The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: MishMash on April 03, 2017, 08:01:59 AM
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Long and short of it, I've been in this job for a while, it is soul sucking and dead end, completely without the prospect of promotion or anything other than inflation adjusted raises. The pay is good but I think the company will be gone within a year or two due to bad business decisions (a large one being we have more "management" than actual employees working since a ton of people quit and haven't been replaced).
The work is not hard, it's fairly easy, but my job has morphed into listening to people bitch all day, nothing getting fixed so the bitching to me gets worse as the week goes on, and then I deal with a sales team that has run amok and has ZERO accountability for their failings. Seriously, none of them have met numbers for 2 YEARS and they are bffs with the CEO so no one gets even a slap on the wrist, even when they behave like sexist twat waffles.
Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
DH isn't 100% on board, if he was this would be easier, largely because he's stuck working for 4-7 more years for his pension and he wants some expensive toys, so I'll probably get another job after taking a month or so off. Doing what? No idea.
Cash wise, we'll be fine, DHs salary can pay the bills (even though I feel like a parasite), we have a total net worth of 1.5mil 1.4 of it investable and DH will get a military pension in 4ish years.
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With 1.4m invested, most here would be FIREd, you have a pension coming as well.
FINANCIALLY, you should quit, but that obviously isn't the issue here.
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk
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It sounds like you are ready for it, but need to just get over the mental/emotional hurdle and do it.
What you've described you've dealt with thus far sounds awful. Even if you had to tighten a belt or feel 'poorer' for awhile, would it still not be better then the never-ending dread you currently face?
I empathize as we are chasing pension too and I also fear resentment will build if one of us forced to stick it out to get it while the other gets to 'coast'.
As a compromise, I think we are both fine as long as we are both making an 'effort'. If that effort means one quits and takes an 'easy' and low paying job, thats still plenty fine.
It comes down to your personal dynamic. Good luck and find a far better environment for yourself!
To TheAnonOne;
As far as having enough now, a pension might also bring early health bennies and can reduce overall risk to virtually zero. Its not something to lightly throw away. Marriages can also breed resentment if one person has to slug along for years because they are the pension 'winner'. That persons feelings need to be considered.
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Why not look for another job now, and when you find it, tell them you need a few weeks before you start and give yourself time to recharge.
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It sounds like you are ready for it, but need to just get over the mental/emotional hurdle and do it.
What you've described you've dealt with thus far sounds awful. Even if you had to tighten a belt or feel 'poorer' for awhile, would it still not be better then the never-ending dread you currently face?
I empathize as we are chasing pension too and I also fear resentment will build if one of us forced to stick it out to get it while the other gets to 'coast'.
As a compromise, I think we are both fine as long as we are both making an 'effort'. If that effort means one quits and takes an 'easy' and low paying job, thats still plenty fine.
It comes down to your personal dynamic. Good luck and find a far better environment for yourself!
To TheAnonOne;
As far as having enough now, a pension might also bring early health bennies and can reduce overall risk to virtually zero. Its not something to lightly throw away. Marriages can also breed resentment if one person has to slug along for years because they are the pension 'winner'. That persons feelings need to be considered.
And that's just it, I don't want the resentment to build up since he's the one that will be bringing in the health benefits and inflation adjusted pension. DH wants his toys, I can't blame him, he's earned them, however the cost of those is not currently in the savings since we plan on living in a HCOL area. I want to be able to provide that for him.
On the other side, my boss still isn't in the office....and neither is ANY of senior management. Apparently it's opening day of baseball...because that's more important on the first day after the end of another failed quarter then it would be to come in and rip your failed sales team a new one.
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It sounds like things have been bad for a while. Have you been looking for something else and been unable to find it? Even taking a pay cut, it seems like it would be worth it to get out, but I'm curious about whether you've been unable to find anything at all, or whether you haven't yet looked.
Since your Dh still has to work and you fear resentment and don't seem entirely comfortable with not working, it seems like the compromise might be to quit, but not take that month off. If you can stand it commit to one month of intense job searching, after which you can quit your current position whether you've found something else or not. Showing your partner--and yourself--that you are truly working to find another way to contribute financially might do a lot of good.
Is there any way you can engineer a lay off?
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It sounds like you are ready for it, but need to just get over the mental/emotional hurdle and do it.
What you've described you've dealt with thus far sounds awful. Even if you had to tighten a belt or feel 'poorer' for awhile, would it still not be better then the never-ending dread you currently face?
I empathize as we are chasing pension too and I also fear resentment will build if one of us forced to stick it out to get it while the other gets to 'coast'.
As a compromise, I think we are both fine as long as we are both making an 'effort'. If that effort means one quits and takes an 'easy' and low paying job, thats still plenty fine.
It comes down to your personal dynamic. Good luck and find a far better environment for yourself!
To TheAnonOne;
As far as having enough now, a pension might also bring early health bennies and can reduce overall risk to virtually zero. Its not something to lightly throw away. Marriages can also breed resentment if one person has to slug along for years because they are the pension 'winner'. That persons feelings need to be considered.
And that's just it, I don't want the resentment to build up since he's the one that will be bringing in the health benefits and inflation adjusted pension. DH wants his toys, I can't blame him, he's earned them, however the cost of those is not currently in the savings since we plan on living in a HCOL area. I want to be able to provide that for him.
On the other side, my boss still isn't in the office....and neither is ANY of senior management. Apparently it's opening day of baseball...because that's more important on the first day after the end of another failed quarter then it would be to come in and rip your failed sales team a new one.
I can't speak from personal experience, but there have been a few stories on the forum about one spouse quitting a soul-sucking job. Sometimes the end result has huge benefits for both that come from just being a happier person. A better you is good for both you and your husband in ways that don't always show up on a spreadsheet.
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Have you told your husband how much of a negative impact on your life the job is having on you? I can't imagine that if I was in your financial situation, I would force my spouse to keep to going to such a negative job everyday.
If you're not willing to quit outright, you could look for another job, and/or slack off hardcore at your current job. Just check out mentally, take an "I don't really care" attitude, and see how long you can coast. If you're truly close to retirement, the reputational hit you would possibly take shouldn't matter much. I wouldn't always recommend this, because I think it can be shady to slack on a business full of decent people, but it sounds like your workplace is populated by schmucks.
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I am going to tell you the same thing I told myself when I was in my horrible, horrible job: no job is worth your self-respect and mental health.
That's it. Done. Nothing more to discuss here.
Quit. Breathe. Then go look for another job if you need to for the sake of your relationship (I, too, am working largely due to DH's desire for a more spendy lifestyle, so I get that particular frustration). But for now, for the love of Pete, quit for your own sanity and well-being. Now. Today.
Then go post all the details on the "Epic FU money stories" thread. We will be waiting with bated breath. :-)
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Long and short of it, I've been in this job for a while, it is soul sucking and dead end, completely without the prospect of promotion or anything other than inflation adjusted raises. The pay is good but I think the company will be gone within a year or two due to bad business decisions (a large one being we have more "management" than actual employees working since a ton of people quit and haven't been replaced).
The work is not hard, it's fairly easy, but my job has morphed into listening to people bitch all day, nothing getting fixed so the bitching to me gets worse as the week goes on, and then I deal with a sales team that has run amok and has ZERO accountability for their failings. Seriously, none of them have met numbers for 2 YEARS and they are bffs with the CEO so no one gets even a slap on the wrist, even when they behave like sexist twat waffles.
Wow, do we work for the same company?
At my job, I have "mentally checked out" already (as described by a prior post)... It has reduced my stress quite a bit, and seems to be working out fine for me for over a year now.
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agree with GU.
You need to stop taking this so personally and allowing it to affect your life. This is a job, it's not your life. I know that's a lot easier said than done, but you need to try for sure if you don't quit now. Start looking for new jobs today!
I empathize with the spouse as well. If your goals as a couple are to retire early and you retire now and he has to work 4 more years, it would probably raise a bit of resentment.
goodluck to you. Jobs should not affect your health to this degree.
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It sounds like things have been bad for a while. Have you been looking for something else and been unable to find it? Even taking a pay cut, it seems like it would be worth it to get out, but I'm curious about whether you've been unable to find anything at all, or whether you haven't yet looked.
Since your Dh still has to work and you fear resentment and don't seem entirely comfortable with not working, it seems like the compromise might be to quit, but not take that month off. If you can stand it commit to one month of intense job searching, after which you can quit your current position whether you've found something else or not. Showing your partner--and yourself--that you are truly working to find another way to contribute financially might do a lot of good.
Is there any way you can engineer a lay off?
I think CheapskateWife was the one that told me this a couple of years ago. I feel paralyzed trying to find something else kind of like Stockholm syndrome, and going for interviews is damn near impossible in the current environment. It's a small professional community, I'd essentially be job searching at our customers offices which has and will get back to everyone in the office here within 24 hours and is actually a violation of my employment contract. It states I can't contact customer accounts about job opportunities while employed and for up to 3 months after employment ends. I'm not even sure that's legal, but I know they are vindictive enough to enforce it (folks have been fired with cause and denied unemployment) in the past. I believe it also includes a mandatory year bonus repayment. We didn't get bonuses this past year so that couldn't be enforced.
I think their mentality (based off of some of the stuff I've heard at work about spendypants ways) is that no one could afford to take 3 months off of work, so it's a way to try and force people to stay.
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You may not need to replace 100% of your income.
Get a job OUTSIDE of your field.
Yes, the paycut may be shocking.
If that's the cost to make you happy AND avoid resentment, it sounds like a win. Discuss it with your spouse and see if he's OK with it.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
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Why don't you go on "stress leave" for a couple of months, get paid and figure out your transition.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
This can't be said enough times. His toys aren't more important than your health.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
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One thing to consider, read the FU stories and notice all the people who walked away, only to find a better job with an equal or higher salary. People constantly sell themselves short by staying safe in their current job. You might be surprised at what you find if you go look around for something new.
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If you can't do it anymore, you can't do it anymore.
The idea that looking for a new job will get back to your employer who will wreck vengeance upon you might happen. OTOH, you might just find a new and better job and your employer will be too distracted watching baseball games to even notice.
I would try to stop making excuses for your husband. Sure, he has a tough job. So do you between work and taking care of old people. Maybe it's time for him to learn a little empathy for the person he loves.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
I understand the suck it up buttercup mentality, but don't forget that military veterans have roughly twice the suicide rate of civilians. The Army is trying to train its folks to take a more modern approach to mental health to curb the problem. It's one thing when you're having to suck it up and put your mental health, as well as physical health, on the line to keep the country safe. I'm guessing your job isn't worth the same risks, right?
I don't know how to get your husband to understand that, but there has to be a way.
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It sounds like you are ready for it, but need to just get over the mental/emotional hurdle and do it.
What you've described you've dealt with thus far sounds awful. Even if you had to tighten a belt or feel 'poorer' for awhile, would it still not be better then the never-ending dread you currently face?
I empathize as we are chasing pension too and I also fear resentment will build if one of us forced to stick it out to get it while the other gets to 'coast'.
As a compromise, I think we are both fine as long as we are both making an 'effort'. If that effort means one quits and takes an 'easy' and low paying job, thats still plenty fine.
It comes down to your personal dynamic. Good luck and find a far better environment for yourself!
To TheAnonOne;
As far as having enough now, a pension might also bring early health bennies and can reduce overall risk to virtually zero. Its not something to lightly throw away. Marriages can also breed resentment if one person has to slug along for years because they are the pension 'winner'. That persons feelings need to be considered.
And that's just it, I don't want the resentment to build up since he's the one that will be bringing in the health benefits and inflation adjusted pension. DH wants his toys, I can't blame him, he's earned them, however the cost of those is not currently in the savings since we plan on living in a HCOL area. I want to be able to provide that for him.
On the other side, my boss still isn't in the office....and neither is ANY of senior management. Apparently it's opening day of baseball...because that's more important on the first day after the end of another failed quarter then it would be to come in and rip your failed sales team a new one.
are you in DC? Just wondering, because you mentioned HCOL and I have a good friend who just posted a pic of himself at the Nats game
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
I understand the suck it up buttercup mentality, but don't forget that military veterans have roughly twice the suicide rate of civilians. The Army is trying to train its folks to take a more modern approach to mental health to curb the problem. It's one thing when you're having to suck it up and put your mental health, as well as physical health, on the line to keep the country safe. I'm guessing your job isn't worth the same risks, right?
I don't know how to get your husband to understand that, but there has to be a way.
Yes! I spent time in the military, and my own family has this mentality.
Which is great for getting things done, but for long term mental health - YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE of issues and not just shove them to the wayside. They can eat you alive.
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"sexist twat waffles"
Wow, I'm going to remember that one. Seriously, I'm very sorry for your loss. No job is worth your health, or your happiness either.
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Stop talking yourself out of it and quit! No job is worth your health, you're in a good financial position to give yourself a break and look for a new gig. After staying in the same job for 14 years, I've finally started looking to move. The prospect terrified me, my DH kept telling me I was selling myself short....guess what, I had three interviews within a week. You will find a new job, take a 3 month hiatus so you're within your contract and move on with your life - you don't owe those assholes anything.
Maybe this doesn't apply to you but to me as a woman I have guilt issues when it comes to putting myself first, maybe other women here can chime in. Don't feel guilty for making yourself a priority!
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Speaking as someone who has had panic attacks and depression I can say with confidence that this is not worth it. Not for you or your husband.
I would quit instantly. Take a single month to de-compress and then start looking for a new job. You will probably find something very quickly, the economy is on the rise and things are looking up.
Just inform your husband that you won't take a stress-bullet to the brain for the bankaccount, but that you will get back to the action in a month or two. I suspect he will understand.
So just quit. Like right now, just don't ever go back. Drive in tomorrow morning. Leave laptop, keys, cellphone whatever. Pack up your stuff and go home. Done.
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First of all let me say I am truly sorry to hear your pain.
Your husband should be able to recognize this as a 'triage-type' situation, i.e. like when the flight attendant tells you to put your own oxygen mask on before helping others.
Your job is quite literally killing you. How do you expect to 'provide the toys your husband earned' if you aren't even around any longer? Or possibly worse, what if you become broken to the point where you are a burden like your mother or his father?
You. Need. To. Quit!
Things will look much different once you shed this job baggage. A happier you will go a long way to a happier marriage, and if you asked your husband if he'd like a bunch of shiny new toys or a shiny new YOU....he'd pick the latter.
I sincerely wish you the very best of luck....please do the right thing!!
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So the points that jumped out at me:
If all the potential employers in the area are off limits per their non-compete that usually tends to be unenforceable. They cannot make it impossible for you to find employment. The bad part of this is if they do try to go after you it involves court and attorney fees, but you have some savings to deal with that. Obviously talk it over with an attorney but that is what i have seen in most cases. Unless you go to a competitor and intentionally steal their clients with proprietary information they usually can do very little.
Based on that small community as you mentioned, I would not advise an unprofessional separation, i.e. walk in tomorrow leave your laptop and say goodbye. No new employer is going to be sympathetic to how horrible you tell them the environment is and I am sure they will already be doing plenty to sabotage your chances, so do not give them more ammunition. Burning bridges, even though you are convinced you will never need them, tends to backfire when we least expect it. You'll have to decide if it is bad enough to justify the drastic action. Certainly a panic attack that paralyzes you in your car is pretty severe, so maybe it is, but just tossing this out as a thought to just give it one more think through before doing something this drastic. Interviewing for a new job is hard enough. Knowing your former employer wail just tell them (accurately) that you walked off the job with no notice will just concern a new employer about if you would do that to them and no real way to explain that away as complaining about former employer is also a no-no for making a good impression for a new employer.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
Dude sounds pretty badass, but a true badass doesn't make his wife work at a terrible job so he can drive a sports car. All the guys in "The Right Stuff" for instance had stay-at-home wives.
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Please do give a professional termination notice. If you just walk out and word gets around to other companies you may interview with in the future, it may not bode well for you.
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I agree with the others that you need to quit, but to do it in a professional manner. You know what will cheer you up tonight? Writing your resignation letter!
What would your husband say if you told him today that the stress was just too much for you and the environment was toxic and you were going to put in a two weeks notice tomorrow?
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If you can't do it anymore, you can't do it anymore.
The idea that looking for a new job will get back to your employer who will wreck vengeance upon you might happen. OTOH, you might just find a new and better job and your employer will be too distracted watching baseball games to even notice.
I would try to stop making excuses for your husband. Sure, he has a tough job. So do you between work and taking care of old people. Maybe it's time for him to learn a little empathy for the person he loves.
This. I know a lot of people like your husband being in a similar field but sounds like not quite to his level. He is being a baby by discounting anything but his experience.
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I assure you he's not an asshole, he's just delayed a lot of gratification along the way to give me what I want (FI), now we are kind of at the terminus where the next few years go towards the stuff he wanted. It was an agreement we made many many years ago, and one I personally don't want to renege on.
Delaying gratification in an organization where the general motto is live for now, you could die tomorrow is a very hard thing for him to do sometimes. We live in a tiny townhouse, drive old cars etc. Most of the people he works with have 3-5k sq ft houses, and almost every car in the parking lot is a new pickup truck or a BMW, heck, one dude owns a mini yacht that he spends the weekends on, that's just the culture.
