I have to fire someone else

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

FWIW, Giro, you sound like the kind of manager I like to have. Clear about expectations, hands off, and no BS.

I'd like to know if the people arguing for this guy to get a year's severance, full pension and a pony have ever been in a situation working with someone who didn't do their job or anything approximating it. I have. It's a personally demoralizing situation. I felt like any effort I put in was a waste, because not only did it not make sense to do someone else's job for them, clearly management didn't recognize or care about good performance versus bad. And, in my situation, I had reason to believe the poor performer made significantly more than me. Given this guy's age and presumed experience, it seems likely there's at least one other person who could assume this guy makes more than them.

[ender]

The decision that a team member is not pulling their weight is easy.  The actual task of advising a person that they are no longer needed, is not at all easy.

My problem right now is that my company does not want to tell the gentleman until we get our new contract and that means he will have no advanced notice.  The contract will be awarded before April 1.  I made the decision that he would not be offered a position on the new contract yesterday.  I want to replace him with someone a little more aggressive.  He sits and waits for tasks to come to him. 

The guy is probably late 50's early 60'2.  I've fired people before and it always take a big toll on me. 

Any ideas on ways to cope?  I am so strong in my decision to let certain people go, but I'm a big softie when it comes to actually doing it.

I'm trying to understand how he won't have any advance notice.

It sounds like its more his company isn't giving him any notice.

If your company normally gives your contractors their employment contracts for the next year the day before they take effect then yeah, that's a pretty crappy move on your part. But most people on contracts have more advance notice - "hey when are we going to re-sign my contract for the next year? it expires in a few months" rather than "hey boss my contract ends today, do you think we can re-sign the contract for next year?"

[The_Bowme]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

FWIW, Giro, you sound like the kind of manager I like to have. Clear about expectations, hands off, and no BS.

I'd like to know if the people arguing for this guy to get a year's severance, full pension and a pony have ever been in a situation working with someone who didn't do their job or anything approximating it. I have. It's a personally demoralizing situation. I felt like any effort I put in was a waste, because not only did it not make sense to do someone else's job for them, clearly management didn't recognize or care about good performance versus bad. And, in my situation, I had reason to believe the poor performer made significantly more than me. Given this guy's age and presumed experience, it seems likely there's at least one other person who could assume this guy makes more than them.

Double standards about notice != fascism.

[Tabaxus]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

FWIW, Giro, you sound like the kind of manager I like to have. Clear about expectations, hands off, and no BS.

I'd like to know if the people arguing for this guy to get a year's severance, full pension and a pony have ever been in a situation working with someone who didn't do their job or anything approximating it. I have. It's a personally demoralizing situation. I felt like any effort I put in was a waste, because not only did it not make sense to do someone else's job for them, clearly management didn't recognize or care about good performance versus bad. And, in my situation, I had reason to believe the poor performer made significantly more than me. Given this guy's age and presumed experience, it seems likely there's at least one other person who could assume this guy makes more than them.

Wow.  Apparently people who think dead weight shouldn't be paid money to do literally no work (especially where they've already been getting paid to do bad work) are "fascists" now.  Nice. 


Give me a break.  I get pissed when bosses don't fire idiots people quickly enough.  The other people on this person's team have to pick up the slack, which sucks for those other people, and a good job slot is being taken up by someone who doesn't deserve it, when it could instead be filled by someone who does.  And the person getting fired should be paid for that?

[mm1970]

I have been following this thread and find it really fascinating, as I find it odd to be here on this forum.  The OP may be a fine person, who knows, but here is some of what I have read so far:

• "I want to replace him with someone a little more aggressive.  He sits and waits for tasks to come to him."
• "He is aware of my expectations and disappointment in his performance."
• "...if his current performance is any indication of his past 30 years, he has been coasting all along.  idk.  Maybe he used to be good and hard-working, but I have never seen it."
• "I wouldn't describe his work as "not doing everything perfectly".  He ... sits at his desk doing nothing unless I go to him and give him direct tasks with outlined procedures.  Everyone else on my team is proactive and tries hard to be value-added.  I have advised over and over that if you have downtime, go help a coworker or come to me IMMEDIATELY.  My company is new on this specific program and I'm trying hard to build a reputation and make a name for us."
• "I can't afford to have resources who aren't pulling their weight.  I don't want to allow one resource to take us all down with him.  But I'm ultimately responsible for the lives of 13 people not just 1."
• "We believe in hard work and they have rewarded me over and over for my dedication and commitment to the company.  I was employee of the year last year and I plan to be awarded with the same title this year." 

