How Long Before Bailing on a New Job?

[Incandenza]

This is mostly a vent.  I need to give my wife and friends a break from work complaints, and I find writing helpful to gather my thoughts.  If anyone has been in a similar situation, it'd be great to hear about how you handled it. 

Me: 38, lawyer, father of three.  I recently worked for several years in a job that was interesting and good in many ways--I got to try cases, had autonomy to handle my own cases, and loved my colleagues--but towards the end I felt like I had learned what I could and wanted to try something new.  

A seemingly ideal job appeared--within biking distance, doing public interest minded work in an interesting area of the law, along with a 10% raise over my prior job.  Interesting and good legal jobs can be hard to find, so I set my sights on this one and eventually convinced them to hire me.

I started last year.  And so far, it fucking sucks.  It's not the subject matter of the work, which is good.  I feel great about what I'm doing, or trying to do.  The problem is the bureaucracy of management. 

EVERYTHING is reviewed by two people in charge.  The work needs to be done in a very specific way, but that very specific way changes unpredictably, so you're left chasing arbitrary standards, rather than just doing the work.  

Everything is done and redone.  Small details are changed.  Typos are inserted in reviews.  Then someone decides we need to start over. 

It's the opposite of what works for my personality.  Things could be a little chaotic and frustrating in their own way at my old job, but we got things done, and it felt good.   

As for the financials, we've got about $450,000 in investment accounts, depending on the day. My wife works (and loves her job) and her income is roughly 80% of our spending.

I like the idea of being financially independent but it's more important to me to find a job that is satisfying and where I can feel good about my work.  

I'm curious for those in similar positions--how long did you stick it out?  My initial thinking was I had to get to two years (about 13 months from now).  I could bank some experience in an interesting subject area--experience that could lead to the next thing--and it wouldn't stick out on my resume.  But I'm seriously considering whether I should take a break from work for a time, or go back from where I came, or just begin the whole job search again now.

[joe189man]

I think it depends on how big your city is and what the job prospects are. if the city is huge with lots of demand for lawyers with your skill set, you should be fine. in a smaller town with a tighter community it may be more difficult.

my wife hired one guy back after 2 months away at another accounting firm (we are in a top 20 metro area of the usa, so job market is tight for anyone with some skills).

i think 13 months is plenty of time to try something out and a short tenure can be explained away in an interview

[TomTX]

Look for a better job now. Having a single short-term job after a long-term job doesn't look bad. Just have an acceptable answer at the ready when asked why your stay was short. Perhaps "stylistic differences" or even "micromanagement" if you get understanding vibes off the interviewer. You don't want to be too critical of a current/former employer.

[bbqbonelesswing]

If you can get another job lined up, bail ASAP. At 38, I'm sure you have had some longer stints. A single bad fit can be explained away. No sense making yourself miserable and sticking it out.

[KBCB]

1. If you are able to go back to your old employer and you could see yourself working until you can retire or go part time and enjoy the work i would do this right away!
2. If you want to look for different opportunities that this new job could open up in the future I would stick it out and try to just get through another year.
3. If you are so miserable and are undecided you might be able to quit and take time off. Mental health is no joke and if this is what you need to do i would do it. Sure it's easier to find a job when employed but it's not impossible.

I know what it's like to work with crazy rules and circumstances. I was extremely annoyed over parts of my job, enough to make me look elsewhere. After a job offer a while ago it really forced me to evaluate and realized that although my job has some definite issues overall it's a good place to work to help me reach my goals.

[Much Fishing to Do]

I think a short stint at a job only really gets noticed if its the last job.  If you find a new job before bailing, then it will likely never be an issue.

So definitely lock in the next thing before bailing on this one, but start looking today.  If you look with your hair on fire (like most people only tend to do when they are unemployed) I doubt it'll take long.

[YttriumNitrate]

I managed to stay about 18 months at a legal job I couldn't stand. The last few months, my drive home involved lots of frustration screaming. Don't do what I did. Start looking now and leave as soon as you find a new position.

[Frankies Girl]

Job hopping (within reason) is no longer considered terrible on a resume (source:I read SO MUCH Ask A Manager) As long as you're not jumping every month to a new place, a 1 year stint someplace isn't going to be seen as a negative. It actually looks like you went to someplace and gave it a fair chance if you lasted that long.