And in regards to him not realizing, he tries to feel empathetic, he really does, his brain's just not wired that way. Empathy is pretty far down on my list of personality traits as well so I can understand it. I'm just having trouble phrasing it in a way he WILL understand. Like for me, my top personality trait is analytical. You want to prove a point to me, show me the numbers, he hates numbers. Him, when he hears these things he immediately jumps to how to make things work. He doesn't quite grasp the fact that I can't just tell someone to do something and they do it, or the fact that my company would have no issue throwing me under the bus (exception is my main boss, who is awesome).
I know, if I can figure out the right way to word it, he'd be like oh..OK, fuck em. But I need to find a way to sum it up in his language that gets straight to the point since we typically have like 5 minutes to talk, and he's been hyper focused, that's how he copes with grief.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
Dude sounds pretty badass, but a true badass doesn't make his wife work at a terrible job so he can drive a sports car. All the guys in "The Right Stuff" for instance had stay-at-home wives.
This. Man, this just gets worse. Hellacious job AND not one but two aging-parent issues to deal with, plus all of the usual home responsibilities because he's deployed so much? FFS. Get OUT of that job -- yes, be professional give notice, but GET OUT. You are asking way too much of any normal human. And as to your DH, well, any reasonable human with the slightest bit of empathy will work his ass off to understand when you say "this is too much."
I think you are making the same mistake I made when my stepdad died: I worked my ass off to take care of my mom and ignored my own feelings -- because she had just lost her partner of 38 years, and I still at least had A dad (even if not the man who raised me), so I rated her needs higher than my own. So I kept answering her calls and fixing her problems and ignoring my own stress and tamping down my feelings, and I kept at it and kept at it, until literally in the middle of the memorial service 3 months later I completely melted down and lost it. And my stepsis (the licensed therapist) sat me down and said "your needs matter too."
Your needs matter too. The fact that your husband has a dangerous and stressful job doesn't mean that the stresses in your own life don't matter. Give yourself permission to treat your own needs as legitimate, and to take reasonable action to meet those needs. And give your husband the chance to show what a stand-up guy he is by supporting your need for a break from this hellacious job on top of everything else.
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I assure you he's not an asshole, he's just delayed a lot of gratification along the way to give me what I want (FI), now we are kind of at the terminus where the next few years go towards the stuff he wanted. It was an agreement we made many many years ago, and one I personally don't want to renege on.
Delaying gratification in an organization where the general motto is live for now, you could die tomorrow is a very hard thing for him to do sometimes. We live in a tiny townhouse, drive old cars etc. Most of the people he works with have 3-5k sq ft houses, and almost every car in the parking lot is a new pickup truck or a BMW, heck, one dude owns a mini yacht that he spends the weekends on, that's just the culture.
And in regards to him not realizing, he tries to feel empathetic, he really does, his brain's just not wired that way. Empathy is pretty far down on my list of personality traits as well so I can understand it. I'm just having trouble phrasing it in a way he WILL understand. Like for me, my top personality trait is analytical. You want to prove a point to me, show me the numbers, he hates numbers. Him, when he hears these things he immediately jumps to how to make things work. He doesn't quite grasp the fact that I can't just tell someone to do something and they do it, or the fact that my company would have no issue throwing me under the bus (exception is my main boss, who is awesome).
I know, if I can figure out the right way to word it, he'd be like oh..OK, fuck em. But I need to find a way to sum it up in his language that gets straight to the point since we typically have like 5 minutes to talk, and he's been hyper focused, that's how he copes with grief.
"Hi honey. Look, I couldn't take the job any more, so I put in my two-week notice today. Because I have a noncompete, I plan to take the next three months to [insert things here, like get the parent issue settled], and then I will call all my contacts and start a serious job hunt. I am sorry that this temporarily delays our plans, and I want nothing more than to talk it through with you when you are home and we have time, but please trust me when I say that I truly could not take it any more."
Or just "honey, I couldn't take it, I quit today."
Seriously. It is not your job to find exactly the perfect words to translate everything into whatever precise version of Mars your husband speaks before you are allowed to think about getting the hell out of a situation that is overwhelming. He is a grown-ass man, he can meet you partway. And if he is half the man you think he is, he will understand that you did not act frivolously, even if he doesn't fully get the "why" of it all.
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I don't know how HC your HCOL town is but w 1.4 plus a military pension AND the opportunity for you to work after a break says to me you are fine financially.
I'll suggest this approach (as someone who got fed up and quit abruptly):
- stay on but use the knowledge that you could quit to make it less stressful or bothersome.
- take long lunches. Walks.
,-,start saying no at work. Sorry my plate is full.
It can be hard for upstanding people l, but if you don't care then don't act like you do.
Last thing. Worst they can do is fire you.
And, I thank your husband for his service.
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Side note. No one here really knows your situation. Or anyone's for the most part. So you'll get advice or comments like
You need marriage counseling ASAP
He's selfish
You're selfish
Demand this or that
Soak it all in (take some objective advice like a leave of absence) and do what you probably felt was right from the get go.
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I assure you he's not an asshole, he's just delayed a lot of gratification along the way to give me what I want (FI), now we are kind of at the terminus where the next few years go towards the stuff he wanted. It was an agreement we made many many years ago, and one I personally don't want to renege on.
Delaying gratification in an organization where the general motto is live for now, you could die tomorrow is a very hard thing for him to do sometimes. We live in a tiny townhouse, drive old cars etc. Most of the people he works with have 3-5k sq ft houses, and almost every car in the parking lot is a new pickup truck or a BMW, heck, one dude owns a mini yacht that he spends the weekends on, that's just the culture.
And in regards to him not realizing, he tries to feel empathetic, he really does, his brain's just not wired that way. Empathy is pretty far down on my list of personality traits as well so I can understand it. I'm just having trouble phrasing it in a way he WILL understand. Like for me, my top personality trait is analytical. You want to prove a point to me, show me the numbers, he hates numbers. Him, when he hears these things he immediately jumps to how to make things work. He doesn't quite grasp the fact that I can't just tell someone to do something and they do it, or the fact that my company would have no issue throwing me under the bus (exception is my main boss, who is awesome).
I know, if I can figure out the right way to word it, he'd be like oh..OK, fuck em. But I need to find a way to sum it up in his language that gets straight to the point since we typically have like 5 minutes to talk, and he's been hyper focused, that's how he copes with grief.
Ok, here are some numbers:
Your blood pressure.
Your heart rate.
The increased mortality figures for high stress and bullshit.
Run, don't walk, to the exit. Try the HR/Stress break as someone else suggested, if nothing else it might be a welcome break to reevaluate things, if not, you should know and have seen as a military spouse, all the bullshit military people put up with in the name of job security. Speaking as someone who left that job security, it was worth it. I know leaving my current job will also be worth it as well. Leaving whatever bullshit you put up with on a daily basis that is driving you crazy is worth it, and you have the time and resources to move forwards afterwards.
My mother quit a high stress/unenjoyable job making ~70k/year in insurance sales to work as a mortgage assistant with no experience starting at ~35k/year. In 2 years she fell upwards to assistant branch manager and will probably be pushing six figures.
Step back from the bullshit.
Breathe.
Breathe again.
Breathe a third time.
Now figure out how to communicate your despair to your husband, make a plan to move forward from where you are, and take the step. You've managed to save an incredibly healthy nest egg, and are obviously driven, you can afford a couple false steps and mistarts. What you can't afford, is further panic attacks, or other medical issues.
Lastly... try not to think about keeping up with the joneses, or delayed gratification with ever bigger and better toys. That goes for your husband, and your own thoughts on what your husband deserves. Will a toy hauler, a super expensive dune buggy, a sport boat, and other bullshit be worth the pain that you go through to afford it? You have 1.4 million dollars of various investments/savings? AND a military pension in 4 years... ~60k/year of basically guaranteed income(~90k + healthcare in 4 years?), and you can only think of what toys to buy with it, or how you might need more? How he doesn't have a BMW to park next to his other soldier's BMW's, or your house isn't as big and nice as theirs?
Your bank account is almost guaranteed to be an order of magnitude, possibly 2, better than theirs. BMW's and McMansions and toys require upkeep and a constant flow of money out the door to keep running. With what you have saved, your life, reasonably lived, won't require any monetary injections. The other specops soldiers are probably like most NFL players, crack addicts to the song of more money.
That's a bottomless pit of materialism.
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You're analytical, and it sounds like he is, too. So what if you tell him that you will commit to working as long as it takes to make up the difference from the lost income (due to time off while unemployed and to a possibly lower salary)? Also, are there any cuts in the budget on your stuff that you can make, especially while unemployed? You'll get your hair cut 50% less often and for cheaper, you'll give up the monthly cleaning lady and wash the cars yourself, whatever.
It you make $100k now (number chosen for easy math) and end up being out of work for 6 months (3 without job searching, and another three to find a job), that's ~$40k less money coming in. (6 months, but after taxes, and presumably slightly lower costs due to not commuting and more time to cook, etc., but run the real numbers for yourself.) Then you find a new job making $75k. (Of course, the new job could pay the same, or more, but run a worst case.) If you'd planned to work another 5 years before you quit, that's a difference of ~$100k (25k/5 years, but after taxes). So in total, you are coming up $140k short, so you'd work an extra 2 years. If he hates numbers, skip to the bottom line. "I estimate this move will cost about $40k in lost income, and I'm willing to work extra time before retiring to make up that, and to make up any potential difference in income if the new job pays less. I know we had an agreement, so I need you to know that I am absolutely going to honor that agreement, which is why I will do this in a way that has the absolute least impact on us financially as possible, while still allowing me to keep my sanity. I will do whatever it takes to make up any short term difference."
Whatever the numbers are, show him that you are willing to rearrange things, and even commit to delaying your FIRE date, in order to make this happen--that you've come up with a plan to allow you to leave this horrendous job without having it affect the family finances.
Also, is there no other industry you can work in? I don't suppose your work offers free legal consultations? Heck, even a JAG might be able to tell you whether the contract is enforceable. At the very least, start looking at anything that is outside the scope of your non-compete. No need to wait 3 months to do that. You should have spousal preference for GS jobs, which isn't great, but it's something.
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Quit. Sigh with relief. Take a month or two off. Start looking for another job once you're ready.
Just do it. In six months you'll be glad you did :)
Just be glad you're not deep in debt and chained to the job.
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If the disconnect between you and your DH on how you say things is what you say it is you need to quit the "right" explanation isn't all that important. By not quitting you are telling him that this isn't as bad as you are making it out to be. Remember words are not the only part of communication, actions are as well. In his world actions count a lot.
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I think in that situation I would resign immediately. Do it professionally, serve the minimum notice, do the standard hand over of work to my colleagues, then leave as soon as possible. No way that a job is worth serious health implications, and with over $1M in the bank you clearly have time to find another job.
The non-compete contract clause may or may not be enforcable. After taking a few weeks off to decompress and give yourself time to evaluate your next job, the three months may only be half that, you might wait it out, find a short term contract to cover the time, or move to a different industry: if you're in an HCOL area those places are normally cities with lots of different employers.
As has been mentioned, if your partner's issue with you quitting would be loss of income / reduction in salary, you can always make up the difference by working for a bit longer in your new role, if necessary.
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OP I am sorry for your repeat pregnancy losses. I also had back to back losses and man, that situation is SO FREAKING ROUGH.
At the time I had my losses, I was also in a toxic work environment. Everyone was severely overworked, and underpaid and the standards were sky high. Seriously, people were getting reprimanded for forgetting to see one email in hundreds they might have received. I had employees crying or breaking down pretty frequently. I had chronic migraines and would cry at night because I just didn't want to go to work the next day. I was getting BP readings in the 130s at my doc appointments despite being healthy and in my mid 20s. On an occasion or two, I called my husband crying on my way to work...saying I didn't know if I could bring myself to get on the train into work. I totally feel you.
After my 2nd loss, I took a few days off...cried a ton...and we made the decision that enough was enough. I cut my hours to part time (employer allowed it rather than lose me) and it was like the world changed over night. The headaches went away, the depression went away, and I successfully conceived my baby girl. At a massive 37 weeks pregnant, my BP peaked at a whopping 118...never got a reading over 120. Of course, it could have all been coincidence, but I don't think so. My reproductive specialist who I was working with also mentioned that she saw a ton of women like me...frazzled, stressed basketcases...and she suspected chronic stress was playing a role in fertility issues even though it hasn't been well studied. She was a huge supporter of me cutting back.
I must admit, I find it concerning that your husband doesn't seem to grasp the gravity of the situation. I was lucky...my husband saw me drowning for a year and the loss of that 2nd baby sealed the deal for him. He was 100% supportive of me getting out of there, even though it slowed us down on some financial goals.
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I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related
My deepest sympathies, its not an easy thing to discuss.
You should quit if you and your husband want children. Stress will cause miscarriages, its not something to be taken lightly.
If you had children would you still be working? Was that part of the plan your husband had was for him to deploy while you work and raise the children?
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+1 for getting out of there ASAP. This has gone way, way too far.
As far as the three month non-compete is concerned, after what you've been through, you're going to need those three months to recover anyway. Try and relax for those three months. Then try and find another job with your contacts. The non-compete is a perfect excuse for an employment gap.
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I assure you he's not an asshole, he's just delayed a lot of gratification along the way to give me what I want (FI), now we are kind of at the terminus where the next few years go towards the stuff he wanted. It was an agreement we made many many years ago, and one I personally don't want to renege on.
Would it really be reneging? You're plan is to keep going just at another place, right? If you have reasonable confidence you could find somewhere else to land I don't think you're compromising your side of the deal.
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your husband values toys (even though it sounds like your scrimping and scraping for a day to enjoy these toys, that may never even come) over his own future flesh and blood and his life partner.
F'd up on so many levels..I feel very sorry for you :(
reminds of a family friend who lived like a homeless person, did retire at 55, but never got the chance to do all the things the $$ saved was to afford him; travel, beach house, etc. Passed away of heart attack at 57.
Like anything, overdoing a good thing doesn't make it a great thing. Got to have a healthy balance.
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Last week I had a full on panic attack in the parking lot, and physically could NOT get out of my car at work, I was literally paralyzed. That's never happened to me before. I spent the weekend pretty much in a massive depression, getting nothing done then came here and read a bunch of other folks were feeling the same kind of mental health issues. I've been to therapy, they pretty much told me to quit the job, and I didn't. I miscarried again earlier this year, the doc said it was probably stress related, so after ALL those signs, the last being said panic attack, I think I am done.
Jesus H, sounds like enough wakeup calls. Your husband not being onboard, does he have your health in mind or understand the severity of the problems? Stress related miscarriage, panic attacks, mental health pros telling you to quit? Fucking quit. Today. Jobs are not more important than your life. You can get another job if there are money issues.
My husband is a member of a highly specialized military unit, where his literal life is on the line routinely (and he is currently deployed, left the day after said miscarriage) so sympathy to stressful situations that are less than that, really aren't his forte, he's more of a suck it up buttercup kind of guy. He can help you take over the world, but empathy is not one of his strong character traits. FI was more my idea after he broke his leg on an halo jump and I realized years ago that there is a LARGE chance of him getting disabled permanently, or worse.
He worries about work, I pretty much do 100% of everything else, to include dealing with his father, and my mother, who are god damn wrecks (his dad due to poor decisions my mom due to a car accident and severe TBI).
There really isn't much he can help with though, his work, training and deployment schedule is insane and erratic, and only getting worse. So something has got to give and the only thing I can change is soul sucking job.
PS, I'm one of two people in the office today, me and a developer...no one else bothered showing up.
Dude sounds pretty badass, but a true badass doesn't make his wife work at a terrible job so he can drive a sports car. All the guys in "The Right Stuff" for instance had stay-at-home wives.
This. Man, this just gets worse. Hellacious job AND not one but two aging-parent issues to deal with, plus all of the usual home responsibilities because he's deployed so much? FFS. Get OUT of that job -- yes, be professional give notice, but GET OUT. You are asking way too much of any normal human. And as to your DH, well, any reasonable human with the slightest bit of empathy will work his ass off to understand when you say "this is too much."
I think you are making the same mistake I made when my stepdad died: I worked my ass off to take care of my mom and ignored my own feelings -- because she had just lost her partner of 38 years, and I still at least had A dad (even if not the man who raised me), so I rated her needs higher than my own. So I kept answering her calls and fixing her problems and ignoring my own stress and tamping down my feelings, and I kept at it and kept at it, until literally in the middle of the memorial service 3 months later I completely melted down and lost it. And my stepsis (the licensed therapist) sat me down and said "your needs matter too."
Your needs matter too. The fact that your husband has a dangerous and stressful job doesn't mean that the stresses in your own life don't matter. Give yourself permission to treat your own needs as legitimate, and to take reasonable action to meet those needs. And give your husband the chance to show what a stand-up guy he is by supporting your need for a break from this hellacious job on top of everything else.
Oh you are exactly right, we lost my dad in the same car accident that gave mom the TBI, and what you described is to a T what I have been doing. I'm even taking care of all the insurance, estate, financial and legal ramifications (mom was at fault). A part of it is taking care of her needs, a bigger part is she is having extreme difficulty remembering stuff, and is having a really hard time learning how to do the things my dad used to take care of as a result of the injury.
