hours, mostly while at work, dreaming of everything I could do if I won. I say I get about 6 to 10 hours of happy thoughts.
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We buy a $2 ticket every week. I know the chances of winning are astronomically small, but it's still better than the zero chance you have when you don't buy a ticket.
I could have fun with a few hundred million :) I even have my new place picked out - http://sierrastarlaketahoe.com/
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No laughter here! For most of the people on the forum, minor 'wasteful' expenses are trivial.
You recognized the real problem though when you said,
It was depressing as heck seeing the poor people in front of me buying like $40 worth. I used pocket change...
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The lottery is my favorite tax, I wish all taxes could be raised voluntarily!
The fact that it essentially taxes ignorance is even better, if only we could come up more ways to tax the lack of understanding in other areas besides basic statistics... other than the tax we all currently pay for our collective political ignorance.
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Oh man this turned out awesome!
I posted this because a while back I read an article by a respected economist that defended some (like what I am doing) lottery purchases because exactly what I was saying! On that day I bought it, I was stressed out and it was early so I couldn't go get a drink. Well, I could have... but I digress.
My brother gambles a lot on sports betting and over his lifetime is up like 30k or so. He says he has a method or something and wants me to get into it but I'd never do that.
This is something odd - I am a logical person and doing something (small) that was highly illogical felt liberating.
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I posted this somewhere before, but my wife's workplace had a patient who was spending up to $700 a day on scratch cards.
He owns a lunch truck, and said he makes anywhere from $400 to $800 a day. He keeps $100 for expenses, and spends the rest on lottery tickets. His wife is ready to leave, the collection agencies are calling, but he still thinks he's going to have that big windfall any day now.
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We buy one every once in a rare while (not even as high a rate as one per year), for the "what if" game. Yes, logically, it isn't going to happen. But, it has provided us with a lot of fun playing "what if". Much more enjoyment out of a couple of bucks than, say, a movie, or a soda out to eat (neither of which we do anyway though). We do always participate in the work lottery pool; I can think of 3 in the 15 years I've been with the company, when it gets really outrageously high, because I'm not going to be the one person left in the building. :) But, we definitely view it as a form of entertainment, and an opportunity to evaluate our priorities. What things should we be working towards anyway that we could make realistic instead of viewing as a dream or someday, that sort of thing.
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I typically buy one ticket a year for my birthday, and have done since I turned 18. It's just one of those things. Rarely, I'll go in on a pool, but I can only think of like three times in my life.
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I started doing this $2 ticket once in a while thing for similar reasons. ER is pretty much a forgone conclusion. Playing the lottery, while very unlikely is a non-zero chance at ER tomorrow.
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I buy one twice a year just in case my destiny is to win the lottery. I do see many people who actually buy a lot of tickets which is kind of sad. I also never buy into a pool because I don't want to share :)
Oh man this turned out awesome!
My brother gambles a lot on sports betting and over his lifetime is up like 30k or so. He says he has a method or something and wants me to get into it but I'd never do that.
Also, I never win at sports gambling. I am down about $200 for my lifetime and it would be more but I won't bet. Oddly enough, I am the only person I know that is not up on sports gambling. Every other person I have met where the subject comes up has never lost money doing it.
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I think there's no harm in it as long as you don't have an gambler's fallacy problem, but rather view it was purchasing the fantasy, since the odds are so insurmountable.
Personally, I have no interest in the fantasy. I'd rather have the $1 and put it in my savings account. I'm boring, I know. Maybe it has to do with my mother and sister constantly joking that "Well, when I win the lottery...[insert generous promise here]!"
I guess I'd rather scrape pennies together than dream of fistfuls of cash.
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I play for the fun of it when the jackpot here gets above 60MM - once that happens they start adding additional 1MM draws every week, so it can often get up to 20+ additional 1MM draws - so it is like getting 20+ tickets for the price of one (how's that for frugality?). Completely silly, but a cheap way to dream about retiring tomorrow instead of in 5 years and I only do it a few times a year.
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I have a pretty serious sugar addiction so when I'm in line at the grocery store feeling a really big craving for a chocolate bar or MandMs then sometimes I will buy a lottery ticket instead - both are totally wasteful items but lottery tickets don't make me fat, and there is a one in a billion chance that I could win!
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I have a pretty serious sugar addiction so when I'm in line at the grocery store feeling a really big craving for a chocolate bar or MandMs then sometimes I will buy a lottery ticket instead - both are totally wasteful items but lottery tickets don't make me fat, and there is a one in a billion chance that I could win!
That's funny, I used to drink soda and would joke that sometimes when I got gas, I'd buy a soda and a Powerball ticket, and the Powerball ticket was by far the healthier splurge. Now I've basically given up soda, so I rarely buy a ticket. But agree, a $2 ticket every once in a while isn't going to hurt anyone. And in some places, the lotto helps fund education, so it really might be helping!
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The lottery is my favorite tax, I wish all taxes could be raised voluntarily!
The fact that it essentially taxes ignorance is even better, if only we could come up more ways to tax the lack of understanding in other areas besides basic statistics... other than the tax we all currently pay for our collective political ignorance.
In the larger sense of the lottery providing revenue, it is primarily a tax on the (economically) poor, desperate and yes, less educated people. I don't think bilking them of what little they have is anything worth promoting.
In OP's circumstance though, some behavioral economists think it is rational for people to purchase the occasional mega jackpot ticket, obviously not because of the expected value, but because the enjoyment you derive from fantasizing about what you would do is worth more than the $2 or whatever you spent.
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I definitely will not criticize you for wanting to play. Every now and then I'll play a little maybe $5-20 a month if I've got the itch. Recently though, I can't even recall the last time I bought a ticket. It has to have been over a year or more.
My direct family member was the recipient of $100,000 on a $20 scratch-off ticket. So, I've seen it happen and I have actually won quite a bit as well (no where near 100k). I definitely don't advocate it, it's just something to do for fun like a once or twice a year trip to the casino for me. And I always look at the odds before I buy a ticket.