From everything I have read on these forums, one thing always seemed to stand out - having a work life balance.  This sounds like anything but that (from what's been written anyway).  Especially with the "employee of the year" comments.  And don't get me started on calling everyone "resources".

To me it comes across as a boss that would drive most people here up the wall.  You could be giving people multiple tasks with a priority for each instead of what you're doing now.  Some people (I'll include myself in this group) think managers that expect you to constantly jump to them every time they finish a project (whereas perhaps needing to take a break especially if you kicked ass producing the xyz report in record time) as someone that will drive themselves to an early grave, and not someone I will follow along to said early grave.

You describe his work not as "not doing everything perfectly", yet "I can't even allow him in front of the client unless I am there."  So he does better than good work, yet you need to be the one in front of the clients all the time.   Again, this comes across as someone that has to be large and in charge and must make changes to things to show they are the top dog.

What would really be great would be to have the employee in question on here and read his side of the story.  I bet it would sound like one of the "FU Money" stories in one of the other threads.  (Nothing personal OP, just calling it as I see it)

Wow, I read all of those quotes and think the exact opposite.  I completely agree with the OP here.

Firstly, most jobs come with expectations.  Specific things that you are responsible for on a daily basis.  Projects.  Whatever.

But most jobs also come with "other".  There are many things that fall into the gray areas that don't necessarily belong to any one person. 

And then there are the "team" projects and aspects of a job.

In manufacturing, if you are an engineer, it might be something like this:
You are the photo engineer.  You are responsible for making sure that the photo processes are up and working. 
If a tool goes down, you make sure that it gets fixed, and then you test it.
If a process looks funny, you figure out why and fix it.
If a particular lot gets messed up, you rework it and make sure it doesn't happen again.
When new masks come in, you install them, pull the old ones, make sure the paperwork is updated.


The "other" stuff would be:
keeping the work area clean and neat
scrapping old experimental wafers
setting up a system to reuse experimental wafers
making sure that we don't run out of chemicals
Keeping on top of documentation
Helping the other groups
Dispositioning lots on hold

So let's say that you get one experimental project handed to you and you finish it - then what?  The fab is still running.  Things are breaking, lots are on hold, someone still needs to monitor SPC charts.

Some jobs are cut and dried, but many are not.  There is a huge difference between people who "do only what is assigned to them" and people who "do whatever needs to be done".  I can tell you a senior engineer and former manager - the people who just "fix things" as opposed to people who wait to be told to do so, are amazing.  I have to admit, the  two 55-60 year old men I worked with just waited for people to tell them what to do, and the women just did whatever needed to be done it and moved on.

[mm1970]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

Don't conflate termination while being considerate of employee with termination while not. There is not 1 single word by anyone in this thread arguing against the termination of this employee.

[Tabaxus]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

Don't conflate termination while being considerate of employee with termination while not. There is not 1 single word by anyone in this thread arguing against the termination of this employee.

Yeah, just people arguing that this person who already got paid for doing his job poorly should get paid on his way out to literally not do any work at all.   Because money grows on trees.

[Giro]

Thanks everyone for the support.  I'm working on getting him a 2 week notice but there are security issues involved.

And I'm actually a female.  Some folks thought I was a guy.  :) 

Im a software engineer, configuring Oracle Financials and a little bit of customization.  The guy was on my Quality team doing process assessments and supposed to implement corrective actions. 