So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around). Sheeeee about had a stroke. Made me sit down and white board out a list of all the shit that was wrong and was like "how can I fix this" etc etc etc. I told her I'm not sure you can, these are systemic business decisions that are causing failures that I get stuck dealing with, and I don't want to do it anymore. I also said, and why am I dealing with this, it's not like there is upward potential, or even the potential for a raise, I just keep accumulating work as people quit.
She then went off on a rant about pretty much every. single. thing that has been bothering me, so she's seen it too. Told me one of the other VPs had to take her out last week because she lost her shit in a meeting and yelled "I don't know why this decision was made, I'm trying to determine if you are stupid, or just lazy". Soooo yea, I'd say I'm not the only one that is getting sick and tired of the place. Unfortunately, she has a good chunk of personal cash tied up in it.
She wants me to come back to her with a number and a list of other things that if they fix, I'll stay so she can take it up the chain. Wasn't quite expecting that. I'll probably throw out some stupid number, she'd pay it, the CFO and CEO won't ever in a million years, they have to protect their 250k plus salaries (and our CEO literally does nothing all day, I sit next to his office, he watches a lot of YouTube and sports and goes to about one meeting every 2 months).
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your husband values toys (even though it sounds like your scrimping and scraping for a day to enjoy these toys, that may never even come) over his own future flesh and blood and his life partner.
F'd up on so many levels..I feel very sorry for you :(
reminds of a family friend who lived like a homeless person, did retire at 55, but never got the chance to do all the things the $$ saved was to afford him; travel, beach house, etc. Passed away of heart attack at 57.
Like anything, overdoing a good thing doesn't make it a great thing. Got to have a healthy balance.
I'd like to point out that he has but nothing over "future flesh and blood" He was more upset about the miscarriages then I was, he wants kids more then I do even. We don't scrimp and save and live like a homeless person. We live in a small, but nice townhome, drive 2 nice but older cars, and the toys, well, we live in a townhome, there is NO room for them, and we don't live near the ocean so no point in getting a boat to stare at it in the driveway.
Travel, we do on occasion, trying to plan ANYTHING with his schedule is like trying to stuff an air mattress back into the teeeny tiny bag it came in, just about impossible, we'd like more balance of fun, but right now with his job and where it is, it's simply not possible.
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So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore
Badass!!! Good work! That must have been incredibly difficult, but I am proud of you, even though I don't know you. I (the primary breadwinner of the family) quit my job last year, and have had many moments since then that have confirmed it was the right choice. I expect you will have similar experiences.
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So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around). Sheeeee about had a stroke. Made me sit down and white board out a list of all the shit that was wrong and was like "how can I fix this" etc etc etc. I told her I'm not sure you can, these are systemic business decisions that are causing failures that I get stuck dealing with, and I don't want to do it anymore. I also said, and why am I dealing with this, it's not like there is upward potential, or even the potential for a raise, I just keep accumulating work as people quit.
She then went off on a rant about pretty much every. single. thing that has been bothering me, so she's seen it too. Told me one of the other VPs had to take her out last week because she lost her shit in a meeting and yelled "I don't know why this decision was made, I'm trying to determine if you are stupid, or just lazy". Soooo yea, I'd say I'm not the only one that is getting sick and tired of the place. Unfortunately, she has a good chunk of personal cash tied up in it.
She wants me to come back to her with a number and a list of other things that if they fix, I'll stay so she can take it up the chain. Wasn't quite expecting that. I'll probably throw out some stupid number, she'd pay it, the CFO and CEO won't ever in a million years, they have to protect their 250k plus salaries (and our CEO literally does nothing all day, I sit next to his office, he watches a lot of YouTube and sports and goes to about one meeting every 2 months).
BAM! Badass.
Let us know how it works out.
If it pays well enough to make it worth your while, stay on the sinking ship. Sounds like you care about it. Don't. It's a business, not a life. Bad businesses are supposed to die. But you can be well-employed, well paid while it dies.
Good luck!!
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Your needs matter too. The fact that your husband has a dangerous and stressful job doesn't mean that the stresses in your own life don't matter.
Repeat this to yourself. Of course you love your husband and value his work, but you can't value and support them at the expense of your sanity.
I am also in a toxic work environment, not as bad as yours, but I can see things going down hill. I have an interview Thursday, and if all goes well, a better work environment. Trust me, you will find something better.
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Holy moly good for you!
Unfortunately, more money won't fix the problem although it may ease the pain...temporarily. Remember, even if you ask for more money and get it, the novelty of that will wear off pretty quickly and you will still be in toxic wasteland. Sounds like your boss is desperate to keep you....I'd recommend focusing on things that will reduce your stress and remove you as much as reasonably possible from the harm. Part time might be an option to push for. I was ready to walk when I asked for part time but they needed me, and so they snapped up my recommended new schedule. Be prepared though, part time can also cause more stress (since you aren't around as much and it can be really hard for teams to adjust to that) so you have to be really good about setting boundaries and sticking to them if you go this route. If they balk, you tell them "well...the issue here isn't money, it's the environment/workload/etc. And I think to stay here, I need to really adjust my lifestyle and working hours to accommodate for that. I am willing to stay on part time, and work on X, Y, Z for you."
What about a pay increase (hourly) and dropping to 50% time...say only 2-3 days per week in the office? ;)
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So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore
Badass!!! Good work! That must have been incredibly difficult, but I am proud of you, even though I don't know you. I (the primary breadwinner of the family) quit my job last year, and have had many moments since then that have confirmed it was the right choice. I expect you will have similar experiences.
Sadly it wasn't that hard, I got my hands on the software release that's going out in 2 days, found a bunch of errors (including grammatical in the installer, licensing issues, and a couple of crashes), and was told too bad, so sad, it's not getting fixed. So, I was pretty much just enraged.
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Great job!
Just remember, more money won't fix these issues that are causing your health and well being issues. Make sure you really dive in to what it would take for you to stay AND BE HAPPY. If that doesn't exist, then tell her that and discuss when your final day will be!
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Oh you are exactly right, we lost my dad in the same car accident that gave mom the TBI, and what you described is to a T what I have been doing. I'm even taking care of all the insurance, estate, financial and legal ramifications (mom was at fault). A part of it is taking care of her needs, a bigger part is she is having extreme difficulty remembering stuff, and is having a really hard time learning how to do the things my dad used to take care of as a result of the injury.
So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around).
Oh, FFS, I am so sorry about the loss of your dad on top of everything else. I am truly amazed at all that you have been handling -- each post of yours just adds more to the list! I've been through the bad job and the M/C and the loss of a parent, but not at the same time; those were, without a doubt, the hardest individual events I have ever had to deal with, and I really cannot even imagine trying to get through them all together (much less without my DH there).
Really big, huge congratulations on your conversation with your boss! I'm so glad she validated what you have been experiencing -- even if she can't fix it, I'm sure it feels good to know it's not just you. My own further advice (since you didn't ask :-)) would be not to feel like you have to meet her partway or accept some better offer if they make one. Because it's honestly not about the money at this point. OTOH, are there other job changes that might improve the situation? Are there people you'd like to not have to deal with, specific responsibilities that bring the most stress/annoyance, or other ways to change the job to make the work environment less stressful? Or might they be willing to accept a part-time arrangement (assuming that would give you enough headspace to deal with everything else)?
Again, I would pretty much advise you to walk away entirely, even if they tripled your salary and offered to provide a personal masseuse every Friday -- the things you are dealing with are individually huge and collectively overwhelming, and I think you just need some space and some quiet in your head and some time where you aren't dealing with everyone else's shit so you can deal with your own. But I wanted to throw out those ideas since you seem a little hesitant. The only question that matters here is what do you need and what are you comfortable with.
In any event, please please work in some time for your own counseling. You are dealing with major shit here -- more than many deal with in a lifetime, and you're trying to manage it all at once and all on your own. Please take some of that free time away from the soul-sucking job to talk to someone just for you.
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Oh you are exactly right, we lost my dad in the same car accident that gave mom the TBI, and what you described is to a T what I have been doing. I'm even taking care of all the insurance, estate, financial and legal ramifications (mom was at fault). A part of it is taking care of her needs, a bigger part is she is having extreme difficulty remembering stuff, and is having a really hard time learning how to do the things my dad used to take care of as a result of the injury.
So Update: Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around).
Oh, FFS, I am so sorry about the loss of your dad on top of everything else. I am truly amazed at all that you have been handling -- each post of yours just adds more to the list! I've been through the bad job and the M/C and the loss of a parent, but not at the same time; those were, without a doubt, the hardest individual events I have ever had to deal with, and I really cannot even imagine trying to get through them all together (much less without my DH there).
Really big, huge congratulations on your conversation with your boss! I'm so glad she validated what you have been experiencing -- even if she can't fix it, I'm sure it feels good to know it's not just you. My own further advice (since you didn't ask :-)) would be not to feel like you have to meet her partway or accept some better offer if they make one. Because it's honestly not about the money at this point. OTOH, are there other job changes that might improve the situation? Are there people you'd like to not have to deal with, specific responsibilities that bring the most stress/annoyance, or other ways to change the job to make the work environment less stressful? Or might they be willing to accept a part-time arrangement (assuming that would give you enough headspace to deal with everything else)?
Again, I would pretty much advise you to walk away entirely, even if they tripled your salary and offered to provide a personal masseuse every Friday -- the things you are dealing with are individually huge and collectively overwhelming, and I think you just need some space and some quiet in your head and some time where you aren't dealing with everyone else's shit so you can deal with your own. But I wanted to throw out those ideas since you seem a little hesitant. The only question that matters here is what do you need and what are you comfortable with.
In any event, please please work in some time for your own counseling. You are dealing with major shit here -- more than many deal with in a lifetime, and you're trying to manage it all at once and all on your own. Please take some of that free time away from the soul-sucking job to talk to someone just for you.
Appreciated, but all that is just the tip of the iceberg of bad shit that has happened in the past 2 years, we called 2015 "the year of doom". I've been called resilient, I personally think stubborn bitch.
Talked to DH
"hey hun I quit'
"OK"
"You're OK with this"
"yea, I've wanted you to quit for like three years"
"WTF, why did you give me shit the other night!"
"I didn't give you shit, I asked you why, asked you your plan, and pointed out the financial trajectory....You know, all the questions you make me answer when we approach a life decision. I just wanted to make sure that YOU were sure it was time to go since when we've discussed it in the past you have gotten pissed at me when I tell you to find something new"
Touche husband, touche.
Just realized I viewed it more as a personal failure, and feared that more than anything else since I've been with this company since it started. Still kind of want to punch him though.
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Congrats, very happy for you and that your husband is onboard.
I hope you update this thread at least monthly with what life brings your way into the future :)
Awesome that you stayed true to your word or this thread would've been a total flop lol
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Appreciated, but all that is just the tip of the iceberg of bad shit that has happened in the past 2 years, we called 2015 "the year of doom". I've been called resilient, I personally think stubborn bitch.
Talked to DH
"hey hun I quit'
"OK"
"You're OK with this"
"yea, I've wanted you to quit for like three years"
"WTF, why did you give me shit the other night!"
"I didn't give you shit, I asked you why, asked you your plan, and pointed out the financial trajectory....You know, all the questions you make me answer when we approach a life decision. I just wanted to make sure that YOU were sure it was time to go since when we've discussed it in the past you have gotten pissed at me when I tell you to find something new"
Touche husband, touche.
Just realized I viewed it more as a personal failure, and feared that more than anything else since I've been with this company since it started. Still kind of want to punch him though.
Yeah, ok, I had a gut feeling that would be the reaction you'd get, because we apparently married the same guy. I have been known to angst for weeks over how to say something *just right*, only to be met with "ok." Maddening. But he came through for you, and that's all that counts in the end.
Anyway, huge congrats, and best wishes. Stubborn bitches rule.
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Congrats!!! I'll have a drink in your honor right away!!!
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Yay, so happy for you and happy that your husband is cool.
Honestly, don't give your boss the number and the reasons you would stay --- because you're not staying. Your boss KNOWS the problems. Don't give an exit interview, they aren't changing jack and you know it. You are not staying! You've already made that decision! Woo hoo!
Leave. Are you giving them 2 weeks? I would offer your boss 2 weeks if she can make your environment safe enough where you won't be crapped on. But don't feel bad leaving sooner, in a week or just leaving. Anything is OK. Try to make it polite, if they are difficult, take some personal days, leave early, whatever.
Take 3 months off and start networking with your customers. You can start looking elsewhere first if you like. Enjoy!!! Congratulations!
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Good decision. Panic attacks caused by work are unacceptable all by themselves.
Best wishes for your time off.
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Chiming in with a Badass Badass Badass echo. Hooray!
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So glad you quit, your husband sounds like a rad dude. I hope things improve stress wise .
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Congrats on quitting! Even if you're not at FI (by your defined needs), you have the benefit of FU money. There is nothing more valuable.
I went through something very similar about a year ago in quitting a soul-sucking-miserable job. The hardest thing is walking out of the office.
You will feel like a new person when you're done. My advice is to take a few months off and relax. It is SO worth it. Then you can get into job search mode and figure out next steps.
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So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering.
DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday. He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc. So glad at least he's 100% on board.
Still wavering though. It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high. The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.
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Following this thread with interest since I am in a similar work situation and making plans to try and move to part time soon.
I totally feel you about vacations not being worth it because it is just twice as much work when you get back -
but
if you decide to stay can you use the extra PTO to move to a 4 day workweek for a big chunk of the year? Maybe try it for a month or two and see if it helps. One day off never seems as disruptive as two or three. If it doesn't help you can always say that you gave it your best (and more) and walk away.
*edited to add, I too think you should feel good about walking away, and your DH is on board so yay!- but I know I would also be very tempted by the money so my comment was in the spirit of "if the money sways you . . . "
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Repeat after me: It's not about the money anymore.
I would consider their offer only if you can identify significant changes to the job itself that they can make to remove your biggest stressors. I like LAS' idea of being an independent contractor -- maybe you can negotiate some specific project-based role with defined limits, at some ridiculous hourly pay?
If it's all or nothing, just get the hell out of Dodge. But huge congrats either way: clearly, they need you more than you need them, and that is a 100% awesome place to be.
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So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering.
DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday. He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc. So glad at least he's 100% on board.
Still wavering though. It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high. The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.
50% jump to deal with the same shit isn't worth it imo.
I would however consider the contractor angle a couple of days a week. Instead of taking 50% increase what about working 2-3 days a week at your own pace and earn 100% of the salary you are making now.
If it doesn't work out, who cares, if it does and you are able to separate the stress/anxiety from the job even better and you essentially cut your working hours in half, eliminated the stress, and get paid the same.
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So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering.
DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday. He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc. So glad at least he's 100% on board.
Still wavering though. It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high. The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.
Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant?
You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore. You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.
You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.
If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money. A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.
Unfortunately, I deal with our customers, since I am apparently the only technical person in the company that also has social skills, and they don't only bitch on certain days of the week. I'll toss it out there, at this stage it can't hurt since I'm already mentally checked out.
Totally didn't know about the 3x hourly rate thing though so THANK YOU! It's actually been something I've wondered about in the past.
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OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.
I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit
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OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.
I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit
Look at the flip side. You spoke up, and things are happening. That is good to know (about life, as well as just the job)! And you found out your husband totally supports you. Whatever happens, things are looking up!!
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OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.
I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit
If you haven't already, go read the "Epic FU Money" thread. This, right here, is the power of FU money. You just didn't know you had that power before, and so you failed to deploy it. Now that you know, you can ask them to part the damn Red Sea, and if they fail to comply, that's their problem.
Of course, if this realization also underscores that you've been working for a buch of schmucks (willing to push you to the breaking point before getting off their asses to even *try* to fix basic stuff), and if you then decide that this particular walking clusterfuck is no longer worthy of your talents at any price, well, that's all good, too.
A/k/a this is a win-win -- time to rejoice in your stupendous badassity.
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Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted by a 50% pay increase. I quit a miserable job once where I was underpaid to go work for my families company and they offered to double my salary. If I wouldn't have already committed to my family I may have considered taking it but in hindsight, it would have only taken away part of the sting of all the issues I was dealing with there.
When I put on my recruiter hat (I was a recruiter for 5 years) then I must say-
Companies almost always offer a valuable person more money when they put in notice. Sometimes it's because they genuinely want them to stay and think they're worth it. Mostly though, it's to buy them time to find someone else to fill the position, as they would rather pay you extra for 3 months while they find someone else then leave the position empty. A lot of time it's a trust issue, they now know you're not a "company man" anymore and want to move on. I'm not saying that's the situation there, but it is the situation a lot of the times!
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Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted by a 50% pay increase. I quit a miserable job once where I was underpaid to go work for my families company and they offered to double my salary. If I wouldn't have already committed to my family I may have considered taking it but in hindsight, it would have only taken away part of the sting of all the issues I was dealing with there.
