Author Topic: Husband doesn't want to retire early  (Read 15341 times)

startingout

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Husband doesn't want to retire early
« on: December 08, 2016, 09:16:55 PM »
My husband isn't interested in retiring early. I'm actually thinking about pushing back my retirement plans by 10 or more years just so we can be in the trenches together. Does this make any sense at all?

mx711yam

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2016, 09:28:26 PM »
My Dad has never shown any interest in retiring.

I wish I already was retired.

If he doesn't want to retire but you do, then retire.  You both get what you want.

SachaFiscal

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2016, 09:52:53 PM »
I'm planning on retiring at least 4 years before my husband. He's not too keen on retiring now because he really loves his job and also wants to save up some extra money to help pay for college for some family members. I'm not sure if he'I'll retire after that or keep working. I don't mind. I have a lot of things I want to do that he is not interested in so I can do those things while he is at work. I think we'all still be able to travel, just not for long periods of time. I may be able to travel with some of my friends to some places he isn't interested in going to. Overall I think it's going to work out. He is very supportive of me retiring so I don't think he'll feel bad or left out, but it may give him the motivation to do it sooner than her normally would have.

I think if you do retire earlier and your husband sees how much fun you are having, he may want to join you!

Shiernian

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2016, 12:37:39 AM »
I think this is a common issue and we've discussed this issue in our family too.
I would just suggest you both keep saving like you will retire at the same time in case your husband changes his mind. That way you keep all options open.

deborah

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2016, 01:20:57 AM »
Usually work gets one person down but not the other. Maybe the wife has had years as a SAHP, and really feels she is just starting to get somewhere, while the husband is in a rut and has horrible management. Quite a few couples here have had one retire well before the other - in fact it appears to be more normal here than both retiring at the same time - I'd say there would be 2 couples who retire at different times to every couple that retire together (at least).

Early retirement isn't mandatory - it is a decision you make to improve your happiness and what you get out of life. Everyone wants different things and is happy with different lives. However, if you don't retire together (or even if you do), there are significant changes in the dynamics of your life together - for instance, will you (as the one who retired first) be expected to do all the housework, and make life smoother for the unretired one?

pbkmaine

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2016, 02:41:37 AM »
If the money works, and you have good communication, I think you should do what you want to do and he should do what he wants to do.

ltt

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2016, 04:43:55 AM »
Mine really doesn't want to retire early either; says the 401k match is too good of a deal to pass up :)

patrickza

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2016, 06:51:03 AM »
My wife never even considered it until meeting me. She still wants to work, but wants a lot more time off since we've been going on adventures.

Giro

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2016, 07:15:12 AM »
My DH feels the same way.  He wants to work another 4 years even though I'm retiring in 2 years.  He wants to pad his pension....it's pennies added to his pension for working those extra years, but he is a greedy bastard.....I'm KIDDING.  He is a little more conservative and wants to have lots of money tp spend.  whatever.   I'm pretty sure he will change his tune when he sees me home everyday.   


hops

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2016, 07:28:06 AM »
If the money works, and you have good communication, I think you should do what you want to do and he should do what he wants to do.

+1. My soon-to-be-spouse loves her job the way I love the concept of early retirement, and thinks she'll want to work for as long as she can. I respect that. She's willing to compromise by adjusting her schedule at some point so we can take extended vacations, so we'll both get what we want.

startingout

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2016, 09:02:04 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies. Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

Roboturner

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2016, 09:04:11 AM »
My husband isn't interested in retiring early. I'm actually thinking about pushing back my retirement plans by 10 or more years just so we can be in the trenches together. Does this make any sense at all?

How old are you guys - or perhaps how many more working years?

I didn't think id want to retire but shifted completely to the "get me the fuck outta here" zone after reading MMM - people change when they think about it

Slow Dad

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2016, 09:11:37 AM »
Go with what makes you happy. If you find your job satisfying/rewarding/challenging (in a good way) and would be happy to continue working even after you had reached financial independence then there is no harm in this.

I'm just about at FI now, while my wife is talking about working for another 40 years!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2016, 09:47:35 AM »
FI is about choices. You COULD retire early. You don't have to.

That's what I'm shooting for. To be able to say 'eff this' when I feel like I want to.  Or to be okay if I ever can't work.  Not to leave my job.  I like my job.

BTDretire

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2016, 11:04:31 AM »
I am the husband and I am retiring in 22 days, it's not early by MMM standards, I'm 61.
My wife has zero interest in retiring, she is 5 years younger than myself.
 We are self employed, and she thinks she will just work more to make up for me*.
She only wants to hire someone for minimal hours, and thinks I'll do some work
when needed. I probably will. We are FI plus, and only 5 years to SS for me,
10 for her. We have it made, but I can't get her to retire.

*We are open 70 hrs a week plus 5 to 10 more hours, of business related
work. I don't think she can do it, she's stubborn.

Giro

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2016, 11:13:39 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies. Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

THIS!!

I've thought of this also.  So, we are both FI and can FIRE any time.  I choose to FIRE in 2 years and he chooses to stay at work.  If I'm home all day, all of the day to day crap is going to be put on me alone.  I didn't work these hours and save like a mad woman to be a housewife. 

