How do you deal with the HOARDERS in your life??

[ObviouslyNotAGolfer]

God I hate hoarders!!! My wife and I (in our late 40s) have large collections of books, LPs, CDs, and various small, packable souvenirs from world travel, but they are in nice bookcases, record cases, etc. and are not in the way. If anything, these enhance the appearance of our house. I am not the most organized person in the world, but I abhor anything bordering on hoarding.

Now, my wife and I are at the stage of our lives where we are increasingly looking out for our aging parents, some of whom have major health issues, both mentally and physically. And they are all hoarders! Their lack of ability to manage their possessions is increasingly becoming our problem--costing time, money, and exasperation!!

They are not as bad as the really crazy ones you see on some of these hoarder TV shows, but still enough to cause problems! Is there something with that generation--people born in the early 40s??? Both my parents and in-laws have an entire bedroom filled floor to ceiling with crap they haven't looked at or used in 30+ years! They also have too much crap in other parts of the house that need disposing of.

I recently hired a caretaker for my parents (who are not always at home), and she thinks we (she and I) just need to get in there and just trash a bunch of stuff without them being around to debate about every last gdamn thing. I respect that my parents own all that crap and need to have a say on what stays and what goes, but they are both far enough down the road of forgetfulness and lack of self-sufficiency (possibly dementia) that I feel it is time to intervene. For both my parents and in-laws, I seriously doubt they would miss 80% of the stuff we might disappear.

Do you have any suggestions for services I can hire, and how to finesse this situation? My parents are actually pretty low energy these days, so I don't expect much in the way of screaming matches or the like, but they can still be pretty difficult about this stuff.

How do you deal with this???

[SmartyCat]

Are they likely to move to a retirement community and/or downsize in the near future? The deal I made with my mom when she moved out of the house I grew up in was that anything that didn't move with her, I would take care of sorting / donating / selling / tossing. It was a huge project, and I frankly wasn't happy about it. Over the years before she moved I offered several times to help sort, and DS and I did some decluttering. But really? My mom was never decisive, never has been over a lifetime, and wasn't going to magically become so in her 80s or 90s. My parents didn't buy much, but they really didn't get rid of a thing.

Unfortunately, inertia is a powerful force.

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[deborah]

I’ve found with my parents (in their 90s, on walkers, so a lot older than your parents) that they have recently become more willing to let go of their possessions. Possessions have become a burden to them. Mum likes having a fridge with not much in it so she doesn’t need to make so many choices when she wants to make a meal. It’s getting to the stage where I worry that they don’t have enough.

However, they own their possessions. Taking them away is theft if your parents haven’t agreed to it. Some years ago, my parents wanted fewer possessions, but didn’t know how to go about getting rid of things. They wanted me to take things - I might value their precious belongings, but others wouldn’t. I decided that I would take everything they wanted to give me. It was double handling, because I had to take stuff home and then dispose of it, but it did work to some extent, and it got to the stage that each time I visited, I was offered more stuff.

But that was only the beginning. They both tired easily, so we couldn’t do a whole room. Also, it’s very difficult to make too many decisions when you’re elderly - they would reach a stage where everything became overwhelming, so any decisions already made to throw things away were rescinded. I would leave it until the next visit. Then I started asking if there was a cupboard or some part of a room that was difficult for them and needed sorting. Each time I visited we would tackle one small thing. Gradually things got to the level where they were happy with what they had.

[former player]

I agree with Deborah that this has to be tackled very carefully and slowly.

You could try presenting the clear-out as an opportunity - eg "I was thinking that it might be easier for you to have [x ] all kept in one place and that the spare bedroom might be a good place for it/it might be easier to use Y if Z wasn't in the way: what do you think?" 

The other option is to have a plan for things leaving the house - eg "the women's shelter needs household goods and I wondered if you could spare [bedding/kitchen stuff/toiletries - the one near me takes anything of that nature that helps someone with nothing set up a new home]".  It's actually quite hard to find homes for things you no longer want or need but don't want to just throw away: if you have a good story about where things your parent's don't use can go to be useful to someone else then that does a lot of mental work for them and could help them feel better about those things leaving their house.

The other thing to remember when people get old and mentally or physically frail is just how hard it is to do things that we younger people take for granted.  Your parents probably don't have the spare mental energy to do a lot of thinking about this, or spare physical energy to do anything about it in practice, so you are going to have to do both the mental and physical work for them.  Don't do it at a pace that is faster than they can keep up with, though.

[BikeFanatic]

For my parents it just became too exhausting to go through stuff, so when they were hospitalized I did get rid of non personal items. I donated several trunks full of towels some from the 80’s and I found they had stuff from aged parents like records that I never touched.

They were a little miffed, but 2 years later they let me do it again and thanked me for the first effort. I am happy to say after I got them started they were less overwhelmed and able to deciliter quite a bit after wards. YMMV, this generation saves bank statements from accounts closed years ago, you may have to assist them with shredding and that sort of thing.

[Bee21]

My parents never get rid of anything. It got to the point when their place is so full of stuff (not junk, everything is still usable) that i could barely move around. It took me years to persuade them to start getting rid of their unused stuff. I live on a different conttinent, so there is no way I would be able to keep anything.  So, every year I visit, I get rid of a few things (with their permission). Every week I write to them something sneaky about my own decluttering efforts in order to motivate them. They finally started getting rid of stuff.  Very slowly,  but there's some sort of progress.

I actively encourage them to give away unused items. Clothes, books are the easiest to start with. Duplicates. Broken items. In my experience they hold onto items because they don't know how to dispose of it.  Or it was expensive but was never used (ie kitchen gadgets). Or they inherited it. Or it is still usable, but they have 5 others. It is a total minefield and very exhausting to deal with this situation.  They accuse me of being wasteful for chucking perfectly good things, but whatever. I put the pot with the broken handle in the bin, and my father removes it, because we can use it to melt wax in it....he has 20 perfectly good pots for that purpose.