There is darkness to this story though. Other more distant family members saw this happen as well. I've watched them pour countless amounts of money in to the point they have actually harmed their finances since that winning ticket. I guess they thought they would be next.
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I 99% agree.
it can be a great stress relief, can be fun, and if you want to spend your money on it, go for it.
100% disagree on stopping two people from trading funds for a service/product. Even if one of those people is government.
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Have you considered moving to a rental place close to your house, to reduce your daily commuting stress?
And, yes it is fine with me that you de-stress yourself with a lottery ticket. This was probably a cheap solution. I sometimes dream of winning the lottery, but unfortunately I never will, because I never buy lottery tickets...
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At my office, we have a group of 40 people in a lottery pool, $1/week. The lady who runs it collects $10 every ten weeks rather than worrying about collecting weekly. For my budgeting purposes, I show that as insurance as I don't want to be the only one in the office who has to work on the morning after an impossible win.
We did match 4 white balls and the red on one draw last year. $50,000 (less 30% federal and state taxes) divided by 38 people led to a check of $921 each. I classified this as insurance payout in the budget.
(2 people joined the pool after we won $50,000 hoping that lightning will strike twice).
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I just can't bring myself to buy a lotto ticket unless the math says it's an okay bet. This means that I never buy the scratchers (they return like $0.30 to the dollar). I never do the pick 3 or pick 4 (which return $0.50 to the dollar). I will consider buying tickets if the large lottos are at the right price. That's $491 million for powerball, as an example. With the $491 million jackpot, it's about an even money bet, ignoring taxes and the odds of a split.
Yeah, I know that winning $500 million isn't going to make my life that much better than winning only $230 million, but it's just a math thing. I have bought $10 in tickets when the powerball was over $600 million. I would probably do it again, although it rarely happens and the lines at the store are almost intolerable when it's that high.
I don't mind taking a slightly losing bet, especially if it means I will have a chance to take a winning bet later, but most of the time the cost of the lotto is just too steep.
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I buy them once in awhile, but only when the office pool goes around, because I don't want to be the one person who didn't buy a ticket when the company shuts down. :P I see buying a lottery ticket as buying access to daydreams about what you would do if you won. When I buy them, I get some enjoyment out of creating plans for what would go down, which generally would just mean quitting my job now, travelling more, and designing a custom home that suits my particular lifestyle.
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
That's not to say the jackpot wouldn't be awesome; depending on how much it is, we'd be able to give away a significant amount to help make our families' lives more comfortable. But the goal for me is FIRE, and the smaller prize works just as well.
But then this is all hypothetical, because I don't even carry cash 95% of the time, so I couldn't buy a ticket if I wanted to.
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
That's not to say the jackpot wouldn't be awesome; depending on how much it is, we'd be able to give away a significant amount to help make our families' lives more comfortable. But the goal for me is FIRE, and the smaller prize works just as well.
But then this is all hypothetical, because I don't even carry cash 95% of the time, so I couldn't buy a ticket if I wanted to.
Although your odds of success would still be abysmal they would actually be much better while the jackpot is still only 1 Million as opposed to when it raises much higher due to more people buying tickets and buying more tickets at that once the award gets much higher.
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
That's not to say the jackpot wouldn't be awesome; depending on how much it is, we'd be able to give away a significant amount to help make our families' lives more comfortable. But the goal for me is FIRE, and the smaller prize works just as well.
But then this is all hypothetical, because I don't even carry cash 95% of the time, so I couldn't buy a ticket if I wanted to.
Although your odds of success would still be abysmal they would actually be much better while the jackpot is still only 1 Million as opposed to when it raises much higher due to more people buying tickets and buying more tickets at that once the award gets much higher.
Nope. Your odds of winning are the same either way, you just have a higher chance of SPLITTING the jackpot the more people buy tickets. They don't increase the number of balls (numbers) when more people play.
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The NCAA men's basketball tournament switches into high-gear today. I am spending $10 entering a work office pool. Trying to decide whether it's worth a second entry at $10 more.
I think this is a much better investment than the lottery.
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We buy a few scratchers and occasionally a ticket every now and then. A few dollars here and there won't mess up our retirement and we consider it more a entertainment expense.
I'm always amazed when I hear people say 'oh I only buy one when the pot is big" since your odds of winning are the same regardless of the size of the pot. And honestly don't they start at 10 or 20 million anyway? I mean I'd be fine with 2 million. I don't know that I'd ever want or need the hassle of trying to figure out what to do with 300 million LOL
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
That's not to say the jackpot wouldn't be awesome; depending on how much it is, we'd be able to give away a significant amount to help make our families' lives more comfortable. But the goal for me is FIRE, and the smaller prize works just as well.
But then this is all hypothetical, because I don't even carry cash 95% of the time, so I couldn't buy a ticket if I wanted to.
Although your odds of success would still be abysmal they would actually be much better while the jackpot is still only 1 Million as opposed to when it raises much higher due to more people buying tickets and buying more tickets at that once the award gets much higher.
Nope. Your odds of winning are the same either way, you just have a higher chance of SPLITTING the jackpot the more people buy tickets. They don't increase the number of balls (numbers) when more people play.
If you want to increase your odds (and they'll still suck) buy multiple, overlapping tickets. For example, if you need to pick 6:
* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
* 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
* 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
etcetera
This means if prizes are handed out for matching 3, 4, 5.... you'll multiple matches of 3, 4, 5. You are still "just as likely" to win the big pot and much more likely to win multiple small pots.
This is also counter intuitive to everyone that plays. They'll want 10 numbers that are all vastly different instead of 10 numbers that overlap.
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
That's not to say the jackpot wouldn't be awesome; depending on how much it is, we'd be able to give away a significant amount to help make our families' lives more comfortable. But the goal for me is FIRE, and the smaller prize works just as well.
But then this is all hypothetical, because I don't even carry cash 95% of the time, so I couldn't buy a ticket if I wanted to.