Have you talked to whomever is in charge about how frustrating the process is for you and asked for changes? If you haven't, it may be worth the conversation. I would not bring in the whole "I may be leaving ASAP if this doesn't change" thing, but it couldn't hurt to ask if things could be improved for you.

If you hate it, you've stuck it out for a year already and you've tried to address the things that make the job awful with no results - find something else or even see if you can go back to the previous job if you can. 1 year is PLENTY of time to get unique experience and look like a nice addition on your job history and will not look like a problem.

If you have possibilities of finding another better-suited position, there is absolutely no reason to torture yourself any longer.

[soccerluvof4]

I would agree with the others that if your not happy which you greatly expressed the time to look is now. I dont think you will have any problem explaining away one short term job. In the end it just wasn't what you expected and that is ok.

[martyconlonontherun]

I think a short stint at a job only really gets noticed if its the last job.  If you find a new job before bailing, then it will likely never be an issue.

So definitely lock in the next thing before bailing on this one, but start looking today.  If you look with your hair on fire (like most people only tend to do when they are unemployed) I doubt it'll take long.

That and it's a mulligan. You can go for the pin if you have a mulligan in your pocket, but play it safe on the next swing. Need to make sure the next job is where you want to be for 3-4 years min.

[Incandenza]

1. If you are able to go back to your old employer and you could see yourself working until you can retire or go part time and enjoy the work i would do this right away!

I can see myself being generally content there, if a bit bored.  I always thought of that job as being in neutral.  I wasn't miserable, but I wasn't exactly where I wanted to be.  Working with my friends, having flexible hours, and being able to handle my cases as I saw fit was a big deal--so many lawyers are unhappy.  But I left because I wanted to go learn something new and get into a more public minded role, and I'd still like to do that if I could.

One option would be to go back and really devote myself to pro-bono work, which would help me feel better and potentially keep me positioned for work in the public interest world. 

In terms of looking for other jobs right now, many of the truly interesting ones would involve a large pay-cut--somewhere around 35k.  My current job is a really unique one where you get paid 6 figures to do public-interest work.  That's why I was excited about it and why I'm so dispirited now.

Have you talked to whomever is in charge about how frustrating the process is for you and asked for changes?

My immediate boss is a reasonable person and started at the same time as me. We get on well. She's diplomatic about it but it's clear she's also frustrated--maybe more so because she's 15 years older than me and also not used to being micro-managed in this way.  I'm curious to see if she lasts.  Lawyers, especially successful* ones, tend to be thick skinned to this stuff so she might just try to wait it out.

But we can't change it.  It's ingrained at top management and won't change until they retire or die at their desks. 

*Success in law often, although not always, comes with misery.  The bosses of which I complain are actually decent people, they're just constantly stressed out and miserable. 

[Plina]

I was 9,5 months at my previous job and got a package to leave because my boss and I was in agreement that we don’t want to continue working together. I mentioned to an acquitance during a lunch that I was leaving because the work was not for me. Her firm was hiring and a digital meeting later I was hired before I left my previous job. I was a bit more honest about my reason to leave to my new boss without going in to details but basically it was no big deal for her. Because I left so fast and after such a short time basically everybody realises something has happened but only some of my closer friends know the reason.

Start looking among your contacts and give some reason why it was not a good fit. It is not a big deal to realise a place is not a good fit. It is actually seen as a positive sign to fix the bad fit instead of being miserable. If it would have been needed I could have come up with several good references and I guess you can also do that.

[The 585]

One time I gave two-weeks notice at a job I only worked at for a month. Yes they were shocked, but completely supportive. I went back to my previous employer who was also very understanding and supportive. The job was nothing what I expected and I wasn't happy there.

[KBCB]

1. If you are able to go back to your old employer and you could see yourself working until you can retire or go part time and enjoy the work i would do this right away!

I can see myself being generally content there, if a bit bored.  I always thought of that job as being in neutral.  I wasn't miserable, but I wasn't exactly where I wanted to be.  Working with my friends, having flexible hours, and being able to handle my cases as I saw fit was a big deal--so many lawyers are unhappy.  But I left because I wanted to go learn something new and get into a more public minded role, and I'd still like to do that if I could.

