Author Topic: I hate Christmas  (Read 26129 times)

May2030

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #50 on: December 24, 2017, 01:26:10 PM »
Used to say I hated Christmas but found it put me in a negative mood with a sense of dread from late October onward. I realise now enjoying the little bits I do like is a better way of thinking about it.

I dislike the consumerism and the threat from advertisers "if you do not buy product X your children wont love you and you will be a failure." Spoke to a woman at work who is on minimum wage who saves all year to give her grandchildren money. At best guess I calculated 20% plus of her annual take home pay is given away. When I suggested giving a less expensive gift she said "they would turn their noses up at it." Its all very wrong, total insanity but each to their own I suppose.

To quote my late Father "its only one day."

FINate

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2017, 01:28:03 PM »
The consumerism is a distraction.
Focus on the real reason for the holiday.
Jesus.

Sure. Should we focus on Jesus’ message to help the poor and sick while Republicans try to dismantle health care and social security?

Nobody cares about Jesus or his messages. It’s all lip service. If Jesus was alive today, he would be ignored or locked up.

And if you need his birthday to be a decent person, what are you doing the rest of the year?

People do care, do take his message to heart. Not every Christian votes Rep, many even vote Dem! I have had success convincing hard-core conservative Christians to change their views towards social justice issues using the values/theology of the faith.

If someone chooses to focus on spirituality and a message of caring for others rather than consumerism on Christmas I would think that's something MMM would endorse.

Yes, but that’s not for a day a year. That should be your daily ideology. People treat Xmas like the one time of year they remember to be human. It’s not. There’s nothing special about the day, it’s like any other. Be decent all year.

Agree! But that's not mutually exclusive of setting apart holidays (holy days) as a special time of remembrance, be it Yule (pagan) or Christmas or whatever you prefer.

marty998

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2017, 02:02:36 PM »
Christmas is just another day in Central Australia.

Not a reindeer in sight (or TV screen shoving consumerist crap down your eyeballs)

If you can withstand the heat, then this is the perfect place for you guys.

Merry Christmas x

wenchsenior

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2017, 02:05:48 PM »
Christmas is just another day in Central Australia.

Not a reindeer in sight (or TV screen shoving consumerist crap down your eyeballs)

If you can withstand the heat, then this is the perfect place for you guys.

Merry Christmas x

Now, THAT would be good Xmas for me!  I loved my one trip to Australia.

Llewellyn2006

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2017, 06:36:21 PM »
And another thing.  There's only two good xmas carols:

1. Kenny and Dolly - Once Upon a Christmas
2. Maria Carey - whatever that song is that she sang and gets trotted out every year (I bet she gets tons of royalties for that one every year this time - good career move on her part)

And I get an excuse to watch Die Hard every year.  That's good.

The only Xmas song I like is Fuck Christmas by Eric Idle and the only Xmas movie I'll tolerate is Bad Santa. Probably tells you everything you need to know about how I feel about it!!

Cranky

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2017, 06:53:34 PM »
Christmas is fun! I enjoy putting up lights at the darkest part of the year, I enjoy giving people presents, and I love to bake cookies.

We’re religious, and Christmas is not the biggest deal in the Christian year, but it’s still pretty meaningful. I’m happy to pick and choose the bits of Christmas I enjoy.

stachestache

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2017, 07:37:47 PM »
really enjoying this thread here..

NV Teacher

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2017, 07:57:15 PM »
I hate it too.  I’ve hated since I was a kid.  The worst part for me is the expectation that everyone is going to get together and have a grand wonderful time and everything is lovely.  I can take that for about two hours and then I have to remove myself and hide in the basement for the rest of the day.

MrsPete

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2017, 08:38:18 PM »
So, if you hate Christmas because of the commercialism, why not just decide what portions you'll accept /choose to participate in ... and reject the other parts?  It's really not that hard.

ketchup

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2017, 08:40:18 PM »
Another scrooge checking in here.  The consumerism and other related nonsense wouldn't be so bad if it was contained even to December (we had neighbors putting up lights right after Halloween...).  Hearing the music in the grocery store drives me crazy.  Atheist household so the religious angle means nothing to me (even though the Christians stole it from the pagans anyway).  No kids so no Santa bullshit required.  I don't feel obligated to give or receive any gifts barring usually my sister (and she's easy: books).

I don't like Christmas but I've at least made it mostly a non-issue in my life.  GF and I will usually drive up to my mom's house for dinner to catch up with family and pretend to enjoy the food, and that's basically it.

shelivesthedream

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #60 on: December 24, 2017, 09:38:14 PM »
So, if you hate Christmas because of the commercialism, why not just decide what portions you'll accept /choose to participate in ... and reject the other parts?  It's really not that hard.

Can confirm. You don't HAVE to do anything. Captain Awkward is also an excellent resource for dealing with family "But it's Christmas!" whining.

Bateaux

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2017, 10:25:55 PM »
I'm going to be working and making double time on Christmas day.   Add it all up, pension, 401k match, double time for a 12 hour shift.  Almost $1000 gross pay.  Suck it Santa.

Monocle Money Mouth

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #62 on: December 25, 2017, 03:20:33 AM »
I’m over Christmas. It was fun as a kid when you got the toys you were coveting and a couple of weeks off from school. As an adult, you just get to foot the bill for gifts and try to fit family obligations in to your work schedule. If you are an introvert or don’t like your family, having forced interaction with them is just painful. You just spent a day off doing stuff you don’t enjoy with people you don’t like.

