Author Topic: I'm getting laid off  (Read 16250 times)

LaineyAZ

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 211
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2019, 03:25:02 PM »
It's good news that you have some nibbles out there.  Maybe negotiate at least a week off between jobs?  I agree it would be great to have a breather before you jump into the new one.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2019, 03:51:15 PM »
Madison Heights - That's close to Detroit City.  Sounds like a GM thing.

Good thing these are fairly good times.  That Fundamentals of Engineering may help you some.  Just yesterday, I had a conversation with a couple of good electricians.  They both said that they treat engineers like sh*t in this country.  They know how much the engineers make and, of course, how much they make.  They make much more when you consider per diem and such.  Overall, their jobs seem more secure too.

Engineers can get stuck in a niche field.  If that little piece of the pie goes away for some reason, too bad.

I sure wouldn't feel any loyalty to that company.  It sounds like they aren't giving you anything more than what they may be legally obligated to.

Things will turn out OK for you.  You are working to FIRE.  Burn me once shame on you.  Burn me twice shame on me.  Get that FU money put together and get yourself some independence from these yahoos.


Enigma

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 470
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Clarksville, TN
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2019, 02:00:15 PM »
I was looking forward to the "summer of nacho", but I suppose I will settle for gainful employment as well.
If you find a better job, it wouldn’t hurt to ask them for a couple of weeks off for a summer vacation.  Plus you will have the severance pay even if it is unpaid vacation.  My company hired a new guy on Month the 8th of April.  He went on a planned vacation the week after and just got back.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2019, 07:37:23 AM »
I was looking forward to the "summer of nacho", but I suppose I will settle for gainful employment as well.
If you find a better job, it wouldn’t hurt to ask them for a couple of weeks off for a summer vacation.  Plus you will have the severance pay even if it is unpaid vacation.  My company hired a new guy on Month the 8th of April.  He went on a planned vacation the week after and just got back.

That's the plan, although I might have to take what I can get.  I'd love to take like a month off.  I just don't want to take the time off then start looking, I'd like to secure something asap.

I have 2 confirmed interview times, and I'm expecting a call from 2 other firms.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27688
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2019, 07:43:35 AM »
That's nice, especially while the job hunt continues.

It very well could be abrupt when it does come.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Indio

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 323
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #55 on: April 30, 2019, 07:50:19 AM »


That's the plan, although I might have to take what I can get.  I'd love to take like a month off.  I just don't want to take the time off then start looking, I'd like to secure something asap.

I have 2 confirmed interview times, and I'm expecting a call from 2 other firms.
[/quote]

Keep in  mind that all of your colleagues (possibly with similar skills?) are going to be out looking for jobs at the same time so finding something before the severance and health insurance starts/ends will work to your advantage. You could always negotiate start date,  but having a confirmed offer before everyone else starts looking in earnest will help you.

Is your company going to offer outplacement assistance? Getting a resume review is always useful.


frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2019, 11:23:37 AM »
Keep in  mind that all of your colleagues (possibly with similar skills?) are going to be out looking for jobs at the same time so finding something before the severance and health insurance starts/ends will work to your advantage. You could always negotiate start date,  but having a confirmed offer before everyone else starts looking in earnest will help you.

Is your company going to offer outplacement assistance? Getting a resume review is always useful.

There was only 1 other engineer and he has a new position at another plant.  There is only 1 other person in the environmental department, and he's not an engineer and our skills don't really overlap. 

The company is offering some services, but I think they are mostly aimed at helping the uneducated and unskilled workers.  I am going to an interview tomorrow that was set up as part of a job placement for all the displaced people here.  As far as I know I am the only actual engineer, and they have 2 engineering positions open. I'm sure people outside of the organization will be applying as well though. Don't know if I even want to work there, but it will be good interview experience.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13346
  • Age: 38
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2019, 02:32:45 PM »
it will be good interview experience.

Don't underestimate the importance of this.  I hate interviewing, and it often takes me three or four interviews before I start to remember to not make a fool of myself.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2019, 06:45:22 PM »
You may wish to get your name into these contract outfits, i.e. Randstadt, Aerotech, etc.  (headhunters) They make money placing people.  In a way they are on your side and in a way they aren't.  They want you to find a job.  If they find you a job, it is a paycheck to them.