One option would be to go back and really devote myself to pro-bono work, which would help me feel better and potentially keep me positioned for work in the public interest world. 

In terms of looking for other jobs right now, many of the truly interesting ones would involve a large pay-cut--somewhere around 35k.  My current job is a really unique one where you get paid 6 figures to do public-interest work.  That's why I was excited about it and why I'm so dispirited now.

By what you said here I double down on going back to the old employer. If you could even devote time outside of work doing pro-bono or work that gives you joy that sounds like a good compromise. It also doesn't mean you wont find the job that has more of what you are looking for in the future.

I looked past it the first time I read the post but the fact that your 2nd sentence was I am posting to give my friends and family a break from complaining. I have and still do deal with really unhappy friends/family about their jobs and it is tough to listen to constantly. I am not saying being able to vent is a bad thing, it just depends on how frequent and how long the venting sessions are. I would honestly open up to your wife/friends about your struggles and instead of coming from a negative point of view about the current job you can take this as an opportunity to discuss your life/career goals. It seems as if you already are figuring out better options and things you can do which is awesome.

I really wish you all the luck!

[Calimerostache]

Interesting topic. Got a book recommendation today on that topic.
The dip by Seth Godin. I ve not read it yet but heard good thing about it.
Maybe some interesting content in there to help you make an educated decision

[Joel]

Get out. It’s not worth sucking it up and putting another 13 months in. Live is too short.

[NorthernMonkey]

Get the hell out of there. Why are you waiting?

Start looking for a new role now. It'll give you some focus and stop you going insane. Really consider going back to your old role, but if you do, you need to rough it out for a couple of years.

[Moonwaves]

I had one job I really hated but wanted to try and stick it out for at least a year. I do wish that I had not worked past the six-month probation period but I was young and innocent and in those days still considered a probation period all about the employer finding out if I was good enough, without paying any attention to the fact that it's also supposed to be me finding out if they are a good fit for me. In the end I stayed there for two years because, for the first time, when I started going to interviews, I wasn't getting any offers. I knew myself though, that I was caught in a very negative spiral and the more I tried to get out of it, the more you could smell the desperation on me. I eventually started counselling and even just starting that was enough so that after a few weeks, I was offered a job at the next place I interviewed for. So, if you're in a place that you're worried about friends and family being tired of listening to you complain, that's already a pretty negative place to be. Better to get out of it as soon as possible in case that negativity starts to impact other parts of your life.

If you wife's salary can already cover 80% of your expenses, why are you worried about going back to a lower-paid job? Do you want to FIRE/what is your FIRE timetable and how is it affected by the different levels of salary?

Going back to your old job, if that is possible, seems like a good idea. See what else is out there, too, but reach out to them and see if it would be possible. Perhaps you could negotiate a higher salary or maybe more time to devote to pro-bono cases (I'm not quite sure how it works with pro-bono cases. Is everyone free to spend x number of hours on pro bono per month, for example?). Could you go back to the old job just part-time, and spend the free time doing other work that would satisfy your desire to do new/worthwhile things? Could you go back to your old job but do some work for the new place as a consultant (if that would spare you from some of the micromanaging)? What would your perfect job working life look like and are there any steps you could take now to make some of that happen? Maybe you could have a bit of a brainstorming* session with your wife and/or some close friends to come up with some alternative ideas.


* Or whatever the kids are calling it these days. :-)

[Incandenza]

Get the hell out of there. Why are you waiting?

Ha.  I was confused as to why nobody was yelling at me yet.  Was worried y'all had gone soft. 

I think I'm waiting for the following reasons:

1) There's not a ton of jobs to apply to at the moment, given the economic environment. 
2) This was meant to be my ideal job.  I thought carefully about what I wanted and this was it.  And it wasn't like I was choosing from a bountiful supply of ideal legal jobs.  This was it.  So it's a little hard to now turn around and quit and start that process again.
3) I suspect that a certain amount of inertia comes from being a parent of three little kids, with a working wife.  Energy is not in abundance.
4) The job, while frustrating, is not as bad as some.  I'm not in the office all hours, I like my immediate boss, and the work is satisfying in the sense that I feel like I'm doing some small good in the world.
5) I'm new.  Maybe it'll get better as they trust me more?

