The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: Bob W on December 08, 2014, 11:32:21 AM
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So here is the challenge
You can flush toilets at work, friends, public places as much as you like.
You can pee in your toilet and wait for 4-8 pee sessions prior to flushing. You can pee in your yard, in a urine diversion bucket, flower pots, off your deck if you like.
Pooping can be done at work or public places. (I don’t think your friends and family will appreciate it much at their house?)
There are no points for this but you may find that a roll of toilet paper last for well over a year. If that is the case, you may save well over $100 in toilet paper alone.
How long can you go without flushing your home toilet?
Additional Resources:
How to make your own humanure toilet and never flush again while providing free fertilizer for your garden.
http://www.humanurehandbook.com/humanure_toilet.html
For a better and healthier pooping experience try the squaty potty –
http://squattypotty.com/
Here is some info on urine diversion for fertilization
http://gizmodo.com/is-human-pee-the-future-of-fertilizer-1500567303
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We have a 4 yr old & a 6 yr old, so we can't always poop elsewhere, but we do use the ol "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down" saying. Works well, our water consumption is down since we started that a coupla years ago. When we put in the second bathroom, it'll be a composting toilet. I haven't read the links yet, but I'm keen to do it myself if possible...
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We have a 4 yr old & a 6 yr old, so we can't always poop elsewhere, but we do use the ol "If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down" saying. Works well, our water consumption is down since we started that a coupla years ago. When we put in the second bathroom, it'll be a composting toilet. I haven't read the links yet, but I'm keen to do it myself if possible...
The Humanure toilet is a great concept. You might try it to see if you and your kids mind set can adapt to it. I know the fancy composting toilets can be pricey.
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I only poop at home on the weekends anyway, and my girlfriend is out of town this week, so I'm totally in.
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Did you mean to post this here? :)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-things-you-do-that-%27ordinary-people%27-think-are-strange/
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LOL I think I have worse things to worry about wrt my finances. Water/sewer is probably one of the lowest cost items on my budget.
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Funny topic, just hope its not used as an example of how unusual the Money Mustache community is.
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LOL I think I have worse things to worry about wrt my finances. Water/sewer is probably one of the lowest cost items on my budget.
Actually this is a pretty humor filled topic and completely open to puns. I'm sure most people would find this very low on their budget. Currently, I'm on a well and septic, so I don't even have a water bill. But when I go and retire this item may actually be number 2 on my budget. (see the humor there?).
If I retire in the city, the cost in the city I desire is $60 per month for water and sewer and appears to be going up at a rate of 7-10% a year. I plan on going very low electric usage with a super insulated and tight house with heat and electric less than %50 per month on average. If I pay the home off that would leave water at number 2 after food.
I am very interested in water conservation in this respect and have chimed in or initiated several thread on this. If I use a rain collection system and a grey water recapture system along with a humanure toilet I could have a zero water bill. This would equate to 14K less I would need in the stash and about 1/2 year less of work.
If I retire in the country, I would save about 14K off my small house construction budget by bypassing the need for a well or septic field.
So yeah, it is a small thing. But I think an indicator species on how creative and forward thinking mustachians can be.
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Did you mean to post this here? :)
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/mustachian-things-you-do-that-%27ordinary-people%27-think-are-strange/
But definitely not here: http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/colonoscopy-prep-the-mmm-way/
Yeah, we're strange. <Shrug>
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I think I can find many better ways to conserve money.
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If I retire in the country, I would save about 14K off my small house construction budget by bypassing the need for a well or septic field.
If you are buying a house outright... you can probably get away with that. If you're financing, I have a hunch you won't. I might be wrong... but I suspect they'd want a certificate of occupancy that would require both. You might even find it difficult to insure. Yes, that's kind of dumb, but I suspect it might be true.
FWIW, I am in the country and spent WAY less than that -- but I'm in an area that still has a public water supply and has very sandy soil (so it doesn't need an aerobic system).
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Fucking grim
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I only poop in the back yard when the wife isn't at home.
Otherwise I flush each and every time.... because eww, f***ing gross.
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I only poop in the back yard when the wife isn't at home.
Otherwise I flush each and every time.... because eww, f***ing gross.
I can't stop laughing about this post!!!
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My cat would get mad at me.
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I only poop in the back yard when the wife isn't at home.
Otherwise I flush each and every time.... because eww, f***ing gross.
I can't stop laughing about this post!!!
Thank you, I'll be here all week, try the veal.
Ba dum tssshhh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI)
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
Is it just me or is it slightly ironic that the guy from California is arguing for more water use?
( ;
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
Is it just me or is it slightly ironic that the guy from California is arguing for more water use?
( ;
Actually, my rent is utilities included, so water cost doesn't affect me. Oh, and after my lease is up I'm moving up, so my rent won't increase either. Makes it even harder to want to conserve. :P
Anyway, 80% of California's water usage is going to agriculture (http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-are/in-a-season-of-drought-where-does-the-water-go.html). They're the special interest, so residential is being forced to cut more since agriculture won't. That's why I mentioned residential water usage isn't such a big deal (while not non-existent, it's just not the biggest issue to focus on).
