Author Topic: I need help on combining finances with my wife.  (Read 3336 times)

SmileAllDay

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I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« on: September 24, 2019, 11:15:31 AM »
After quite a few false dawns, I have gotten my beautiful wife on board with Mustachianism! :)

I want to be as helpful and supportive as possible but still have things feel 50-50.

For instance, we just closed on a rental property. I fronted all the down payment and my wife is paying me back her half gradually.

The next step is the index funds... Which is where I need your help:

I have ~$100,000 in Betterment. I want to dump OUR excess cash into it moving forward (as I've been doing MYSELF before my wife got on board) but don't know what's the smartest thing to do? I don't want things to be all "this is mine, this is ours" but up until now, we've had our finances separate with a joint credit card (European approach, I'm Irish).

Any advice?

P.S. Thanks in advance for not saying "You're married, combine everything even if it's all one-sided."


six-car-habit

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 11:37:19 AM »
 We use the % approach. I make about 5/8th of our total income, partner makes 3/8ths.  We figure out the house bills by going back over the past year. divide that into monthly # .  Lets say they happen to be $2400 . I would put foward $1500 and she $900 into the "monthly bills account".  Whats left over for her from her paycheck, she pays her phone, hobbies, gas, savings, etc. Whats left with mine i pay my car payment, gas, hobbies,savings, etc.
 I have not convinced her to put $$ into a combined "retirement savings" although we each put money into our emergency fund.

 I think you should focus on one thing at a time. Probably her "paying back" her share of the down payment.  And i would use the 1/3rd - 2/3rd method - or whatever your percentages happen to be.

 Once she has "caught up" on the down payment, then she could contribute to the betterment account.  How about she pays her % of savings into the betterment account until she hits the rental down payment payback 1st, then decide from there....

 I will say, if you fronted ALL the down payment on your new rental, really the decision to purchase it was more yours , than it was hers....
 
 

HPstache

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2019, 11:42:07 AM »
P.S. Thanks in advance for not saying "You're married, combine everything even if it's all one-sided."

Why?

Raenia

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2019, 11:45:14 AM »
Given that you want to keep things fairly separate, I would say to open a new account, with Betterment or elsewhere, for you to both put your excess into going forward.  Let 'your' Betterment account ride without additional contributions from you.  Or, you can open an account in just her name, for her to contribute.  I think the only way to keep 'your' 100k separate, is to actually keep it separate, in a different account.  Otherwise how will you distinguish 'your' contributions from 'her' contributions?

I also generally agree with the % approach, though in my relationship we did things 50/50 until switching to a more combined approach.  My DH was insistent on paying his 50% even though at the time he made about 40% of our total income.  I would say, if 50/50 is leaving the lower earner with very little leeway, then % is better.  I never want my partner stressing about his contribution to our household.

bbates728

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2019, 11:57:18 AM »
I appreciate the fact that up until now your finances weren't combined. It is a foreign concept to me and I only recently realized the potential benefits of doing so. That being said, your post is asking how to combine finances and the way to combine finances is to let go of concepts of "his & hers" but instead think of it as "ours".

Think of it in terms of a mathematical formula. How exactly do you expect to be able to split things going forward and have her pay you back for the down payment? It just doesn't really work. If X represents what you are earning and Y is what your SO is earning with A being your expenses and B being her expenses then we are going from this set of formulas:

X-A=Your Savings
Y-B= Her Savings

to

(X+Y) - (A-B) = Our Savings

BUT this means that there is no option for her to save extra in order to "pay you back" or even things out. The only option is to keep finances separate until your SO can buy half of the equity in the house. THEN she will be further behind in your joint portfolio...

Essentially, your SO needs to be saving more money than you for an extended period of time in order to get "even" at which point you can finally combine finances. INSTEAD, develop an understanding that combining finances means working as a team and that teams don't have individual scores at which point you forget who paid for what already.

....

This is just keeping separate finances isn't it?

Prairie Stash

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2019, 02:56:39 PM »
My wife has her accounts and I have mine. We compare them regularly and have a friendly competition, the winner is the person who has the higher % increase (gains, not total). There is no real prize, its just a way to make it fun for us. Our family has a NW, but individually, we also have ours. I make it a point not to compare total value, we regularly trade wins.