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

Don't conflate termination while being considerate of employee with termination while not. There is not 1 single word by anyone in this thread arguing against the termination of this employee.

Yeah, just people arguing that this person who already got paid for doing his job poorly should get paid on his way out to literally not do any work at all.   Because money grows on trees.

Again, I've yet to see one person argue that anything more than some notice is reasonable. You're so biased for being able to toss someone to the curb that you're making straw man arguments that are failing miserably when held up to the facts.

[Tabaxus]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

Don't conflate termination while being considerate of employee with termination while not. There is not 1 single word by anyone in this thread arguing against the termination of this employee.

Yeah, just people arguing that this person who already got paid for doing his job poorly should get paid on his way out to literally not do any work at all.   Because money grows on trees.

Again, I've yet to see one person argue that anything more than some notice is reasonable. You're so biased for being able to toss someone to the curb that you're making straw man arguments that are failing miserably when held up to the facts.

No, there are people arguing that there should be some severance (including you).  I agree that firing someone without any notice (other than for really egregious things that require an immediate response) is lame (though I also think contract workers did sign up for higher risk here, because they're on a timed contract).  Of course, I would never expect OP to stick her own neck out in a way that violates her company's policy, because that would be ridiculous, and if there are legitimate security reasons for not giving someone notice, then so be it, especially a contract worker.

[Giro]

Just to play devils advocate, how many people here would want to work next to a guy who knows he's being let go in two weeks? 

[LeRainDrop]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

[Tabaxus]

Just to play devils advocate, how many people here would want to work next to a guy who knows he's being let go in two weeks?

I certainly wouldn't want to, but I do think that having people put up with 2 weeks of a bit of whining/less than stellar performance from someone on their way out is the right balance against a person who is losing their job.

[LeRainDrop]

Just to play devils advocate, how many people here would want to work next to a guy who knows he's being let go in two weeks?

Nope, I'm on the same page as you Giro.  When we let someone go for performance issues (after setting clear expectations, coaching, etc. along the lines that you have already done), then the termination is effective immediately, and depending on years of service, they may get severance pay.  Two weeks' severance pay for your guy would be the nice thing to do -- not necessary, but nice if you can convince your company to do it.  I also wanted to highlight one of the first responses in this thread because they give you a great resource.  I highly recommend you start following the Ask A Manager website.  Alison knows her stuff and gives great advice.

This contains the most important advice:  http://www.askamanager.org/2012/05/how-to-fire-an-employee.html

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

It's hardly fascist for a manager to let someone go - especially when it sounds like he's been pretty clear about his expectations, and the employee's failure to live up to them.

In my company, it took until we hired senior managers before they started letting the poor performers go.  It starts with meetings and being clear about expectations - and then moves on to a specific plan of improvement.

If the employee cannot, or does not, improve, then they get let go.  In every case, the employee was given the opportunity to improve.

Three of the four poor performers were let go for poor performance.  The fourth?  Well, he's the same...ethnicity as the people in charge.  Somehow, he was "saved" and promoted.

Don't conflate termination while being considerate of employee with termination while not. There is not 1 single word by anyone in this thread arguing against the termination of this employee.

Yeah, just people arguing that this person who already got paid for doing his job poorly should get paid on his way out to literally not do any work at all.   Because money grows on trees.

Again, I've yet to see one person argue that anything more than some notice is reasonable. You're so biased for being able to toss someone to the curb that you're making straw man arguments that are failing miserably when held up to the facts.

No, there are people arguing that there should be some severance (including you).  I agree that firing someone without any notice (other than for really egregious things that require an immediate response) is lame (though I also think contract workers did sign up for higher risk here, because they're on a timed contract).  Of course, I would never expect OP to stick her own neck out in a way that violates her company's policy, because that would be ridiculous, and if there are legitimate security reasons for not giving someone notice, then so be it, especially a contract worker.