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Splash back!Ewweeeee and ickk!! I'll flush TY!
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
Is it just me or is it slightly ironic that the guy from California is arguing for more water use?
( ;
Actually, my rent is utilities included, so water cost doesn't affect me. Oh, and after my lease is up I'm moving up, so my rent won't increase either. Makes it even harder to want to conserve. :P
Anyway, 80% of California's water usage is going to agriculture (http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-are/in-a-season-of-drought-where-does-the-water-go.html). They're the special interest, so residential is being forced to cut more since agriculture won't. That's why I mentioned residential water usage isn't such a big deal (while not non-existent, it's just not the biggest issue to focus on).
I can't speak for California... but residential lawns are generally a huge portion. It still isn't toilets (assuming they're not sitting there leaking day and night.)
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In Australia, we regularly go through severe drought conditions. 'If it's yellow, let it mellow, if it's brown, flush it down' is probably not such an abnormal thing to hear over here. Our toilets are designed to use far less water than the toilets in the US and they are all dual flush, where you can choose a half flush for number 1's.
When I lived in California for three years I was absolutely shocked at the sheer waste of water I witnessed. Just another symptom of excessive consumption.
I don't save water to save money. I save water because it's the right thing to do.
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
Is it just me or is it slightly ironic that the guy from California is arguing for more water use?
( ;
Actually, my rent is utilities included, so water cost doesn't affect me. Oh, and after my lease is up I'm moving up, so my rent won't increase either. Makes it even harder to want to conserve. :P
Anyway, 80% of California's water usage is going to agriculture (http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-are/in-a-season-of-drought-where-does-the-water-go.html). They're the special interest, so residential is being forced to cut more since agriculture won't. That's why I mentioned residential water usage isn't such a big deal (while not non-existent, it's just not the biggest issue to focus on).
Yes, I'm aware of these facts. I just wanted to poke some fun! ( :
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We have friends who are building a house & have included a rainwater cistern & plumbing to supply their toilets & plants. Tap water is treated out of a nearby lake, but there's a 5 year drought that has lowered the lake to one third of capacity. When it rains, it pours, but seldom where it will do the lake much good.
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We have friends who are building a house & have included a rainwater cistern & plumbing to supply their toilets & plants. Tap water is treated out of a nearby lake, but there's a 5 year drought that has lowered the lake to one third of capacity. When it rains, it pours, but seldom where it will do the lake much good.
It seems to make a ton of sense to catch rain water, have an elevated reservoir, and use it for toilets/sprinklers/other stuff. Why don't we see more of this? I'd like to do it when I buy a house.
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I put the stopper in before i shower and flush with a bucket. Haven't personally touched the toilet handle in years.
I also use a personal towel for 'yellows', gets rinsed in the water bucket I'm about to flush with, so a roll of toilet paper has lasted over a year. Aside from actually composting my waste, I think I've got it about as low as it's gonna go - and no stinky toilet or embarrassing guest incidents.
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We let it mellow within reason. But if I let it go too long, the toilet gets nasty and much harder to clean. This means I use more chemicals to get it clean, so we try to not let it mellow more than once or twice.
I also can't stand the noise of the toilet in the middle of the night, so we just flush in the morning.
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We let it mellow within reason. But if I let it go too long, the toilet gets nasty and much harder to clean. This means I use more chemicals to get it clean, so we try to not let it mellow more than once or twice.
This has been my experience, too. The stuff that grows in the toilet after too much "mellowing" also smells nasty, even when there's nothing in the bowl but water.
Pooping at work may save on your home water bill, but it doesn't actually reduce the amount of water you use. It's (modestly) frugal, but it's not any different for the environment. Personally, I'd sacrifice a few pennies for the freedom to poop when I need to.
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Jesus Christ.....some of you are taking this MMM thing a little too far. Disgusting
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Jesus Christ.....some of you are taking this MMM a little too far. Disgusting
It's like an episode of Extreme Cheapskates.
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Does anyone here actually have a humanure system?
I'm big on composting already, but I'm pretty sure my H would wig out if I so much as suggested this. I might be able to convince him to save pee, though.
Yellow/mellow made our toilets nasty, so we gave that up.
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You can pee in your yard, in a urine diversion bucket, flower pots, off your deck if you like.
This reminds me of my childhood. I grew up on a rural 80 acres. During the summer daylight hours, I rarely used the house bathrooms. I just avoided the wild raspberry bushes (you might want a snack later). Today I live on a 6600 sq ft lot. There isn't a secluded enough location with out the neighbors calling the cops. Ah, the experiences my kids miss out on by living in town (that and they're girls).
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You can pee in your yard, in a urine diversion bucket, flower pots, off your deck if you like.