But there is no doubting the fact that sitting here, now, I am not happy with work.  As another poster said in another thread (*edit--it was @Malcat ), it depends on one's tolerance for a sub-optimal situation. This is certainly sub-optimal, and my tolerance is fairly low, but I need to gather the energy to make a change.  This is a challenge at the moment. 

If you wife's salary can already cover 80% of your expenses, why are you worried about going back to a lower-paid job?

A good question!  I suppose this experience has made me consider whether a traditional, full time-paying job will ever be satisfying.  I understand jobs are imperfect, as is life, but I have quite a wonderful personal life, with good friends, a wonderful wife, great kids, hobbies, curiosity, wonder.  My non-work life isn't perfect--it's full of work and challenges and there's a few shitty days, but it's great and I love it.

I'd like my work life to match this, but have thus far failed.   

To get to your question, I wonder if I just need to get to FIRE as soon as possible, to see if that freedom allows me to craft a work life that is satisfying.  Taking a pay cut, even if we could handle it easily with our finances, would hinder this plan.

As to my perfect job?  Probably 3-4 days a week, flexible hours, autonomous, doing work that is challenging (good stress), and which I feel good about from a societal standpoint. Just need to find it. 
 

[LWYRUP]

Alternative suggestion:

Have you tried having a conversation with management about this?

"I really love the mission of [org] and have greatly enjoyed learning from you all.  Now that I've learned the ropes, though, I am looking for more autonomy over my cases.  I am a skilled professional with [y] years of experience and I do think that I have the capability to handle matter [z], for example, from beginning to end independently.  I am of course happy to discuss strategy and get advice and run big picture issues by the team, but I do want to have more flexibility to run the day-to-day administration of the matter.  That's how things worked in my old job and I thrived in that sort of environment." 

[Moonwaves]

If you wife's salary can already cover 80% of your expenses, why are you worried about going back to a lower-paid job?

A good question!  I suppose this experience has made me consider whether a traditional, full time-paying job will ever be satisfying.  I understand jobs are imperfect, as is life, but I have quite a wonderful personal life, with good friends, a wonderful wife, great kids, hobbies, curiosity, wonder.  My non-work life isn't perfect--it's full of work and challenges and there's a few shitty days, but it's great and I love it.

I'd like my work life to match this, but have thus far failed.   

To get to your question, I wonder if I just need to get to FIRE as soon as possible, to see if that freedom allows me to craft a work life that is satisfying.  Taking a pay cut, even if we could handle it easily with our finances, would hinder this plan.

What ages are your kids and would being at home part of the time and working just part time be feasible or desirable? Would the non-monetary benefits of that outweigh the monetary benefits of slogging away somewhere you're not completely happy? Remember that a big part of mustachianism is about optimising your life now, and not waiting for a magic number of dollars. Do you have FU money and have you read the thread on Epic FU stories - there's a link in there, I think, to a thread by a lawyer who had the money and time to spare to take on a case and really push back against all the bullshit that was thrown at it by ICE.
Ok, it was linked in the best post thread, here it is: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/share-your-badassity/i-beat-the-federal-government/msg2182528/#msg2182528
Maybe you can find some inspiration there or in some of the FU stories.

As to my perfect job?  Probably 3-4 days a week, flexible hours, autonomous, doing work that is challenging (good stress), and which I feel good about from a societal standpoint. Just need to find it.

• 3-4 days a week
• flexible hours
• autonomous
• doing work that is challenging (good stress)
• which I feel good about from a societal standpoint
• no long commute (I'm adding this in because this is MMM, after all)

If you were to assign one point to each of these things that are present in your current job and in your old job, how would they compare?
If you do have FU money, could you ask your current employer to give you these things, and be prepared to leave if they don't? Maybe try LWYRUP's suggestion first and hold this idea in reserve for if it gets really bad.

For what it's worth, I once worked in a company where one partner insisted that every single external email had to be signed off on by him before it was sent. That meant writing an email, printing it out and stamping it, and him receiving piles of paper every day to sign off on. While 4-eye is obviously a good idea for actually substantive emails, this also meant that, for example, his secretary writing an email that she wanted to order x sandwiches for the meeting on dd.mm.yyyy also had to print it out, stamp it, and potentially wait a day or two to get it back and approved. People like that guy tend not to change much so while I'd love to think that talking to your bosses would help, it seems likely that it may not.