They say rich people get rich by OPM (Other People's Money).  Money is time.  Headhunter's time could help you to find work.  It's a little like passive investing.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2019, 04:10:28 PM »
it will be good interview experience.

Don't underestimate the importance of this.  I hate interviewing, and it often takes me three or four interviews before I start to remember to not make a fool of myself.

I've not been on many interviews. I've actually never interviewed anywhere without being offered a job.  Today may be a first.  They want to hire me at entry level. I was kind of perplexed because the place is a dirty shit hole and they seem to want an engineer with 13 years experience and my EIT to take an entry level position at $50k.  They had a pretty large range of salaries on the posted job and even the bottom end was no where near $50k.  I feel like that place is not off to a great start with me.

Edit: after further review the position she was talking about did have a bottom end around $50k.  The high end was $116k.  Seems like too large of a range to me.  The other one had a narrower, but still large salary band. 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 06:38:06 PM by frugalnacho »

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2019, 06:49:41 PM »
Uuuuh,....you might want to trim that mustache a bit before too many interviews.

Hargrove

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 716
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2019, 09:38:00 PM »
I've heard many employers, desperate for computer technician employees, have no clue what they're asking for and, consequently, no clue what to pay. It wouldn't shock me if some engineers dealt with it, too.

If the company's bottom range was around what they offered you, I don't think it's even worth pointing out the qualities that make you better than "the most barely acceptable candidate" - it boils down to they're looking for a ridiculous deal, and are you it?

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2019, 09:42:25 PM »
Ha.  I typically shave about once a month, and get a hair cut about every 6 months for some special occasion.  I got a hair cut and shaved this weekend, and even reshaved this morning so I'd look decent.

Got 2 more interviews next week.  One I applied to online, and listed 100k as desired salary and they emailed me the next day to schedule an interview, so that sounds pretty promising.  Also coincidentally my neighbor is in the same general field as me (environmental) and happens to work at that office - I did not know where he worked until after I mentioned I had a job interview.  Kind of funny in a weird way.  Maybe we could car pool?

The other interview is from a contractor I worked with at my current job.  He performs the job that I did for 12 years before I left to start my current position.  He liked working with me and needs people with my skill set, so has been trying to get me since he heard the news about the lay off.  I don't really want to get back into that work (lots of travel and time away from home), but I suppose I will hear them out and see what they have to offer.  I suppose I can deal with it if it is lucrative and can get me to FIRE in 5 years or less.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2019, 10:08:53 PM »
I've heard many employers, desperate for computer technician employees, have no clue what they're asking for and, consequently, no clue what to pay. It wouldn't shock me if some engineers dealt with it, too.

If the company's bottom range was around what they offered you, I don't think it's even worth pointing out the qualities that make you better than "the most barely acceptable candidate" - it boils down to they're looking for a ridiculous deal, and are you it?

The person I interviewed with wasn't an engineer and didn't seem to know anything on the technical side.  She had a list of super specific questions, and I didn't know most of them.  I'm an expert in air quality, and not water (which is what this job was for).  Almost all of my water experience is on the education and theoretical side, and not so much in the real world.  So I wasn't expecting to jump right in and be managing projects or anything, but I also feel I am a little more qualified than "the most barely acceptable candidate" and could bring something to the organization.  Maybe the person who actually does the hiring will look my resume over and want to bring me in for another interview, or make me an offer above the absolute bottom of the range.  But maybe not.  I was expecting something between the minimum and where I'm at now.

I'm also shocked that they have such a large salary band for one title.  One person is going to be paid $50k, and another might be paid $116k?  That's a huge discrepancy and seems like maybe the position could be split into some more specific job titles with a narrower band of responsibilities and pay.  I also feel that if I took an entry level pay position that my chances of increasing my salary back up to what it is now will never happen with this organization. 

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2019, 02:20:07 PM »
I've heard many employers, desperate for computer technician employees, have no clue what they're asking for and, consequently, no clue what to pay. It wouldn't shock me if some engineers dealt with it, too.

