Author Topic: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?  (Read 7509 times)

jpdx

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #50 on: August 13, 2019, 03:58:48 PM »
I think it's best to just live by example. I live in a place where bicycle commuting is fairly common, and nothing is more inspirational to me than seeing throngs of people riding. Just normalize the behavior and hopefully more people will catch on.

Alchemisst

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2019, 07:16:26 PM »
I guess Copenhagen wouldn't be much of an issue given the weather and flat area, so sweating wouldn't be a big issue

Hula Hoop

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2019, 02:40:00 AM »
Two of Europe's great biking cities - Copenhagen (Denmark) and Amsterdam (the Netherlands) are also extremely flat making it easier to keep a decent pace without sweating.

Also, the weather is generally nice and cool in those two cities.  We were just in Amsterdam and it was a perfect 18 decrees celcius.  Perfect cycling weather.  Where I live it's 33-38 degrees celcius 3 months a year during summer, hilly, no cycle lanes, medieval narrow streets and completely insane car and scooter drivers.  I have friends who cycle everywhere here but I wouldn't do it.  I used to cycle around NYC no problems but would not do it here.

dignam

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2019, 06:38:28 AM »
Is it just me or is this thread needlessly contemptuous? I have a car and I love track days but I don't feel like I need to plead my case to normies/suckas as to why they are missing out on one of the great experiences of life on track.

If you like to ride, that's great. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.

It's not just you.

I have a co worker who bikes in daily.  We have the standard hot/humid Great Lakes summer, some hills around so he's always drenched in sweat when he gets here (at least he showers here).  When I was closer to work I'd bike in too; I did enjoy it for the most part.  Granted we are in a city known to be very bike friendly.  I also enjoy driving (I do attend occasional track days myself).  The problem here is weather extremes and comparatively huge areas.  I once biked in when it was around 15F, and I couldn't feel my, *ahem*, boys when I arrived.  Took an hour to warm them up; never again.  15F is hardly even "cold" for here too...

The fact is, Northern Europe is FAR more conducive to biking everywhere vs. most of the US.  As stated, northern EU areas are flat, cooler/less extreme weather and cities much more compact.  Outside of US city centers, good luck biking anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, safely.  No way in hell I'd bike down two lane county highways with all the idiot drivers staring at their phones.

GuitarStv

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2019, 07:52:53 AM »
I have a co worker who bikes in daily.  We have the standard hot/humid Great Lakes summer, some hills around so he's always drenched in sweat when he gets here (at least he showers here).  When I was closer to work I'd bike in too; I did enjoy it for the most part.  Granted we are in a city known to be very bike friendly.  I also enjoy driving (I do attend occasional track days myself).  The problem here is weather extremes and comparatively huge areas.  I once biked in when it was around 15F, and I couldn't feel my, *ahem*, boys when I arrived.  Took an hour to warm them up; never again.  15F is hardly even "cold" for here too...

I commute a 24 mile round trip to work two or three days a week every week here in Toronto.  I've been doing that now for seven years.  My cut-off for riding is an absolute temperature of -20 C (4 F) . . . windchill doesn't matter, because there's always windchill on a bike.  The reason that I don't cycle in temperatures lower than that is that I have problems with steam coming from my face hitting and then icing over my glasses.  There's no good way to clean it off that I've found.  Temperature-wise I'm toasty warm though.

If you're cold, you need to buy warmer clothes.  These clothes won't necessarily be cycling clothes though.  Cycling companies tend not to make anything worth using much under -5C (23F).  I've eventually settled on layers for the cold.  This is what I'll do for extreme temperatures, and then I'll adjust the layers as temperatures warm up:

Top:
- Light weight windbreaker
- Very heavy polartec fleece sweater
- Close fitting medium weight synthetic fleece base layer

Bottom:
- Ski tights
- Superroubaix bib pants
- Sweat wicking thermal underwear

Head:
- Balaclava
- Helmet liner
- Windproof headband

Hands:
- Heavy duty snowmobile gloves a size too big for me
- Long fingered cycling gloves inside them

Feet:
- Wind/waterproof running shoes or hiking boots two sizes too big
- Two thick pairs of merino wool socks

mm1970

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2019, 11:21:18 AM »
I guess Copenhagen wouldn't be much of an issue given the weather and flat area, so sweating wouldn't be a big issue
It can be humid though, and it does rain (they get wet), and the temperature is increasing with global warming (they can feel it for sure).