But, don't give up. Encourage them gently, and help them. You can sneakily get rid of the absolute rubbish, but the bottom line is, it is their stuff, and you have to respect their space. It will be hell to clean up once they are gone, but I decided that I have to stop worrying about that scenario right now. I will deal with it when the time comes. In the meanwhile I keep reminding them to stop holding onto things they don't use. That's all.

[kina]

If your parents were born in the early 40's, then they are children of parents who went through the Great Depression, a time of great suffering and lack of everything. (So yes, they are part of a demographic that is like this). Although your parents didn't live it, they heard about it and saw the effect it had on their parents. You can be sure they learned many lessons along the way. One of those lessons is to keep everything.

Going behind your parents' backs to clean our their place would not only be disrespectful and illegal (as deborah pointed out) but could affect their mental stability since they will learn they cannot trust you. If they are not endangering themselves, leave it alone. If you can gently and lovingly help them loosen their hold on stuff (as others have posted here) that's great. If you come in with an attitude of, "I know what's best for you", I doubt that's going to go well.

[MayDay]

As others have touched on, a lot depends on why. For my in laws, it is 100% laziness. It's easier to chuck it in the basement (which is absolutely full of junk) then deal with disposing of it. So they don't mind if we do a clean up. I clean out their fridge every visit and it is full again of old expired crap the next time 🤮

My grandparents dealt much better if we grandkids took their beloved possessions. So we took stuff and then promptly recycled or tossed it.

It is beyond frustrating. You have my sympathy. My own parents aren't hoarders but they have a large house and they certainly aren't minimalist. By the time they downsize or die their children will all be well established and not want it. I would have killed for a lot of it when I was just starting out at age 22! But now I don't want any of it!

[Travis]

My MIL (mid 70s) is a bit of a hoarder. She's huge into gift giving throughout the year, and DW says "this is how she shows love." What it also means is that she accumulates things because either she or someone else might need it later. Thankfully she focuses on second-hand stores and only buys when the item is on significant sale, but it's still more stuff.  DW grew up in a house four bedroom house with a ton of floor and storage space. The in laws have been empty nesters for close to a decade, and in that time my MIL has expanded to fill every closet and cabinet in the house with clothing and "stuff."  At Christmas she insisted on saving every gift bag for next year despite already having a closet full.  Her hoarding ways also means if you give the slightest hint that you like something (clothing, food, music) it'll be there waiting for you the next time you visit. I don't fully understand the psychology of it, but this attitude also extends to the fridge and freezer always being topped off with food even though a significant amount of it will go bad before they get around to eating it.

Anyways, I sympathize with your position.  We don't confront her about this directly too often because of some family drama that makes this part of her lifestyle a "safe space" for her.  We do our best to limit or mitigate it though.  I've become very good about giving neutral answers to just about anything she asks to prevent her from going out and buying stuff for me.  If she's going to be gone for a few hours, DW and I will clean out her fridge and throw away what is clearly rotten. She knows what we're doing and is appreciative because she knows its a blind spot, but we just don't talk about it.  For the bigger part of her hoarding habits there's not much else we can do but be patient.  On occasion we can nudge her into getting rid of a few things by twisting a discussion into getting her to talk about her "big plans" for a particular room knowing that she'll express frustration at how difficult it is to keep that room clean.  We'll drop a hint or two about a particular piece of furniture that is low-hanging fruit.  One time we mentioned how much we liked a book case and she offered to send it home with us.  We took it and Craigslisted it.  We live out of state or out of the country so it's not a technique we can use very often.  Her children have mentally inventoried the house several times and they've already discussed what's going to happen to its contents when the time comes.  We want them to live another 20 prosperous years, but every year they're having more trouble moving around and it's twice as much house as they need full of stuff that they don't need.

[kanga1622]

I DREAD the day we have to go through FIL’s things. It took him close to 10 years to empty out the storage units after he moved several states. He actually paid to move all this stuff rather than get rid of it! He truly saves everything he thinks might have a use at some point in the future.

Having cleaned out my parents’ home after my dad passed, I know how much junk gets left behind by the average person. And how much of it was not even wanted at the auction. It took all 5 of the siblings, most of our spouses, and some of the older grandkids a full week to empty the house. And we kept mostly sentimental items like photos, wall hangings, or a favorite blanket that Mom had made. All the furniture and appliances were sold at auction as we were all established in our own homes.

True hoarders will only accumulate even more if you clean out their stash. They need to be involved in the process somewhat or give permission for you to start removing items.

[damnedbee]

Hoarding is not about stuff. It's about a person's psychological connection to that stuff and what it represents to them. You can't tackle the problem by focusing on the stuff. You have to work with a qualified professional on the underlying issues.

[mtnrider]

Hoarding is not about stuff. It's about a person's psychological connection to that stuff and what it represents to them. You can't tackle the problem by focusing on the stuff. You have to work with a qualified professional on the underlying issues.

It took me two decades of heartache to realize this.  :(

Revisionist History just had an episode called Dragon Psychology that explores the edges of Hoarding Disorder from a different perspective.  You can find a lot more depth on the web - for example, the Children of Hoarders forum.

[Kris]

We went through this a few years ago with my in-laws. Eventually, they had to agree to move into assisted living because of my FIL’s health.

It took me, my husband, and my BIL and SIL months to clear out the house, then hire a company to do an estate sale and get rid of everything else. If your parents aren’t willing to do any of that work of getting rid of items beforehand, then this is likely what you’re facing.

[ixtap]

It really depends on whether it is inertia or actual hoarding.

My parents are inertia, but will happily let me clear a few things at a time.

My ILs are borderline and have recently brought even more into the house following the last deaths of the previous generation, both of who were full on, can barely walk through the hallways hoarders. MIL specifically trusts me and will come to me, tell me a story or ask if I know what something is, and sometimes go ahead and get rid of it after we have had a chance to process it. For her, the sharing is the whole point of the keeping. But when her minimalist DIL is the only one who has any grasp of history, the only one who will listen, it kind of drives home that there is no point in keeping the thing for future generations of the bloodline.

[Fishindude]

Just cleaned out and disposed of a whole bunch of junk from MIL's house last week.
One lady, living by herself must have had a hundred wash cloths and hand towels.   The good news is, I've got a sack full of new shop rags now.