I’d rather just spend Christmas as a normal day off. Instead, I’ll be at my in-laws trying to make conversation with people that don’t know how to have one :(

Hula Hoop

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #63 on: December 25, 2017, 04:57:21 AM »
I'm visiting family for Christmas this year and the consumerism of my extended family is scary.  My elderly mother was freaking out on Christmas Eve because she has a bad knee so was unable to do as much Christmas shopping this year and didn't have presents for various relatives.  I tried to tell her that they wouldn't care but, unfortunately, in my family, this just isn't true.  My kids were also showered in gifts in a way that I don't think is healthy.  Nothing expensive but just tons and tons of small gifts.  More stuff for us to organize and step on when they're left on the floor - great.

Shane

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #64 on: December 25, 2017, 05:20:38 AM »
You guys who hate Christmas should move to New Zealand! You might like it better here. There seems to be a lot less hype surrounding Christmas in NZ than in the US. Right now, we're in Wellington, and every day we walk miles around the city. I've only seen one house that I can remember, so far, that had any Christmas decorations on it, and that was only a piece of tinsel in the front window and a wreath on the door. Christmas really does seem to be a lot more laid back here...

jim555

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #65 on: December 25, 2017, 06:04:12 AM »
Christmas is not mentioned in the Bible.  Man made holiday.  Why not add Festivus?  Would be just as valid.

shelivesthedream

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #66 on: December 25, 2017, 06:25:45 AM »
Christmas is not mentioned in the Bible.  Man made holiday.  Why not add Festivus?  Would be just as valid.

Oh come on, that is a silly comment to make.

jim555

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #67 on: December 25, 2017, 06:35:40 AM »
The Puritans had it right.
"The Puritans in the Massachusetts Bay Colony went one step further and actually outlawed the celebration of Christmas. From 1659 to 1681, anyone caught celebrating Christmas in the colony would be fined five shillings."
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/opinion/the-puritan-war-on-christmas.html


Zamboni

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #68 on: December 25, 2017, 06:50:24 AM »
Oh, kindred spirits! Five shillings was a big fine back in the day! This is probably the only thing I have in common with the Puritans.

I tell people that I am allergic to Christmas. Works out nicely since I do have some weird December allergies that make my nose run.

My dog is excited about it. She even looks kind of like the Grinch's dog. She must have some fond Christmas memories from before she landed at the shelter for me to adopt her, so that kind of warms my heart. Christmas like in "Little House in the Big Woods" works for me. Hang out by a big fire, one peppermint stick each, and a doll for the smallest child.

But the rest of it? Bah! My kids know that it will be low key here. If they want a materialistic binge of absurdity, well then that is what grandma's (ex in-laws) house apparently is for but I won't be joining them for that mayhem. Long ago I told her "Everything you buy them has to stay at your house. It's not coming home with us." She didn't believe me . . . her mistake, because I'm a bitch with firm boundaries and I mean what I say.

It is mostly the season of allergy and endurance for me.

Plina

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #69 on: December 25, 2017, 07:02:04 AM »
Every year my parents (mom) nag me to death for what my wife wants for xmas and they nag her to death for what I want for xmas.  Every year I tell her not to get anything, every year she ignores me.  Every year I'll ask my dad what my mom wants and he never gives me any ideas.  I live 600mi away from them and see them once every year or so...I have no idea what they want and they have no idea what I want.  If either my wife or I want anything we just buy it ourselves when we want it.  We don't need presents.  When the boomers kick the bucket I think it'll be a big relief this time of year.  No more guilt trips about not flying home for xmas.


Just tell them something you would buy anyway or wouldnt buy yourself then you get rid of the nagging. This year I got a frying plan and gloves from my parents as well as a gift card for a face treatment and underwear shop. My father gave money. Over the years i have turned them around from giving random gifts to asking me what I want. Then I can get something that I would buy anyway and they are happy because they can give gifts. A win-win because they refuse to stop buying.

thisisjeopardy

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #70 on: December 25, 2017, 09:49:10 AM »
Sitting alone downstairs in the bedroom in the dark with the fireplace on while the in laws and wife are having a great time. If I get asked to pose for one more God damned photo I'm going to lose it.

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farmer

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #71 on: December 25, 2017, 10:30:09 AM »
The consumerism is a distraction.
Focus on the real reason for the holiday.
Jesus.

No, sorry. Biblical and historical scholarship points to Nimrod, son of Cush, grandson of Ham, great-grandson of Noah and Nimrod's mother-wife as contributing to this particular practice in ancient Babylon. It's a Babylonian fertility and feast day, just like Easter. It's pagan sun worship, plain and simple - and has absolutely nothing to do with Yeshua the Messiah, our redeemer in blood and the divine son of HaShem as spoken of in the New Testament, or related to following the Way. Saying otherwise misses the mark, as it is sin.

There's plenty of evidence pointing to an early fall birth for Messiah, fulfilling a feast day of HaShem right around Yom Tov (Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur/Sukkot). Here's the thing, though, pagans celebrated birthdays from antiquity, as it's a practice rooted in astrology... so outside of academic interests in confirming Yeshua as being the Messiah through fulfillment of prophecy and feast days, it doesn't matter. Celebrating a birth has nothing to do with the belief system we're called to follow as believers in Messiah, especially when it was His sacrifice on the execution stake during Passover that actually matters and sanctifies us.