The infrastructure makes it easier for sure, and the ability to mosey.

kendallf

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GuitarStv

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2019, 01:17:43 PM »
Jef's understated personality grates on me sometimes.

Tass

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2019, 01:47:43 PM »

Hash Brown

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2019, 02:54:04 PM »
Jef's understated personality grates on me sometimes.

That comic was new to me.  The public is pretty much only familiar with road cyclists, but mountain bikers look dimly upon "roadies", and don't care at all what the public thinks of them because they're out-of-view.  The thing with mountain biking is that quite ironically you need a vehicle to take your $4,000 mountain bike out to the trails.  Sometimes the guys out there are a little showy and have $40,000 pickup trucks with their $4,000 mountain bikes displayed prominently. 


Hash Brown

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2019, 02:59:47 PM »
My cut-off for riding is an absolute temperature of -20 C (4 F) . . . windchill doesn't matter, because there's always windchill on a bike.  The reason that I don't cycle in temperatures lower than that is that I have problems with steam coming from my face hitting and then icing over my glasses.  There's no good way to clean it off that I've found.  Temperature-wise I'm toasty warm though.

Yeah I've had the same problem with the glasses.  I end up having to look over the top of them. Frankly it's pretty dangerous -- not only is your vision obstructed, so is the vision of many drivers who are driving around with snow on their car.  Also, I have had the chain start to freeze up because somehow tiny pieces of water in the oil ice up.


rothwem

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2019, 07:18:26 AM »
I have a co worker who bikes in daily.  We have the standard hot/humid Great Lakes summer, some hills around so he's always drenched in sweat when he gets here (at least he showers here).  When I was closer to work I'd bike in too; I did enjoy it for the most part.  Granted we are in a city known to be very bike friendly.  I also enjoy driving (I do attend occasional track days myself).  The problem here is weather extremes and comparatively huge areas.  I once biked in when it was around 15F, and I couldn't feel my, *ahem*, boys when I arrived.  Took an hour to warm them up; never again.  15F is hardly even "cold" for here too...

I commute a 24 mile round trip to work two or three days a week every week here in Toronto.  I've been doing that now for seven years.  My cut-off for riding is an absolute temperature of -20 C (4 F) . . . windchill doesn't matter, because there's always windchill on a bike.  The reason that I don't cycle in temperatures lower than that is that I have problems with steam coming from my face hitting and then icing over my glasses.  There's no good way to clean it off that I've found.  Temperature-wise I'm toasty warm though.

If you're cold, you need to buy warmer clothes.  These clothes won't necessarily be cycling clothes though.  Cycling companies tend not to make anything worth using much under -5C (23F).  I've eventually settled on layers for the cold.  This is what I'll do for extreme temperatures, and then I'll adjust the layers as temperatures warm up:

Top:
- Light weight windbreaker
- Very heavy polartec fleece sweater
- Close fitting medium weight synthetic fleece base layer

Bottom:
- Ski tights
- Superroubaix bib pants
- Sweat wicking thermal underwear

Head:
- Balaclava
- Helmet liner
- Windproof headband

Hands:
- Heavy duty snowmobile gloves a size too big for me
- Long fingered cycling gloves inside them

Feet:
- Wind/waterproof running shoes or hiking boots two sizes too big
- Two thick pairs of merino wool socks

Fuuuckkk that.

I'm done riding to work when its below 40F, which is about the temperature where I start to freeze when my windbreaker and fleece gloves aren't enough. 

GuitarStv

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2019, 09:20:41 AM »
I have a co worker who bikes in daily.  We have the standard hot/humid Great Lakes summer, some hills around so he's always drenched in sweat when he gets here (at least he showers here).  When I was closer to work I'd bike in too; I did enjoy it for the most part.  Granted we are in a city known to be very bike friendly.  I also enjoy driving (I do attend occasional track days myself).  The problem here is weather extremes and comparatively huge areas.  I once biked in when it was around 15F, and I couldn't feel my, *ahem*, boys when I arrived.  Took an hour to warm them up; never again.  15F is hardly even "cold" for here too...