[bmjohnson35]

This posting really hits home for me.  It is my mom that has the issue with hoarding. Like many other posters, she doesn't pile garbage up in the home, but she collects stuff and doesn't get rid of it. She goes to local thrift stores and buys more stuff weekly.  My dad had a difficult time with it and held on hope up until he passed a few years ago that he was going to get the house in order.  My mom is in her late 70's, her health is declining and she is a strong willed difficult person. My sister recently moved in to assist her.  I have come to the realization that it won't be dealt with until she passes and it will be my sister and I who will have to deal with it.

If I try to raise the issue, she becomes very defensive and angry.  I have learned not to even say anything anymore.  The funny thing is that my mom is the type that judges other people and has absolutely no filter. If you are overweight, she won't hesitate to tell you so and advise you to get it in order.  Although many of her family lives within 30 miles of her, only my uncle comes to see her at this point. 

[draco44]

Like others have said, this has to be handled carefully and slowly, and the degree of mental illness matters tremendously. But generally speaking, long-term, you will always be better off building trust with these relatives rather than breaking trust by getting rid of their things behind their backs. As we age there are fewer and fewer things parts of our life we can control, and that is scary. Personal belongings are one of those remaining centers of control. So do your best to be compassionate, even when you want to rip your skin off in frustration at what seems to you like easy decisions to make.

Crap is in the eye of the beholder. Pretty much by definition, a person's belongings are more valuable to that person that to anybody else, including relatives, looking in from the outside. I admit I actually laughed a bit at the opening of your post where you describe your own collections by saying they "are not in the way" and "if anything, these enhance the appearance of our house," because that is EXACTLY the sort of thing I would hear when trying to help certain elderly relatives deal with their own abundance of stuff.

Everyone's situation is different, but I hope the following example will be useful to you. With my relatives, I found that by going really slowly with them in the beginning, I was able to establish trust that eventually sped up their clutter decision making. At the start of this process, one day I suggested to a relative that perhaps we could free up some room in her closet by donating some of her shoes to a charity she supported, and could I help her with that. Then, while she sat in a chair watching me, I spent the afternoon pulling out and arranging her shoes across most of her living room floor, grouping the shoes in clusters (like "black heels" and "tennis shoes") so she could see in one glance what she had.  Then I asked about each cluster of shoes, saying "which of these would you like to keep?" To me they all looked like duplicates, but they were her shoes, and therefore the choice was hers to make. She was surprised by how much she had, and ended up getting rid of half of them. But even if she'd gotten rid of nothing that day, I still would have accomplished my real goal of showing that I could be useful in helping her deal with her stuff in a non-judgemental way. After a few similar exercises, we eventually reached the point where I could ask her more directly about individual items, and she'd make a call instantly.

[fuzzy math]

God I hate hoarders!!! My wife and I (in our late 40s) have large collections of books, LPs, CDs, and various small, packable souvenirs from world travel, but they are in nice bookcases, record cases, etc. and are not in the way. If anything, these enhance the appearance of our house. I am not the most organized person in the world, but I abhor anything bordering on hoarding.

Just want to say that one person's huge collections in multiple pieces of furniture is what another person might consider a hoard. CDs are about as useless as a room full of 30 yr old junk.
I understand your distinction between organized / put away vs filth and clutter, but lets say those items in your family's home bring as much joy to them as your collections do to you.

[RetiredAt63]

God I hate hoarders!!! My wife and I (in our late 40s) have large collections of books, LPs, CDs, and various small, packable souvenirs from world travel, but they are in nice bookcases, record cases, etc. and are not in the way. If anything, these enhance the appearance of our house. I am not the most organized person in the world, but I abhor anything bordering on hoarding.

Just want to say that one person's huge collections in multiple pieces of furniture is what another person might consider a hoard. CDs are about as useless as a room full of 30 yr old junk.

Am I behind the times?  I play my CDs regularly.  Now my Vinyl collection . . . .

People in the fiber crafts joke about SABLE (Stash Acquisition Beyond Life Expectancy).  But our stashes have come in handy during this time of isolation.

The only suggestion I can make is to suggest your parents read "The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning".  It is very gentle, funny in a wry way, acknowledges the reality of having stuff no longer needed, and is written by an older woman that your parents could empathize with.  You can say it was recommended by an older woman you know (i.e. me).  Do not suggest Marie Kondo's book, it would totally turn them off.

[Wrenchturner]

My mother might be going down this road, but she has other more pressing issues.

I personally avoid the trap by periodically getting rid of crap I don't use, even if I think it might be useful.  I can see how the impulse takes root.

Pretty easy when I rent furnished, if I move a box of stuff out of a place that I haven't touched since I moved it into a place, I know it's not really worth keeping.

[John Galt incarnate!]

No one I know personally is a hoarder.

I did watch a TV show about hoarders.

The guest  psychologist said that the underlying cause of hoarding is the hoarder's desire to exert control.

Extreme hoarding can result in a fire hazard.

My aunt's best friend (a widow)  is an extreme hoarder of new clothing, particularly dresses.

Drawers and closets are completely full of them.

The extra bedroom is filled with them.

The chairs and sofa in the living room are draped with new dresses.

One of the dresses spilled off the pile on the sofa and tripped the widow.

When she fell she injured a spinal disc  so severely that a special cement had to be injected into it to glue it back together.

[lemanfan]

The only suggestion I can make is to suggest your parents read "The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning".  It is very gentle, funny in a wry way, acknowledges the reality of having stuff no longer needed, and is written by an older woman that your parents could empathize with.  You can say it was recommended by an older woman you know (i.e. me).  Do not suggest Marie Kondo's book, it would totally turn them off.

I have not read the book yet, but as a Swedish person with a mother that is closing in on 80 years of age, I often hear "I will go throw out some more crap today, so you won't have to handle this when I die"... 

Separate question:  Will digital hoarding be a problem for in 30 years?  Kids going throug petabyte after petabyte trying to separate random junk files from photos and documents you want to save?