Although your odds of success would still be abysmal they would actually be much better while the jackpot is still only 1 Million as opposed to when it raises much higher due to more people buying tickets and buying more tickets at that once the award gets much higher.
Nope. Your odds of winning are the same either way, you just have a higher chance of SPLITTING the jackpot the more people buy tickets. They don't increase the number of balls (numbers) when more people play.
Depends on the lottery, didn't know there were ones that did split the pot.
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I totally support a $1 or $2 escape-from-reality fantasy purchase. Just remember that if God [or Karma, or your deity of choice, or The Force] wants you to win, you only need one ticket!
I've thought about how my life might change if I won a big jackpot, and I'm not sure I'd want that: Suddenly a million needy people/organizations/family members would be tracking me down and begging me for a piece of the pie, laying on a massive guilt trip. Probably the first thing I'd do is smash my cell phone, buy an RV and disappear for a few months. (Spoken like a true introvert!!)
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I've been finding scratch-offs in DW's van from time to time, which sets me on a slow burn... I don't mention it because I believe in a peaceful marriage, but if I start seeing more of them I definitely will. I see nothing wrong with the occasional buy when the Powerball or Mega is insanely high, but regular purchases of scratch-offs is a no-no in my book. That said, we do go to the riverboat casino a couple of times a year, each taking $100. That I see as an entertainment expense as it's a night out for us, and it's rare for both of us to lose our entire $100.
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I had a friend who liked to buy a ticket right before a long road trip, so they could spend the trip fantasizing about what they'd do with it. It was maybe a $2-3 per year, certainly not enough to be a drain on their finances, and they were well aware of the odds, it was just for the fun.
My mom likes to buy scratch-offs for my sister and I for Christmas, cause she likes to watch us scratch them. Oddly, my sister has incredible luck with scratch offs, and has actually come out ahead by a few bucks, all told.
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A $2 million ticket was sold at the gas station I go to regularly. I'm bummed I missed out.
They sold a $1 million about 6 months ago. Clearly they are lucky and I should play more often. /um, no
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I never buy lottery tickets cause I don't think they are worth it, but a few tickets here and there for a couple dollars isn't really a big deal. I just don't see the fun of it. I'm not a big gambler though, I'll go to the casino with 40 bucks and play roulette, usually I come out even or ahead and buy a few drinks. I see it as an entertainment expense and not a real shot at winning a jackpot. It is sad to see people wasting too much of their limited money on slots and scratch tickets hoping that they will make it big..
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When Powerball or megamillions goes to say over $300M I may buy a ticket. I figure the dollar or two cost of the ticket is worth the price to dream what I would do if I won.
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Bought a few in my lifetime.
You don't need to buy one to have fun fantasizing about winning though.
Instead, pretend that you'll find the winning ticket accidentally discarded on the ground.
Its about the same odds when you consider the near impossibility of winning anyway, but you don't have to pay anything to 'play'.
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If anything, the statistic-minded hysteria about how horrible it is to purchase a ticket is what's silly.
Anything you spend $1 on is trivial and unlikely to lead to happiness. If you do it twice, it's not like saving those TWO dollars would have bought you happiness. If a pattern emerges where you spend $10, $20, $30 a month etc. on tickets, you're blowing a real potential investment. Even buying a few dollars a month could matter if you saved it for some specific purpose.
But if blowing just that $1 every time you can't remember the last time you did it buys you 4 daydreams about a better life, 15 minutes of elevated mood, one "what if you won?" session with a coworker, and a several-page forum thread, you could do worse with a dollar.
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If you're okay being average, play the lottery
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If anything, the statistic-minded hysteria about how horrible it is to purchase a ticket is what's silly.
Yup. Anytime the word "lottery" is mentioned on the internet, 100 people have to chime in with "well I don't play and have never bought a ticket and it's a tax on people bad with math and blah blah blah." The self-righteousness is tiresome. No one cares that you don't play. And there's a difference between "spend maybe $10 a year on tickets" and "spend $50/wk on tickets".
The other day I bought a $1 bag of M&Ms out of the vending machine at work because I had a late meeting and I was hungry. Most people can understand the difference between that and eating a Costco-sized sack every week. But they have a hard time making that distinction with lotto tickets for some reason.
BTW, Powerball is $2/ticket
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If anything, the statistic-minded hysteria about how horrible it is to purchase a ticket is what's silly.
Yup. Anytime the word "lottery" is mentioned on the internet, 100 people have to chime in with "well I don't play and have never bought a ticket and it's a tax on people bad with math and blah blah blah." The self-righteousness is tiresome. No one cares that you don't play. And there's a difference between "spend maybe $10 a year on tickets" and "spend $50/wk on tickets".
The other day I bought a $1 bag of M&Ms out of the vending machine at work because I had a late meeting and I was hungry. Most people can understand the difference between that and eating a Costco-sized sack every week. But they have a hard time making that distinction with lotto tickets for some reason.
BTW, Powerball is $2/ticket
Voluntarily spending extra at a vending machine is buying you convenience. That doesn't really equate to spending money on something which (for practical purposes) provides absolutely nothing.
The defense is that it buys 'Entertainment', and I countered that, statistically, you don't have to actually buy the ticket to share in the entertainment.
If folks seriously can't think of anything better that $1 - $2 might buy for them, then have at it. I'd probably argue they just really haven't thought about it though.
At a convenience store, that $1-$2 could buy you a coffee or apple or something else tangible. It also could just end up staying in your wallet where it might be put in a Park donation tube, turned into quarters for a spur of the moment video game, used to tip someone you might not have been able to otherwise, or any other creative purpose (extra girl scout cookie purchase?)
As a person who carries a very limited quantity of cash, perhaps I may be more sensitive to 'cash-only' scenario effects. The main thing I'm suggesting is an occasional sanity check to make sure lottery tickets are really providing adequate happiness returns for your discretionary dollars.