I commute a 24 mile round trip to work two or three days a week every week here in Toronto.  I've been doing that now for seven years.  My cut-off for riding is an absolute temperature of -20 C (4 F) . . . windchill doesn't matter, because there's always windchill on a bike.  The reason that I don't cycle in temperatures lower than that is that I have problems with steam coming from my face hitting and then icing over my glasses.  There's no good way to clean it off that I've found.  Temperature-wise I'm toasty warm though.

If you're cold, you need to buy warmer clothes.  These clothes won't necessarily be cycling clothes though.  Cycling companies tend not to make anything worth using much under -5C (23F).  I've eventually settled on layers for the cold.  This is what I'll do for extreme temperatures, and then I'll adjust the layers as temperatures warm up:

Top:
- Light weight windbreaker
- Very heavy polartec fleece sweater
- Close fitting medium weight synthetic fleece base layer

Bottom:
- Ski tights
- Superroubaix bib pants
- Sweat wicking thermal underwear

Head:
- Balaclava
- Helmet liner
- Windproof headband

Hands:
- Heavy duty snowmobile gloves a size too big for me
- Long fingered cycling gloves inside them

Feet:
- Wind/waterproof running shoes or hiking boots two sizes too big
- Two thick pairs of merino wool socks

Fuuuckkk that.

I'm done riding to work when its below 40F, which is about the temperature where I start to freeze when my windbreaker and fleece gloves aren't enough.

Sounds like a rule 5 violation there, and a failure to live up to the full potential of rule 9.

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/comment-page-8/

:P

Just Joe

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2019, 09:32:30 AM »
I'm done riding to work when its below 40F, which is about the temperature where I start to freeze when my windbreaker and fleece gloves aren't enough.

With a proper paper thin windbreaker over fleece and good cycling gloves it is easy to extend your riding temps lower with little loss of comfort.

That wind breaker was a game changer. All my life here I jumped from fleece on mild but cool days to heavy winter coat.

The miracles of modern materials... I'm usually too cheap to buy them.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2019, 10:07:07 AM »
I have a co worker who bikes in daily.  We have the standard hot/humid Great Lakes summer, some hills around so he's always drenched in sweat when he gets here (at least he showers here).  When I was closer to work I'd bike in too; I did enjoy it for the most part.  Granted we are in a city known to be very bike friendly.  I also enjoy driving (I do attend occasional track days myself).  The problem here is weather extremes and comparatively huge areas.  I once biked in when it was around 15F, and I couldn't feel my, *ahem*, boys when I arrived.  Took an hour to warm them up; never again.  15F is hardly even "cold" for here too...

I commute a 24 mile round trip to work two or three days a week every week here in Toronto.  I've been doing that now for seven years.  My cut-off for riding is an absolute temperature of -20 C (4 F) . . . windchill doesn't matter, because there's always windchill on a bike.  The reason that I don't cycle in temperatures lower than that is that I have problems with steam coming from my face hitting and then icing over my glasses.  There's no good way to clean it off that I've found.  Temperature-wise I'm toasty warm though.

If you're cold, you need to buy warmer clothes.  These clothes won't necessarily be cycling clothes though.  Cycling companies tend not to make anything worth using much under -5C (23F).  I've eventually settled on layers for the cold.  This is what I'll do for extreme temperatures, and then I'll adjust the layers as temperatures warm up:

Top:
- Light weight windbreaker
- Very heavy polartec fleece sweater
- Close fitting medium weight synthetic fleece base layer

Bottom:
- Ski tights
- Superroubaix bib pants
- Sweat wicking thermal underwear

Head:
- Balaclava
- Helmet liner
- Windproof headband

Hands:
- Heavy duty snowmobile gloves a size too big for me
- Long fingered cycling gloves inside them

Feet:
- Wind/waterproof running shoes or hiking boots two sizes too big
- Two thick pairs of merino wool socks

Fuuuckkk that.

I'm done riding to work when its below 40F, which is about the temperature where I start to freeze when my windbreaker and fleece gloves aren't enough.

lol, DH bikes to work in -40 C/F wearing almost exactly what GuitarStv described and he's totally comfortable. The only time he won't bike is if there's a snowstorm that the snow removal trucks can't keep up with, in which case he runs instead.

OP, as for trying to convince people, do so at your own peril.