[TomTX]

I had one job I really hated but wanted to try and stick it out for at least a year. I do wish that I had not worked past the six-month probation period but I was young and innocent and in those days still considered a probation period all about the employer finding out if I was good enough, without paying any attention to the fact that it's also supposed to be me finding out if they are a good fit for me.

This is worth repeating: The "probation period" for a new job works both ways.

[Plina]

Get the hell out of there. Why are you waiting?

I think I'm waiting for the following reasons:

1) There's not a ton of jobs to apply to at the moment, given the economic environment. 
2) This was meant to be my ideal job.  I thought carefully about what I wanted and this was it.  And it wasn't like I was choosing from a bountiful supply of ideal legal jobs.  This was it.  So it's a little hard to now turn around and quit and start that process again.
 

I don’t agree that you should go back to your former job. If you are done with a place it is mostly not getting better.

There are a lot of jobs that are filled without an application process in the traditionalist sense. What do you want to work with and what are those places? Do you know anybody that works there? Meet them for a lunch or call them. Tell acquitances that you have started looking for another option.

[NorthernMonkey]

Get the hell out of there. Why are you waiting?

Ha.  I was confused as to why nobody was yelling at me yet.  Was worried y'all had gone soft. 

I think I'm waiting for the following reasons:

1) There's not a ton of jobs to apply to at the moment, given the economic environment. 
2) This was meant to be my ideal job.  I thought carefully about what I wanted and this was it.  And it wasn't like I was choosing from a bountiful supply of ideal legal jobs.  This was it.  So it's a little hard to now turn around and quit and start that process again.
3) I suspect that a certain amount of inertia comes from being a parent of three little kids, with a working wife.  Energy is not in abundance.
4) The job, while frustrating, is not as bad as some.  I'm not in the office all hours, I like my immediate boss, and the work is satisfying in the sense that I feel like I'm doing some small good in the world.
5) I'm new.  Maybe it'll get better as they trust me more?

1) If there aren't a ton of job's that means you need to focus on applying for the ones that aren't there. Things are not going to get better if you don't do something
2)It was supposed to be, but its not. GTF out of there before it affects your health
3) Energy isnt there, because your job is sucking the life force from you GTF out of there
4) It sounds pretty bad, youre complaining all the time, and writing forum posts for advice. None of these are signs of a job which is anything other than grade A sucky
5) Are there any signs of this, any indication that you might change, or are you hoping that things will change just because of the fear of the unknown that is sparked by change?

FFS, GTF out of there

[Goldielocks]

1. If you are able to go back to your old employer and you could see yourself working until you can retire or go part time and enjoy the work i would do this right away!

I can see myself being generally content there, if a bit bored.  I always thought of that job as being in neutral.  I wasn't miserable, but I wasn't exactly where I wanted to be.  Working with my friends, having flexible hours, and being able to handle my cases as I saw fit was a big deal--so many lawyers are unhappy.  But I left because I wanted to go learn something new and get into a more public minded role, and I'd still like to do that if I could.

One option would be to go back and really devote myself to pro-bono work, which would help me feel better and potentially keep me positioned for work in the public interest world. 

In terms of looking for other jobs right now, many of the truly interesting ones would involve a large pay-cut--somewhere around 35k.  My current job is a really unique one where you get paid 6 figures to do public-interest work.  That's why I was excited about it and why I'm so dispirited now.

Have you talked to whomever is in charge about how frustrating the process is for you and asked for changes?

My immediate boss is a reasonable person and started at the same time as me. We get on well. She's diplomatic about it but it's clear she's also frustrated--maybe more so because she's 15 years older than me and also not used to being micro-managed in this way.  I'm curious to see if she lasts.  Lawyers, especially successful* ones, tend to be thick skinned to this stuff so she might just try to wait it out.

But we can't change it.  It's ingrained at top management and won't change until they retire or die at their desks. 

*Success in law often, although not always, comes with misery.  The bosses of which I complain are actually decent people, they're just constantly stressed out and miserable.

I have had success showing the math of how much it was costing them in profits.  You need to be specific and show a specific solution.  Maybe do that for three issues and ask them to implement one of their choice, with your help.  If it works, you can try another one, etc.

