How Do You Make High COL Work?

[user43423]

Curious to hear of tips/hacks from other members. Right now, I bike to work, cook most meals, and rent a room on Airbnb to subsidize my housing costs. The higher salary that comes from living in a high COL area more than offsets my increase in expenses, but I'm curious what others do to reduce expenses while living in an expensive place.

[kewper]

I'm curious where you live and how much you pay for rent.  I just left NYC where we were paying $1850 for a two-bedroom in Harlem.  Still was too expensive for us.

[chasesfish]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

[2Birds1Stone]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

^ this right here. Aside from housing. I don't think it makes TOO much of a difference. especially since you can not own a car and probably make up the difference. A place like NYC also has a LOT of free entertainment if you seek it out.

Sure you could be hitting up The Spotted Pig for a $30 burger, and going out for $25 cocktails every weekend. There are plenty of awesome things to do and see for free or very little money.

I Grew up in NYC and live on Long Island. So out here we still pay some pretty damn high rent/mortgage prices but need a car to get around on top of it.

[iamlindoro]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

+1, couldn't agree more.  I live in a HCOL area, and I pay a FORTUNE for housing-- enough to pay for a massive house in even a slightly less insane place, but I live in a small condo.  That said, I am able to save as much every year as I would be *making* (before taxes!) in a medium sized city.  I don't see how I could go anywhere else and put this much away.

[Eric]

My HCOL area (Silicon Valley) has gorgeous year round weather, so we don't have to run the heat in the winter nor the AC in the summer.  So while the rent is certainly higher, having little to no utility bill helps a great deal.  Plus, said weather is very conducive to outdoor activity, which is generally free.

[Unique User]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

To a certain degree I agree.  However, when I lived in a Colorado ski town several years ago, you had to drive 40+ miles to get to a grocery store where milk was less than $6 a gallon and all other prices were about that ridiculous including housing. 

[fiscalphile]

I disagree that housing is the only added expense in NYC- let us not forget taxes, especially the city tax.

I keep cost down here by: 1) setting up my housing/ public transport in such a way that I do not need a car, 2) resisting restaurant/ take out culture and cooking at home, 3) finding cheap specialty grocery stores, 4) entertaining myself with neighborhood walks, parks, free museums/ public events/ festivals, 5) buying necessities ahead of time on Amazon to avoid higher prices in-store here.

Also, besides from higher salary, my SO and I take advantage of extra income opportunities only available because we live in the city. 

[MsPeacock]

My current high COL area - Washington DC - housing is crazy expensive (imo).

Hawaii - former high COL area - *everything was crazy expensive: gas, housing, groceries, electric, etc. etc.

So - I think it depends. But housing is hard to work around because you have to live *somewhere*. The farther out suburbs are cheaper, but saddle you w/ the cost of a commute, and often in a community where you have to drive to get groceries, etc.

Mostly I make it work by making enough to deal with the COL. I'd love to move but I am stuck here, unfortunately.

[Gerard]

I actually live in high COL and low COL areas at the same time, thanks to working far from family and friends. My high area is actually, as others point out, cheaper for everything except housing, thanks to scale and location and immigrants.
So it balances out, right? No, actually. I enjoy living in less house than most people, but that's  hard to do in my "low" COL area, as there are far fewer small/rental units available, and most of those are bad.
So, as long as I avoid fashionable neighbourhoods, the "mustachian dividend" for my lifestyle choices is greater in my high-COL area!
Of course, I could optimize further by putting my high-COL place up on airbnb when I'm not there. Or sharing my too-large low-COL place.

[retireatbirth]

I disagree that housing is the only added expense in NYC- let us not forget taxes, especially the city tax.

I keep cost down here by: 1) setting up my housing/ public transport in such a way that I do not need a car, 2) resisting restaurant/ take out culture and cooking at home, 3) finding cheap specialty grocery stores, 4) entertaining myself with neighborhood walks, parks, free museums/ public events/ festivals, 5) buying necessities ahead of time on Amazon to avoid higher prices in-store here.

Also, besides from higher salary, my SO and I take advantage of extra income opportunities only available because we live in the city.

What are the extra income opportunities you take advantage of?

[Pooperman]

By mitigating the housing expense as much as possible. Moved out of NY into NJ. The commute is about 15 minutes more, but the monthly rent is $450 less

[alice76]

+1 extra income opportunities. The hourly tutoring rates in NYC are over $100/hour for an established writing or math teacher.

My husband and I have decided to raise our kids right on the UES- no car and my husband is the only one with more than a five block walking commute. Our rent, while very reasonable for an UES "junior 4" (900 sq. ft.), is astronomical by national standards.