This reminds me of my childhood. I grew up on a rural 80 acres. During the summer daylight hours, I rarely used the house bathrooms. I just avoided the wild raspberry bushes (you might want a snack later). Today I live on a 6600 sq ft lot. There isn't a secluded enough location with out the neighbors calling the cops. Ah, the experiences my kids miss out on by living in town (that and they're girls).
You're right, they are missing out with the lack of nature around them. BTW girls can pee outside too :)
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You can pee in your yard, in a urine diversion bucket, flower pots, off your deck if you like.
This reminds me of my childhood. I grew up on a rural 80 acres. During the summer daylight hours, I rarely used the house bathrooms. I just avoided the wild raspberry bushes (you might want a snack later). Today I live on a 6600 sq ft lot. There isn't a secluded enough location with out the neighbors calling the cops. Ah, the experiences my kids miss out on by living in town (that and they're girls).
You're right, they are missing out with the lack of nature around them. BTW girls can pee outside too :)
Absolutely, but peeing on feet is a much more likely occupational hazard for us. Or, most likely, the side of one sock...
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Songs of the Bathroom, Volume One.
I tried to let it mellow.
Until I met a fellow.
The habit made me blush.
So now I always flush.
Conservation is groovy.
But marriage is my duty.
duty. doody.
I always do my duty.
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Jesus Christ.....some of you are taking this MMM a little too far. Disgusting
It's like an episode of Extreme Cheapskates.
. Perhaps you might reread mmm's post regarding driving cross country in the summer misting himself with a water bottle instead of using the AC. These exercises in redefining our behavior change our central character and challenge our comfort zones and perceptions of who and more importantly "why" we are. My guess is that mmm is a back porch pee man himself. We flush a trillion gallons of fresh treated water per year down the drain in the US. That is not a small number.
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Jesus Christ.....some of you are taking this MMM a little too far. Disgusting
It's like an episode of Extreme Cheapskates.
. Perhaps you might reread mmm's post regarding driving cross country in the summer misting himself with a water bottle instead of using the AC. These exercises in redefining our behavior change our central character and challenge our comfort zones and perceptions of who and more importantly "why" we are. My guess is that mmm is a back porch pee man himself. We flush a trillion gallons of fresh treated water per year down the drain in the US. That is not a small number.
This article on NPR about Wichita Falls' dilemma is relevant. Seems to me I'd rather waste less water than drink this (oh I know, they're saying it's been cleaned. But still...). Clean water is not endless.
http://www.npr.org/2014/05/06/309101579/drought-stricken-texas-town-turns-to-toilets-for-water (http://www.npr.org/2014/05/06/309101579/drought-stricken-texas-town-turns-to-toilets-for-water)
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I make very liberal use of the toilet and my water bill is a whopping ~$1 per month. I hope I can write that off as trivial without being punched in the face.
. No face punch. 1$ a month sounds way cheap. Mine is actually zero with my well and septic. Although, I do have 14k in infrastructure that equates to about $100 a month in lost income.
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We have friends who are building a house & have included a rainwater cistern & plumbing to supply their toilets & plants. Tap water is treated out of a nearby lake, but there's a 5 year drought that has lowered the lake to one third of capacity. When it rains, it pours, but seldom where it will do the lake much good.
It seems to make a ton of sense to catch rain water, have an elevated reservoir, and use it for toilets/sprinklers/other stuff. Why don't we see more of this? I'd like to do it when I buy a house.
I am always surprised that this is not a building requirement in arid areas - we have so many stupid building rules why not put in a rule that actually made sense. I would also include all lighting to be 12v and run on a separate system on solar panels..
As to the pee.
A while back I wanted to play with aquaponics - and a good way to start is something called peeponics - which entailed peeing into gallon bottles and leaving them for a bit. So have 5 gallon bottles of pee sitting in my garage - normal in a cupboard, but because doing some serious changing around in the garage they where sitting on top of a bench when my neighbour pops around for a visit last week.
He, of course, asked what they where. I almost replied "cider" - but could just see him asking for a taste so changed it as the last second and said "industrial vinegar" - err, usefull for cleaning stuff was the best I could come up with.
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I would abide by the "If it's yellow" rule, but it just smells too rank and the toilet bowl gets really nasty, requiring extra cleaning. Creating more toilet-scrubbing opportunities for myself is hardly frugal.
But since the hot water tank is in the basement, and it takes ages to get hot water to the second-floor bathroom on the other side of the house, I catch cold water in buckets whenever I take a shower. I then use it to flush the toilet.
I don't have to do it; there is no cost savings because I never exceed the water usage covered by the base rate, and we have no drought or water shortages here. But letting perfectly clean, safe, treated water go to waste when I don't have to really bothers me for some reason. I never water my lawn for the same reason; it just strikes me as an incredibly wasteful thing to do.
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When I give friends a glowing recommendation of this forum (which, I actually doo all the time)... this is the post I'm going to link them to.
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For the sake of cleanliness, if you just want to save water wouldn't it make more sense to pee in the sink? Then you don't have a large vat of urine just sitting around at least, and when you wash your hands afterwards you're getting rid of the majority of the urine.