Now, if you mean that "Jesus" as in Gad Zeus, the white dude with long hair and a beard with a halo around his head that most people blindly follow in modern Christianity that was picked up from Constantine and the Roman hijacking of the faith in 312 CE... their sun god sacrificed to with pig flesh on the altar in the Second Temple's Holy of Holies by Antiochus IV Epiphanes on the Winter Solstice, thus sparking the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, then yes! I suppose Gee-Zeus is the reason for the season!

This is the danger of the adversary, it's a lie sold and packaged as a truth that makes you feel good inside. You're just certain you're doing the right thing, but look at the company that we keep by observing the Winter Solstice with the rest of the world and all the symbology and practices attached to it. We're called to be in the world, but separate and not of the world, and to testify to the truth.... not to fictions that make us feel good. If we lie in direct opposition to the dates and seasons set forth in scripture, only to ignore His Word for the purpose in delighting in pagan orgies of celebrating the self, orgies that we were commanded not to partake in, what does that do to our testimony and claims of scriptural evidence to justify following after Messiah?

I'll tell you what it does, it compromises it.

Why? Because we've mixed the Holy with the profane, like cross-breeding sheep with goats. The end result is either a still birth or sterile offspring. Our faith ceases to have any bearing on reality, and everything to do with fables, fairy tales and other children's fictions. Souls are on the line, our own included. Do you want to be responsible for showing someone the truth about Sheol/Hell and the need for Messiah, and in doing so wind up giving them a religion that still leaves their soul potentially lost to eternity in the Lake of Fire?

The worst part is, all the "great" things that Christians claim are so valuable about the season? The family and fellowship and generosity and whatnot? These are things that we should be doing in our daily walks, not once a year. This date would have no special hold in their hearts if they were actually practicing and walking out the faith they profess, as it would just become another day.

Here's the thing, friend. Truth is truth, and we're judged by what we do with that truth when we come to it. This is the truth, and it's not hard to find anymore... so, please, if you have any doubts, do due diligence yourself and start with the very scripture followers of Jesus are supposed to uphold as being truthful and right, but don't ignore it. In the end, you've got to make a choice with this knowledge. Do you choose to follow Messiah, start your own Maccabean revolt to repurify the temple inside you, reveal His glory as the true Lion of Judah, and put away the abominations of your forefathers to cling to His truth? Or do you cling to the ways of man, the ways of your forefathers, and double down on your practices, thus creating your very own abomination of desolation within your heart?

We are called to flee from sin and idolatry, and the 25th of December has both written all over it in spades. Out of a deep love for HaShem/Yeshua and concern for my brothers and sisters and for the lives of those we touch, let me urge you and anyone else here who claims Messiah to cleave to Him and to the truth for the sake of your own testimony.
If you're going to take a legalistic view on it then by all means - you shouldn't be celebrating it.
Jesus came to do away from the laws and religious legalism.
We are saved by grace.  I think that's worth celebrating every day.
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—  not by works, so that no one can boast."
I pursue daily relationship with Christ. That doesn't happen just by going to church once a week or celebrating a "holiday" and pretending to be "holy" once a year.
I use the holiday to share the good news.

partgypsy

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2017, 11:06:51 AM »
Oh, kindred spirits! Five shillings was a big fine back in the day! This is probably the only thing I have in common with the Puritans.

I tell people that I am allergic to Christmas. Works out nicely since I do have some weird December allergies that make my nose run.

My dog is excited about it. She even looks kind of like the Grinch's dog. She must have some fond Christmas memories from before she landed at the shelter for me to adopt her, so that kind of warms my heart. Christmas like in "Little House in the Big Woods" works for me. Hang out by a big fire, one peppermint stick each, and a doll for the smallest child.

But the rest of it? Bah! My kids know that it will be low key here. If they want a materialistic binge of absurdity, well then that is what grandma's (ex in-laws) house apparently is for but I won't be joining them for that mayhem. Long ago I told her "Everything you buy them has to stay at your house. It's not coming home with us." She didn't believe me . . . her mistake, because I'm a bitch with firm boundaries and I mean what I say.

It is mostly the season of allergy and endurance for me.

There were one or two Christmases, we read excerpts from the little house on the prarie series, to get a taste of what their Christmas was like. How they would plan ahead to be making secretly, gifts for each other. And the father getting lost in the snow and eating the Christmas candy. I know I had some bad Christmases, in part because I love Christmas, and my ex, did not. And there were disappointments in me working hard to make a a good Christmas, and him doing almost nothing (not even getting stuff for his own kids, or participating in anything and verbally pooping on it) and it would crush me. We don't live together anymore, I am seeing someone of a different faith who doesn't celebrate Christmas and it is SO Much Better.

Like others said, if you don't like Christmas, don't be an ass and ruin it for others for no good reason. And 2nd, for me at least just as important is me giving up unrealistic expectations of Christmas. The simpler it is, the better. For me the non-negotiables is getting a tree with the kids, decorating the tree together, for me getting gifts (OK, OK, something I enjoy), time off, good food, making cookies with the kids.  anyways I apologize because realize this is a place for complaining about Xmas and I'm ruining it for you. carry on
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 12:21:13 PM by partgypsy »

dilinger

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #73 on: December 25, 2017, 12:46:04 PM »
Protip: avoid (most of) the christmas nonsense by working from home and having a jewish spouse.