Nonetheless, our relatively high income for traditionally lower income white collar jobs allows our net worth to grow at a rapid rate. It's possible to enjoy NYC's food for low-cost and culture for free.

[dude]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

Oh, I can tell you from experience this is NOT the case with NYC.  Before moving to Boston, I lived there for 8 years.  First -- TAXES.  You get hit not only with the state income tax (it was @7% when I was there), but also the City income tax (@4% when I was there).  Gas -- currently, gas is @$2.49/gal, with cheaper spots if you look around, in Boston.  In NYC, it's closer to $3.00, and more in some places.  TOLLS - the fkng tolls!  Want to leave the City for the weekend?  Depending on which way you are heading, it's at least $7.50 (Triborough and all tunnels) and as high as $15 (Verrazano), though the rates are discounted for EZ-Pass.  And yeah, HOUSING.  Insane.  Average studio (<500sf) in Manhattan is $2500.  Not to mention parking (meter, lots, tickets) and other assorted costs.

I took a paycut to come to Boston that ended up being a pay raise because of the difference in COL.  Much as I love a lot of things about NYC, I wouldn't go back to live there for all the marbles.

[mskyle]

But all of yo

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

Oh, I can tell you from experience this is NOT the case with NYC.  Before moving to Boston, I lived there for 8 years.  First -- TAXES.  You get hit not only with the state income tax (it was @7% when I was there), but also the City income tax (@4% when I was there).  Gas -- currently, gas is @$2.49/gal, with cheaper spots if you look around, in Boston.  In NYC, it's closer to $3.00, and more in some places.  TOLLS - the fkng tolls!  Want to leave the City for the weekend?  Depending on which way you are heading, it's at least $7.50 (Triborough and all tunnels) and as high as $15 (Verrazano), though the rates are discounted for EZ-Pass.  And yeah, HOUSING.  Insane.  Average studio (<500sf) in Manhattan is $2500.  Not to mention parking (meter, lots, tickets) and other assorted costs.

I took a paycut to come to Boston that ended up being a pay raise because of the difference in COL.  Much as I love a lot of things about NYC, I wouldn't go back to live there for all the marbles.

Did you notice that all of the non-housing extra costs you mention are related to driving?

I mean, gas prices in the city... why are you buying gas in NYC? Why are you driving so much in the city that you have to buy gas in the city? I live in Boston, and the gas prices within 5 miles of my house are 40-50 cents more expensive than the prices on the North Shore where my family lives. But I really only drive when I leave the city, so I just buy gas the first time I see a good price, and/or the last good price on my way back. I buy "city price" gas maybe once or twice a year. Even if it was two dollars more expensive, it would cost me like $20-50 a year. 

I mean, I can see it in DC, where people seem to drive a lot more to get to places in the city. But complaining about car costs in NYC seems really weird.

[mak1277]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

I disagree.  We moved from St. Louis, MO to the DC Metro area and found that almost everything (groceries, utilities, gas, etc.) was 10-15% more expensive after the move.

[2Birds1Stone]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

Oh, I can tell you from experience this is NOT the case with NYC.  Before moving to Boston, I lived there for 8 years.  First -- TAXES.  You get hit not only with the state income tax (it was @7% when I was there), but also the City income tax (@4% when I was there).  Gas -- currently, gas is @$2.49/gal, with cheaper spots if you look around, in Boston.  In NYC, it's closer to $3.00, and more in some places.  TOLLS - the fkng tolls!  Want to leave the City for the weekend?  Depending on which way you are heading, it's at least $7.50 (Triborough and all tunnels) and as high as $15 (Verrazano), though the rates are discounted for EZ-Pass.  And yeah, HOUSING.  Insane.  Average studio (<500sf) in Manhattan is $2500.  Not to mention parking (meter, lots, tickets) and other assorted costs.

I took a paycut to come to Boston that ended up being a pay raise because of the difference in COL.  Much as I love a lot of things about NYC, I wouldn't go back to live there for all the marbles.

I'm from NYC and I cannot imagine owning a car.

On top of that, if you are wiling to live somewhere further north, rents can be much cheaper. One of my best friends is going to Columbia for his masters and splits a nice spacious 2 bedroom apartment with a room mate in Morningside Heights for $1950/month.

[Vilgan]

I dealt with a big part of the cost by finding a nice cheaper area within my HCOL city. We paid 400k for a house that is infinitely larger/nicer/better in every way and a 15 minute transit commute from downtown versus spending 800k for a fixer upper like my friend who lives in a nicer area. As a side benefit, food is also cheaper here since small family grocery stores and a cheap larger asian grocery store have prices that are significantly less than what can be found in the "nicer" parts of town.

