Author Topic: I think today may be the day I quit  (Read 31165 times)

acroy

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2017, 11:41:19 AM »
So Update:  Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around).  Sheeeee about had a stroke.  Made me sit down and white board out a list of all the shit that was wrong and was like "how can I fix this" etc etc etc.   I told her I'm not sure you can, these are systemic business decisions that are causing failures that I get stuck dealing with, and I don't want to do it anymore.  I also said, and why am I dealing with this, it's not like there is upward potential, or even the potential for a raise, I just keep accumulating work as people quit.

She then went off on a rant about pretty much every. single. thing that has been bothering me, so she's seen it too.  Told me one of the other VPs had to take her out last week because she lost her shit in a meeting and yelled "I don't know why this decision was made, I'm trying to determine if you are stupid, or just lazy".   Soooo yea, I'd say I'm not the only one that is getting sick and tired of the place.  Unfortunately, she has a good chunk of personal cash tied up in it. 

She wants me to come back to her with a number and a list of other things that if they fix, I'll stay so she can take it up the chain.  Wasn't quite expecting that.  I'll probably throw out some stupid number, she'd pay it, the CFO and CEO won't ever in a million years, they have to protect their 250k plus salaries (and our CEO literally does nothing all day, I sit next to his office, he watches a lot of YouTube and sports and goes to about one meeting every 2 months).

BAM! Badass.
Let us know how it works out.
If it pays well enough to make it worth your while, stay on the sinking ship. Sounds like you care about it. Don't. It's a business, not a life. Bad businesses are supposed to die. But you can be well-employed, well paid while it dies.
Good luck!!
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golden1

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2017, 11:44:25 AM »
Quote
Your needs matter too.  The fact that your husband has a dangerous and stressful job doesn't mean that the stresses in your own life don't matter.

Repeat this to yourself.  Of course you love your husband and value his work, but you can't value and support them at the expense of your sanity.

I am also in a toxic work environment, not as bad as yours, but I can see things going down hill.  I have an interview Thursday, and if all goes well, a better work environment.  Trust me, you will find something better. 

little_brown_dog

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2017, 11:58:29 AM »
Holy moly good for you!

Unfortunately, more money won't fix the problem although it may ease the pain...temporarily. Remember, even if you ask for more money and get it, the novelty of that will wear off pretty quickly and you will still be in toxic wasteland. Sounds like your boss is desperate to keep you....I'd recommend focusing on things that will reduce your stress and remove you as much as reasonably possible from the harm. Part time might be an option to push for. I was ready to walk when I asked for part time but they needed me, and so they snapped up my recommended new schedule. Be prepared though, part time can also cause more stress (since you aren't around as much and it can be really hard for teams to adjust to that) so you have to be really good about setting boundaries and sticking to them if you go this route. If they balk, you tell them "well...the issue here isn't money, it's the environment/workload/etc. And I think to stay here, I need to really adjust my lifestyle and working hours to accommodate for that. I am willing to stay on part time, and work on X, Y, Z for you."

What about a pay increase (hourly) and dropping to 50% time...say only 2-3 days per week in the office? ;)
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 12:02:25 PM by little_brown_dog »

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #53 on: April 04, 2017, 12:22:38 PM »
So Update:  Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore

Badass!!!  Good work!  That must have been incredibly difficult, but I am proud of you, even though I don't know you.  I (the primary breadwinner of the family) quit my job last year, and have had many moments since then that have confirmed it was the right choice.  I expect you will have similar experiences.

Sadly it wasn't that hard, I got my hands on the software release that's going out in 2 days, found a bunch of errors (including grammatical in the installer, licensing issues, and a couple of crashes), and was told too bad, so sad, it's not getting fixed. So, I was pretty much just enraged.

TealBlue

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2017, 12:57:35 PM »
Great job! 

Just remember, more money won't fix these issues that are causing your health and well being issues.  Make sure you really dive in to what it would take for you to stay AND BE HAPPY.  If that doesn't exist, then tell her that and discuss when your final day will be!

Laura33

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2017, 01:18:58 PM »
Oh you are exactly right, we lost my dad in the same car accident that gave mom the TBI, and what you described is to a T what I have been doing.  I'm even taking care of all the insurance, estate, financial and legal ramifications (mom was at fault).  A part of it is taking care of her needs, a bigger part is she is having extreme difficulty remembering stuff, and is having a really hard time learning how to do the things my dad used to take care of as a result of the injury.     