DH and I both actively try to avoid talking to people about cycling to work because it turns into the same obnoxious conversation over and over and over. I stopped biking because I took a job further away, but after 5 years of it, DH just cringes every time someone asks him about his bike commute because he just knows he's going to hear a stream of excuses that he doesn't give a shit about.

It's like how vegans always have to explain to people how they're able to get enough protein in their diet and then hear about how the person couldn't possibly give up bacon.

rothwem

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2019, 09:10:19 AM »
Sounds like a rule 5 violation there, and a failure to live up to the full potential of rule 9.

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/comment-page-8/

:P

Haha, the velominati.  Its sad that they're no longer updating that blog. 

SpaceCow

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2019, 07:01:51 PM »
Is it just me or is this thread needlessly contemptuous? I have a car and I love track days but I don't feel like I need to plead my case to normies/suckas as to why they are missing out on one of the great experiences of life on track.

If you like to ride, that's great. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.

I guess I wasn't really clear in the OP. Riding my bike to work gives me a lot of curious attention from my coworkers with most of them wanting to know my motivations for commuting by bike. I made this post because my the reasons I normally cite (I cycle for fun anyway, avoid traffic jams, save the planet, etc.) don't really seem to resonate.

Not only does that explanation not resonate with my coworkers, but I also do not think it fully captures my actual motivation. The truth is that the MMM blog has made me view commuting by car (which I used to do less than a year ago) as clownish, ridiculous, or absurd. It's the same thing that makes me feel guilty if I oversleep and am forced to take the car to work.

I don't mean to sound contemptuous, rather I was using the language that I learned from the MMM blog. That being said it is interesting to see how some folks people on the forum here seem to back down from the extremes of MMM's hostility toward car lifestyle.

SpaceCow

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2019, 07:28:08 PM »
Is it just me or is this thread needlessly contemptuous? I have a car and I love track days but I don't feel like I need to plead my case to normies/suckas as to why they are missing out on one of the great experiences of life on track.

If you like to ride, that's great. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.

I guess I wasn't really clear in the OP. Riding my bike to work gives me a lot of curious attention from my coworkers with most of them wanting to know my motivations for commuting by bike. I made this post because my the reasons I normally cite (I cycle for fun anyway, avoid traffic jams, save the planet, etc.) don't really seem to resonate.

Not only does that explanation not resonate with my coworkers, but I also do not think it fully captures my actual motivation. The truth is that the MMM blog has made me view commuting by car (which I used to do less than a year ago) as clownish, ridiculous, or absurd. It's the same thing that makes me feel guilty if I oversleep and am forced to take the car to work.

I don't mean to sound contemptuous, rather I was using the language that I learned from the MMM blog. That being said it is interesting to see how some folks people on the forum here seem to back down from the extremes of MMM's hostility toward car lifestyle.

Also, to be clear, I have never and will never try to argue with people or call people out, nor do I look down on people for driving to work. I am enthusiastic about bike riding, but I make a point not to bring it up unless prompted. I just feel like the blog helped me to discover a healthier way of viewing transportation, one that is difficult to explain succinctly when questioned. I'm not sure where some of you guys came up with the vision of me going around shaming random people for driving their cars, LOL.

Metalcat

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2019, 07:16:11 AM »
Is it just me or is this thread needlessly contemptuous? I have a car and I love track days but I don't feel like I need to plead my case to normies/suckas as to why they are missing out on one of the great experiences of life on track.

If you like to ride, that's great. It sounds like a fantastic hobby.

I guess I wasn't really clear in the OP. Riding my bike to work gives me a lot of curious attention from my coworkers with most of them wanting to know my motivations for commuting by bike. I made this post because my the reasons I normally cite (I cycle for fun anyway, avoid traffic jams, save the planet, etc.) don't really seem to resonate.

Not only does that explanation not resonate with my coworkers, but I also do not think it fully captures my actual motivation. The truth is that the MMM blog has made me view commuting by car (which I used to do less than a year ago) as clownish, ridiculous, or absurd. It's the same thing that makes me feel guilty if I oversleep and am forced to take the car to work.

I don't mean to sound contemptuous, rather I was using the language that I learned from the MMM blog. That being said it is interesting to see how some folks people on the forum here seem to back down from the extremes of MMM's hostility toward car lifestyle.