If the company's bottom range was around what they offered you, I don't think it's even worth pointing out the qualities that make you better than "the most barely acceptable candidate" - it boils down to they're looking for a ridiculous deal, and are you it?

The person I interviewed with wasn't an engineer and didn't seem to know anything on the technical side.  She had a list of super specific questions, and I didn't know most of them.  I'm an expert in air quality, and not water (which is what this job was for).  Almost all of my water experience is on the education and theoretical side, and not so much in the real world.  So I wasn't expecting to jump right in and be managing projects or anything, but I also feel I am a little more qualified than "the most barely acceptable candidate" and could bring something to the organization.  Maybe the person who actually does the hiring will look my resume over and want to bring me in for another interview, or make me an offer above the absolute bottom of the range.  But maybe not.  I was expecting something between the minimum and where I'm at now.

I'm also shocked that they have such a large salary band for one title.  One person is going to be paid $50k, and another might be paid $116k?  That's a huge discrepancy and seems like maybe the position could be split into some more specific job titles with a narrower band of responsibilities and pay.  I also feel that if I took an entry level pay position that my chances of increasing my salary back up to what it is now will never happen with this organization.

Yes, this is very true.  I would never take an entry level job.  For crying out loud, I've been working as an engineer since 1992!

couponvan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5793
  • Location: VA
    • My journal
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2019, 06:56:12 PM »
I'm just chiming in on the measly $1K 401(k) contribution.  If they're laying off more than 20% of the 401(k) plan participants, this is a partial plan termination where they are required to vest the participants 100%. 
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/retirement-plan-faqs-regarding-partial-plan-termination

If their HR stinks, they should be reported to the DOL to determine whether a partial plan termination did in fact exist.  Also, if it's been a pattern an practice, the 20% can be amassed over a few year, vs. just one year. I hope this all works out for you and you end up in an even better position after the chaos.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2019, 06:48:42 PM »
I applied to another consulting position online and put $100k as my expected salary.  Got called in for an interview straight away, and everything went great.  I liked them, they liked me.  Got a call back from the HR to discuss compensation.  They said that's too high for them, they can't justify paying me that salary with their billing rates.  They really like me and want me to come back for another interview, and it sounds like they definitely want to make me an offer, if only we could agree on compensation.  The HR lady said they want to make me an offer somewhere between $70-80k, but 80k would be the absolute max they could offer me.   That's significantly less than I am making now, and slightly less than I was making at my previous job.  I told them I'd have to think about. 

So now I'm conflicted and unsure what to do.  I told her I'd get back to her by the end of the week.  I'm unsure if the $80k is the max starting point offer they could make, or the absolute top period, she was unclear about it. 

I think I can find something that pays more, but what if I'm wrong?  I'd hate to pass up an opportunity that is at the top of my current potential.*  But I'd also hate to settle for a job, then abandon it within a couple months because I found something paying 10-20% more.  But also why would they expect me to stick around long term if they offer me 20-30% less than my asking price? I was fulling prepared for them to offer lower, then we'd go back and forth and settle on an acceptable salary, but it's a lot lower than expected.


*I worked at a consulting firm for 12 years, but the company did a very specific subset (stack testing/emissions testing) of consulting and I don't want to get back into just doing that.  I'd like to expand into a larger role, but don't have a lot of direct experience doing other consulting work so that's why I think I might not be able to command a higher salary right now.  I worked as basically an environmental manager at a facility for the past 7 months, and if I could find another role similar to that I think I could get more, but I've been mostly applying to consulting firms as there are way more of those jobs available within commuting distance of my house.


Prairie Stash

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1763
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2019, 11:22:24 AM »
Your previous job sucked, its a bad dream. Your current job would be awesome if it wasn't laying you off. Neither of them matter, both are in the past.

If it was me I'd probably take it and continue looking for a few months. Then I'd get lazy and stop looking. After a few years I'd look at jumping, maybe not wait 12 years this time.

However, I assume that like Canada you are in probation for a certain number of months when switching jobs. During probation periods, no loyalty should be given to a company. People think of the probation period as the time a company can check you out, the opposite is also true. Try them and if you love them, stick around.