[Incandenza]

Many thanks all.  I appreciate everyone who took the time to help me think this through.

Do you have FU money and have you read the thread on Epic FU stories - there's a link in there, I think, to a thread by a lawyer who had the money and time to spare to take on a case and really push back against all the bullshit that was thrown at it by ICE.

This is particularly helpful, although maybe surprisingly it helped me understand that I'd like to spend more time trying to make this job work.  While my work is not as heroic as that particular attorney, reading the story reminded me how fortunate I am to be in a position where I am also assisting people, not corporations, and doing it for a decent salary--it means something. 

The FU stories also made me realize that my situation, while sub-optimal, is not untenable yet.  Those stories included abusive bosses, horrific co-workers, working through Christmas, etc.  I'm not there yet.  I have a fairly decent instinct for leaving bad situations, be it relationships, friendships, or jobs (I lasted less than a year at a big firm), and I think I'll trust that instinct to let me know when time is up.

Do you have FU money

And if that instinct does kick in then, yes, I think with $450,000 in the market and the majority of our expenses covered by my wife's salary, It'd be pretty easy to take a break and spend a little time with my kids while I consider the next move.

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I am an attorney here and your thread resonates.

Brief summary — I was at a firm I eventually didn’t like, and left after three years. Then I went to work with a solo. She was unethical so I bailed after three months to start my own practice. 

My solo practice was pretty successful. I was generating probably $130k in annual revenue.

However, I just started a job with my city. Great benefits, thought it would be ideal to do in conjunction with my practice. The workflow here is similar to what you describe, except add politics and a city that is always putting out fires.

I really cannot describe how little of a damn I give about leaving this job shortly. I can go back to my solo practice, but better yet I’ve already been offered to become a 51% owner of a title company.

I will never pursue income to chase FI. My solo practice is basically quasi-FI — it’s always there to make $75k in a bad year. I will probably never close it.

So my advice would be to do whatever you damn well please. The worst case scenario is never as bad as you think it will be.

I’m a nobody and three years after leaving my “safe” firm job, which paid $50k/year, I went to a solo practice making six figures, a city job with amazing benefits paying $66k/year *plus* running my solo practice on the side (probably total compensation of $150k-ish), to being offered ownership in a title company that might have seven figure revenue.

Do not let fear hold you back. You seem very intelligent and successful. Think about what you want out of your life and career and go for it.

Part of being a competent professional is being able to politely tell bad employers to fuck off and not give a shit what they think.

[Incandenza]

I will never pursue income to chase FI. My solo practice is basically quasi-FI — it’s always there to make $75k in a bad year. I will probably never close it.

This is something like a--still slightly vague--plan of mine for FI.  I often think about the idea of running a solo practice where I don't necessarily have to make any money.  I don't think I'm interested/have the time to hustle for money like so many solos do as a career, but it's attractive if I can choose my cases and work as much or as little as I'd like.  It would keep me occupied, potentially doing some good, and could generate revenue if it was needed.  Some of the skills I'm building currently would fit well into this plan. 

I'm curious--what kind of work took up most of your time in a solo practice?

[ReadySetMillionaire]

I will never pursue income to chase FI. My solo practice is basically quasi-FI — it’s always there to make $75k in a bad year. I will probably never close it.

This is something like a--still slightly vague--plan of mine for FI.  I often think about the idea of running a solo practice where I don't necessarily have to make any money.  I don't think I'm interested/have the time to hustle for money like so many solos do as a career, but it's attractive if I can choose my cases and work as much or as little as I'd like.  It would keep me occupied, potentially doing some good, and could generate revenue if it was needed.  Some of the skills I'm building currently would fit well into this plan. 

I'm curious--what kind of work took up most of your time in a solo practice?

I generally have a civil litigation practice, which obviously ebbs and flows. I would be more than happy to help you with the low-cost technology I use to automate as much of the bullshit as possible.