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For the sake of cleanliness, if you just want to save water wouldn't it make more sense to pee in the sink? Then you don't have a large vat of urine just sitting around at least, and when you wash your hands afterwards you're getting rid of the majority of the urine.
Or the shower? Nobody does that. Ever.
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If you live in a cold climate it works pretty well to pee in a 5 gallon bucket on your front porch. When the bucket is full (of yellow ice) bring it inside for a day to melt, then flush it. I know a friend in Fairbanks who does this. His wife doesn't like it when the bucket enters the house.
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For all of you either mocking Mr. Werner or declaring this post as somehow over the line, can you state where you live? I really hope it's somewhere with adequate rainfall and not, say, the Southwest or many parts of California.
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If you live in a cold climate it works pretty well to pee in a 5 gallon bucket on your front porch. When the bucket is full (of yellow ice) bring it inside for a day to melt, then flush it. I know a friend in Fairbanks who does this. His wife doesn't like it when the bucket enters the house.
A five gallon bucket of iced urine.... in the house....... melting for 24 hours....
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For all of you either mocking Mr. Werner or declaring this post as somehow over the line, can you state where you live? I really hope it's somewhere with adequate rainfall and not, say, the Southwest or many parts of California.
While it takes energy to run these things, with sewage treatment facilities down-stream you're not wasting useable water by flushing the toilet.
(http://netsolwater.com/image/STPAMAR4.jpg)
I can't imagine that taking these extreme measures would save me more than $10 a month.
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You can pee in your yard, in a urine diversion bucket, flower pots, off your deck if you like.
This reminds me of my childhood. I grew up on a rural 80 acres. During the summer daylight hours, I rarely used the house bathrooms. I just avoided the wild raspberry bushes (you might want a snack later). Today I live on a 6600 sq ft lot. There isn't a secluded enough location with out the neighbors calling the cops. Ah, the experiences my kids miss out on by living in town (that and they're girls).
You're right, they are missing out with the lack of nature around them. BTW girls can pee outside too :)
Absolutely, but peeing on feet is a much more likely occupational hazard for us. Or, most likely, the side of one sock...
As a woman who has peed outside plenty (yes sometimes even in my privacy-fenced backyard when my bf is taking FOREVER in the bathroom and I have to pee really bad!!), I find that splatter is a bigger issue than aim :)
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Also, while I personally am not really interested in letting it mellow to save water (although I do wish we had one of those dual flush toilets someone mentioned upthread... I saw them everywhere in NZ and was so jeal!!), I think it's funny that some people are SOOOOOOOOOO grossed out and/or offended! What are you, 8? I think it's a humorous topic and not a bad idea, I just don't care enough to do it myself.
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For the sake of cleanliness, if you just want to save water wouldn't it make more sense to pee in the sink? Then you don't have a large vat of urine just sitting around at least, and when you wash your hands afterwards you're getting rid of the majority of the urine.
Or the shower? Nobody does that. Ever.
I considered the shower, but think it would be less ideal. You always wash your hands in the sink after going to the bathroom, but don't always take a shower.
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Here's a question...
To those who use these techniques to save water at the toilet... when you shower do you stand under the head as you turn on the faucet to be sure that you use every last drop of water or do you let the cold water in the pipes run down the drain until the warm water comes out?
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Pooping at work may save on your home water bill, but it doesn't actually reduce the amount of water you use. It's (modestly) frugal, but it's not any different for the environment. Personally, I'd sacrifice a few pennies for the freedom to poop when I need to.
Part of it is also the satisfaction that my employer is paying me to poop. Although, I'm salary now, so that's less true than in the past.
And I pretty much poop the same time each day (unless I eat a bunch of cheap Chinese food), so it's just a matter of programming that into a time during the work day, such as 9am. It's at the same time on the weekends, just not at work.
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Here's a question...
To those who use these techniques to save water at the toilet... when you shower do you stand under the head as you turn on the faucet to be sure that you use every last drop of water or do you let the cold water in the pipes run down the drain until the warm water comes out?
Good try, but this is not an apples to apples comparison. Considering I only shower every 2-3 days, I stand to save a lot more water not flushing every time I pee. People are very laissez faire about how much water it takes to flush toilets in this country, but toilets are the largest use of domestic water. Here's a breakdown from the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/pubs/indoor.html. Toilet flushing is over 25% of your water use.
I don't understand why in Phoenix and other desert climates it is not mandated that new houses have grey water systems. I once saw this nifty contraption in an environmental house that diverted sink and shower water to the toilet. I would save my shower and tub water, but I have young kids and it's a safety hazard to leave water in the tub.
When I was pregnant, I let it mellow all the time. But I was also going to the bathroom every 30 or so minutes.
As an aside, my boys take water conservation to the extreme. They don't flush sometimes when they poop, but I'm guessing that's absentmindedness in a four year old than a well thought out plan to help the planet. :)
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For all of you either mocking Mr. Werner or declaring this post as somehow over the line, can you state where you live? I really hope it's somewhere with adequate rainfall and not, say, the Southwest or many parts of California.