FIRE Artist

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2016, 11:26:01 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies. Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

THIS!!

I've thought of this also.  So, we are both FI and can FIRE any time.  I choose to FIRE in 2 years and he chooses to stay at work.  If I'm home all day, all of the day to day crap is going to be put on me alone.  I didn't work these hours and save like a mad woman to be a housewife.

This is a really great point.  Perhaps the solution is outsourcing at least half of the work, since one person is continuing to work past FI, and continues to build up their stash, there should be no reason for frugality on that front if it allows both people to be happy.

Cpa Cat

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2016, 11:26:23 AM »
It's nice to be FI so that you feel the choice is truly yours.

I FIRE'd and then started a side job as a CPA, which is now a full time job. I don't need to work, but I like it. My job as a CPA post-FIRE is way better than my pre-FIRE job ever was.

I'll admit that the household chore thing comes into the equation. My husband helps out a lot more when I'm working. Also, having income coming in helps to justify extra expenses here and there to lighten the load - like a maid service every two weeks, ordering groceries to be delivered, and eating out a bit more. I'm sure a lot of people don't have this issue, but for me, the "housewife problem" was a real one.

tonysemail

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2016, 03:59:33 PM »
people change their minds all the time.
I think you should plan to retire early and see what happens.
maybe he'll come around as you're texting him from the beach with refreshment in hand

Secretly Saving

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2016, 04:14:44 PM »
Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

 

And that sums up EXACTLY why I am going back to work!

GreenSheep

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2016, 07:29:38 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised to see so many people who hate life's day-to-day chores. I love to cook, and I'm one of those weird people who actually enjoy grocery shopping. Most of our other shopping is done online. I don't enjoy cleaning, but it doesn't take very long, and I like the results. I hired a housekeeper for a year or two, and it was nice, but I found that I'd rather just keep the money and do it myself. (Also didn't like the awkwardness when she showed up to clean and I wasn't at work or otherwise occupied outside the home. Staying home and trying not to look like I was scrutinizing her work was awkward. Suddenly inventing a reason to go out was awkward.) And we really don't have any errands other than the occasional car repair, etc.

Back to the main topic: I plan to retire in (if all goes according to plan) 4 years, and he loves his job and doesn't really want to retire. What helps us is that he is naturally frugal, and we keep a lot of our expenses separate anyway. So we still have fun saving money even though we don't have exactly the same goal. I think he'll eventually come around to the idea of RE when he sees how much fun I'm having! But I'm not living my life counting on that. There are still plenty of things we'll enjoy doing together when he's not at work.

Metta

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2016, 07:42:59 PM »
Wow, I'm surprised to see so many people who hate life's day-to-day chores. I love to cook, and I'm one of those weird people who actually enjoy grocery shopping. Most of our other shopping is done online. I don't enjoy cleaning, but it doesn't take very long, and I like the results.

This is more or less me. I love cooking, gardening, grocery shopping, and pretty much anything connected with food prep. I don't care for cleaning but I will take on more of it when I leave my job. My husband has had to deal with the bulk of it up to this point since he works from home and his work hours are not as long as mine. I kind of look forward to being able to pay him back for all the times he took on this burden alone while I was working non-stop.

I have never had a housekeeper and I'm pretty sure I would hate it. I feel uncomfortable when people touch my things. I'd rather have a messy house than a house maintained by a stranger.

I will retire in 21 days and my husband will continue to work for another 4-5 years since he loves being a tenured professor and wants to revel in his tenure for a while longer.

I am the husband and I am retiring in 22 days, it's not early by MMM standards, I'm 61.

Congratulations Qmavam!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2016, 02:10:02 AM »
I think once you get to the point where you are FI so don't need to work for money you can choose how you spend your time. If your partner wants to keep working then that is a reasonable choice.

The balance of housework is for each family to decide and compromise for themselves. However, both people have made a free choice as to how they spend their time. If the FIRE partner has chosen to retire to see more of the country or read to sick children or even watch everything on Netflix; why should they have to do the bulk of the housework just because the non-FIRE partner has chosen to spend their time in an office moving paper around?

deborah

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2016, 02:25:23 AM »
It just happens that way. You come home from a hard day at the office, and there is your partner, playing computer games, with no housework done, no dinner on the table... And you feel miserable, even if you have agreed to it, and you are FI. Trust me, at times it is hard not to feel resentful.

BTDretire

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2016, 06:03:28 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies. Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

 Household chores should not be a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQgDwA0BNU&feature=youtu.be

SachaFiscal

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2016, 06:19:39 AM »
I also like cooking and grocery shopping and don't mind doing a few errands. I don't love cleaning but it doesn't really take that much time. It takes a large chunk out of a weekend when you are working full time but when retired I imagine I could spend 30 minutes a day doing some cleaning tasks and the house would be spotless. That would still leave me a ton of free time to do whatever I wanted during the day. Or I could just pick one day that I cleaned on and then have 6 other play days in the week! We don't have kids or pets so the house doesn't really get all that dirty. It helps that my partner is not messy and picks up after himself. I'm actually the messier one.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2016, 04:44:18 AM »
Tough situation.

