The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: OutBy40 on December 12, 2014, 02:28:47 PM
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Just curious how many here would ever consider living in a tiny house. And by "tiny house", I'm not talking about simply a small house. I mean the "tiny house" concept where your home is built, usually between 100 and 500 square feet (some are larger, some are even smaller) and can be transported practically anywhere in the entire world and plopped down.
I asked this question here (http://www.thinksaveretire.com/2014/could-you-live-in-a-tiny-home/) (link to my personal web site). You can find many, many pictures of tiny homes here (https://www.google.com/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1920&bih=1019&q=tiny+home&oq=tiny+home&gs_l=img.3..0l10.2382.3123.0.3213.9.9.0.0.0.0.180.1109.2j6.8.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.60.img..1.8.1107.ZJzgDiwzhig) (link to Google Image search).
Would anyone consider such a living arrangement?
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My wife and I already live in 550 sq ft, and I think we could easily chop off a hundred or more off that without even noticing. So sure, it's definitely appealing and would be hardly any adjustment.
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My wife and I already live in 550 sq ft, and I think we could easily chop off a hundred or more off that without even noticing. So sure, it's definitely appealing and would be hardly any adjustment.
Really? Awesome - is it a true tiny home that can be transported fairly easily, or is it a traditional home but built smaller and only to your immediate needs?
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We are indeed in the process of designing our little house, more or less along the lines of what these folks have done, with a few modifications to suit our own needs. We bought our land a few weeks ago and we should hopefully start building it ourselves, with the help of a carpenter friend, sometime this summer.
http://tinyhousebuild.com/
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DH and I totally could and I hope will someday. But not until the three kids move out.
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My SO and I always joke that we need a tiny house with a BIG garage! We're far more attached to the classic car and having a machine shop than we are about the size of the house. A trailer based house wouldn't work, but a really teeny loft or 1 bedroom home would be perfect.
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We are indeed in the process of designing our little house, more or less along the lines of what these folks have done, with a few modifications to suit our own needs. We bought our land a few weeks ago and we should hopefully start building it ourselves, with the help of a carpenter friend, sometime this summer.
http://tinyhousebuild.com/
Awesome, would love to follow your journey to building that tiny home if you care to post about it. If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country did you buy your land to build your new tiny house on?
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Would rather a tiny apartment (with garage) as I can't stand yard work. Allergies and asthma growing up gave me a distaste for the blooming, pollening, seeding outside spaces.
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I currently live in less than 300 square feet with two cats and a dog. A little too small - hard to do any sewing (one of my hobbies) and the cats get restless with so little space. I think I need more space or at least a yard for the animals.
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Theoretically it would be possible. However, I'd be miserable.
I build guitar amps and effects pedals, so like to have room to solder and for electrical components. I fix guitars, and typically have several kicking around the house along with tools for that. I record music (mics/preamps/mic stands/gobos/guitars/drums/basses/harmonicas). Of course, I wouldn't be able to play as much music anyway because I do a lot of it after my kid and wife have gone to sleep. Need space for my bike and all the tools used to repair it. The wife also has a bike. Our son has a bike trailer and will soon have a bike. Any house requires some general carpentry tools given enough time. Then you've got your basic gardening tools ( a wheelbarrow, stakes, cages, trellis, spade, pots, etc. ).
Could I live without all this stuff? Sure. But my life would be much less rich and much more dependant upon others. The tiny house idea is a nice romantic notion of simplicity, but I can't see it being a realistic long term solution for many.
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I've lived in a 500 square foot house. With three other people. 500 square feet by myself or with my girlfriend would be extremely doable. Four was tight.
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I guess I am pushing your definition of tiny. It probably was "small." Wife and I spent 5 years in a 600sqft tool shed. We have since built a house in front of it. It was tight, but by no means uncomfortable.
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If I wasn't already living in a 1500 sq ft house, then I would definitely get a tiny house. There are rooms we never really use in this house. I'd be perfectly fine with a tiny space.
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My wife and I already live in 550 sq ft, and I think we could easily chop off a hundred or more off that without even noticing. So sure, it's definitely appealing and would be hardly any adjustment.
Really? Awesome - is it a true tiny home that can be transported fairly easily, or is it a traditional home but built smaller and only to your immediate needs?
It's an apartment. So a tiny house is even more appealing because our neighbors would be farther away. :)
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I've looked at quite a few videos on YT for both tiny homes and full time RV living, and have determined that I'm not interested. At all.
Would go for a smallish 1 bedroom condo while snow birding for the three darkest months each year, but have no interest in a house a fraction the size of either the greenhouse or shop I'll build at our retirement property.
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When the 2 kids move out and it is just the wife and I again then yes. We are more planning on going full time in an RV though.
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Shorter term? Sure. DH and I considered living on a boat, before determining it wouldn't actually be cheap, for the ~8 months we will be living in the States next year.
Longer term? Nope. I consider 2 toilets to be very good for marriage, so I wouldn't commit to less than 1.5 baths for long unless our hair was on fire.
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Sounds great to me! Unfortunately, they're not really practical in a major urban center. We have a 400 square foot apartment now and are very happy. It feels spacious and comfortable.
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Just mentioned in another thread that I'm too tall and gangly of limb to comfortably live in a "tiny house".... but we are in the planning stages of designing a "small cabin" to stick on our island property... I've been in some of the suddenly trendy "tiny homes"... uh, my frame doesn't work in them whatsoever....
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Oh my gosh, I was going to post something about tiny houses yesterday!
DH and I have talked about doing this. We'd like to someday buy the 50 acres that my dad owns and build a tiny house on it. I think we'd both be happy in one and we've looked at lots of different floor plans. But there is a lot to think about, so we'll see what happens. For now it's not an option, because we have 4 kids.
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No, I don't think I could. I honestly need at least 550 square feet at the very minimum.
The only way I'd settle for less is if it was to live in a dream city for a year or two, like Paris or London.
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My SO and I always joke that we need a tiny house with a BIG garage! We're far more attached to the classic car and having a machine shop than we are about the size of the house. A trailer based house wouldn't work, but a really teeny loft or 1 bedroom home would be perfect.
Exactly this!
I'd like a tiny relatively maintenance free house, with a large garage/shop for mechanic-ing for boyfriend and leatherworking and woodworking and other building stuff for me. I don't necessarily want a trailer based house, just something very small. And a big yard for a garden too.
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I lived in a tiny RV once, with an 80lb Husky/wolf cross. Not fun on rainy days, as everything you own smells like wet dog. (and I love dogs...but still)
I don't think I could full time like that again, but I could summer in Alaska like that no problem.
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I love the idea, but no desire to have a mobile house at this point, so am content with my 800 sq. ft. house. (Me, husband, and 2 little kids). This feels like plenty of space to us, unless we want to have multiple friends over w/their kids too. We don't have a garage either, and live in MN. We have a little shed which works fine for storing stuff.
I could totally see living in one in a warmer climate just 2 people.
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I couldn't do it. I could give up the old car in the garage that I'll probably never restore (thinking seriously of getting rid of it) and give up some other things, but I don't know about living in 100 or 200 sq ft. My tool shed is 200 sq ft. Humans should have more room than tools.
Living in the rust belt I have some issues with cost. Even if one does the building, on a Tumbleweed supplied trailer, it's still more expensive than a lot of the local houses. If you're from San Francisco maybe the cost of a tiny house relative to alternatives is very different. Where I live the cost of building a tiny house yourself is the cost of buying a 2 BR bungalow with a basement and a garage. Makes zero financial sense where I live. The cost of buying a tiny house already built, by Tumbleweed, is the cost of a 4 BR home around here.
Second, you have to know someone, a friend or family member, who will let you park your tiny house on their back 40 or in their backyard. If it's a backyard sooner or later the code enforcement officer will be around to tell you that you can't live there permanently so you have to move your "trailer". Sorry to sound snarky but it kind of sounds like "Hey, I don't live in my parent's basement, I live in their backyard, in a shed I built myself".
You could probably park in a trailer park or RV park, but then you are paying "rent" so what's the sense of owning a home?
Third you'll need a truck or SUV to pull this thing, so that means using an inefficient vehicle for commuting, or at least renting a truck when moving time comes.
This is the opposite end of the spectrum from the Mc Mansion, but it's still extreme. I'd prefer a happy medium of something like 600 sq. ft.
Finally, for those of us nearing retirement, climbing up a ladder to the loft bedroom is very unappealing.
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Oh my husband and I are totally on board with the tiny house movement! Except...we have to wait until our kid goes off to college (8 more years lol).
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Yes, absolutely. My wife and I (and dog and cat) live in 375 square feet now. I think eventually we'll have to upgrade to something with 50-100 more square feet, but no more than that.
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If it was just me and my wife then yes but with a kid I need more than 500 square feet, sorry if that is not mustachian.
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The wife and I live in 416 sqft now. We used to live in a 200-250ish sqft tiny house (though we didn't think of it like that, this was back in 2006 before tumbleweed homes and the tiny house movement existed), but we could definitely go smaller than that. We'd like to downsize to smaller once we FIRE and have a kid, actually. Soon, hopefully. :)
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My wife and I could, but not with the kids. Definitely not when they become teenagers.
We already live in a 'small' house (1200 sf), at least for our area and family size. I could shave a couple hundred feet off without a sweat (we don't really use one of the bathrooms, never use the 'sauna' and could lose the hall to both of them). But I'll give up my workshop when I'm dead and not before (it's a separate building and about 500 sf on its own).
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Nope
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Family lived in an RV (converted bookmobile) for the better part of a year. I believe it was about 8 feet wide, with about 25 feet of living space (plus a washer/dryer where the passenger seat used to be). That's about 200 square feet. Family of four, and we started with four cats.
I don't think I could full time like that again, but I could summer in Alaska like that no problem.
We did camper hosting for the Anchorage school district! Pretty good location, almost walking distance to the hospital my wife worked at (until we had to move, darn school year started). Great views. Was a bit disconcerting when we woke up to a dog show going on outside.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house. It seems like just another way to keep up with the Jones. Most of the examples that I have seen don't make sense financially, but oh they look so cool and have all these cool features packed into a tiny little space.
I live in a 900sqf home with two children and we plan on having more. I think it is a good size and with 2 bedrooms at least DW and I can have our out bedroom. Seriously how would you have sex in a 200sqf home if you had a kid??? Also I don't think downsizing would accomplish anything we already don't pay anything for heating or cooling so I can't see how having a smaller place would help us save any money.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I think you should give most Mustachians more credit than that.
We don't tend to do things for status or appearance.
The appeal of having a tiny house is for the utility and function. I like having less space. We have way too much right now at 416 sqft. We'd love to have less, and be more efficient.
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We lived on a sailboat until I was about 9 years old and my brother was 15. It's doable, but I don't want to do it, even being on land where you're less constrained (we anchored out, so no stepping off the boat onto a dock and going). We have a giant clown house now, and I often pine for a smaller, more efficient and cozy place, but I think for two of us, a perfectly designed 1,200 sf house is about as small as I'd like to go. For one thing, I do a lot of cooking and preserving, which takes space for storage as well as the canning process. My husband is one of those people who thinks the TV needs to be on all the time, so being stuck in a too-small place, well, the TV would probably end up with a knife through the screen or something.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I could give you dozens of reasons why I prefer a tiny house over a regular-sized house (whatever it means in your necks of the woods), and none of them has anything to do with keeping up with the Jones or status, and everything to do with being mustachian and living a balanced and sustainable lifestyle where things don't matter as much -or not at all for a fact- as experiences. At this moment, my wife, 18-year old daughter and myself live in a 790 sq. ft. condo, and we have more space than we need in order to live a pleasant and convivial lifestyle and to store all our "stuff".
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I think you should give most Mustachians more credit than that.
We don't tend to do things for status or appearance.
The appeal of having a tiny house is for the utility and function. I like having less space. We have way too much right now at 416 sqft. We'd love to have less, and be more efficient.
You just say you're not keeping up with the Jones' because my house is smaller than yours. (...kidding!)
I have a tiny place for the same reason. The idea of furnishing/decorating/cleaning/maintaining a larger space gives me hives. It takes us about 2 hours to deep clean our place. Two hours. It's dreamy.
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In my alternate life, where I'm not married and have only 1 pet, a nice tidy cat, I live in a tiny 500 sq ft house with a huge garden. IF it has a basement, all the better.
But that's just fantasy. DH comes with hundreds of sq ft of stuff, so we have to live where we can accommodate that. He's got tools and tool and tools, plus he never gets rid of things so he's got items from his high school days.
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We are indeed in the process of designing our little house, more or less along the lines of what these folks have done, with a few modifications to suit our own needs. We bought our land a few weeks ago and we should hopefully start building it ourselves, with the help of a carpenter friend, sometime this summer.
http://tinyhousebuild.com/
Awesome, would love to follow your journey to building that tiny home if you care to post about it. If you don't mind me asking, what part of the country did you buy your land to build your new tiny house on?
We bought land on Gabriola Island off the coast of Nanaimo on the larger Vancouver Island in British Columbia. After researching weather and climate stats, I came to the conclusion that overall, the Gulf Islands have the right mix of what we were looking for, in no particular order: the ocean, good year-round weather perfect for outdoors activities and gardening, quiet rural setting but not far from the city, a great community of like-minded folks who share many of our environmental and social values, including self-sufficiency. I will certainly document our little adventure, including some of the construction faux-pas this unskilled guy will likely do in the process.
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Don't discount the importance of floor plan and optimized space...
I live in a pretty tiny house (not by the OP definition) but I'm going mad, not due to the sq. footage (650sq ft) but the layout. I live in a type of original tiny house, a Philadelphia trinity. Also called a "Father, Son, Holy Ghost" house or a "bandbox" house. They are all over central Philadelphia (and its old Manyunk neighborhoods in the west), mostly mass produced in the very late 1700s through the 1800s as servant homes.
They are literal vertical houses, one room to a floor connected by a small winding pie-wedge staircase and have a square footprint - ranging usually from 10x10 to 16x16 at their largest, most 3 or 4 stories, some 5 if you count a roofdeck. Most of the ones still standing are in the central part of the city and back on small alleyways or courtyards. I live on a 5 foot wide Belgian Block alley and the street, paving and my house are all on protected on the historic register.
Fortunately my house was expanded circa 1967 from 12x12 to 12x20 and the spiral stair was replaced with one that is mostly straight turning only at the bottom and tops. I always wanted to live in one of these houses and when I finally had the means to purchase one I did - they aren't too expensive and they are in the central part of the city making the need for a car obsolete - I walk to work - and utility bills are miniscule. They are by many standards very Mustachian.
But after 7 years, I'm going nuts with the stairs (I can't imagine if I did have the scary winding pie-wedges), my main bedroom and only bathroom not being located on the same floor and just the sheer claustrophobia from the tiny rooms. I absolutely could and would love to live in even less, but I want it open concept and on one floor. After living in this house, a Tumbleweed house is basically my first floor (total claustrophobia) with a loft (bed/bath not on same floor again!) and that would drive me STIR CRAZY.
What's a Philadelphia trinity?
Here's one on AirBNB
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/1287949
Here's one on Zillow in need of updating
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/317-S-Iseminger-St-Philadelphia-PA-19107/10197517_zpid/
Here's a spacious one on Zillow with the pie-wedge column smartly replaced by an open floating staircase
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1220-Panama-St-Philadelphia-PA-19107/10196772_zpid/
My dream these days is much more along these lines -
http://smallhousebliss.com/2014/01/23/sarah-house-an-affordable-green-container-home/
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/23/garden/freedom-in-704-square-feet.html
One floor, big windows, open space, some land around it... I'd be way happier in even in 400 sq. ft home that is optimized, has minimal walls, floor-to-ceiling windows with some kind of view rather than the bandbox in an alley with tiny rooms and a view that is predominately of other brick walls. So no Tumbleweeds for me, but yes, my post-FIRE plans are all about getting out of the city when I no longer need a big, fat corporate salary, moving west and making this a reality!
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What's a Philadelphia trinity?
Those are adorable1 I love tiny old houses, just like I love tiny old cars!
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This is a tiny house I own but it's not habitable. It's about 550 sq feet, it is about 150 years old.
(http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb111/kprp/sept262010036_zpse44bea5e.jpg)
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This is a tiny house I own but it's not habitable. It's about 550 sq feet, it is about 150 years old.
It's adorable! What's wrong with it?
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This is a tiny house I own but it's not habitable. It's about 550 sq feet, it is about 150 years old.
It's adorable! What's wrong with it?
It lacks modern electrical, plumbing, and HVAC systems. It was marginally habitable before we got it but it was unlikely to pass any occupancy permit, necessary when new owners take over. I bought it because
1) it is super cute and I had always wanted one of these 1.5 story Victorians, sort of the quintessential working man's cottage in the Western hemisphere
2) it has a large back yard that we can use to grow stuff -- it's in a neighborhood contiguous to mine
We've put in a new sewer system and completely tuckpointed and finished the front facade with historically correct window and door. DH also did tons of work to stabilize it. We will let the next owner finish out the interior.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I think you should give most Mustachians more credit than that.
We don't tend to do things for status or appearance.
The appeal of having a tiny house is for the utility and function. I like having less space. We have way too much right now at 416 sqft. We'd love to have less, and be more efficient.
I do give mustachians credit but like all humans we like to show off our Badassity, after all most of us have posted here about how much money we are saving and how little gas we are consuming and what our monthly passive cash flow is. Yes we do it to help others and learn from others, but we also do it to see how we stack up to the other Mustachians.
You like having less space now but that might change when you have 1 or 2 screaming babies in your house. That extra bedroom will look a lot more appealing. Also I would think that there are just some things you don't want your children to hear and that would be really hard in a 200sqf house.
When you say more efficient, do you mean you as a person are taking up less space to live, that it takes less resources to build the house, or that you will save more money?
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All of those, yes, but I meant a more streamlined life.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I could give you dozens of reasons why I prefer a tiny house over a regular-sized house (whatever it means in your necks of the woods), and none of them has anything to do with keeping up with the Jones or status, and everything to do with being mustachian and living a balanced and sustainable lifestyle where things don't matter as much -or not at all for a fact- as experiences. At this moment, my wife, 18-year old daughter and myself live in a 790 sq. ft. condo, and we have more space than we need in order to live a pleasant and convivial lifestyle and to store all our "stuff".
Well I wouldn't call 790sqf condo a tiny home that is just a little bit smaller than my home. So I guess it's all in definitions because I don't consider my house tiny at all.
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when I read the title of this thread I completely misinterpreted it. I thought it meant "how many people can you fit into a tiny house" which instantly brought to mind an image of clowns streaming out of a super-tiny house.
ah........ anyway. Lived on a sailboat with 450sqft of below-deck space with 7 people for 68 days and we didn't kill each other. SO and I lived in a 520sqft house for two years but it felt HUGE to us because we had an outdoor eating area, an enormous garden and a covered shop area (like a carport on steroids) where I could do carpentry projects. Our current house is much larger (~900ft) but lacks outdoor space. If/when we move we'll likely go for something smaller (~500sqft)
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I guess I am pushing your definition of tiny. It probably was "small." Wife and I spent 5 years in a 600sqft tool shed. We have since built a house in front of it. It was tight, but by no means uncomfortable.
There are "tiny homes" that are 600 soft, so I think living in that shed is perfectly within the bounds of this question.
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When the 2 kids move out and it is just the wife and I again then yes. We are more planning on going full time in an RV though.
My parents did that for 13 years - lived completely out of an RV and drove from campground to campground, usually spending several weeks at each place. It was an interesting lifestyle. They loved it.
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I wouldn't get the appeal of having a tiny house "just to have a tiny house" either. But MOST people who have tiny houses probably have more legitimate reasons for living in them. I don't live in a tiny house, but my wife and I are considering it not only because of the reduced cost of ownership, but also due a reduced maintenance requirements. Less house = less to maintain.