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As a person who carries a very limited quantity of cash, perhaps I may be more sensitive to 'cash-only' scenario effects. The main thing I'm suggesting is an occasional sanity check to make sure lottery tickets are really providing adequate happiness returns for your discretionary dollars.
You offered a videogame (arcade game). Why do you need to play it? Stand near the machine and watch while someone else plays it!
It's a little different if you are involved yourself...
But I think we otherwise agree. Nobody here would be likely to advocate spending double digits on lottery tickets in a year. If buying 2 or 3 is your only stupid thing and all your other finances are in order, I just don't see the need for hysteria about it. No one who spent $3 on something in a year was charging after a bad investment.
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As a person who carries a very limited quantity of cash, perhaps I may be more sensitive to 'cash-only' scenario effects. The main thing I'm suggesting is an occasional sanity check to make sure lottery tickets are really providing adequate happiness returns for your discretionary dollars.
You offered a videogame (arcade game). Why do you need to play it? Stand near the machine and watch while someone else plays it!
It's a little different if you are involved yourself...
But I think we otherwise agree. Nobody here would be likely to advocate spending double digits on lottery tickets in a year. If buying 2 or 3 is your only stupid thing and all your other finances are in order, I just don't see the need for hysteria about it. No one who spent $3 on something in a year was charging after a bad investment.
There are people that enjoy watching Let's Plays though...
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There are people that enjoy watching Let's Plays though...
Absolutely!
The previous poster actually suggested playing a game by putting in a quarter, however. The two examples are not the same videogame-derived entertainment. E-Sport Watching Other People Buy Lottery Tickets is still really, really, really, really, really niche.
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There are people that enjoy watching Let's Plays though...
Absolutely!
The previous poster actually suggested playing a game by putting in a quarter, however. The two examples are not the same videogame-derived entertainment. E-Sport Watching Other People Buy Lottery Tickets is still really, really, really, really, really niche.
I was mostly just playing around with the statement. As for the actual topic I don't partake in the lottery or any game of pure chance since it holds no interest even for entertainment purposes. I do have problems with people partaking in the lottery for the sake of entertainment, I do however have a problem with many lottery systems that seem to be a lazy way to tax poor ignorant people that often invest far more in to the lottery than necessary for entertainment and sometimes more than they can afford.
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I was mostly just playing around with the statement. As for the actual topic I don't partake in the lottery or any game of pure chance since it holds no interest even for entertainment purposes. I do have problems with people partaking in the lottery for the sake of entertainment, I do however have a problem with many lottery systems that seem to be a lazy way to tax poor ignorant people that often invest far more in to the lottery than necessary for entertainment and sometimes more than they can afford.
Also agree. Punishing ignorance is no substitute for better teaching (though the two aren't always mutually exclusive).
And we basically don't teach finance at all.
There is no mandatory HS senior AND college senior class everyone should have to take quite like Finance 101. Or Sex Ed 101.
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There is no mandatory HS senior AND college senior class everyone should have to take quite like Finance 101. Or Sex Ed 101.
We had a local city requirement for a Finance 101 when I was in high school. Unfortunately it had to be designed as a "make sure everyone passes" class. It was terrible. Worse than terrible. In retrospect it seems like it was such a fundamentally good idea. In practice it was something akin to a 4th grade math class.
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I buy tickets in the office pools when the big jackpots show up. That's mostly insurance though - nobody wants to be the only person to show up at the office if the pool actually wins.
That is exactly why I've always played office pools. At my last company about 2/3 of the company took part - including the all the scientists\patent holders\lead engineers. Some incredibly specialized talent so there was zero doubt in my mind that if the office pool had won the company would have been out of business in months
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The things you learn on MMM :) ...
QUOTE: If you want to increase your odds (and they'll still suck) buy multiple, overlapping tickets. For example, if you need to pick 6:
* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
* 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
* 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
etcetera
This means if prizes are handed out for matching 3, 4, 5.... you'll multiple matches of 3, 4, 5. You are still "just as likely" to win the big pot and much more likely to win multiple small pots.
This is also counter intuitive to everyone that plays. They'll want 10 numbers that are all vastly different instead of 10 numbers that overlap
END OF QUOTE
It's fun to imagine - what if??!:) I buy them off and on, usually when things aren't going so well and always a few during the holidays and New Year.
Maybe total investment of $30 to $50max a year.
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You offered a videogame (arcade game). Why do you need to play it? Stand near the machine and watch while someone else plays it!
It's a little different if you are involved yourself...
I actually did this (stand nearby and watch) when I was in college, because if I put money in, I'd get to see about 2 minutes worth of play, if I watched someone good I got to see much further into the game, more levels and such.
I've played only the 3-4 times there was a big office pool, both to avoid the "don't want to be the only one left coming into work" chance and because I got to participate in the discussions with everyone else about what they would do with the money.
Slee_Stacks suggestion of pretending you found a ticket on the ground reminded me of a comic (Dogbert in the Dilbert strip maybe?) where someone was selling losing tickets for half price the day AFTER a drawing, "Only 1 in 200 million lower chance of winning!" :)
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I like using lottery tickets as gifts. There's a 50% house edge, but it seems as though many other gifts involve a substantial deterioration of value, and at least lottery tickets don't take up much space.
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Oddly, in my "win the Powerball" fantasies, I generally hope to win the $1,000,000 prize as opposed to the jackpot. After taxes, it comes to about $665,000 (taking into account our W-2 income). That's enough to be FI immediately, and RE if we really wanted to. But it comes without the stress of winning a massive jackpot and worrying about how people are going to come knocking on your door with a hand out.
If you want to increase your odds (and they'll still suck) buy multiple, overlapping tickets. For example, if you need to pick 6:
* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
* 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
* 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
etcetera
This means if prizes are handed out for matching 3, 4, 5.... you'll multiple matches of 3, 4, 5. You are still "just as likely" to win the big pot and much more likely to win multiple small pots.
This is also counter intuitive to everyone that plays. They'll want 10 numbers that are all vastly different instead of 10 numbers that overlap.