I'll be FI much sooner than my SO. I'm 4 years older and have been working full time 5 years longer.

I might keep working a bit longer than necessary to help her get there faster, or not. 

HAPPYINAZ

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2016, 07:20:09 AM »
Thanks for all of the replies. Household chores is a big concern of mine. I don't want to get stuck being responsible for all of them. I would rather work than be in charge of the cooking, shopping, cleaning, and errands.

 Household chores should not be a problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqQgDwA0BNU&feature=youtu.be


hahahaha, that video is great!

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2016, 07:50:28 AM »
It just happens that way. You come home from a hard day at the office, and there is your partner, playing computer games, with no housework done, no dinner on the table... And you feel miserable, even if you have agreed to it, and you are FI. Trust me, at times it is hard not to feel resentful.

I get this if the working-for-money person has mentioned that they have a tough week or temporary time and has flagged it in advance, and I've agreed that I'll pick up the housework; fine. Otherwise, I consider that my fun computer games have equal validity as your hard day at the office. We've both chosen how to spend our time.

Probably a good job we're not married Deborah!

StacheyStache

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2016, 08:22:44 AM »
It just happens that way. You come home from a hard day at the office, and there is your partner, playing computer games, with no housework done, no dinner on the table... And you feel miserable, even if you have agreed to it, and you are FI. Trust me, at times it is hard not to feel resentful.
Yes the guilt would get to me and I know I'd find myself feeling I "had" to do everything even if I wasn't using any of the SOs earnings to fund my retirement.

I actually broke off a long term relationship with a guy due partly to this. I was already retired and he planned to keep working another 20 years. The whole "I wanna travelong term and have adventures" was a bit of an issue but more so was the thought that if we moved in together I'd be spending my days washing his underwear, cleaning his toilet, shopping and cooking all his meals, taking care of the yard, washing the cars, etc...instead of spending my time playing beach volleyball and surfing and hanging with my dog and doing all the things I did in ER. While he wouldn't be supporting me and I'd be paying my fair share of expenses the guilt (and of course to help  him but mostly guilt) would still drive me to do those things....which would eventually drive me insane. While he would never expect me to do those things, the guilt would make me feel bad if I didnt. Keeping my own place was huge to alleviate that stuff but that wouldn't satisfy him forever (or me).

 In the end my desire to have a partner who wanted to FIRE and travel (along with my desire NOT to feel bad because I didn't want to spend my time washing his tightly whites) and his fesire to work many more years lead us to break up.

I don't get this.  If you live together it's not HIS toilet, it's 'our' toilet, 'our' meals, 'our' house etc.  It takes me zero extra effort to shop for and cook a meal for two rather than one (unless you're cooking totally separate meals for each of you or he insists on gourmet 6 hour recipes each night).  It takes zero extra effort to clean 'our' house vs 'my' house (unless he insists on living in a 10 bedroom mansion).  Stuff like throwing his underwear in with yours to wash takes minimal extra effort (maybe an extra load or two a week).  If I were RE and my SO wasn't, I'd take on all of the chores no problem.  30 minutes of 'work' a day max as long as you manage expectations (no 10 bedroom mansions, he eats what you cook, toilets don't have to be scrubbed EVERY day etc).  The only chores that really need to be done each day are pet things like walking and feeding the dog, cooking dinner and dinner clean up (and really who's going to care if you leave the dishes in the sink overnight?).  The rest is just 30 minutes of maintenance each day with some organization.  Grocery shop for the week Monday, one load of laundry Tuesday, clean the bathroom Wednesday, sweep and vacuum Thursday etc.  And if you don't get to the bathroom Wednesday, again who cares?  Switch it up, put it off, you have all the time in the world.  If I can make my partner's life easier by doing just 30 minutes of housework and cooking dinner, sign me up!  A lot of the stuff I'd have to do for myself if I lived alone anyway and I still have the rest of the day to play.  And vice versa: if the roles were reversed and my partner didn't care about me enough to cook dinner and do 30 minutes a day of housework in the 9 hours I'm gone at work, RE or no RE there'd be tons of resentment. 

And if your partner moves out, then you really will have zero help with the chores you'd have to do for yourself anyway.  At least when you're doing the bulk of the work you are totally justified in assigning your partner that one chore you absolutely despise so you never have to do it again (I have never once taken out the trash since I moved in with SO). 

Chaplin

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2016, 08:39:36 AM »
I don't mind work, just my job.

As an alternative to both of us working for five more years (the current plan). I would be perfectly happy to have my wife keep her full-time job while I did some contract work from home (maybe 5 to 10 hrs/week) and took care of 100% of the housework. We already split it 50/50 (I'm tempted to say I do more than 50%, but everybody probably thinks they do more than they do), so cutting out 35 hours of work per week in return for the other 50% of the housework would be fine by me.

renata ricotta

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2016, 12:40:14 PM »
It just happens that way. You come home from a hard day at the office, and there is your partner, playing computer games, with no housework done, no dinner on the table... And you feel miserable, even if you have agreed to it, and you are FI. Trust me, at times it is hard not to feel resentful.
Yes the guilt would get to me and I know I'd find myself feeling I "had" to do everything even if I wasn't using any of the SOs earnings to fund my retirement.