I actually have a blog I've started if you'd like to take a look -- www.the100ksolo.com

[lilsaver]

I feel for you - I'm sorry you have to experience this. It's obvious you want to do good work, but it's beyond difficult to work in "circles" because of the bureaucracy and micro management. I suggest starting to job search right away, even if there are not a ton of openings in your field right now, get into this mental state as soon as possible - polish the resume, update the LinkedIn, connect with headhunters, and contact old mentors and colleagues for leads. It may not feel painful yet at the current job to want to do all this, but it will make you feel better to get something going. It'll give you a distraction, help you focus on something else, and feel "relief" from the pain of the current situation. I know you said this was suppose to be the perfect job, but don't stay in that mind frame. Give yourself permission to know and realize that it isn't, and that's perfectly OK. You can do better, and you WILL do better.

As for the previous job - you could try to get in touch with a contact at your old job for a lead, but just remember it may have changed since then and may be on a different trajectory. So be careful - selective memory, although not intentional, can be at play here. And remember, you left there for a reason too.

Hope this helps.

[Metalcat]

Get the hell out of there. Why are you waiting?

Ha.  I was confused as to why nobody was yelling at me yet.  Was worried y'all had gone soft. 

I think I'm waiting for the following reasons:

1) There's not a ton of jobs to apply to at the moment, given the economic environment. 
2) This was meant to be my ideal job.  I thought carefully about what I wanted and this was it.  And it wasn't like I was choosing from a bountiful supply of ideal legal jobs.  This was it.  So it's a little hard to now turn around and quit and start that process again.
3) I suspect that a certain amount of inertia comes from being a parent of three little kids, with a working wife.  Energy is not in abundance.
4) The job, while frustrating, is not as bad as some.  I'm not in the office all hours, I like my immediate boss, and the work is satisfying in the sense that I feel like I'm doing some small good in the world.
5) I'm new.  Maybe it'll get better as they trust me more?

But there is no doubting the fact that sitting here, now, I am not happy with work.  As another poster said in another thread (*edit--it was @Malcat ), it depends on one's tolerance for a sub-optimal situation. This is certainly sub-optimal, and my tolerance is fairly low, but I need to gather the energy to make a change.  This is a challenge at the moment. 

If you wife's salary can already cover 80% of your expenses, why are you worried about going back to a lower-paid job?

A good question!  I suppose this experience has made me consider whether a traditional, full time-paying job will ever be satisfying.  I understand jobs are imperfect, as is life, but I have quite a wonderful personal life, with good friends, a wonderful wife, great kids, hobbies, curiosity, wonder.  My non-work life isn't perfect--it's full of work and challenges and there's a few shitty days, but it's great and I love it.

I'd like my work life to match this, but have thus far failed.   

To get to your question, I wonder if I just need to get to FIRE as soon as possible, to see if that freedom allows me to craft a work life that is satisfying.  Taking a pay cut, even if we could handle it easily with our finances, would hinder this plan.

As to my perfect job?  Probably 3-4 days a week, flexible hours, autonomous, doing work that is challenging (good stress), and which I feel good about from a societal standpoint. Just need to find it.

Yeah...sounds something I would say.

I have very little patience for people who have options to not be miserable choosing to just stay put and stay miserable.

Also, a lot of ideal jobs don't exist until you make them exist. Organizations don't generate ideal jobs themselves, but they do often have room for them.

I love total cluster fuck small to medium companies, because there's so much room for improvement and so many opportunities to engineer your own role.

You will likely continue to fail to find your "ideal" work until you start proactively creating it for yourself.

Your current leadership sounds like an inefficient mess. Have you considered really proving your value and then leveraging that to try experimenting with running your own work differently?

The happiest people I know in organizations are those who carved out their own autonomous corner and they usually did it through leveraging their established value, not because they happened to stumble upon and apply for a job listing that said "perfect job for *YOU*! APPLY NOW!"

If what you have tried has failed to produce the desired results. Try something else.

ETA: oh, and if you do decide you want to leave the job, there are no rules for how long you need to have worked there. There are only risks, which you need to quantify for yourself as an individual. For one person, the risks of leaving in under a year may be large, for another they may be negligible.

It depends on your circumstances, goals, history, job market, etc.

[Incandenza]

Thanks for stopping by Malcat!  I'll confess I've read some of your other posts.  Always an impressive mix of self-confidence, aggression, and eloquence.  Not so unlike the voice of MMM himself. 

people who have options to not be miserable choosing to just stay put and stay miserable.

I'll take issue with the word "miserable," although maybe my original post could be fairly described as miserable.  I think a better description is pissed off.