[Missy B]

So much good advice here. 
When I did reading on hoarding, what struck me was that hoarders have an inability to discern. The part of the brain that makes those assessments doesn't function well. That's how you get extreme hoarding with things that have genuine value all mixed together with things that are literal garbage. So grandma's china is in a box with jumbled moldy mass-market paperbacks, and all of it is 'precious'.

So in addition to the control and fear that is active with people who hoard, they genuinely can't make decisions about what should be kept. Also, hoarding behaviour does not really respond well to OCD medications. 

[Missy B]

My dad has way too much stuff, but I'm not sure he's a hoarder.  There are so many factors in play.  There are at least 3 large sheds on the property, plus a garage conversion currently serving as storage.  Some of what is in one shed is from when my mom was still alive.  We went through a lot of it in 2018 (when my dad finally felt up to it), but one day wasn't enough time.  So some of it is sentimental and he wants that stuff to have "good homes" as it were.  A lot of it is stuff he believes has value, at least to the people he might give it to.  Lots of tools for grandsons, etc.

The thing is, he is working on it, finally, because he wants to sell his house and move.  He made this decisions just three weeks before the pandemic shutdown in our state.  Unfortunately, thrift stores near him still aren't open or accepting donations.  And he'd rather most of it go to people who will use it.

His mother (my grandmother) was a child during the depression.  All of her children hoard (or hoarded) to some extent or another, with one clearly at the psychologically impaired level.  But also, we were lower economic class growing up, and the reality is poorer people are going to keep things in case they need them later.  So there's a combination of being taught not to waste anything (depression influence) and not being able to afford to waste things (struggling family).  Throw in being widowed not once but twice, and having emotional attachments to things.  I can see how it's hard.

We ourselves are at a tipping point with our stuff.  Our house always seemed big enough to hold everything, but now with the pandemic I've filled the pantry with shelf stable food, displacing a lot of kitchen stuff.  Plus we sold our camper van earlier this month and are having to figure out what to do with everything that was in it.  I told DH we flat out have to learn not to think like poor people, because we both grew up skirting poverty and have a tendency to want to keep things "just in case" because we don't want to spend the money again.  Plus we know things break.  Do we donate the extra Kuhn Rikon can opener, or keep it for when our current one breaks or a child sets up housekeeping?  What about a couple of extra blankets?  Do I still have room to keep a big dehydrator I rarely use?  I can imagine how easy it is to avoid tackling these questions if there's room to stuff things.

With my dad, hopefully he'll get the house cleaned out and be able to move.  It's a relief for me, because I worried about having to do it after he dies.  I once mentioned bringing in a company to clear everything out once we kids had taken what we wanted, and he was aghast.  He told me he'd leave me a list of companies for various categories of stuff.

Good for your Dad for starting. It is hard emotionally,and a lot of work mentally and physically to sort and move. With the recent COVID stuff and shortages and potential shortages I ended up being glad about some of the stuff I had, that was in the way before, because I couldn't have bought it. I understand differently how powerful that training is, to keep things because who knows if you'll be able to get it when you need it.

ANyway. Wanted to suggest that Craigslist and Freecycle are still pretty active even though the thrift stores are shut, and I think you'll find takers for items if you're willing to post them.
Thrift stores are what I'm most looking forward to see opening - so I can clear out my own stuff, and that is where I do much of my own shopping.

[SunnyDays]

You’re right about the lack of discernment.  To a true hoarder, everything is of equal, and high, value.  Your parents might not fit this description and might be willing to let things go if they think others will value it as much.  So a strategy you can try is to admire some item and express a desire to own it.  If this pleases them and they’re okay with you taking it, then that’s informative.  You could offer to go through everything with them “to ensure it all finds a good home” or hire a professional organizer.  If they’re fine with you taking things home, then just admire a lot of items!  They won’t know what you do with them after that and will likely forget all about them.

[ixtap]

My dad has way too much stuff, but I'm not sure he's a hoarder.  There are so many factors in play.  There are at least 3 large sheds on the property, plus a garage conversion currently serving as storage.  Some of what is in one shed is from when my mom was still alive.  We went through a lot of it in 2018 (when my dad finally felt up to it), but one day wasn't enough time.  So some of it is sentimental and he wants that stuff to have "good homes" as it were.  A lot of it is stuff he believes has value, at least to the people he might give it to.  Lots of tools for grandsons, etc.

The thing is, he is working on it, finally, because he wants to sell his house and move.  He made this decisions just three weeks before the pandemic shutdown in our state.  Unfortunately, thrift stores near him still aren't open or accepting donations.  And he'd rather most of it go to people who will use it.

His mother (my grandmother) was a child during the depression.  All of her children hoard (or hoarded) to some extent or another, with one clearly at the psychologically impaired level.  But also, we were lower economic class growing up, and the reality is poorer people are going to keep things in case they need them later.  So there's a combination of being taught not to waste anything (depression influence) and not being able to afford to waste things (struggling family).  Throw in being widowed not once but twice, and having emotional attachments to things.  I can see how it's hard.

We ourselves are at a tipping point with our stuff.  Our house always seemed big enough to hold everything, but now with the pandemic I've filled the pantry with shelf stable food, displacing a lot of kitchen stuff.  Plus we sold our camper van earlier this month and are having to figure out what to do with everything that was in it.  I told DH we flat out have to learn not to think like poor people, because we both grew up skirting poverty and have a tendency to want to keep things "just in case" because we don't want to spend the money again.  Plus we know things break.  Do we donate the extra Kuhn Rikon can opener, or keep it for when our current one breaks or a child sets up housekeeping?  What about a couple of extra blankets?  Do I still have room to keep a big dehydrator I rarely use?  I can imagine how easy it is to avoid tackling these questions if there's room to stuff things.

The pandemic is near perfect conditions for tipping anyone over the edge. One SIL has out and out shamed anyone who ever told her she shouldn't keep so much food and craft supplies on hand, even though she never stopped buying new food and new supplies. Our single roommate has more food in the house than we do as a couple, and is one of those that also bought several flats of water. And of course every new recipe needs as many new gadgets as ingredients. I didn't even know that one could buy a loaf sized cooling rack, and certainly don't understand why you would when you already own a roasting pan with a rack and a crock pot with a rack and...