When I put on my recruiter hat (I was a recruiter for 5 years) then I must say-
Companies almost always offer a valuable person more money when they put in notice. Sometimes it's because they genuinely want them to stay and think they're worth it. Mostly though, it's to buy them time to find someone else to fill the position, as they would rather pay you extra for 3 months while they find someone else then leave the position empty. A lot of time it's a trust issue, they now know you're not a "company man" anymore and want to move on. I'm not saying that's the situation there, but it is the situation a lot of the times!
I honestly would not care if this was the case. I'd be taking a decade of knowledge with me, I'm one of three left "in the old guard" here and I am the ONLY one that does my job (and based on the bitching when I take vacation the only one that "wants" to).
Told boss lady I am done, give me a list of what needs to be done prior to me leaving and hell or high water I'll get it done, didn't even approach the contracting angle, told her I'm flexible on an end date so long as it's within 30 days.
BL: Are you serious?
Me: Yup
BL: Is there anything I can do?
Me: I have spent the past 24 hours thinking of that and no. This has NOTHING to do with you, you have literally done everything you can, the problems I have are completely out of your control. You are awesome and you have fixed everything I had an issue with that you could since coming on. I'm just done. Nothing is going to change. It hasn't in 10 years. It's not going to now. The environment here is toxic (something shes said in the past, again awesome boss lady, she's got a similar life path and goals as DH and I, we will be friends after this).
BL: Yea I had a convo with X last week about pretty much that.
Me: I feel like this is a personal failure of mine to not see this to the end. Like it hurts. But I can't do this anymore.
BL: Come into my office
Now from here is a break, some dude I don't know walks into the office, they all know him (senior management all know each other, they have all spent the past years going from company to company together, they came in here about 2 years ago to replace our HORRIBLE management team, and by horrible, I was literally getting physically and verbally sexually harassed on a daily to weekly basis and they did nothing, they were replaced when I lost my shit on a board member I randomly saw in a bar one night). Every one of senior management is now huddled in a conference room and voices are getting loud. There has been talk, for a while, of the CEO and CFO "moving on". I'm wondering if this is it. This would have nothing to do with me if so, it's been "discussed" for about 5 months now. But maybe change is coming?
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So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering.
DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday. He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc. So glad at least he's 100% on board.
Still wavering though. It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high. The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.
Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant?
You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore. You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.
You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.
If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money. A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.
Unfortunately, I deal with our customers, since I am apparently the only technical person in the company that also has social skills, and they don't only bitch on certain days of the week. I'll toss it out there, at this stage it can't hurt since I'm already mentally checked out.
Totally didn't know about the 3x hourly rate thing though so THANK YOU! It's actually been something I've wondered about in the past.
Keep in mind its a rough guide. The market sets the rate. But the market is the negotiation of you vs. your prospective client. If you're happy with 2X or 2.5X then so be it.
But, as an independent contractor you have to take into account that won't get benefits, bonuses, a place to work, equipment to work with, services such as a cell phone or Internet paid for by an employer, PTO/sick leave, you will have down/idle time, you may have marketing expenses if you choose to expand your business, you will be on the hook for self employment tax, you might need certain types of business liability insurance e.g. E&O, you may decide to incorporate and/or hire an accountant, etc. So you have to select a rate that fairly compensates you for your time as employee as well as business owner, and also positions you such that you are only hired for the high-value work that is justified by the rate.
Good luck!
Yea, the taxes and benefits I knew to calculate, didn't think of leave. Frankly, I'd LOVE to do short term contracting work. DH's job provides all of the health insurance etc
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I am running to grab the popcorn.
It is really freeing when you come to the conclusion that it is just not worth the paycheck anymore [ at that place ]. You know that you can find a really good job and take a work break and focus on more personal things for a while..
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I'm just really happy for you. I'd be severely tempted by both the 50% bump and the changes happening. But the 30 days PTO would need to go to 45.
I'm also stoked at your husband's reaction.
It's a win-win really. I mean, even if you decided to stay and nothing changed, you'd bank some extra cash in the meantime. Nobody's making you sign a year long contract to get the extra dough.
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Maybe you could take a wait-and-see approach. Take the 50%, but keep that 2 week notice ready to go at a moment's notice if things don't improve.
As a plus side you might be the one to to have turned the company around and saved it from itself. You're in a position now to be up front about what problems need to be fixed and how to fix them.
Of course if you think you're just going to keep stressing about it, walk.
And after the dust has settled this would be a great one to rehash on the "Epic FU Money" thread.
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Posting to follow.
Take good care of yourself. You may have PTSD after leaving. Be gentle with yourself, and get help if you need it.
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Whatever you choose, you are in good shape. It's really up to you and what you think is best. Don't sacrifice yourself for this company. If they pull their shit together then maybe you want to continue, or then again, you're in tech with social skills -- the world is your oyster, baby!!
Have fun. Here's to your bright future!
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I'm so impressed with you, mostly posting to follow and cheer you on!
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I don't think extra money covers all the issues and resulting stress. And I also agree that if a company has had significant systematic issues for years, then the management has chosen not to act, or decided they don't see the issues as issues, so that's not going to change any time soon. It sounds like you've reached the same conclusion.
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MishMash, good grief. Any one of the stressors you describe would be difficult to manage on its own, and you've got a whole raft of them happening at once.
I'm another in the back-to-back miscarriage club. It sucks sooooooo bad. It's hard physically, emotionally, and mentally, and it's often an invisible tragedy, so there's less support for your grief. I thought nothing good would ever happen in my life again after the second one.
I guess I just want to reiterate to take care of yourself. Do what's best for YOU. I think standing firm on leaving is a good choice, because it really isn't about the money. It's about how you want to live.
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I read this whole thread and I was rooting for you to quit, MishMash. Panic attacks, two stress-related miscarriages... your company is evil. No one should have to put up with that. If I were in your place, I'd have told them where to shove it and quit long ago. Isn't that what this Mustachian stuff is all about? So that we don't have to tolerate shitty jobs?
I admit, a 50% raise and 30 PTO days sounds seriously tempting. But if nothing else changes, I doubt the money would make it worthwhile. With $1.4 mil in the bank already and your husband just a few years from a pension, I would think you're set for life already.
Only you can decide what's best for you. If you want to give them one more chance to improve, you can do that. If you want to walk, you can do that too. You have the power to choose. Isn't that supposed to be the best antidote to stress?
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So spent a good while with BL late yesterday, she feels my frustrations with the basic decisions to get thing done the easy way vs the right way. She wanted to make sure "I was serious" and I told her yea, I'm just fed up, stressed out, and something has to give. She wanted a number to take to management that would make me stay. I told her I'm not sure there was one but a doubling would probably do it.
Lets just say I got "eat shit and die" look from our CFO this morning. So, don't think that's going to happen, don't really care.
In scrum today the decision that finally broke me (made because it was easy, not because it was the best thing for the product, or our customers), was miraculously reversed. They put the release on hold "to evaluate" They are apparently going to implement it the way I suggested made the most sense three months ago....
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I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/)
You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.
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P2F. Your last few days has been quite the ride to read along with. I wish you the best in whatever you decide!
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It sounds like you've got them by the balls -- LOL. Enjoy!
ETA: Really, when you've asserted yourself forcefully, they seem to get it. You said something once about you going off on an exec and they listened. So, if you are enjoying having influence, then exert your influence, and of course you can walk anytime you feel like it.
It sounds like you are super committed to a current project. It is all up to your decisions, try to think of your whole life balance.
Also, would hiring someone under you help you at all? Would that be valuable?
Most of all, it is OK to leave and leaving may be the best answer, but -- they are squirming and I love reading about it! :)
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I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/)
You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.
Yup, all of this. My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client). He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day. All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it. I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on. She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.
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I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/)
You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.
Yup, all of this. My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client). He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day. All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it. I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on. She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.
Wow. That's insane. Are those same folks still there?
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The VP is, and one of the other guys but they are in another office now so I only have to see/deal with them every couple of months now. The rest were all cleared out after my epic bar room melt down, the new management is very professional, even if I don't agree with their business decisions. Thankfully board member realized groping and stalking weren't appropriate things for a person to endure.
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Sounds like things are looking up, congrats!
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I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/)
You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.
Yup, all of this. My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client). He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day. All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it. I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on. She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.
This kind of stuff just disgusts me. I've been a manager in IT for several decades and been pushing for more women in IT for a long time. Sorry you have to work in one of the places this article refers to, but take heart if you do decide to find another position that not all workplaces are built as portrayed in the article and there many of out there trying to do what we can to make it better.
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I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/)
You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.
Sometimes those articles can't be taken as gospel because 'tech' isn't one company, one set of people, etc. You have to look at the people being interviewed as well. Some are building careers based on their experiences and dare I say agendas? I've been around tech a long time and I've left companies when I've seen shitty treatment of people so I know it exists. I've also seen people who live to be offended and definitely spin normal situations into sexism and racism that really didn't exist.
Also, someone's opinion or experience may vary WILDLY between companies or even teams within a company. FI the last company I worked for was super good ol' boy style. All the engineers were male, all the managers and directors male. Women were either sales or project management types. The company was definitely culturally diverse (black owned, people of all races and cultures truly welcome, teams were family style) but definitely gender divided. I can see an female engineer in particular leaving that company because of the culture.
The company I work for now, which BTW was mentioned in the article at one point in a negative way, is incredibly inclusive. I work with some kickass female engineers, one of them is the best low level troubleshooter I've encountered. I interviewed 5 people for some open spots we had on our team. The 3 dudes were not fit to do the work we needed, the two ladies were. We hired one, the other I was so pissed to not get because she has Trump era visa/green card issues. This is normal in this company, small teams like mine compete for the good people, your race or gender doesn't matter, we need f'in talent. In fact it's a bit of an advantage to NOT be one of the sea of male white or indian engineers. Your director and probably his boss WILL know who you are.
Sorry to go OT, I'm very happy to see the situation taking a turn for the better for the OP.
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At this point, I have no idea what I'd do in your shoes, OP!
I'd likely tell them I will give it a try if they increase my salary by 15% and decrease my hours by 20%, so I was getting both more pay and fewer hours. I'd work four 8 hours days, with the understanding that I work those hours and those hours only, and what doesn't get done doesn't get done. I think I'd give that a try. But it seems like you and your DH are both okay with walking, so it may not be worth it. The independent contractor thing also seems like it would be attractive, if they are willing to do it and you aren't dead set on walking away. You could try to negotiate out the non-compete (or say that you'll say on an an IC but that if it doesn't work out then the time you spent as an IC needs to count against the non-compete wait time, so if the NC is 3 months and you do 1.5 months as an IC and can't stand it, you only have to wait another 1.5 months). Given that you presumably have Tricare, health insurance shouldn't be much of a concern, and that's one of the biggest issues with working independently.
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Quit!!! Do it! Were with you!
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All this "give me a number", and heated "arguments" in meeting rooms, strikes me as a crappy car salesperson from hell scenario. So now they can cough up a 50% pay increase; I'd be feeling kinda used, and their desperation is showing. All of this reminds me of the psych studies I read at University, where more pay/some benefit was given to workers, that resulted in higher performance/better perceived work situation, resulting in more productivity/job satisfaction... Only to revert back very shortly to previous levels, or worse. Tossing $$$/broken "it will get better" promises/petty privileges, can't fix a toxic, dysfunctional work place, full of non-leadership. It's a trap. You will now just be a better paid, shinier miserable cog, where they will hold it over you, to justify more work piled on. It's a perverse, lop sided quid pro quo, six sigma whatever the fuck approved tactic, that will destroy you, should you take the bait. I've been there.
$1.4MM and nearly dying from stress?... A GTFOuta there now message just entered your airspace, and all it takes to heed is a refined, as non bridge-burney as possible resignation letter. Hell, I hit the FU eject button at work, before FU eject was cool, with barely two nickles to rub together; but have to say doing the FU eject, with FU $$$ to back it up, is far more satisfying... Think Sting's "wrapped around your finger"... "When you find your servant is your master", and yet you still jump ship with a smile, seeing all of those, hurt/confused/angry/WTH do we do now, alabaster faces. My God, it borders on ecstasy, with a feeling so light you nearly float out of the HR office, full of hope and awaiting bright futures. Fuck em - Let them ride the inevitable death spiral of their own making to impact, w/o you on board.
From my perspective, I see nothing but all gain ahead of you... You have a husband who values you, a shit ton of $$$, are well educated and experienced, sound job market out there, an upcoming pension, and youth. Good lord, you have hit the lottery, and may not see it. I feel excited for you!
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Hi MishMash
I sympathize with your situation. It’s great you’ve taken action against a toxic workplace and think there is one more aspect it’s worth specifically thinking about – your stress.
The stress you feel is extreme, and has even affected your health. When I look at many of the events you describe (bad business decisions being made, lazy colleagues, etc), it seems to me that you are taking on the problems of the whole business and feeling stress because of it – a lot of them are out of your control. (Obviously the physical and sexual harassment do not fall into this category, but thanks to your actions the people who did it are now gone, and you deserve great credit for standing up to them.)
Remember, people can put you under pressure (eg workload) but your reaction is what causes you stress. I believe it is very important that you understand why you react in the way you do, and I think it would be valuable for you to get professional help, or at least talk it through with someone. This is not a criticism – you are clearly an intelligent, committed employee. In fact, perhaps you care too much!
Quitting or not quitting is less important. You’ll be successful either way.
Take care.
PS. Also, never take advice from strangers on the internet. Except me, of course.
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Don't stay. Trust me, if you are valuable enough that they are panicking because you are leaving, then you will be able to get another job, no problem. If you are stressed to the point of misery, it isn't worth it.
If you were truly evil, and you could put up with the pain for another few months, you could take the job with increased pay and immediately use that increased pay to land another job that pays even more, but that might be considered unethical, and would certainly burn some bridges.
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All this "give me a number", and heated "arguments" in meeting rooms, strikes me as a crappy car salesperson from hell scenario. So now they can cough up a 50% pay increase; I'd be feeling kinda used, and their desperation is showing. All of this reminds me of the psych studies I read at University, where more pay/some benefit was given to workers, that resulted in higher performance/better perceived work situation, resulting in more productivity/job satisfaction... Only to revert back very shortly to previous levels, or worse. Tossing $$$/broken "it will get better" promises/petty privileges, can't fix a toxic, dysfunctional work place, full of non-leadership. It's a trap. You will now just be a better paid, shinier miserable cog, where they will hold it over you, to justify more work piled on. It's a perverse, lop sided quid pro quo, six sigma whatever the fuck approved tactic, that will destroy you, should you take the bait. I've been there.
$1.4MM and nearly dying from stress?... A GTFOuta there now message just entered your airspace, and all it takes to heed is a refined, as non bridge-burney as possible resignation letter. Hell, I hit the FU eject button at work, before FU eject was cool, with barely two nickles to rub together; but have to say doing the FU eject, with FU $$$ to back it up, is far more satisfying... Think Sting's "wrapped around your finger"... "When you find your servant is your master", and yet you still jump ship with a smile, seeing all of those, hurt/confused/angry/WTH do we do now, alabaster faces. My God, it borders on ecstasy, with a feeling so light you nearly float out of the HR office, full of hope and awaiting bright futures. Fuck em - Let them ride the inevitable death spiral of their own making to impact, w/o you on board.
From my perspective, I see nothing but all gain ahead of you... You have a husband who values you, a shit ton of $$$, are well educated and experienced, sound job market out there, an upcoming pension, and youth. Good lord, you have hit the lottery, and may not see it. I feel excited for you!
Thanks, I needed to read this this morning. The weekend was pretty bad, it had me second guessing my decision. Got hit with a surprise tax bill (DHs grandfather passed last year, we got the K1 Saturday), DHs dad had a freaking meltdown of epic proportions so I am having to arrange for transportation for him to go see the shrink this morning, he's becoming suicidal I think, and my mom got told she needs spinal surgery on Friday so she's a mess. I haven't been able to talk to DH much, coms have been spotty.
I seriously am singing the praises of Lyft though, I was able to get DHs dad to the market this weekend, so small victory, and I was able to watch the app to make sure he 1. got in the car and 2. that they took him to the store. All from literally across the country.
One of my coworkers that I'm friends with just told me "change is happening", he and my boss apparently went to the chairman on Friday, said he wouldn't be surprised if the CEO and CFO didn't come in today. He was like, I know you've made up your mind but know that there should be events on the horizon.
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You got enough you are dealing with...Change is coming isn't a reason to stay. Ask for a sabbatical to deal with your family. Check back in a month or two months and see if change actually happened. Make the decision then whether to come back or not.
And if this company can't afford for you to take time off, then they either are not creative enough or they haven't had enough foresight to solve their single point of failure problem. The latter is their problem (your manager included), not your problem.
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You're welcome MishMash, and I am so glad to hear of even a small victory... It's nice when you are in a hole to have life hand you a ladder, instead of another shovel. You have an incredibly full, not very appetizing plate, and I admire your courage, and effort. Please try to take as good of care of yourself as you can. I have been at points in my life, where I forgot to eat, and even to drink enough water... Stress is so insidious, especially for the kind hearted, and even the strongest OX can be broken. Please be careful.
I too have had the "surprise, here's your K-1"... Glad, and fortunate like you to be able to cover its implications. I'm also a former combat arms officer, and know how tough service is on families, especially your husbands type (HALO = special OP's). I hope his chain of command is wired tight, and does as much as it can to support you both. I'm willing to bet, they are. Are there any people/programs on post that can help lighten any loads?