Very few people on this site are like Pete's online persona. Don't write like MMM unless you want to piss people off, that's the whole point of him writing that way.

Sigh, yes, as I mentioned before, you will pretty much get an endless supply of people who are curious but don't actually care about why you are cycling. You are more of an oddity that they want to poke at a little rather than someone doing something genuinely interesting to them, that's why nothing you say resonates and nothing ever will.

On top of that, a lot of your reasons will make them feel irrationally judged, hence the knee-jerk reaction to vaguely or outright reject what you are saying. It's not about you at all, they don't care even a smidge about your reasons for doing it, they only really care about their reasons not to.

Some people will take a genuine interest, but they differentiate themselves very quickly and they'll take a keen interest in your reasons as opposed to just piping up with the next objection or statements like "well, I couldn't do it because of X, Y, and Z".

jim555

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2019, 08:09:49 AM »
The safety issue is a deal breaker for me.  Get in an accident on a bike and you will be seriously messed up.  At least in a car I am surrounded by metal and have air bags.  The drivers around me drive like maniacs.

habanero

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2019, 08:54:34 AM »
The safety issue is a deal breaker for me.  Get in an accident on a bike and you will be seriously messed up.  At least in a car I am surrounded by metal and have air bags.  The drivers around me drive like maniacs.

Quite often the route you bike from A to B is significantly different from the rute taken in a car. Local conditions do vary of course, but where I live people seem genuinely surprised when I explain how they can get from home to work on a bike without cycling in traffic for almost the entire route, and when traffic its on small suburban rows with little traffic. They never really thought about i, ain't used to look at a city map with cycling/running/walking in mind and and don't know the area they live in very well as there are large parts you never visit unless you live there, bike there or hike there. A leisurly bike speed can be 20+ km/h (12.5 mph) so a detour of a couple of kilometers/miles doesn't really add that much time to the commute.

However - even as an avid cyclist I understand while some might find it scary to cycle in traffic. The rationality of it is, in my view, somewhere on the spectrum from "totally ratonal" to "totally irrational" depending on actual situatio.

RedmondStash

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2019, 09:26:13 AM »
OP, I'm not sure there's any need to explain anything to anyone. You can say you prefer to bike, that it's a workout, that it makes more sense to you personally than driving, and leave it at that. Actions speak louder than words, and your actions show that biking to work is something you believe in. That may inspire others without any explanation needed.

If people react with pity or more questions, you can just smile inscrutably and change the subject. My favorite go-to line is, "It'd be a funny old world if we were all the same."

Arbitrage

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2019, 11:50:53 AM »
The safety issue is a deal breaker for me.  Get in an accident on a bike and you will be seriously messed up.  At least in a car I am surrounded by metal and have air bags.  The drivers around me drive like maniacs.

Quite often the route you bike from A to B is significantly different from the rute taken in a car. Local conditions do vary of course, but where I live people seem genuinely surprised when I explain how they can get from home to work on a bike without cycling in traffic for almost the entire route, and when traffic its on small suburban rows with little traffic. They never really thought about i, ain't used to look at a city map with cycling/running/walking in mind and and don't know the area they live in very well as there are large parts you never visit unless you live there, bike there or hike there. A leisurly bike speed can be 20+ km/h (12.5 mph) so a detour of a couple of kilometers/miles doesn't really add that much time to the commute.

However - even as an avid cyclist I understand while some might find it scary to cycle in traffic. The rationality of it is, in my view, somewhere on the spectrum from "totally ratonal" to "totally irrational" depending on actual situatio.

I felt the same way before really investigating it.  I live in car-insane Los Angeles county, and biking to work never even entered my calculus before MMM.  Even after spending time here, it was the same excuses - dangerous, city streets/in traffic, no safe route, etc.  I spent one weekday morning I had off investigating routes on my bike after playing around with the Google Maps bike directions, realized that it wasn't nearly as bad as I'd assumed, and then had the epiphany that an e-bike would actually make this thing doable without killing my already full weekday schedule. 

Even though there is almost no bike infrastructure here, I use my bike almost exclusively, save for family car trips.  This includes the majority of our family's errands.  Biking on roads that I would consider 'unsafe' is a small minority of my mileage, primarily on a ~1.5-mile stretch that's actually in a bike lane.  I will say that there are plenty of roads that I wouldn't feel very comfortable on (I've tried some of them), but mostly I can avoid those.  I do think that having an e-bike helps a lot, as I can accelerate quickly and keep up with traffic much better. 