These aren't new behaviors for either of them, but it might be what pushes them over the edge in the long run.

[mm1970]

I can see that it may be related to when they were born.  My father is gone, but he grew up in the depression, was into simple living, and didn't have much when he died.

The rest of my family...my mom (who is gone), stepfather, in-laws (divorced).  Wow.  All in their mid to late 70s now.

So, I think some of it is inertia and comfort, not necessarily hoarding.  My MIL has a house 3x the size of ours, packed to the gills. Including clothing and items from the 1970s.  But her house is huge, so why get rid of anything?  It meant when we visited, we lived out of suitcases (the dressers in the 2 spare bedrooms were both full, as were the dressers in the unused 3rd floor).  There's a desire to see "nice things" go to someone who will enjoy them.

Well, honestly...she has started to purge.  She divorced, and her boyfriend moved in 10 years ago, and he moved his entire house into the basement.  That sparked quite a bit of effort to get rid of things.  There are still too many things, but there are fewer.  Last time we visited, their cabin got a cleanout and there were these pink floral plates with gold trim that she was trying to get me to take.  1. I don't need them and 2. I don't want to fly them home.  (I'm almost 50.  Some of the cooking utensils and pots and plates we use are ones she bought him at estate sales in the 1980s.  They are OLD. I'm not against old things.)

My husband and I are better than most, because, well, we have an 1100sf house with 2 kids and a dog and no garage.  We have to be RUTHLESS at purging.  RUTHLESS.

My FIL doesn't have much (lives with a gf) and my stepfather has a houseful of stuff.

They have to be the ones to want to get rid of things.  I tell you, my Dad never really was into stuff, and his will said "sell everything in the house and split the proceeds 7 ways".  At his wake, my sister the executor said "we all know there's nothing worth shit in this house.  Take what you want and everything else is getting tossed."  I got my mom's corn plates (she made them herself).  My sister got my dad's WWII uniform. 

[Frankies Girl]

I had/have "as seen on TV" hoarder parents.

I say the following as someone that knows intimately the horrors of dealing with hoarders/packrats: do not go into their property and throw away/clean or otherwise force them to get rid of things unless you have their permission to do so.*

Packratting/hoarding is fear/anxiety based. They live in constant fear, and accumulating things and having them around them gives them a sense of control and safety. What you're proposing to do is taking away their armor/protective coating and leaving them exposed, terrified of the outside world and all the scary things they were trying to insulate themselves from, and  leave them scrambling around in fear and panic and yes even anger and resentment at the person that stole their things.

*If their home is a danger to them where there is a tripping hazard or piles of things could fall on them, or there is so much stuff they can't properly use or repair basic necessities like the toilet or take baths or have broken appliances or other needed repairs - then yes, you'll need to step in and remove the piles of stuff and clean it/get necessities up and running well enough to make sure they're safe and comfortable. But only to a level of safe/comfortable enough - not by your yardstick of clean and organized.

Please don't force clean their house - especially while they're out. Unless/until they are truly in a dangerous situation or so far gone mentally that they legit will not notice, you should show restraint and compassion.

Work with them. Ask if you can help sort a few rooms, help take some old clothes/books/junk to donate to a church/charity. You can even have a bigger charity come pick up large items like furniture for free if you can convince the parents to part with things that aren't used. If they offer items to you "to keep" take all they'll give you and go drop off at the nearest thrift store/throw out the garbage. Tell them you love them and are worried about them and just want to help them be more comfortable and able to find/use the things in their home. Tell the it's a real shame that they have XYZ just collecting dust in the closet because you know charity/church whatever would be able to put it to real use and would greatly appreciate them donating said item(s).

Do what you can, when you can, without causing undue stress and anger. If you value their mental health and your relationship with them, please treat them with as much compassion and love as you can. They aren't doing this on purpose, it's a mental illness.

[Zette]

The “A Slob Comes Clean” podcast has some good episodes on helping an elderly relative declutter:

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2019/08/218-wishing-someone-would-declutter-podcast/

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2019/09/219-helping-someone-downsize-the-beginning-of-the-slow-process-podcast/

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2019/09/podcast-220-downsizing-cleaning-podcast-out-the-whole-house/

https://www.aslobcomesclean.com/2019/10/223-dealing-with-stuff-after-the-death-of-a-loved-one/

[PhrugalPhan]

If I try to raise the issue, she becomes very defensive and angry.  I have learned not to even say anything anymore.  The funny thing is that my mom is the type that judges other people and has absolutely no filter.

Sounds like my GF.  She came to live with me in January, left everything in her old apartment, and is still paying for it, and expects me to go there and pack her stuff (and throw out most of my stuff so she can fill it with hers).  I have already told her it is not happening, and that she has to cut down dramatically on her own (as I tried to go through her things before with a friend - we did get rid of a lot, but there was lots of angst over every single item.  I am not up for more of that.)  I told her for 7 years she had to dramatically downsize while she finished her job living apart from me.  Always said she would, but never did.  Tries to blame me for her failures or pretend it hasn't happened.  I don't see this working out unfortunately.  I think we will have to have separate places long term.

Only good that has come of all this is I was a packrat and this has scared me straight.  I still have too much, but I have gotten rid of a lot over the past two years.  I'm in a much better place now.

[mspym]

So a chunk of the last year for me was spent with my mum, getting her mentally prepped for downsizing.
It had been really *hard * for her, as she was the last one standing in her birth family, so she felt an obligation to carry the family history and having her children propose throwing things away was met with resistance because to her, we were telling her to throw away her (dead) family members, with a nice side order of "and we have no interest in carrying this on once you are gone", which only intensified the obligation.

But! Once her new place was decided, and she knew what the future was going to be, I would fly to NZ and spend a week or a weekend going through a room with her and working out where her things would go in the new place (drawing furniture blocks on the blueprints), she became really excited and was more than ready to start throwing things out/ doing donation runs to the Vinnies, really looking at her belongings and working out which one whe used and why so that she could let go of the things she didn't use. It was the future focus that helped her switch, along with a lot of emphasis that it was her choice. She could take everything or nothing, I trusted her judgement. We started off small at first - cups and glasses - and then moved up to the harder stuff as she started feeling more confident in her decisions.