Lastly, put me in the camp of talk is cheap, concerning the "change is happening". I'm sensing string-along, and there probably is something on their horizon... An Event Horizon! As RDH stated, if you wish, go on sabbatical - It will allow you to manage outside of work situations with a single focus, let you decompress as much as possible, and gain clarity for your sitution. Plus the clock will be ticking to see if they actually walk-the-walk. Seems a win-win to me. Best of luck; everyone here is pulling for you!
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You're welcome MishMash, and I am so glad to hear of even a small victory... It's nice when you are in a hole to have life hand you a ladder, instead of another shovel. You have an incredibly full, not very appetizing plate, and I admire your courage, and effort. Please try to take as good of care of yourself as you can. I have been at points in my life, where I forgot to eat, and even to drink enough water... Stress is so insidious, especially for the kind hearted, and even the strongest OX can be broken. Please be careful.
I too have had the "surprise, here's your K-1"... Glad, and fortunate like you to be able to cover its implications. I'm also a former combat arms officer, and know how tough service is on families, especially your husbands type (HALO = special OP's). I hope his chain of command is wired tight, and does as much as it can to support you both. I'm willing to bet, they are. Are there any people/programs on post that can help lighten any loads?
Lastly, put me in the camp of talk is cheap, concerning the "change is happening". I'm sensing string-along, and there probably is something on their horizon... An Event Horizon! As RDH stated, if you wish, go on sabbatical - It will allow you to manage outside of work situations with a single focus, let you decompress as much as possible, and gain clarity for your sitution. Plus the clock will be ticking to see if they actually walk-the-walk. Seems a win-win to me. Best of luck; everyone here is pulling for you!
I'm sorry you've got more parent stuff to deal with, MM. It sounds overwhelming in and of itself, without job drama and stress.
This is pretty far off topic and you may already be aware, but if either parent (or both) rely on you for most of their financial support, you may be able to have them declared dependents and then added to your DH's page 2, also qualifying them for Tricare coverage. And depending on the extent of their conditions, you *might* also then qualify for some free monthly respite care services. I've only known people to get respite care for kids, not parents, but I believe the program treats all dependents the same. That could potentially lighten your load a bit, and depending on what their health care situation is like right now, might help everyone's finances a bit.
I'm sorry you are dealing with all this. The suggestion of a sabbatical is a good one if you aren't quite ready to walk. However, if possible negotiate so that the sabbatical is counted toward your 90 day non-compete. If they are desperate to keep you, it might work to say, "look, if theses changes are significant and meaningful, I will consider it, so I'll check back in a month, and it if it looks promising I will give it a try, but I make no promises. But if we do that, I am going to need you to count that time toward the non-compete period, and I'll need that in writing. Otherwise, I have to fully quit now so that clock starts on that. Let me know if that works for you. If not, I understand and in that case, my last day of work will be April 30."
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Just a shout-out to all of the amazing, caring people who are taking the time to pass on such insightful advice. Free hugs for everyone! I love this place!
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Last Night
...if it does and you are able to separate the stress/anxiety from the job even better
This unfortunately doesn't seem to be the case...
agree with GU.
You need to stop taking this so personally and allowing it to affect your life. This is a job, it's not your life. I know that's a lot easier said than done, but you need to try for sure if you don't quit now. Start looking for new jobs today!
You care soooooooooooooooooo much about your work. It is astonishing.
In some ways, I wish I had that. It's motivating and intriguing to see someone just going nonstop, always 'on' their game, putting out fires, fixing things, making deals, inventing the iPhone or whatever.
At the same time though, I see people like that and they are always so hot and bothered about everything. Work impacts their mental-state so much and they are always trying to fix everything, letting things fall on their plate to be done, going on and on about how everyone else around them sucks at their jobs, and meanwhile somehow seeming energized by it.
Like it gives them meaning or something, to be saving the day.
sure, you do need to leave this job, as it seems to be just too much. But between now and the next job, we need to work on how you deal with work 'things': events, work 'fires', other peoples mistakes, human depravity, your own mistakes, lack of leadership, lack of direction.
This might hit super close to home, but I think you are coping.
You may be running to this work stuff in an 'I can save the day/everything depends on me' mentality even more so than you otherwise would, because of your non-work stuff going on with the aging parents, military husband, taxes, etc.
You came here seeking a sounding board that was going to tell you exactly what you wanted to hear. You have gotten it. Unfortunately it's only half helpful. As supportive as everyone here is, and that is great, it is not entirely what you needed to hear. They are right - you need to quit. You are right - you need to quit. You're husband is right - you need to quit. You also need to learn how to not find so much of your satisfaction in your job I think.
Envision a different world where everything doesn't depend on you, you aren't holding everything together, and you are still quite content, happy, loved and valued in this world.
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You may be running to this work stuff in an 'I can save the day/everything depends on me' mentality even more so than you otherwise would, because of your non-work stuff going on with the aging parents, military husband, taxes, etc.
This is a great point to consider as the forces grinding away at your energy, compassion, and patience outside of the workplace are affecting your resiliency to the dysfunctions in the workplace.
Another thing to consider are the dynamics in your workplace that play into deep-rooted emotional triggers within you. After many years of trying to figure out why my workplace had such an emotionally charged effect on me, I ran across the concept of codependency in the workplace. The codependent traits of being a rescuer or overextending oneself for others may be influencing your perception of each situation. I know that it certainly influenced mine and I was able to reduce the stress of others' behavior by becoming aware of how that was affecting me. Here's some more info on it... http://uniquepathways.com/2016/04/13/codependency-in-the-workplace-how-to-spot-it-how-to-treat-it
In any case, perhaps a change in environment/job is enough to reset your energy, as you're no longer entrenched in the dysfunctionally familiar crap going on around you that you have little power to change.
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"change is happening" is the final nail in the coffin in my opinion. If you accept the deal to stay, the deal will be moot if there is a change in leadership. There is too much chaos and juvenile behavior to put up with it. You have a great stash and a supportive husband. If I were you I'd definitely leave.
Stress related diseases are no joke. I'm in a stressful industry and I see people come down with cancer often and wonder if it's related. Life is just too short. I understand what you are dealing with with your parents. I was the executor for my mother's estate. She died at 67 after struggling with cancer for a year. She worked until she died. This is the reason I am pursuing early retirement - I don't want to end up like my mother. I want to get out of industry and into something that I create on my own. To be a producer instead of a consumer. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Stress related diseases are real, definitely. A coworker friend of mine almost bled out on the operating room table from ulcers the day he finished a huge very stressful project. The doctor said he'd never seen anyone with three ulcers.
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"change is happening" is the final nail in the coffin in my opinion. If you accept the deal to stay, the deal will be moot if there is a change in leadership. There is too much chaos and juvenile behavior to put up with it. You have a great stash and a supportive husband. If I were you I'd definitely leave.
Stress related diseases are no joke. I'm in a stressful industry and I see people come down with cancer often and wonder if it's related. Life is just too short. I understand what you are dealing with with your parents. I was the executor for my mother's estate. She died at 67 after struggling with cancer for a year. She worked until she died. This is the reason I am pursuing early retirement - I don't want to end up like my mother. I want to get out of industry and into something that I create on my own. To be a producer instead of a consumer. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Stress related diseases are real, definitely. A coworker friend of mine almost bled out on the operating room table from ulcers the day he finished a huge very stressful project. The doctor said he'd never seen anyone with three ulcers.
Oooooh how appropriate. So guess who landed herself in the ER on Tuesday with one, yup, that would be me.
CEO is now trying to convince me to stay, offered up working from home full time as an option. That would eliminate my hour each way commute (we bought the house here before they set up the office).
To Frugal. With the parents yes, it is on me to "fix things" why? Because there is no one else. It's either, let them wallow and die, or try to help. It's just Dh and I, there is no one else to help.
Also, it's literally my job to fix things at work, that's what I get paid to do. I bridge the gap between development and our customers, amongst other things. It's a very small company, around 25 people, no HR department, it's kind of like the wild west over the years. My boss and I are the only females. People just do what they "think" is best and it hasn't worked out so well. In some cases they do what they "think" is best even though I'm telling them our customers are asking for X, so they build Y, then want me to pitch that Y is actually better than X, even when they are totally not even near related to each other. I've LITERALLY been told before that "what do you know, you're just a chick". It's infuriating to have to fight with your own people to do the job you were hired to do.
I don't think my job is hard, or even vital, I think a well trained monkey could do my job. The reason they are having a heart attack I think is two fold. 1. No one else wants to do my job, they all pretty much hate dealing with other people and 2. I'm the only one in the new office with the new management. I think they fear if I leave, it sends a message to the other office (the one with the asshole sales folks in it), that faith has been lost in the new management strategy and since there is no moral left in the company then it could start an exodus, and we are cut so thin that there is no one to pick up the slack anymore. Everyone is tapped out.
And yes, I do care WAY to much about this place, I was employee number 5, it's a mixture of fear of personal failure to not see it through to the end, and Stockholm syndrome. DH made me watch something called who moved my cheese, it was very fitting.
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Ah, I think I get it now.
Your value as a human being is not just in what you do for others. You don't need to destroy yourself for anyone, not your parents, not your children and certainly not a job.
You have inherent value just as you are. It is okay to prioritize your health and wellbeing. Putting it another way, how are you going to be of help to people if you end up sick all the time?
I urge you to let go of this. I know it is nice to be needed, but not at the sake of your health and sanity.
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What does "see it through to the end" mean, anyway?
Sounds like you should leave. No job should put you in the ER. You can go elsewhere. You are working for people you don't like anyway.
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MishMash - thank you for the additional info on your job, life and health.
As someone in a very similar situation to you (person 5 in a 30 person tech company who cares too much about her job and also has the ulcers to show for it) that also does a similar job to you and does it from home. I just want to say PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THE WORK FROM HOME BAIT!!!
Your job sounds similar to mine and working from home is really tough when your job is juggling and making sure things don't fall through the cracks. Also, when you are out of the office, I find that you end up at the mercy of other's "extra time" - not helpful if your management are already jerks.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a person who cares, sometimes it is just who you are. But this isn't good for you and you have a financial situation that allows you to walk away. Please walk away and take care of yourself.
Also - these posts about ulcers have inspired me to take my first "mental health" day (something I've traditionally been uncomfortable with) - so thanks guys :)
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What does "see it through to the end" mean, anyway?
Sounds like you should leave. No job should put you in the ER. You can go elsewhere. You are working for people you don't like anyway.
The end is either we sell, in which case dollar bills all around due to options. The more likely scenario is we go under.
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MishMash - thank you for the additional info on your job, life and health.
As someone in a very similar situation to you (person 5 in a 30 person tech company who cares too much about her job and also has the ulcers to show for it) that also does a similar job to you and does it from home. I just want to say PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THE WORK FROM HOME BAIT!!!
Your job sounds similar to mine and working from home is really tough when your job is juggling and making sure things don't fall through the cracks. Also, when you are out of the office, I find that you end up at the mercy of other's "extra time" - not helpful if your management are already jerks.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a person who cares, sometimes it is just who you are. But this isn't good for you and you have a financial situation that allows you to walk away. Please walk away and take care of yourself.
Also - these posts about ulcers have inspired me to take my first "mental health" day (something I've traditionally been uncomfortable with) - so thanks guys :)
Oh, I worked from home exclusively for 3 years. Homie don't play that game anymore...it was a damn nightmare. It sounded like a dream, like hey I can go anywhere and do anything while earning a paycheck! No..fuck no...it turned into me being chained to my laptop in my house 95% of the time, nights, weekends etc and people would freak out like I wasn't working if I didn't instantaneously answer an email. Hell. the. fuck. no. The couple of days a week I work remotely now are just fine. Frankly I think they are just trying to find a reason to sublet our office space that's costing them a fortune, I see right through that crap.
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What does "see it through to the end" mean, anyway?
Sounds like you should leave. No job should put you in the ER. You can go elsewhere. You are working for people you don't like anyway.
The end is either we sell, in which case dollar bills all around due to options. The more likely scenario is we go under.
Boy can I relate.
Signed, #21. Currently 100 people.
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Hi Mishmash! I can't believe I missed this thread until today, but I just wanted to tell you how happy I am for you and proud of you standing your ground. And DH supportive to boot? You are making good decisions, that will hopefully keep you out of the damn hospital and back to a healthier happier version of you. Looking forward to hearing about your last week at work, as it is sure to be epic :)
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Awesome thread; following.
I will vote a little different than others, STAY.
They have given you a huge raise, lots of changes appear to be on the way, do you loose anything by staying another 30-60 days?
It could improve as you acquire a ton of money or bigger paycheck same pain in the neck. You can still stay or go later.
Of course, keep things professional. They know you have some positive criticism, keep giving them your honest, professional opinion.
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Oh, I worked from home exclusively for 3 years. Homie don't play that game anymore...it was a damn nightmare. It sounded like a dream, like hey I can go anywhere and do anything while earning a paycheck! No..fuck no...it turned into me being chained to my laptop in my house 95% of the time, nights, weekends etc and people would freak out like I wasn't working if I didn't instantaneously answer an email. Hell. the. fuck. no. The couple of days a week I work remotely now are just fine. Frankly I think they are just trying to find a reason to sublet our office space that's costing them a fortune, I see right through that crap.
YYAAAASSSS to the bolded! That is exactly it. You sound like your head is in a pretty darn good place for everything that you are dealing with. You sound pretty kick-ass and I like you even more for "Homie don't play that" :)
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If you stay, take some long lunches, go for walks, and leave early once in a while, or at least, always on time. Listen to your body.
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/\ sorry forgot to add;
You have FU money, just act like it. No need to sulk around the office. You are a badass who can walk away any time you please, they know that (at least to a degree) now. Things, for you personally, there should change now.
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"change is happening" is the final nail in the coffin in my opinion. If you accept the deal to stay, the deal will be moot if there is a change in leadership. There is too much chaos and juvenile behavior to put up with it. You have a great stash and a supportive husband. If I were you I'd definitely leave.
Stress related diseases are no joke. I'm in a stressful industry and I see people come down with cancer often and wonder if it's related. Life is just too short. I understand what you are dealing with with your parents. I was the executor for my mother's estate. She died at 67 after struggling with cancer for a year. She worked until she died. This is the reason I am pursuing early retirement - I don't want to end up like my mother. I want to get out of industry and into something that I create on my own. To be a producer instead of a consumer. I hope you find what you are looking for.
Stress related diseases are real, definitely. A coworker friend of mine almost bled out on the operating room table from ulcers the day he finished a huge very stressful project. The doctor said he'd never seen anyone with three ulcers.
Oooooh how appropriate. So guess who landed herself in the ER on Tuesday with one, yup, that would be me.
And yes, I do care WAY to much about this place, I was employee number 5, it's a mixture of fear of personal failure to not see it through to the end, and Stockholm syndrome. DH made me watch something called who moved my cheese, it was very fitting.
I believe this is another "wake the f up call" from your body. You can't be everything to everyone.
Let's be honest here -- what is more important?
1) Being able to help your family and actually HAVE a family of your own.
2) Get sucked more into work and having them stand in for the fulfillment factor in your life.
3) Getting a weird sense of accomplishment for having to deal with everything.
I am sure there are a few other things that could be rearranged on the list but ouch.
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This makes me think of the book "Bodywise," which gets a little woowoo at times (and I disagree with some of the advice given, although some of it is very helpful), but like many of the examples in the book, your body has been screaming at you to quit your job. Two miscarriages and a visit to the ER for ulcers? What's next, a heart attack? I certainly hope not. I assume that you have maintained your fertility despite those losses and that you will recover from your ulcer, but I worry that you might end up with something from which you cannot recover. No job is worth that. No job is worth any ONE of the things you've already been through.
I suspect that if you do quit, or once you are finally rid of this job in one way or another, you will look back on it and wonder what you were thinking all that time. Sometimes, even if you know something is bad, it's hard to realize exactly how mindblowingly horrific it is when you're still inside it. No amount of money or vacation time is enough to make up for what this job has already done to you.
https://www.amazon.com/BodyWise-Discovering-Intelligence-Lifelong-Healing-ebook/dp/B01G96MM8Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492204365&sr=8-1&keywords=bodywise
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Sending you lots of hugs:)) You are stretched way too thin and your body is telling you it is time for a break. Mental health really effects physical health and i found this out the hard way about 20 years ago. No job or amount of $ is worth this stress. At one time my neck was literally strangling my arms. My muscles were way too tight all the time from stress. After running tests the neurologist said there is nothing physically wrong with you so you better figure out what is wrong in your life. I knew because it was a bad job and a bad marriage. I left both and was fine.
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Think about it this way, how much is an ulcer worth to you? Leave. I know it feels great to be the One That Everyone Depends on, but there are actual people who love you who need you too, and best of all, they'll love you back. Close your eyes and imagine a world where you have all day to deal with your family issues. A world where you can sleep in until 9 and then have a nap in the afternoon. Imagine how much more energy you'll have to support your family when you're well rested and less ulcerated mentally and physically.