And most of all, we just don't need some 1500 sqft house. Our needs are relatively modest.
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If it had a yard to grow stuff and I could also own a workshop with enough room for all my tools and projects it might be doable. As it is now, I'm a packrat though and keep everything which makes simple living kind of hard. Must throw crap away.
Thinking about this tho had me realize there IS another option for independence beside regular home ownership. Owning a home in Southern California AND early retiring is impossible on most salaries here, but hell renting a small place in a decent city is doable enough with a small shop on the side. Thanks for widening my horizons!
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so... I'll throw this out there from our experiences living in the shed:
* The secret is in planning to the Nth degree. I might even say get help from someone that makes tiny house plans professionally. They've worked through the problems of optimizing space. Our tool shed house was not thought out well. Oddly shaped rooms, poorly thought out sizes/shapes and no real thought to convertible space.
* Our kitchen was bad. Or, as the wife would say: our "kitchen" was bad. Just a few tweaks would have gotten us more cabinet space. Cooking/cleanup was a juggling exercise. There was no ventilation and the AC didn't really make it there, making it very hot with the refrigerator dumping heat and the stove running.
* Our AC was undersized. We had 2 window units on either side of the house. They were cheap Home Depot brand and didn't last. They were also powered by 120v, making them very inefficient.
* There are times it would be nice to have at least a second half bath. But: we lived.
* We did have lots of storage. I think this is important. It was a 1200 sqft shop building and 600sqft was converted to living quarters / 600 left as raw shop.
I will say: I very fondly look back on this time as one of the best times in my life. We were living very low and having a whole lot of fun. While I would do it differently in retrospect: I DO NOT regret doing it.
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* The secret is in planning to the Nth degree. I might even say get help from someone that makes tiny house plans professionally. They've worked through the problems of optimizing space.
(snip)
This reminds me of something Sarah Susanka mentioned in The Not So Big House; (paraphrasing) Several people can live harmoniously on a well-designed sailboat while a couple can feel cramped in a poorly designed 2,000+sqft house.
After living on a sailboat I concur. Smart design is everything - a tiny house can feel more spacious and function better than something twice its size if it is done well and reflects how the users actually live.
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so... I'll throw this out there from our experiences living in the shed:
* The secret is in planning to the Nth degree. I might even say get help from someone that makes tiny house plans professionally. They've worked through the problems of optimizing space. Our tool shed house was not thought out well. Oddly shaped rooms, poorly thought out sizes/shapes and no real thought to convertible space.
* Our kitchen was bad. Or, as the wife would say: our "kitchen" was bad. Just a few tweaks would have gotten us more cabinet space. Cooking/cleanup was a juggling exercise. There was no ventilation and the AC didn't really make it there, making it very hot with the refrigerator dumping heat and the stove running.
* Our AC was undersized. We had 2 window units on either side of the house. They were cheap Home Depot brand and didn't last. They were also powered by 120v, making them very inefficient.
* There are times it would be nice to have at least a second half bath. But: we lived.
* We did have lots of storage. I think this is important. It was a 1200 sqft shop building and 600sqft was converted to living quarters / 600 left as raw shop.
I will say: I very fondly look back on this time as one of the best times in my life. We were living very low and having a whole lot of fun. While I would do it differently in retrospect: I DO NOT regret doing it.
Out of curiosity, did you have a loft for your bed, or was it all on the same level?
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When we lived in London we lived in a single car garage converted into a studio apartment. It was doable but not a lifestyle that appeals to me. Every time we had a dinner party we had to move furniture outside so everyone could fit. I much prefer having defined living spaces and room to entertain without thinking about logistics. I also think everyone needs their own room eventually, a room of ones own to be creative. My preference is for an oversized apartment, I love high ceilings, a bath and a big pantry to store all my bulk grocery purchases. I imagine there isn't much natural light in these tiny houses because wall space is at a premium. Our garage/studio had high windows and only one small window low enough to see anything, I much prefer an abundance of natural light. I see no reason for going so small with minimal savings and a significant decrease, for myself, in standard of living.
We currently live in a two bedroom apartment with our twin daughters. I love the big living space where my kids can build their train tracks and mini towns. They can let their imagination go wild and its not in anyone's way. I can entertain a large number of people just by moving the dining table up against a wall. If only it had a big pantry it would be perfect but that's more an issue of poor design than lack of space.
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Out of curiosity, did you have a loft for your bed, or was it all on the same level?
All on the same level. Bedroom was an odd, long room that we also had an "office" space in. There was a loft, but the ceilings were so lo as to not be usable. It went to storage and cat litter box.
The area was built out by previous owner. He built the loft for a grand daughter, so it was of munchkin proportions.
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Out of curiosity, did you have a loft for your bed, or was it all on the same level?
All on the same level. Bedroom was an odd, long room that we also had an "office" space in. There was a loft, but the ceilings were so lo as to not be usable. It went to storage and cat litter box.
The area was built out by previous owner. He built the loft for a grand daughter, so it was of munchkin proportions.
Gotcha. Munchkin proportions actually sounds like a good size for my wife and I (even though I'm 6' even, about 210 pounds).
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I don't get the appeal of having a tiny house just to have a tiny house.
I could give you dozens of reasons why I prefer a tiny house over a regular-sized house (whatever it means in your necks of the woods), and none of them has anything to do with keeping up with the Jones or status, and everything to do with being mustachian and living a balanced and sustainable lifestyle where things don't matter as much -or not at all for a fact- as experiences. At this moment, my wife, 18-year old daughter and myself live in a 790 sq. ft. condo, and we have more space than we need in order to live a pleasant and convivial lifestyle and to store all our "stuff".
Well I wouldn't call 790sqf condo a tiny home that is just a little bit smaller than my home. So I guess it's all in definitions because I don't consider my house tiny at all.
If you read what I wrote, I said we are currently living in a 790 sq. ft. condo. I never said it is a tiny house, but I said clearly that it is more space than we need, even with a 18 year-old daughter. This was a follow up response to my original post above which says that I am in the process of designing a tiny house of about 200 sq. ft more or less similar to this one.
http://tinyhousebuild.com/
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I have no problem with the tiny house portion. My problem is having to be dependent on a larger home base for electricity, water, land, etc. That makes it no different than an RV. I also don't like that most of them involve some sort of loft bed. For various reasons that wouldn't work for me. Otherwise it would be ideal!
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I currently live in a 270 sq ft studio and there's plenty of room. I suppose things would change if there were more people in the equation.
I do eventually want a garage/work space. Right now it's difficult to work on my car/bike/projects without a dedicated space. Would be nice to protect my car from the elements too.
Space for a small garden would be great too.
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In my imagination, I would live in a much smaller space than currently. Living with parents in 3300 sq ft does have benefits as in they are far away from me it's like I'm not living w/them. And having a lot of space to walk around in is plus and minus.
Moving out I would definitely live in smaller place but maybe not in those tiny homes I watch alot on Youtube. Those homes would be more a vacation cabin or getaway/emergency house for me if anything. Ideally a condo/townhouse or small sf home is enough for me.
I think long-term tiny homes are definitely worth it. You save money on furniture, heating, cleaning, property tax, the house itself (no mortgage likely and no interest). You save time because it forces you to be more organized, not having so many places to put things like in big house would make things easier to find. I always thought of tiny homes as pretty Mustachian, only taking the essentials you need in life. Of course w/family or spouse, it becomes a lot more difficult. Tiny homes IMO make good college dorm rooms, post-grad working but not married dwellings at least.
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Seriously how would you have sex in a 200sqf home if you had a kid???
I'm glad I'm not the only person who wonders this EVERY time I see a family living in a tiny home!
In my alternate life, where I'm not married and have only 1 pet, a nice tidy cat, I live in a tiny 500 sq ft house with a huge garden. IF it has a basement, all the better.
But that's just fantasy. DH comes with hundreds of sq ft of stuff, so we have to live where we can accommodate that. He's got tools and tool and tools, plus he never gets rid of things so he's got items from his high school days.
Basically this. By myself, I could totally do it as long as I had good outdoor space. I like the idea of simplicity, not spending so much time cleaning, not spending time looking for items because you just can't have that much stuff. I do not think my boyfriend would be at all happy in a tiny house, so it will never happen :)
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I am in the minority around these parts but i think they are stupid and no way would I willing live in one. I like my space, I dont like clutter, I want room to work on projects, I like to have guests over and room to sit. It is dark and winter here4 months of the year and I stay inside for the most part.
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Nope, couldn't do it long term. Our house is 1600 sq ft, and I know we could easily cut it in half and be fine. Our old apartment was 1000 sq ft and we didn't even use all of that space. Smaller than 800 sq ft and I'd go batty.
Small house? Yes! Tiny house? No!
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I am with AgileTurtle - I am cooped up so much in the winter that I need some space. There is a reason people used to get cabin fever! The down side of being retired is that you are not heading off to a job every day, where you have a change of scenery and people to interact with. If I didn't bestir myself I could stay home for a week without seeing anyone.
Plus at this point the fewer stairs the better - no way would I want to sleep in a loft.
I know my present house is too big, but it is almost impossible to find anything much smaller around here. Even old farm houses are bigger - and all the stairs!
A summer cottage, on the other hand, would be fine if small - but summer cottages attract visitors (welcome ones), and the weather is not always perfect, so there is still some square footage needed just to have some place to put the bodies on a bad weather day. A screened porch helps, but is not enough.
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My wife and I would like to do it but with 3 kids under 4 years old, we think it will be too difficult as they grow up. But full time RVing does sound interesting.
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I am in the minority around these parts but i think they are stupid and no way would I willing live in one. I like my space, I dont like clutter, I want room to work on projects, I like to have guests over and room to sit. It is dark and winter here4 months of the year and I stay inside for the most part.
It is fine not to want to live in a tiny house because they don't fit your lifestyle, but at the very least, you should refrain from using the word "stupid" to describe what a lot of people on this forum like. We may have different tastes and opinions, but stupid is not a way to describe these differences.
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I am in the minority around these parts but i think they are stupid and no way would I willing live in one. I like my space, I dont like clutter, I want room to work on projects, I like to have guests over and room to sit. It is dark and winter here4 months of the year and I stay inside for the most part.
It is fine not to want to live in a tiny house because they don't fit your lifestyle, but at the very least, you should refrain from using the word "stupid" to describe what a lot of people on this forum like. We may have different tastes and opinions, but stupid is not a way to describe these differences.
I wasnt calling any person stupid, I was calling tiny houses stupid. I know some people on here like them, that doesnt mean I dont think the houses are dumb. I think the whole idea of them is a fad. Most the ones I see pic of look like trash. I also think it would be anti-mustiaian to go with it just because others are. I have family that live in small houses, trailers, and shacks out of necessity and it is far less glamorous than the internet lets you think. I grew up in really tight quarters and it sucked.
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Nope, couldn't do it long term. Our house is 1600 sq ft, and I know we could easily cut it in half and be fine. Our old apartment was 1000 sq ft and we didn't even use all of that space. Smaller than 800 sq ft and I'd go batty.
Small house? Yes! Tiny house? No!
Tiny homes can be built around 1000 sqft. When we talk "tiny house", it doesn't necessarily mean that you're living in a 250 sqft shack.
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I think long-term tiny homes are definitely worth it. You save money on furniture, heating, cleaning, property tax, the house itself (no mortgage likely and no interest). You save time because it forces you to be more organized, not having so many places to put things like in big house would make things easier to find. I always thought of tiny homes as pretty Mustachian, only taking the essentials you need in life. Of course w/family or spouse, it becomes a lot more difficult. Tiny homes IMO make good college dorm rooms, post-grad working but not married dwellings at least.
I partially disagree with this. Tiny houses do not exist free unless they are mooching off someone. Also, you are not forced to buy furniture for your house, you can have a house with as much furniture as your tiny house. Home furnaces running on natural gas are far more efficient than almost all the heating sources of tiny houses.
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Most the ones I see pic of look like trash. I also think it would be anti-mustiaian to go with it just because others are. I have family that live in small houses, trailers, and shacks out of necessity and it is far less glamorous than the internet lets you think. I grew up in really tight quarters and it sucked.
Lol.
I don't know what pictures you're looking at, but whatever they are, they don't represent what a tiny home can look like. You may be looking at homes built by the homeowner to the best of their ability.
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Nope, couldn't do it long term. Our house is 1600 sq ft, and I know we could easily cut it in half and be fine. Our old apartment was 1000 sq ft and we didn't even use all of that space. Smaller than 800 sq ft and I'd go batty.
Small house? Yes! Tiny house? No!
Tiny homes can be built around 1000 sqft. When we talk "tiny house", it doesn't necessarily mean that you're living in a 250 sqft shack.
OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
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Nope, couldn't do it long term. Our house is 1600 sq ft, and I know we could easily cut it in half and be fine. Our old apartment was 1000 sq ft and we didn't even use all of that space. Smaller than 800 sq ft and I'd go batty.
Small house? Yes! Tiny house? No!
Tiny homes can be built around 1000 sqft. When we talk "tiny house", it doesn't necessarily mean that you're living in a 250 sqft shack.
OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
Im with you. If we are calling 1000sqft tiny houses. I lived in a whole neighborhood of Mustachians. Tiny homes, used cars or no car, some even temporally retired.
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OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
yes, we certainly need some sort of definition here or we're all arguing about different things. According to "Mr Google" there's no agreed-upon definition, but one builder lists their tiny homes as between 117-874 sqft. Most of the ones that I am seeing are in the range of 300-500 sqft, but a few fall under the 300 sqft mark, and I've encountered a few listed as a "tiny house" that are around 900 sqft.
The median sqft of a single-family home in the US is 2,384, so even something that's 800sqft is about 1/3 of what a 'normal' sized home is. For me that fits the definition of a tiny house. Others will be more extreme, refusing to call a 596sqft house "tiny" even though it's 1/4 of the size of the median new single-family home in the US.
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OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
It is not my place to "define" how big tiny homes can be. If you look at tiny home offerings from builders and blue prints that can be bought through a variety of services, tiny homes come in all different types of shapes and sizes, anywhere from 100sqft to 1000sqft. I am not aware of any upper limit cutoff where a tiny house graduates to "small house" stature. :)
MOST tiny homes are considerably smaller than 1000, but they don't have to be 200sqft, either.
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I not only could, it's part of our FIRE plan to live in a Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter Van -- 25mpg diesel, 120 or so square feet. We'll sell the house when the kids head off to college and live sporadically in our beach house rental property when it's not occupied. (It rents on a weekly basis mostly between May and October).
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I not only could, it's part of our FIRE plan to live in a Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter Van -- 25mpg diesel, 120 or so square feet. We'll sell the house when the kids head off to college and live sporadically in our beach house rental property when it's not occupied. (It rents on a weekly basis mostly between May and October).
Okay, now that's taking the concept of a tiny home to a whole new dimension. :)
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OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
yes, we certainly need some sort of definition here or we're all arguing about different things. According to "Mr Google" there's no agreed-upon definition, but one builder lists their tiny homes as between 117-874 sqft. Most of the ones that I am seeing are in the range of 300-500 sqft, but a few fall under the 300 sqft mark, and I've encountered a few listed as a "tiny house" that are around 900 sqft.
The median sqft of a single-family home in the US is 2,384, so even something that's 800sqft is about 1/3 of what a 'normal' sized home is. For me that fits the definition of a tiny house. Others will be more extreme, refusing to call a 596sqft house "tiny" even though it's 1/4 of the size of the median new single-family home in the US.
I always thought tiny homes were non permanent structure homes built on trailer frames. If we are calling a 900sft brick house a tiny house I am all for them. But there is no way that is the same thing as a 250sqft wooden box secured to a trailer frame. A 900sqft house isnt even that small or out of the ordinary. Half the houses were i grew up were around that size and no one talked about it like it was weird.
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OK we really need to get a solid definition of a tiny house because according to your 1000 sqft number I live in a tiny home and that is just not possible because I am Anti-Tiny home. :).
yes, we certainly need some sort of definition here or we're all arguing about different things. According to "Mr Google" there's no agreed-upon definition, but one builder lists their tiny homes as between 117-874 sqft. Most of the ones that I am seeing are in the range of 300-500 sqft, but a few fall under the 300 sqft mark, and I've encountered a few listed as a "tiny house" that are around 900 sqft.
The median sqft of a single-family home in the US is 2,384, so even something that's 800sqft is about 1/3 of what a 'normal' sized home is. For me that fits the definition of a tiny house. Others will be more extreme, refusing to call a 596sqft house "tiny" even though it's 1/4 of the size of the median new single-family home in the US.
I always thought tiny homes were non permanent structure homes built on trailer frames. If we are calling a 900sft brick house a tiny house I am all for them. But there is no way that is the same thing as a 250sqft wooden box secured to a trailer frame. A 900sqft house isnt even that small or out of the ordinary. Half the houses were i grew up were around that size and no one talked about it like it was weird.
Tiny homes aren't necessarily built on trailer frames. As I understand it, some jurisdictions force you to keep them "mobile" if they are under a certain square footage, but that's not true everywhere. I watched an episode of House Hunters last night that showed three tiny homes (all under 700 sq. ft) and none of them were "mobile".
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I always thought tiny homes were non permanent structure homes built on trailer frames. If we are calling a 900sft brick house a tiny house I am all for them. But there is no way that is the same thing as a 250sqft wooden box secured to a trailer frame. A 900sqft house isnt even that small or out of the ordinary. Half the houses were i grew up were around that size and no one talked about it like it was weird.
Well there you go :-) My grandfather used to say that half of all disagreements faded away once you carefully defined what you were talking about.
No, I don't consider tiny homes to be non-permanent structure homes on trailer frames. While those certainly apply, I think it's a small subset of the total number of 'tiny homes'. Those certainly take a special sort of person and mentality to live in that even a lot of mustachians might find difficult. But there are lots of permanent designs as well. My former residence was a free-standing structure that was right at the 500sqft mark. It was incredibly well designed and 'felt' bigger than most places I've lived, despite the diminutive square footage, largely because of the windows and outdoor spaces. My landlord built the place himself from a set of professional plans, and it cost him something like $50k.
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Well there you go :-) My grandfather used to say that half of all disagreements faded away once you carefully defined what you were talking about.
No, I don't consider tiny homes to be non-permanent structure homes on trailer frames. While those certainly apply, I think it's a small subset of the total number of 'tiny homes'. Those certainly take a special sort of person and mentality to live in that even a lot of mustachians might find difficult. But there are lots of permanent designs as well. My former residence was a free-standing structure that was right at the 500sqft mark. It was incredibly well designed and 'felt' bigger than most places I've lived, despite the diminutive square footage, largely because of the windows and outdoor spaces. My landlord built the place himself from a set of professional plans, and it cost him something like $50k.
You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of that design, would you? Just curious.
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Family of 5 in 740 sqft and a basement. The basement gives us storage, utility space, and some living space. If you count all of it to make the full house 1400 sqft we are not tiny house territory, but with the current layout it's "just about right". With a better layout it could get smaller, but then you're consuming materials and destroying others for a net benefit of...what, exactly?
So my answer to the OP's question is yes. I don't need huge amounts of living space, even with kids still in the equation, but count me as one who also needs a garage/shop and yard. I'd also love to have a greenhouse or atrium. I'd also really want a basement or some other subterranean structure to function as root cellar / longer term food storage.
I think allowing "tiny house" up to 1,000 sqft is rather silly. IMO the rule of thumb should be not much more than 250/person.
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To elaborate on my 'nope' up above, I could not be comfortable or happy in a small space in the current phase of my life. Heck we just doubled the space of our home and I am LOVING it.
Having said that, my (older, half-) sister and her partner live in a caravan for the summer months, and a 2-room house they own for the winter, and rent out over summer. They live in a fairly popular tourist part of the country, so have no trouble renting out the house, and also the winters are jolly cold, and their caravan was not much fun the first time they tried to winter in it.