I actually broke off a long term relationship with a guy due partly to this. I was already retired and he planned to keep working another 20 years. The whole "I wanna travelong term and have adventures" was a bit of an issue but more so was the thought that if we moved in together I'd be spending my days washing his underwear, cleaning his toilet, shopping and cooking all his meals, taking care of the yard, washing the cars, etc...instead of spending my time playing beach volleyball and surfing and hanging with my dog and doing all the things I did in ER. While he wouldn't be supporting me and I'd be paying my fair share of expenses the guilt (and of course to help  him but mostly guilt) would still drive me to do those things....which would eventually drive me insane. While he would never expect me to do those things, the guilt would make me feel bad if I didnt. Keeping my own place was huge to alleviate that stuff but that wouldn't satisfy him forever (or me).

 In the end my desire to have a partner who wanted to FIRE and travel (along with my desire NOT to feel bad because I didn't want to spend my time washing his tightly whites) and his fesire to work many more years lead us to break up.

I don't get this.  If you live together it's not HIS toilet, it's 'our' toilet, 'our' meals, 'our' house etc.  It takes me zero extra effort to shop for and cook a meal for two rather than one (unless you're cooking totally separate meals for each of you or he insists on gourmet 6 hour recipes each night).  It takes zero extra effort to clean 'our' house vs 'my' house (unless he insists on living in a 10 bedroom mansion).  Stuff like throwing his underwear in with yours to wash takes minimal extra effort (maybe an extra load or two a week).  If I were RE and my SO wasn't, I'd take on all of the chores no problem.  30 minutes of 'work' a day max as long as you manage expectations (no 10 bedroom mansions, he eats what you cook, toilets don't have to be scrubbed EVERY day etc).  The only chores that really need to be done each day are pet things like walking and feeding the dog, cooking dinner and dinner clean up (and really who's going to care if you leave the dishes in the sink overnight?).  The rest is just 30 minutes of maintenance each day with some organization.  Grocery shop for the week Monday, one load of laundry Tuesday, clean the bathroom Wednesday, sweep and vacuum Thursday etc.  And if you don't get to the bathroom Wednesday, again who cares?  Switch it up, put it off, you have all the time in the world.  If I can make my partner's life easier by doing just 30 minutes of housework and cooking dinner, sign me up!  A lot of the stuff I'd have to do for myself if I lived alone anyway and I still have the rest of the day to play.  And vice versa: if the roles were reversed and my partner didn't care about me enough to cook dinner and do 30 minutes a day of housework in the 9 hours I'm gone at work, RE or no RE there'd be tons of resentment. 

And if your partner moves out, then you really will have zero help with the chores you'd have to do for yourself anyway.  At least when you're doing the bulk of the work you are totally justified in assigning your partner that one chore you absolutely despise so you never have to do it again (I have never once taken out the trash since I moved in with SO).

Yeah, I agree with StacheyStache.  Somebody currently cleans and cooks and buys groceries, right?  I mean, I guess if the working partner assumed that a retired partner meant he/she never had to lift another finger for shared household chores ever again, that would be a problem, but I think it's a kindness to use your much more flexible schedule to pull a little bit more of the household weight.  After all, if you were retired as a single person you would have to feed and clean up after yourself.  If you keep the same standard of cleanliness and division of labor you have now, you should still have 8 hours a day to do your FIRE stuff, just like how you currently have 8 hours a day to be at work and still somehow eat and live in a reasonably clean environment.

Anyway, if you are thinking the difference is between "work an extra 4-5 years and not be in charge of housework at all (somehow?)" and "quit now and be 100% in charge of housework," I'd split the difference.  Add the cost of outsourcing housekeeping and charges for things like Instacart or Blue Apron to your FIRE expenses, and work a little longer to cover those expenses in retirement.  That might mean an extra six months of working instead of 4-5 years.

deborah

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2016, 01:37:17 PM »
It just happens that way. You come home from a hard day at the office, and there is your partner, playing computer games, with no housework done, no dinner on the table... And you feel miserable, even if you have agreed to it, and you are FI. Trust me, at times it is hard not to feel resentful.

I get this if the working-for-money person has mentioned that they have a tough week or temporary time and has flagged it in advance, and I've agreed that I'll pick up the housework; fine. Otherwise, I consider that my fun computer games have equal validity as your hard day at the office. We've both chosen how to spend our time.

Probably a good job we're not married Deborah!
Oh, I retired years ago, and SO retired a couple of years before me (we were both FI). I agree that his computer games had equal validity - but it can be difficult not to be unreasonable occasionally. I never said anything, because it was unreasonable, but I thought it!

Other dynamics that can be difficult are that the person who retired first has got into a retirement regime - and then you retire and muck it up. You want to do your share, but the things you do aren't what they want done. You want to have a coffee at 10 when they are used to having their break at 11 so they can get the letters after the postie has been. It's likely that they are used to having the whole house as their private area to do whatever they want - then you retire and add an extra person to the mix who is there all the time. I haven't experienced these things myself (SO possibly kept his thoughts to himself too), but I have certainly known a number of people who have had problems with this.