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I once had a panic attack over a very bad job/situation. Several months later I was actually fired from that job, it was the best thing that happened in my career, totally involuntary and unjust. But in reality they did me a favor. I was happier being unemployed for a month (until I found a sane job) than going to work, but until I was fired I just couldn't see it. Sort of like the frog that won't get out of the pot if you turn the temperature up slowly.
The cemeteries are full of indispensable people. Don't rush to be one of them.
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It sounds like you are ready for it, but need to just get over the mental/emotional hurdle and do it.
What you've described you've dealt with thus far sounds awful. Even if you had to tighten a belt or feel 'poorer' for awhile, would it still not be better then the never-ending dread you currently face?
I empathize as we are chasing pension too and I also fear resentment will build if one of us forced to stick it out to get it while the other gets to 'coast'.
As a compromise, I think we are both fine as long as we are both making an 'effort'. If that effort means one quits and takes an 'easy' and low paying job, thats still plenty fine.
It comes down to your personal dynamic. Good luck and find a far better environment for yourself!
To TheAnonOne;
As far as having enough now, a pension might also bring early health bennies and can reduce overall risk to virtually zero. Its not something to lightly throw away. Marriages can also breed resentment if one person has to slug along for years because they are the pension 'winner'. That persons feelings need to be considered.
And that's just it, I don't want the resentment to build up since he's the one that will be bringing in the health benefits and inflation adjusted pension. DH wants his toys, I can't blame him, he's earned them, however the cost of those is not currently in the savings since we plan on living in a HCOL area. I want to be able to provide that for him.
On the other side, my boss still isn't in the office....and neither is ANY of senior management. Apparently it's opening day of baseball...because that's more important on the first day after the end of another failed quarter then it would be to come in and rip your failed sales team a new one.
If you're thinking about FIREing soon, and your job is easy but stresses you out... you could just do a shitty job at work and instead focus on improving yourself mentally. Maybe the risk of getting fired are not so high, and consequences not so high either.
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I think they are trying to wait me out, I said the 30th as the last day, they want to "meet again" to discuss the options tomorrow.
On the flip side, the deployment curse is in full effect. Aside from the many thousand dollar tax bill I just paid, in the past week the washing machine has died, the lawnmower died, got a notice from the HOA that the house needs to be power washed or face a fine (the side is a wee bit green, front and back are fine since they are in the sun I do not have the intestinal fortitude to climb ladder and power wash the top so I need to hire someone), and the dog has chipped a tooth and needs it extracted. So I guess from a funding the unexpected bills side, at least I still have paycheck to absorb it for now.
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I think they are trying to wait me out, I said the 30th as the last day, they want to "meet again" to discuss the options tomorrow.
On the flip side, the deployment curse is in full effect. Aside from the many thousand dollar tax bill I just paid, in the past week the washing machine has died, the lawnmower died, got a notice from the HOA that the house needs to be power washed or face a fine (the side is a wee bit green, front and back are fine since they are in the sun I do not have the intestinal fortitude to climb ladder and power wash the top so I need to hire someone), and the dog has chipped a tooth and needs it extracted. So I guess from a funding the unexpected bills side, at least I still have paycheck to absorb it for now.
I am so sorry about your unexpected run of bad luck. I wanted to suggest checking out your neighborhood on Nextdoor as I see power washers for hire all the time, and you can ask for a local recommendation for fixing your mower and washer too. I really like it for that (and the crime/neighborhood alerts) but there's also lots of drama and squabbles on my local one (so like Facebook but your it's your neighbors and a bit more handy since you can get local information).
And I do think it would be kind of awesome if they did decide to wait until the 30th to bother to discuss changes... and you called out sick that day and just didn't return at all. Is that wrong? :D
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I like the way you think, FG!
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I think they are trying to wait me out, I said the 30th as the last day, they want to "meet again" to discuss the options tomorrow.
On the flip side, the deployment curse is in full effect. Aside from the many thousand dollar tax bill I just paid, in the past week the washing machine has died, the lawnmower died, got a notice from the HOA that the house needs to be power washed or face a fine (the side is a wee bit green, front and back are fine since they are in the sun I do not have the intestinal fortitude to climb ladder and power wash the top so I need to hire someone), and the dog has chipped a tooth and needs it extracted. So I guess from a funding the unexpected bills side, at least I still have paycheck to absorb it for now.
Man I hate HOAs. There is something in your agreement that states you must keep your house walls free of "green" things? That's ridiculous. Does it not rain where you are?
Yea something about maintaining the outward appearance. Our HOA usually isn't bad, but we just got new "cluster representation" and I think one of the women is on a power trip. It rains, problem is that side is all shade so the siding gets moldy, I did find someone to do it for 100 bucks, guy came this morning and did a really nice job. Trying to work myself up to ripping out the two dead 8 foot bushes in the front of the house and finding something to replace them with, then onto sodding the damn lawn because DH scalped it last year and it didn't stand a chance against the neighbors weed fest, it took me 30 minutes to power through the foot tall weeds this morning with the new electric mower. Couldn't fix the old one, apparently DH left it outside a good chunk of last summer, the entire thing turned to solid rust over the winter.
Thought about hiring someone but the local companies want 300 bucks JUST to remove the shrubs. And that is freaking insane to me.
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So it is official, the 12th is my last day (yay?) I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
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Yay!! I think you'll be very happy with your decision once it's all behind you!
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So it is official, the 12th is my last day (yay?) I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
You'll have time and energy to figure it out now. :D
Congrats BTW! I was hoping this wouldn't be one of those things where it was just a rant and then no action behind it.
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Congrats! So proud of you for pulling the trigger!!
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Congratulations. I would suggest that you now take a month to decompress and just think things over. It's time well spent.
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Congratulations. I would suggest that you now take a month to decompress and just think things over. It's time well spent.
My guess is that it's going to take a lot more than 1 month. Most of the blogs and articles I've read seem to suggest that it takes about 6 months to recover, and I based on this thread I think MishMash might have more to recover from than most.
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I've been having a stroke daily since last Friday when I set my final day for sure. I came in today, got reamed for not being available to do a meeting this Friday by a member of shitty sales team (I'll be in Omaha) and was like, yup, this is why I am quitting....then overheard news that they may be cutting the company to 8 people (essentially over 50% of the people here) over the summer (waiting on a couple of big renewal deals to come in before they do it). I would not have been one of the ones cut was what I was told, and yea...reaffirmation of "there is no way in freaking hell I would want that work load"
Now, a moral dilemma I am having. One of the people probably being cut is actually someone I really like personally, they are in the other office but he is someone that has stuck up for me in the worst of times, meaning he was the only one that ever stood up to shitty sales team when they were sexually harassing and groping me, and he's got two kids, one of which is brand new as of last week. In my eyes, he is the only real man in this company. Do I warn him of this possibility or no? History would say if I did it would get around to that entire office, and there is a risk of shitty sales team sabotaging said deals out of straight up vengeance if they found out. I'm leaning towards yes just out of loyalty even if it does mean the potential tanking of pretty much the entire companies revenue stream.
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And PS...can I just say THANK YOU!!! to everyone that has chimed in on this thread, you may not think so, but some of your words have literally changed my life, and changed the way I have been looking at things. When you are in a hole, random outside perspective is actually a good thing I think.
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I think you should definitely tell the guy you care about. Ask him to keep it quiet as to not cause issues, but he should be prepared. Perhaps he can line something else up before he loses his current role.
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I think you should definitely tell the guy you care about. Ask him to keep it quiet as to not cause issues, but he should be prepared. Perhaps he can line something else up before he loses his current role.
That's what I was leaning towards, he's historically not been good with keeping things quiet though. And if that doesn't happen, I don't want to unnecessarily panic him too
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I think you should definitely tell the guy you care about. Ask him to keep it quiet as to not cause issues, but he should be prepared. Perhaps he can line something else up before he loses his current role.
That's what I was leaning towards, he's historically not been good with keeping things quiet though. And if that doesn't happen, I don't want to unnecessarily panic him too
I'm thinking maybe you could wait until the very last moment. Simply tell him on the way out of the door. So when you leave on the 12th you grab him by the shoulders and say "you need to get a new job now, don't ask me how I know. Just do it.".
Of course do it privately. :)
The best of luck to you, and please keep us all updated on your life. I'm happy we could help.
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I've been having a stroke daily since last Friday when I set my final day for sure. I came in today, got reamed for not being available to do a meeting this Friday by a member of shitty sales team (I'll be in Omaha) and was like, yup, this is why I am quitting....then overheard news that they may be cutting the company to 8 people (essentially over 50% of the people here) over the summer (waiting on a couple of big renewal deals to come in before they do it). I would not have been one of the ones cut was what I was told, and yea...reaffirmation of "there is no way in freaking hell I would want that work load"
Now, a moral dilemma I am having. One of the people probably being cut is actually someone I really like personally, they are in the other office but he is someone that has stuck up for me in the worst of times, meaning he was the only one that ever stood up to shitty sales team when they were sexually harassing and groping me, and he's got two kids, one of which is brand new as of last week. In my eyes, he is the only real man in this company. Do I warn him of this possibility or no? History would say if I did it would get around to that entire office, and there is a risk of shitty sales team sabotaging said deals out of straight up vengeance if they found out. I'm leaning towards yes just out of loyalty even if it does mean the potential tanking of pretty much the entire companies revenue stream.
Honestly it sounds like the company is going to crash sooner or later, am I wrong? If the sales team kneecaps the company, would it really change the trajectory much or hurt anybody else you care for? If not, I'd give him an anonymous heads-up.
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This is a pretty awesome thread, exciting and inspiring in many ways. MM, I hope everything turns around for you mentally and health wise.
Best of luck!
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I think you should definitely tell the guy you care about. Ask him to keep it quiet as to not cause issues, but he should be prepared. Perhaps he can line something else up before he loses his current role.
That's what I was leaning towards, he's historically not been good with keeping things quiet though. And if that doesn't happen, I don't want to unnecessarily panic him too
I'm thinking maybe you could wait until the very last moment. Simply tell him on the way out of the door. So when you leave on the 12th you grab him by the shoulders and say "you need to get a new job now, don't ask me how I know. Just do it.".
Of course do it privately. :)
The best of luck to you, and please keep us all updated on your life. I'm happy we could help.
You don't know anything about laying off half the company for certain, but you should invite him to dinner at your house and tell him your fears. It'll give him a small heads up, and even if nothing else comes of it, he'll have a current resume, etc.
What's the worst that could happen to you if he blabs? you get fired before 10 days from now?!
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I was out Thursday/Friday (at the Berkshire meeting), came in yesterday and NOTHING got done...not for my bosses lack of trying, just no one wanted to step up and actually take ownership. I talked to her and was like, they all know my last day is Friday right? She was like yup, and come Friday I am NOT taking ownership of this, I told CEO that he has to make shitty sales team take it. I was like wow, so they already know all this and STILL didn't do anything? She was like "yup, I have a feeling I may be joining you in unemployment in a couple of months" As my blood pressure rose, it was quite freeing to repeat to myself, not my circus, not my monkeys come Friday.
I've been trying to find some new hiking areas in the DMV to try out and scope out for edible mushrooms (side hobby, love me some chanterelles) whilst unemployed.
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I had a huge reply typed up, because I'm amazed at what we humans put ourselves through in toxic work environments, and the things we convince ourselves of to 'make it work', but I didn't want to center your thread on myself/my bad experiences. In summary, I just wanted to express a huge GOOD FOR YOU! Woohoo!! What a journey to get here, but I think you are going to be better off, so much happier and free to pursue what makes you happy. Best of luck in your future endeavors, MishMash!!
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Congratulations MishMash! I've been following your story and it is such a relief that an end is in sight.
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Good job quitting, I have quit two jobs in my life (one over 6 figures) without another to go to because I was not happy. It's always worked out better and will for you too.
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Are you prepared for the inevitable phone call "Help we need an answer on.....". My suggestion would be to ignore the call or charge $200 an hour with a one hour minimum. My step dad was laid off a few years back and they tried to rope him back in for free consult. His $200 dollar minimum put an end to that quickly. Although he did make a little bit for some urgent needs.
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Are you prepared for the inevitable phone call "Help we need an answer on.....". My suggestion would be to ignore the call or charge $200 an hour with a one hour minimum. My step dad was laid off a few years back and they tried to rope him back in for free consult. His $200 dollar minimum put an end to that quickly. Although he did make a little bit for some urgent needs.
I told them 150 an hour if they needed anything short term or if someone took vacation. Got a lot of calls yesterday from people I've worked a long time with in the other office. Their fears of an exodus are well founded. 4 of them told me they were job searching at the moment and a 5th told me he's working on his pilots license so he can gtfo when it's done and switch fields.
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Are you prepared for the inevitable phone call "Help we need an answer on.....". My suggestion would be to ignore the call or charge $200 an hour with a one hour minimum. My step dad was laid off a few years back and they tried to rope him back in for free consult. His $200 dollar minimum put an end to that quickly. Although he did make a little bit for some urgent needs.
Even better, change your phone number and never look back.
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I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
I hope you're coming to a peace with this. There are so many answers to what you should "do with your life" at this moment and it appears no one on this thread thinks keeping this job is one of them. Your statement "I miscarried again" is one thing that comes to mind. As it means you both need to improve your health and I'm guessing you're thinking of raising a family (which is frankly hard enough to do right and enjoy with one parent working, much less both). And if I'm off base with that I'm sure you could/will come up with dozens of others as soon as you're not trying to just get thru each day (survival mode doesn't exactly allow for ones mind to look beyond this week). It also sounds like your husband could easily be only 4 years behind you into FIRE without giving up much lifestyle-wise, a short window in life. Best of Luck!
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I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
I hope you're coming to a peace with this. There are so many answers to what you should "do with your life" at this moment and it appears no one on this thread thinks keeping this job is one of them. Your statement "I miscarried again" is one thing that comes to mind. As it means you both need to improve your health and I'm guessing you're thinking of raising a family (which is frankly hard enough to do right and enjoy with one parent working, much less both). And if I'm off base with that I'm sure you could/will come up with dozens of others as soon as you're not trying to just get thru each day (survival mode doesn't exactly allow for ones mind to look beyond this week). It also sounds like your husband could easily be only 4 years behind you into FIRE without giving up much lifestyle-wise, a short window in life. Best of Luck!
Nope, still having a stroke about it. I've already been looking at open jobs in the area but I know I need to take some time off and not jump directly into something else. I have a string of doctors appointments and dentist appointments I need to take care of and I probably won't have the flexibility to deal with them if I start something immediately. I haven't been able to bend over forward in about a year my back has been so bad and this past weekend my whole left leg started going numb so I really need to get that taken care of. I've had back issues for eons, but this is the worst it's been in a long while.
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MM, stop sweating the money and take care of yourself for goodness sakes! You got this covered for a little while...so take a break, take a breath, don't jump into anything new for a bit. The right opportunity will present itself, but you might not ever be unencumbered enough to work on YOU. So do it! You are so worth it!
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I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
I hope you're coming to a peace with this. There are so many answers to what you should "do with your life" at this moment and it appears no one on this thread thinks keeping this job is one of them. Your statement "I miscarried again" is one thing that comes to mind. As it means you both need to improve your health and I'm guessing you're thinking of raising a family (which is frankly hard enough to do right and enjoy with one parent working, much less both). And if I'm off base with that I'm sure you could/will come up with dozens of others as soon as you're not trying to just get thru each day (survival mode doesn't exactly allow for ones mind to look beyond this week). It also sounds like your husband could easily be only 4 years behind you into FIRE without giving up much lifestyle-wise, a short window in life. Best of Luck!
Nope, still having a stroke about it. I've already been looking at open jobs in the area but I know I need to take some time off and not jump directly into something else. I have a string of doctors appointments and dentist appointments I need to take care of and I probably won't have the flexibility to deal with them if I start something immediately. I haven't been able to bend over forward in about a year my back has been so bad and this past weekend my whole left leg started going numb so I really need to get that taken care of. I've had back issues for eons, but this is the worst it's been in a long while.
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
- Walt Kelly
;-)
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MishMash,
I stared doing yoga 3x a week about 4 months ago and it has done wonders for my back. I also wouldn't be surprised if the back pain went down as you decompressed from this big stressful change. I've heard poor mental health (e.g. Work stress) can cause back inflammation. And I'm not talking about a phantom pain, I mean your mental health may literally trigger your back to be inflamed. Now you might have some injury or something I don't know, and I'm not a doctor but I figured it might be worth mentioning.
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I am having a mild stroke about not having an income to call my own for the first time in 20 years. Wondering if I made the right call or if I should have just stuck with it. I have ZERO idea what I want to do in life as of this moment.
I hope you're coming to a peace with this. There are so many answers to what you should "do with your life" at this moment and it appears no one on this thread thinks keeping this job is one of them. Your statement "I miscarried again" is one thing that comes to mind. As it means you both need to improve your health and I'm guessing you're thinking of raising a family (which is frankly hard enough to do right and enjoy with one parent working, much less both). And if I'm off base with that I'm sure you could/will come up with dozens of others as soon as you're not trying to just get thru each day (survival mode doesn't exactly allow for ones mind to look beyond this week). It also sounds like your husband could easily be only 4 years behind you into FIRE without giving up much lifestyle-wise, a short window in life. Best of Luck!