OP has clarified that this is an employee and not a contractor. This is like the fifth person to say that it's ok to do this because the employee is a contractor even though employee is not a contractor. I also argued that either notice or severance(not both) is the right thing to do. I work for a company that treats their employees like cattle. I can assure you that the majority of the ones who stay go out of their way to look like they're being productive yet sabotage many things with spreading rumors and half assing things. I've also worked for a company that wouldn't do what op is suggesting. They would spend hours counseling the employee and let them know where they were on the job status level. One of my best co workers left my current company to go to my previous one and took about a 5% pay cut. Scummyness finds a way to bite you in the butt.

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

Considering my fascist comment was a semi tongue in cheek response for being called a bleeding heart just before I think I know where your bias lies.

[LeRainDrop]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

Considering my fascist comment was a semi tongue in cheek response for being called a bleeding heart just before I think I know where your bias lies.

Well, as far as my history lessons have served, "bleeding hearts" aren't associated with killing millions of innocent people, whereas "fascists" undisputedly are.  Characterization as a "bleeding heart" does not have equal power to characterization as a "fascist."

[Chris22]

Just to play devils advocate, how many people here would want to work next to a guy who knows he's being let go in two weeks?

Having been that guy (sorta, see my above about requesting and being granted a layoff) I took great pleasure in writing in large letters on my whiteboard "NMFP" in my office.  As my last day came closer, people would come into my office and ask "yikes, so, uh, when you leave, who do I go to for XXX?"  I'd point to my white board.  "What does NMFP mean?"  "Not My Fucking Problem." 

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

Considering my fascist comment was a semi tongue in cheek response for being called a bleeding heart just before I think I know where your bias lies.

Well, as far as my history lessons have served, "bleeding hearts" aren't associated with killing millions of innocent people, whereas "fascists" undisputedly are.  Characterization as a "bleeding heart" does not have equal power to characterization as a "fascist."

That's a lame argument, man. Once someone else starts with the name calling, all bets are off.

[Midwest]

Just to play devils advocate, how many people here would want to work next to a guy who knows he's being let go in two weeks?

Nope, I'm on the same page as you Giro.  When we let someone go for performance issues (after setting clear expectations, coaching, etc. along the lines that you have already done), then the termination is effective immediately, and depending on years of service, they may get severance pay.  Two weeks' severance pay for your guy would be the nice thing to do -- not necessary, but nice if you can convince your company to do it.  I also wanted to highlight one of the first responses in this thread because they give you a great resource.  I highly recommend you start following the Ask A Manager website.  Alison knows her stuff and gives great advice.

This contains the most important advice:  http://www.askamanager.org/2012/05/how-to-fire-an-employee.html

Would you want someone who knows they are getting fired under these circumstances to have access to your systems/information/customers for any time after they get fired?  People can and do bad things when they are angry. 

If I was fired, I wouldn't necessarily want to come in after being let go.  Too much liability if something does go wrong.

Giving 2 weeks notice as an employee is a courtesy.  I would say severance pay is a courtesy as well. 

Two weeks isn't going to make a ton of difference to a 100k employee regardless.  The cost to the employee is less than $4k.  Can't imagine that's a make or break # to a late 50's worker making 100k.   

[ender]

Two weeks isn't going to make a ton of difference to a 100k employee regardless.  The cost to the employee is less than $4k.  Can't imagine that's a make or break # to a late 50's worker making 100k.

Plenty of people stupidly live paycheck to paycheck.

Also, OP, something to keep in mind is people at your company also observe things like this and adjust their perspectives of how the company treats employees based on this. Whether the person is a salaried employee or contractor, they are still a person.

I can most certainly say seeing how my previous company treated contracted resources (similarly poorly with minimal notice or shortly after people moved to start) definitely affected my loyalty to the company as a salaried person, when I was considering the implications of me leaving. I gave my notice within a month of a few contractors being released by our department, to transition their work to me.

Had I not had previous experience watching my company screw over contractors with minimal notice I almost assuredly would have not been as willing to leave in that awkward timing as I did. It made it a lot easier for me to not feel guilty at all.