How many years of work do you have left? would it be okay working at an awesome place for a bit longer vs. getting paid more and being miserable? I don't think this is a job you'll have full time for 10 years; possibly 5 and then part time for benefits? I was recently offered part time and coast for a year; unfortunately it was a year too late or I would have accepted.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2019, 01:03:16 PM »
Can you check online to see what people actually get paid there?

birdiegirl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2019, 03:31:32 PM »
How excited/interested are you in the job itself - aside from the money?  How would this position fit into your long term career plans? Do they have other bonuses/OT, etc. that could increase the total comp?

I was burned out and left my job a couple months ago and just accepted a FT consulting role at 30% less than my last job.   It certainly wasn't ideal but it should help me build up some parts of my resume that are lacking. It is generally 40hrs a week, so should allow for good work/life balance (I'll get  paid for any OT but clients generally don't want to pay it)

Since I'm not working right now, I figured it was worth taking even with the pay cut.  I'll give it a try and keep my eyes open for other roles that I might be interested in.  Could you do something similar?
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 03:33:21 PM by birdiegirl »

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2019, 07:07:07 PM »
The initial job wasn't too bad, I enjoyed it and I enjoyed the company culture.  It was when they sold to the larger firm and they tried to fuck me over that I didn't like it, and I ended up leaving about a year after that happened.  I think I have somewhere between 5-10 years left.  Hard to nail it down with so many variables.  How much will our spending increase with a kid? How much will it increase or decrease as we get older?  What will my salary be? $75k vs $95k is a pretty huge difference and I'll be saving $20k less per year.  I feel like I am racing to get to the finish line because having to deal with company acquisitions, and lay offs, company bullshit, and interviews is super stressful and I think that stress would be greatly eliminated if I had achieved lean FIRE.  Once we reach that I will likely continue to work to pad the stach so we can afford more luxury, like having a big vacation fund, paying for my sons college education, etc.  Or maybe continue to work part time for a little bit, if it's a low stress job, to pad the stach and keep benefits and transition into FIRE.

I'm not going to turn them down because I don't know what else I can get, but I have a lot of interested parties.  I was contacted by a recruiter for a position at a different consulting firm, for what sounds like a similar role, but maybe slightly more salary.   I also had another consulting firm contact me directly and wants to set up an interview, and that same contact gave me a couple of leads for environmental manager positions that I'm following up with. 

I checked online but the salaries listed are all over the map and I don't think they are reliable.

The position itself sounds pretty good, so does the company.  But maybe my opinion will change once I'm inside. It sounds like there is the potential for OT at straight time if I want it, but I don't know if I want to work any OT.  The whole idea of straight time OT seems like bullshit - they are providing me a whole bunch of expensive benefits along with my salary for the first 40 hours (health, dental, life insurance, HSA with company contribution, 401k w/match) for my total compensation, but if I work OT they aren't providing me with any additional benefits.  They are getting a sweet deal to only pay me straight time for OT.

I'm going back for a 2nd interview with the company next week.  I assume that the earliest they would present me with an offer could be immediately, and I would likely be able to request time to think about it until the following week, so hopefully I will have a better idea of what my other options are by that point and can make a more informed decision.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2019, 07:44:21 PM »
Engineers are considered a commodity in the United States.  You are but a cog in the machine.  I've been told that by some very smart people.

Here's something I was told by a very smart man just the other day.  If you go for top dollar, you will be one of the first to be let go.  However, you can use that top dollar during the free time you have between jobs.  If you take a bit less, the job may offer more stability for you.

I've been wondering if what the smart man said was true in the majority of situations.

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3078
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2019, 10:00:22 AM »
The position itself sounds pretty good, so does the company.  But maybe my opinion will change once I'm inside. It sounds like there is the potential for OT at straight time if I want it, but I don't know if I want to work any OT.  The whole idea of straight time OT seems like bullshit - they are providing me a whole bunch of expensive benefits along with my salary for the first 40 hours (health, dental, life insurance, HSA with company contribution, 401k w/match) for my total compensation, but if I work OT they aren't providing me with any additional benefits.  They are getting a sweet deal to only pay me straight time for OT.
On top of that, OT cuts into your already-scarce disposable time, so therefore it should be more valuable to *you* as well!