Daley

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #74 on: December 25, 2017, 12:51:58 PM »
If you're going to take a legalistic view on it then by all means - you shouldn't be celebrating it.

Stating the objective truth about our faith, the nature and roots of Christmas, and cautioning yourself and others against participation in idolatry is legalism?

Yes, we are saved by His Grace, but let us not forget 1 Corinthians 10 and Galatians 5.

1 Corinthians 10:23 (NASB): All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.

Galatians 5:19-24 (NASB): Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Jesus came to do away from the laws and religious legalism.

Fulfill is not the same as Abolish or "do away", and you would be wise not to confuse the two. Hypergrace isn't scriptural, and Ephesians 5 comes to mind.

Ephesians 5:6-10 (NASB): Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them; for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light (for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.

Further, isn't defending the practice of Christmas by Christians the very sort of replacement religious legalism you're railing against in that statement by tearing down observance of HaShem's appointed feasts as not needing to be observed, but Christmas, a pagan holiday, can be?

Who are we truly serving when we attach our testimony to and present a sun god as our Messiah? Is this concept profitable? Does this edify?

I don't disagree with utilizing this date to lead others to Messiah, but clinging to the modern Christian narrative and practices attached to the phrase, "Jesus is the reason for the season," impeaches our witness to the nations when even they know that it is not. Let us be sure that we are serving the true Messiah in our deeds and actions, and not a false Christ.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 12:54:46 PM by Daley »

Carrie

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #75 on: December 25, 2017, 01:18:30 PM »
I don't enjoy Christmas because my mom took the exact view as Daley, and I was taught from a young age (maybe 10 or 11)that those who celebrate the holiday are idolators. Even before that we weren't into Santa or other make believe fun things. In a way those beliefs ruined all holidays for me.
I wasn't allowed to go play with my cousins or see my grandparents on Christmas because there was a tree, and people might wish me a Merry Christmas (and I wasn't allowed to return the greeting).

Both of my in laws are dead, as well as all grandparents, so we just have a quiet holiday at home with our kids. No visiting other extended family, and no gifts exchanged (except what we give our own kids), it's just a nice quiet day. I dislike the money we've spent, but at least we can limit that to quality toys/activities/books, and only buy what we want our kids to have.

Happy Monday, fellow haters!

albijaji

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #76 on: December 25, 2017, 01:57:48 PM »
I'm going to be working and making double time on Christmas day.   Add it all up, pension, 401k match, double time for a 12 hour shift.  Almost $1000 gross pay.  Suck it Santa.

haha.. my hubby calls, he got mandatory overtime, i was all mad and then it dawned on me-
not the worst day to do overtime.
we do european christmas anyways (christmas eve)
we just had to do santa in the am (for grammies sake) she likes her christmas
and the presents were not overload, but i never know how well my thrift store presents are received ?!
if i did not have kids, i dont think we would even do a tree..

I'm a red panda

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #77 on: December 25, 2017, 03:19:34 PM »
I wish I had the option to work today. Christmas just makes me sad. I don't go volunteer today (I do other days) because I don't want to make other people sad.  All I can think of is what Christmas would be like if my son was alive. I wonder if I'll enjoy Christmas when my daughter is old enough to understand it.  I'm not even really sure how to celebrate it for her.  As a kid it was mounds of presents, tons of decorations and tons of food. I'm not a SAHM, so I don't know how to fit all that in. The idea of buying as many presents as I received as a kid makes me ill (I had 12 sets of aunts and uncles, my daughter has 3.) Even my Mom has said looking back she wished she saved our Christmas money instead of buying things "from" the aunts/uncles.

Mostly though, Christmas and Mother's Day will never be a happy time. Any day that is all about family, especially with a focus on kids just reminds me one of mine didn't make it.

Bateaux

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #78 on: December 25, 2017, 04:31:28 PM »
I wonder if introverts like Xmas less than extroverts?  All this talk about getting together with family has me even more stressed out than mindless consumerism. Frankly I'd rather look at the latest 12Z GFS ensembles.

What about 0Z GFS ensembles.   No love there?

big_owl

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2017, 05:25:41 PM »
I wonder if introverts like Xmas less than extroverts?  All this talk about getting together with family has me even more stressed out than mindless consumerism. Frankly I'd rather look at the latest 12Z GFS ensembles.

What about 0Z GFS ensembles.   No love there?

They're all trending the snow south of me now.  I hate everything. 

luciep

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2017, 05:39:22 PM »
I am not fond of Christmas either. Thank you for starting this thread. I feel less alone.

The only part I like is the family gathering and the meal sharing (usually with some delicious food involved).

I hate having to lie to my boyfriend's daughter about Santa and the freaking Elf on the Shelf. It is ridiculous to have to move this stupid Elf every day. The worst part is all the candies and chocolate that kids get for free everywhere they go. Then you have to explain to them why it is not good to eat every single candy at once.

I hate all the consumerism involved. I always tell people I don't want any present. Especially when I travel to France, I don't want to carry a bunch of useless stuff in my bag (and I don't, I usually end up throwing stuff away before I get back on the plane). But people can not prevent themselves from buying presents. They are pressured. They feel awkward if they don't have a gift. Then I end up feeling awkward because they bought me a present when I said I didn't want anything, and I don't have any present for them.