She LOVES the caravan, says it feels like she's on holiday all summer, even though she goes to work each day, and she loves how little cleaning there is to do in the place. They have storage in the garage of their house.
But: no kids, no pets, no space-taking hobbies, just the two of them in a permanent site at a caravan park, with a deck and a tiny garden around them. And only for the good-weather half of the year.
For me: almost 4 kids, quilter (thus fabric stash, machines, works in progress...), gamer husband (thus, many board games and shelving for MtG), homeschooling (thus books and more books, and all the kids' works in progress...) I say 'no way'. But we won't always be at this life stage, and who knows what we'll choose once the kids have flown the coop?
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I love that small house bliss site. I lived in a 700 sqft home and now I'm in 800 sqft with a basement. I like this home better because I like the design better. What I like about the tiny homes is that you get to design it for YOUR needs. From what Ive read its seems that everyone finds something lacking so they then build their own. My favorites are the one already listed and the minim home (http://minimhomes.com/photos/) You can build tiny homes that dont have loft bedrooms. Building these looks like fun. It is something that you can do with little skills and learn as you go along. It also makes you question the things you own.
I go back and forth on owning a small condo or a tiny cabin with acres of land. There is also just staying put in the house I have now. A condo with a balcony to grow a few things lets me travel without worrying about maintaining my yard while I'm away. A tiny cabin with lots of land and not worrying about bothering the neighbors would be nice too. For right now its just something fun to think about while bored at work.
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I really want to live in a tiny house (the 200 sq. ft. built on a trailer variety). I don't want one just to have one. I want one because theoretically it's a way to substantially reduce my main expense (housing) while living a minimalist lifestyle. Over time I could save and invest a higher percentage of income which would in turn allow me to reach FIRE earlier. I've done a ton of research and sadly I just don't think there's a way to make it work here. The space isn't the problem...the small space is one of the benefits in my opinion. You can design your own home to suit your needs and some of the designs are ingenious. Plus, the tiny house would be too small for any rampant consumerism. The problem is finding a place to put it (where you're not still subject to huge rent increases for the use of the land). In Seattle you'd also be at the mercy of being reported since there is no way to legally live in a mobile tiny house within the current building code framework. For me it doesn't make economic sense to buy a $300k+ piece of land just to have a place to put a <$25K tiny house. At that point, you'd be better off buying a small condo in the city.
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Not the ones with ladders. At 58, I need to get up and pee in the middle of the night and I DO NOT want to climb down a ladder or pee in a pot to accomplish this. Some of the tiny houses that are all on one floor would suit me fine, but DH needs room for his electronics equipment, which would require its own not-so-tiny house. Right now we are at 1800 sf, which is too big for me and too small for DH. So, in the spirit of compromise, it must be just right.
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With two of us living in just under 140 square ft. there are definitely some trade-offs. The advantages are amazing (affordable homeownership in an expensive area; control of our own living space; it's lovely..). The disadvantages are that even with an excellent layout and plenty of storage, it is a little small. In an ideal world we would have another 100 or so square ft. plus a shop that was bigger then the house. We talk about building additional free standing units as our lives and needs change, but I would not be at all surprised if we live in our little house for a very long time.
In my mind a tiny house is probably less than 350 sq ft, but not necessarily built on a trailer frame. A small house is less than ~700 or 800, and anything bigger then that is huge.
So much of the drive for larger spaces seems to come down to how much stuff a person owns. There is a certain cultural minimum where you have enough space to get away from each other, cook, and not trip over anything essential when trying to get to the bathroom, but beyond that point it seems like its all a culturally constructed, self reinforcing "need". For the two of us, I suspect the comfortable (luxurious?) minimum is close to 250 square ft. with a loft, and the 140 we have is quite doable if sometimes slightly awkward. We have had to let go of some possessions that we cared about to do it, but holding onto piles of books and pretty things does not feel like a legitimate need when compared to the benefits that our house has given us.
Edited to add: redbirdfan: you may want to reconsider. Our response when we posted an advertisement looking for a place to park was extremely positive. We are not in Seattle, but we are not exactly rural either. We rent a spot and are more visible then I would like by a long shot. It is possible we will have problems in the future but if we do I suspect we will be able to find another spot pretty easily. Mentally, it helps that we are in the area that I grew up, so if it becomes harder to fly under the radar we would still have a pretty good network of possible parking places that would welcome us. They would come with longer commutes then what we currently enjoy though.
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Where does one put a tiny house? It has to go somewhere; do you buy a plot of land someplace? You can't really put in in a neighborhood because everybody would surely freak out.
I could do the RV thing though, definitely. There's a million free places to camp if you don't mind being out in the middle of nowhere, and all my stuff fits comfortably into my car anyway.
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I am in the minority around these parts but i think they are stupid and no way would I willing live in one. I like my space, I dont like clutter, I want room to work on projects, I like to have guests over and room to sit. It is dark and winter here4 months of the year and I stay inside for the most part.
It is fine not to want to live in a tiny house because they don't fit your lifestyle, but at the very least, you should refrain from using the word "stupid" to describe what a lot of people on this forum like. We may have different tastes and opinions, but stupid is not a way to describe these differences.
+1
Stupid for one situation maybe but genius for others.
I consider myself in a "tiny house"--mine is a 2003 Alfa Gold 5th wheel. I believe it's 398'. It's got a TON of windows in the living area which is wonderful! It's plenty roomy enough for one. That being said, there are some definite design issues. Someday I'd like to completely redo the bedroom and make it more of a creative space than a room that the bed fills up most of the way. That and I could tear out the TV from the desk area to open it up. I don't watch TV much, but it would be fun to have a white screen to pull down in front of the desk and a projector for inviting people over for movies.
Won't do any kind of renovations until it's paid off though.
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Lived in hotels for two years straight, and I thought living in a camper trailer would be a cakewalk, but then I visited friends who live in one. Nope can't do that, not that I really have the choice.
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Lived in hotels for two years straight, and I thought living in a camper trailer would be a cakewalk, but then I visited friends who live in one. Nope can't do that, not that I really have the choice.
Any particular reason why you say that? Just curious.
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I'm surprising myself when answering this question, but no, I don't think so, I don't think I could live in one of those 8*12 gingerbread house on wheels houses, even though I think they're amazing. I don't need a lot of stuff, and I've spent a lot of time designing small spaces. I used to have a summer cottage that was an excellent 140 feet. But ... I really, really like the feeling of space. Cozy comfy quiet inside private soft carpet and big windows space. I had a studio condo that was 450 sq. which was good for just me, could have used some garage-type work space though. My friend in NYC had a 300 sq space that Might have worked because the ceilings were so tall. But living in a home much smaller than that full time would get on my nerves, I think. I hated RV living.
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Lived in hotels for two years straight, and I thought living in a camper trailer would be a cakewalk, but then I visited friends who live in one. Nope can't do that, not that I really have the choice.
I think it depends on the RV. When I was looking for one to live in I immediately disregarded cramped-looking ones. Mine doesn't have the fold-down table/bed and it has a lot of extra storage up high. I'm not sure how high the ceiling is in it. Maybe 9'? I'm pretty short, so I need a ladder if I really want to get into the high cupboards, but even an average-size person would have a bit of a reach.
Most people are surprised how nice it is when they come in. Everyone basically says some version of the same thing when they walk inside.
Here's a couple pics:
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I think people are attracted to the "tiny house" because of its minimalist aspect as well as the "cool gadget" aspect (folding tables! beds that disappear into walls!), not to mention the privacy of it being your own house and not a unit in a multi-unit building.
Having lived in small European apartments for years, though, I can tell you that the space must be truly well-designed in order to be comfortable instead of simply crowded or non-functional. Our family of five lives in 775 ft2 (2 bedrooms, 1 bath) and we do our best to minimize having furnishings that have to be moved or changed around on a daily basis (sofas that get turned into beds every night, etc.). No matter how cool as they look in the plans, after you've had to keep up with these things for a while they start to be annoying. Also, having lots of furniture and narrow spaces means that cleaning is tricky. I saw a "tiny house" plan once that had a kitchen counter that folded down over the stairs up to the loft bedroom. Perhaps this would work for some people, but it just seemed like a nightmare to me (you'd have to wash your dishes just to move the counter so you could run upstairs and get the book you left up there).
A small place does promote tidiness and not accumulating too much stuff (because there's no place to put it), but with three active kids it can be a challenge, and I wouldn't want to go any smaller until all the kids are out of the house.
Edited to add: I also think if a "tiny house" isn't well designed you'll end up paying a lot for utilities despite the small size. A unit in a multi-unit building is likely to be a lot cheaper in that regard.
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Fun topic! We are older and retired and find our current 2500 sq ft too much. We would feel comfortable in a well designed 1000 sq ft place, (2 BR 2baths + garage) but no smaller due to our hobbies, visiting family, and entertaining. I think design is very important as is the ability to borrow space, like an outdoor area or interesting places to walk to and enjoy. We have lived in well designed tiny apartments at universities and that worked well for us as did (for me) lake cottage summer vacations. I like the discussion as it gets at the cultural norm of space and whatyougottahave thinking.
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I've decided the amount of space I need to have is related to how much time spent at home. In North Carolina, the weather was usually good and I spent most of my time outside on the porch. We ended up using half of our 2000 sq ft house. Now in Chicago we spend a lot of time indoors and found 1000 sqft somewhat crowded for no other reason than "cabin fever". Moving to a new place with high ceilings seemed to make a big difference psychologically, and even though it is about 1500 sqft, we only use half of the total space.
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For the last few years I've lived in dorm rooms, rented rooms in houses owned by others, and in barracks rooms. When I get out of Active duty I'll be moving into a van. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm cool with a tiny house.
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I could live in 900 to 1000 sq feet. I need 3 bedrooms. One for my husband and myself, one for guests of which we have frequently and one for my sewing room. Other than the 3 br, I don't need a big living room or kitchen. But, I don't think I could live in a 500 sq foot or less tiny home.
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For the last few years I've lived in dorm rooms, rented rooms in houses owned by others, and in barracks rooms. When I get out of Active duty I'll be moving into a van. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm cool with a tiny house.
Damn, your living expenses definitely put the rest of us to shame, I bet.
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Would rather a tiny apartment (with garage) as I can't stand yard work.
That's kind of my sentiment, too. We have some 500-600 sf condos a block down the street from us that are situated on the same lake as us. I think that would be a perfect size for Mrs. RootofGood and me.
But with 3 kids, we enjoy the 1800 sf we currently have, although we could probably downsize to 1300-1400 without making any real sacrifices. We don't use the 13' x 18' living room and one of the bedrooms tends to have no one sleeping in it.
The sub-200 sf tiny houses would probably feel cramped even with the 2 of us unless we lived in an area where it was nice outdoors year round (not quite there in Raleigh NC). We go on cruises where the cabins are around 200 sf. With a bedroom and a full bathroom and some basic storage areas plus a nice floor plan, it's very workable but cozy. I could see how it might work though. I just wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time in a 200 sf cabin.
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For the last few years I've lived in dorm rooms, rented rooms in houses owned by others, and in barracks rooms. When I get out of Active duty I'll be moving into a van. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm cool with a tiny house.
But will you park it down by the river?
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I couldn't do it. I have/foster too many cats, and have too many creative hobbies/side gigs that demand work- and storage space. Also, living in Seattle where we get rained on for at least eight months of the year, i'd get pretty twitchy cooped up in a small space--especially if creating efficient small-living space meant less window area and natural light.
If I lived in a tiny house, I'd have to have a heated shop/studio on the same property. Two buildings to heat and maintain instead of one. Where's the efficiency in that?
But who knows what the future will bring? When I turn 60, I might have fewer cats, be willing to relinquish some hobbies I don't engage in very often, and make smaller, more portable forms of art. I might also be thoroughly sick of house maintenance, by then.
So I have a fantasy of going full-time in a smaller RV (that I've gutted and re-worked to my personal specs). I could go spend the winters on my sister's property in SoCal, then make a leisurely ramble back north in the spring. If I felt like spending the summer in the San Juans, or up in the mountains, or out on the coast, I could! And then back to SoCal when I'd had enough wintry gray and wet, where I could go out to the desert, or camp near the beach to give my poor BIL a break from me, lol.
Being permanently settled in a tiny house has no appeal for me, but I've always--ever since childhood--been attracted to living as a nomad in a van or RV. I know it's not a practical choice, given my current lifestyle, and I'm not motivated to make it one, but who knows? Someday, it could happen. I'm open to that possibility, at least.
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Full disclosure: I live in a rather large 2600 sf home at present. We bought it so my MIL and her pal Al Z. Heimer, along with my husband's college-student son, could live under one roof. It is a little more than we need, but it's also in short walking distance to DH's work. At present, we are enjoying hosting and sharing our spacious home with many different visitors and guests. We both have the hospitality gene and want to feed it now so we won't feel like we've missed anything when we downsize.
We also own a rental home in a resort area. That house has a "casita" which we retain for our own use. It's about 180 sf. We love hanging out there together, but we also understand that we're not really living our regular lives there. Once DH retires and MIL and son no longer live with us, our plan is to own two things. First will be a small home (2+1 ~ 600-750 sf) and second will be a 20' or smaller RV. We like the idea of a home base and flexibility.
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A post from http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/tiny-houses-23269/ (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/mustachianism-around-the-web/tiny-houses-23269/)
I've always had a love for mobile dwellings. I came across Jay Shafer and his Tumbleweed Tiny Homes back in 2008 and in 2010 I got a chance to visit one that came up my way. Before I met my partner later that year it was my plan to work a few more years and then take a break to build one and forgo rent! Alas it was a bit too extreme for my not-entirely-mustachian other half.
Edit: See pic (with spelling error) below of the Tiny House! :-P
(http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2014/270/b/7/b79bc30b362c86b722908503aefbfb2c-d80rfpt.png)
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For the last few years I've lived in dorm rooms, rented rooms in houses owned by others, and in barracks rooms. When I get out of Active duty I'll be moving into a van. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm cool with a tiny house.
Damn, your living expenses definitely put the rest of us to shame, I bet.
Yeah, they're pretty low. However, most of it is unnecessary and I get paid very little. So there's ups and downs. :)
For the last few years I've lived in dorm rooms, rented rooms in houses owned by others, and in barracks rooms. When I get out of Active duty I'll be moving into a van. So yeah, I guess you could say I'm cool with a tiny house.
But will you park it down by the river?
That depends on whether it's about to flood and if it's a pretty river. But I probably will at some point. Then I can fish right there and cook right on the banks. I love rivers. And oceans and lakes. I'll probably park on a few beaches as well.
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All right, here's an ultimate tiny house for y'all:
http://www.dezeen.com/2014/12/18/bureau-a-antoine-mountain-hideaway-concrete-boulder-swiss-alps/
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I could, yes. I don't want to, though - with roommates my 1825sq ft house is making me money. :)
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I could and have lived with less for half my adulthood. I find it cheaper to live with roomates in a normal size house. While in the military I owned almost nothing. I lived like for a long time. When I moved in with my now wife all I owned was some clothes, a laptop and a paid off car. I was sleeping on a used mattress on the floor with no other furniture before her.
I like my quality of life more now. I could go back to nothing, but have become soft with living in a home. Maybe if I keep lurking around and reading I can get back to my old ways.
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My family of 5 regularly hosts guests in our 750 ft2. There's a foldout couch in the living room that makes a very comfortable bed. During the day the same room features a table that expands to seat 10. Our guests have never complained about the small space.
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My wife and I have watched HGTV's (I think) "Tiny House Nation", and have observed the folks building very small residences. Forgetting about all the crap made up to presumably make the show more dramatic/interesting/entertaining, we agreed that we could never live in such a small place, and suspect that many of those who plan to don't last too long. I could see living in 300 sq feet if I lived alone, but sharing that sort of limited space with another person (maybe more) would be awfully hard on family relationships. I think people need some space where they can be alone, even for short periods of time...always literally being in the same room with a group of people would, in my opinion, be a real challenge. More power to those who can make it work though.
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A question about small living. What do you do when family and friends come. For example, my son and girlfriend and dog just arrived. Our place is 1100 or 1200sqft. And that's tight. How do you host friend or family gatherings? I'd love to go smaller :-)
I grew up in a house under 1200 sq ft and was in a family of seven. We regularly had 14 to 30 family members and friends hang out. If it gets too tight in the house, just move outside (we lived on ten acres). If you live in a city and/or don't have the outside option, learn to be tolerant of other people. You should be ok with family and friends being close to you. :)
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My wife and I have watched HGTV's (I think) "Tiny House Nation", and have observed the folks building very small residences. Forgetting about all the crap made up to presumably make the show more dramatic/interesting/entertaining, we agreed that we could never live in such a small place, and suspect that many of those who plan to don't last too long. I could see living in 300 sq feet if I lived alone, but sharing that sort of limited space with another person (maybe more) would be awfully hard on family relationships. I think people need some space where they can be alone, even for short periods of time...always literally being in the same room with a group of people would, in my opinion, be a real challenge. More power to those who can make it work though.
I think it's interesting when people use phrases like "won't last long" to give the idea that something is a fad or not well-thought out by the people who try it. Like they "learned a lesson" when they quit.
Most people attracted to these homes are generally fall into two main categories: young singles/couples and older retired singles/couples.I believe the singles make up the largest majority though. For people like this, tiny houses are incredibly smart and economical. If someone starts a family and it gets larger, then it may be practical to move to something bigger, but that doesn't mean that living in a tiny house was fad or a "phase" any more than living in a tiny apartment was or living with roommates as a bachelor was.
All aspects of life involve change. I think it's much more valuable to be able to live in a way that makes the most sense for your current situation and change/adapt it when you need to, rather than say, buying a house in your early 20s with your entry-level salary to fill up with your future spouse, 5 kids, a dog, 2 cars, a truck, hobby toys etc because it's your dream "forever" home.
Also, I've noticed that people with tiny homes tend to actually live a life outside of their homes which is a wonderful benefit to Mustachians. There's always parks you can go to, other friends to visit and do fun things with or things to do outside.
I also think that when large families live in small places, that's how they do it without going crazy. DH can be inside cooking dinner while DW is outside gardening. DS can be playing with trucks out in the yard while DD is reading a book in the shade. Everyone's together inside for meals and sleeping. During the day the kids are in school or socializing with friends or participating in extra curriculars. Mom and dad will be at work or if they're retired doing whatever they want like biking to the store for groceries or helping a neighbor with a renovation project, or writing a book with a laptop in a comfy local cafe.
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When I was single I was planning on a 320 or 360 sq foot house for myself. Now that I'm married, I can't decide if I prefer a small house or an RV. Ideally we could afford both. To save money we don't want a newer or huge RV, so it may be under 240 sq feet. That will be cramped with the pets. I'd probably spend on a bigger RV if I had the money to spare.
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I'm single and I live in a 500 square foot studio. I could go smaller as long as the space wasn't taken from the bathroom, kitchen, or walk-in closet. The huge benefit is low electric bills - electric heating/cooling/water heater/appliances, bill never rises above $68 in a given month.
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I could do it if I was single...I brought it up to DH after watching an episode of one of those shows recently. His response was "I spent way too much time living in tiny spaces in the Marine Corps and I refuse to ever do it again. I need SPACE." I don't think I can really argue with that. We currently have ~1000 sq ft for just us and 3 big dogs :(
And if I was single, I'd be back to spending 80% of my free time in a horse barn, so I could probably do with <200 sq ft, if the bed was lofted. My horse trainer lives in a 5th wheel camper on her farm, with 2 large dogs. She works 12+ hour days and is basically only "home" to eat quickly, collapse into bed, and shower in the morning. I think outdoor living is definitely the way tiny house dwellers stay sane.