I see no issue with having two accounts with Betterment. If she is relatively new to it, I think its better to witness it first hand. Seeing her money grow, as opposed to yours and hers, might give her a better sense of ownership initially and help encourage more savings. I also found it better for learning, she asks a lot more questions than if I did it all.

Is your end goal to make the account big or to make the family richer? Will having one account or two better serve your purpose? Everyone has differing motivations, what will motivate your wife the most?

KBCB

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2019, 06:00:02 PM »
We have separate finances and it will be that way for .. well.. maybe forever. I think you have to do what works best for both you and your DW. This is an exciting chapter you are going into together. I hope to one day get the DH to come on board.

six-car-habit

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2019, 11:02:14 AM »
 bbates728. - Yes it is essentially keeping seperate finances.  At times we will agree to pitch money in together toward a big purchase.  Or medical or veterinary bills. But on a big purchse where one spouse does not support [ like the extra large couch one wanted ] , the other can decline to contribute.

  But each spouse also has a fair amount of "their money" left over each month, so it leaves a fair amount of autonomy to buy what they want , without needing "permission".  Whereas i hear co-workers say, "well the wife gave me $200 to spend this month", when the co-worker is the majority earner.

  Anything our "house" needs is a joint expense - utilities, car insurance, groceries, childs clothes, etc.      I have other friends where one pays the mortgage and food, and the other pays just the utilities - which leads to a lopsided split of money contributed [ even figuring in my % of net income scheme ]

bbates728

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 11:31:35 AM »
bbates728. - Yes it is essentially keeping seperate finances.  At times we will agree to pitch money in together toward a big purchase.  Or medical or veterinary bills. But on a big purchse where one spouse does not support [ like the extra large couch one wanted ] , the other can decline to contribute.

  But each spouse also has a fair amount of "their money" left over each month, so it leaves a fair amount of autonomy to buy what they want , without needing "permission".  Whereas i hear co-workers say, "well the wife gave me $200 to spend this month", when the co-worker is the majority earner.

  Anything our "house" needs is a joint expense - utilities, car insurance, groceries, childs clothes, etc.      I have other friends where one pays the mortgage and food, and the other pays just the utilities - which leads to a lopsided split of money contributed [ even figuring in my % of net income scheme ]

Well, if the idea is to keep finances essentially separated but closer then I definitely agree with @Raenia and have even considered doing something similar. A % based approach seems to be a great mix of making sure we are both paying amounts that feel similar in relation to our paychecks while still allowing for autonomy.

I also have heard coworkers talking like their spouse holds all of the power. That shit is wack. Thankfully my wife and I are on the same page with things mostly and are empathetic people surrounding each other's wants. I have found myself using her as an excuse why I am not going out to lunch with people or to happy hours after work. Thankfully she knows it is just an excuse :)

hadabeardonce

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 02:36:49 PM »
Every relationship is different, but we've had good success with...
  • discussing decisions together prior to making commitments, purchases, etc.
  • using "we" a lot in statements
  • having a joint checking/savings/credit card/etc. accounts
  • ignoring income as a measurement of self worth/personal value/ability
  • being supportive and giving
  • not keeping score/tab
  • recognizing that we are a team

Together since 2004, married since 2008.

Gronnie

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 05:37:51 PM »
For those of you that do something like I make 5/8 of the income and she makes 3/8, so we split bills in that proportion. Don't you have to take taxes into the equation somehow (higher income taxed higher)?

marty998

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 06:24:37 PM »
For those of you that do something like I make 5/8 of the income and she makes 3/8, so we split bills in that proportion. Don't you have to take taxes into the equation somehow (higher income taxed higher)?

Perhaps they work it out based on net income hitting the bank accounts.

Telecaster

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 07:05:04 PM »
I see no issue with having two accounts with Betterment. If she is relatively new to it, I think its better to witness it first hand. Seeing her money grow, as opposed to yours and hers, might give her a better sense of ownership initially and help encourage more savings. I also found it better for learning, she asks a lot more questions than if I did it all.