It seems more mathematically in your favor if you had non overlapping numbers? With non overlapping numbers you are guaranteed to have every number on a few tickets. At that point it's just a matter of the arrangement of the numbers. Any thoughts on this?
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Start a savings account (https://www.longgame.co/) that gives you chances to win $1,000,000 as a natural part of savings.
Here is a very thorough (http://moneymetagame.com/metagame/long-game-savings-app-review-and-optimal-strategy/) breakdown of the account.
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I admit I buy one from time to time. I enjoy the momentary suspension of disbelief :)
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I always thought my idea to the work lottery pool was pretty decent. My office lottery pool is a "reasonable" $2/week, however still too rich for myself. So what I did was go in on a half share with someone, so I pay $1/week, so I would get a half share of any winnings.
"Wouldn't you feel dumb if we all won $1 million and you only got 500K?" " "I guees I'd have to live with that." is my usual response, when I'm really thinking "500K would enable me to retire today, and all you other sukkas would still be working here for another 10-20 years, even with your million."
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. I went to bed (early because I get up early) with the thought in my head of "hey maybe tomorrow it all changes and I can move to Australia" and it made me sleep easier.
As someone who has recently been reading "Alexander and the horrible, terrible, no good very bad day" this made me literally laugh out loud.
Buying an occasional lottery ticket is no different from going for an occasional ice cream in my opinion.
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I've been finding scratch-offs in DW's van from time to time, which sets me on a slow burn... I don't mention it because I believe in a peaceful marriage, but if I start seeing more of them I definitely will. I see nothing wrong with the occasional buy when the Powerball or Mega is insanely high, but regular purchases of scratch-offs is a no-no in my book. That said, we do go to the riverboat casino a couple of times a year, each taking $100. That I see as an entertainment expense as it's a night out for us, and it's rare for both of us to lose our entire $100.
Why not collect DW's spent scratch-offs and enter them in the Second Chance Drawing? How cool would that be? Edited to clarify: if you won from her cast-offs.
If you really wanted to be a jerk, you could keep track of the number of scratch-offs you find and subtract the total from her riverboat "entertainment" money. Just remember that divorce is really, really expensive.
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Face punches for anyone buying a lottery ticket.
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Not going to lie ... I buy one now and then ... it is a nice little dream ... I love to imagine what my winnings would do and how much less I would need to work (from 8 years down to none) lol... and those dream trips that I can imagine taking with no thought to how much they would cost lol... (Australia for a month/bora bora/Easter island/Madagascar/Pee Pee island)
I know I did buy one lottery ticket.
I might have bought one more.
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I've never bought a lottery ticket myself but I have played in a few (less than 5) office pools. It is fun to think about what you could do with the winnings. I do wonder if that is counter productive since it could make you less happy with your current life.
We recently had a lady in the office retire and all gave $20 to her. Two of the guys spent their $20 on scratch off's rather than giving her cash. She "won" $27 from the $40 worth of tickets which I figured was about right because they said these tickets had a 75% payout. (75% would be $30 and they have to pay a little less than that normally to save up for the occasional larger prize) I was thinking that they just wasted $13 but one of the guys said "That worked out pretty well. She made almost all her money back." I guess that's the mentality you need to have if you play often (he plays all the time and frequently talks about not coming back to work "when I win the lottery").
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Calculations below, which include the cost of a ticket. So after the pot is around $850 million or above, you will statistically make money on a ticket purchase.
**NOTE** this does not include calculations for split pot, as that is not always the same for each pot and is generally logarithmic, much more difficult to predict. There was a Business Insider article where they tried, but it wasn't all that helpful. My thoughts are, above $850 million, your only gamble is if you split the pot or not.
Edit to clarify: this is for USA Powerball specifically, though USA Mega Millions is very similar. I can't provide input on scratch offs and other countries lotteries, I haven't looked at them.
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I bought my first lottery ticket back in 2013 when the winnings were insanely high and a friend suggested we go get one. And just like OP I immensely enjoyed the dreaming aspect of the experience. What was especially interesting to me was to discover, even with an unfathomable amount of imaginary money, my tastes are quite modest. I wanted to quit my job, move to a beautiful part of the country, build a house of my own design, adopt a child... and that was about it. It was a very illuminating thought exercise that showed me that everything I wanted in life was attainable. It’s been 6 years since then, I didn’t win the lottery, and I’ve achieved all but one of those life goals.
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I'll never play the lottery, but if it gave you some emotional comfort and you recognize it for that, I see no issue. I think there are all sorts of purchases made that are along a similar line.
We went on a cruise a few months ago with some friends. They wanted to play Bingo. $30 per card? I really didn't like the idea of it, but decided to play anyway since it was with friends. We had a good time, but then when I saw how little the winner got (she purchased 8 cards) compared to the overall buy in, I was so disgusted. The cruise ship was killing it on the margin for these games. I mean it was outrageous. I would have been far better statistically to head to the casino and it wasn't even close. Now that I think about it more, this type of game is the easiest way to get people because they don't even ask about the details of the payouts when they're having fun on a cruise.
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At my office, we have a group of 40 people in a lottery pool, $1/week. The lady who runs it collects $10 every ten weeks rather than worrying about collecting weekly. For my budgeting purposes, I show that as insurance as I don't want to be the only one in the office who has to work on the morning after an impossible win.
We did match 4 white balls and the red on one draw last year. $50,000 (less 30% federal and state taxes) divided by 38 people led to a check of $921 each. I classified this as insurance payout in the budget.
(2 people joined the pool after we won $50,000 hoping that lightning will strike twice).
Similar situation here. Used to play the lottery once in a while years ago. Now I just do a work one where I contribute a couple of bucks once in a while, so if there is a big win, I'm not the only one left in the office! The amount of tickets we go through is crazy, and our winnings have been minimal at best!
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I spend $20 on a special holiday raffle in my state. They sell 200,000. The grand prize is 1 million dollars and there are various early bird prizes for buying the ticket in September. Supposedly my odds of winning something are 1 in 5.