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I think that I can but I worry about safety/security from weather, vandals, intruders etc.
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http://www.foxsanantonio.com/news/features/top-stories/stories/tiny-house-recovered-after-neighbors-see-news-coverage-9371.shtml#.VLIQUKDnbqB
Yeah, you could have a different set of security concerns versus a fixed structure.
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I definitely could. I've lived in huge 4500 square feet pool-mansions and tiny studio apartments, and I've been equally happy in both. When my son is moving away from home I would consider building something like this.
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
Not shooting down the idea, I actually LOVE it for environmental and minimalist reasons. I just don't know how to solve the "noise" issue. I also really don't like the idea of a kid walking in on sex, particularly if something less-than-mainstream is occuring.
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
Not shooting down the idea, I actually LOVE it for environmental and minimalist reasons. I just don't know how to solve the "noise" issue. I also really don't like the idea of a kid walking in on sex, particularly if something less-than-mainstream is occuring.
You just revealed yourself in so many ways.
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You just revealed yourself in so many ways.
I suppose it depends on one's definition of conventional/mainstream in the 21st century.
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No way. I'm need space. Right now, I am in a 950 sq foot apt. A little bigger would be okay, especially the kitchen. I love looking at those little houses though. Would love one as a vacation house.
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
Not shooting down the idea, I actually LOVE it for environmental and minimalist reasons. I just don't know how to solve the "noise" issue. I also really don't like the idea of a kid walking in on sex, particularly if something less-than-mainstream is occuring.
What did Ma and Pa Ingalls and the millions of other couples in human history who lived in one room with their kids do? I guess you pick your moments and keep it down?
As for me I could totally live in a tiny house, but I wouldn't want to sleep in a loft. I like this one: http://minimhomes.com
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Ma and Pa likely had much different sex lives than people today. Point taken, though. I guess the answer is that I'm not willing to live in one with kids living under the same roof. I'm not willing to have to limit things to that level.
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I'm single and I live in a 500 square foot studio. I could go smaller as long as the space wasn't taken from the bathroom, kitchen, or walk-in closet. The huge benefit is low electric bills - electric heating/cooling/water heater/appliances, bill never rises above $68 in a given month.
To me, this is one of the most beneficial things about living in a tiny home - both the low utility costs and relatively short maintenance periods (i.e. it would probably only take you 5 to 10 minutes to vacuum the entire house). Clean up should be pretty simple.
Of course, you'd have to learn not to be a pack rat, too - can't store nearly as much crap in these homes as you could in a traditional home...actually, I think I just stumbled upon another benefit. :)
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I definitely get the appeal of living in a tiny house and paring down your "stuff" (why is "stuff" always placed in quotations?) to the bare essentials. But I've looked around at tiny houses and, well, they aren't exactly cheap. Unless I'm missing something the plans I saw run 80-100k. I happened to come across this website yesterday http://wheelhaus.com/the-wedge/. Where I live, undeveloped lots are difficult to come by and run about 200k. Then you would have utility connections and sewer hookup to the tune of maybe 5k. So you are looking at around 300k when all is said and done. This is more than we paid for our conventional sized home. From a strict financial perspective, we would be better off renting out the unused bedrooms in our house. Renting out 3 bedrooms would easily cover our mortgage, insurance, taxes and utilities and we'd get to still have a garage, our own bedroom, and plenty of community space to enjoy.
I do like to idea of something that is mobile like an RV or trailer but then you're paying a fee to park it somewhere most of the time.
I guess you could pay to park your tiny house in someone's backyard assuming the laws permit it? I'd like to hear some feedback from people who have figured out realistic ways to do this economically.
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
You only bang at home? There's the whole world out there!
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
You only bang at home? There's the whole world out there!
Ha good point and yes I partake. However, the less-than-conventional stuff does not occur outside the home. I'll stop derailing the thread now.
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I'm sorry if my ADD got the best of me, but it appears that no one answered the practical question re: sex in a tiny house if you tiny little ones running around. I love the idea of such an abode but I really do wonder how you can get away with one of the rowdier times with your SO (or whomever) with kids just a few feet away from you? Also, what about people who live less conventional/mainstream sex lives?
Not shooting down the idea, I actually LOVE it for environmental and minimalist reasons. I just don't know how to solve the "noise" issue. I also really don't like the idea of a kid walking in on sex, particularly if something less-than-mainstream is occuring.
What did Ma and Pa Ingalls and the millions of other couples in human history who lived in one room with their kids do? I guess you pick your moments and keep it down?
As for me I could totally live in a tiny house, but I wouldn't want to sleep in a loft. I like this one: http://minimhomes.com
I wonder if the modern attitude that sex should not take place in front of kids is relatively recent? I mean, one can only keep it down so much.
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Yeah I've read a few books that take place 100 years or so ago. Seems like even when the kids were sleeping in the same room with kids on the floor, mom and dad in bed, it wasn't a big deal. Just the natural way of things. I don't think any kink was involved in that though.
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Also, isn't that what barn lofts were for? :p
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I could never do it. My spouse and I live in a ~950 sq ft apartment. We had a smaller place previously and felt like sardines, it was not good for the relationship.
Part of it is because the SO needs a fair amount of space for books/desk/etc (which are tied to their profession and cannot be digitized, given what spouse does--odd circumstance that I make fun of them for constantly). That takes up a chunk, but not a huge amount. At the end of the day, we could probably fit into 850 if we needed to, but smaller then that would be rough.
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To answer the actual question, I was living with a roommate in my 500 sqft apartment until she went back to school this month, and that was still hella spacious. Place feels like a mansion now that it's just me. I've lived in the equivalent of a large bedroom by myself before and that was pretty nice. Didn't feel like I had to fill up the space with stuff.
I'm in the process of building out a small cargo van to try and live in... 30 sqft usable space. You never know your limits until you surpass them ;-)
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When I moved in my first house (own your own) it cost me ~25K and I asked manager of building to open my door for me so the lights, gas and others could turn on services.
He said, don't worry about that, your association dues covers trash, electricity and water. Association dues were $60/month. So I paid the dues a year in advance and my only bill was my phone. Now with Republic Wirelesss, my phone bill would have been $10, or I'd probably splurge and get the $25 plan.
I've been looking at small home living and I'm amazed what can be done with such small spaces. And with Kindle etc no need for books, records etc. Plus here in So Cal I'm usually wearing just a tshirt and shorts.
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I'm single, no kids, so I easily could...if it weren't for my parrots and the monstrous cages. I suppose I could rig an indoor/outdoor aviary that had indoor access for bad weather and heat lamps for cold weather. But they're family pets and like to have constant visibility of the humans. If it weren't for them I'd be all over the tiny house trend. Though my house is no mcmansion at 850 square feet.
My dream house would be small everything. Small kitchen, livingroom, bedrooms, bathrooms with a huge atrium off the kitchen in the center of the common areas for kitchen gardening and for the birds to have maximum view of anywhere and anyone in the house (that's their dream too...they have serious dependency issues lol!)
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I lived in a 175sqft studio apartment for 5 years. Except for a washer, I had all the modern conveniences. I don't think I would have liked to share the space with another person though.
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I could live in a tiny house with just my husband, but I wouldn't want to our kids. Maybe a tiny house could be our retirement home?
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I'm single and I live in a 500 square foot studio. I could go smaller as long as the space wasn't taken from the bathroom, kitchen, or walk-in closet. The huge benefit is low electric bills - electric heating/cooling/water heater/appliances, bill never rises above $68 in a given month.
To me, this is one of the most beneficial things about living in a tiny home - both the low utility costs and relatively short maintenance periods (i.e. it would probably only take you 5 to 10 minutes to vacuum the entire house). Clean up should be pretty simple.
Of course, you'd have to learn not to be a pack rat, too - can't store nearly as much crap in these homes as you could in a traditional home...actually, I think I just stumbled upon another benefit. :)
My parents have been maximalists (is that a word?) my whole life. I have had to retrain myself to minimize whenever I can - it's a struggle but having less stuff brings a sense of peace.
Clean up is a breeze. It takes 5 minutes to vacuum and another 10 to mop. Buuuuttt I'm super lazy so I asked for a robot vacuum for Christmas. Ha ha!
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We live in a small house of about 650 sq ft but we are probably going to move into a bigger house soon. The houses that we are looking at online are about 1000 sq ft but they look really big to me. I would be happy with an extra 100 foot but there doesn't seem to be houses that size in the areas we are planning to move to.
If it wasn't for our animals we would consider a smaller one or two bed flat (apartment) to live in instead.
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I live in a 250-squire foot studio. IMO it has too much space - stuff seems to gather. I would love to live in a tiny house, but that won't fly in Silicon Valley. Perhaps when I FIRE...
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I could but my husband would not. He's a collector of lots of stuff.
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When I moved in my first house (own your own) it cost me ~25K and I asked manager of building to open my door for me so the lights, gas and others could turn on services.
He said, don't worry about that, your association dues covers trash, electricity and water. Association dues were $60/month. So I paid the dues a year in advance and my only bill was my phone. Now with Republic Wirelesss, my phone bill would have been $10, or I'd probably splurge and get the $25 plan.
I've been looking at small home living and I'm amazed what can be done with such small spaces. And with Kindle etc no need for books, records etc. Plus here in So Cal I'm usually wearing just a tshirt and shorts.
Wow, impressively cheap.
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Nope. I eat a high protein diet... fill in the blanks.
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I think I could with one caveat - the location has to be perfect, i.e. place where I'd want to be out and about so much that the smallness of home doesn't matter. Watched the documentary Tiny a few weeks ago. Really neat.
Now, would my wife agree to it? Conceptually, no, but I think she could as well if forced to try for a bit.
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Pretty interesting place this guy's got. 83 ft2: http://scottsnextadventure.blogspot.com/2015/01/life-in-83-square-feet-my-transforming.html (http://scottsnextadventure.blogspot.com/2015/01/life-in-83-square-feet-my-transforming.html). From the first paragraph of that post, it also seems he's been living quite the bare-bones lifestyle for the past four years.
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I just realized recently that my boyfriend and I are living in a "tiny house". Because I'm in-between jobs, I'm living with him in about 175 sqft studio. Other than the 5 file boxes of stuff (yarn... mostly yarn...) that I currently have in a friend's apartment, all of our stuff is here. It's incredibly comfortable (I mean, I wouldn't object to 50 more sqft and some better storage) and best of all, SO EASY TO CLEAN. We did a "deep clean" today in under an hour.
To be fair, there is a separate laundry room and fitness room in the building, as well as plenty of parks, libraries, cafes, etc., to go nearby. (University neighborhood.) But I spend most of my time in the room.
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My wife and I have watched HGTV's (I think) "Tiny House Nation", and have observed the folks building very small residences. Forgetting about all the crap made up to presumably make the show more dramatic/interesting/entertaining, we agreed that we could never live in such a small place, and suspect that many of those who plan to don't last too long. I could see living in 300 sq feet if I lived alone, but sharing that sort of limited space with another person (maybe more) would be awfully hard on family relationships. I think people need some space where they can be alone, even for short periods of time...always literally being in the same room with a group of people would, in my opinion, be a real challenge. More power to those who can make it work though.
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One point that often gets overlooked is that there are, depending on who is counting, somewhere around a million folks in N.A living in recreation vehicles, full time. The DW and I have a new 1200ft. cottage that I built. In the market area we live in, I had to build a 3/2 for resale, but the fact is that, unless the kids are in town for the weekend, we really only live in roughly 60% of the thing. Since last summer, we have really only spent a few weeks there, and in reality are living full time in our 240 sq. ft motorhome. Surprisingly, the cabinets are far from stuffed, and the next time we circle back to the homestead, I can see roughly the equal of four full foot lockers worth of stuff being removed from the motorhome, as it proved to be unneeded. The key to not tripping over yourself in an RV is that they are quite different than many tiny houses. Good RVs have a massive amount of storage and don't waste a single inch of space. We have 36 interior cabinets, drawers, and closets, and seven exterior bins, most of which are fairly large, and one has more storage volume than the hatch area of our CR-V. We also have a separate bedroom, full bath, a kitchen/dining area and enough seating for eleven. Although I respect a lot of what's done in the tiny house movement, a lot of the finished products can't even compare to living in a decent RV. I can be in one room watching the TV or reading, while my wife is asleep in another. Try that with a typical tiny house, where the bedroom is a claustrophobic loft and open to the whole house. Or better yet, the typical tin toilet facilities, located in a tiny closet, inches from the kitchen..... no thanks. Bottom line is that two people can be amazingly comfortable in a small, very well designed space in a nice climate. With our rolling house, we make sure it's always parked in a nice climate. Currently we are in FL. where at this moment, the sky is painfully blue, and it's about 60* warmer than at our cottage in the northeast.
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My wife and I have watched HGTV's (I think) "Tiny House Nation", and have observed the folks building very small residences. Forgetting about all the crap made up to presumably make the show more dramatic/interesting/entertaining, we agreed that we could never live in such a small place, and suspect that many of those who plan to don't last too long. I could see living in 300 sq feet if I lived alone, but sharing that sort of limited space with another person (maybe more) would be awfully hard on family relationships. I think people need some space where they can be alone, even for short periods of time...always literally being in the same room with a group of people would, in my opinion, be a real challenge. More power to those who can make it work though.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
One point that often gets overlooked is that there are, depending on who is counting, somewhere around a million folks in N.A living in recreation vehicles, full time. The DW and I have a new 1200ft. cottage that I built. In the market area we live in, I had to build a 3/2 for resale, but the fact is that, unless the kids are in town for the weekend, we really only live in roughly 60% of the thing. Since last summer, we have really only spent a few weeks there, and in reality are living full time in our 240 sq. ft motorhome. Surprisingly, the cabinets are far from stuffed, and the next time we circle back to the homestead, I can see roughly the equal of four full foot lockers worth of stuff being removed from the motorhome, as it proved to be unneeded. The key to not tripping over yourself in an RV is that they are quite different than many tiny houses. Good RVs have a massive amount of storage and don't waste a single inch of space. We have 36 interior cabinets, drawers, and closets, and seven exterior bins, most of which are fairly large, and one has more storage volume than the hatch area of our CR-V. We also have a separate bedroom, full bath, a kitchen/dining area and enough seating for eleven. Although I respect a lot of what's done in the tiny house movement, a lot of the finished products can't even compare to living in a decent RV. I can be in one room watching the TV or reading, while my wife is asleep in another. Try that with a typical tiny house, where the bedroom is a claustrophobic loft and open to the whole house. Or better yet, the typical tin toilet facilities, located in a tiny closet, inches from the kitchen..... no thanks. Bottom line is that two people can be amazingly comfortable in a small, very well designed space in a nice climate. With our rolling house, we make sure it's always parked in a nice climate. Currently we are in FL. where at this moment, the sky is painfully blue, and it's about 60* warmer than at our cottage in the northeast.
That's why I get confused by the super tiny houses on wheels. It seems like an RV would be a much more efficient and cheaper option.
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I believe I could. My current home is mostly devoid of furniture. We have two floors and really only live on the 1st floor. It's not a big house by any means, it's below "average" for an American.
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I could definitely live in a tiny house alone (with my two teenagers, not so much). The only thing that bothers me about it is the way tiny house residents / communities always seem to be getting chased off by the powers that be and the influence of developers and politicians. That kind of irritation would get old really fast.
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This is an interesting thread for me.
Used to live with my ex-gf in a 960 sq ft apartment (2 yuppies, 2 cats, no kids), and had plenty of space.
Currently living alone in a 250 sq ft student room, while sharing kitchen and bathroom with flat mates. I'm okay with this situation for the next 2 years or so, but not forever.
Contemplating my options for the future now.
I'm not an entrepreneur / stock trader type, so if I want FI, I MUST keep expenses low.
Estate is relatively expensive in the area, but I really like living here, and it's easy to live car-free.
So I'm wondering how small I can go and still live comfortably and future-proof.
I'm slowly growing to living with less stuff, and I've gotten to the point that when I visit my parents, It really strikes me how full their home is.
My major weakness is my bike addiction (I own 8 bicycles), but I could (should!) get that down to 5, 4 or 3.
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This is an interesting thread for me.
Used to live with my ex-fg in a 960 sq ft apartment (2 yuppies, 2 cats, no kids), and had plenty of space.
Currently living alone in a 250 sq ft student room, while sharing kitchen and bathroom with flat mates. I'm okay with this situation for the next 2 years or so, but not forever.
Contemplating my options for the future now.
I'm not an entrepreneur / stock trader type, so if I want FI, I MUST keep expenses low.
Estate is relatively expensive in the area, but I really like living here, and it's easy to live car-free.
So I'm wondering how small I can go and still live comfortably and future-proof.
I'm slowly growing to living with less stuff, and I've gotten to the point that when I visit my parents, It really strikes me how full their home is.
My major weakness is my bike addiction (I own 8 bicycles), but I could (should!) get that down to 5, 4 or 3.
I understand the Dutch have more bicycles than average. Do you legitimately use the 8 bicycles for different scenarios? For example, do you have a winter road bike, a road bike, a mountain bike, a cruiser bike, a unicycle, a tricycle, an electric bike, and finally an old bike that you ride when you feel nostalgic?
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I understand the Dutch have more bicycles than average.
Definitely true, though that's mainly because it's almost impossible to find a Dutchman who doesn't own a bike.
Do you legitimately use the 8 bicycles for different scenarios?
No.
I use only 3 or 4 of them regularly:
-Dutch bike with fenders, chainguards etc for commuting and groceries. Very important since I don't own a car anymore. It's locked up outside, so it doesn't take any space.
-Fancy alloy road bike for road cycling. Lives inside my apartment. Very dear to me, gets ridden a lot since cycling is one of my passions.
-Surly Ogre steel framed mountain bike. Ride this one a LOT too. Currently set up as a single speed mountain bike, but last summer I built it up with gears and a Bob Yak luggage trailer and toured Belgium and northern France. Lives inside my apartment.
These are by far the most important ones, and there's no way I'm gonna get rid of any of these three.
-Then there's my steel fixie I use for commuting and groceries when the weather is nice. I like the feel of riding a fixed gear bike, and it's minimalist looks. It does see some miles, but actually it's more of a gimmick.
-There's my old steel framed road bike that I planned to build up as a training bike with fixed gear, single speed or downtube shifters, but haven't ridden it a lot since I got my current alloy roadbike.
-My old single speed mountain bike. Currently built up as some single speed monster cross bike, but I ride the Ogre a lot more.
-Lastly: 2 old 26" wheeled mountain bikes that I haven't ridden in YEARS and should definitely get rid of.
Wow, what a confession ;-)
Things I learned typing this post:
-Sell 2 bikes immediately.
-Consider selling 2 or 3 more.
-Any future home MUST have room to store at least 2 bikes inside (Dutch bike can stay outside)
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I mean the "tiny house" concept where your home is built, usually between 100 and 500 square feet (some are larger, some are even smaller)
Would anyone consider such a living arrangement?
We have a 1000 sq ft house which which we use inefficiently due to the layout. I'm sure we could live in 700 sq ft open concept and I wouldn't be surprised if we could get down to 500 sq ft in a space designed and furnished for max efficiency of space utlization.
-- Vik
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My SO and I always joke that we need a tiny house with a BIG garage! We're far more attached to the classic car and having a machine shop than we are about the size of the house. A trailer based house wouldn't work, but a really teeny loft or 1 bedroom home would be perfect.
Living in the PNW, a garage is a must for me as well.
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I understand the Dutch have more bicycles than average.
Definitely true, though that's mainly because it's almost impossible to find a Dutchman who doesn't own a bike.
Do you legitimately use the 8 bicycles for different scenarios?
CONFESSION
Thanks for the confession! I learned a bit. I only have the one hybrid that I ride, but all trips are under 6 miles, so speed isn't a necessity, and biking's not much of a passion, so a mountain bike is out of the question. To each his own!