Nope, still having a stroke about it. I've already been looking at open jobs in the area but I know I need to take some time off and not jump directly into something else. I have a string of doctors appointments and dentist appointments I need to take care of and I probably won't have the flexibility to deal with them if I start something immediately. I haven't been able to bend over forward in about a year my back has been so bad and this past weekend my whole left leg started going numb so I really need to get that taken care of. I've had back issues for eons, but this is the worst it's been in a long while.
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
- Walt Kelly
;-)
Yea it's totally me. I hate relying on other people for anything financially, I've pretty much been taking care of myself since I was 14 (grew up poor, once I had a job my expenses were mine although rent didn't start until I was 17) and the idea that DH will be supporting our household financially is a REALLY tough pill for me to swallow. Totally 100% in my head, fully aware of that fact. You don't realize how much growing up poor affects you until you are in a situation like this let me tell you lol.
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I suspect many if not most of this community did not grow up with anything resembling a silver spoon.
But your view resonates with me. I also tend to be dependent on no one. If my SO and I split, we would both still do just fine financially on our own. In the end though, it may mean we both will have worked too long or too hard or saved too much. Our 'independence' undoubtedly has a pretty significant price tag attached.
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You don't realize how much growing up poor affects you until you are in a situation like this let me tell you lol.
Last week, DH mocked me mercilessly because I refused to buy the $3.99 name-brand gum from Amazon after they raised the price, even though it was demonstrably better than the $2.99 generic gum from Aldi's. We make mid-six-figures. :-)
Tl;dr: Preach.
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You are constrained by the 90 non-compete, yes? Perhaps in this case, that is a wonderful thing. You realistically must wait about 60 days before even applying to most jobs. In a way, it has been taken out of your hands. You *MUST* take time off between jobs.
If you do get offered and take any of those $150 hours, make sure they don't extend your non-compete time in any way.
Also, remind yourself that in taking care of these health problems before they get even worse, you are *saving* money. How much more would that dentist appointment cost you if you pit it off another 2 years? Probably a lot. So while you may not be bringing in an income, you are still contributing to moving forward the finances in a meaningful way. Likewise, any money you save by perhaps cooking more or walking to errands now that you have time, or anything like that, is forward progress toward FIRE. A paycheck is not the only way to contribute to your family's finances.
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You are constrained by the 90 non-compete, yes? Perhaps in this case, that is a wonderful thing. You realistically must wait about 60 days before even applying to most jobs. In a way, it has been taken out of your hands. You *MUST* take time off between jobs.
If you do get offered and take any of those $150 hours, make sure they don't extend your non-compete time in any way.
Also, remind yourself that in taking care of these health problems before they get even worse, you are *saving* money. How much more would that dentist appointment cost you if you pit it off another 2 years? Probably a lot. So while you may not be bringing in an income, you are still contributing to moving forward the finances in a meaningful way. Likewise, any money you save by perhaps cooking more or walking to errands now that you have time, or anything like that, is forward progress toward FIRE. A paycheck is not the only way to contribute to your family's finances.
Yea I'm under the 90 day, however based on how everyone is acting, including the CEO and the VPs, I'm not sure they would exercise it with me. It's really freakishly odd how nice they are all being, like they genuinely seem upset that I'm leaving (with the exception of shitty sales team, they are LITERALLY going out of their way to give me the cold shoulder and be rude). Probably because they never thought I'd walk after how much shit I've put up with. My boss told me she was pretty sure shitty sales team would tank doing my job on purpose so they had something else to use to blame on their lack of numbers.
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Just checking in to see how things are going. Are you officially gone?
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Gone, gone and GONE! Left on my final day in May, aaaand I am still unemployed. Ended up herniating a disc massively 4 days after my last day at work (to be fair it was probably already borderline, lifting mulch bags did it in), so I am now in PT 3X a week and am getting cortisone shots soon hopefully after an ER visit that I literally had to call an Uber for because I couldn't move, much less drive. Also setting up appointments at the fertility specialist this week, and finally completed all my well put off dentist appointments.
DH came home from deployment not the same way he left so we have been working through that, bought a cheap ass used boat that had a ton of issues but he is SOOOOOO excited about it that I can't really say anything. It's the first thing he's been excited about, and happy about in a long while. I see the bills for it piling up and now, being stress free, am trying to put it into perspective, I know it's a useless toy, but the bills for it are racking up at under .005 of our net worth. And I'm seeing a smile on his face and an excitement that has been missing for a while.
We went fishing with some folks we met years ago up in New England a couple of weeks ago and that was awesome. Still trying to overcome my urge to work, I applied for a few jobs, not ones I expect to get though. Having a real hard time playing housewife and doing all the things that come with that. DH seems to love it though.
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Just read the entire thread, one of the best stories I've gotten to experience on the forums since joining. These are the real stories I think most of us are looking for on here.
MMM win! The whole point of this stuff is to be able to do exactly what you did... If you had a different financial situation, there very likely would have been less options. The decision to leave could have been almost impossible without another job already lined up.
Congrats on making the decision, I hope you guys are doing well.
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I've just been reading the whole thread. Really good for you to have finally made the decision to quit. You deserve it. Take it easy for a while. Maybe it helps for you to work with software on a safety critical system. Then at least they won't send out crappy software, like they do in telecom.
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Wow. A lot of mixed news. It sounds like everything is moving more towards good, though. Hopefully you'll have a little luck with kids.
How are things going with the old folks?
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Yay for quitting, boo-hoo about your back. I hope you're on the way back to restored health pronto.
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Hey, big congrats for pulling the plug on the job! Sorry the rest of life isn't smoothing out more quickly, but I'd have to hope the giant pile o' crap is easier to manage without the hellacious work stress on top, right? right?
Good luck! Hope the rest of things smooth out soon.
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Hey, big congrats for pulling the plug on the job! Sorry the rest of life isn't smoothing out more quickly, but I'd have to hope the giant pile o' crap is easier to manage without the hellacious work stress on top, right? right?
Good luck! Hope the rest of things smooth out soon.
Actually outside of the frustration of not being able to move/exercise/bend over/lift everything is fine, I'm probably 50% less stressed even WITH all the pile o crap going on. I have the time now to actually get it fixed, and I can take any appointment at any time of the day instead of having to beg and ask permission and then stress out over sitting there and getting back to work when I said I would.
I saw DHs dad about a month ago at his brothers graduation. He isn't doing good, and looks like crap. All the siblings (minus DH who was still gone) tried to talk some sense into him, he was having none of it so we've all just pretty much given up on it. It's been a couple of years and you can't force someone to take care of themselves, no matter how hard you try unfortunately. He is dead set on blaming his current situation on everyone else BUT himself (from the motel owner, to his divorce lawyer, to the politicians in CA, to our last president). He pretty much epitomizes the "you can lead a horse to water" statement.
Even with the crap going on things are better. I am less stressed, even with the pain. The topic of my old job came up with DH last weekend, I was stressing about not having a job, and not really being able to get one until the back is better. DH started talking about my old job asking some things about the people that are there and how they are doing and what the new products are doing (folks still share the local gossip with me weekly) and even in 10 minutes of talking about it, my chest started getting tight, I got agitated, and generally pissed off. DH looked at me and goes, how did that feel, seems like you are getting pissed? Yea, eye opening. He was like..yea that's how you were, all day...every day. I don't care if you don't have a job, you aren't like a small bomb waiting to go off every day anymore.
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He was like..yea that's how you were, all day...every day. I don't care if you don't have a job, you aren't like a small bomb waiting to go off every day anymore.
Well, THAT's a total win, even if it does set the bar pretty low. :-)
Seriously, glad to hear the mental state is so much improved.
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Even with the crap going on things are better. I am less stressed, even with the pain. The topic of my old job came up with DH last weekend, I was stressing about not having a job, and not really being able to get one until the back is better. DH started talking about my old job asking some things about the people that are there and how they are doing and what the new products are doing (folks still share the local gossip with me weekly) and even in 10 minutes of talking about it, my chest started getting tight, I got agitated, and generally pissed off. DH looked at me and goes, how did that feel, seems like you are getting pissed? Yea, eye opening. He was like..yea that's how you were, all day...every day. I don't care if you don't have a job, you aren't like a small bomb waiting to go off every day anymore.
This is what chaotic jobs do with us that feel responsible. I have gotten similar feedback from my DH, that I am way too stressed all the time, flying around in the house doing three things at the time, stressing out extremely when some water boils over on the stove. All due to being extremely stressed at work all day. This continues during the evening. Luckily for me, now it is summer time and for the first time in half a year my calendar is not packed with meetings all day long. I can do stuff at my own pace now, and even choose my tasks. For 2 precious weeks. My DH even asked me to do something about the stress, may talking to a psychologist. I even went to my GP to ask him to advise me on a psychologist. But very soon after our community gave a free stress management course. I talked my way into that course and followed it for 10 weeks. I have also been reading some books about taking it easy, 10 techniques for mastering stress and am generally very aware of it. But it is still a bit difficult to reduce stress completely while still working in a stressful environment. I just hope I can hold out for 2-3 more years and then I hope to retire permanently. Finding another job would for me mean to get a much longer commute, maybe working longer days and becoming stressed of that. I think I just really need retirement. A smaller house would also help. Our new house is very big, is a lot of work to clean and has quite a few issues with the previous owner, which give mental stress. I do my best to relax at home and manage it partly. I am also trying to teach my DH not to bother me with so many other things (showing me stuff on facebook) when I am concentrating on e.g. cooking something difficult. He is starting to take it into account.
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He was like..yea that's how you were, all day...every day. I don't care if you don't have a job, you aren't like a small bomb waiting to go off every day anymore.
Well, THAT's a total win, even if it does set the bar pretty low. :-)
Seriously, glad to hear the mental state is so much improved.
+1
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"Yea it's totally me. I hate relying on other people for anything financially, I've pretty much been taking care of myself since I was 14 (grew up poor, once I had a job my expenses were mine although rent didn't start until I was 17) and the idea that DH will be supporting our household financially is a REALLY tough pill for me to swallow. Totally 100% in my head, fully aware of that fact. You don't realize how much growing up poor affects you until you are in a situation like this let me tell you lol."
I can't agree more regarding the growing up poor aspect. I grew up dirt poor, supporting myself including paying own rent and food since age 16. For some people it breaks them, but for a few this type of past propels into overachievement, perhaps perfectionism and fear of "going back" even though that is unrealistic. This can lead to big time burnout. I am close to FI, need a change, but my past is messing with me in this regard too.
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Gone, gone and GONE! Left on my final day in May, aaaand I am still unemployed. Ended up herniating a disc massively 4 days after my last day at work (to be fair it was probably already borderline, lifting mulch bags did it in), so I am now in PT 3X a week and am getting cortisone shots soon hopefully after an ER visit that I literally had to call an Uber for because I couldn't move, much less drive. Also setting up appointments at the fertility specialist this week, and finally completed all my well put off dentist appointments.
I have just read your thread holding my breath - will she, won't she leave - and so glad to see you have. (Lots of clapping!!)
Perhaps your herniated disc is the universe's way of saying slow down.
I understand how you feel about not "earning your own income" - I suffer the same problem. But your DH sounds like he is on song with what you are doing so try to relax about it.
Take your time and don't worry about applying for any jobs. You probably need at least six months to detox. Think of this time as getting your health into the best possible position. We're all here for you :)
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MishMash, I just want to say that I am incredibly inspired by how you handled yourself with what you wrote in regards to dealing with extreme harassment at work. In a hostile room, you un-muted the phone to tell the woman that her camera was on. You actually complained to a board member regarding the situation you were going through. Both of those actions aren't easy by a long shot. It's clear to me by how much your company wanted to work with you once you gave notice that they valued you for your integrity.
There are so many people who just deal privately with harassment because the backlash after doing what you did can be so horrible. You spoke up. Go you. I wish you the best with everything and particularly with finding balance in your life. The one other thing I was going to note is that sometimes family stress can be worse than work stress (I sometimes use work as a reprieve from my family stress) so I was worried that might be the case when you left your job. It sounds like that hasn't been the case for you at all. Rock on.
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Gone, gone and GONE! Left on my final day in May, aaaand I am still unemployed. Ended up herniating a disc massively 4 days after my last day at work (to be fair it was probably already borderline, lifting mulch bags did it in), so I am now in PT 3X a week and am getting cortisone shots soon hopefully after an ER visit that I literally had to call an Uber for because I couldn't move, much less drive. Also setting up appointments at the fertility specialist this week, and finally completed all my well put off dentist appointments.
I have just read your thread holding my breath - will she, won't she leave - and so glad to see you have. (Lots of clapping!!)
Perhaps your herniated disc is the universe's way of saying slow down.
I understand how you feel about not "earning your own income" - I suffer the same problem. But your DH sounds like he is on song with what you are doing so try to relax about it.
Take your time and don't worry about applying for any jobs. You probably need at least six months to detox. Think of this time as getting your health into the best possible position. We're all here for you :)
Same here - what a great thread. Huge congrats on leaving! Very inspiring and nice to hear DH ended up being supportive. I hope things continue to get better for you. Back issues suck, mine also seems to flare up with stress (or when I'm dumb and try to lift heavy things).
Ref the work detox stuff, have you read Dr Doom's blog? I found it really great, though I haven't quit yet, he works through a lot of the issues I think I'll have if/when I pull the plug.
Also, if you haven't seen it yet there's a great Baby/Pregnancy thread in the journal's section on here for folks in all stages of the process, including the undecideds like me!
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I read the first few comments and jumped to the reply part, so I apologise if I didn't read something that I should had
Same here, and I'm sure this will echo a lot of other replies, but since the account you've written garners so much consensus on this forum but your husband isn't on board 100%, that sounds to me more like a communication problem than a tough decision. Do you feel like he fully understand the difficulty and still thinks you should get over it, or do you think he underestimates what you are going through due to the lack of empathy? Maybe get him to read this post and the comments?
If its already this hard, I'd say 4-7 more years of it sounds completely unsustainable. Maybe you could pitch the quitting idea to him in a way that would be attractive to him such as working at the dealership/store that sells his "toys" so he can get a discount, finding a job with the best 401k matching, getting the job with most flexible schedule so you can travel around his deployments, or having a position that allows you to do more around the house that he would value when home from deployment? With so much going for you already I wouldn't worry too much about the pay cut especially if there is real physical damage being done by the stress.
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I knew I had to quit when I thought I was having a heart attack at work. ( I later found out after dishing shit load of money in the ER that it was only a panic attack). I waited two weeks and then turn in my resignation. You know when its time! :)
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Got quite a few calls on Friday...apparently my old company laid off about 60% of the staff on Friday so looking like the updated salary they offered wouldn't have been great for the long term ;-) The one that got stuck doing my job when I quit told me it's just INSANE, everyone is now doing the work of 4 people for no extra pay and a whopping 1% raise next year (which they were told they should feel lucky for since some people weren't getting even that). The old CEO and CFO are now out in addition to the lower staff.
In other news, still unemployed, ready to murder my FIL that moved in with us in August (he may be the laziest human being I've ever met), and I'm due for back surgery in a short while so can't really function so well. Our NW has increased 6 figures since I quit due to the market, but I really can't wait until surgery is over to get another job, mainly because I can't stand being around my FIL all day.
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Sure is great working for ME. No idea how people deal with bosses.
On another note, our household has a 36 hour rule.... after 36 hours you LEAVE! No joke. We don't care who you are or what the problem is.
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Sure is great working for ME. No idea how people deal with bosses.
On another note, our household has a 36 hour rule.... after 36 hours you LEAVE! No joke. We don't care who you are or what the problem is.
That was always our standpoint as well. Until DHs dad was near deaths door living in a hotel for 2 years after the divorce from his trophy wife. DH felt guilty, his siblings and ex stepmom kept calling him and saying he "needed to rescue" his dad etc, and he fell for it. I can understand the guilt feeling (even though his dad always has been a POS in my opinion) so this a 1.5 yr limit to get him healthy, and used to living on his own for the first time in his 70 yrs. It's about DH letting himself know he's done everything in his power to help. I don't think it's going to last that long however, DH is getting fed up with his fathers unwillingness to do ANYTHING (to include dealing with his 6 figures in debt, he views bankruptcy as something only poor Democrats do, even though despite earning a 300k salary for decades has exactly jack shit to show for it). He's also insulted me, and women in general, SEVERAL times. DH lost it on him last week when FIL indicated that I wasn't nearly as intelligent as DH, in front of him. Kudos to husband for acknowledging I score higher on IQ tests then he does.
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We both have to agree in our household before anything is changed and both of us would never agree to have someone live with us. I wish you the best but it sounds like your hell might soon be over. I hope so.
Our grandson who is 14 has lived with us since he was 8 but that was before the 36 hour rule was in place and is a part of why we have the rule. He is an angel and is on the A/B honor roll so we really can't complain about him being here. I think we will both be lost without him when he is 18 and moves out even though we are not 'kid people'.