So Update:  Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around). 

Oh, FFS, I am so sorry about the loss of your dad on top of everything else.  I am truly amazed at all that you have been handling -- each post of yours just adds more to the list!  I've been through the bad job and the M/C and the loss of a parent, but not at the same time; those were, without a doubt, the hardest individual events I have ever had to deal with, and I really cannot even imagine trying to get through them all together (much less without my DH there).

Really big, huge congratulations on your conversation with your boss!  I'm so glad she validated what you have been experiencing -- even if she can't fix it, I'm sure it feels good to know it's not just you.  My own further advice (since you didn't ask :-)) would be not to feel like you have to meet her partway or accept some better offer if they make one.  Because it's honestly not about the money at this point.  OTOH, are there other job changes that might improve the situation?  Are there people you'd like to not have to deal with, specific responsibilities that bring the most stress/annoyance, or other ways to change the job to make the work environment less stressful?  Or might they be willing to accept a part-time arrangement (assuming that would give you enough headspace to deal with everything else)? 

Again, I would pretty much advise you to walk away entirely, even if they tripled your salary and offered to provide a personal masseuse every Friday -- the things you are dealing with are individually huge and collectively overwhelming, and I think you just need some space and some quiet in your head and some time where you aren't dealing with everyone else's shit so you can deal with your own.  But I wanted to throw out those ideas since you seem a little hesitant.  The only question that matters here is what do you need and what are you comfortable with. 

In any event, please please work in some time for your own counseling.  You are dealing with major shit here -- more than many deal with in a lifetime, and you're trying to manage it all at once and all on your own.  Please take some of that free time away from the soul-sucking job to talk to someone just for you.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2017, 01:49:20 PM »
Oh you are exactly right, we lost my dad in the same car accident that gave mom the TBI, and what you described is to a T what I have been doing.  I'm even taking care of all the insurance, estate, financial and legal ramifications (mom was at fault).  A part of it is taking care of her needs, a bigger part is she is having extreme difficulty remembering stuff, and is having a really hard time learning how to do the things my dad used to take care of as a result of the injury.     

So Update:  Just told my boss I quit, that I can't take it anymore (and my direct boss is awesome, always has been, she's probably the main reason I've stuck around). 

Oh, FFS, I am so sorry about the loss of your dad on top of everything else.  I am truly amazed at all that you have been handling -- each post of yours just adds more to the list!  I've been through the bad job and the M/C and the loss of a parent, but not at the same time; those were, without a doubt, the hardest individual events I have ever had to deal with, and I really cannot even imagine trying to get through them all together (much less without my DH there).

Really big, huge congratulations on your conversation with your boss!  I'm so glad she validated what you have been experiencing -- even if she can't fix it, I'm sure it feels good to know it's not just you.  My own further advice (since you didn't ask :-)) would be not to feel like you have to meet her partway or accept some better offer if they make one.  Because it's honestly not about the money at this point.  OTOH, are there other job changes that might improve the situation?  Are there people you'd like to not have to deal with, specific responsibilities that bring the most stress/annoyance, or other ways to change the job to make the work environment less stressful?  Or might they be willing to accept a part-time arrangement (assuming that would give you enough headspace to deal with everything else)? 

Again, I would pretty much advise you to walk away entirely, even if they tripled your salary and offered to provide a personal masseuse every Friday -- the things you are dealing with are individually huge and collectively overwhelming, and I think you just need some space and some quiet in your head and some time where you aren't dealing with everyone else's shit so you can deal with your own.  But I wanted to throw out those ideas since you seem a little hesitant.  The only question that matters here is what do you need and what are you comfortable with. 

In any event, please please work in some time for your own counseling.  You are dealing with major shit here -- more than many deal with in a lifetime, and you're trying to manage it all at once and all on your own.  Please take some of that free time away from the soul-sucking job to talk to someone just for you.

Appreciated, but all that is just the tip of the iceberg of bad shit that has happened in the past 2 years, we called 2015 "the year of doom".  I've been called resilient, I personally think stubborn bitch.