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2019, 10:04:40 AM »
Quote
The position itself sounds pretty good, so does the company.  But maybe my opinion will change once I'm inside. It sounds like there is the potential for OT at straight time if I want it, but I don't know if I want to work any OT.  The whole idea of straight time OT seems like bullshit - they are providing me a whole bunch of expensive benefits along with my salary for the first 40 hours (health, dental, life insurance, HSA with company contribution, 401k w/match) for my total compensation, but if I work OT they aren't providing me with any additional benefits.  They are getting a sweet deal to only pay me straight time for OT.

My husband gets this.  It's a sweet deal for the company, but also for him.  As an engineer, it's not uncommon to have busy times where you work overtime, or travel where you are working 12 hours a day.  He gets paid for that.

Plus he gets more put into his 401k.

eostache

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 206
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2019, 06:10:55 PM »
I just found out today that I can join in this thread. My job will be eliminated in 8 weeks, then I get 6 weeks severance pay. Already scoping out the UI benefits in my state. I'd only been at the job for a year, it was 1 year last week. Thankfully I have no debts, am comfortable on a shoestring budget, and have enough of a stash for over a year of expenses.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2019, 08:05:59 PM »
I just found out today that I can join in this thread. My job will be eliminated in 8 weeks, then I get 6 weeks severance pay. Already scoping out the UI benefits in my state. I'd only been at the job for a year, it was 1 year last week. Thankfully I have no debts, am comfortable on a shoestring budget, and have enough of a stash for over a year of expenses.

Bummer man, that sucks.  I am freaking out a bit just because I hate change, and I hate going through the interview process and not knowing where I am going to end up and how I am going to like it.  I can't imagine how much I'd be freaking out if I also had to worry about being able to pay my bills.

Although I did do something stupid this week.  I had $6,900 in my checking account, and another paycheck hitting my account on thursday or friday, so I transferred $5k into my savings account not realizing I had 3 large CC payments going through between monday and thursday.  2 of the payments went through, so now I have $1200 left in my account, and a $1600 payment coming out tomorrow.  I tried to transfer some cash back, but I don't know if it's going to make it in time.  I may have to adjust my payment to be less than full, then follow up and finish it when the money hits.  Sucks because I will get dinged for interest on that whole balance for that month just because I paid less than full by the due date, even though I will pay it in full by the next day and I have plenty of money to pay it, it's just tied up in my savings account!  Fuck, probably going to be like $10+ in interested for that month. Hopefully the transfer shows up in my checking tomorrow and I can just pay it off and not worry about it.  Stupid mistake.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2019, 08:35:59 PM »
Yeh!  That's another thing about engineering jobs.  Straight time when approved.  Many times free time to get the job done.

We used to say, "Feel free to work the weekend!"

Some places will give you comp time for the extra hours worked.  Good luck with that.

I hope you got your banking worked out.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27688
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2019, 07:46:54 AM »
Sounds like you'll make it to the beginning of June, Nacho?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2019, 08:48:58 AM »
Sounds like you'll make it to the beginning of June, Nacho?

No, May 27 is almost everyone's official last day.  Since that's a holiday, my actual last day of reporting to the office will be Friday May 24.  I should still be on the payroll until July 26 and my benefits will expire July 31.  I've been told that they could lay anyone off before the 27th, but if they want you to stay on after that date they have to notify you in writing with at least 1 weeks notice.  Since I never got any official notice, I'm assuming it's still the 27th.


urmie

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2019, 04:34:35 PM »
Can you check online to see what people actually get paid there?

I use Glassdoor.com. You can look up companies and then check the salaries tab to get an idea.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #80 on: May 22, 2019, 05:52:52 PM »
Can you check online to see what people actually get paid there?

I use Glassdoor.com. You can look up companies and then check the salaries tab to get an idea.
It's good for more than just that.  A few years ago, a friend of mine asked me if I knew about company X, because she'd gotten an offer.

I said "I dunno, but on glassdoor, they suck."