While it takes energy to run these things, with sewage treatment facilities down-stream you're not wasting useable water by flushing the toilet.
(http://netsolwater.com/image/STPAMAR4.jpg)
I can't imagine that taking these extreme measures would save me more than $10 a month.
I wouldn't say that water conservation is "extreme." Many people reading this thread are spending $100 per month on water and sewer and many live in drought areas. After my house, my water system (well and septic) is the most expensive thing I own and it may well be my number 2 budget item if I move to the city. This shit ain't free.
A decent Mustachian will find that their water bill will eventually be in the top 10 of their regular expenses. So it seems worthwhile to put at least some thought into it.
________________________________________________________________________________
My goal is to eventually have a home with as close to zero water cost as possible. I will accomplish this with a multi point approach.
1. Thoughtful and conscious use of water throughout the home. (less than 300 gallons per person per month)
2. Collection of rain water. (it rains a lot in Missouri and this will feed into the drinking water taps)
3. Filtering and reuse of grey water. (pretty much everything other than toilet water can easily be reused with a bit of filtering and some ultraviolet light treatment)
4. On-site treatment of black water either through an aquatic pond or the use of humanure or composting toilets. (reducing this to 1 gallon per day per person may be the goal)
5. Separate plumbing systems for grey, black and drinking water.
The construction costs of the system will be greatly reduced by significantly reducing usage. With the hope of building a system with a 3 year pay back or less. I'm guestimating that I could design and DYI a whole house system for less that 2K.
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Good try, but this is not an apples to apples comparison. Considering I only shower every 2-3 days, I stand to save a lot more water not flushing every time I pee. People are very laissez faire about how much water it takes to flush toilets in this country, but toilets are the largest use of domestic water. Here's a breakdown from the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/pubs/indoor.html. Toilet flushing is over 25% of your water use.
Not apples to apples?
They're both methods for saving money by conserving water. That's about as close of a comparison as you can possibly get.
Where I live I don't have the luxury of being able to shower only every 2-3 days. It's humid, hot, and nasty here almost year round. I need to shower every single day. So in my environment it is a valid question, even if the impact of that technique would be less for you.
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Good try, but this is not an apples to apples comparison. Considering I only shower every 2-3 days, I stand to save a lot more water not flushing every time I pee. People are very laissez faire about how much water it takes to flush toilets in this country, but toilets are the largest use of domestic water. Here's a breakdown from the EPA: http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/pubs/indoor.html. Toilet flushing is over 25% of your water use.
Not apples to apples?
They're both methods for saving money by conserving water. That's about as close of a comparison as you can possibly get.
Where I live I don't have the luxury of being able to shower only every 2-3 days. It's humid, hot, and nasty here almost year round. I need to shower every single day. So in my environment it is a valid question, even if the impact of that technique would be less for you.
It's not apples to apples, because you presumably don't shower 6 times a day like you flush the toilet.
I wouldn't describe not showering as a luxury. In fact, it's funny to me that you would even describe it as such. It's a conscious choice, and I live in a place that is wickedly hot and humid for 5 months of the year. Presumably in this hot climate you are spending most of your time in an air conditioned car or building? If not, then shower daily. But otherwise, I would encourage you to challenge your assumptions regarding daily bathing. MMM has said that even when he bikes 10 miles he doesn't always shower.
Age might play a part too. I got stinkier faster in my twenties, but now that I am closer to 40 than 30, my skin is dry and can't handle the daily shower.
I'm overall irked by the responses to this thread. You don't have to take his challenge, but it's rude and off base to treat the original poster as extreme or beyond the pale. I know plenty of people who let it mellow, even non-frugal people.
**Edited to add that you stand to save much more money by not showering every day, because then we're talking about less hot water used plus less shampoo and soap.
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It's not apples to apples, because you presumably don't shower 6 times a day like you flush the toilet.
I wouldn't describe not showering as a luxury. In fact, it's funny to me that you would even describe it as such. It's a conscious choice, and I live in a place that is wickedly hot and humid for 5 months of the year. Presumably in this hot climate you are spending most of your time in an air conditioned car or building? If not, then shower daily. But otherwise, I would encourage you to challenge your assumptions regarding daily bathing. MMM has said that even when he bikes 10 miles he doesn't always shower.
Age might play a part too. I got stinkier faster in my twenties, but now that I am closer to 40 than 30, my skin is dry and can't handle the daily shower.
I'm overall irked by the responses to this thread. You don't have to take his challenge, but it's rude and off base to treat the original poster as extreme or beyond the pale. I know plenty of people who let it mellow, even non-frugal people.
**Edited to add that you stand to save much more money by not showering every day, because then we're talking about less hot water used plus less shampoo and soap.
First of all, just because one method saves more than another doesn't mean that it isn't a valid comparison.