Talked to DH
"hey hun I quit'
"OK"
"You're OK with this"
"yea, I've wanted you to quit for like three years"
"WTF, why did you give me shit the other night!"
"I didn't give you shit, I asked you why, asked you your plan, and pointed out the financial trajectory....You know, all the questions you make me answer when we approach a life decision.  I just wanted to make sure that YOU were sure it was time to go since when we've discussed it in the past you have gotten pissed at me when I tell you to find something new"

Touche husband, touche. 
Just realized I viewed it more as a personal failure, and feared that more than anything else since I've been with this company since it started.  Still kind of want to punch him though. 

Last Night

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2017, 01:53:20 PM »
Congrats, very happy for you and that your husband is onboard.

I hope you update this thread at least monthly with what life brings your way into the future :)

Awesome that you stayed true to your word or this thread would've been a total flop lol

Laura33

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2017, 01:57:47 PM »
Appreciated, but all that is just the tip of the iceberg of bad shit that has happened in the past 2 years, we called 2015 "the year of doom".  I've been called resilient, I personally think stubborn bitch.

Talked to DH
"hey hun I quit'
"OK"
"You're OK with this"
"yea, I've wanted you to quit for like three years"
"WTF, why did you give me shit the other night!"
"I didn't give you shit, I asked you why, asked you your plan, and pointed out the financial trajectory....You know, all the questions you make me answer when we approach a life decision.  I just wanted to make sure that YOU were sure it was time to go since when we've discussed it in the past you have gotten pissed at me when I tell you to find something new"

Touche husband, touche. 
Just realized I viewed it more as a personal failure, and feared that more than anything else since I've been with this company since it started.  Still kind of want to punch him though.

Yeah, ok, I had a gut feeling that would be the reaction you'd get, because we apparently married the same guy.  I have been known to angst for weeks over how to say something *just right*, only to be met with "ok."  Maddening.  But he came through for you, and that's all that counts in the end. 

Anyway, huge congrats, and best wishes.  Stubborn bitches rule.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Stachless

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2017, 03:00:11 PM »
Congrats!!!  I'll have a drink in your honor right away!!!

KBecks

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2017, 03:56:13 PM »
Yay, so happy for you and happy that your husband is cool.

Honestly, don't give your boss the number and the reasons you would stay --- because you're not staying.  Your boss KNOWS the problems.  Don't give an exit interview, they aren't changing jack and you know it.  You are not staying!  You've already made that decision!  Woo hoo!

Leave.  Are you giving them 2 weeks?  I would offer your boss 2 weeks if she can make your environment safe enough where you won't be crapped on.  But don't feel bad leaving sooner, in a week or just leaving.  Anything is OK.  Try to make it polite, if they are difficult, take some personal days, leave early, whatever.

Take 3 months off and start networking with your customers.  You can start looking elsewhere first if you like.  Enjoy!!!  Congratulations!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2017, 03:58:10 PM by KBecks »

scottish

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2017, 07:43:23 PM »
Good decision.  Panic attacks caused by work are unacceptable all by themselves.

Best wishes for your time off.

Dicey

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #62 on: April 04, 2017, 07:54:17 PM »
Chiming in with a Badass Badass Badass echo. Hooray!
I did it! I have a journal!
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dandypandys

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2017, 07:04:10 AM »
So glad you quit, your husband sounds like a rad dude. I hope things improve stress wise .

NorCal

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #64 on: April 05, 2017, 07:12:49 AM »
Congrats on quitting!  Even if you're not at FI (by your defined needs), you have the benefit of FU money.  There is nothing more valuable.

I went through something very similar about a year ago in quitting a soul-sucking-miserable job.  The hardest thing is walking out of the office.

You will feel like a new person when you're done.  My advice is to take a few months off and relax.  It is SO worth it.  Then you can get into job search mode and figure out next steps.

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2017, 07:23:20 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence. 

StarBright

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2017, 07:39:10 AM »
Following this  thread with interest since I am in a similar work situation and making plans to try and move to part time soon.

I totally feel you about vacations not being worth it because it is just twice as much work when you get back -

but

if you decide to stay can you use the extra PTO to move to a  4 day workweek for a big chunk of the year? Maybe try it for a month or two and see if it helps. One day off never seems as disruptive as two or three. If it doesn't help you can always say that you gave it your best (and more) and walk away.

*edited to add, I too think you should feel good about walking away, and your DH is on board so yay!- but I know I would also be very tempted by the money so my comment was in the spirit of "if the money sways you . . . "
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 07:41:47 AM by StarBright »

L.A.S.

