How do you control your spending and not let it control you?

[sloof70]

Ever since I got onto this whole early retirement, being frugal, saving thing, I'm not to pleased about how my relationship with my finances has developed.  I love to save and find it easier than most, but I don't like the obsession and guilt I've developed with it.  I easily do what I expect out of myself, which is to put the maximum allotments in my SIMPLE and Roth IRAs each month.  And then I save for emergencies on top of that.  I live off around 30% of my income.  But I always feel like I could do more, and that means that every non-essential dollar spent is one less share in my investments or one more day of work.  I don't deprive myself, but I feel a twinge when I spend money on enjoying life or even buying things that are somewhat necessary.  I check Mint and look at stock performance constantly.  I'm not two years into this thing, and it's taken over a huge chunk of my focus, and that bothers me.  I don't want to develop an irrational fear of spending money, but it has gotten worse, even though my income and contributions have increased.

Has anyone gone through this and figured out a way to invest and save aggressively, but be super cool about it?

[matchewed]

Live life. The whole frugality, investment, and saving thing is a lifestyle, not your life. Your life is the things you do and the people you interact with, figuring out how to do that in a manner which is consistent with your values is your lifestyle. Also don't sweat the small stuff, you haven't suffered any trauma for not being 100% efficient in everything.

If looking at stuff which is out of your control causes you grief then stop looking at stuff out of your control. Or change your perspective on it.

Focus on the now and be confident that your lifestyle will get you to FIRE regardless of the occasional non-essential dollar being spent.

[Reepekg]

It is a powerful set of ideas, and I became a bit too obsessive about it at first as well.

For me, the key was to set a target savings percentage that I'm comfortable with (60%) and stick to it. Purposely setting a threshold beyond which I will not try to optimize gives me the satisfaction of winning, a relatively certain FIRE date, and the joy from the ability to splurge on things whenever there is extra income or whatever.

The whole point of becoming a professional capitalist is to have the freedom from ever worrying about money... not letting it drive you nuts.

[apennysaved]

I am much more of a control freak then my husband when it comes to finances.  We came to an agreement where we have a monthly splurge allowance.  The good thing is that I know that I have a set amount aside and if I do decide to use it for lunch with friends or a random manicure it really isn't going to blow up our whole plan.  Before I would feel guilty, but we have about 5 years until FIRE, so these little treats help make it easier to keep up the pace in the long run and it helps my husband stick with the plan and not feel deprived. It might be something you want to consider. You can always change the allowance amount if you decide it is too much or too little.

[MrsPete]

Two answers:

1.  Search for balance.  Your goal isn't to put aside every penny you can . . . at the cost of failing to enjoy today.  Rather, the goal is to find a balance between saving for your future, working towards your plans, and also enjoying today. 

2.  Budget.  You should allot X amount for today's spending money.  If you've allotted a reasonable amount and you know you're spending within your means, you won't feel guilty about it. 

[Integrate]

I think stoicism is good here (or another philosophy of life that works for you). See: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10/02/what-is-stoicism-and-how-can-it-turn-your-life-to-solid-gold/

It sounds like a lot of what you are struggling with is that accumulating money is now your source of happiness. In my view the goal of MMM is to have happiness independent of money/stuff. The fact that this is easier to do with frugality (i.e. avoiding keeping up withe the Joneses) means you will accumulate a lot of wealth with a decent salary.

I'd suggest thinking about what your purpose is in achieving financial independence. If your goal is to just do that, it may become an obsession rather than a gift. Make sure that what you are doing is something that will lead to living a good/satisfying life. I'm also not sure on your social network, but make sure that being frugal is not cutting in to your social time. I say this as an introvert. It's fine to cut spending on stupid shit, but enjoying life in a social sense is a large part of what it means to be human (I think MMM would agree with me here if you look at his blog posts). That doesn't mean what you do has to be expensive, but it does mean that you shouldn't cut out expensive social interactions (bar every week or whatever) and replace them with nothing.

[gooki]

Paying my self a weekly allowance works tremendously well.

[Woodshark]

Simplify it. Pick a number. For some people it's 15% to 25%; yours is higher. Now invest that portion of your paycheck, then pay your bills and don't worry about what's left. Consider this as the reward for being frugal and wise. You can enjoy it in many ways. You could spend it on dinner out or seeing live music. You could save it for a vacation, you could even give it way. Whatever makes you happy.

[sloof70]

Also don't sweat the small stuff, you haven't suffered any trauma for not being 100% efficient in everything.

I try to remind myself.  As do a couple close friends/therapists.