Second, I did not insist that showering is a luxury, I described it as a need. It is a need for hygienic reasons, and I do not need to justify where I spend the majority of my time to insist upon that. If I'm outside for only five minutes and I've become sweaty and coated with allergens, then at some point in that day I'll need a shower. Maybe your environment is different, and that's great. But we don't all live where you live.
I did not intend for the thread to go off on a violent tangent, for that I apologize. The question was intended to get a measure of how far people were going with the water conservation thing, not to piss you off (zing). But I'm not going to apologize for thinking that letting urine and feces hang out in your house is gross, because I think it is; you don't have to agree.
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But I'm not going to apologize for thinking that letting urine and feces hang out in your house is gross, because I think it is; you don't have to agree.
Do you have a cat? ;)
(this is actually one of the reasons I probably won't ever have a cat, other than preferring dogs and the fact that one of our current dogs views cats as snacks rather than fellow house residents)
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For the record, the only feces that "hang out" in my house are the cat's in the basement and the baby's in the diaper double bagged in the trash can (or directly in the outside can if it's super stinky). My kids might not flush the toilet when they poop sometimes, but an adult will do it as soon as we notice it.
You have a misconception about where I live. It's horribly hot and humid all summer long and we have terrible allergens. Shower every day. I could care less what you do, but don't say that other people are able to do it every other day just because they live in some magical temperature controlled location where they don't sweat and there's no heat or humidity. I don't like the term "complainypants", but isn't that the heart of the term, i.e. dismissing people's experiences as different from yours and creating all these excuses why something won't work for you that clearly works for others? Shower every day with pride, because you want to and you enjoy it - not because your environment dictates that you have to. Grant that it's a choice and not a mandate.
Editing to reiterate that you said "not showering every day" is a luxury, which is pretty funny, you gotta admit :).
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Do you have a cat? ;)
(this is actually one of the reasons I probably won't ever have a cat, other than preferring dogs and the fact that one of our current dogs views cats as snacks rather than fellow house residents)
That's a fair point and without going further off the rails with details on how that is handled, it can be done so in a sanitary way.
Also, clearly I'm in the "ewww, gross" crowd, but I think we also need to recognize that there are degrees here. Flushing when you pee only every other time, or every third time isn't really gross. The "ewww, gross" mostly comes in when you take that to some of the extremes others in the thread have outlined; like peeing in a bucket outside and letting it freeze, only bringing it in to thaw when it's full; that's where the "ewww, gross" thing comes into play.
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Here's a question...
To those who use these techniques to save water at the toilet... when you shower do you stand under the head as you turn on the faucet to be sure that you use every last drop of water or do you let the cold water in the pipes run down the drain until the warm water comes out?
I fill the humidifier and water pick. In the kitchen, I fill the Brita.
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Thanks for some very interesting replys on this thread. I've never really noticed a yellow mellow problem so I'll have to try this and see.
Loved learning about the urine diverting toilets. That will definitely be under consideration for future projects.
I seem to like the stand up urinals in public bathrooms for men. I realize there is the splash factor but I will consider one of these for my small house dream home as well. Perhaps I'll place it outside next to my summer solar heated shower. I'm having dreams right now of having an entire summer bath room set up out doors as we entertain a lot outdoors in the summer.
I see it as a covered and privacy shielded (perhaps shrubs?) out side bathroom complete with tiled floor, sit down and stand up toilet, sink and solar shower. How cool would that be!? Maybe even solar heat the floor. I do love showering and toileting outdoors. Perhaps I have camped a few too many days in my life? lol
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I considered the shower, but think it would be less ideal. You always wash your hands in the sink after going to the bathroom, but don't always take a shower.
Ha! Reminds me of the George Carlin bit (6 minutes).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnmMNdiCz_s
The whole bit is one of my favorites, but the super relevant part would be at 4:50.
Ahh, I miss George.
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In other toilet news, my husband was just telling me about the "squatty potty," a stool that helps you get into the optimum position for pooping. It's a little expensive at $25, but word on the street (or on the commode) is that this device dramatically reduces the amount of toilet paper you need. I imagine one could make the initial cost back pretty quickly. I'm a little afraid to watch the demo video at Bed Bath and Beyond's website, though.
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/squatty-potty-toilet-stool/3250796
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Bob - As a fellow Missouri resident, I imagine you use at least some A/C in the summer? You are pretty badass, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if you go without it. If not, one thing we did was set up a rain barrel underneath our condensation tube on the side of our house. On a really hot and humid day, we get tons of water. We use that to water our plants, although the water is clean enough that it could probably be used for toilet flushing as well.
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Here's a question...
To those who use these techniques to save water at the toilet... when you shower do you stand under the head as you turn on the faucet to be sure that you use every last drop of water or do you let the cold water in the pipes run down the drain until the warm water comes out?