I've never won anything in the 10 years or so that I've played, and I don't think $1,000,000 after tax would even change my life at this point. Not that I'd turn it down. It would be a cool Christmas gift.
I don't know why I buy it other than a bit of fun and fantasy. My husband makes fun of me for it.
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I think people buy tickets because they want to dream about a financially fulfilling life. Many of us are lucky enough that we will get there by good planning, but not everyone's in the same position.
I don't play lottery but I did make a mid-6 figure killing on an educated investment, and while it made my FIRE plans moderately easier, it did nothing else to make me happier and I didn't change my spending as a result. But of course I didn't see the windfall as a "lottery win" so I didn't allow it to affect anything other than my FIRE timeframe.
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I see your logic. I don't disagree when it's "FUN money" you play with instead of grocery money.
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I've won thousands of dollars over my lifetime by not playing the lottery. It's a couple bucks every time you don't play, compounded.
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I organized a couple of people in the office to buy mega millions tickets when the jackpot got big in May. at first it was fun, but as we kept losing cycle-after-cycle, I felt like I was leading a rush into disaster. And everyone seemed happier for it, even as I was impoverishing them.
I've done my time, now, won't do it again.
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I've won thousands of dollars over my lifetime by not playing the lottery. It's a couple bucks every time you don't play, compounded.
The forum needs a like button.
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Calculations below, which include the cost of a ticket. So after the pot is around $850 million or above, you will statistically make money on a ticket purchase.
**NOTE** this does not include calculations for split pot, as that is not always the same for each pot and is generally logarithmic, much more difficult to predict. There was a Business Insider article where they tried, but it wasn't all that helpful. My thoughts are, above $850 million, your only gamble is if you split the pot or not.
Edit to clarify: this is for USA Powerball specifically, though USA Mega Millions is very similar. I can't provide input on scratch offs and other countries lotteries, I haven't looked at them.
More importantly, what this truly doesn't take into account is the utility value of that money. How one approaches utility value results in the perspective of whether the lottery is a good play or not.
1) The typical lottery player sees the utility value of the money they have leftover at the end of the week as essentially worthless, since they've payed all their bills and now they have fun money. Meanwhile, winning the lottery will change a life of drudgery to a life of unmatched hedonism, which is a great thing, right? Clearly this seems like a bargain, irrespective of the billion-to-one odds of winning (which are practically unfathomable).
2) The Mustachian realizes that the typical view of a dollar's utility is very skewed. Consider this: my first thousand dollars are worth more to me than my next nine thousand (since not having that first thousand is the difference between food and shelter for a month and being homeless), and my first $100k is worth more than the next $900k (since emergencies happen), one comes to realize that past a million dollars or so, the next $999 million pales in comparison given the additional utility it provides. Put another way: If I had a million dollars, and someone allowed me to put that money down for even (1-to-1) odds of winning a billion dollars, I would say no way*, despite the expected outcome of increasing my fortune to half a billion dollars. When considered this way, the lottery is practically worthless relative to that dollar one has spent on a dream.
*This assumes I had no way to hedge my bets, of course.
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I won't buy them for anyone other than my husband. If someone won money on a ticket that I bought, I'd probably feel sad. I participated in an office pool once because I didn't want to be the only one to have to come to the office the next day. Surprise, we didn't win. Maybe once a year I'll buy one for myself. Once I needed change and had to purchase something, so I bought a $1 scratch off and won $400. Mostly, I lose. My husband buys one once in a while and he usually finds a couple in his stocking or Easter Basket. He's won $1000 a few times. He won $300 earlier this year. As long as it is only a couple of dollars now and then, I don't mind. We don't have many vices.
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More importantly, what this truly doesn't take into account is the utility value of that money. How one approaches utility value results in the perspective of whether the lottery is a good play or not.
1) The typical lottery player sees the utility value of the money they have leftover at the end of the week as essentially worthless, since they've payed all their bills and now they have fun money. Meanwhile, winning the lottery will change a life of drudgery to a life of unmatched hedonism, which is a great thing, right? Clearly this seems like a bargain, irrespective of the billion-to-one odds of winning (which are practically unfathomable).
2) The Mustachian realizes that the typical view of a dollar's utility is very skewed. Consider this: my first thousand dollars are worth more to me than my next nine thousand (since not having that first thousand is the difference between food and shelter for a month and being homeless), and my first $100k is worth more than the next $900k (since emergencies happen), one comes to realize that past a million dollars or so, the next $999 million pales in comparison given the additional utility it provides. Put another way: If I had a million dollars, and someone allowed me to put that money down for even (1-to-1) odds of winning a billion dollars, I would say no way*, despite the expected outcome of increasing my fortune to half a billion dollars. When considered this way, the lottery is practically worthless relative to that dollar one has spent on a dream.
*This assumes I had no way to hedge my bets, of course.
This is a great explanation. I've thought the same thing in general but never heard it explained so well.
Additionally, most calculations of whether it's mathematically a good idea to play don't take into account the taxes paid and the lesser amount if you take the cash option vs the annual payments. Those just take an already bad idea and make it worse. Of course, most lottery players don't pay any attention to the math.
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Even if the lottery is (on average) a losing proposition, the variance has value.
Linking YOUR variance to those around you sure seems wise to me.
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Even if the lottery is (on average) a losing proposition, the variance has value.
Linking YOUR variance to those around you sure seems wise to me.
Doesn't seem wise to me at all. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. 2$ in your bank account is worth more than unrealized potential multi-millions. But YMMV.
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Sharing a lottery ticket with another person basically means your income is correlated with that person's. You rise and fall together.
I suppose if that person is your co-worker, you are probably linked anyway, as the firm going bankrupt will affect both of your income.
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Sure . . . but I don't understand why linking your income to that of someone else is supposed to be a good thing. Most of us are way the fuck better with my money than the average person. That sort of linking should therefore be minimized to the greatest extent.