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I could definitely live in a tiny house alone (with my two teenagers, not so much). The only thing that bothers me about it is the way tiny house residents / communities always seem to be getting chased off by the powers that be and the influence of developers and politicians. That kind of irritation would get old really fast.
I agree it ticks me off.
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Nope! I love having lots and lots of people over.
Our current house is further away from friends and family, but we are closing on a centrally located place next month. The main thing I'm looking forward to is having people over. Tiny homes just don't have enough communal space for me. Plus, I get very cooped up in the winter, and need private space to be alone.
That said, I love tiny homes. I have seen several episodes of Tiny House Nation and Tiny House Hunting (this features more cottages and small homes instead of the trendy kind). I would like one as a vacation home in the wilderness one day though.
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No, I really doubt that I could be a happy chappy in a tiny house. I like small-ish living and certainly never want to live in a great big house, but a true tiny house would be too cramped for me. I want to be able to spread out. Plus DH owns WAY too many bikes.
But, to have a tiny house as a vacation property in the woods? That would be paradise.
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I live in an apartment in China that is small: 15.5ft wide by 27 feet long. About 420 sq ft.
This includes several interior walls of course. This also includes my home gym of squat rack, weight rack, bench, yoga mats, crossfit type box.
In college I lived in 200 sq ft, was possibly one of the best years of my live. One side was all windows, the other side all mirrors. Felt very large.
I've seen the "live in a shed" posts and that's my plan when I move back to the States. Buy a place, build a 100 sq ft "shed", or however large zoning allows, I think its slightly more than 100 in my hometown. Live in the shed, rent out a bedroom or two in the house and househack.
I wont be working since my bills are so low, single with no kids. Should be pretty nice life. Whenever I get sick of Asia I will go back and "retire". All through living in a "tiny house".
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Thought you guys might be interested in this Vancouver project: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/01/shipping-container-homes_n_3692408.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/01/shipping-container-homes_n_3692408.html)
A social housing group stacked up a dozen shipping containers and turned them into pretty nice 290 square foot studios, at a substantially lower cost per unit than comparable social housing. I'd live in one of those in a heartbeat!
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Zikoris, those look great. The outside reminds me a bit of Habitat 67 (Montreal). Same modular concept.
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My wife and I have looked at every conceivable design for our upcoming cottage build - including the shipping container concept. We have just recently stumbled on a design we really love (timber frame, prefab, Pacific Northwest architecture)...our cottage will probably come in at just under 1000 square feet...not tiny...not huge...but JUST RIGHT. ;)
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Nope! I love having lots and lots of people over.
Our current house is further away from friends and family, but we are closing on a centrally located place next month. The main thing I'm looking forward to is having people over. Tiny homes just don't have enough communal space for me.
That's an aspect of housing we enjoy, too. I figure we save tons of money when we have people over instead of going out for an evening of drinking and dining. $20-30 goes a long way when beer is $13/case and wine is $3/bottle and you cook your own food (or do potluck). We probably save a collective $200-300 versus going out, and we can linger all afternoon and evening for the same low price.
We also have 25-40 members of our family and/or friends over a few times per year for various holidays and festivities. A tiny house would probably mean an end to that, or at least a serious downsizing.
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We have a fairly large family and want to be able to have family gatherings at our place when we're retired.
But we love the simplicity a smaller place would provide. Easy cleaning, more efficient use of space, etc.
What we are toying with now is having a main, smaller house that serves as the gathering space, food prep area, living space for us, etc. (maybe 500 or 600 SF) with more room outdoors for bigger groups. And then having a couple of tiny house cabins (100-200 SF) that are adjacent for guests to stay in. They could also be rentable depending on the circumstances we find ourselves in... Anyway, it's more of a fuzzy dream than a concrete plan, but tiny houses hold some fascination for us.
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Lived in a 275sq ft house on a 18000 sq ft lot for a couple of years in the late 90's. 2 people( couple) and a big dog. House was built from "recycled/scrap" materials from construction jobs, except for the heater.
The best part is that cleaning is quick and you never buy anything because it won't fit.
Worst part is it is hard to have anyone over or spend the night.
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Lived in a 275sq ft house on a 18000 sq ft lot for a couple of years in the late 90's. 2 people( couple) and a big dog. House was built from "recycled/scrap" materials from construction jobs, except for the heater.
The best part is that cleaning is quick and you never buy anything because it won't fit.
Worst part is it is hard to have anyone over or spend the night.
Wow, that's boss. 275 sqft is pretty darn small, but I bet it was an interesting experience. Got any pictures of it?
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Currently living alone in a 250 sq ft student room
FML, just measured it; my room is actually less than 200 sq ft.
Well, means that I can do fine with even less than I thought ;-)
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Mentioned before I live in a barracks room. I live in about 193.5 sq ft shared with a roommate. This includes all our floorspace. (This is estimated, assuming the floor tiles are a foot square. That seems to be the case.)
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I know a guy who has a small house (unsure but well under 500 sq ft) and a huge garage/shop, like a few thousand square feet with a loft for storage that he can make into a small apartment if he ever wanted. He's divorced and seems happy to have his privacy and space to work on cars and projects, and also has a business he keeps his trucks in the larger unconditioned part of the shop. He explicitly went with a tiny house to keep property taxes relatively low in an extremely high property tax state as they base it on land+home value, only habitable space not considering garages and outbuildings.
I could absolutely do a setup like that. I just need a warm bed and a place to cook, and a decent sized shop to work on my projects. I would be happy with a 500 sq ft house, 3 bay garage on a wooded lot for privacy and waterfront on lake, down south where winters are mild. That is kind of my FI/retirement goal. Size and specs of house may vary as the wife is not so minimalistic as me but has been warming up to ER and less is more. If it wasn't for my classic car and other garage requiring hobbies I'd consider a living on a boat, but I don't think I could ever get DW on board for that.
This is kind of what my wife and I are thinking about. We are interested in a hobby farm, building the house ourselves and having a good sized shop + barn. It would be a lot easier to keep the costs down while keeping a high quality/design standard (energy neutral, etc). I'm not sure if it counts as a tiny home when you have several thousand square feet of outbuildings?
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I want one... I used to live in a small studio and really miss it.
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You might find this blog enjoyable/useful - small (tiny) house, appropriately sized outbuildings, all very carefully thought out and self-built.
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/
This is kind of what my wife and I are thinking about. We are interested in a hobby farm, building the house ourselves and having a good sized shop + barn. It would be a lot easier to keep the costs down while keeping a high quality/design standard (energy neutral, etc). I'm not sure if it counts as a tiny home when you have several thousand square feet of outbuildings?
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I think important factors in the livability of a tiny house/space are the layout and storage. I was just looking at a 375 square foot studio apartment. It works well because the windows are placed such that you can arrange the larger furniture along good runs of solid wall. The layout also includes a nice double closet and second coat closet in the entry way. This studio would reduce my living space down from 550 to 375 = cheaper bills, easier to clean, less space to chuck useless stuff, etc.
I included a picture.
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I agree that layout is very important - here's the layout of our 400 square foot studio:
(http://i.imgur.com/yXc1Ec4.jpg)
The bed is next to the bottom closet and folds up into the wall. The Murphy bed unit also has built in bookshelves. We made a table into a double desk rather than have two computer desks, and we have a filing cabinet underneath it. We use one closet for clothes and some storage, the other solely for storage. There are a lot of things in our kitchen cabinets that most people would not put in there, but we just see it as extra storage. It all just works really well.
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I agree that layout is very important - here's the layout of our 400 square foot studio:
(http://i.imgur.com/yXc1Ec4.jpg)
The bed is next to the bottom closet and folds up into the wall. The Murphy bed unit also has built in bookshelves. We made a table into a double desk rather than have two computer desks, and we have a filing cabinet underneath it. We use one closet for clothes and some storage, the other solely for storage. There are a lot of things in our kitchen cabinets that most people would not put in there, but we just see it as extra storage. It all just works really well.
You posted about your apartment in it's own thread right? As I recall it has beautiful, huge windows along that balcony wall.
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I could, but my husband couldn't. He just likes cramming every square inch with crap too much.
Even if my husband was down, it is off the table till our kid is out of the house. She's too old and big now to stuff into tiny spaces with two other grown adults. The only exception would be for maybe a year travelling around in an RV. But definitely wouldn't be a permanent thing.
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You might find this blog enjoyable/useful - small (tiny) house, appropriately sized outbuildings, all very carefully thought out and self-built.
http://sugarmtnfarm.com/
This is very cool, thanks! I showed my wife and explained that we could sell our houses (not much equity between the two), buy land, build this house and she could retire at the end of the year. She was somewhat intrested... work in progress :).
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I agree that layout is very important - here's the layout of our 400 square foot studio:
(http://i.imgur.com/yXc1Ec4.jpg)
The bed is next to the bottom closet and folds up into the wall. The Murphy bed unit also has built in bookshelves. We made a table into a double desk rather than have two computer desks, and we have a filing cabinet underneath it. We use one closet for clothes and some storage, the other solely for storage. There are a lot of things in our kitchen cabinets that most people would not put in there, but we just see it as extra storage. It all just works really well.
You posted about your apartment in it's own thread right? As I recall it has beautiful, huge windows along that balcony wall.
Yeah, the whole wall there is windows, straight through the kitchen - it makes the place feel so bright and airy.
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I'm currently in about 400 sq ft. It's an old coal camp house, recently remodeled. High ceilings. Lots of of daylight. No storage. Pretty snug and well insulated but not the greatest layout. I love it. I could go smaller. i have a love seat sized couch that pulls out into a bed for guests in the living room.
I am very busy with work, school and community projects. Often gone 10- 12 hours a day. I really value my alone time and personal space. If a tiny house lets me live alone then I'll go for it! I don't like the mobile tiny houses so much as having one as home base that could be easily closed up (or sublet) while I traveled, or even lived elsewhere. I'm single, adult student. I am working but most of it is tied to the school year. I cook and sew and make, therefore have supplies for each of those. And those things I intend to continue. I'd like to do more traveling, internships, and study abroad things. I am trying to find a balance of what is worth holding on to and storing and what to let go of.
And I'm rambling... I've enjoyed the perspectives on this thread.
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Right now, I dream about a _tinier_ house... We (me,husband, 3 teenagers) live in 1800sq.ft. and it feels like loads of room. I dream of a smaller place to force me to get rid of all the crap that accumulates when you have space for it! I think 600-800 sq.ft. would be lovely; enough space for the girls to visit once they have ditched the nest, and room for the backpacking gear and all our bicycles...
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YES, I could and have*. Husband no.
Mom had a tiny house when she first divorced. I was young so no accurate sq. foot count, but probably 250 sq. foot or less.
Before that the family of 5 of us did some 3 month long cross country travels in a truck camper.
I owned a 300 sq. foot efficiency condo at one time. Made it just fine.
Some of the prices I've seen, heart attack time!!! But this - Less than $500 - that's what I'm talking about!!!
http://tinyhousetalk.com/man-living-8x12-tiny-house-built-less-500/
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Saw someone post this one on facebook:
http://www.tengbom.se/en-US/projects/207/10-smart-sqm
The too bright green accents make it look like a kid's playhouse imo, but if you look past that, I like it a lot!
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Some of the prices I've seen, heart attack time!!! But this - Less than $500 - that's what I'm talking about!!!
http://tinyhousetalk.com/man-living-8x12-tiny-house-built-less-500/
So many code violations and some safety issues too. I'm not one to judge, but from reviewing pictures many of these tiny homes on the cheap would be highly illegal anywhere government enforces building code, and many of the rest would be illegal just for size and layout rather than safety issues. The key I suppose would be to live somewhere without such oppressive code enforcement.
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I'd love to live in a tiny (or small?) house. I think small for me would be 500-1000ft2 I think my day to day living would be much better served by the smaller space especially because I love the idea of less to clean. I've always hated the idea of having a room just for sleeping. Its like having a whole room to house a bed, and all the time you spend in it you're not even aware. I'd prefer the hideaway beds or having a small loft that only fits the bed.
As for issues with hosting in a small house, I also have a larger family and we rotate who hosts Christmas between anyone who's willing to do it. I'd like to host my share of Christmas parties, but I think I'd just host outside of my home. I would rather pay to rent out a restaurant or some other place than buy a bigger house to accommodate my family every so often. I think in the long run its cheaper and makes me happier anyway. I bet I could even keep costs way down by renting out a hall and still doing a potluck or cooking a lot of the food myself. Of course this works for me because other than potentially hosting my family I generally stick to the smaller 1-6 person gatherings which I think can be easily done in a small home.
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For just me, I think it would work. I have cats though, and I think that would cause a problem unless they could go outside year round (meaning, no winter).
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I had heard of tiny houses before, but I stumbled upon a TV show last week and I find it fascinating ! However, I couldn't live in such a limited space. If I was single, I probably would consider it. My FI and I currently live in a 1000 sqft appartment and it's perfect for us. It's the right amount of space, and just the right amount of time to clean and tidy the place on a weekly basis. We'll probably opt for a small house of about the same size, but a tiny house is just too extreme for our lifestyle.
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I have lived in 250 sq ft and 150 sq ft apartments and could comfortably do so again if it was in a place with a nice climate and outdoor space. Both of those apartments were in Santa Barbara, CA and I loved them, except that they were "bargain" apartments that took 1/3 of my pay each month.
Now I live in Oregon in an 1800 sq ft 3 BR/2 BA with DH and sister (600 sq ft is like a separate apartment). In this climate, I probably wouldn't want to live in less than 1000 well-planned square feet.
So, yes I could live in a tiny house in a great climate as long as it was one with real utilities. I don't really want to deal with composting toilets and marine batteries unless they come with a private tropical island.
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I think important factors in the livability of a tiny house/space are the layout and storage. I was just looking at a 375 square foot studio apartment. It works well because the windows are placed such that you can arrange the larger furniture along good runs of solid wall. The layout also includes a nice double closet and second coat closet in the entry way. This studio would reduce my living space down from 550 to 375 = cheaper bills, easier to clean, less space to chuck useless stuff, etc.
I included a picture.
That's a wonderful lay out. How much is the rent for a place like that? Is it in a good location? I would live in a place like that.
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I have lived in 250 sq ft and 150 sq ft apartments and could comfortably do so again if it was in a place with a nice climate and outdoor space. Both of those apartments were in Santa Barbara, CA and I loved them, except that they were "bargain" apartments that took 1/3 of my pay each month.
Now I live in Oregon in an 1800 sq ft 3 BR/2 BA with DH and sister (600 sq ft is like a separate apartment). In this climate, I probably wouldn't want to live in less than 1000 well-planned square feet.
So, yes I could live in a tiny house in a great climate as long as it was one with real utilities. I don't really want to deal with composting toilets and marine batteries unless they come with a private tropical island.
What do you think those "bargain" studios in Santa Barbara would cost today? 250 sq ft is really a lot of room if the weather is great every day. 150 is pushing it because I still need to store a bike, surfboard, etc
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I have lived in 250 sq ft and 150 sq ft apartments and could comfortably do so again if it was in a place with a nice climate and outdoor space. Both of those apartments were in Santa Barbara, CA and I loved them, except that they were "bargain" apartments that took 1/3 of my pay each month.
Now I live in Oregon in an 1800 sq ft 3 BR/2 BA with DH and sister (600 sq ft is like a separate apartment). In this climate, I probably wouldn't want to live in less than 1000 well-planned square feet.
So, yes I could live in a tiny house in a great climate as long as it was one with real utilities. I don't really want to deal with composting toilets and marine batteries unless they come with a private tropical island.
What do you think those "bargain" studios in Santa Barbara would cost today? 250 sq ft is really a lot of room if the weather is great every day. 150 is pushing it because I still need to store a bike, surfboard, etc
The 150 sq ft apt was $850 in 2002. It was basically a daylight basement. I don't remember how much the larger one was.
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i could not imagine living in a house 500sqft or less with the life/family i have built around me at this point.
new to MMM just in July, so thats part of the reason why my life is designed as is...
but with a wife, two boys under 3yrs old, and 2 50# dogs. 500sqft would be no where near sufficient.
with that said, our current house bought in 2004 is grossly oversized for our needs.
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I'm remembering the efficiency apartment I had my last year of college. I'd guestimate it at 150 sq ft. Didn't have a TV. So yeah, I could do that, but I would need another 450 ft for the family. So 600 would be a luxury. Says the man in a 3000 sq ft house with over 1200 sq ft of unused space. (hey, it was a deal!)
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That's my guess, too. With a spouse and one kid I think I could live on 600 - 700 sq ft. (now single on 200 sq ft)
But if I can declutter (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/throw-down-the-gauntlet/getting-rid-of-stuff-clearing-out-clutter!/) enough to become a true minimalist I might be able to do with even less space.
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I think important factors in the livability of a tiny house/space are the layout and storage. I was just looking at a 375 square foot studio apartment. It works well because the windows are placed such that you can arrange the larger furniture along good runs of solid wall. The layout also includes a nice double closet and second coat closet in the entry way. This studio would reduce my living space down from 550 to 375 = cheaper bills, easier to clean, less space to chuck useless stuff, etc.
I included a picture.
That's a wonderful lay out. How much is the rent for a place like that? Is it in a good location? I would live in a place like that.
It's in Columbus, Ohio. South of the downtown core, directly on a bus line, 20 minutes to everything. On site amenities include a pool (outdoor/seasonal), laundry, sauna, gym, free cable, and off-street parking. The building is a bit of an odd duck in that it's in a neighborhood where development sort of stalled-out. Safe and quiet though. The management company is listing it at $415 a month.
I'm anticipating two things once I see it in real life: a wait list for the building and higher rent than was posted online.
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Wife and I are steadily downsizing and might get there someday. We have 1100sf now and could easily go to 800 with no lifestyle impact. Once we hit our savings/investment goal, and ditch the clothing and equipment our side jobs require, 500 is totally feasible.
I'm planning to build a trailer-mounted tiny house next summer near Seattle, to serve as a foothold while we make longer visits and explore the possibility of moving back near my family. It should be an interesting experiment in minimalism. I'm also tracking local efforts to build them for the homeless and am very optimistic about both the learning experience and the greater good served.
Beyond that, we both dream of ultimately ending up in Hawaii, where I grew up, and obviously we can accelerate that option by years if we reduce our space requirements, which only adds to my interest in this subject.
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With our 4 kids, I think the smallest that we could comfortably do is about 1,000 square feet of livable space. Right now we have about 1,200 square feet.
Just DH and I could easily live in 500-600 sq ft and be very happy, though the "dream house" we talk about building is 800 sq ft. It has an extra "bedroom" that I could use as a studio.
Alone I could probably live in 300-400 sq ft quite happily with the right layout.
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http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2015/03/interested-in-a-micro-apartment-heres-rent.html
From time to time I see the Tiny House movement's micro apartment offshoot co-opted by developers who really don't understand. Look at the rents in the article above. These are insane for Columbus, Ohio. $680 a month for 270 square feet? Who's doing this market research?
In these instances, I'd rather live in a transitional neighborhood where $475 would afford a 900sf two bedroom. (Which is exactly the case in this scenario- five miles from this development is a neighborhood called Hilltop with a spotted history but rock-bottom rent.)
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When minimalism and tiny living are marketed as 'hip' among yuppies with fixie bikes and MacBook Air, prices of small apartements in gentrifying neighborhoods will rise ;-)
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When minimalism and tiny living are marketed as 'hip' among yuppies with fixie bikes and MacBook Air, prices of small apartements in gentrifying neighborhoods will rise ;-)
I thought they had become 'hip' many years ago among the affluent urban hipsters
http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/ (http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/)
http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/ (http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/)
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/ (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/)
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Nope.
Smallest I've lived in is a 650 sqft apartment with my GF.