I deal with chronic pain which occasionally inspires some misery, so I know what that is.  Work (at least some days, at the moment) is just fucking annoying.

But I suppose the point remains, whether you call it misery or anger.  To that point, I've come to the conclusion that staying put here, at least temporarily, isn't going to lead necessarily to still further anger.   It might, and if it does I'll leave, but I think it's worth an effort to see if I can make it work.     

The happiest people I know in organizations are those who carved out their own autonomous corner and they usually did it through leveraging their established value, not because they happened to stumble upon and apply for a job listing that said "perfect job for *YOU*! APPLY NOW!"

This is true and fair, and actually why I think it's a good idea to continue in this position for at least the short-term.  I've only been here 9 months, many of which have been covid months.  It's an open question right now whether I can find the autonomy I need.  Things aren't going to change drastically, but there are smart ways to navigate a bureaucracy that could allow me to find a niche.  Some folks who have been here longer seem to have accomplished this. 

Because this job solves one of my main two requirements in working life (good and stimulating work) I'm willing to take some more time to figure out if I can find the second (autonomy). 

 

[Metalcat]

Thanks for stopping by Malcat!  I'll confess I've read some of your other posts.  Always an impressive mix of self-confidence, aggression, and eloquence.  Not so unlike the voice of MMM himself. 

people who have options to not be miserable choosing to just stay put and stay miserable.

I'll take issue with the word "miserable," although maybe my original post could be fairly described as miserable.  I think a better description is pissed off.

I deal with chronic pain which occasionally inspires some misery, so I know what that is.  Work (at least some days, at the moment) is just fucking annoying.

But I suppose the point remains, whether you call it misery or anger.  To that point, I've come to the conclusion that staying put here, at least temporarily, isn't going to lead necessarily to still further anger.   It might, and if it does I'll leave, but I think it's worth an effort to see if I can make it work.     

The happiest people I know in organizations are those who carved out their own autonomous corner and they usually did it through leveraging their established value, not because they happened to stumble upon and apply for a job listing that said "perfect job for *YOU*! APPLY NOW!"

This is true and fair, and actually why I think it's a good idea to continue in this position for at least the short-term.  I've only been here 9 months, many of which have been covid months.  It's an open question right now whether I can find the autonomy I need.  Things aren't going to change drastically, but there are smart ways to navigate a bureaucracy that could allow me to find a niche.  Some folks who have been here longer seem to have accomplished this. 

Because this job solves one of my main two requirements in working life (good and stimulating work) I'm willing to take some more time to figure out if I can find the second (autonomy).

Don't be afraid to think very outside the box when it comes to troughing out your own niche within your organization. There's often so much more maneuverability than you think there is. I've done it so many times that I have now not just engineered my own role within a company, but that role itself involves revamping other people's roles as well.

[Incandenza]

To resurrect this briefly and give those who helpfully replied an update:

My boss at my old job called a couple weeks ago asking if I'd like to go back.  A position had come open and he'd heard from some of my former colleagues that I wasn't happy in my new job.   

I told him that I was interested but specified the work I wanted to do, and what I didn't want to do.  He agreed. 

I get a promotion and will maintain my current-job salary, which is about a 12% increase on where I was in my former job when I left a year ago.  So by leaving and coming back I'm getting a promotion, raise, and a more interesting set of responsibilities.

A few lessons learned, which are obvious in retrospect but you never really know until you live it:

1) Leaving in the first place was still the right move.  Even if things don't work out, there's always more opportunities.   

2) The people you work with are more important than the work itself.  Great people and great work is obviously ideal, but if you have to make a sacrifice somewhere, always choose to work with people you know and like.  If that means slightly less interesting/prestigious/profitable/noble work, so be it.

3) Always keep in touch with folks you worked with and liked.  Real friendships in work--and I'm not talking about a shallow professional network of "contacts," but actual friends who you know and like and care about--are vital.  Maintaining those friendships gives you more options, and better options.

4) The best workplaces are those that allow those friendships to form.

In any event, thanks for those who listened and responded when I was at a low point.  Cheers.       

[rantk81]

Sounds like it worked out well for you and your former (and soon to be current) employer.  Win-win!  Congrats

[Metalcat]

Congrats on the excellent outcome and the expansive attitude.