[ditheca]

My 9 and 10-year-old kids are hoarders.  Their room is so full of junk that I can't get through the doorway.  One has four (ancient) desktop computers and five monitors, among other things.  Some of them work.

Their bunk bed is usually so covered with junk that they sleep on the floor.  Today I decided I couldn't take it anymore, and helped out by throwing away everything except their most treasured possessions.

My ancient (90s) grandparents are hoarders.  But they are also loaded, so I recently helped them find a very large house where there is enough room for everything.  It is slowly growing more cluttered, but I doubt it will become a problem in the time they have remaining.

[MayDay]

My 9 and 10-year-old kids are hoarders.  Their room is so full of junk that I can't get through the doorway.  One has four (ancient) desktop computers and five monitors, among other things.  Some of them work.

Their bunk bed is usually so covered with junk that they sleep on the floor.  Today I decided I couldn't take it anymore, and helped out by throwing away everything except their most treasured possessions.

My ancient (90s) grandparents are hoarders.  But they are also loaded, so I recently helped them find a very large house where there is enough room for everything.  It is slowly growing more cluttered, but I doubt it will become a problem in the time they have remaining.

The situation with your kids seems like you need professional help immediately. Could one of help you do some research on finding someone in your area?

[former player]

My 9 and 10-year-old kids are hoarders.  Their room is so full of junk that I can't get through the doorway.  One has four (ancient) desktop computers and five monitors, among other things.  Some of them work.

Their bunk bed is usually so covered with junk that they sleep on the floor.  Today I decided I couldn't take it anymore, and helped out by throwing away everything except their most treasured possessions.

My ancient (90s) grandparents are hoarders.  But they are also loaded, so I recently helped them find a very large house where there is enough room for everything.  It is slowly growing more cluttered, but I doubt it will become a problem in the time they have remaining.

The situation with your kids seems like you need professional help immediately. Could one of help you do some research on finding someone in your area?

Just to reinforce this: your kids sleeping on the floor because their beds are full of junk is NOT NORMAL.

[K_in_the_kitchen]

Good for your Dad for starting. It is hard emotionally,and a lot of work mentally and physically to sort and move. With the recent COVID stuff and shortages and potential shortages I ended up being glad about some of the stuff I had, that was in the way before, because I couldn't have bought it. I understand differently how powerful that training is, to keep things because who knows if you'll be able to get it when you need it.

ANyway. Wanted to suggest that Craigslist and Freecycle are still pretty active even though the thrift stores are shut, and I think you'll find takers for items if you're willing to post them.
Thrift stores are what I'm most looking forward to see opening - so I can clear out my own stuff, and that is where I do much of my own shopping.

Thanks for the ideas -- I'll pass them along.  Our Goodwill is open (we took 4 boxes and 2 big contractor's bags of items to donate this morning), but his isn't.  It isn't worth the gas for him to bring his stuff here.  But I can help him use Freecycle and Craigslist, and I totally forgot they have a free area on CL.

I've been glad for a few things I didn't get rid of either!

[NV Teacher]

I’ve spent hundreds of hours helping a couple of hoarders getting rid of stuff.  It was painfully slow and mentally taxing.  Both of them refilled their houses within a year or so.  I’ve decided that they like to live like that and so be it.

[DaMa]

Here are a few ideas that have worked for me...

My mom and her sisters and I agreed 10 years ago to take ANYTHING my grandmother offered us.  That means taking it 500 miles home then donating it.  Grandma doesn't travel so she's never going to look for it in our houses.

Suggest donations with specifics. 
- Mom, don't you wear size 12?  My coworker's mother had a fire and needs clothes.  Do you have anything you could donate?
- Suzie's daughter is moving into her first apartment.  Do you have extra dishes, towels, etc you can give her?
- Our church is doing a something drive...
- I think Aunt/Cousin/Friend would like that.  Do you still use it?

If your parents are thinking downsizing, make an effort to put things in just the rooms that they will have.  Set up empty tables (or use dining room) and lay things out.  Have empty boxes for donations.  Everything they want to keep has to find a home in "allowed" space.  Give them until your next visit to clear the tables.  The satisfaction of clearing the tables each time gives a sense of accomplishment.  Take the boxes out even if they are not full.  Repeat. 

Get a photo album with the pockets that pictures slide into.  When something has sentimental value, take a picture, get it printed and put it in the album.  It's a memory album.  Then get rid of the thing.

[Cassie]

Since retiring 8 years ago I have gotten rid of 2/3 of stuff. We downsized our house so half the furniture went. My parents didn’t leave a mess behind and I am returning the favor to my kids.

[kite]

There’s a 800-got-Junk franchisee probably everywhere or people advertising on craigslist, etc who will clean out a space. 
That said, if it’s not your problem, don’t make it your problem.  I Kondo’d my belongings.  And I’m happy about it.  I have loved ones who are hoarders. But I don’t live in their houses.  I visit.  Then I go home.  If their house is unsafe because of hoarding, try to carve out a safe, livable space for them in rooms that can remain uncluttered.  But let them leave their attic, basement, garage, spare-room full of excess stuff.  It’s not hurting anyone just sitting there. 

[TrMama]

I had/have "as seen on TV" hoarder parents.

I say the following as someone that knows intimately the horrors of dealing with hoarders/packrats: do not go into their property and throw away/clean or otherwise force them to get rid of things unless you have their permission to do so.*

Packratting/hoarding is fear/anxiety based. They live in constant fear, and accumulating things and having them around them gives them a sense of control and safety. What you're proposing to do is taking away their armor/protective coating and leaving them exposed, terrified of the outside world and all the scary things they were trying to insulate themselves from, and  leave them scrambling around in fear and panic and yes even anger and resentment at the person that stole their things.