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2017, 07:47:49 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.

Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant? 

You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore.  You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.

You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.

If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money.  A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 07:51:39 AM by L.A.S. »

Laura33

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #68 on: April 05, 2017, 07:59:06 AM »
Repeat after me:  It's not about the money anymore.

I would consider their offer only if you can identify significant changes to the job itself that they can make to remove your biggest stressors.  I like LAS' idea of being an independent contractor -- maybe you can negotiate some specific project-based role with defined limits, at some ridiculous hourly pay? 

If it's all or nothing, just get the hell out of Dodge.  But huge congrats either way: clearly, they need you more than you need them, and that is a 100% awesome place to be.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Last Night

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #69 on: April 05, 2017, 08:04:45 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.

50% jump to deal with the same shit isn't worth it imo.

I would however consider the contractor angle a couple of days a week.  Instead of taking 50% increase what about working 2-3 days a week at your own pace and earn 100% of the salary you are making now.

If it doesn't work out, who cares, if it does and you are able to separate the stress/anxiety from the job even better and you essentially cut your working hours in half, eliminated the stress, and get paid the same.

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #70 on: April 05, 2017, 08:36:09 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.

Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant? 

You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore.  You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.

You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.

If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money.  A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.

Unfortunately, I deal with our customers, since I am apparently the only technical person in the company that also has social skills, and they don't only bitch on certain days of the week.  I'll toss it out there, at this stage it can't hurt since I'm already mentally checked out. 

Totally didn't know about the 3x hourly rate thing though so THANK YOU!  It's actually been something I've wondered about in the past.

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2017, 08:38:24 AM »
OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.

I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit

Cycling Stache

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #72 on: April 05, 2017, 08:43:35 AM »
OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.

I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit

Look at the flip side.  You spoke up, and things are happening.  That is good to know (about life, as well as just the job)!  And you found out your husband totally supports you.  Whatever happens, things are looking up!!

Laura33

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2017, 08:50:41 AM »
OH and I also just got out of our daily Scrum meeting and what do you know...3 of the things I bitched about yesterday and were told wouldn't get fixed, are miraculously getting fixed now.

I get they are trying but come the fuck on now, this is what it took, I had to deal with THIS much shit

If you haven't already, go read the "Epic FU Money" thread.  This, right here, is the power of FU money.  You just didn't know you had that power before, and so you failed to deploy it.  Now that you know, you can ask them to part the damn Red Sea, and if they fail to comply, that's their problem. 

Of course, if this realization also underscores that you've been working for a buch of schmucks (willing to push you to the breaking point before getting off their asses to even *try* to fix basic stuff), and if you then decide that this particular walking clusterfuck is no longer worthy of your talents at any price, well, that's all good, too. 

A/k/a this is a win-win -- time to rejoice in your stupendous badassity.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

L.A.S.

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2017, 09:11:46 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.

Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant? 

You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore.  You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.

You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.

If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money.  A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.

Unfortunately, I deal with our customers, since I am apparently the only technical person in the company that also has social skills, and they don't only bitch on certain days of the week.  I'll toss it out there, at this stage it can't hurt since I'm already mentally checked out. 

Totally didn't know about the 3x hourly rate thing though so THANK YOU!  It's actually been something I've wondered about in the past.

Keep in mind its a rough guide.  The market sets the rate.  But the market is the negotiation of you vs. your prospective client. If you're happy with 2X or 2.5X then so be it.

But, as an independent contractor you have to take into account that won't get benefits, bonuses, a place to work, equipment to work with, services such as a cell phone or Internet paid for by an employer, PTO/sick leave, you will have down/idle time, you may have marketing expenses if you choose to expand your business, you will be on the hook for self employment tax, you might need certain types of business liability insurance e.g. E&O, you may decide to incorporate and/or hire an accountant, etc.  So you have to select a rate that fairly compensates you for your time as employee as well as business owner, and also positions you such that you are only hired for the high-value work that is justified by the rate.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 09:25:30 AM by L.A.S. »

TealBlue

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2017, 09:26:59 AM »
Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted by a 50% pay increase.  I quit a miserable job once where I was underpaid to go work for my families company and they offered to double my salary.  If I wouldn't have already committed to my family I may have considered taking it but in hindsight, it would have only taken away part of the sting of all the issues I was dealing with there. 