We currently own a 2000 sqft home. 4 bedrooms. The master obviously gets use, as does a second bedroom as the office. Third bedroom is a guest room which is nice when family comes over or when friends need to crash after drinking too much. The fourth bedroom currently exists to house stuff we need to get rid of.
Mostly though, I bought a 4 bedroom for when we have kids. We're high earners living in a wealthy country so I feel like one luxury I can afford for my kids is that they have their own rooms.
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When minimalism and tiny living are marketed as 'hip' among yuppies with fixie bikes and MacBook Air, prices of small apartements in gentrifying neighborhoods will rise ;-)
I thought they had become 'hip' many years ago among the affluent urban hipsters
http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/ (http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/)
http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/ (http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/)
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/ (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/)
My problem is always when I accidentally intersect with the hipsters. It ends up being both frustrating and expensive whenever they're involved. The problem is we have *nearly* the same goals. Smaller environmental footprint, check. Easier lifestyle with greater emphasis on time spent out of the house, check. Access to vibrant downtown/urban core of a city, check. Best quality and high standards, check.
Wealthy parents funding the entire effort, disconnect.
The apartment I mentioned earlier in the thread does indeed have a wait list. There are six studios in a 100 unit tower. Estimated wait time is 18-24 months. If they build a coffee shop, bike store, micro brew pub, or combination of any of the three, within a mile of this tower, I'm screwed. lol
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When minimalism and tiny living are marketed as 'hip' among yuppies with fixie bikes and MacBook Air, prices of small apartements in gentrifying neighborhoods will rise ;-)
I thought they had become 'hip' many years ago among the affluent urban hipsters
http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/ (http://www.woai.com/articles/woai-local-news-sponsored-by-five-119078/hipster-sa-micro-apartments-taking-hold-12027823/)
http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/ (http://choochootinyhouse.com/2014/08/16/the-tiny-house-hipster/)
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/ (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ekkl45lkh/brooklyn-heights-new-york-2/)
My problem is always when I accidentally intersect with the hipsters. It ends up being both frustrating and expensive whenever they're involved.
IDK, I've always found when my interests become more mainstream (even "niche" mainstream - as long as it becomes a targeted viable group to market at), it comes with the benefit of extra options and reduced prices.
I like when my nerd stuff catches on, for example. Or as lightweight camping becomes more popular. Etc.
YMMV. :)
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My problem is always when I accidentally intersect with the hipsters. It ends up being both frustrating and expensive whenever they're involved. The problem is we have *nearly* the same goals. Smaller environmental footprint, check. Easier lifestyle with greater emphasis on time spent out of the house, check. Access to vibrant downtown/urban core of a city, check. Best quality and high standards, check.
Wealthy parents funding the entire effort, disconnect.
Lol... it's amazing to me how much my lifestyle overlaps with urban hipsters, and yet for the most part they really bug the crap out of me.
Cycling (yup), small footprint (yup), attention to craftsmanship (yup), diverse and good food (yup)...
constant attention to clothes (nope), frequenting coffee-shops and craft-cocktail bars (nope), self-checking on social media (nope)
we overlap on so many aspects that are important, but are opposites on other very important aspects.
... never really thought about it that way until you brought it up OSUBearCub...
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Yes:
I already live in a space that small
It would be really nice to own my own space
Hella cheap
No:
There is nowhere I'd want to live that would allow it (minimum lot sizes, sewer and water hookups unavailable, etc)
I don't like the idea of living in a house without a foundation anywhere that has tornadoes or hurricanes
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Ok your americans with your feet that makes no sense to me lol let me convert it to meters so I understand.
100ft²= 9.290304m²
500ft²= 46.45152m²
I think there is a misconception here. 500 ft2 is 46,45151 is not tiny or you are spoiled brats or have many children.
Here is the rents for my investment apartment though I always go for high rent and these are in the capitol area of my country.
Year built comes first...
1970: 27 square meters(290.6 square feet)+balcony(balcony in Finland is never counted to the squaremeters) Rent: 724 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
1986: 30 square meters(322.9 square feet)+balcony. Rent 785 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
2014 25,3 square meters(270+ square feet) no balcony. Rent 780 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
1986 has very good location better then the others and is the biggest apartment of these. 2014 is so new so I take more rent for that. 1970 is older and decent location and therefore lower rent.
2014 is excellent built it has integrated dischwashing machine so it takes no space and clothes(laundry) washing machine is not needed in the apartment since the building has that as available for all who live there to use for free.
Anyway 25,3 square meters(270+ square feet) does feel tiny for me...
27 square meters a bit grey area yes maybe tiny...
30 square meters(322.9 square feet)+balcony is not tiny for me it is a small apartment and 2 people could well live there.
I myself live in a larger place then those above mentioned.
500 square feet is not tiny lol it is what I call decent sized apartment medium sized meant for at least a couple 2 persons or more.
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You do realize most posting here don't live in Finland, right?
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In a nice climate, I think spouse and I could definitely live in 500 sq. ft.
Where we live now in MN, though, no way. We spend too much of the year indoors.
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Ok your americans with your feet that makes no sense to me lol let me convert it to meters so I understand.
100ft²= 9.290304m²
500ft²= 46.45152m²
It's always amusing when people take conversions out to absurd decimal points. 10E-6 square meters is less than 1 square cm. Now that's precise!
I think there is a misconception here. 500 ft2 is 46,45151 is not tiny or you are spoiled brats or have many children.
Part of the differences in opinion here may be terminology. For many, an apartment ≠ a house. Also, while there's no set definition of what constitutes "tiny", most of the discussion has focused on actual freestanding structures that are <300ft2. That's 27.870912, just so we're clear ;-)
500 square feet is not tiny lol it is what I call decent sized apartment medium sized meant for at least a couple 2 persons or more.
I agree with you - 500 square feet is a reasonable sized apartment, especially in urban areas. But it's a pretty small house by North American standards. I might even say "that house is tiny!"
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We lived in 700 square feet with 2 adults and 4 kids for 2 years. The rent was a steal and we amassed huge savings during that time. I would do it again if we had some space outside. A tiny house with a largish backyard would be ideal.
We have since bought a house and it is a bit larger than we wanted (2,000 Sq ft). We could't find anything smaller in our target neighborhood and now that we are here I like the extra space. Right now, my 7 year old is practicing viola upstairs and I can hardly hear the cat-screaching noise that we affectionately call 'music'.
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I cannot. I can't stand feeling cramped and closed in. I had a 2-story townhouse that was about 1300 SF. It seemed as if there were room for another person, but then I bought "Slam Man" for exercise and he made me crazy. He was always in my way and I even started accusing him of stalking and following me. I'll be alone forever.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mojofitness.com.au%2Fslam_man&ei=WisbVbTOFY2Uarz1gOgH&bvm=bv.89744112,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNGxZSDm2fXOKnzIkvutqPZ5R6t-Kw&ust=1427930329221650
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You do realize most posting here don't live in Finland, right?
True, but whole Europe basically use meters instead of feet. In addition the laws between different European countries can be very different so that is why I specifically mention my country often. If I would say Europe only in some things it might give wrong assumption it is valid for whole Europe.
Of course some economic things affect whole Europe like ECB.
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I've lived in a car, so even the tiniest house is doable for me.
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Houses over here in England are already small, and shrinking all the time. That's mainly due to the weird concept of houses being sold by number of bedrooms, instead of square footage, so builders cram in five 6x6' rooms and call it a "Five Bedroom Palace".
My family's fairly comfortable in perhaps 1000sqft, so I could definitely live in 300 or so. I've considered living out of a sedan every now and again, but I always come back to the plumbing problem...
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Th'wife and I are actively planning to make tiny house living a part of our Mustachian future once we've finished the ultra-migrant portion of our lives (school, internships, etc.) an can think about a semi-permanent dwelling. Based on the initial question, however, our current draft plans likely would not qualify.
With 2 kids who we intend to have in separate bedrooms due to age difference, and the need for a full kitchen (th'wife is a work-from-home pastry chef) our "tiny house" square footage will be in the 500-750ft2 range (that's 46.451522-69.677283m² for LandLord2015). That puts us at the high end of/above the generally agreed upon upper threshold for "tiny." Then again, I've known more than a few tiny housers who have an entire extra story on top of their 300ft2 dwellings which they say doesn't count in their square footage because building code says the ceiling is too low (an interesting loophole to exploit, given that many tiny houses are built on trailers precisely to avoid being subject to building code).*
For us, it's about being frugal with space just like we're frugal with money and with possessions. And just like with money and possessions, you will find people who choose arbitrary numeric thresholds to decide who gets to be included - own less than 101 things or you're not a minimalist; save 50% or you're not frugal. under 500 square feet is great for all the single folks and childless couples who own those dwellings, but rather than placing a hard numeric cap on what's "tiny" and what's not, I think the movement should be more about maximum utilization of space and the corresponding conservation of resources which results from not having excess or wasted areas in the home.
*I'd gladly go smaller than that if I could find a design which offers 3 separate sleeping areas and a full kitchen in under 500 sqft, but I've not seen one yet
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*I'd gladly go smaller than that if I could find a design which offers 3 separate sleeping areas and a full kitchen in under 500 sqft, but I've not seen one yet
Sadly I'm not an architect, but this sounds like an awesome challenge for one. Design a home under 500 sqft that has a full bathroom, three separate bedrooms (no lofts), and a 'full-sized kitchen (one that has a standard size range, oven, sink, microwave etc. and at least 12.5 sqft of counter-top space). I'm going to play around with some graph paper just to see what I can come up with.
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Our current house is about 6500 sq ft but we are downsizing a bit to a 150 sq ft place.
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Our current house is about 6500 sq ft but we are downsizing a bit to a 150 sq ft place.
whaaa? You're reducing your square footage by 97.7%?? That's.... wow....!
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Th'wife and I are actively planning to make tiny house living a part of our Mustachian future once we've finished the ultra-migrant portion of our lives (school, internships, etc.) an can think about a semi-permanent dwelling. Based on the initial question, however, our current draft plans likely would not qualify.
With 2 kids who we intend to have in separate bedrooms due to age difference, and the need for a full kitchen (th'wife is a work-from-home pastry chef) our "tiny house" square footage will be in the 500-750ft2 range (that's 46.451522-69.677283m² for LandLord2015). That puts us at the high end of/above the generally agreed upon upper threshold for "tiny." Then again, I've known more than a few tiny housers who have an entire extra story on top of their 300ft2 dwellings which they say doesn't count in their square footage because building code says the ceiling is too low (an interesting loophole to exploit, given that many tiny houses are built on trailers precisely to avoid being subject to building code).*
For us, it's about being frugal with space just like we're frugal with money and with possessions. And just like with money and possessions, you will find people who choose arbitrary numeric thresholds to decide who gets to be included - own less than 101 things or you're not a minimalist; save 50% or you're not frugal. under 500 square feet is great for all the single folks and childless couples who own those dwellings, but rather than placing a hard numeric cap on what's "tiny" and what's not, I think the movement should be more about maximum utilization of space and the corresponding conservation of resources which results from not having excess or wasted areas in the home.
*I'd gladly go smaller than that if I could find a design which offers 3 separate sleeping areas and a full kitchen in under 500 sqft, but I've not seen one yet
Nice finally one that gives feet translation:). Thanks for the effort.
I do think that the space needed increase when talking about children... and maybe even domestic animals dogs, cats etc.
I think it is difficult to compare also because if you compare house to apartment. My investment apartments are all in the capitol area in my country where it is expensive. I could sell one of them and buy much larger in another city or town in my country.
On top of that my apartment have separately balcony area not counted to the living area. House company has also in everyone of them public bike area, 1-2 storage areas, and sauna(this one not for free a small fee):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauna
My smallest apartment also has public laundry place....
I myself live in a place with more space, but then again I don't live even near the capitol area.
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*I'd gladly go smaller than that if I could find a design which offers 3 separate sleeping areas and a full kitchen in under 500 sqft, but I've not seen one yet
Sadly I'm not an architect, but this sounds like an awesome challenge for one. Design a home under 500 sqft that has a full bathroom, three separate bedrooms (no lofts), and a 'full-sized kitchen (one that has a standard size range, oven, sink, microwave etc. and at least 12.5 sqft of counter-top space). I'm going to play around with some graph paper just to see what I can come up with.
Oh, I'd stick the kids up in their own lofts. Our existing plan does exactly that - "great room" in the middle of the house with "vaulted" (~13.5 ft) ceilings, kitchen and lavatory on one side with loft overhead, bedroom/office (convertible furniture) on the other side with another loft overhead... it's based loosely on Tumbleweed's "Whidbey"(http://www.houseplans.com/plan/461-square-feet-1-bedroom-1-bathroom-0-garage-cottage-39330) with some kitchen expansion and the loft split in half by the great room. If you go with their square footage counts, it's 461 sqft, but I count that added 270 sqft of loft space toward the square footage, so it ends up at 731.
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Single living in 36 sqm/400sq ft apt as a renter... with a tiny house I assume you get your own outdoor space so it would make things a little easier. I could probably do 25sqm (270sq ft) apartment as an owner occupier (ability to get customized furniture) if I needed to but I don't think I'd want to do it forever. Even in this apartment i get somewhat overwhelmed by clutter if I am not ruthless about "one-in-one-out".
I also like "mid century modern" design and a minimalist look so anything too small would probably make me feel overwhelmed with clutter. Also I'm Australian, from Perth, where I do not know anyone living in anything this small... so while people from other cities (new york/london etc) might not think it's small, it's very small compared to everyone I knows spaces (also, ironically I am probably the highest income earner amount my friendship group).
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We are a family of four, with two little kids. We have been raising them in a 970 sq ft house. We realistically use 400, 95% of the time. There were times when they were too young to be outside unsupervised that we felt as if someone had installed them up our backsides, but that passed quickly. We finished the basement last year, which bumped us up to 1200 sq ft, which feels downright luxurious.
One of the many plans we have for after the kids leave, is to sell the house and build a tiny house on a nice wooded piece of land a short walk from town. It would have one room, a bathroom, and a small loft and would definitely be under 500 sq ft. The one room would be kitchen/library/bedroom/study and the tiny loft would be for guests.
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Ok your americans with your feet that makes no sense to me lol let me convert it to meters so I understand.
100ft²= 9.290304m²
500ft²= 46.45152m²
I think there is a misconception here. 500 ft2 is 46,45151 is not tiny or you are spoiled brats or have many children.
Here is the rents for my investment apartment though I always go for high rent and these are in the capitol area of my country.
Year built comes first...
1970: 27 square meters(290.6 square feet)+balcony(balcony in Finland is never counted to the squaremeters) Rent: 724 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
1986: 30 square meters(322.9 square feet)+balcony. Rent 785 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
2014 25,3 square meters(270+ square feet) no balcony. Rent 780 euro/month including water but NOT including electricity.
1986 has very good location better then the others and is the biggest apartment of these. 2014 is so new so I take more rent for that. 1970 is older and decent location and therefore lower rent.
2014 is excellent built it has integrated dischwashing machine so it takes no space and clothes(laundry) washing machine is not needed in the apartment since the building has that as available for all who live there to use for free.
Anyway 25,3 square meters(270+ square feet) does feel tiny for me...
27 square meters a bit grey area yes maybe tiny...
30 square meters(322.9 square feet)+balcony is not tiny for me it is a small apartment and 2 people could well live there.
I myself live in a larger place then those above mentioned.
500 square feet is not tiny lol it is what I call decent sized apartment medium sized meant for at least a couple 2 persons or more.
Most Americans live in at least 2,000 square feet. Where I live it is normal for most middle to upper middle class families to live in more than 3,000 sq ft. My house is almost 4,000 sq ft for a family of 4 but I intend to down size in the next few years.
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I'm split on this issue. I like watching the tv shows and reading the magazine articles about tiny houses, and I love well-thought-out design in any living space. But. My strongest lean is towards homesteading or urban homesteading. These tiny houses have no real "kitchen". I mean yes, they could boil water for pasta on the tiny stove and store salad greens in the tiny fridge. But it seems that the tiny house lifestyle is geared mostly towards the eat-out-a-lot crowd, or at the very least the shop-daily-cook-daily crowd. I've seen several responses here along the lines of "yes-- if there's room for a large garden!" (I presume they mean mostly a veggie garden?) But what good is a large garden without (a) a chest freezer (b) a good cellar or cool storage space (c) a kitchen big enough to regularly cook what you've grown, maybe even canning it? (d) a pantry?
Even if you have zero interest in gardening or preserving, most FIRE-inspired people want to be able to shop smart, stocking up on things as they go on sale. If you have to buy the absolute smallest pack of toilet paper, you'll always be paying the highest price per square. You can't buy 3 months' worth of cheese because it's on a great sale, or a side of beef because it's so much cheaper that way than by the pound at the market.
I would be very interested to see something like a planned community of tiny houses with a large communal space to solve the problems above-- like a big communal kitchen, storage spaces, etc.
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I grew up with 6 people in a 1000ish square ft house, 1 bathroom.
Wifey and my first place together was 650 square feet and felt very roomy.
Now with 2 kids in a 1500 + 500 basement feels cavernous. We're talking about buying a townhouse or smaller place. 1200 square ft is fine. True tiny house? Not for us but I do feel we as a country could use some downsizing in terms of living space and the natural limits on stuff that would introduce.
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That's why I get confused by the super tiny houses on wheels. It seems like an RV would be a much more efficient and cheaper option.
Couple of reasons: A new RV is NOT cheap. Typically it also doesn't have a layout that appeals to many people. No loft. No open space. Too many crappy cabinets (or whatever). Insulation is poor, so energy use for heating/cooling is high. Ventilation is poor. Electricity may be entirely 12V, so you have to get specialty appliances, etc. RV doesn't have a wood stove of any type.
On the flip side: You put the tiny house on a trailer/wheels to avoid triggering local building codes. You can build safely and not-to-code.
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I'm split on this issue. I like watching the tv shows and reading the magazine articles about tiny houses, and I love well-thought-out design in any living space. But. My strongest lean is towards homesteading or urban homesteading. These tiny houses have no real "kitchen". I mean yes, they could boil water for pasta on the tiny stove and store salad greens in the tiny fridge. But it seems that the tiny house lifestyle is geared mostly towards the eat-out-a-lot crowd, or at the very least the shop-daily-cook-daily crowd. I've seen several responses here along the lines of "yes-- if there's room for a large garden!" (I presume they mean mostly a veggie garden?) But what good is a large garden without (a) a chest freezer (b) a good cellar or cool storage space (c) a kitchen big enough to regularly cook what you've grown, maybe even canning it? (d) a pantry?
Even if you have zero interest in gardening or preserving, most FIRE-inspired people want to be able to shop smart, stocking up on things as they go on sale. If you have to buy the absolute smallest pack of toilet paper, you'll always be paying the highest price per square. You can't buy 3 months' worth of cheese because it's on a great sale, or a side of beef because it's so much cheaper that way than by the pound at the market.
I would be very interested to see something like a planned community of tiny houses with a large communal space to solve the problems above-- like a big communal kitchen, storage spaces, etc.
Yep.
Toilet paper goes on sale at Costco, where do you store it? Even just garden tools. My beekeeping tools. Horse tack and equipment...I'm in a smallish house but I'd need at least another trailer for storing equipment/off season crap. And a garage/art studio/workout room: nobody has a weight set in a tiny house so far on the show.
I've been watching the Tiny House nation, and they do have amazing concepts, they use real size appliances, and they do have fairly ok kitchen space with truly innovative ideas thanks to the Zack guy, who is a fucking GENIUS.
For a couple that wanted a bar area to entertain friends they built a window that accordion folds away and a (tiled?) indoor/outdoor countertop to double the serving area. And drop down "sandwich stations" for someone who needed to prep multiple meals for a biz: a swing-away board that could hover near the countertop to place plates/food on.