We catch the cold water in a bucket and use it to flush the toilet, water the plants, etc. The cat also likes to drink out of it. (More grossness? ;)
Pooping at work may save on your home water bill, but it doesn't actually reduce the amount of water you use. It's (modestly) frugal, but it's not any different for the environment. Personally, I'd sacrifice a few pennies for the freedom to poop when I need to.
Part of it is also the satisfaction that my employer is paying me to poop.
I get that. :)
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Here's a question...
To those who use these techniques to save water at the toilet... when you shower do you stand under the head as you turn on the faucet to be sure that you use every last drop of water or do you let the cold water in the pipes run down the drain until the warm water comes out?
We catch the cold water in a bucket and use it to flush the toilet, water the plants, etc. The cat also likes to drink out of it. (More grossness? ;)
Okay that's awesome.... not something I had thought of.
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Bob - As a fellow Missouri resident, I imagine you use at least some A/C in the summer? You are pretty badass, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if you go without it. If not, one thing we did was set up a rain barrel underneath our condensation tube on the side of our house. On a really hot and humid day, we get tons of water. We use that to water our plants, although the water is clean enough that it could probably be used for toilet flushing as well.
I'm more badass in my mind than reality. We do use our AC, although a few years ago when it was 6 weeks of 100+ days we did not have either home or car AC. It is like MMM detailed on adapting to the weather. We adapted pretty nicely. We moved from the upper master bedroom to a lower room and used two fans at night. We never did get to the point of moving to the basement.
Regarding the AC condenser ---- we have a geothermal unit that does not have an external condenser unit. I run the humidifier in the basement during the summer and I'm sure I could get enough for 2 flushes per day off that.
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In other toilet news, my husband was just telling me about the "squatty potty," a stool that helps you get into the optimum position for pooping. It's a little expensive at $25, but word on the street (or on the commode) is that this device dramatically reduces the amount of toilet paper you need. I imagine one could make the initial cost back pretty quickly. I'm a little afraid to watch the demo video at Bed Bath and Beyond's website, though.
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/squatty-potty-toilet-stool/3250796
Pretty much any stool serves the same function no? Basically the concept is that the taller the toilet, the straighter your legs are. The straighter your legs are when you poop, the more of an angle your colon is at. The more of an angle your colon is at the harder you have to push . . . this is why hemorrhoids are such a problem in western countries. It's probably going to get worse in the future since taller toilets appear to be en vogue in the hardware store.
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Pretty much any stool serves the same function no? Basically the concept is that the taller the toilet, the straighter your legs are. The straighter your legs are when you poop, the more of an angle your colon is at. The more of an angle your colon is at the harder you have to push . . . this is why hemorrhoids are such a problem in western countries. It's probably going to get worse in the future since taller toilets appear to be en vogue in the hardware store.
You had me confused at first, since in my neck of the woods "stool" is a colloquial term for the toilet, but yes, I guess a stool would do as well, although I imagine you might need two stools to replicate the squatty potty.
ADA (Americans with Disability Act) toilets are indeed en vogue at the moment. I have to admit we put one into our new bathroom two years ago. My husband is tall and we were anticipating our older age when getting up from the toilet might be harder. Interesting point about hemorrhoids in the Western world.
How about we all just adopt the Chinese toilet? It might take some getting used to, but hemorrhoids and my toilet paper budget now that two of my kids are potty trained are no joke.
(http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6701/1263/1600/DSC002551.JPG)
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Toilet water usage is a very minor issue in overall water consumption, and I think we can agree to use a a couple liters of extra water a day if it means more sanitary conditions.
Is it just me or is it slightly ironic that the guy from California is arguing for more water use?
( ;
Actually, my rent is utilities included, so water cost doesn't affect me. Oh, and after my lease is up I'm moving up, so my rent won't increase either. Makes it even harder to want to conserve. :P
Anyway, 80% of California's water usage is going to agriculture (http://www.kcet.org/updaily/socal_focus/commentary/where-we-are/in-a-season-of-drought-where-does-the-water-go.html). They're the special interest, so residential is being forced to cut more since agriculture won't. That's why I mentioned residential water usage isn't such a big deal (while not non-existent, it's just not the biggest issue to focus on).
"special interest"? pretty sure its in everyone's interest that CA continues to produce food…. and they absolutely are cutting their use.
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If that is the case, you may save well over $100 in toilet paper alone.
OK... I'll say it. This is a joke right? Who spends this much on TP?
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Goddamn it-this is why I don't tell anybody I'm on the MMM forums.
I tell 'em how great it is to save money and ride your bike, and when they actually check it out it's nothing but re-usable toilet paper and wack-job challenges like this one.
Gonna flush mine twice tonight.
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After the toilet goes you just start shitting in the sink.
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Just stop eating. No eating means your grocery bill will drop, you'll lose weight, and no more poop!
If you need calories, limit yourself to home-made halfka (http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/homemade-vodka-easy-4-cents-a-drink/)
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For the sake of cleanliness, if you just want to save water wouldn't it make more sense to pee in the sink? Then you don't have a large vat of urine just sitting around at least, and when you wash your hands afterwards you're getting rid of the majority of the urine.