I hate all the wrapping (why can't we use old newspapers?) and the plastic waste.

Oh and I forgot the mind numbing Christmas music: at the grocery store, at the eye doctor, when you are on hold on the phone. Makes you want to become a hermit.

Cpa Cat

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2017, 06:14:29 PM »
And then there's my sister.  She pops out kids like a pez dispenser so between xmas and birthdays I'm out easily $1k/yr.  I don't even remember all their names, I have outlook calendars to remind me of bdays. 

Ahahaha. Like a pez dispenser. My SIL is one of those, too.

Today at Xmas, I had a very real couple of moments of panic because I thought I had forgotten one of them. I didn't recognize one of the kids and kept wracking my brain to remember its name. But you can't actually ask out loud, "Who is that child?"

In the end, it turned out that they had cut the girl's hair really short and I was counting her as an extra boy. I breathed a sigh of relief that I realized before I had to give them gifts.
--

I used to like Xmas, but my husband turns it into a giant chore. I'm responsible for buying all the gifts for every single one of his family members and if I try to wring the smallest amount of input from him, it turns into a giant whine-fest. But he's also never completely satisfied with what I've chosen. Then he grouses and grumbles for days about the fact that we have to travel for HIS family because he won't say no to them.

Despite the fact that we travel from out of town, a good portion of his family refuses to acknowledge that we're vegetarian so we have very limited food options when we arrive. It's a weekend of surviving off candy, potatoes and corn, so by the end of it we feel gross. I tried to convince him to skip church this year so we could hit the local Chinese restaurant before Christmas dinner, but he chickened out at the last minute and went to church. Yay for potatoes.

mozar

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »
I hate living in a Christian society where I have to use my pto for my religious holidays and Christians get a national day off that I'm forced to take off work. In addition to that if I don't use my pto between Christmas and new years I'm the weirdo at work who comes into the office and I have to have a "game plan" to prove that I'm actually working and not slacking off that week.

That's a lot more irritating than being constantly wished merry Christmas, endless christmas muzak in stores, mindless consumerism, etc. That stuff is easier to avoid though I did get wished merry christmas a bunch of times because i ran to the store on Christmas eve because i forgot something important.

BeautifulDay

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #83 on: December 25, 2017, 07:19:09 PM »
Mostly though, Christmas and Mother's Day will never be a happy time. Any day that is all about family, especially with a focus on kids just reminds me one of mine didn't make it.

So sorry for your loss.  Christmas is a hard for so many because of things like this.  Can be a very difficult time.

Personally I hate the consumerism.  Don't mind a few small gifts (like $10 limit).  But would be happy to see those go.

I love seeing family, but I stress over my parents' financial situation (poor finances of siblings bother me too but only because they ask my parents for $ to cover their mistakes).  They spend soooo much for my huge family.  Then never fails, someone ends up complaining about how stressed they are over money (parents or siblings).  I just want to scream that they could make different choices.

This year sis-in-law spends an evening telling me that they don't make enough to cover their lifestyle, they can't afford food, don't have any savings, can't afford to fix her car's breaks, etc. etc.  but when she was talking about her tv subscriptions (Hulu, etc.) said she couldn't choose just one but has all of them so she can watch a little of everything.  Ummm if I can't afford food, I can't afford even one tv subscription.

So I spend time as a ball of stress over other people's financial decisions.  But really the Christmas consumerism is a symptom of my familiy's lack of financial self control.  So if Christmas wasn't so tainted by this stress who knows, maybe I would like it. 

Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2017, 07:30:58 PM »
I hate living in a Christian society where I have to use my pto for my religious holidays and Christians get a national day off that I'm forced to take off work.

Hear, hear!

I used to work at a place that closed for the Christmas/New Years week every year (they said it was a paid week off in lieu of a bonus). I don't celebrate Christmas but it's great having a week off when all my friends and family do. I used to travel almost every year, flying or taking the train on Christmas when it wasn't busy. One year my boss called me in and asked if I could work that week, all alone, and keep the office open. Because I'm Jewish, so I wouldn't mind, right? No extra pay or anything, just an extra week of work that Christians don't have to do. Uhhhhh... how about no?

Daley

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2017, 07:38:43 PM »
I hate living in a Christian society where I have to use my pto for my religious holidays and Christians get a national day off that I'm forced to take off work.

Hear, hear!

I used to work at a place that closed for the Christmas/New Years week every year (they said it was a paid week off in lieu of a bonus). I don't celebrate Christmas but it's great having a week off when all my friends and family do. I used to travel almost every year, flying or taking the train on Christmas when it wasn't busy. One year my boss called me in and asked if I could work that week, all alone, and keep the office open. Because I'm Jewish, so I wouldn't mind, right? No extra pay or anything, just an extra week of work that Christians don't have to do. Uhhhhh... how about no?

Hey now, there's a lot of ignorant Christians out there who go through the motions without questioning the why or if it's even scriptural, and we're not the only group of people rooted in the Abrahamic faith guilty of this... but pin this frustration on the sin itself, not the sinners, and speak the truth in love.

Also remember, there's more than one follower of Messiah in this thread alone who are right there with you.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2017, 07:43:21 PM »
I hate living in a Christian society where I have to use my pto for my religious holidays and Christians get a national day off that I'm forced to take off work.