It is a powerful set of ideas, and I became a bit too obsessive about it at first as well.

Glad I'm not alone!

It sounds like a lot of what you are struggling with is that accumulating money is now your source of happiness. In my view the goal of MMM is to have happiness independent of money/stuff. The fact that this is easier to do with frugality (i.e. avoiding keeping up withe the Joneses) means you will accumulate a lot of wealth with a decent salary.

Both true.  I am pleased by saving, and I am frustrated by spending.  I am entirely independent of stuff.  I have no things that I hold in too much value aside from what's on my hard drive (pics, songs, documents), and that's backed up with Carbonite.  Trying to let the money aspect go, as you can see, and figuring out what the end game is and why I want to be there.

Paying my self a weekly allowance works tremendously well.

I like this.  I find monthly budgets no bueno.  Typically, I exhaust them early and deprive myself at the end of the month.  Like a quota, inverse.

Simplify it. Pick a number. For some people it's 15% to 25%; yours is higher. Now invest that portion of your paycheck, then pay your bills and don't worry about what's left. Consider this as the reward for being frugal and wise.

I try that, but it's the fun money that's left that I'm trying to be okay with.

Thanks you all for advice.  Just some shit I'm working through and unnecessarily stressing about.  I need to set some numbers to give myself some freedom and not be guilty because I bought a shirt or went to a bar or took a scuba class.  Being in the moment is something I lost sight of when I found out retiring in 10-15 years was an option.  Chock it up to growing pains.

[ichangedmyname]

Paying my self a weekly allowance works tremendously well.

Just curious, how much? Is it a percentage of your budget?

[gooki]

It's never been a percentage of our budget, but more around, what's a sensible amount of money to cover personal expenses for our stage in life (clothing, grooming, entertainment, hobbies, etc.)

Currently my wife and I each get $40 a week. It has been as high as $75 a week when we were younger and didn't have children.

The main reason we don't use a percentage of budget, is to avoid lifestyle inflation. If it went up with our salaries, we'd end up in the habit of spending much more then we need to.

This works really well in avoiding arguing about money with spouses. When my wife spent $300 on a hair cut it was out of her allowance account, so even though I thought it was ridiculous it was clearly earmarked as her money to spend as she pleases, so zero arguments. We even laugh about it now. And I'm sure she has similar stories about my gadget buying.

To keep expanding on how we run our finances. We pay ourselves an allowance as above, we set aside a set amount to cover the bills and living expenses, and everything else gets whisked away into savings/investments come payday.

This way we don't run by a strict budget, just some fuzzy math about how much on average we need every month. And it then our job during that month to make sure we keep spending in check.

[Anatidae V]

I got very very anxious and stressed about this, very regularly, despite an allowance, until I realized FI is not my goal. My goal is to create a life that I enjoy. Once I focused on that, and understood FI was a strategy towards that goal, the stress went away. I still have a long way to go to FI, but now I can think about it clearly and calmly instead of becoming stressed about not being there right now or wasting money.

[ender]

I have $100 in "whatever I want to spend it on" money a month right now.

That helps a lot, at this point $100 is more than enough for me to not feel controlled.

[plantingourpennies]

The whole point of becoming a professional capitalist is to have the freedom from ever worrying about money... not letting it drive you nuts.

I love this! Never thought of myself as a professional capitalist...but we do spend a decent chunk of time figuring out how to invest wisely, and hope to live off the proceeds some day. You're right about the point of the excercise as well...

Best,
Mr. PoP

[wing117]

sloof70, you're definitely not alone on that front and depending on where you are in the journey, I can completely understand it. I just recently started this trip and it feels so darn fragile right now. Like a single life event could wipe out all of my hard work towards being debt free and building of wealth. So I focus a LOT on optimizing every penny to pay off the debts and build the wealth as quickly as possible. When I first started I suddenly had to think about IRA's, 401Ks, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, tax optimization, reduction of expenditure, new investment lingo(unrealized gains/losses, re-balancing, expense ratio, bogleheads?!). It's a lot to take in. And I think for a lot of us, it consumes us for a while.

I've never liked shopping for clothes 'n crap anyway. However I started not liking to spend ANY money, even with important things. For instance, if I forget to bring my lunch with me to work I wouldn't go buy lunch. I'll just wait till I get home to make food or feel guilty about the 3.00 bowl of soup I purchased even though I'm starving!

That's kind of ridiculous. That's my health we're talkin' about.