My expenses as a married guy in Seattle paying 50% of the 15 year mortgage/other monthly stuff is 25k and that's with a decent amount of hobby/splurge money.

[user43423]

I too agree that housing is really the only major cost increase. Everything else is offset by the increase in salary and decrease in transportation costs (both monetarily and time-wise).

This thread got me thinking, and another component I think people don't account for when weighing city vs suburban life is health. I am FAR more physically active in my day to day in a city than I am in the suburbs. Not having a car is part of that, but I also walk/bike more places since everything is more centrally located. I also need to walk to the subway station which is never as close as walking to one's car in a driveway.

Over a lifetime, being physically active is a huge advantage, and will go a long way towards reducing the risk of incurring large medical costs from things like heart disease, diabetes, etc. I actually wrote a blog post about it if anyone is interested: http://www.valueiswhatyouget.com/blog/2015/3/15/city-vs-suburb

[sloof70]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

It really is. Big cities have big competition for real estate. But most other stuff is only marginally higher to compensate for higher commercial leases and wages (which is offset somewhat by greater foot traffic due to density). Groceries, cars, consumer goods like electronics and clothing, all of these things will be relatively stable around the country because their cost is dependent upon where they are produced. The only real difference is foods that are bountiful in certain areas and therefore cheaper locally at harvest. Healthcare varies, but is less noticeable to the younger, healthy, insured populace. Transportation is so different depending on if you're an urban bus-rider or a rural truck-driver or anywhere in between. Entertainment, which is everything from eating out in restaurants, nightlife, concerts and films, and other recreation, tends to cost a bit more, but those are non-essentials and can be viewed as the cost of living in a vibrant cultural center.

So yeah, housing, a third of most American's expenses, is the only real difference between metropolis and village.

[fiscalphile]

I disagree that housing is the only added expense in NYC- let us not forget taxes, especially the city tax.

I keep cost down here by: 1) setting up my housing/ public transport in such a way that I do not need a car, 2) resisting restaurant/ take out culture and cooking at home, 3) finding cheap specialty grocery stores, 4) entertaining myself with neighborhood walks, parks, free museums/ public events/ festivals, 5) buying necessities ahead of time on Amazon to avoid higher prices in-store here.

Also, besides from higher salary, my SO and I take advantage of extra income opportunities only available because we live in the city.

What are the extra income opportunities you take advantage of?

Mostly my fiance- he works a cushy night job at a swanky private club for extra $ and free dinners.  He is working crazy hours but the night job is low-stress and he is taking down his student loans SO QUICKLY.  As for me, private families will pay more here for my services (private tutoring) than I could get when I lived in the Midwest.

[theonethatgotaway]

Cost of living is relative to how you are living.

[Livewell]

My HCOL area (Silicon Valley) has gorgeous year round weather, so we don't have to run the heat in the winter nor the AC in the summer.  So while the rent is certainly higher, having little to no utility bill helps a great deal.  Plus, said weather is very conducive to outdoor activity, which is generally free.

We are getting some of that fine weather right now!

if you don't get too crazy on housing (relatively speaking) then the upside of earnings and job choice more than make up for it.  SV remains a great place to build wealth, if you live frugally...   

[NorCal]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

[theonethatgotaway]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

This is what keeps us from the bay area. We are a high one income family and live in NYC. I read Google just signed a large lease in downtown Austin (200,000 sq ft). I was wondering if it's due to the nature of COL in SF for potential low six fig employees?

[Livewell]

my in-laws are in Dallas, and at one point we looked at moving to TX.

Upside:  Great housing at low costs, area we were looking at very family friendly (parks, water facilities, good schools), no state income tax

Downside:  higher utility bills and home insurance (about 5x more than CA due to weather), good jobs were not as plentiful, spread out (more car time), weather sucks most of the year, limited outdoor activities

On balance we are ahead despite the HCOL in CA

We did DINK it for a while though - agree with others that dual income is really required to make it work (quickly) in CA.   I also think a great place for singles that can live cheap(er) and build wealth before moving on.   I might have done that if I had not met my wife and decided to knock out some kids.  :)

[Livewell]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

This is what keeps us from the bay area. We are a high one income family and live in NYC. I read Google just signed a large lease in downtown Austin (200,000 sq ft). I was wondering if it's due to the nature of COL in SF for potential low six fig employees?