My wife sometimes spends the night with her mother (90 years old) and I actually tell her to bring her mom to our house for the night but she doesn't even want her mom spending the night. lol She thinks others might think that is an open door to them and she knows I will tell them to hit the road. :)
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This whole thread was pretty neat to read. Great job! With 1.4-1.5mil invested and a probable pension coming in a few years, I'd say you should enjoy your time to the greatest extent possible. You have the power to dictate your future, whether it's to stay retired, find a better job, work part-time, etc etc. Congratulations!! :)
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Just chiming in to say I feel your pain. My MIL and her pal Al Z. Heimer are still with us, too. For the foreseeable future. Joy, joy. I hope your surgery goes well.
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This thread inspired my to actually quit my job and starting the 20th of march I will enjoy 6 months of quiet time. I'm not at the point where I can retire permanently but some peace and quiet might be good for me.
Thanks MishMash for inspiring me :)
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Hi Mishmash!
With regards to your FIL and his not-so-casual sexism: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Not acceptable. Its great that your DH stood up for you but damnit, in your own home, he shouldn't have to.
So how do you help your DH get from feeling guilty to "get the hell out, dad." You deserve better than this and need a safe space to recover from your pending surgery.
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This thread inspired my to actually quit my job and starting the 20th of march I will enjoy 6 months of quiet time. I'm not at the point where I can retire permanently but some peace and quiet might be good for me.
Thanks MishMash for inspiring me :)
I'm glad! Even with all the BS this year has brought with FIL, and my back, I'm still MUCH happier than I was when I was working there...hands down.
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Hi Mishmash!
With regards to your FIL and his not-so-casual sexism: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Not acceptable. Its great that your DH stood up for you but damnit, in your own home, he shouldn't have to.
So how do you help your DH get from feeling guilty to "get the hell out, dad." You deserve better than this and need a safe space to recover from your pending surgery.
He's getting there on his own. He's frustrated that his dad pretty much sits and watches TV all day while I struggle to do basic functions, like dishes. We went on a weekend trip, left him with a bunch of healthy leftovers that he just had to microwave, came home and he'd eaten three things of pringles, a case of beer, a bag of chocolate chips, sunflower seeds and 3 frozen pizzas. PS he's a diabetic DH lost his shit.
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Hi Mishmash!
With regards to your FIL and his not-so-casual sexism: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Not acceptable. Its great that your DH stood up for you but damnit, in your own home, he shouldn't have to.
So how do you help your DH get from feeling guilty to "get the hell out, dad." You deserve better than this and need a safe space to recover from your pending surgery.
He's getting there on his own. He's frustrated that his dad pretty much sits and watches TV all day while I struggle to do basic functions, like dishes. We went on a weekend trip, left him with a bunch of healthy leftovers that he just had to microwave, came home and he'd eaten three things of pringles, a case of beer, a bag of chocolate chips, sunflower seeds and 3 frozen pizzas. PS he's a diabetic DH lost his shit.
We had my MIL living with us for a time (also guilt). The fact of the matter was that she was willing to destroy our peace for her own wants. That made the feelings of obligation disappear pretty quickly. So the last tantrum she through, she made the claim that she wanted to go home, and we jumped on it and said "OK! Here's your plane ticket." Felt awful at first to take such a hard line, but she is a semi-competent human being who has managed thusfar. She continues to manage without us.
When we accept responsibility for other people, we think we have the right to decide how they should live, when in reality we shouldn't just not be accepting responsibility for other people (especially other adults)! Your FIL's health (or lack thereof) is not your responsibility. But if he's in your home, you will continue to feel obligated. And the last thing you need in your life is a sexist diabetic FIL under your nose and eating your pringles.
If you told your DH that you were ready for FIL to find his own place, would DH act on it?
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Hi Mishmash!
With regards to your FIL and his not-so-casual sexism: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Not acceptable. Its great that your DH stood up for you but damnit, in your own home, he shouldn't have to.
So how do you help your DH get from feeling guilty to "get the hell out, dad." You deserve better than this and need a safe space to recover from your pending surgery.
He's getting there on his own. He's frustrated that his dad pretty much sits and watches TV all day while I struggle to do basic functions, like dishes. We went on a weekend trip, left him with a bunch of healthy leftovers that he just had to microwave, came home and he'd eaten three things of pringles, a case of beer, a bag of chocolate chips, sunflower seeds and 3 frozen pizzas. PS he's a diabetic DH lost his shit.
We had my MIL living with us for a time (also guilt). The fact of the matter was that she was willing to destroy our peace for her own wants. That made the feelings of obligation disappear pretty quickly. So the last tantrum she through, she made the claim that she wanted to go home, and we jumped on it and said "OK! Here's your plane ticket." Felt awful at first to take such a hard line, but she is a semi-competent human being who has managed thusfar. She continues to manage without us.
When we accept responsibility for other people, we think we have the right to decide how they should live, when in reality we shouldn't just not be accepting responsibility for other people (especially other adults)! Your FIL's health (or lack thereof) is not your responsibility. But if he's in your home, you will continue to feel obligated. And the last thing you need in your life is a sexist diabetic FIL under your nose and eating your pringles.
If you told your DH that you were ready for FIL to find his own place, would DH act on it?
He's getting there rapidly. However, FIL just had an MRI where they found a mass on his spine, which the radiologist said was a cyst, the doctor ordered another MRI for next month because he doesn't think it is, he's worried about cancer. So DH wouldn't move on that until we get those results back. FIL also can't afford to live on his own yet until we can convince him to either bankrupt or settle his 100k in credit card debt. His payments are pretty much his entire social security check, which is all he will really have to live off of.
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FIL also can't afford to live on his own yet until we can convince him to either bankrupt or settle his 100k in credit card debt. His payments are pretty much his entire social security check, which is all he will really have to live off of.
Yes, but how is this YOUR problem?
I know that's super harsh so I've come back to soften the blow...Is it really the responsibility of you and your DH to take care of this man? Especially considering he makes decisions that prove he doesn't value your care?
Hoping you and DH can get to an emotionally safe place where you can either establish some ground rules with this man, or invite him to find another place to crash. Again, you don't deserve to be treated like that in your home.
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FIL also can't afford to live on his own yet until we can convince him to either bankrupt or settle his 100k in credit card debt. His payments are pretty much his entire social security check, which is all he will really have to live off of.
Yes, but how is this YOUR problem?
For better or worse family is always YOUR problem.
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FIL also can't afford to live on his own yet until we can convince him to either bankrupt or settle his 100k in credit card debt. His payments are pretty much his entire social security check, which is all he will really have to live off of.
Yes, but how is this YOUR problem?
For better or worse family is always YOUR problem.
I disagree, unless we're talking about minor children here, or unless you are somehow legally obligated to care for an adult relative and it would be neglect, in the eyes of the law, not to. Otherwise, I don't feel any obligation to people who seem to think I exist only for them to take advantage of me, whether we happen to share some genes or not. I'm not suggesting anyone throw Dad out on the street, but I think it's reasonable to do what you can to help him get on his feet, and if he's resistant to the help, well, too bad for him. Some people actually do better when they realize, "Oh shit, no one's helping me anymore. I'm going to have to do this on my own."
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There are plenty of people who are downright hateful (or borderline evil) in the way they treat their 'family'.
Should someone who physically abuses you be 'your responsibility' just because they are 'family'?!
That would be a pretty damn sick suggestion wouldn't it?
Hopefully, for most, the family dynamic is functional....but there are plenty of messed up situations out there. Treat a person how they DESERVE to be treated. Some deserve very little...
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FIL also can't afford to live on his own yet until we can convince him to either bankrupt or settle his 100k in credit card debt. His payments are pretty much his entire social security check, which is all he will really have to live off of.
Yes, but how is this YOUR problem?
For better or worse family is always YOUR problem.
I disagree, unless we're talking about minor children here, or unless you are somehow legally obligated to care for an adult relative and it would be neglect, in the eyes of the law, not to. Otherwise, I don't feel any obligation to people who seem to think I exist only for them to take advantage of me, whether we happen to share some genes or not. I'm not suggesting anyone throw Dad out on the street, but I think it's reasonable to do what you can to help him get on his feet, and if he's resistant to the help, well, too bad for him. Some people actually do better when they realize, "Oh shit, no one's helping me anymore. I'm going to have to do this on my own."
He was in the "oh shit no ones helping me anymore" stage for the past two years. That's how we ended up here. He LITERALLY failed to adult. Spent more then he was bringing in, lived in a hotel, stopped taking his insulin, and so on. When DH got there, he said the room he lived in was a toxic waste site. Spoiled food and dog shit everywhere. Said it was one of the most disgusting things he's ever seen.
He got yelled at by the PT today for not doing his strengthening exercises, she told me there's not much she can do if he doesn't cooperate. I told him on the way out that I have ZERO sympathy for him because he's not willing to help himself. Also told him if he doesn't start adulting, and doing his exercises, eating better etc then we would be forced to put him in a home so that he has someone looking after him 24-7 forcing him to take his meds and do his exercises. He wasn't happy, I didn't care.
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He got yelled at by the PT today for not doing his strengthening exercises, she told me there's not much she can do if he doesn't cooperate. I told him on the way out that I have ZERO sympathy for him because he's not willing to help himself. Also told him if he doesn't start adulting, and doing his exercises, eating better etc then we would be forced to put him in a home so that he has someone looking after him 24-7 forcing him to take his meds and do his exercises. He wasn't happy, I didn't care.
Your response to this scenario is excellent! Especially the part about you not caring ;-) Hoping this either gets his attention, or emboldens you and DH to make other arrangements for him.
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How has your FIL made it this far?
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How has your FIL made it this far?
Women...seriously. He married DHs mom right out of law school, she took care of everything, and worked. Then, he cheated on her, with his secretary, got a divorce, but was with said side chick the whole time. Then DHs mom died and he got custody, he immediately hired a live in au pair. Broke up with crazy side chick, then met DHs step mom 2 months later, married her 5 months after that. She quit her job as soon as they were married since he earned a high salary, had a couple of kids of their own, and still had the live in au pair. He never had to do anything except go to work, and even then he's been fired from every. job. he's. ever. had. He may last 7 years or 6 months but he's always been fired (largely for being late, or slow). But it's never his fault.
He made the mistake at family Thanksgiving of petting the dog and whilst talking to the dog, goes "see all the women are doing work, while us men sleep and relax, like it should be" I come from a LARGE family of very strong willed women, I didn't even have to say anything and they chewed him a new ass. His response "well I'm not saying it's the way it SHOULD be, but it's the way it is" DH was like you really need to stop being a sexist asshole, now get up and help me with the dishes.
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It happens because you and everyone else that is in this situation LETS IT HAPPEN. I've been in that situation before I put a 36 hour rule in place. I did let it happen a few times and I said OH HELL NO!!! The wife wasn't real happy about the 36 hour rule at first but now she loves it as much as I do and we have had NO problems from anyone. They all know that I don't like company to begin with so if you want to come, don't screw up your 36 hour rule because I can make it a 36 minute rule and they know I will.....
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How has your FIL made it this far?
Women...seriously. He married DHs mom right out of law school, she took care of everything, and worked. Then, he cheated on her, with his secretary, got a divorce, but was with said side chick the whole time. Then DHs mom died and he got custody, he immediately hired a live in au pair. Broke up with crazy side chick, then met DHs step mom 2 months later, married her 5 months after that. She quit her job as soon as they were married since he earned a high salary, had a couple of kids of their own, and still had the live in au pair. He never had to do anything except go to work, and even then he's been fired from every. job. he's. ever. had. He may last 7 years or 6 months but he's always been fired (largely for being late, or slow). But it's never his fault.
He made the mistake at family Thanksgiving of petting the dog and whilst talking to the dog, goes "see all the women are doing work, while us men sleep and relax, like it should be" I come from a LARGE family of very strong willed women, I didn't even have to say anything and they chewed him a new ass. His response "well I'm not saying it's the way it SHOULD be, but it's the way it is" DH was like you really need to stop being a sexist asshole, now get up and help me with the dishes.
I really feel for the women that took care of him despite that attitude. Clearly they were doing a lot to prop him up.
I come from a fairly large family of strong willed women, too, and any man that had dared say something like that with any seriousness would have been made to regret it at the time and manner of the matriarch's choosing.
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Holy crap...that you haven't summarily ejected your FIL from your home is a miracle and he should be kissing the ground you walk on for your patience.
That being said...what's it going to take for DH to see that this man is toxic and needs to be gone?
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DH was like you really need to stop being a sexist asshole, now get up and help me with the dishes.
That is the only possible response in that situation. +1 to your DH.
Clearly your FIL acts that way because he can. He gets away with acting like a schmuck because it's easier for everyone around him to put up with his bullshit than it is to force him to shape up or ship out.
I don't do well with spoiled. My rule with my kids is if you act like a 4-year-old, I'll treat you like a 4-year-old. Which generally translates into "if you are taking everything I do for granted, I've clearly made life too easy for you, so time to step up your game and contribute more. You now get to cook dinner for us once a week."*
In short, sounds to me like FIL needs a chore chart. Perhaps if his current female support** becomes less comfy, he'll find a new one to leech off of.
*Pretty close to verbatim conversation with then-12-yr-old DD. Subsequent squawking, whining, etc. edited for brevity.
**That would be you.
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Holy crap...that you haven't summarily ejected your FIL from your home is a miracle and he should be kissing the ground you walk on for your patience.
That being said...what's it going to take for DH to see that this man is toxic and needs to be gone?
Oh DH knows he's toxic, but still feels somewhat responsible for him. He needs to reach the part where he stops caring that the muck is his father. My grandmother was the same way, it took my mom years before she cut her off. I'm hoping DH comes to grips soon. We are essentially waiting to see if he has a tumor on his back, that comes in a couple of weeks. If it's not cancer, we are planning on having a coming to Jesus with him. Every time we try to get him to do something he complains about his back hurting and that he has to sit.
In the meantime I've stopped doing anything for him. I make breakfast and if he's not downstairs already, he doesn't get any (he usually doesn't leave his room until around noon). Same goes for dinner, foods there but if he's not downstairs he gets none. I've directed him to pick up the dog poop weekly, but have to constantly remind him. I was going to take care of trying to settle his credit card debts for him (so that he can start saving for a place to live) but told him this past weekend since he hasn't taken any initiative in regards to powers of attorneys, or to even update his will to remove his ex wife I won't do it. (PS we already know if there is anything it's not going to us, it's going to the two half brothers who don't speak to him). I've told my husband that the ONLY thing I will do for him is take him to the doctors appointments (he doesn't have a car)
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Speaking as a veteran caregiver for 23 years (starting at age 22!), I suggest that you tell DH that even driving FIL to appointments is not your job. If FIL is cognizant, he gets to Uber or otherwise carry himself. The more he realizes it's his neck on the line that he has to deal with, the better he'll behave. If it leads to a medical event, so be it as his poor choices are NOT YOUR FAULT. Further, you have to get out of that house OR get FIL into an apartment (with day time non-medical help). OR if it is cancer or a medical reason, into Assisted Living at the lowest level of care. You'd be amazed at how quickly FIL shapes up after 30 days in Assisted Living. Also, the other family members get 90 day rotations with FIL if the money matters can't be sorted out. There is no reason a family with multiple siblings should ever move a parent into one house permanently. They will come up with all the sob stories you can image (I heard them all), but that's the way it is. I'm reliving some very painful years with this, but just know that it's inevitable that you'll snap and hurt yourself or DH or both the way this is headed. God's Peace!
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That looks like a good book. Thank you!
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That looks like a good book. Thank you!
Sure, any time!
It's solid gold as far as I'm concerned. And I second SC93 - who, incidentally, I think I saw recommending the same book around here the other day. (Or maybe it was robartsd.) In any event, thank you, and I hope you find it as useful as I have.
Yea that does look pretty good. Have a feeling I am going to need it, I had the spinal surgery and it was worse then they even thought (and I literally had a doc look at my MRI and go OH SHIT). Some of the pain is lessened, but it's still not tolerable, it'll be a few months of PT before we know but there is a chance I may be permanently disabled...
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I would put your FIL on some lists for low income senior housing. Also there is section 8 housing where the government pays your rent and the landlord agrees to take what they pay. The benefit to the landlord is that they know they will get the rent. Another possibility is a group home for seniors. They have staff that looks after people, takes them to appointments, cooks, etc. You need to do something for your own mental health. Once he has to pay rent, etc he will realize he can't make his payments and will have to go bankrupt. Sending you a big hug:))
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That looks like a good book. Thank you!
Sure, any time!
It's solid gold as far as I'm concerned. And I second SC93 - who, incidentally, I think I saw recommending the same book around here the other day. (Or maybe it was robartsd.) In any event, thank you, and I hope you find it as useful as I have.
Yea that does look pretty good. Have a feeling I am going to need it, I had the spinal surgery and it was worse then they even thought (and I literally had a doc look at my MRI and go OH SHIT). Some of the pain is lessened, but it's still not tolerable, it'll be a few months of PT before we know but there is a chance I may be permanently disabled...
I hope things turn out well. That is a bit unnerving (no pun intended). It's good to hear you're making sure to take care of yourself, though.
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It was me the other day but I think others have in the past. Boundaries should be a book that everyone reads; especially those that have a hard time setting them.
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I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Thanks for sharing, MishMash!