This month I pay off the last of my debt and will reach a savings percentage I'm very happy with (lower than your 70%!). At that point, I'm going to automate all my savings and investing and start focusing on living and stop worrying about the pennies for a while. (I mean we all need to reassess and optimize occasionally!)

The advice others have given in this thread has been great. Thanks folks!

[andrea-stache]

This may be one of the best posts on the forum so far!   Thank you for posting the question!!

I can relate to so much of what people have shared.   Thanks for everyone's honest feedback!

I struggle with this as well.  I was really beating myself up yesterday for some money spent on an upcoming bathroom renovation project.  I really need to cut myself some slack for several reasons.   Bathroom renovations have a high rate of return (resale), I comparison shopped and got a great deal on the tile (bulk of budget), and am using gift cards to pay for most accessories.   

We have no debt and a strong positive net worth...if we want to spend some money (responsibly) on bringing our bathroom into the current decade, why shouldn't we? 

[sloof70]

I've never liked shopping for clothes 'n crap anyway. However I started not liking to spend ANY money, even with important things. For instance, if I forget to bring my lunch with me to work I wouldn't go buy lunch. I'll just wait till I get home to make food or feel guilty about the 3.00 bowl of soup I purchased even though I'm starving!

That's kind of ridiculous. That's my health we're talkin' about.

I do this bullshit too!  Forget to bring a lunch?  Starve!  Need a $3.99 bottle of Draino because your sink is clogged?  Deal with it!  Toothbrush getting a little worn out?  Brush harder!

I started to get a little nuts, and I still can't say I'm out of it.  I'm not rich, but I make a good income for a 25 year old single guy, have no debts or obligations, and life's little necessities are such a minuscule amount in my overall income.  Yet whether it's a $100 want or a $10 need, it's all money spent and gives me anxiety.  I should add that it's spread to other parts of my life.  I obsessively watch my carbohydrate intake, miles per gallon, cellphone data usage, and really anything that can be measured and conserved.  I've considered seeing a therapist, or a the very least, taking another wild mushroom trip and seeing where that takes me.

All that said, if I become a millionaire that rides the bus and eats at food carts, it'll all be worth it.  The dream of ragged riches.

[matchewed]

If you notice your anxiety bleeding into other aspects of your life you may very well want to talk to someone. Then it is a full life problem and not just a attitude towards money problem.

That's something entirely different which I don't think anyone on this board is qualified to speak to (regardless of your actual RL qualifications you're just a voice on the intertubes).

[wtjbatman]

sloof70, you're definitely not alone on that front and depending on where you are in the journey, I can completely understand it. I just recently started this trip and it feels so darn fragile right now. Like a single life event could wipe out all of my hard work towards being debt free and building of wealth. So I focus a LOT on optimizing every penny to pay off the debts and build the wealth as quickly as possible. When I first started I suddenly had to think about IRA's, 401Ks, 403(b)s, 457(b)s, tax optimization, reduction of expenditure, new investment lingo(unrealized gains/losses, re-balancing, expense ratio, bogleheads?!). It's a lot to take in. And I think for a lot of us, it consumes us for a while.

I've never liked shopping for clothes 'n crap anyway. However I started not liking to spend ANY money, even with important things. For instance, if I forget to bring my lunch with me to work I wouldn't go buy lunch. I'll just wait till I get home to make food or feel guilty about the 3.00 bowl of soup I purchased even though I'm starving!

That's kind of ridiculous. That's my health we're talkin' about.

My sudden obsession with savings and retirement has my girlfriend thinking I'm going through a midlife crisis since turning 30 this month. I partially blame MMM for my home woes.

[HappierAtHome]

If you notice your anxiety bleeding into other aspects of your life you may very well want to talk to someone. Then it is a full life problem and not just a attitude towards money problem.

That's something entirely different which I don't think anyone on this board is qualified to speak to (regardless of your actual RL qualifications you're just a voice on the intertubes).

THIS.

It's one thing to notice you're a little bit obsessive, in a funny way...

But when it's getting into the anxiety zone, then it's time to get help managing your feelings.

[sloof70]

If you notice your anxiety bleeding into other aspects of your life you may very well want to talk to someone. Then it is a full life problem and not just a attitude towards money problem.

That's something entirely different which I don't think anyone on this board is qualified to speak to (regardless of your actual RL qualifications you're just a voice on the intertubes).

May be true, but it hasn't prevented actions much, only stuck a small dagger in me on many occasions.  I'm keeping an eye on it.  I feel, and I don't think I'm alone, that I'm at the end of the honeymoon stage where you truly believe you can aggressively optimize every aspect consumption, even though life mostly doesn't work that way.  I'll get over it.