When I put on my recruiter hat (I was a recruiter for 5 years) then I must say-

Companies almost always offer a valuable person more money when they put in notice.  Sometimes it's because they genuinely want them to stay and think they're worth it.  Mostly though, it's to buy them time to find someone else to fill the position, as they would rather pay you extra for 3 months while they find someone else then leave the position empty.  A lot of time it's a trust issue, they now know you're not a "company man" anymore and want to move on.  I'm not saying that's the situation there, but it is the situation a lot of the times!

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2017, 10:28:43 AM »
Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted by a 50% pay increase.  I quit a miserable job once where I was underpaid to go work for my families company and they offered to double my salary.  If I wouldn't have already committed to my family I may have considered taking it but in hindsight, it would have only taken away part of the sting of all the issues I was dealing with there. 

When I put on my recruiter hat (I was a recruiter for 5 years) then I must say-

Companies almost always offer a valuable person more money when they put in notice.  Sometimes it's because they genuinely want them to stay and think they're worth it.  Mostly though, it's to buy them time to find someone else to fill the position, as they would rather pay you extra for 3 months while they find someone else then leave the position empty.  A lot of time it's a trust issue, they now know you're not a "company man" anymore and want to move on.  I'm not saying that's the situation there, but it is the situation a lot of the times!

I honestly would not care if this was the case.  I'd be taking a decade of knowledge with me, I'm one of three left "in the old guard" here and I am the ONLY one that does my job (and based on the bitching when I take vacation the only one that "wants" to).

Told boss lady I am done, give me a list of what needs to be done prior to me leaving and hell or high water I'll get it done, didn't even approach the contracting angle, told her I'm flexible on an end date so long as it's within 30 days.
 
BL:  Are you serious?
Me: Yup
BL: Is there anything I can do?
Me:  I have spent the past 24 hours thinking of that and no.  This has NOTHING to do with you, you have literally done everything you can, the problems I have are completely out of your control.  You are awesome and you have fixed everything I had an issue with that you could since coming on.  I'm just done.  Nothing is going to change.  It hasn't in 10 years.  It's not going to now.  The environment here is toxic (something shes said in the past, again awesome boss lady, she's got a similar life path and goals as DH and I, we will be friends after this).
BL:  Yea I had a convo with X last week about pretty much that.
Me:  I feel like this is a personal failure of mine to not see this to the end.  Like it hurts.  But I can't do this anymore.
BL:  Come into my office

Now from here is a break, some dude I don't know walks into the office, they all know him (senior management all know each other, they have all spent the past years going from company to company together, they came in here about 2 years ago to replace our HORRIBLE management team, and by horrible, I was literally getting physically and verbally sexually harassed on a daily to weekly basis and they did nothing, they were replaced when I lost my shit on a board member I randomly saw in a bar one night).  Every one of senior management is now huddled in a conference room and voices are getting loud.  There has been talk, for a while, of the CEO and CFO "moving on".  I'm wondering if this is it.  This would have nothing to do with me if so, it's been "discussed" for about 5 months now.  But maybe change is coming?
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:58:46 AM by MishMash »

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2017, 10:34:45 AM »
So they threw a trough of cash at me this morning (as in like waaaaay more than a bucket, more like a horse trough) and a bump to 30 days PTO. I'm wavering. 

DH has messaged me several times since we talked yesterday.  He keeps reiterating what you all have said....you need time off, you need to get yourself right, no money is worth what has happened to you etc etc.  So glad at least he's 100% on board.

Still wavering though.  It's like 50% of my current salary, which is already pretty high.  The vacation days don't really matter, as has been evidenced by the past, I just go on vacation then come back to an epic SHIT storm because nothing gets taken care of in my absence.

Have you considered being an independent contractor/consultant? 

You can take work and money if you need/want it, but they don't get to call the shots anymore.  You could set your own hours, work from home, just show up there when you decide its actually important.

You could try to get them to negotiate away the non-compete clause as part of agreeing to take them on as a client.

If you go the consultant route, just make sure you demand enough money.  A rough guide would be the rule of 3. Basically 3X per hour of what a healthy hourly wage would be if you were an employee.