Ha! Good one. Tell ya what- I started cutting up old clean t-shirts that were in my donation pile about six weeks ago and got my three daughters to wipe with our homemade toilet cloths instead of TP. this allows us to let it mellow a lot longer without paper in the bowl. I try never to flush during the day, but usually my last pee before bed gets flushed to avoid the smell and staining.
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Some random thoughts/points:
- Using a bucket to catch shower water to then flush is a sort of manual gray water system. I'd like a house with a real gray water and rainwater system for flushing.
- I wonder if, in winter, there's a measurable cost to bringing cold water into your house and essentially heating it and then flushing it.
- In addition to dual flush toilets (getting common in Canada now) Japanese houses usually have a sink integrated into the top of the tank so the water that eventually flows into the tank can be used to wash your hands first.
- Work toilets are usually use way more water than home toilets so saving it for work might help you but overall uses considerably more water.
- Water in the city where I live isn't even metered. The meter and billing infrastructure would take a long time to pay off, so there's a trajedy of the commons effect, yet I try to minimize my use, although not as much as I would if I could save money.
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I find some of the responses here disconcerting. Money is not the #1 goal in all decisions. Most people are here because they decided to take an active look a their life. Inevitably, that often involves downsizing which in turn likely has a positive effect on the environment (whether intended or not). This is just further experimentation/extention of that. Open your minds people. Educate yourself about something like humanure. Who knows, you may be using it one day.
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We have friends who are building a house & have included a rainwater cistern & plumbing to supply their toilets & plants. Tap water is treated out of a nearby lake, but there's a 5 year drought that has lowered the lake to one third of capacity. When it rains, it pours, but seldom where it will do the lake much good.
It seems to make a ton of sense to catch rain water, have an elevated reservoir, and use it for toilets/sprinklers/other stuff. Why don't we see more of this? I'd like to do it when I buy a house.
I am always surprised that this is not a building requirement in arid areas - we have so many stupid building rules why not put in a rule that actually made sense. I would also include all lighting to be 12v and run on a separate system on solar panels..
Any new builds in my state in Australia (and similar regs in other states) require either a rainwater tank for toilet flushing or solar panels for your hot water service to get the mandated minimum 6-star energy rating. Unfortunately you don't get extra credit for having both so we went with the rainwater tank as we'll be getting a full solar system in a couple of years and the ones that power your hot water only are notorious for failing.
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Any new builds in my state in Australia (and similar regs in other states) require either a rainwater tank for toilet flushing or solar panels for your hot water service to get the mandated minimum 6-star energy rating. Unfortunately you don't get extra credit for having both so we went with the rainwater tank as we'll be getting a full solar system in a couple of years and the ones that power your hot water only are notorious for failing.
I wish our municipalities were this forward thinking, but alas, it would just be construed as one more example of the "government trying to control me." Considering how people reacted to the end of incandescent lights, I can't imagine public support would be high.
Since I know water is a scarce resource in many areas of Australia, have your municipalities looked into trapping all the rainwater that runs into the sewer? I remember hearing a report on how much potable water that could bring cities. Plus it would put less of a strain on our old sewer lines. There are so many innovative things that could be done. Desalination is of course one of the big ones for coastal regions, but it seems to be a dramatic change to implement when we aren't already doing commonsense measures like you outline above. Humanure toilets also make a ton of sense.
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I'm surprised and happy with the amount and variety input on this thread so far. Please keep the ideas coming. It is interesting having the Australian point of view as well as other international perspectives. Thank you for that photo of the Chinese toilet. For areas of the US that are currently having the worst drought in decades, water conservation is a real need.
Some of us find this discussion rather humorous and that is fine. Keep the jokes coming! We can still learn lots while having a good time.
Here are some random thoughts --
Hopefully Mustachians are leaders by example, so for example if every person in the developed world used 3 less gallons of water per day that equates to something like 3 trillion gallons per year. That is not a small amount of water. Water is a precious resource.
Personally, as a mustachian, water usage is a low hanging fruit and significantly reducing use is generally a matter of behavior choices. There are readers here who use as little as 300 gallons per month and readers that use over 5000 gallons.
In my case reducing water usage will not reduce my bill as I am on a well and septic set up, but many readers are on city water. I can imagine that for the advanced mustachian who has a paid off house that their water bill may well be in their top 5 fixed expenses.
The rate of inflation in the cost of water and sewer service appears to be in the above 7% range so it is difficult to offset this with investments.
In my state of Missouri over 100,000 gallons per year falls from the skies on the average size home lot. So it really makes no engineering sense to me that water needs to be piped in from miles away?
It also makes no sense to me that an organic natural fertilizer is flushed into our streams when it could be used to enhance our local home environment with a few minor behavior and thought adjustments. Don't knock the humanure toilet system until you try it.
One very popular fertilizer, Milorganite, is produced from the waste water treatment plant in Milwaukie
http://www.milorganite.com/FAQ