*If their home is a danger to them where there is a tripping hazard or piles of things could fall on them, or there is so much stuff they can't properly use or repair basic necessities like the toilet or take baths or have broken appliances or other needed repairs - then yes, you'll need to step in and remove the piles of stuff and clean it/get necessities up and running well enough to make sure they're safe and comfortable. But only to a level of safe/comfortable enough - not by your yardstick of clean and organized.

Please don't force clean their house - especially while they're out. Unless/until they are truly in a dangerous situation or so far gone mentally that they legit will not notice, you should show restraint and compassion.

Work with them. Ask if you can help sort a few rooms, help take some old clothes/books/junk to donate to a church/charity. You can even have a bigger charity come pick up large items like furniture for free if you can convince the parents to part with things that aren't used. If they offer items to you "to keep" take all they'll give you and go drop off at the nearest thrift store/throw out the garbage. Tell them you love them and are worried about them and just want to help them be more comfortable and able to find/use the things in their home. Tell the it's a real shame that they have XYZ just collecting dust in the closet because you know charity/church whatever would be able to put it to real use and would greatly appreciate them donating said item(s).

Do what you can, when you can, without causing undue stress and anger. If you value their mental health and your relationship with them, please treat them with as much compassion and love as you can. They aren't doing this on purpose, it's a mental illness.

So much this. We're dealing with this with MIL now. While she's not to the level of Frankie's parents she still has a huge amount of stuff that's rendered her apartment non-functional. You can't put anything away, because every cabinet and drawer are stuffed to overflowing. You can't even unload the dishwasher because there's no where to put the clean dishes. DH and I can't stock her pantry because it's too full of dishes; no room for food. She's also got "new" major memory issues due to a brain tumor. She's been in the hospital for the last 6 weeks and DH and I don't know how much she'll remember when she comes home. When/If she comes home, it'll be on palliative care and she'll have a staff of homecare nurses who come in twice a day to help her eat/take meds/bathe/etc. Those people aren't going to be able to function in the apartment as it is now. Nor will DH and I be able to stand it, since we'll be doing much of the same work as the nurses.

However, we're concerned that if we declutter too much, it'll just make MIL more confused. This has been her home for the past 9 years and we want her to be as comfortable and calm as possible. So while she's been away DH and I have done a very limited clear out with the aim of making it a safe place for her to live. While doing this I've come to understand that part of her hoarding is because shopping is one of her social activities and part is because she simply can't physically move the things she acquired.

I fully expect when she comes home and the health authority does their home assessment they'll say, "The amount of clutter isn't OK. Please fix it." At that point DH and I will do whatever clearing out is necessary to meet the requirements and we'll absolutely blame the health authority for the changes to keep peace between her and us. I'm not picking a fight with her now over her obscene dish collection. It's not worth it. When MIL passes, we'll do the final clear out. This one will involve a reno dumpster in the driveway.

[SunnyDays]

TrMama, you might not want to wait until Home Care says the clutter is a problem because you don’t want to be stuck without their help while you do more clean out.  Maybe you could take some pictures now to show them in order to get a jumpstart on cleaning.  This way, it’s still their fault!

[Heywood57]

An elderly couple a few blocks away either recently died or moved to assisted living.

Their family filled three 40 yard dumpsters over a most of a month as they cleaned out the house.
It was stunning how much stuff they hauled out of there.

[Sibley]

There's a house down the block from me that had a dumpster sitting in the driveway for about 3 months over last winter. I assumed house renos.

Then I was talking to someone who lives further down the block than me. Nope. Owner died. That wasn't 1 dumpster, that was 5 dumpsters. The last dumpster I believe actually was house renos, they had to gut the house.

[Missy B]

I had/have "as seen on TV" hoarder parents.

I say the following as someone that knows intimately the horrors of dealing with hoarders/packrats: do not go into their property and throw away/clean or otherwise force them to get rid of things unless you have their permission to do so.*

Packratting/hoarding is fear/anxiety based. They live in constant fear, and accumulating things and having them around them gives them a sense of control and safety. What you're proposing to do is taking away their armor/protective coating and leaving them exposed, terrified of the outside world and all the scary things they were trying to insulate themselves from, and  leave them scrambling around in fear and panic and yes even anger and resentment at the person that stole their things.

*If their home is a danger to them where there is a tripping hazard or piles of things could fall on them, or there is so much stuff they can't properly use or repair basic necessities like the toilet or take baths or have broken appliances or other needed repairs - then yes, you'll need to step in and remove the piles of stuff and clean it/get necessities up and running well enough to make sure they're safe and comfortable. But only to a level of safe/comfortable enough - not by your yardstick of clean and organized.

Please don't force clean their house - especially while they're out. Unless/until they are truly in a dangerous situation or so far gone mentally that they legit will not notice, you should show restraint and compassion.

Work with them. Ask if you can help sort a few rooms, help take some old clothes/books/junk to donate to a church/charity. You can even have a bigger charity come pick up large items like furniture for free if you can convince the parents to part with things that aren't used. If they offer items to you "to keep" take all they'll give you and go drop off at the nearest thrift store/throw out the garbage. Tell them you love them and are worried about them and just want to help them be more comfortable and able to find/use the things in their home. Tell the it's a real shame that they have XYZ just collecting dust in the closet because you know charity/church whatever would be able to put it to real use and would greatly appreciate them donating said item(s).

Do what you can, when you can, without causing undue stress and anger. If you value their mental health and your relationship with them, please treat them with as much compassion and love as you can. They aren't doing this on purpose, it's a mental illness.

So much this. We're dealing with this with MIL now. While she's not to the level of Frankie's parents she still has a huge amount of stuff that's rendered her apartment non-functional. You can't put anything away, because every cabinet and drawer are stuffed to overflowing. You can't even unload the dishwasher because there's no where to put the clean dishes. DH and I can't stock her pantry because it's too full of dishes; no room for food. She's also got "new" major memory issues due to a brain tumor. She's been in the hospital for the last 6 weeks and DH and I don't know how much she'll remember when she comes home. When/If she comes home, it'll be on palliative care and she'll have a staff of homecare nurses who come in twice a day to help her eat/take meds/bathe/etc. Those people aren't going to be able to function in the apartment as it is now. Nor will DH and I be able to stand it, since we'll be doing much of the same work as the nurses.