Hear, hear!

I used to work at a place that closed for the Christmas/New Years week every year (they said it was a paid week off in lieu of a bonus). I don't celebrate Christmas but it's great having a week off when all my friends and family do. I used to travel almost every year, flying or taking the train on Christmas when it wasn't busy. One year my boss called me in and asked if I could work that week, all alone, and keep the office open. Because I'm Jewish, so I wouldn't mind, right? No extra pay or anything, just an extra week of work that Christians don't have to do. Uhhhhh... how about no?

Hey now, there's a lot of ignorant Christians out there who go through the motions without questioning the why or if it's even scriptural, and we're not the only group of people rooted in the Abrahamic faith guilty of this... but pin this frustration on the sin itself, not the sinners, and speak the truth in love.

Did I say something in there that was painting with too broad a brush? I'm not sure what you're responding to.

Daley

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #87 on: December 25, 2017, 08:12:33 PM »
Did I say something in there that was painting with too broad a brush?

A bit. Not everyone who identifies with Christianity participates in Christmas, and those who do really shouldn't be if they're genuinely familiar with the literature they profess.

These two points, specifically:
I hate living in a Christian society where I have to use my pto for my religious holidays and Christians get a national day off that I'm forced to take off work.
One year my boss called me in and asked if I could work that week, all alone, and keep the office open. Because I'm Jewish, so I wouldn't mind, right? No extra pay or anything, just an extra week of work that Christians don't have to do.

I'm right there with you, I follow Messiah Yeshua (Jesus), but my wife and I have dealt with the same issues you and Mozar have. In fact, I'm thinking we've talked about this before a year or two back. You want to observe Pesach/Rosh Hashanah/Yom Kippur/Sukkot? PTO, or worse yet, no pay. You don't do Christmas? Go do all the crap we won't bother with. With some jobs, you don't want to be here on Saturday or past sunset Friday? We prefer open availability from you anyway, and though we have to say that your availability can't legally impact your job security and growth with this company, enjoy your part time schedule and watching the next 20 junior associates hired after you get promotions and pay raises before you do.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #88 on: December 25, 2017, 09:26:35 PM »
Did I say something in there that was painting with too broad a brush?

A bit. Not everyone who identifies with Christianity participates in Christmas

I didn't say they did... :-)  I just related a story that happened in my small office. I knew everyone there for years, and they all celebrated Christmas, and were raised in Christian households, except for me.

There was another year when the same boss gave every employee Christmas wreaths, except me, because I'm Jewish, so I got nothing. It's hard not to take it personally at some point... :-/

Daley

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #89 on: December 25, 2017, 09:40:12 PM »
I didn't say they did... :-)  I just related a story that happened in my small office. I knew everyone there for years, and they all celebrated Christmas, and were raised in Christian households, except for me.

There was another year when the same boss gave every employee Christmas wreaths, except me, because I'm Jewish, so I got nothing. It's hard not to take it personally at some point... :-/

My apologies, and I know what you mean (especially on that last part). I think most of it came from a reaction to repeatedly labeling Christmas a Christian holiday specifically. Like calling the United States a "Christian" nation. Nope on both counts, unless it's genuinely time to finally throw in the towel and admit that modern mainstream Christianity is nothing more than the revival of mystery Babylon on this continent. I'm not sure I'm ready to so thoroughly give up on my brothers and sisters that fully yet.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:42:56 PM by Daley »

Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #90 on: December 25, 2017, 10:18:05 PM »
I think it's hard to argue that Christmas isn't a Christian holiday... you could argue that it shouldn't be, but with over a billion Christians celebrating it as one... You might be outvoted :-) And we're not a Christian nation, but it often feels like one, and in some areas it might as well be one.

It's tough for you since you'll get stick from both sides - the Christians think you're Jewish and the Jewish folk think you're Christian. Not a lot of understanding from the general population. But here we can all be allies in the war on Christmas ;-)

Daley

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2017, 12:43:19 PM »
the Christians think you're Jewish and the Jewish folk think you're Christian. Not a lot of understanding from the general population.

It's worse than that with most Christians as I'm viewed as a Judaizer, and it's usually spit out as an epithet from the Armenian camp. "Filthy legalistic salvation-through-works monster, how dare you even read Torah and mention sin!" Even got a bit of that in this thread. Never mind that I make no bones about the way being faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, that there are no works we can do to save ourselves, though I cannot ignore the issue of free-will and its interplay with things and the need for walking in the faith daily. But then, I get in trouble with decent guys like Jim555 here who's a hard-line Calvinist and tries to be a staunch defender of the faith, because somehow the belief in free-will also makes me a works-based legalistic heretic despite the fact that I readily admit that the way is a faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, and that there are no works we can do to save ourselves. That said, I suspect if the two of us just spent an hour face-to-face about how I view free-will as being involved in the bigger picture, we would both grow in understanding, encounter a lot more common ground, and find far less difference in our understanding than the limits of the English vocabulary cause... but that's nothing more than optimistic conjecture at this point.