[Midwest]

Two weeks isn't going to make a ton of difference to a 100k employee regardless.  The cost to the employee is less than $4k.  Can't imagine that's a make or break # to a late 50's worker making 100k.

Plenty of people stupidly live paycheck to paycheck.

Also, OP, something to keep in mind is people at your company also observe things like this and adjust their perspectives of how the company treats employees based on this. Whether the person is a salaried employee or contractor, they are still a person.

I can most certainly say seeing how my previous company treated contracted resources (similarly poorly with minimal notice or shortly after people moved to start) definitely affected my loyalty to the company as a salaried person, when I was considering the implications of me leaving. I gave my notice within a month of a few contractors being released by our department, to transition their work to me.

Had I not had previous experience watching my company screw over contractors with minimal notice I almost assuredly would have not been as willing to leave in that awkward timing as I did. It made it a lot easier for me to not feel guilty at all.

I agree plenty live paycheck to paycheck (sometimes due to poor decision making/sometimes due to circumstances).  If someone making 100k is living check to check, another $4k won't matter.

[Giro]

Two weeks isn't going to make a ton of difference to a 100k employee regardless.  The cost to the employee is less than $4k.  Can't imagine that's a make or break # to a late 50's worker making 100k.

Plenty of people stupidly live paycheck to paycheck.

Also, OP, something to keep in mind is people at your company also observe things like this and adjust their perspectives of how the company treats employees based on this. Whether the person is a salaried employee or contractor, they are still a person.

I can most certainly say seeing how my previous company treated contracted resources (similarly poorly with minimal notice or shortly after people moved to start) definitely affected my loyalty to the company as a salaried person, when I was considering the implications of me leaving. I gave my notice within a month of a few contractors being released by our department, to transition their work to me.

Had I not had previous experience watching my company screw over contractors with minimal notice I almost assuredly would have not been as willing to leave in that awkward timing as I did. It made it a lot easier for me to not feel guilty at all.

Morale is the one thing I'm truly not worried about.  I've had complaints from my team about him and his work.  A few have caught him falling asleep in meetings and that really annoys people.  I'm sure morale will improve.  I'll also be able to be even more flexible once he's gone.  When everyone is working hard and getting things done, we get to enjoy purselves more.  Team happy hours, early dismissals, etc. 

[Psychstache]

Two weeks isn't going to make a ton of difference to a 100k employee regardless.  The cost to the employee is less than $4k.  Can't imagine that's a make or break # to a late 50's worker making 100k.

Plenty of people stupidly live paycheck to paycheck.

Also, OP, something to keep in mind is people at your company also observe things like this and adjust their perspectives of how the company treats employees based on this. Whether the person is a salaried employee or contractor, they are still a person.

I can most certainly say seeing how my previous company treated contracted resources (similarly poorly with minimal notice or shortly after people moved to start) definitely affected my loyalty to the company as a salaried person, when I was considering the implications of me leaving. I gave my notice within a month of a few contractors being released by our department, to transition their work to me.

Had I not had previous experience watching my company screw over contractors with minimal notice I almost assuredly would have not been as willing to leave in that awkward timing as I did. It made it a lot easier for me to not feel guilty at all.

Morale is the one thing I'm truly not worried about.  I've had complaints from my team about him and his work.  A few have caught him falling asleep in meetings and that really annoys people.  I'm sure morale will improve.  I'll also be able to be even more flexible once he's gone.  When everyone is working hard and getting things done, we get to enjoy purselves more.  Team happy hours, early dismissals, etc.

Makes sense, I think keeping ineffective knuckleheads around is much more likely to negatively impact morale than abruptly letting infective knuckleheads go.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[highlow65]

It pretty easy for me,  I have my wife do it, shes no softy

[merula]

Hey, Giro, can you change the title of this thread to be "I have to fire someone WHO IS NOT A CONTRACT EMPLOYEE"? Might clear up a lot of confusion.

And, if the higher ups you're talking to have security concerns about two weeks' notice, could you have his presence at work end immediately and pay him for his last two weeks? My company does that with people who voluntarily leave to go to a competitor; take the next hour to clean out your desk (typically while supervised), and go.