Glassdoor was right.  She maybe lasted a year before she had to quit to save her mental health.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27688
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2019, 09:16:59 AM »


Sounds like you'll make it to the beginning of June, Nacho?

No, May 27 is almost everyone's official last day.  Since that's a holiday, my actual last day of reporting to the office will be Friday May 24.  I should still be on the payroll until July 26 and my benefits will expire July 31.  I've been told that they could lay anyone off before the 27th, but if they want you to stay on after that date they have to notify you in writing with at least 1 weeks notice.  Since I never got any official notice, I'm assuming it's still the 27th.

Two days left then!

Any fun plans for the off time?
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2019, 09:23:27 AM »


Sounds like you'll make it to the beginning of June, Nacho?

No, May 27 is almost everyone's official last day.  Since that's a holiday, my actual last day of reporting to the office will be Friday May 24.  I should still be on the payroll until July 26 and my benefits will expire July 31.  I've been told that they could lay anyone off before the 27th, but if they want you to stay on after that date they have to notify you in writing with at least 1 weeks notice.  Since I never got any official notice, I'm assuming it's still the 27th.

Two days left then!

Any fun plans for the off time?

Interviewing?  Got an interview this afternoon, and another one tomorrow.  Probably keep that train rolling until I got another full time job lined up. 

In the mean time I am pursuing getting my PE license. 

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2019, 09:29:18 AM »
Got $5k severance, plus 60 days pay, plus my PTO paid.  I'll be getting a lump sum check for $29.8k next pay period and I'll have my benefits until July 31.

I asked about the 401k and partial plan termination.  I guess I'm on a different plan from the union guys. Also somehow my plan is not affected by the 20% layoff partial termination rule.  I'm not sure how that makes any sense, but I'm not sure there is anything I can do about it.  $1500 unvested I'll be forfeiting involuntarily.

Daniel

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 62
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2019, 09:40:19 AM »
That's a bummer about losing the matching, but that's a pretty nice severance check! Good luck on prepping for your PE, I know that's a tough hill to climb!

couponvan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5793
  • Location: VA
    • My journal
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2019, 10:42:36 AM »
Got $5k severance, plus 60 days pay, plus my PTO paid.  I'll be getting a lump sum check for $29.8k next pay period and I'll have my benefits until July 31.

I asked about the 401k and partial plan termination.  I guess I'm on a different plan from the union guys. Also somehow my plan is not affected by the 20% layoff partial termination rule.  I'm not sure how that makes any sense, but I'm not sure there is anything I can do about it.  $1500 unvested I'll be forfeiting involuntarily.

You can send an inquiry to the DOL contact in your area - the DOL would likely be interested in a company that forfeits a bunch of peoples' money if in fact it is subject to the partial plan termination.  There is a lookback feature for 401(k) plans if there have been layoffs in the past several years that are all part of the same occurrence.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/about-ebsa/ask-a-question/ask-ebsa

They generally respond within 2 business days...If no one brings it to the DOL's attention, you have a almost 0% chance of getting the $.  The HR people are usually not that knowledgeable about the specialized rules of plans. If you bring it to the DOL's attention, and it is in fact a partial plan termination, you could be making $1,500 back. I'd say it was worth the time to ask the question.

Dicey

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9959
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2019, 11:33:54 AM »
Got $5k severance, plus 60 days pay, plus my PTO paid.  I'll be getting a lump sum check for $29.8k next pay period and I'll have my benefits until July 31.

I asked about the 401k and partial plan termination.  I guess I'm on a different plan from the union guys. Also somehow my plan is not affected by the 20% layoff partial termination rule.  I'm not sure how that makes any sense, but I'm not sure there is anything I can do about it.  $1500 unvested I'll be forfeiting involuntarily.