His most amazing thing made me laugh: a bed that had a unique hinged desk underneath it. So, it's bed mode, you decide to do some work on your computer (homeowner was home office-ing). You then sort of Murphy bed it up....and the desk portion slides out.
The homeowner said "and do I glue everything on the desktop in place to fold back up?" and Zach showed him how he'd made it so the desk drops down totally level when you put the bed back down: your laptop and all the crap on the desk are not disturbed at all.
Truly amazing. Before tiny house, I thought that boats had the coolest space saving concepts....even more than tiny motor homes.
But Zach knocks it out of the park each week.
(not affiliated. Just a major fan.)
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Yep.
Toilet paper goes on sale at Costco, where do you store it? Even just garden tools. My beekeeping tools. Horse tack and equipment...I'm in a smallish house but I'd need at least another trailer for storing equipment/off season crap. And a garage/art studio/workout room: nobody has a weight set in a tiny house so far on the show.
I've been watching the Tiny House nation, and they do have amazing concepts, they use real size appliances, and they do have fairly ok kitchen space with truly innovative ideas thanks to the Zack guy, who is a fucking GENIUS.
For a couple that wanted a bar area to entertain friends they built a window that accordion folds away and a (tiled?) indoor/outdoor countertop to double the serving area. And drop down "sandwich stations" for someone who needed to prep multiple meals for a biz: a swing-away board that could hover near the countertop to place plates/food on.
His most amazing thing made me laugh: a bed that had a unique hinged desk underneath it. So, it's bed mode, you decide to do some work on your computer (homeowner was home office-ing). You then sort of Murphy bed it up....and the desk portion slides out.
The homeowner said "and do I glue everything on the desktop in place to fold back up?" and Zach showed him how he'd made it so the desk drops down totally level when you put the bed back down: your laptop and all the crap on the desk are not disturbed at all.
Truly amazing. Before tiny house, I thought that boats had the coolest space saving concepts....even more than tiny motor homes.
But Zach knocks it out of the park each week.
(not affiliated. Just a major fan.)
Yeah, I saw one episode, I think it was that show, with a similar concept. It was a refurbished school bus, with a murphy bed that had a desk on the bottom part. Desk could also fold up, leaving the floor space open for yoga. The school bus at least made sense because they could drive it. I saw several examples of "tiny" houses built on trailers, in which the owners had to have a truck strong enough to tow it-- no small job. At least one couple on the show had to upgrade their already-enormous pickup truck to something even bigger. The exact opposite of Mustachian! The school bus is already a finished shell, they kept the engine/ drivers seat/ entry door intact, and they put solar panels on top for electricity and hot water. They also used a full-sized chest freezer (modified to run warmer) as their fridge-- a lot of cold storage for a lot less electric usage. It was the only design I saw on the show that made sense in a portable-house way.
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My 10 year old and I are in about 450 sq feet. Have been for three years. I LOVE it. I did the same when I was on my own.
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Answering some of the q's in the thread, even though I'm late to this...
Sex, Night Pee, Sleep - Some of the designs have a main floor bedroom. I couldn't stand living in one of the "tiny" houses (have stayed in one, felt so claustrophobic) but my favourite is the Whidby, which is I think about 450 sq feet and has a main floor bedroom with a door that closes, as well as a loft (which my kid dreams of). This is the only one I would consider, because I have a need for my own room, with full-height ceiling and a door that closes against the world, and can't be bothered to climb up and down a ladder. When ppl speak of sex noise, that can get as loud as a person wants, so how big a house do you feel you need to accommodate that? Sex noise, if loud enough, can be heard across a 1200 sq foot house, or a 4000 sq foot house. If it's a concern, I would think sound-insulating one room in a house tiny or massive would be what you're looking to do.
Hosting - We've had up to three people staying with us for up to three days, no problem, and one staying with us for up to 5 consecutive, no problem. We've had 12 people inside for a birthday party, no problem, and handfuls for teas regularly. I plan to start hosting weekly-ish dinners shortly, too.
Could We Live In One? - Yes, if the bloody Powers That Be would allow any of us to. Pretty much illegal all through my area.
Best Of All Worlds - So I live in a 450 sq foot cottage/suite. I have acres of yard, and the landlord takes care of it all :)
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My SO and I always joke that we need a tiny house with a BIG garage! We're far more attached to the classic car and having a machine shop than we are about the size of the house. A trailer based house wouldn't work, but a really teeny loft or 1 bedroom home would be perfect.
Like this?:
(http://www.bizbash.com/content/editorial/storyimg/big/calvin-klein-singapore-041214-concept-house-00.jpg)
or maybe more like,:
(http://www.makingthishome.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/house-in-an-airplane-hangar.jpg)
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I currently live in a 400 sq. ft. apartment with a small yard. It's perfect for just me. However, my wife will join me in about 2 months. It might be a little tight when that happens. We will see.
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I think a tiny house for about $20k would be a great place as a weekend get away if you own a bunch of land. I've been debating on getting one, or a prefab cabin and just building it myself in a few years when we buy land.
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Yes vote here. We live in a space considered small by American standards and are downsizing again. We dream of an off the grid Tiny House and really enjoy Unplugged Nation on the FYI channel. Great ideas, good stories, and planting seeds for change.
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I would love it.
I think my husband would be on board eventually, and he travels a lot anyway.
Our current apartment is about 845 square feet but that's with a spare room and some wasted space, so it could be a lot more efficient.
The hurdle would be guests. We live in a different city to our families and a lot of our friends, so we often have people in our spare room. Not that I wouldn't mind an excuse to decline certain requests...
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I am pretty sure most of those people we see on tv dropping from 3000sq ft houses down into 200sq ft trailers are kidding themselves about the long term feasibility of the situation.
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Meh. When poor people live in, we mock them as "trailers".
I'm not sure I see the point, unless you live in a very high COL area, and then I'd rather move someplace with cheaper real estate.
There are more 2 bedroom house in my neighborhood than there are 4 bedroom houses. I've lived in pretty small apartments, and if you've got the money to fix them up, they can be pretty nice, but you have to really, really like the people you're living with. A lot.
I'm pretty happy with my little 3 bedroom ranch house where we have room to garden and make wine and cook and sew and make pottery and generally do stuff.
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I think you'd have to be a minimalist at heart. I'm not-I like the comfort of my books around me. And DH is a clutterbug, so it would not work for us. Lots of the 55+ crowd here in Florida, however, live in small trailers or manufactured housing. It can be extremely affordable.
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We are a family of four, with two little kids. We have been raising them in a 970 sq ft house. We realistically use 400, 95% of the time. There were times when they were too young to be outside unsupervised that we felt as if someone had installed them up our backsides, but that passed quickly. We finished the basement last year, which bumped us up to 1200 sq ft, which feels downright luxurious.
One of the many plans we have for after the kids leave, is to sell the house and build a tiny house on a nice wooded piece of land a short walk from town. It would have one room, a bathroom, and a small loft and would definitely be under 500 sq ft. The one room would be kitchen/library/bedroom/study and the tiny loft would be for guests.
I've got the same exact plan except mine involves two tiny houses under 500 sq ft...one for me and one for Mrs. Rabbit.
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My wife and I have agreed that sub-1000 square feet might be an option for our cabin build...but not sub 500. I strongly suspect it will end up in excess of 1000 square feet. When building your "dream cabin" we are finding it hard to compromise on certain things.
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Nope. My current house is too big, though. I'm an introvert and like to 'get away.' For the 3 (3 humans + 3 dogs) of us, I'd say ~1500 sq feet would be good. Our main issue is that we have lots of hobbies and need a large garage (bikes, camping, ice hockey, tri-gear, motorcycles, etc). So 1500 sq foot house with 500+ sq foot garage. :D
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Nope. My current house is too big, though. I'm an introvert and like to 'get away.' For the 3 (3 humans + 3 dogs) of us, I'd say ~1500 sq feet would be good. Our main issue is that we have lots of hobbies and need a large garage (bikes, camping, ice hockey, tri-gear, motorcycles, etc). So 1500 sq foot house with 500+ sq foot garage. :D
I could handle 500sq ft plus a 1500sq ft garage... :D
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My DH and I just bought a Condo that's 500 square feet, so yeah, we would be able too.
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We've lived in 2 houses over the past decade. Both were in the 1300-1400 heated sq ft range. Before kids we usually kept two bedrooms closed up and only used them for guests or a little bit of storage. With kids, we now use the bedrooms but the kids could share if really necessary. I would say the two of us could probably get along fine with 700-800 heated sq ft, and another 200 or so for the kids. Layout would be very important. I do have an extensive assortment of tools and equipment that would not fit in this space and would need to be housed in unheated space.
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My wife and I have agreed that sub-1000 square feet might be an option for our cabin build...but not sub 500. I strongly suspect it will end up in excess of 1000 square feet. When building your "dream cabin" we are finding it hard to compromise on certain things.
That's it. We just signed a contract with a local builder to build our not-so-tiny 400 square feet house on the island. Small footprint, but with 14-foot ceilings and large windows, the design feels roomy and airy and it will be just perfect for my wife and I. I was hoping to build it myself with the help of a few friends in November 2016, but I can't wait any longer and want to have it ready by next summer. Having our house ready for us might be the incentive to get over my one-more-year syndrome.
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It may not qualify for the "tiny" house category, but I dream of downsizing from my current ~1500sqft house to something much smaller. When it's just me, I pretty much live in the master bedroom/bath suite area. Call it 250sqft (yes, it's huge). Add on 100sqft for kitchen space and stacked w/d, and I'd be happy as a clam. So long as all of the space is used well, I think that's more than enough.
The rest of the house is... not precisely useless, but of little value to me. I don't do a ton of hosting, and once DS is out of the house, I'd be happy to get rid of the extra bedrooms as an incentive for him to be on his own and not live in mom's basement. :)
DBF is in the same boat, though he may want a bit more space. We've talked a little bit about what we'd like in a house when we eventually move in together, but his current house is a bit smaller than mine and I know he feels the same way about wasted space.
Honestly? My escape fantasy is living in a little trailer/RV/cabin on a few acres of land up in the mountains. I know it sounds white trash, but the simplicity of it really appeals to me. The RV life in general (older RV, nothing sparkly new) is my goal for the first few years of retirement.
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Absolutely. Even though I was raised in a big house, I have no problem living in small accommodation. I do live in a city centre, so space is at a premium.
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That's it. We just signed a contract with a local builder to build our not-so-tiny 400 square feet house on the island. Small footprint, but with 14-foot ceilings and large windows, the design feels roomy and airy and it will be just perfect for my wife and I. I was hoping to build it myself with the help of a few friends in November 2016, but I can't wait any longer and want to have it ready by next summer. Having our house ready for us might be the incentive to get over my one-more-year syndrome.
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I hope you post about this. I'd definetly like to know more. I never thought about it but having higher ceiling would make a place feel bigger. I like that you could have windows higher up that let in light versus ones that are level with you and have to have blinds.
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Reading a design book on smaller houses, some of the tips were to have neither all 8' ceilings nor all 10' (or other), but to vary them. Another section talked about how to get way more light out of windows by what's around them inside. I'm fascinated! Book: more not so big solutions for your home by Sarah Susanka.
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While I think the idea is romantic, I could not live in a tiny house. For someone who uses a house for a place to sleep and relax primarily, it is ideal. For ones like us, who garden, work on cars, blacksmith, knit, can, sew, bake bread.......No, it is impractical. We do not own many personal things- clothes, music, books, etc., but own lots of things that ultimately enable us to live a frugal life by doing for ourselves.
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While I think the idea is romantic, I could not live in a tiny house. For someone who uses a house for a place to sleep and relax primarily, it is ideal. For ones like us, who garden, work on cars, blacksmith, knit, can, sew, bake bread.......No, it is impractical. We do not own many personal things- clothes, music, books, etc., but own lots of things that ultimately enable us to live a frugal life by doing for ourselves.
There is a third option, though, that many people do (those in small apartments in expensive cities, people in RVs or official "tiny homes", nomads, etc): shared workspaces. This can be anything from a community center (community kitchens, art rooms, etc) to cohousing (common commercial kitchen, common workshop, etc) to coworking spaces (art and/or internet spaces) to libraries. For sure some people prefer to do everything at home, but there are lots of tiny-home dwellers that do all of the above, many of them in their home (baking bread, canning, gardening, sewing, knitting) and projects that require more room, or the energy of others around them, in shared workspaces.
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I would love to live in a co housing community of tiny houses or RV's. Years ago I considered buying an RV park and trying to start one. But honestly, I'm too flighty. I like the idea but am not interested in putting in the work! So, anyone out there who wants to do this, let me know. :-)
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While I think the idea is romantic, I could not live in a tiny house. For someone who uses a house for a place to sleep and relax primarily, it is ideal. For ones like us, who garden, work on cars, blacksmith, knit, can, sew, bake bread.......No, it is impractical. We do not own many personal things- clothes, music, books, etc., but own lots of things that ultimately enable us to live a frugal life by doing for ourselves.
There is a third option, though, that many people do (those in small apartments in expensive cities, people in RVs or official "tiny homes", nomads, etc): shared workspaces. This can be anything from a community center (community kitchens, art rooms, etc) to cohousing (common commercial kitchen, common workshop, etc) to coworking spaces (art and/or internet spaces) to libraries. For sure some people prefer to do everything at home, but there are lots of tiny-home dwellers that do all of the above, many of them in their home (baking bread, canning, gardening, sewing, knitting) and projects that require more room, or the energy of others around them, in shared workspaces.
I have a serious car hobby and have enough tools to outfit a decent shop...but the thought has crossed my mind of selling almost everything and just getting down to what I can fit in a (overland/expedition-built) truck, keep expenses really low (rent a room in whatever city I'm working in), and then when it's time for vacation just take the truck and go. I know plenty of people around the country, so if I needed access to any tools/etc that I didn't have with me, I'm sure I could find someone to assist.
But...I have so many tools/etc and I'm not quite ready to give up my house.
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I would love to live in a co housing community of tiny houses or RV's. Years ago I considered buying an RV park and trying to start one. But honestly, I'm too flighty. I like the idea but am not interested in putting in the work! So, anyone out there who wants to do this, let me know. :-)
i am! seems like zoning issues are still the biggest limiter in most places. the problem is finding reasonable land costs here in the SF bay area so I'm thinking of looking further north in Sonoma or Mendocino ctys.
I see the OP is going ahead with a 400 sq-ft house; is there a minimum size in your municipality?
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The main problem as I see it is the electricity, water, sewer/septic and purchase of the land all become such a big portion of the price in a lot of areas that the actual difference in the cost of the house construction on a 200sqft house vs a 1000sqft house is pretty small.
One property I was checking out, the guy paid over $25,000 to drill the 400 foot well!
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That's why shared infrastructure is such a critical design piece of a "tiny village." Shared facilities would start with things like a well, sewer, and shared storage. Then you move up to solar power, shared workspace like kitchens, outdoor areas like fire pits and pavillions, pole barns, and shared gardens.
There are a few of these starting up around the country, I'm toying with the idea of starting one myself. The barriers from municipalities are substantial, so finding the right community with welcoming leadership is where we're stuck at the moment.
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Axecleaver, which one do you think is closest to fruition?
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I agree with a lot of the principles of being a frugal person but one place I am not very interested in being cheap is the space we have in our home. Sure it may be considered too big and we could downsize but we are happy here. We save money elsewhere.
Being cramped with 2 kids...I will work more to pay for the space.
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Somewhat tangential question, but given all the crap going on with the changing climate, is anyone considering the self-sufficiency implications of drought on local availability of food and water for and the increased risk of natural disaster? A lot of this stuff is hard to monetize and build into our risk and FIRE planning models. (witness: the burning of the west coast, droughts, etc etc)
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I am with AgileTurtle - I am cooped up so much in the winter that I need some space. There is a reason people used to get cabin fever! The down side of being retired is that you are not heading off to a job every day, where you have a change of scenery and people to interact with. If I didn't bestir myself I could stay home for a week without seeing anyone.
Plus at this point the fewer stairs the better - no way would I want to sleep in a loft.
I know my present house is too big, but it is almost impossible to find anything much smaller around here. Even old farm houses are bigger - and all the stairs!
A summer cottage, on the other hand, would be fine if small - but summer cottages attract visitors (welcome ones), and the weather is not always perfect, so there is still some square footage needed just to have some place to put the bodies on a bad weather day. A screened porch helps, but is not enough.
If I may, the key to a summer cottage on bad weather days (assuming this means moderate wind and heavy rainfall, at most) is good trees.
There's a lake cottage in my extended family where I go for 9 days each year with my parents, brothers,uncles,aunts,cousins, and grandparents (always over 20 people). The cottage is 2 BR, 1 BR with a large main room that transitions from small kitchen to small dining table/food storage to seating area for no more than 8 people reading in the evenings. Then there's a second room with a card table and a couch. But the masterpiece is the deck, which has a larger footprint than the house, and is under two trees that provide complete cover from the rain. Inclement weather just means you're not out in the yard. And evenings are an impressive cooperation of packing in for card games and reading while the mosquitoes are bad.
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I currently live in a very large house with my very large family, so the tiny house dream is for much later in my life. However, I did have a taste of what a smaller kitchen can be like, this weekend, when we stayed in a place with a kitchen 1/2 the size of my current digs. It was so much easier to cook, when everything was within arms reach. Same with cleaning up...done in a flash. Very interesting for my personal research!
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Being cramped with 2 kids...I will work more to pay for the space.
I need one small room to escape from children regularly, but other I never consider it "cramped". I love living in smaller spaces with kids, experiencing it as "cozy" as well as safe. Minimalism helps, though, as we end up with lots of room still. I grew up in a massive house where it took us forever to find each other, etc. We often ended up squishing together in a hallway or bedroom -all the rest of the giant house empty- as we craved that connection.
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Somewhat tangential question, but given all the crap going on with the changing climate, is anyone considering the self-sufficiency implications of drought on local availability of food and water for and the increased risk of natural disaster? A lot of this stuff is hard to monetize and build into our risk and FIRE planning models. (witness: the burning of the west coast, droughts, etc etc)
Rent instead of buy!
+1. That's what I do. Go with mobility, same as so many cultures have done for eons before, and a few still do.
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I could definitely live in tiny house. The only problem is that where I live they don't really allow for mobile tiny houses (or not that I know of).
Here in Honolulu, a 300-500 ft apartment can run for about $200k. I would imagine a mobile tiny house would cost much more but at least there wouldn't be the monthly maintenance cost.
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My wife and I already live in 550 sq ft, and I think we could easily chop off a hundred or more off that without even noticing. So sure, it's definitely appealing and would be hardly any adjustment.
Really? Awesome - is it a true tiny home that can be transported fairly easily, or is it a traditional home but built smaller and only to your immediate needs?
It's an apartment. So a tiny house is even more appealing because our neighbors would be farther away. :)
Strange, I thought you liked crummy neighbors. You seemed to attack me in another thread for not wanting to live next to the ghetto section 8 house with 10 people living in a four bedroom house, having loud parties all the time, leaving trash everywhere, but here you are wishing for your own neighbors to be farther away just because? What a hypocrite...
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I would live in a tiny house if it was on acreage. But really you could just do the same with an RV for less no? You could build a pretty cheap roof structure over the RV parking spot so it is not as exposed to the elements.
Right now I'd rather move back into one of my rentals that is paid for, than live in a tiny house. It is just under 1K square feet, 3 bed 1 bath, and walkable with lot's of transit nearby and a relatively quick commute to good jobs. If I was done "living" and wanted to get away, yes, a tiny house in the middle of nowhere sounds appealing.
My only gripe about said house is that it's on a slightly busy street. During rush hour there are enough people that use the street where it is a little annoying if you are home at the time. But other than rush hour or early spring/summer days it's not that bad. The street is mostly dead during the day, and pretty much dead after 8 PM. So no issues sleeping (all the bedrooms face the back yard anyways...).