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More importantly, what this truly doesn't take into account is the utility value of that money. How one approaches utility value results in the perspective of whether the lottery is a good play or not.
1) The typical lottery player sees the utility value of the money they have leftover at the end of the week as essentially worthless, since they've payed all their bills and now they have fun money. Meanwhile, winning the lottery will change a life of drudgery to a life of unmatched hedonism, which is a great thing, right? Clearly this seems like a bargain, irrespective of the billion-to-one odds of winning (which are practically unfathomable).
2) The Mustachian realizes that the typical view of a dollar's utility is very skewed. Consider this: my first thousand dollars are worth more to me than my next nine thousand (since not having that first thousand is the difference between food and shelter for a month and being homeless), and my first $100k is worth more than the next $900k (since emergencies happen), one comes to realize that past a million dollars or so, the next $999 million pales in comparison given the additional utility it provides. Put another way: If I had a million dollars, and someone allowed me to put that money down for even (1-to-1) odds of winning a billion dollars, I would say no way*, despite the expected outcome of increasing my fortune to half a billion dollars. When considered this way, the lottery is practically worthless relative to that dollar one has spent on a dream.
*This assumes I had no way to hedge my bets, of course.
Very true and well said.
This is a great explanation. I've thought the same thing in general but never heard it explained so well.
Additionally, most calculations of whether it's mathematically a good idea to play don't take into account the taxes paid and the lesser amount if you take the cash option vs the annual payments. Those just take an already bad idea and make it worse. Of course, most lottery players don't pay any attention to the math.
My calculations included taxes and annuity vs lump sum, and still shows that the value of every purchased ticket is $2.01 if the pot is $850 million, and increases as the pot gets bigger. At $1.586 billion (which was what the biggest one was), the value of your $2 ticket is $3.47, statistically.
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Sure . . . but I don't understand why linking your income to that of someone else is supposed to be a good thing. Most of us are way the fuck better with my money than the average person. That sort of linking should therefore be minimized to the greatest extent.
It depends on price. Because I've paid $1 (and--being a dedicated mustachian--I've amassed $300,000), the idiots I work with (who--let's assume--have amassed a $300,000 mortgage and no other assets) feel...more connected to me. Seeking human connection isn't bad, and it's with people we have to see at work anyway.
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The lottery is my favorite tax, I wish all taxes could be raised voluntarily!
The fact that it essentially taxes ignorance is even better, if only we could come up more ways to tax the lack of understanding in other areas besides basic statistics... other than the tax we all currently pay for our collective political ignorance.
There are several “taxes” that rely on ignorance. The lottery is one. The income tax is another: people pay significantly more due to a lack of planning and ignorance of the impact of their decisions than they would otherwise. Indeed, even the voting system relies on a fundamental ignorance of statistics. The pro-voting crowd loves to say that “your vote counts!” And mathematically speaking it does in those very, very few cases where there is a tie and one vote ends up deciding the outcome. Now there are probably more powerball winners in any given year than there are tied elections, but that doesn’t seem to matter. 125 million+ voted in 2016. The difference is you win several million dollars if you win the powerball. If you cast the winning vote in an election, you get a politician.
The moral of the story? Invest in lotto ticket suppliers.
BTW, love the site handle.
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This and fancy coffees seem to always be the cliche ones. I've always been of the mindset who cares, purchases like this fall into the "noise" spectrum of finance. Many people here are at least in the top 10% of financial prudence, and *anything* that costs less than $100 a year in isolation isn't going to change a thing. If something on it's own comes in at a percent of a percent of your annual income, it's just not a factor. That's why finance ppl suggest tackling big things like housing and cars first. Because saving $50/yr on the lotto isn't even the same sport as downsizing a $3k mortgage to a $1k rent payment. If you have someone scraping by saving little, *regardless* of what they do with the $50 lotto costs, it will lead to either a good savings rate should they downsize saving 24k/yr, or scraping by should they not.
Pinching pennies like this doesn't hurt of course, but won't change anything. The options are basically a savings rate of 0 (big home + scratchies), 50/yr (big home, no scratchies), or 24k/yr (small home, scratchies) or 24.05k/yr (small home, no scratchies). I'd posit situations 1 and 2 are identical, as are 3 ad 4.
The things you learn on MMM :) ...
QUOTE: If you want to increase your odds (and they'll still suck) buy multiple, overlapping tickets. For example, if you need to pick 6:
* 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6
* 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7
* 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
etcetera
This means if prizes are handed out for matching 3, 4, 5.... you'll multiple matches of 3, 4, 5. You are still "just as likely" to win the big pot and much more likely to win multiple small pots.
This is also counter intuitive to everyone that plays. They'll want 10 numbers that are all vastly different instead of 10 numbers that overlap
END OF QUOTE
It's fun to imagine - what if??!:) I buy them off and on, usually when things aren't going so well and always a few during the holidays and New Year.
Maybe total investment of $30 to $50max a year.
This is not the case. You are predicating the entire thing on "well if several of the winning numbers fall between 3-6, and then I just vary the other two for numerous combinations, I will win more small prizes". The problem is you are ignoring the probability of "several winning numbers falling between 3-6". It will adjust the variance of payouts, but likely not how much you lose over the long haul.
Here's a thought exercise. Assume you have a typical 6/49 situation, and you "corner" the combos from 1 to 10. You'll have 10*9*8*7*6*5 = 151k tickets, of 49*48*47*46*45*44 = 10b combinations. So you seem to be saying that if all the winning numbers are in the 1-10 range, then in this case you have a 100% chance of winning - which is right, except for the fact that you didn't account for the conditionality of all numbers being in the 1-10 range, which will be 10/49 * 9/48... *5/44 = ~0.00151%.
Here's another fun question that demonstrates the point, up until which number would you need to buy every combo to ensure a 50% chance of winning?