You can send an inquiry to the DOL contact in your area - the DOL would likely be interested in a company that forfeits a bunch of peoples' money if in fact it is subject to the partial plan termination.  There is a lookback feature for 401(k) plans if there have been layoffs in the past several years that are all part of the same occurrence.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/about-ebsa/ask-a-question/ask-ebsa

They generally respond within 2 business days...If no one brings it to the DOL's attention, you have a almost 0% chance of getting the $.  The HR people are usually not that knowledgeable about the specialized rules of plans. If you bring it to the DOL's attention, and it is in fact a partial plan termination, you could be making $1,500 back. I'd say it was worth the time to ask the question.
This is great advice. Even if it doesn't work, a lump sum of $28.3k doesn't suck.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2019, 10:21:29 PM »
Got $5k severance, plus 60 days pay, plus my PTO paid.  I'll be getting a lump sum check for $29.8k next pay period and I'll have my benefits until July 31.

I asked about the 401k and partial plan termination.  I guess I'm on a different plan from the union guys. Also somehow my plan is not affected by the 20% layoff partial termination rule.  I'm not sure how that makes any sense, but I'm not sure there is anything I can do about it.  $1500 unvested I'll be forfeiting involuntarily.

You can send an inquiry to the DOL contact in your area - the DOL would likely be interested in a company that forfeits a bunch of peoples' money if in fact it is subject to the partial plan termination.  There is a lookback feature for 401(k) plans if there have been layoffs in the past several years that are all part of the same occurrence.

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ebsa/about-ebsa/ask-a-question/ask-ebsa

They generally respond within 2 business days...If no one brings it to the DOL's attention, you have a almost 0% chance of getting the $.  The HR people are usually not that knowledgeable about the specialized rules of plans. If you bring it to the DOL's attention, and it is in fact a partial plan termination, you could be making $1,500 back. I'd say it was worth the time to ask the question.

When I asked she had no idea and was not aware of the rule.  She said she'd check into it, then got back to me several hours later.  Hopefully she actually looked into and didn't just blow me off and lie about it.  Might be worth sending in an inquiry anyway.  They will probably know it's from me since I'm apparently the only one that has bothered to ask.

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #88 on: May 28, 2019, 11:08:35 PM »
Got a job offer for the EHS manager position at a medium sized company.  I'm expecting at least one other offer, but I don't think it's going to match this one.  $90k/yr with 3 weeks vacation. They also want me to start immediately, as in next Monday. I was really hoping to have some time off to relax and get shit done, and also study for the PE exam.  Guess I'll just jump right back in though.

Officially laid off Friday of holiday weekend, and have an offer letter in hand Tuesday morning.  Not too shabby I suppose.

Imma

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1742
  • Location: Europe
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #89 on: May 29, 2019, 12:25:10 AM »
Can't you just say you're available from September 1st? Would be nice to take the summer off knowing you've got a new job lined up.

Dicey

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9959
  • Age: 61
  • Location: NorCal
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #90 on: May 29, 2019, 02:30:26 AM »
Wow! That's a fine MPP indeed.

couponvan

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5793
  • Location: VA
    • My journal
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #91 on: May 29, 2019, 03:51:07 AM »
 Congratulations! You can easily tell them you cannot start until 6/8 or 6/15. Even if they want you yesterday, a week or two won’t pull the offer. You may not be able to take much vacation when you are the new person...

UnleashHell

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6109
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Florida
  • Chapter IV - A New ... er.. something
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #92 on: May 29, 2019, 04:16:15 AM »
so now your biggest problem might be in how to avoid all the tax you might have to pay through earning too much this year.
any major medical expenses you can burn, max the 401k etc etc....

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6533
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #93 on: May 29, 2019, 11:39:20 AM »
Got a job offer for the EHS manager position at a medium sized company.  I'm expecting at least one other offer, but I don't think it's going to match this one.  $90k/yr with 3 weeks vacation. They also want me to start immediately, as in next Monday. I was really hoping to have some time off to relax and get shit done, and also study for the PE exam.  Guess I'll just jump right back in though.

Officially laid off Friday of holiday weekend, and have an offer letter in hand Tuesday morning.  Not too shabby I suppose.
That's pretty sweet.
I'd ask to delay it a week. 
My last job change I only took 3 days off.  That was a mistake!

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 27688
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Traveling the World
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #94 on: May 29, 2019, 02:58:01 PM »
Congrats Nacho! :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

BicycleB

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Location: Live Music Capital of the World
  • Older than the internet, but not wiser... yet
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #95 on: May 29, 2019, 04:27:45 PM »
Well done, @frugalnacho! Happy for you (other than the rush).