Google is still investing heavily in SV  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/google-unveils-plan-for-new-corporate-campus/?_r=0

[minimalist]

I live with roommates to bring my rent, utilities, and services to around $550 a month. Groceries here seem to cost the same as a low COL area and most of my meals are homemade. I usually pregame and/or bring a flask to save on going out, which is outrageously expensive in DC (a $1.50 beer or shot from a store costs $6-8 plus tip at a bar). I drive very few miles, so gas is only around $20 a month. I could get rid of my car for additional savings on insurance, maintenance, gas, registration, etc., and use the Metro instead if I really wanted to.

[mm1970]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

plus taxes
plus childcare (in my experience).  Because, you know, housing/ rental costs are higher, so operating costs are also higher

[gimp]

I've found housing is the only real increase in costs.  The bigger the city, the better your access to Costco.  If they don't sell it, you probably don't need it

YES. Thank you. I've lived and worked in Boston, Portland OR, and the SF bay area in the past several years. Housing was the only real difference for me. Gas in California adds up, sure... to, like, a couple hundred extra per year. Rent on the other hand is thousands more.

This is an issue if you don't earn much in the first place. $30k to $35k is a 16-17% increase but the extra rent will suck away most of that. On the other hand, $80k to $100k for a tech job will see you with more dollars at the end of the day.

With that said, the reverse is also a real option: $100k to $80k but now you can buy a house for $250k instead of literally 4x as much.

So it depends on your place in life. High COL is much easier when all of your expenses are optional - even rent can go from living in a small place in a weird place with flatmates, up to living in a brand new apartment right next to your huge employer by yourself. When you're married with a brace of kids and a flock of pets, your choices collapse very quickly into very few options.

[HopefulMustache]

Just want to chime in that I find it very interesting that so many people are seconding chasefish's statement. I would have guessed that in LCOL areas food and gas/maintenance costs (ie: the usual #2 and #3 expenses after housing) were also notably lower, but I guess Costco+cooking and avoiding driving would eliminate much of that.

[alice76]

Yes! Agreed that child care is ridiculously expensive in NYC. I can't believe I forgot about that one...

[Pooperman]

I just calculated it, and I make about $20/hr commuting from NJ to NYC for work just on housing difference alone. The other stuff about equals out, but damn does commuting pay. (I assumed rent would be $1k higher in NYC and that I soend 50 hours a month commuting).

[Vilgan]

I just calculated it, and I make about $20/hr commuting from NJ to NYC for work just on housing difference alone. The other stuff about equals out, but damn does commuting pay. (I assumed rent would be $1k higher in NYC and that I soend 50 hours a month commuting).

I assume this is transit commuting, but about all the other costs of NJ? I assume you own a vehicle? That seems like a hefty expense that can be avoided by living in NYC.

[NorCal]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

This is what keeps us from the bay area. We are a high one income family and live in NYC. I read Google just signed a large lease in downtown Austin (200,000 sq ft). I was wondering if it's due to the nature of COL in SF for potential low six fig employees?

Google is still investing heavily in SV  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/google-unveils-plan-for-new-corporate-campus/?_r=0

My former employer is a large household Silicon Valley name.  They're doing a similar initiative to Google.  Typically, the big SV companies will grow their core business (engineering, finance, business operations) in the valley, but outsource more of the back office operations (HR, accounts payable, IT systems) to locations with more reasonable costs.

[Vilgan]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

This is what keeps us from the bay area. We are a high one income family and live in NYC. I read Google just signed a large lease in downtown Austin (200,000 sq ft). I was wondering if it's due to the nature of COL in SF for potential low six fig employees?

Google is still investing heavily in SV  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/google-unveils-plan-for-new-corporate-campus/?_r=0

My former employer is a large household Silicon Valley name.  They're doing a similar initiative to Google.  Typically, the big SV companies will grow their core business (engineering, finance, business operations) in the valley, but outsource more of the back office operations (HR, accounts payable, IT systems) to locations with more reasonable costs.

Pretty sure the big expansions by Google and its ilk to Seattle and Austin are not "back office operations".

[theonethatgotaway]

Sil(ly)con Valley works for us as a dual-income couple.  We would absolutely leave if living on a single income.

Housing is the most noticeable difference in cost, but taxes are significantly higher as well.  Particularly if you're dual income with two good jobs.

Gas is always more expensive here (mostly due to CA laws) and food can be more expensive, depending on what you're buying.

There are some good hobbies you can pick up at a low cost.  I personally make wine and do some light woodworking.  It's also a great area for biking, hiking, surfing, rock climbing, running, and watching crazy people.  All can be done without too much investment.