Unfortunately, I deal with our customers, since I am apparently the only technical person in the company that also has social skills, and they don't only bitch on certain days of the week.  I'll toss it out there, at this stage it can't hurt since I'm already mentally checked out. 

Totally didn't know about the 3x hourly rate thing though so THANK YOU!  It's actually been something I've wondered about in the past.

Keep in mind its a rough guide.  The market sets the rate.  But the market is the negotiation of you vs. your prospective client. If you're happy with 2X or 2.5X then so be it.

But, as an independent contractor you have to take into account that won't get benefits, bonuses, a place to work, equipment to work with, services such as a cell phone or Internet paid for by an employer, PTO/sick leave, you will have down/idle time, you may have marketing expenses if you choose to expand your business, you will be on the hook for self employment tax, you might need certain types of business liability insurance e.g. E&O, you may decide to incorporate and/or hire an accountant, etc.  So you have to select a rate that fairly compensates you for your time as employee as well as business owner, and also positions you such that you are only hired for the high-value work that is justified by the rate.

Good luck!

Yea, the taxes and benefits I knew to calculate, didn't think of leave.  Frankly, I'd LOVE to do short term contracting work.  DH's job provides all of the health insurance etc

shadesofgreen

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2017, 10:41:38 AM »
I am running to grab the popcorn.

It is really freeing when you come to the conclusion that it is just not worth the paycheck anymore [ at that place ]. You know that you can find a really good job and take a work break and focus on more personal things for a while..

mm1970

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2017, 10:47:17 AM »
I'm just really happy for you.  I'd be severely tempted by both the 50% bump and the changes happening.  But the 30 days PTO would need to go to 45.

I'm also stoked at your husband's reaction.

It's a win-win really.  I mean, even if you decided to stay and nothing changed, you'd bank some extra cash in the meantime.  Nobody's making you sign a year long contract to get the extra dough.

dougules

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2017, 11:02:28 AM »
Maybe you could take a wait-and-see approach.  Take the 50%, but keep that 2 week notice ready to go at a moment's notice if things don't improve.

As a plus side you might be the one to to have turned the company around and saved it from itself.  You're in a position now to be up front about what problems need to be fixed and how to fix them. 

Of course if you think you're just going to keep stressing about it, walk.   

And after the dust has settled this would be a great one to rehash on the  "Epic FU Money" thread.   
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 11:06:21 AM by dougules »

Zoot

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2017, 11:58:02 AM »
Posting to follow.

Take good care of yourself.  You may have PTSD after leaving.  Be gentle with yourself, and get help if you need it.

KBecks

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2017, 12:00:37 PM »
Whatever you choose, you are in good shape.  It's really up to you and what you think is best.  Don't sacrifice yourself for this company.  If they pull their shit together then maybe you want to continue, or then again, you're in tech with social skills -- the world is your oyster, baby!!

Have fun.  Here's to your bright future!

BabyShark

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2017, 12:14:14 PM »
I'm so impressed with you, mostly posting to follow and cheer you on!

RobFIRE

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2017, 02:44:09 PM »
I don't think extra money covers all the issues and resulting stress. And I also agree that if a company has had significant systematic issues for years, then the management has chosen not to act, or decided they don't see the issues as issues, so that's not going to change any time soon. It sounds like you've reached the same conclusion.

begood

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2017, 06:12:32 PM »
MishMash, good grief. Any one of the stressors you describe would be difficult to manage on its own, and you've got a whole raft of them happening at once.

I'm another in the back-to-back miscarriage club. It sucks sooooooo bad. It's hard physically, emotionally, and mentally, and it's often an invisible tragedy, so there's less support for your grief. I thought nothing good would ever happen in my life again after the second one.

I guess I just want to reiterate to take care of yourself. Do what's best for YOU. I think standing firm on leaving is a good choice, because it really isn't about the money. It's about how you want to live.

FireLane

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2017, 07:07:54 PM »
I read this whole thread and I was rooting for you to quit, MishMash. Panic attacks, two stress-related miscarriages... your company is evil. No one should have to put up with that. If I were in your place, I'd have told them where to shove it and quit long ago. Isn't that what this Mustachian stuff is all about? So that we don't have to tolerate shitty jobs?

I admit, a 50% raise and 30 PTO days sounds seriously tempting. But if nothing else changes, I doubt the money would make it worthwhile. With $1.4 mil in the bank already and your husband just a few years from a pension, I would think you're set for life already.