I've even had a friendly sit-down with a Conservative Jewish Rabbi a few month back that I've known for years, and she admitted to me that she's very well versed on the New Covenant, and that my understanding and practice of my faith reflected and echoed heavily on first-century proto-Christianity and Paul's teachings, and looks nothing like either modern Christianity or modern Rabbinic Judaism. She also mentioned during that conversation that modern Rabbinic Judiasm is works-based in that so long as you go through the motions of practicing Torah, it doesn't matter if you actually believe to gain salvation. I appreciated the candor, but at the time didn't have the heart to mention that Abraham came to faith before doing... just like what she said Paul taught. It had been such a pleasant and fluid conversation, and it just didn't seem like the right time given our schedules and the need for more time than we had to discuss that particular point without causing needless antagonism.

But here we can all be allies in the war on Christmas ;-)

I appreciate the sentiment and empathy, but it's worth noting that I have no stake in this particular culture war. I'm not here to take Christmas away from anyone, no matter how much I think the world would be a better place without it.

Though it is getting impossible to deny the bitter fruits of maturity from observing the Winter Solstice culturally by whatever label(s) we slap on it, and it breaks my heart to see those temporal and materialistic values so applied and ingrained that its mere cultural existence needlessly amplifies parents like Iowajes's grief in the loss of their children and gives them no hope; that it drives poor adolescents to steal in order to not feel left out and feel somehow selfish because they aren't materially rich enough to express their love in the "appropriately social way" to those they care about during "the season"; no matter how much its practice only fuels injustice and selfishness... even still, so long as its practice by others doesn't cross the line of blaspheming our Creator or devolve into ritual sacrifice of humans, I'm gonna let it slide so long as I don't get roped into it. Have your short-sighted fun. Doesn't mean I won't be an empathetic ear to others that suffer from it and point out why it's so awful and offer a better way, but HaShem judges the nations, not me.

And though I may share Carrie's mother's sentiments, I've apparently never been quite so hard-lined on the application as she was. The first thing that comes to my mind with others who claim to be a brother and sister who celebrate Christmas isn't, "Filthy idolator, leave me at once and never come around me again!" I instead try to speak the truth in love the best I can, and point out that it has nothing to do with the message that Yeshua/Jesus taught and that we're supposed to be professing. I don't believe all Christians who have celebrated Christmas are bound for the fires of Ghenna because they wanted to celebrate the dwelling of G-d among us, but I don't envy their teachers who perpetuate this nonsense and blindly ignore Sukkot in favor of an ancient Babylonian sun festival as an appropriate locus of that desire, either. We're called to encourage one another in righteousness and justice within our own community. We can't do that if we can't call a spade a spade. I've been there, I've done this hokey-pokey, got the t-shirt, and saw it turns yourself around to eternal death. What kind of brother in the faith am I if I stay silent on that point?

Hate the sin, not the sinner, and all that.

My apologies, but I felt like I really needed to get that out. Hope you all don't mind. May it be of benefit and encouragement to someone, anyone.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 12:51:38 PM by Daley »

Carrie

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2017, 12:51:51 PM »
It is definitely eye opening and enlightening when you are taught the true history of Christmas & Easter from a young age. It's not a bad thing to be set apart. It makes me chuckle to see die-die-hard Christians defend Christmas to such great lengths, when there are zero biblical references or commands to celebrate. There are many commands in scripture to celebrate Sabbath (sundown to sundown), but that is ignored by majority of Christians. Hypocrisy of all religions/ religious people has pretty much turned me into a cynical bitch.

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #93 on: December 26, 2017, 01:06:56 PM »
I'm Jewish, so my whole life Christmas has just been a free day off. My father and I used to go skiing on Christmas Day, knowing we'd have the slopes almost to ourselves. Yesterday my husband and I did a beautiful bike ride. It was so quiet.
I enjoy the colorful lights, the parties, and the festive feeling, even though I don't celebrate.

The only thing I really don't like? The endless freakin Christmas music. If I hear Jingle Bell Rock one more time there will be blood.

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #94 on: December 26, 2017, 02:04:17 PM »
The only thing I really don't like? The endless freakin Christmas music. If I hear Jingle Bell Rock one more time there will be blood.

I must not have left the house this year. I think I've heard two christmas carols all year.

Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #95 on: December 26, 2017, 02:08:31 PM »
The only thing I really don't like? The endless freakin Christmas music. If I hear Jingle Bell Rock one more time there will be blood.

I must not have left the house this year. I think I've heard two christmas carols all year.

If you go to places with piped-in music it's more-or-less constant exposure. I get it at the grocery store and the physical therapy gym.

jim555

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #96 on: December 26, 2017, 02:14:07 PM »
It's worse than that with most Christians as I'm viewed as a Judaizer, and it's usually spit out as an epithet from the Armenian camp. "Filthy legalistic salvation-through-works monster, how dare you even read Torah and mention sin!" Even got a bit of that in this thread. Never mind that I make no bones about the way being faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, that there are no works we can do to save ourselves, though I cannot ignore the issue of free-will and its interplay with things and the need for walking in the faith daily. But then, I get in trouble with decent guys like Jim555 here who's a hard-line Calvinist and tries to be a staunch defender of the faith, because somehow the belief in free-will also makes me a works-based legalistic heretic despite the fact that I readily admit that the way is a faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, and that there are no works we can do to save ourselves. That said, I suspect if the two of us just spent an hour face-to-face about how I view free-will as being involved in the bigger picture, we would both grow in understanding, encounter a lot more common ground, and find far less difference in our understanding than the limits of the English vocabulary cause... but that's nothing more than optimistic conjecture at this point.
Your position that free will synergisticly works with grace logically means that merit enters into the process of justification.  It means man can bring something to the table.  But that is impossible.  Sinners bring nothing, even their best efforts are a stench to a Holy God that hates all unrighteousness.  Anyone who gets the robes of pure righteousness gets them despite what they have done, not because they have done some meritorious acts.