One other thing: is this guy going to get a payout of accrued vacation or sick time? That might assuage some people here who are concerned he's being turned out on the streets with just his stapler and the shirt on his back.

[Jakerado]

One thing that I haven't seen suggested and might work out: Fire the guy today (well, tomorrow) and pay him for the time remaining in the contract as a severance package. You get rid of an underperforming employee, he gets advanced notice. May or may not pass HR ;) but keep in mind a slacking employee can bring down morale and performance for everyone else as well...

[faramund]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

Considering my fascist comment was a semi tongue in cheek response for being called a bleeding heart just before I think I know where your bias lies.

Well, as far as my history lessons have served, "bleeding hearts" aren't associated with killing millions of innocent people, whereas "fascists" undisputedly are.  Characterization as a "bleeding heart" does not have equal power to characterization as a "fascist."

That's a lame argument, man. Once someone else starts with the name calling, all bets are off.

I immediately thought of Godwin's law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), particularly the popular corollary that whoever is first to use a Nazi comparison, automatically loses the argument. Although, the word was fascism, and not actually the word Nazi, so I'm not sure it applies.

So BucksandReds, for clarity, by fascism, were you thinking of WW2 nazi's, or maybe more 1980's South American fascists? 
 

[Bucksandreds]

I wonder why the fascists that want to ditch this guy to the curb instantly, try to distort the fact that some believe some notice or small severance equates to a year's pay and pension. Just because we live in a country that legally allows employers to say get out and your on your own as of this second, doesn't make it right. 

Ding, ding, ding!  We have a winner!  First person to launch the "fascist" bomb!  It might be "cool" in college to do that to put down whomever you're deriding regardless of context, but in grown-up-land, we can see when, as here, it is a patently silly attack.  Honestly, it just does not make any sense.

Considering my fascist comment was a semi tongue in cheek response for being called a bleeding heart just before I think I know where your bias lies.

Well, as far as my history lessons have served, "bleeding hearts" aren't associated with killing millions of innocent people, whereas "fascists" undisputedly are.  Characterization as a "bleeding heart" does not have equal power to characterization as a "fascist."

That's a lame argument, man. Once someone else starts with the name calling, all bets are off.

I immediately thought of Godwin's law ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), particularly the popular corollary that whoever is first to use a Nazi comparison, automatically loses the argument. Although, the word was fascism, and not actually the word Nazi, so I'm not sure it applies.

So BucksandReds, for clarity, by fascism, were you thinking of WW2 nazi's, or maybe more 1980's South American fascists?

A bleeding heart is to thoughtfulness towards the little guy as a fascist is to the omnipotence of calculated business decisions. No more no less. The person who attacked my corollary either is not the brightest or didn't read the posts before mine.

[EverCurious]

So because he doesn't perform to your level of expectation it is ok to give him no notice and leave him with zero source of income?  Does your company ask for employees to give 2 weeks notice when the employee takes another position? If so,this proves my point.

All employment that is not specifically noted in a contract is at-will. Even more, this situation *is* a contract, with a specified ending date. No employment is guaranteed beyond that date. I have no sympathy for him. This is why you never do anything in your career unless it is going to benefit you. Don't turn down jobs, or work longer hours, or check in during a vacation unless you honestly believe it will lead to something better for you. Do your best during normal working hours and then go home. Always be on the lookout for a better paying job. Speak up during annual reviews and ask about salary increases and bonus money.

I'm ok with the idea that a company can get rid of me at any time without notice. That is what an emergency fund is for. At the same time, I'm OK with leaving a company the minute it is beneficial for me to do so. Work is just providing a service for payment.

Yeah. I have never worked a job that does things differently. I can't say I feel sorry for the guy, especially if he is in an At-will job. He knew he could get fired without warning, and chose to perform poorly. But you probably did a good thing,OP, for giving him a 2 week notice. I've never heard of doing that.