However, we're concerned that if we declutter too much, it'll just make MIL more confused.

Clutter is confusing and stressful. She doesn't have clutter because it relaxes her, she has clutter because trying to get rid of stuff causes more stress and anxiety. She'll be less confused with less stuff that is clearly visible, though she might be pretty mad if she realizes you've removed her stuff. (Dunno how bad her memory is... will she remember her apt the way it was?)

[Just Joe]

Only good that has come of all this is I was a packrat and this has scared me straight.  I still have too much, but I have gotten rid of a lot over the past two years.  I'm in a much better place now.

Recent events have made me realize the same thing. Years ago elders moved. The volume of "treasures" tucked away in their house was impressive. And I brought home some vinyl records...

We visit the same elders and I look at their garage in the new place. Loaded down with boxes of unused but loved knick-knacks.

We moved and the volume of "treasures" I had tucked away in our house is impressive...

My hobbies need to consume some of the supplies reserved for them or the hobbies need to be replaced with something else. THIS summer is the summer I keep saying. We're at the end of a big home project and its time finally to do the hobbies and consume the supplies.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Please. I've been called a hoarder for saving used wrapping paper and bows.

[joicetti]

I hear you and I sympathize. My COVID project is trying to clean out the house - my mother's house where I live with her due to the pandemic. It'll be my house one day when she's gone and I'd been dreading this process, since she and my father (deceased) are/were hoarders.

I've found old tax forms above the fridge, used gift wrap in the kitchen drawers, and enough plastic straws to keep McDonald's afloat for the rest of the century. I could open a Home Depot in my driveway with the number of tools, bulbs, nails, etc. I've found in the garage. There's no room in the closets or drawers because they're full of boxes, suitcases, bags, containers, and other crap. This includes everything from dozens and dozens of plastic containers and cups to stretched-out clothes that have yellowed and discolored from years of non-use.

I want to do this now because when else am I going to WANT to do this? I'm basically a hostage right now unable to travel or do anything else, which puts 'organize mop collection' squarely at the top of my to-do list.

I know hoarding is a mental illness. It's been a struggle to say the least. My mother thinks because she paid for this stuff = she's never going to give it up, even though it's broken, no longer wearable, or just plain isn't needed any more (my dad's stuff). I've put bags in my trunk for the landfill or donation and my mother's gone in and taken stuff out. She's slowly amassing a pile up to the ceiling in her room, since I won't let her put it back anywhere else in the house. If she wants to live and sleep in a pile of her own garbage, she can do so, but I won't let her force me to live the same way.

It's a horrible process. I'm a minimalist and believe in having only what you need, so cleaning up someone else's crap from the past 50 years is agonizing. I get holding on to memories, but storing literal garbage is a different story.

[The Fake Cheap]

I just want to add that really isn't any way to deal with the hoarding other than to let it run it's course. 

My parents are hoaders (both in their 70's now) and we have tried everything in the book. They got a storage unti about 4 years ago to "help" as a temporary measure to get the sorting process started.  Then the next year, ANOTHER storage unit was rented (and no my paretns don't really have the extra money for these units) we felt we had to intervene, so after much sorting and organazing, we recently got them back to one storage unit.  They have a large 3 bedroom house with a fully finsihed basement and garage, they _should_ have more than enough room in their house for their stuff.  The basement and garage and spare bedrooms are basically filled floor to ceiling with 80% junk.


At the start of our local lockdown in mid March, my Dad was sent home from work, and he said "I'm going to have all this time off, I'm going to have lots of time to get stuff done in the basement and the garage!."  We knew nothing would be done.  12 weeks later...and essentailly nothing was done.  The only thing that got done was they managed to throw out a few bags of garbage and broght some cans and bottles for recycling and they donated a few medium sized boxes of clothes/junk.  THis is progress to them, but it is really about 0.01% of the work that needs to be done.

[The Fake Cheap]

I had/have "as seen on TV" hoarder parents.

I say the following as someone that knows intimately the horrors of dealing with hoarders/packrats: do not go into their property and throw away/clean or otherwise force them to get rid of things unless you have their permission to do so.*

Packratting/hoarding is fear/anxiety based. They live in constant fear, and accumulating things and having them around them gives them a sense of control and safety. What you're proposing to do is taking away their armor/protective coating and leaving them exposed, terrified of the outside world and all the scary things they were trying to insulate themselves from, and  leave them scrambling around in fear and panic and yes even anger and resentment at the person that stole their things.

*If their home is a danger to them where there is a tripping hazard or piles of things could fall on them, or there is so much stuff they can't properly use or repair basic necessities like the toilet or take baths or have broken appliances or other needed repairs - then yes, you'll need to step in and remove the piles of stuff and clean it/get necessities up and running well enough to make sure they're safe and comfortable. But only to a level of safe/comfortable enough - not by your yardstick of clean and organized.

Please don't force clean their house - especially while they're out. Unless/until they are truly in a dangerous situation or so far gone mentally that they legit will not notice, you should show restraint and compassion.

Work with them. Ask if you can help sort a few rooms, help take some old clothes/books/junk to donate to a church/charity. You can even have a bigger charity come pick up large items like furniture for free if you can convince the parents to part with things that aren't used. If they offer items to you "to keep" take all they'll give you and go drop off at the nearest thrift store/throw out the garbage. Tell them you love them and are worried about them and just want to help them be more comfortable and able to find/use the things in their home. Tell the it's a real shame that they have XYZ just collecting dust in the closet because you know charity/church whatever would be able to put it to real use and would greatly appreciate them donating said item(s).

Do what you can, when you can, without causing undue stress and anger. If you value their mental health and your relationship with them, please treat them with as much compassion and love as you can. They aren't doing this on purpose, it's a mental illness.

I think it was you that had a thread that was following your struggle with this a few years ago?  Is that still up or has it been removed? 

[Just Joe]

A friend tells me he spent several weekends cleaning out papers and whatnot from his parents' home. One parent passed, other one unable to do the work so it falls on my friend. I vow to not do that to our kids.