This is what keeps us from the bay area. We are a high one income family and live in NYC. I read Google just signed a large lease in downtown Austin (200,000 sq ft). I was wondering if it's due to the nature of COL in SF for potential low six fig employees?

Google is still investing heavily in SV  http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/google-unveils-plan-for-new-corporate-campus/?_r=0

My former employer is a large household Silicon Valley name.  They're doing a similar initiative to Google.  Typically, the big SV companies will grow their core business (engineering, finance, business operations) in the valley, but outsource more of the back office operations (HR, accounts payable, IT systems) to locations with more reasonable costs.

Pretty sure the big expansions by Google and its ilk to Seattle and Austin are not "back office operations".

Well, I know Austin houses a few of the big SV 'satellite' offices for primarily sales and customer service. I would think Seattle is still the high demand/higher paying engineering type jobs. Anyone know if Austin is commanding theses same roles?

[Zikoris]

I find denial works quite well. The second you resign yourself to paying market rates for things because "I just live in an expensive city and that's what things cost!", you're screwed.

For example, I simply refuse to accept paying what I consider too much for things like housing, food, etc. In my mind, Vancouver landlords who charge $1500/month for a studio suite are simply greedy pieces of %$@^ who I refuse to have dealings with, rather than the prudent investors in tune with the rental market that they would consider themselves.

[2ndTimer]

The higher the COL, the better the pickings for us bottom feeders.  Yard sales, thrift stores, and grocery store mark downs were all excellent in Fancy W Seattle. 

[theonethatgotaway]

The higher the COL, the better the pickings for us bottom feeders.  Yard sales, thrift stores, and grocery store mark downs were all excellent in Fancy W Seattle.

LOL this is so true. A few years ago I sublet my studio to some girl fresh off the boat from France. I came back a week later to a fully furnished apartment. She found everything (high quality wood pieces) left outside of buildings.

[BlueHouse]

My current high COL area - Washington DC - housing is crazy expensive (imo).

Hawaii - former high COL area - *everything was crazy expensive: gas, housing, groceries, electric, etc. etc.

So - I think it depends. But housing is hard to work around because you have to live *somewhere*. The farther out suburbs are cheaper, but saddle you w/ the cost of a commute, and often in a community where you have to drive to get groceries, etc.

Mostly I make it work by making enough to deal with the COL. I'd love to move but I am stuck here, unfortunately.

Current HCOL = DC. 
Housing - Much more expensive
Income tax - WAY more expensive
Property tax -much less expensive than Virginia or even Georgia
Groceries - seem to be more expensive, but then I buy from a lot of farmers' markets to support the local growers
Cost of doing business in DC == killing me.  I am considering moving back to virginia because of the cost of having a small independent business located in DC.  But then they get me anyway because I work here, so I'd have to pay taxes because of how my company is structured (S-Corp).  They really stick it to small business owners. 

[mm1970]

The higher the COL, the better the pickings for us bottom feeders.  Yard sales, thrift stores, and grocery store mark downs were all excellent in Fancy W Seattle.

Man, not around here.  Garage sales, thrift stores, etc. are crazy expensive!!  People selling stuff - high end clothing, shoes, purses, or even mid-range children's clothing, are expecting to get 1/3 to 1/2 the original purchase price.

If I'm buying something used (I admit, not into the designer anything) like jeans for me or the kids, I'm not interested in paying $3 (toddler), $5 (kid) or $10 (me), when a decent sale will get them new for $5, $12, and $20.

[BlueHouse]

The higher the COL, the better the pickings for us bottom feeders.  Yard sales, thrift stores, and grocery store mark downs were all excellent in Fancy W Seattle.

Man, not around here.  Garage sales, thrift stores, etc. are crazy expensive!!  People selling stuff - high end clothing, shoes, purses, or even mid-range children's clothing, are expecting to get 1/3 to 1/2 the original purchase price.

Good point. When I lived in Northern Virginia and participated in Freecycle, I noticed some very big differences between towns that were similar economically and very close to each other.  Loudoun County VA has a Costco and a big supply of government contractors.  The freecycle group for Loudoun County has an enormous quantity of items that are practically new and in great condition. But if you list something to give away, hardly anybody wants it.  Costco makes everything so cheap, that IMO, everything else becomes practically disposable (including furniture, clothing, cars, etc.)  6 miles away, Reston VA is an older community that was developed in the 60s with a lot of people with more "hippie" sensibilities.  The types of things people try to get rid of are 1/2 eaten boxes of kashi, home-made rain barrels, etc.  So I used to use Reston Freecycle to list everything I needed to get rid of, and Loudoun freecycle to get all new stuff.  So close, yet worlds apart.