Only you can decide what's best for you. If you want to give them one more chance to improve, you can do that. If you want to walk, you can do that too. You have the power to choose. Isn't that supposed to be the best antidote to stress?

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #87 on: April 06, 2017, 08:52:56 AM »
So spent a good while with BL late yesterday,  she feels my frustrations with the basic decisions to get thing done the easy way vs the right way.  She wanted to make sure "I was serious" and I told her yea, I'm just fed up, stressed out, and something has to give.   She wanted a number to take to management that would make me stay.  I told her I'm not sure there was one but a doubling would probably do it.

Lets just say I got "eat shit and die" look from our CFO this morning.  So, don't think that's going to happen, don't really care. 

In scrum today the decision that finally broke me (made because it was easy, not because it was the best thing for the product, or our customers), was miraculously reversed.  They put the release on hold "to evaluate" They are apparently going to implement it the way I suggested made the most sense three months ago....

begood

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #88 on: April 06, 2017, 08:59:38 AM »
I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/

You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.

Vindicated

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #89 on: April 06, 2017, 09:02:51 AM »
P2F.  Your last few days has been quite the ride to read along with.  I wish you the best in whatever you decide!
My MMM Journal: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/my-almost-perfect-life-experience/

"Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. - Dalai Lama

KBecks

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #90 on: April 06, 2017, 09:03:14 AM »
It sounds like you've got them by the balls -- LOL.  Enjoy!

ETA: Really, when you've asserted yourself forcefully, they seem to get it.  You said something once about you going off on an exec and they listened.  So, if you are enjoying having influence, then exert your influence, and of course you can walk anytime you feel like it.

It sounds like you are super committed to a current project.  It is all up to your decisions, try to think of your whole life balance.
Also, would hiring someone under you help you at all?  Would that be valuable? 

Most of all, it is OK to leave and leaving may be the best answer, but -- they are squirming and I love reading about it!  :)
« Last Edit: April 06, 2017, 09:08:07 AM by KBecks »

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2017, 09:24:14 AM »
I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/

You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.

Yup, all of this.  My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client).    He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day.  All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it.  I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on.  She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.

dougules

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2017, 10:06:00 AM »
I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/

You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.

Yup, all of this.  My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client).    He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day.  All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it.  I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on.  She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.
 

Wow.  That's insane.  Are those same folks still there?

MishMash

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2017, 10:45:16 AM »
The VP is, and one of the other guys but they are in another office now so I only have to see/deal with them every couple of months now.  The rest were all cleared out after my epic bar room melt down, the new management is very professional, even if I don't agree with their business decisions.  Thankfully board member realized groping and stalking weren't appropriate things for a person to endure.

GU

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2017, 10:49:18 AM »
Sounds like things are looking up, congrats!

caracarn

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #95 on: April 06, 2017, 11:51:07 AM »
I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/

You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.

Yup, all of this.  My personal favorites were creepy hair stroker coworker and our VP of Sales that wanted to record the client that didn't know her camera was on and she was "in the buff" at her house (international client).    He put the phone on mute and was like QUICK, how do I start the recording on gotomeeting!! We need to save this shit for a rainy day.  All the guys laughed and laughed and tried to figure out how to record it.  I reached over, unmuted the phone and said, Ma'm I think your camera is on.  She was horrified, and they bitched at me for "ruining their fun" for 3 weeks.

This kind of stuff just disgusts me.   I've been a manager in IT for several decades and been pushing for more women in IT for a long time.  Sorry you have to work in one of the places this article refers to, but take heart if you do decide to find another position that not all workplaces are built as portrayed in the article and there many of out there trying to do what we can to make it better.

big_slacker

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #96 on: April 07, 2017, 09:42:46 AM »
I just finished reading an article in The Atlantic that you might find interesting about how dismally women are treated in the tech industry... and what the tech industry is trying (note I didn't say succeeding) to do about it:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/04/why-is-silicon-valley-so-awful-to-women/517788/

You're not alone in being mistreated, ignored, and dismissed by your peers and supervisors.

Sometimes those articles can't be taken as gospel because 'tech' isn't one company, one set of people, etc. You have to look at the people being interviewed as well. Some are building careers based on their experiences and dare I say agendas? I've been around tech a long time and I've left companies when I've seen shitty treatment of people so I know it exists. I've also seen people who live to be offended and definitely spin normal situations into sexism and racism that really didn't exist.