MrsPete

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2016, 07:56:40 PM »
Doesn't want to retire early, or doesn't see how it's possible? 

FrenchMustache

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #34 on: December 12, 2016, 05:49:09 AM »
I dont really get the concerns about housework. I mean, if you dont have kids (or they left the house) and it's just you and your husband, how much housework can there be? I have 3 young kids at home and really dont spend a lot of time on housework at all. really the floor doenst have to be cleaned everyday, and dinner can be something simple that doesnt require hours in the kitchen! I would just retire and maybe make a deal that you spend 1 hour a day on housework (including cooking), or else that you meal prep together in the weekends? Or get a weekly cleaning service? Or devide up the days for cooking? Seems a very simple issue to solve and talk about. Me and my partner both want to retire but sadly it will be at least another 15 years, rate we are going. But we'll be going at the same time when the time comes :)

Cpa Cat

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #35 on: December 12, 2016, 12:10:54 PM »
Some people will never fully understand the "housewife problem" because a) it doesn't bother them to do chores, or b) because there's a more equitable division of labor, so it never really becomes an issue.

Here's how it worked in our house: When we got married, my husband was very active and busy with a startup and I was a student. So it made sense for me to do the majority of the chores and errands. In fact, I did about 99% of them - cooking, cleaning, laundry, yard work, shopping, buying his mother Xmas gifts, buying his clothes, paying the bills. Everything.

Then after a few years, he sold his business and ER'd. And I was still doing 99% of the chores. Because old habits die hard. I started to chafe against this, but what I got in response was "This was the deal, I made the money and you're the housewife." Except I didn't want to be a housewife. It seemed like it made sense at first, but I didn't enjoy these things. It wasn't my goal to be a housewife. It just happened. And staring into the future of my marriage... I did not want to be a housewife forever.

So I went to work. And he started to help out more. But every single chore that I was able to convince him to do was hard won. He had become dependent on me to do everything. When I told him to buy his own pants, he said, "I don't even know what size I wear. Besides, my mom always bought my pants before you, what's the big deal?" Guys... "My mom always did X..." is a loser of an argument. I think I just stood and stared at him for like 30 seconds, then finally told him his pant size and told him to check the tag next time he was unsure. When he asked me where to buy pants, I told him to try Google. But seriously... this pants thing still comes up every time he needs new pants. Like he's somehow forgotten that he buys his own clothes now.

When I was working 9-5, we were supposed to split housekeeping 50/50. He does the downstairs, where he has his office, his bathroom, tv room, and I do the upstairs. A few months in, he told me that his toilet had some kind of black mold in it. My response was "Haven't you been cleaning it?" He said yes, but it kept coming back. So I go to the kitchen and get out a bleach cleanser, and my instinct is to just take care of this gross toilet situation, but as I looked at that bottle of cleanser, I realized that if I clean it now, I will be cleaning it forever. So, I handed the bottle to him (he claimed not to know it existed prior to that moment). Later that evening, I suggested we hire a cleaning service. If he complains about the disruption or cost, I just ask him if the black mold has returned (it has not), and that's that.

We got household maintenance down to about 50/50 (keeping in mind that I was working full time and he was not working - so I never totally "won" this issue), but then I ER'd and started dabbling with self-employment. I had a flexible schedule and was available to do tasks again, and it was like a regression occurred. Suddenly, he didn't know how to turn on the oven, even though only a few months before, he was starting meal-prep on days I got home late.

The more successful my business becomes, the more he helps out around the house. The other week he announced that I needed to do laundry (yep) while I was in the middle of a work-related task, and I turned to him and said, "I'll do it when I finish. Will you go sort it so that it's ready?" Now... I know for a fact that laundry was my husband's chore when he was a young lad, but he did try to tell me he didn't know how I'd want it sorted. I told him, "Two piles. One light, one dark." When I went in to do the laundry, half of it was unsorted. He said it was because he was afraid he was doing it wrong. Amazingly, this week he started sorting laundry unprompted, but he gave up again. He said he tried his best, but then wasn't sure if my things needed dry-cleaning. Actually, the truth was he encountered one dress and it occurred to him that it might need dry-cleaning, but instead of checking the tag or moving on to other items, he just stopped. I replied that I also didn't know if that dress needed dry-cleaning, so I'd need to check the tag, and I reassured him that he could just sort and I would make sure not to put anything in the machine that didn't belong there.

It's true - chores aren't hard. What's the big deal? But... if chores are no big deal, then why am I the one who does everything? It's like I unintentionally trained my husband to not be able to do basic tasks. And it turned out that training him to do nothing was a heck of lot easier than training him to do something.

I don't like chores. I do not get fulfillment from taking care of these things. And gradually, I get resentful that I'm the person who does everything. But I also don't want to fight about it. So I've outsourced everything I can easily outsource (like cleaning and ordering groceries online), and I fight patient little battles to get more help. But I also understand the pattern - if I quit working completely tomorrow, my husband would stop all attempts to sort the laundry.