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Most people think it's somewhere near the middle around 25, but in reality it's closer to the 90% range. Its actually solving for 0.50 = n^6 or about 0.89. Or .89*49 (rounding up to nearest whole number) = 44. So 44!/38! = 5.08B, or just over half the 10B combos from 1-49. Excluding only the numbers of 45-49 mean you have an entire 50% fewer combos to worry about. So you have 100% overlap and coverage, of 50% of the landscape. Vs 5b random combos, which would have you 50% coverage, over 100% of the landscape.
Face punches for anyone buying a lottery ticket.
Are you really an actuary? Presumably you don't also want to face punch people buying insurance, despite the fact that it is financially identical to the lottery?
In both cases, you have a huge payout, tied to a pseudo-random event, however the likelihood and costs of that event is almost always going to be significantly lower that the costs charged to the consumer as a premium or wager. The only difference is that in the case of insurance, the random event also has huge negatives costs come with it, so that the windfall more or less exactly offsets it.
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I don't see anything wrong with the occasional lottery ticket as long as it is treated as entertainment only. I spend maybe $20 a year on lottery tickets, and that's for special occasions like birthdays and Christmas. I like to buy Hubby a few scratch-offs for Christmas Eve. This year I only had $6 in my wallet, so I bought him 3 of the "win $1,000 per week scratch-offs." I guess I could have taken that $6 and bought him 2 cans of Boddington's instead, but then we wouldn't have the fun of seeing if we're winners on Christmas Eve. Either way, we'll just be pissing it away one way or the other, but checking the tickets on Christmas Eve is always fun and worth the few bucks.
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There are several “taxes” that rely on ignorance. The lottery is one. The income tax is another: people pay significantly more due to a lack of planning and ignorance of the impact of their decisions than they would otherwise. Indeed, even the voting system relies on a fundamental ignorance of statistics. The pro-voting crowd loves to say that “your vote counts!” And mathematically speaking it does in those very, very few cases where there is a tie and one vote ends up deciding the outcome. Now there are probably more powerball winners in any given year than there are tied elections, but that doesn’t seem to matter. 125 million+ voted in 2016. The difference is you win several million dollars if you win the powerball. If you cast the winning vote in an election, you get a politician.
Sorry to say, but there's an extremely big difference between voting and buying a lottery ticket. On the micro level you're right, any individual vote is extremely unlikely to affect the outcome of an election. This is similar to how any one worker ant is irrelevant to the success of the colony, or how any one coal-rolling jockey is irrelevant to environmental health. However, one should consider the macro-level results from micro-level efforts: Of course the ant colony needs the collective efforts of the individual ants, and the collective emissions from millions of automobiles has caused significant environmental harm. Voting is similar: Without the collective strength of the electorate, democracy (or republicanism) is a sham that results in despotic control of the government by the few who have a vote.
On the other hand, the collective efforts of playing the lottery are fairly pathetic: One or two individuals become fabulously wealthy, a shit-ton of individuals become slightly poorer, and the state's coffers grow by about a third of the funds collected (on average)*. If that 1-to-a-billion odds of living the dream are worth it to you, then fine, more power to you. But don't insult the institution of voting by equating it to playing the lottery, lest you cherish the idea of living in tyranny (forget not that most monarchies and dictatorships began with a "vote" for the leader).
*None of which goes to "schools" as often advertised.
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I do buy a ticket once every year or so to spend a few days daydreaming. The dollar-to-time ratio makes it very cheap entertainment. And I know it won’t happen, unlike a friend who calls it her retirement plan and thinks she can attract it to her.
BUT. A business in my town won the largest jackpot in state history earlier this year. Twenty something of them went in on it. After taxes & lump sum discount they each took home more than $7 million. I’m pretty sure it isn’t good for my brain to know that it really is possible! And not everyone who worked there went in; the horror of being left out seems worth a few bucks, even if the math clearly says otherwise! Anyway, it’s a cool story. Most of them are supposedly still doing a few shifts a week, keeping as normal as possible, and trying to keep the big win a secret.
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It's Mr Money Mustache himself that nails why we should never play the lottery if we want to become rich:
https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/09/20/wealth-advice-that-should-be-obvious/ (https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/09/20/wealth-advice-that-should-be-obvious/)
I couldn't put this better if I tried:
"you are handing over psychological control of your wealth to something out of your control. You are making yourself the victim: “I will become rich if the system decides I will, and otherwise I will remain poor”. It’s the wrong way to think."
Basically wealth creation is as much a state of mind as it is accumulating money.
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When working I played the lottery when the state pot got above about 3 million, purely for the mental distraction of imagining that a big win would be the thing that pushed me out the door (I was playing mental OMY a lot).
After I left the high stress job in April 2019 and moved to a low level job for the summer I only played twice. Since I finally FIRED and am done totally with working life as of September I have not played once. I just don't even think about it now. I think I even have two $3 winners in the drawer I need to redeem before 6 months passes by.
Clearly this was a coping mechanism for me to get through the days imagining the small fantasy of a win. Post-FIRE I already feel like I won the lottery-- the desperation is gone.
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I'm in the camp with those that rarely bought them except as a mental escape from a bad working situation. It was almost a weekly expense towards the tail end of my last gig. I haven't bought one since I started talking with the new company.
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I recommend WINNING money from the lottery. I'm up $1000 this year from finding +EV plays in my state lottery. Up $21,000 from all forms of skill gaming this year, and up $300,000+ lifetime (albeit over 18 years). Been a huge side income for me!
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I have purchased an occasional lottery ticket when jackpots were crazy big, but even then it is a losing proposition mathematically speaking. But then upon further reflection I realized it was even worse than I thought. Most of the expected value in a lottery ticket is packed into the big jackpot, as opposed to the smaller prizes. It would be far better to have more of the expected value on the smaller prizes. Unless it were possible to claim anonymously, I am pretty sure that it would be hard to avoid having one’s life destroyed by a large jackpot. So that is not really a prize. It would be far better to be part of a pool of several hundred people who had a chance of each getting a million or so that having a lower chance of winning a materially larger jackpot.