Also, someone's opinion or experience may vary WILDLY between companies or even teams within a company. FI the last company I worked for was super good ol' boy style. All the engineers were male, all the managers and directors male. Women were either sales or project management types. The company was definitely culturally diverse (black owned, people of all races and cultures truly welcome, teams were family style) but definitely gender divided. I can see an female engineer in particular leaving that company because of the culture.

The company I work for now, which BTW was mentioned in the article at one point in a negative way, is incredibly inclusive. I work with some kickass female engineers, one of them is the best low level troubleshooter I've encountered. I interviewed 5 people for some open spots we had on our team. The 3 dudes were not fit to do the work we needed, the two ladies were. We hired one, the other I was so pissed to not get because she has Trump era visa/green card issues. This is normal in this company, small teams like mine compete for the good people, your race or gender doesn't matter, we need f'in talent. In fact it's a bit of an advantage to NOT be one of the sea of male white or indian engineers. Your director and probably his boss WILL know who you are.

Sorry to go OT, I'm very happy to see the situation taking a turn for the better for the OP.

Villanelle

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #97 on: April 07, 2017, 11:52:41 PM »
At this point, I have no idea what I'd do in your shoes, OP!

I'd likely tell them I will give it a try if they increase my salary by 15% and decrease my hours by 20%, so I was getting both more pay and fewer hours.  I'd work four 8 hours days, with the understanding that I work those hours and those hours only, and what doesn't get done doesn't get done.  I think I'd give that a try.  But it seems like you and your DH are both okay with walking, so it may not be worth it.  The independent contractor thing also seems like it would be attractive, if they are willing to do it and you aren't dead set on walking away.  You could try to negotiate out the non-compete (or say that you'll say on an an IC but that if it doesn't work out then the time you spent as an IC needs to count against the non-compete wait time, so if the NC is 3 months and you do 1.5 months as an IC and can't stand it, you only have to wait another 1.5 months). Given that you presumably have Tricare, health insurance shouldn't be much of a concern, and that's one of the biggest issues with working independently. 

« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 11:55:12 PM by Villanelle »

Financial Fanatic

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #98 on: April 08, 2017, 11:48:46 PM »
Quit!!! Do it! Were with you!

Holyoak

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Re: I think today may be the day I quit
« Reply #99 on: April 09, 2017, 09:06:37 AM »
All this "give me a number", and heated "arguments" in meeting rooms, strikes me as a crappy car salesperson from hell scenario.  So now they can cough up a 50% pay increase; I'd be feeling kinda used, and their desperation is showing.  All of this reminds me of the psych studies I read at University, where more pay/some benefit was given to workers, that resulted in higher performance/better perceived work situation, resulting in more productivity/job satisfaction...  Only to revert back very shortly to previous levels, or worse.  Tossing $$$/broken "it will get better" promises/petty privileges, can't fix a toxic, dysfunctional work place, full of non-leadership.  It's a trap.  You will now just be a better paid, shinier miserable cog, where they will hold it over you, to justify more work piled on.  It's a perverse, lop sided quid pro quo, six sigma whatever the fuck approved tactic, that will destroy you, should you take the bait.  I've been there.

$1.4MM and nearly dying from stress?...  A GTFOuta there now message just entered your airspace, and all it takes to heed is a refined, as non bridge-burney as possible resignation letter.  Hell, I hit the FU eject button at work, before FU eject was cool, with barely two nickles to rub together; but have to say doing the FU eject, with FU $$$ to back it up, is far more satisfying...  Think Sting's "wrapped around your finger"... "When you find your servant is your master", and yet you still jump ship with a smile, seeing all of those, hurt/confused/angry/WTH do we do now, alabaster faces.  My God, it borders on ecstasy, with a feeling so light you nearly float out of the HR office, full of hope and awaiting bright futures.  Fuck em - Let them ride the inevitable death spiral of their own making to impact, w/o you on board. 

From my perspective, I see nothing but all gain ahead of you...  You have a husband who values you, a shit ton of $$$, are well educated and experienced, sound job market out there, an upcoming pension, and youth.  Good lord, you have hit the lottery, and may not see it.  I feel excited for you!