For those forced to take 45+ mph roads without bike infrastructure, I can definitely see the turnoff of biking there.

ysette9

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2019, 12:06:40 PM »
Google maps bike option has really opened up the world to me. I agree that there are all these other ways to get from A to B on quieter streets and trails and combos thereof that you wouldn’t get to experience in a car. I enjoy exploring places I’ve never seen by bike simply going to work. I remember once Google took me through an intersection onto a trail that abruptly became a little walking path that cut through the fields of a school and then dumped out into a neighborhood. Impossible to pass through as a car but super convenient on the bike. What fun!

mschaus

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2019, 12:32:55 PM »
For those forced to take 45+ mph roads without bike infrastructure, I can definitely see the turnoff of biking there.

Arbitrage, you've done an awesome job (congrats!) and have already made my point: That quoted item is true, but I think the message people need to see is that "living in an unsafe place to bike" is only applicable to a tiny fraction of the population who lives in a populated area. That is, if you think your town isn't safe for biking, there is a 99% chance you are incorrect and just need to find a buddy (internet or real life) who can help you get started.

A central tenet of mustachianism -- learn what cool/good/useful things that people are doing, and figure out how to incorporate into your own life, even if some particular aspect is more difficult.

Hash Brown

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2019, 09:09:43 AM »
For those forced to take 45+ mph roads without bike infrastructure, I can definitely see the turnoff of biking there.

I started biking on "busy" streets around age 10, so it always seemed normal to me, and it never occurred to me that a car would ever hit me.  There was no such thing as a bike trail or bike lane within 100 miles.  We had never heard of such a thing.  We did ride our BMX on sidewalks fairly often, where they existed, but more often were out in traffic. 

FFWD to 2010 or so, when talking about bike infrastructure became a big deal on Twitter, etc., and all of these people were demanding bike lanes - something I had hardly ever experienced.  The few times I chimed in telling people they just need to get out there and get better at riding a bike, I was hissed at by a Twitter army.   

Then I had a 6-month illness totally unrelated to bicycling and developed anxiety for the first time in my life.  All of the sudden, at age 38, I was scared of cars.  It went away after a few months after I took anti-anxiety medication but it indicated to me that the irrational fear of biking in mixed traffic really is in the minds of people who are afraid to ride a bike. 

I don't know how to fix that, and I am unconvinced that most bike lanes are much safer than riding in mixed traffic. 

Also, mountain biking as it exists today is WAY more difficult and WAY more dangerous than riding on city streets.  No comparison.  If you are intimidated by the thought of riding a bike in the city, go rent a mountain bike for a few weekends and hit your area's trails. 


 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 10:23:14 PM by jmecklenborg »

nereo

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2019, 09:31:23 AM »
For those forced to take 45+ mph roads without bike infrastructure, I can definitely see the turnoff of biking there.

I started biking on "busy" streets around age 10, so it always seemed normal to me, and it never occurred to me that a car would ever hit me.  There was no such thing as a bike trail or bike lane within 100 miles.  We had never heard of such a thing.  We did ride our BMX on sidewalks fairly often, where they existed, but more often were out in traffic. 

FFWD to 2010 or so, when talking about bike infrastructure became a big deal on Twitter, etc., and all of these people were demanding bike lanes - something I had hardly ever experienced.  The few times I chimed in telling people they just need to get out there and get better at riding a bike, I was hissed at by a Twitter army.   

Then I had a 6-month illness totally unrelated to bicycling and developed anxiety for the first time in my life.  All of the sudden, at age 38, I was scared of cars.  It went away after a few months after I took anti-anxiety medication - and got back on the bike - but it indicated to me that the irrational fear of biking in mixed traffic really is in the minds of people who are afraid to ride a bike. 

I don't know how to fix that, and I am unconvinced that most bike lanes are much safer than riding in mixed traffic.  Also, to this day, every single time I get on a bike, be it for a short errand or out riding at a mountain bike trail (something that certainly didn't exist back in the 80s!) my mind goes back to age 10-12 and afterward my mind is clear. 