Don't get me wrong - my husband has a lot of fantastic qualities and we get along great. But the chore dynamic isn't great. His general chore-laziness combined with my inclination to just get things done quickly and efficiently leads down a road that I do not want to keep going down. I would much rather have a successful and fulfilling business than be a housewife.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 12:13:11 PM by Cpa Cat »

Zikoris

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2016, 01:54:28 PM »
I dont really get the concerns about housework. I mean, if you dont have kids (or they left the house) and it's just you and your husband, how much housework can there be? I have 3 young kids at home and really dont spend a lot of time on housework at all. really the floor doenst have to be cleaned everyday, and dinner can be something simple that doesnt require hours in the kitchen! I would just retire and maybe make a deal that you spend 1 hour a day on housework (including cooking), or else that you meal prep together in the weekends? Or get a weekly cleaning service? Or devide up the days for cooking? Seems a very simple issue to solve and talk about. Me and my partner both want to retire but sadly it will be at least another 15 years, rate we are going. But we'll be going at the same time when the time comes :)

I don't get it either. We probably spend around 20-30 minutes a weekday each on chores, sometimes less. The only daily stuff we do is cooking, dishes, fix bed, and garbage. Weekends are maybe an hour tops - add in laundry (1 load), vacuuming (1 room), extra cooking for the week, and sometimes the bathroom or kitchen if we feel like it. We're not neat freaks by any means, but our place is always reasonably tidy.

deborah

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 04:43:13 PM »
For me it was more about fighting my ingrained expectations when things weren't done. There were two years between when SO retired and when I retired, and he did nothing more than he had always done, still procrastinated forever when he had agreed to do things (I procrastinate as well, so this normally works for us, but when he was at-home-doing-nothing procrastination was not really acceptable). We could have had fights, but I kept on telling myself that the end was in sight and he was retired, and at times it was a close thing. It would have been really nice if he had occasionally made the evening meal during that time.

Cressida

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 08:39:51 PM »
Some people will never fully understand the "housewife problem" because a) it doesn't bother them to do chores, or b) because there's a more equitable division of labor, so it never really becomes an issue.

Here's how it worked in our house: When we got married, my husband was very active and busy with a startup and I was a student. So it made sense for me to do the majority of the chores and errands. In fact, I did about 99% of them - cooking, cleaning, laundry, yard work, shopping, buying his mother Xmas gifts, buying his clothes, paying the bills. Everything.

Then after a few years, he sold his business and ER'd. And I was still doing 99% of the chores. Because old habits die hard. I started to chafe against this, but what I got in response was "This was the deal, I made the money and you're the housewife." Except I didn't want to be a housewife. It seemed like it made sense at first, but I didn't enjoy these things. It wasn't my goal to be a housewife. It just happened. And staring into the future of my marriage... I did not want to be a housewife forever.

So I went to work. And he started to help out more. But every single chore that I was able to convince him to do was hard won. He had become dependent on me to do everything. When I told him to buy his own pants, he said, "I don't even know what size I wear. Besides, my mom always bought my pants before you, what's the big deal?" Guys... "My mom always did X..." is a loser of an argument. I think I just stood and stared at him for like 30 seconds, then finally told him his pant size and told him to check the tag next time he was unsure. When he asked me where to buy pants, I told him to try Google. But seriously... this pants thing still comes up every time he needs new pants. Like he's somehow forgotten that he buys his own clothes now.

When I was working 9-5, we were supposed to split housekeeping 50/50. He does the downstairs, where he has his office, his bathroom, tv room, and I do the upstairs. A few months in, he told me that his toilet had some kind of black mold in it. My response was "Haven't you been cleaning it?" He said yes, but it kept coming back. So I go to the kitchen and get out a bleach cleanser, and my instinct is to just take care of this gross toilet situation, but as I looked at that bottle of cleanser, I realized that if I clean it now, I will be cleaning it forever. So, I handed the bottle to him (he claimed not to know it existed prior to that moment). Later that evening, I suggested we hire a cleaning service. If he complains about the disruption or cost, I just ask him if the black mold has returned (it has not), and that's that.

We got household maintenance down to about 50/50 (keeping in mind that I was working full time and he was not working - so I never totally "won" this issue), but then I ER'd and started dabbling with self-employment. I had a flexible schedule and was available to do tasks again, and it was like a regression occurred. Suddenly, he didn't know how to turn on the oven, even though only a few months before, he was starting meal-prep on days I got home late.

The more successful my business becomes, the more he helps out around the house. The other week he announced that I needed to do laundry (yep) while I was in the middle of a work-related task, and I turned to him and said, "I'll do it when I finish. Will you go sort it so that it's ready?" Now... I know for a fact that laundry was my husband's chore when he was a young lad, but he did try to tell me he didn't know how I'd want it sorted. I told him, "Two piles. One light, one dark." When I went in to do the laundry, half of it was unsorted. He said it was because he was afraid he was doing it wrong. Amazingly, this week he started sorting laundry unprompted, but he gave up again. He said he tried his best, but then wasn't sure if my things needed dry-cleaning. Actually, the truth was he encountered one dress and it occurred to him that it might need dry-cleaning, but instead of checking the tag or moving on to other items, he just stopped. I replied that I also didn't know if that dress needed dry-cleaning, so I'd need to check the tag, and I reassured him that he could just sort and I would make sure not to put anything in the machine that didn't belong there.