If you have two Betterment accounts you need firewall separation of finances so you don't accidentally trigger a wash sale. 

BTDretire

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2019, 07:26:28 PM »
 Does she know you are pushing her into a higher tax bracket?  ;-/

six-car-habit

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2019, 09:17:52 PM »
For those of you that do something like I make 5/8 of the income and she makes 3/8, so we split bills in that proportion. Don't you have to take taxes into the equation somehow (higher income taxed higher)?

  We sort of take the taxes into account, I [5/8ths] know i pay more in.  Wife pays hers through her part-time job payroll, but she also has self employment taxes that she pays quarterly @ 25% of income , so she sort-of catches up there. We usually get a tax refund [ i know i'm lending the govt money ] which we split 5/8 - 3/8 still.  Also all the health insurance + dental premimus come out of my paychecks , so we have that figured into the mix as well.

   The other thing is i will take a day off [ child]  if she needs to do quarterlies, or she will shift her schedule if i need to go in on a non-scheduled day - rare but its usually a small amount of overtime for me. And then i feel more generous to contributing towards next " unique-non recurring house purchase" .

  The percentage thing in a way also, rewards [ with spare personal money ] the spouse who has A] more time at same employer  B] more education  C] more stressfull / dirtier / harder job. That being said-  I've tried to convince spouse to get more education to increase her income potential - but she likes the amount of responsibility she has at current position , and doesn't want more , so declined on further schooling.

  *** "I also have heard coworkers talking like their spouse holds all of the power. That shit is wack. " ***
 No doubt , i have a co-worker whose wife works part time less than 20 hours a week, kids are out of house / grown up, she could get more hours but doesn't. He is of the sort who has to ask to buy things, gets an "allowance" .  A tough guy at work but the family jewels are locked in his wifes purse apparently, and he won't try to retrieve them....

lutorm

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2019, 11:41:00 PM »
When we first got married, it made sense for us to keep things mostly separate. As time goes on and our life situation evolves, it becomes less and less tenable, though.

When you start doing things like moving because one of you got a really attractive, well paying job offer, but where the spouse's job prospects are less than stellar, or you have a kid and the mother stays home for a couple of months because she's breastfeeding and thus won't make any money, you're now in a situation where one of the partners sacrifice money for doing something else for the family. At that point, you really have to optimize globally otherwise things can become really unfair.

Metalcat

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2019, 04:31:21 AM »
So, there's separate accounts, there's separate wealth, and then there's separate budgeting. These are not all the same thing.

-Separate accounts just means that the actual accounts are separate and that the money isn't directly pooled together. This indicates nothing about how the money moves around or if expenses are split.
-Combined accounts means literally having joint accounts or pooling money into one person's account.

-Separate wealth means that whatever assets are built up, there is a clear organization as to which assets belong to whom. So, here, if a couple isn't married and only one person owns the house/ has a pension/retirement account, those assets belong to them alone.
-Getting married automatically combines wealth in most jurisdictions to some degree, but the details can be complicated. There are many ways in which wealth can become entangled, home ownership is a big one.

-Separate budgets means agreeing on whatever proportion of shared expenses each contributes, and then basically keeping your nose out of each other's spending otherwise.
-Combined budgets can consist of many different forms, and often involve all/most spending decisions to be shared.

A couple can have any degree of combination of the above aspects of separate/combined finances, meaning that there are endless ways to arrange it for any given couple.

The key is to talk about it openly and in detail, establish mutual priorities and structure an agreement from there. Think about how you would handle it if it were a business partnership, you would be very focused on what's fair for both parties, so treat relationship finances the same way.

There is no right answer, there's only what's right for you as a couple, so talk, and keep talking because what's right will also change over time.


fire100xz

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Re: I need help on combining finances with my wife.
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2019, 11:04:19 AM »
Hi, I am new to this Forum so here goes a question instead of an answer

How did you manage to get your wife onboard with Moustachianism?


I want to progress with MMM and FI, but my spouse of more than a decade has zero interest.  Very interested in how you did the convincing.