If I used one of the back rooms as the living room (you can't even hear the traffic noise from there) or go back to working a job where I am home AFTER rush hour and not home all the time, then it's not that bad at all, and it's a normal house to live in that's paid for, so I'd rather live there than a trailer for now.
The tiny home thing seems fairly new anyways, and no telling it will last. Plus it takes a special kind of woman who wants to live with you in what is essentially a fancy shed on wheels. If you're a single guy, it's something to think about.
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My house is already pretty small. 862 sq ft if I'm remembering correctly. It started as a 600 sq ft, but a previous owner added a laundry room and another bedroom on the back. It's just me, but I could live in a smaller space IF I had a good size root cellar beneath the house. I grow and preserve a lot of my own food, and that takes up a lot of room.
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Here in Honolulu, a 300-500 ft apartment can run for about $200k. I would imagine a mobile tiny house would cost much more but at least there wouldn't be the monthly maintenance cost.
What if you did a stealth build that looked like a food truck or trailer? There are so many of them in Honolulu that you would blend right in. A mobile tiny house can be built for about $30k, and much cheaper if you do the work yourself.
Here's a clever couple in the Virgin Islands that turned their boat into a pizza-boat that delivers: http://tinyhouseblog.com/tag/food-truck/
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Here's a clever couple in the Virgin Islands that turned their boat into a pizza-boat that delivers: http://tinyhouseblog.com/tag/food-truck/
I completely hate boats (it's weird!! I hate very few things, but I hate boats), yet even to me this story was AWESOME!! (I mostly loved the part about how he left his previous world to live his passion, and found his beloved there! And then she designed this.)
Alas, as several in this thread have found, they too found they are no longer permitted to live in their tiny house, in this case presumably because it's also a commercial kitchen. Foiled again, d'oh! I find that silly, too, since so many food service things are very unhygienic yet allowed to continue (because Health Man can't have eyes everywhere), while this couple may be perfectly careful and hygienic but shut down. Bah.
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The tiny home thing seems fairly new anyways, and no telling it will last.
I think 99.99% of human history will disagree with you that the 'tiny home thing' is fairly new. Hell, I bet at least 50% of the current human population would disagree with you right now. People have been living on less than the standard 1200-1500sf US home and will continue to do so.
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The tiny home thing seems fairly new anyways, and no telling it will last.
I think 99.99% of human history will disagree with you that the 'tiny home thing' is fairly new. Hell, I bet at least 50% of the current human population would disagree with you right now. People have been living on less than the standard 1200-1500sf US home and will continue to do so.
This is true. I live in a subdivision that was developed in the late 60's; the average house size is 920 sf and they don't stay on the market long once they go up for sale. In my city at least, more people (including families) are buying smaller because it's cheaper to renovate and add all the desirable upgrades.
I really like my home, but I could easily see myself living in something even smaller.
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Absolutely not in that tiny house that you showed pictures of. It is not about the size, but I don't trust
wood and I am a city person type. There are some things I would worry about with wood. It gets rotten and insects that attack the wood and vulnerability to fire.
However consider this I am PC gamer(though I also like sports so I am not super nerd). Previously I played with a desktop computer, but nowadays I prefer a laptop.
One of my NEW friends who is a Magic The Gathering player and he and his oldest(he is in high school) son and they will play with me and some friends during next weekend.
What Magic The Gathering???
In 2015 it has 20 million registered competition players and I am one of them.
Magic: The Gathering - Inside the World's Most Played Trading Card Game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plr81gaUIr0
Anyway that same my new friend is the national team coach junior(i.e NOT adults) for my country Finland in swimming(and no they don't get huge salaries though it is full paid job).
For work reasons(he needs to travel a lot for work reasons) he has a house car, but shortly said it is clearly bigger then your pictures. However he did not buy brand new car but still enough new and good looking. One more thing in addition to that his family has a normal big apartment and they have three children.
There is nothing wrong with small size if you want to rent it to other people... my 2014 built apartment pictures:
http://s6.postimg.org/xcxl69nip/Kitchen.jpg (http://s6.postimg.org/xcxl69nip/Kitchen.jpg)
http://s6.postimg.org/51c1983m9/Mainroom.jpg (http://s6.postimg.org/51c1983m9/Mainroom.jpg)
http://s6.postimg.org/kbbwgez4h/Bathroom.jpg (http://s6.postimg.org/kbbwgez4h/Bathroom.jpg)
This is the smallest but newest 2014 built apartment that I rent in my country's capitol area and my style no wooden walls.
The other apartments I rent to other people are more or less bigger then that but older. Anyway I have record of living temporary in 8 square meter apartment, but right now I live in a house that is not even remotely small and no it is not built of wood. I myself don't live in near capitol area though my investment apartments are there.
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This is the exact style of boat we live in (although ours isn't quite as clean). The rooms are small but the back yard is enormous. :)
http://usailbc.com/information/
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This is the exact style of boat we live in (although ours isn't quite as clean). The rooms are small but the back yard is enormous. :)
http://usailbc.com/information/
This is the exact same boat my daughter and BF were living on, until they split up last summer. Also not as clean, they had two dogs on board...These are fantastic boats, and I am hoping to get something similar, perhaps a bit smaller.
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I have lived and am currently living in a 5th wheel with my fiancé and chocolate lab. We have lived in here for 2.5 years. It's 42', but a toy hauler, so has a 12' garage. We basically live in a 30' 5th wheel with an extra storage for tools/food/bikes/etc.
It's fine for me, and works well with our lifestyle as I do travel work all over. We plan to continue this lifestyle another 8 years or so, and have kids in 4-5 years. We'll have enough room for small ones, but will stop traveling and hopefully near FIRE by then.
The good thing is, we will be pretty easy to please in terms of house "size." Unfortunately, I have many other wants which will likely make my home purchase some day pretty expensive. Minimum 3 bed/2 ba. Around 1500 sq ft or so, but not too picky on that. Minimum of 1 acre, but preferably at least 2-4. Large shop for home gym and area for metal working. Somewhere that doesn't get incredibly hot or cold, and within an hour of a decent ski resort, preferably closer. Will likely end up in the PNW.
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Meh. When poor people live in, we mock them as "trailers".
I'm not sure I see the point, unless you live in a very high COL area, and then I'd rather move someplace with cheaper real estate.
There are more 2 bedroom house in my neighborhood than there are 4 bedroom houses. I've lived in pretty small apartments, and if you've got the money to fix them up, they can be pretty nice, but you have to really, really like the people you're living with. A lot.
I'm pretty happy with my little 3 bedroom ranch house where we have room to garden and make wine and cook and sew and make pottery and generally do stuff.
My wife and I were just discussing this the other day... how is a "tiny home" (as in those in popular media and television) any different than a trailer or mobile home? Why is there such a distinction... fit and finish? I've seen some nice mobile homes too. Why is a tiny home cool and sexy but a mobile home perceived as trashy?
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My wife and I were just discussing this the other day... how is a "tiny home" (as in those in popular media and television) any different than a trailer or mobile home? Why is there such a distinction... fit and finish? I've seen some nice mobile homes too. Why is a tiny home cool and sexy but a mobile home perceived as trashy?
It's a fair question, yes.
RVs, mobile homes, etc, can all certainly be referred to as tiny homes, if they are the versions on the small side. None are "more right" or "better" than the new wave of tiny homes. Any of the above can be ugly, beautiful, well-built, poorly built, etc.
The tiniest of tiny homes can be pulled with a truck, so the pros and cons comparison is usually considered against a small RV. Here's the gist of what people said for preferring a tiny home over a traditional RV:
- better insulated; very important in some regions' winters (though can insulate under RV and put skirt around)
- longer-lasting parts (obviously this is dependent on how high end one goes in their tiny home, but the "official" ones tend to recommend and incorporate elements intended to last for decades)
- esthetics; for those of us to whom this is critically important to happiness
These are the three aspects I've seen referenced in many different blogs discussing it. They make sense to me. There are a few RVs that I find esthetically pleasing enough that I would happily live in them, but by far I prefer the look of the miniature houses, and for me that aspect is as important as any other.
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I would imagine the tiny houses aren't nearly as mobile as rv's and normal 5th wheels. For some odd reason, they seem like they may be larger? The legal width of any road vehicle is 8' without an "oversized load" permit. Most of these tiny houses are bigger than 8' wide. Also, they probably don't have all the holding tanks and such most normal rv's do.
They seem great for what they are, but definitely not a replacement for all. Seems like they'd be great for like vacation properties or desolate locations. Both of those insances, however, I'd probably want a real foundation. They seem closer to being a mobile home than comparable to an Rv or 5th wheel.
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I would imagine the tiny houses aren't nearly as mobile as rv's and normal 5th wheels. For some odd reason, they seem like they may be larger? The legal width of any road vehicle is 8' without an "oversized load" permit. Most of these tiny houses are bigger than 8' wide. Also, they probably don't have all the holding tanks and such most normal rv's do.
They seem great for what they are, but definitely not a replacement for all. Seems like they'd be great for like vacation properties or desolate locations. Both of those insances, however, I'd probably want a real foundation. They seem closer to being a mobile home than comparable to an Rv or 5th wheel.
There's a wide range of sizes; people choose them with their dream in mind: travel or staying put.
The larger ones (definitely my dream one, which is 450 sq ft) have to be on a foundation. The smaller ones usually stay on a trailer and can be pulled no problem. Some people do travel full-time in the tiniest ones; same amenities as a traditional RV. There are a number of lovely blogs and videos depicting this.
All sizes -whether on a trailer or on a foundation- are found in cities as well as in desolate areas, etc. Some people use them as a guest home in their back yard, some as their full time home, some as a vacation home, some as an RV. I've seen several in Vancouver, one on its trailer parked permanently on the street, several in back yards.
The catch is that most areas (urban and rural) deem it illegal to park them, and/or live in them full-time, and/or have them as the primary home on a lot. These are major barriers for those of us who love them.
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I would imagine the tiny houses aren't nearly as mobile as rv's and normal 5th wheels. For some odd reason, they seem like they may be larger? The legal width of any road vehicle is 8' without an "oversized load" permit. Most of these tiny houses are bigger than 8' wide. Also, they probably don't have all the holding tanks and such most normal rv's do.
They seem great for what they are, but definitely not a replacement for all. Seems like they'd be great for like vacation properties or desolate locations. Both of those insances, however, I'd probably want a real foundation. They seem closer to being a mobile home than comparable to an Rv or 5th wheel.
There's a wide range of sizes; people choose them with their dream in mind: travel or staying put.
The larger ones (definitely my dream one, which is 450 sq ft) have to be on a foundation. The smaller ones usually stay on a trailer and can be pulled no problem. Some people do travel full-time in the tiniest ones; same amenities as a traditional RV. There are a number of lovely blogs and videos depicting this.
All sizes -whether on a trailer or on a foundation- are found in cities as well as in desolate areas, etc. Some people use them as a guest home in their back yard, some as their full time home, some as a vacation home, some as an RV. I've seen several in Vancouver, one on its trailer parked permanently on the street, several in back yards.
The catch is that most areas (urban and rural) deem it illegal to park them, and/or live in them full-time, and/or have them as the primary home on a lot. These are major barriers for those of us who love them.
Are there companies that make pre-built ones? If they are as mobile as you say I could be interested. As I mentioned before, I already live full time in a 5th wheel, so the size is no challenge for me. One thing rv's and 5th wheels have going for them is the slides which add a LOT of space vs something just 8ft wide. That turns a 8' wide trailer into 14' wide for the most part.
Like I said, my interests are obviously for the mobile purpose.
I also wonder if Rv parks allow them? I've been at Rv parks all over the country and haven't seen one yet.
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Maybe for a short period if I was single.
Not for long term with my girlfriend, doesn't help I'm 6ft +
Sam
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my current house is under 1000sqft....like 925-950. 3 bed 1 bath.
I could easily see myself doing a 2 bed 1 bath. not sure id wanna go under 750sqft.
As long as i have a huge ass garage to play in :)
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Are there companies that make pre-built ones?
Yep. There are companies that sell them built and/or sell plans for cheaper DIY. Just Google pre-built tiny house mobile or anything along those lines.
I also wonder if Rv parks allow them? I've been at Rv parks all over the country and haven't seen one yet.
Yes, the smallest ones are legally RVs, so can be parked there. It's just a volume thing: There aren't heaps of these around.
For links to some great perpetual-travel blogs, Google travelling by tiny house. So sweet :)
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This is the exact style of boat we live in (although ours isn't quite as clean). The rooms are small but the back yard is enormous. :)
http://usailbc.com/information/
The boat looks very nice in my opinion. If the climate does not have winter with ice and snow then boat sounds interesting.
Honestly my newest 2014 built apartment that I rent to other people is exactly so clean as the pictures in my previous post in this thread however in that apartment I have an excellent renter.
Now my comment was not meant to annoy. For example once a USA person told me that he would never tolerate rent paid late. Yeah, but the law works otherwise in Finland(Europe). In Finland(and even more so in Sweden) the law is as on default more on the renters side then the landlord.
The law system is so different. In my country you are not quilty unless proven and in USA you are guilty unless you can prove you are innocent. Of course that rough idea does not apply literally always, but that gives hint of difference.
My point being world is grey and it is honestly subjective taste what is better USA or Europe but I believe both are good.
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I'd love to live in a tiny house. However, I'd like land (room for chickens) and a bit of a workshop area. I'm still trying to convince DW of the idea, but I think I will have a long road before she accepts. :)
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Back in my single days I started saving for ~5-10 acres of land and then planned to live in a mobile home, build 600sf cabin, or build a small house inside a big barn, like 40x60' barn/workshop, gotta have a barn/workshop/GSD Building (Get Shit Done). I really think that's pretty much everything I desire to be completely content with life.
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i could if i had a 50x50 garage next door which is what i think people who live in tiny houses and broadcast that on youtube or HGTV fail to mention. not 50x50, but just that they have a building for overflow.
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I would love to live in a co housing community of tiny houses or RV's. Years ago I considered buying an RV park and trying to start one. But honestly, I'm too flighty. I like the idea but am not interested in putting in the work! So, anyone out there who wants to do this, let me know. :-)
i am! seems like zoning issues are still the biggest limiter in most places. the problem is finding reasonable land costs here in the SF bay area so I'm thinking of looking further north in Sonoma or Mendocino ctys.
I see the OP is going ahead with a 400 sq-ft house; is there a minimum size in your municipality?
There is a tiny house community starting in Boulder where one can bring a tiny house and pay lot rent, or rent a tiny house.
MYself, I am waiting for counties and cities to get on board. I think they will eventually. I would love to buy land, put up a permanent tiny house, and a not-so-tiny garage/shop.
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i could if i had a 50x50 garage next door which is what i think people who live in tiny houses and broadcast that on youtube or HGTV fail to mention. not 50x50, but just that they have a building for overflow.
No one I know with ~$450 sq feet has this, so that's why they wouldn't mention it. I don't know about the smaller ones (don't personally know anyone with the under 450, except one as a guesthouse).
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i could if i had a 50x50 garage next door which is what i think people who live in tiny houses and broadcast that on youtube or HGTV fail to mention. not 50x50, but just that they have a building for overflow.
No one I know with ~$450 sq feet has this, so that's why they wouldn't mention it. I don't know about the smaller ones (don't personally know anyone with the under 450, except one as a guesthouse).
Yup. The wife and I lived in a 416 sq ft condo for the last 8 years or so, and had no extra storage whatsoever. It was about twice the space we needed (we upgraded from a smaller place, but not sure on the exact size of that one), though the kitchen could have been a little bigger.
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A while ago someone asked which communities are making the most progress. Found a good list of intentional tiny house communities here: http://www.tinyhousecommunity.com/places.htm
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A while ago someone asked which communities are making the most progress. Found a good list of intentional tiny house communities here: http://www.tinyhousecommunity.com/places.htm
Awesome, thanks for the link!
I so want to live in a Mustachian tiny home community.
This millennium's version of an Epicurean commune:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kg_47J6sy3A
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Found a good list of intentional tiny house communities here: http://www.tinyhousecommunity.com/places.htm
What a fantastic counterpoint to the many cohousing communities that have been building very large units, unnecessarily driving project costs up. Thanks, Axecleaver!
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Back in my single days I started saving for ~5-10 acres of land and then planned to live in a mobile home, build 600sf cabin, or build a small house inside a big barn, like 40x60' barn/workshop, gotta have a barn/workshop/GSD Building (Get Shit Done). I really think that's pretty much everything I desire to be completely content with life.
Glad to see others in this thread with the same sentiment. I'm renting a 1700 sq ft house with 3 others and half the space is wasted, including an extra living room and bedroom. When I initially entered the lease, I balked at paying for wasted space. However, the oversize 2 car garage, already with ample built in storage and a work bench was AMAZING. The garage is the second most used room in the house after the bedroom.
Small house, big shop is how I like it.
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I could live with quite a bit less house space than I have. I would be fine with living room, bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen. Many cities have minimum square footage for houses that requires more house than some want. I think minimums are to make houses more uniform and also to raise values for property taxes. I still have plans for a 1,200 square foot house that is by no means tiny. I was looking at changes that would reduce the size even further. I almost built a house instead of bought existing, but there was no certainty on what building a house would cost.
I think my ideal at this point in my life would be an apartment on top of a large garage/shop. I would need to be able to build with cash as I doubt anyone would finance it.
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My parents told me that before they moved to America they use to live in <100 sq ft room
Said that it was one of their happiest times
I'm planning to find somewhere like that, sometime after I leave for college
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Husband and I live and work out of ~550 square feet (1 room is dedicated office space). I've always said that, if we had just 1 more foot of kitchen counter space and 1 more room so we could get away from each other now and then, it'd be perfect. That extra room could easily be a deck, though.
I toy with the tiny house idea often. My one beef with tiny houses is the loft bed they usually include. Short headspace and ladders in the middle of the night are just an accident waiting to happen for me.
Interesting to see the space others here are living in. Very cool.
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My one beef with tiny houses is the loft bed they usually include. Short headspace and ladders in the middle of the night are just an accident waiting to happen for me.
This is one reason I prefer the Whidby tiny house. It has a bedroom on the ground floor (as well as the loft that my kid wants).
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I could live with quite a bit less house space than I have. I would be fine with living room, bedroom, bathroom, and kitchen. Many cities have minimum square footage for houses that requires more house than some want. I think minimums are to make houses more uniform and also to raise values for property taxes. I still have plans for a 1,200 square foot house that is by no means tiny. I was looking at changes that would reduce the size even further. I almost built a house instead of bought existing, but there was no certainty on what building a house would cost.
I think my ideal at this point in my life would be an apartment on top of a large garage/shop. I would need to be able to build with cash as I doubt anyone would finance it.
So do a reverse garage conversion. Design/build your downstairs as one massive space you can convert into your garage/shop as soon as you get your final permits.
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I have lived in as little as 50sq ft by myself. The smallest space my wife and I have lived in was a 700sq ft apartment that was more than big enough. I imagine 500 sq ft or less would be snug, but not unbearable. Would making hosting guests a challenge though ...
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I have lived in as little as 50sq ft by myself. The smallest space my wife and I have lived in was a 700sq ft apartment that was more than big enough. I imagine 500 sq ft or less would be snug, but not unbearable. Would making hosting guests a challenge though ...
My husband and I live in a 530 sq ft home and we are able to host up to 2 additional couples without it becoming too cramped.
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Yeah, I'm in about 450sf and regularly have 1-3 guests for up to four days or so. Works great! Haven't tried four, or a configuration of two couples for that long though.
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Everyone should see the film Room about a young woman who lives locked in a shed,for 7 years. She raises her 5 year old son there.
The shed looks to me to be about 110 sq ft.