Also, mountain biking as it exists today is WAY more difficult and WAY more dangerous than riding on city streets.  No comparison.  If you are intimidated by the thought of riding a bike in the city, go rent a mountain bike for a few weekends and hit your areas trails. 

To me it's an issue centered on how we spend tax revenue.  For nearly a century we've prioritized car transportation at the expense of pedestrian and cycling.  One side effect has been lifestyles which are increasingly sedentary and unhealthy. Another is the shear amount of space and money required to build and maintain roads capable of supporting large, heavy vehicles at high speeds.

As someone who also frequently shares the road with cars I agree that this is possible in many areas, but in the overwhelming majority of places cars are given a higher priority than cyclists or pedestrians.  While that makes sense in rural areas (where I currently live), it seems unjust in the more densely areas like suburbs and urban centers.

partgypsy

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2019, 10:48:17 AM »
I used biking as my transportation all throughout college, and combination of walking, biking, public transportation for the 3 years I lived in Chicago. I'm 50 but only got my driver's license 15 years ago, only started driving in earnest (out of necessity) 3 years ago.
Anyways, for whatever reason (older, out of practice) All the more power for people who bike in, but I have to admit I'm too chickensh*t to commute via bike. I do understand people who are too scared to ride a bike, because honestly the drivers around here do not watch out for bikes! A fellow employee who rode her bike in was in an accident with broken arm and lots of scrapes due to an inattentive driver. I drive in on days I am running late or have to drive my kid in, otherwise will walk.     

Tass

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2019, 11:05:32 AM »
I've had to swerve out of the way of drivers who feel they're going slow enough to justify a quick text, but are still moving at 15 mph.

I got a horn to solve that problem.

Most of my commute is through a pedestrian college campus, though - in that context, I'M the fast, dangerous vehicle.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2019, 07:28:03 PM »
It depends on where “suckas” is located.

darkadams00

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2019, 09:02:59 PM »
I bike almost daily in all temps and weather. I never bring it up, but it does come up naturally in conversations when people see my bag, bike, rain jacket, gloves, etc. Some regulars in the coffee shop in my building start the conversation now with "How was the ride in this morning?"

When asked why, I usually gauge my response on the tone, the person, the time, etc. If there's real interest, we'll talk a bit. If not, or if just rhetorical, I'll give a one-liner. My go to reasons when really discussing with someone are:
(a) I saved a bunch of money by dropping the second car (good for wallet)
(b) I like the daily exercise/routine, and cycling gives it to me almost for free (good for body)
(c) biking in gets me going (workout), and biking home winds me down (cruising) (good for wife)
(d) every time I ride my bike on an errand, the errand feels more like a vacation activity. I never feel that way in the car (good for mood)

BTW--Most toddlers/small kids also thrive off (d). Put them in the car, and it's just a boring errand. Put them on the bike, and it's playtime, especially if you're able to use a front/rear seat or a cargo bike and not stuff them in a trailer.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #81 on: August 22, 2019, 10:18:55 PM »
(d) is still working on my 8-going-on-9-year-old, just FYI. He's mad on days I didn't drive home from the office and then get my bike out to pick him up (without his bike) so that he could ride on the back of the cargo bike.

Just Joe

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #82 on: August 26, 2019, 03:47:19 PM »
I'll second (third? fourth?) exploring your potential bicycle route. We moved and I felt sad that I would no longer be able to bicycle to work. Then I started double checking the roads between work and home using Google Maps. Did alot of street views to double check the route. Lo and behold there was a series of country roads that took me home safely. In the end aside from one hill - it is overall easier than my previous route that required me to ride right through the busiest part of town. On most days riding the new route I might be passed by less than a half dozen cars.

The route is much more indirect but who cares. I have an ebike. There are a few very steep hills. Who cares, I have an ebike. I'm not crawling the hill at 2 mph, I can climb it at 8-9 mph and not dent my range much and still get a workout while minimizing the amount of time I feel vulnerable and slow on the hills. On my pedal only other bike I hate that vulnerable feeling when I am crawling up a hill with cars zooming by or I need to walk up a hill.

Over time despite the help from the battery/motor my fitness improved though it has backslided this summer b/c I'm not riding enough due to other responsibilities.