Dollar Slice

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #97 on: December 26, 2017, 02:22:57 PM »
It's worse than that with most Christians as I'm viewed as a Judaizer, and it's usually spit out as an epithet from the Armenian camp. "Filthy legalistic salvation-through-works monster, how dare you even read Torah and mention sin!" Even got a bit of that in this thread. Never mind that I make no bones about the way being faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, that there are no works we can do to save ourselves, though I cannot ignore the issue of free-will and its interplay with things and the need for walking in the faith daily. But then, I get in trouble with decent guys like Jim555 here who's a hard-line Calvinist and tries to be a staunch defender of the faith, because somehow the belief in free-will also makes me a works-based legalistic heretic despite the fact that I readily admit that the way is a faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, and that there are no works we can do to save ourselves. That said, I suspect if the two of us just spent an hour face-to-face about how I view free-will as being involved in the bigger picture, we would both grow in understanding, encounter a lot more common ground, and find far less difference in our understanding than the limits of the English vocabulary cause... but that's nothing more than optimistic conjecture at this point.
Your position that free will synergisticly works with grace logically means that merit enters into the process of justification.  It means man can bring something to the table.  But that is impossible.  Sinners bring nothing, even their best efforts are a stench to a Holy God that hates all unrighteousness.  Anyone who gets the robes of pure righteousness gets them despite what they have done, not because they have done some meritorious acts.

He knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake!

Sorry, just trying to keep it on topic :-P

jim555

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #98 on: December 26, 2017, 02:34:27 PM »
It's worse than that with most Christians as I'm viewed as a Judaizer, and it's usually spit out as an epithet from the Armenian camp. "Filthy legalistic salvation-through-works monster, how dare you even read Torah and mention sin!" Even got a bit of that in this thread. Never mind that I make no bones about the way being faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, that there are no works we can do to save ourselves, though I cannot ignore the issue of free-will and its interplay with things and the need for walking in the faith daily. But then, I get in trouble with decent guys like Jim555 here who's a hard-line Calvinist and tries to be a staunch defender of the faith, because somehow the belief in free-will also makes me a works-based legalistic heretic despite the fact that I readily admit that the way is a faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, and that there are no works we can do to save ourselves. That said, I suspect if the two of us just spent an hour face-to-face about how I view free-will as being involved in the bigger picture, we would both grow in understanding, encounter a lot more common ground, and find far less difference in our understanding than the limits of the English vocabulary cause... but that's nothing more than optimistic conjecture at this point.
Your position that free will synergisticly works with grace logically means that merit enters into the process of justification.  It means man can bring something to the table.  But that is impossible.  Sinners bring nothing, even their best efforts are a stench to a Holy God that hates all unrighteousness.  Anyone who gets the robes of pure righteousness gets them despite what they have done, not because they have done some meritorious acts.

He knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake!

Sorry, just trying to keep it on topic :-P
Santa Claus is a falsehood.  Why would a Christian parent be teaching a falsehood to their children?  The worldly holiday Christmas is a pile of nonsense.  If the world embraces it you know it isn't Christian, since Christians will always be hated and despised.

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Re: I hate Christmas
« Reply #99 on: December 26, 2017, 02:47:18 PM »
It's worse than that with most Christians as I'm viewed as a Judaizer, and it's usually spit out as an epithet from the Armenian camp. "Filthy legalistic salvation-through-works monster, how dare you even read Torah and mention sin!" Even got a bit of that in this thread. Never mind that I make no bones about the way being faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, that there are no works we can do to save ourselves, though I cannot ignore the issue of free-will and its interplay with things and the need for walking in the faith daily. But then, I get in trouble with decent guys like Jim555 here who's a hard-line Calvinist and tries to be a staunch defender of the faith, because somehow the belief in free-will also makes me a works-based legalistic heretic despite the fact that I readily admit that the way is a faith-based and a salvation only by His grace situation, and that there are no works we can do to save ourselves. That said, I suspect if the two of us just spent an hour face-to-face about how I view free-will as being involved in the bigger picture, we would both grow in understanding, encounter a lot more common ground, and find far less difference in our understanding than the limits of the English vocabulary cause... but that's nothing more than optimistic conjecture at this point.
Your position that free will synergisticly works with grace logically means that merit enters into the process of justification.  It means man can bring something to the table.  But that is impossible.  Sinners bring nothing, even their best efforts are a stench to a Holy God that hates all unrighteousness.  Anyone who gets the robes of pure righteousness gets them despite what they have done, not because they have done some meritorious acts.

He knows when you've been bad or good, so be good for goodness' sake!

Sorry, just trying to keep it on topic :-P
Santa Claus is a falsehood.  Why would a Christian parent be teaching a falsehood to their children?  The worldly holiday Christmas is a pile of nonsense.  If the world embraces it you know it isn't Christian, since Christians will always be hated and despised.

You totally missed the tongue in cheek point there that the comment "He knows if you've been bad or good..." is a reference to your omnipresent God.