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #96 on: May 29, 2019, 10:24:32 PM »
Got another offer today, but as expected it's for less.  Insurance would be a little cheaper, but the commute would be 10 miles longer and 10 minutes longer each way.  I'm going to turn it down, even though they told me a start date of July 22 which would be awesome.

The place I'm going has some reports due by July 1, so they need. Someone ASAP. I might be able to delay another week, but probably not much longer.

Yes I will have a MPP of earning too damn much money this year. 

I also have a problem that my benefits expire July 31 and my new benefits won't kick in until 90 days.  I'm going to ride it out with no insurance.  I should have 60 days after July 31 to retroactively opt in for cobra coverage,so I'm gonna see how it goes. If I need it I'll get it, but most likely we'll just go 4-5 weeks with no insurance and not schedule anything during that time.

Need2Save

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 245
  • Location: Maryland (USA)
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #97 on: May 31, 2019, 08:12:43 AM »
@frugalnacho congrats on the job offers and progress since you learned of this situation!

As @couponvan urged you, it's worth a call to the DOL if you think there is any chance that the employer laying you off has experienced over a 20% reduction (partial plan termination).  Obviously, it's the hard facts that matter (total number of employees there, termination rate this year and in prior years, number/% of employees who are being forced to forfeit match).  It's not unheard of for your HR rep to not know the ins and outs of what constitutes a partial plan termination, but it's a very real thing.  If you think your plant closing is a small portion of the larger company and there is no way the 20% threshold was therefore triggered, than I guess it's not worth the time. But if you are not sure - there is no harm in asking the DOL's benefits team to do some digging for you to hold the employer accountable.  I find that employers will respond in earnest when contacted by the DOL directly to avoid a big audit.

If you want to see the formula the company is supposed to use to determine if a partial plan termination has occured, go to this IRS page.
https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/partial-termination-of-plan

You are also within your rights as a plan participant to ask the company to prove to you (ala show you the math with the formula named above) that the plan has not indeed experienced a partial plan termination this year with this plant closing. It's also possible for them to tell you that they cannot determine if a partial plan termination will occur this year until all facts play out for terminations yet to be decided upon this year. In otherwords, perhaps a partial plan termination has not yet been triggered with this plant closing, but if other terminations occur between now and then end of the year, then they may trip that line.  Not knowing how large your overall company is and how many people are being laid off makes this hard to determine from the outside.

Good luck with the new job!

frugalnacho

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Madison Heights, Michigan
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2019, 07:02:27 PM »
Got $5k severance, plus 60 days pay, plus my PTO paid.  I'll be getting a lump sum check for $29.8k next pay period and I'll have my benefits until July 31.

I asked about the 401k and partial plan termination.  I guess I'm on a different plan from the union guys. Also somehow my plan is not affected by the 20% layoff partial termination rule.  I'm not sure how that makes any sense, but I'm not sure there is anything I can do about it.  $1500 unvested I'll be forfeiting involuntarily.

I thought I was going to get dinged big time on withholding for this check, but they actually split everything up.  I got my normal check, my $5k severance check, my PTO check, and my 60 days pay check all as separate direct deposits.  It looks like each one was considered individually for calculating withholding, so it ended up being far less than it otherwise would have been if it was a single lump sum.  Tomorrow morning I should have approximately one years worth of expenses in my checking account.

Definitely wish I had more time off. I haven't even gotten my entire garden in yet this year.

pecunia

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 990
Re: I'm getting laid off
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2019, 07:12:44 PM »


Definitely wish I had more time off. I haven't even gotten my entire garden in yet this year.

I was always told when a lot of OT rolled around to make it while you can.  Lately, I've begun to wonder.  I missed about 12 hours over the Memorial Day weekend and was definitely happier not being there.

The people who used to advise me on such matters would have said, "There will be many more years and many more gardens."  There are a lot of things beyond money.  Once the time is gone, you can't get it back.

At any rate, your new job should be fun for a while and maybe even offer more.