When I'm more fit, I'm riding more on lowest boost. My speeds climb. I race the clock home. The first trip to work might take an hour but a month later might only take 50 minutes and later 45 minutes. My speeds are still no where near the speeds of the carbon fiber Lance Armstrong lookalikes but whatever.

Several of us at work ride. Nobody talks about why they ride except that they like to ride. One of the folks is riding huge distances on the weekends like across the state. All smiles.

We're fixing up my teenager's bike now which is a little neglected and simply needs maintenance. Teen wants the freedom riding a bike around town can deliver. Teen is old enough to do it safely.

GreenToTheCore

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2019, 05:51:12 PM »
Riding my bike to work gives me a lot of curious attention from my coworkers with most of them wanting to know my motivations for commuting by bike. I made this post because my the reasons I normally cite (I cycle for fun anyway, avoid traffic jams, save the planet, etc.) don't really seem to resonate.

Good clarification. This seems like a great positive, actionable question to address. Thank you for bringing it up.

I thought of one: It makes me a happier person.  --> then people can wonder if it would make them happier.
Quite different from "It makes me happy"  --> people might think that biking currently doesn't make them happy so your reason doesn't apply to them.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2019, 07:41:02 AM »
Just found out last week that I've apparently inspired a co-worker to start e-biking in (for the majority of his commute).  He is someone who enjoys biking, but always figured that he lived too far away to make it work.  Didn't do much to state my case; just answered questions - enthusiastically - when asked and showed up unerringly in my bike gear.  He apparently figured out that he could actually save time by e-biking along the beach rather than sitting in traffic in his particularly loathsome commute. 

Just Joe

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2019, 11:13:12 AM »
Gotta say something a little off-topic. I've recently noticed how few people ride with blinky lights - even near dark. Looks like a very efficient way to be un-noticed and be run-over. Am watching a guy on YouTube even riding in  near white out conditions in Alaska - and no lighting at all. Why take the chance?

Tass

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2019, 11:18:36 AM »
All the convincing I need to wear lights at night is the experience of driving past an unlit cyclist. They're completely invisible!

I usually leave my lights on solid (not blinking) at night, though - more like you would expect car head/taillights to be. Rear and front light solid, a light-up snap bracelet on left wrist and ankle (helps make hand signals visible, plus visibility from the side), and once I get batteries replaced, a blinky helmet back light. I could probably still stand to get a reflective vest, but I've only biked in the dark a handful of times all year.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2019, 11:21:52 AM »
I think that the no lights mistake is often made by inexperienced people who don't really think through their situation very well.  Cycling safety is a combined effort between other vehicles and the cyclist.  It's not possible to stay safe on a bike without taking into account what others can see.

Arbitrage

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2019, 11:45:30 AM »
All the convincing I need to wear lights at night is the experience of driving past an unlit cyclist. They're completely invisible!


Agreed.  I think they're insane...yet strikingly common.

nereo

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2019, 11:53:10 AM »
All the convincing I need to wear lights at night is the experience of driving past an unlit cyclist. They're completely invisible!


Agreed.  I think they're insane...yet strikingly common.

With the proliferation of LEDs, bike lights (the kind designed to let you be seen) are incredibly cheap and super light.  Like $6 cheap and about an ounce. Carry a spare (or two) in your bag just in case.

One mistake people often make is to assume they don't need a light at dawn or dusk because "I can see well enough". Just because you can see doesn't mean the distracted driver turning into your lane will see you. Most car/bike collisions occur then.

Be seen.  Be safe.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #90 on: September 06, 2019, 04:23:14 PM »
Today I saw a guy riding down the street with his shoulder pressing on a special handlebar extension. He had no arms. Next time someone complains riding a bike is too difficult, think about this guy.

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #91 on: September 06, 2019, 04:44:15 PM »
Today I saw a guy riding down the street with his shoulder pressing on a special handlebar extension. He had no arms. Next time someone complains riding a bike is too difficult, think about this guy.

There's a guy in my hood who has no feet who rides a customized recumbent bike and wears a jersey that says "defooted but not defeated"

Just Joe

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Re: How do you state your case for bicycling to suckas?
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2019, 08:05:54 AM »
Today I saw a guy riding down the street with his shoulder pressing on a special handlebar extension. He had no arms. Next time someone complains riding a bike is too difficult, think about this guy.

I have so many questions...