It's true - chores aren't hard. What's the big deal? But... if chores are no big deal, then why am I the one who does everything? It's like I unintentionally trained my husband to not be able to do basic tasks. And it turned out that training him to do nothing was a heck of lot easier than training him to do something.

I don't like chores. I do not get fulfillment from taking care of these things. And gradually, I get resentful that I'm the person who does everything. But I also don't want to fight about it. So I've outsourced everything I can easily outsource (like cleaning and ordering groceries online), and I fight patient little battles to get more help. But I also understand the pattern - if I quit working completely tomorrow, my husband would stop all attempts to sort the laundry.

Don't get me wrong - my husband has a lot of fantastic qualities and we get along great. But the chore dynamic isn't great. His general chore-laziness combined with my inclination to just get things done quickly and efficiently leads down a road that I do not want to keep going down. I would much rather have a successful and fulfilling business than be a housewife.

Everyone ... please, PLEASE, teach your sons that housework doesn't do itself. Otherwise, this will keep happening.

Sorry you have to deal with this, Cpa Cat.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2016, 12:47:55 AM »
When I told him to buy his own pants, he said, "I don't even know what size I wear. Besides, my mom always bought my pants before you, what's the big deal?" Guys... "My mom always did X..." is a loser of an argument. I think I just stood and stared at him for like 30 seconds, then finally told him his pant size and told him to check the tag next time he was unsure. When he asked me where to buy pants, I told him to try Google. But seriously... this pants thing still comes up every time he needs new pants. Like he's somehow forgotten that he buys his own clothes now.
Everyone ... please, PLEASE, teach your sons that housework doesn't do itself. Otherwise, this will keep happening.

This. I'm a lovely daughter in law and have dumped many a man-child who had been infantalised by their parents. I don't know if they have been raised to believe that they genuinely can't do chores or if they just think that faking ineptitude is the route to an easy life. Raising a child who can't function as an adult isn't helping them.

marty998

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2016, 03:09:35 AM »

...snip...

He said it was because he was afraid he was doing it wrong.

...snip...


This does not only apply to domestic partnerships. And it's a bare faced lie that needs to be called out.

My cricket team is absolutely fucking useless and all the guys use this excuse to get out of setting up the field prior to the game. They pretend to be shithouse or incompetent (at putting witches hats down to mark a circular boundary no less!) which absolves themselves of having to do anything.

I hate being a doormat over it but there would never be a game if I didn't just ignore them and get on with it.

BTDretire

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2016, 08:00:12 AM »

...snip...

He said it was because he was afraid he was doing it wrong.

...snip...


 Why don't you show up late, see if anyone gets it done.
If you bring the equipment, make sure someone else has it as
you have an appointment and will be late.
                                     Mike


« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 03:21:14 PM by Qmavam »

Cpa Cat

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2016, 09:58:10 AM »

Everyone ... please, PLEASE, teach your sons that housework doesn't do itself. Otherwise, this will keep happening.

Sorry you have to deal with this, Cpa Cat.

Here's the thing - I know for a fact that he did chores growing up. I know he cooked meals for me when we were dating (a limited selection, perhaps, but he was capable). He had a job mowing lawns when he was 12! Granted, I don't know why his mom kept buying him pants well into adulthood...

I feel like I ruined him. Oh sure, he was happy to ask me to do everything - but I did it. And for awhile, I even liked doing it - because I was 20 and blinded by love and it totally seemed like a good idea, and because this whole nuclear-family-traditional-housewife thing seemed fascinating and romantic when compared to my divorced parents.

But if I disappeared tomorrow, I highly doubt he'd be calling up his mom to do his laundry. He'd figure it out.

I truly believe that I helped create this dynamic. It's just that now it's hard to un-create. I can see how I may have had the habit of swooping in and saving him when he gets anxious, frustrated or challenged. I did it because he was busy and it was easy for me, and because it's in my nature to look for ways to solve problems, or reduce stress by crossing tasks off a to-do list.

And for a lot of people it would never be a problem. It wouldn't start irking them the way it irks me. A part of me still thinks, "Who cares if he sorts the laundry? It literally takes me 2 minutes to accomplish this task." It's the expectation that bothers me - the expectation that I will do every single chore. There have been weeks when I look back and realize that I spent 10-15 hours on housework/errands and my husband spent 0. I didn't want to do these chores, I just did them because that's what people do, but if that's true, then why is there a guy sitting in my basement with the expectation of doing 0 and why am I ok with that? That is what bothers me.

This does not only apply to domestic partnerships. And it's a bare faced lie that needs to be called out.

My cricket team is absolutely fucking useless and all the guys use this excuse to get out of setting up the field prior to the game. They pretend to be shithouse or incompetent (at putting witches hats down to mark a circular boundary no less!) which absolves themselves of having to do anything.

I hate being a doormat over it but there would never be a game if I didn't just ignore them and get on with it.

This is exactly how I feel! I love my husband too much to believe he's intentionally manipulating me by consciously pretending to be useless.  But on occasion, I find myself looking at him thinking, "Are you F-ing with me?"

« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 11:03:40 AM by Cpa Cat »

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #43 on: December 14, 2016, 10:29:33 AM »
The housework/errands tangent of this thread is fascinating.  Other than the raising of children (where the "thing" demanding effort/taking care of is as or more important than your own happiness/well-being/freedom), why do people stay in a situation where demands that do not pay can overwhelm their time?  Or is this completely about them being put in a situation by someone else (significant other bringing in more crap to take care of and then doesnt take care of it themselves).  Are there single people that don't want to quit their jobs because the housework/errand demand would become too great/dissapointing?

I had about 3 months of little to no work this summer before things got busy again (self-employed).  During those 3 months I felt like I finally had the right amount of time for a real balance.  An hour or two of taking care of things around the house that I've neglected and wanted to get to or improve, more quality time with the kids, whether running them places or just doing things with them, and then even time left over just to do some things I wanted to do (hike, etc).  Even sit down and watch a tv show by myself or take a nap.  It was quite the tease re: FIRE.

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #44 on: December 14, 2016, 10:39:56 AM »
it's never too late!  My dad has "remembered" how to do chores in the past 2 years.
Aging and seeing other men helping their wives convinced him to help on dishes and laundry.

deborah

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #45 on: December 14, 2016, 12:48:41 PM »
CPA Cat, I think you need to instigate a corrective behaviors modification program for both yourself and your SO. What will happen when you get sick, or die before him? You owe it to both of you to change the situation.

I have always claimed that my tolerance for untidiness has evened up the share of chores that I do, because the person with the least tolerance is probably the one who ends up doing all the chores. So, cultivate tolerance for the less than perfect. Every time you see something that needs doing, go into a quiet room and practice mindfulness for half an hour. Once you are at peace with yourself, continue about your daily business. You could plan a week spent "reinvigorating yourself" and do nothing that week, and spend the week observing what happens. This is different to Marty's situation where a lot of the things could be left undone for a week with impunity. Take notes about what happens - be nice, but just don't do things. The week is to work out what should be done about the situation.

If there is something he can't do (like buy pants), suggest to him that he makes a list about how to do it. You are preparing for that day when you will not be around to do it for him. He can have a notebook "How to Live my Life" where all the lists reside, so he can just flip the pages until he gets  to the chore that needs doing. He could even have a few recipes in there.

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #46 on: December 14, 2016, 03:47:10 PM »
it's never too late!  My dad has "remembered" how to do chores in the past 2 years.
Aging and seeing other men helping their wives convinced him to help on dishes and laundry.

That is nice of your dad to learn from his peers. However, I personally don't want to be "helped" with chores because that would still imply that the chores are my responsibility. To me, that sounds the same as dads who "babysit" their own children. Moms and wives rarely get any praise for doing chores or child-rearing, yet get all of the blame if there are any issues with either.

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2016, 01:01:53 AM »
CPA Cat, I've been through similar things and it can be done. I found that going away for a while or becoming busy with something else was a decent way to kick start a change. In particular, when something new comes up, or you are asked how to do something, say you don't know and get him to google it.

Also, we have separate laundry baskets. There is no reason why laundry has to be a joint chore for able bodied adults. If necessary buy more socks so that you can go the extra time between loads.

blizeH

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2016, 04:02:48 AM »
In that position I'd try to get to the point of FIRE, where you can both comfortably and safely retire, and then have the conversation with him again.

That way you can retire together, or if he wants to continue working he can, but I wouldn't put off your own retirement just because he is, no chance.

Metta

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Re: Husband doesn't want to retire early
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2016, 07:12:53 AM »
I have always claimed that my tolerance for untidiness has evened up the share of chores that I do, because the person with the least tolerance is probably the one who ends up doing all the chores.

I suspect that this is why so much housework is done by my husband. He's not only more intolerant of mess, he is also pretty anal about how housework should be done. (Laundry is apparently a science and since I don't adhere to his weird laundry cult I'm not allowed to wash his clothes. Which is OK by me as long as he doesn't stand over me telling me how to wash my own clothing, which he almost never does anymore.)

We just negotiated what we will be doing about household cleaning once January arrives and I'm retired and he is not. Last time I said I would do most of the housework it just drove both of us crazy. He has a system that he thinks I should adopt. It consists of cleaning something every single time one walks through a room. My personal system is to focus on one thing at a time. If I were to clean something each time I walked through a room, I would not be thinking about things I need to think about. All I could think about would be cleaning and I would hate my life. I prefer setting aside a few hours and cleaning intensively.

Last time we tried to give me some of his cleaning it didn't work. I felt that he was always watching me walk through rooms and critiquing my lack of cleaning as I did so. He thought I was inefficient and felt unhappy that he had to walk through rooms without cleaning or straightening errant papers. (I don't really understand his unhappiness and not having to clean all the time. But there you go. Sometimes the people we love best are mysteries to us.)

So, this is our new negotiation. He is going to continue his cleaning method. I am going to tackle the bigger chores or the ones he hates (bathroom cleaning) once or twice a week. Cooking and food related tasks are mine because I love them. Dishes are generally his because he feels he gets them done more efficiently (there is a science to loading the dishwasher apparently) or we will do them together.

We think this will work. Crossing fingers.