How Different is Life Between FI and non-FI?

[EscapeVelocity2020]

I think it was only when I really felt FI (a feeling like when my parents tucked me in at night, not knowing enough about the world but feeling safe enough to sleep easily) that I realized I was FI.  The markets tumble 50% or more, I know how to make money and I have way more money than I thought I would have by 40.  Could've retired, but I'm not that guy apparently.  I don't put 'retirement' up on a pedestal, because I just like to work.  Physically, mentally.  I don't care so much about income, I just love the exchange of ideas and international travel and work itself. 

[sui generis]

Not as different as I expected.  Maybe partially because I haven't settled on just one FI number for myself, so I'm constantly going back and forth between considering myself FI or not, which is the same place I was when I first discovered the FIRE community and the calculations.  I was many times over 25x lean FI then and am still somewhat below 33x Fat FI now, and I haven't settled on a specific definition within those parameters.

But to the extent I was hoping it felt different to have FU money....Well, I was hoping I'd feel more confident at work and less bowing-and-scraping to ensure I'm viewed well here.  It's too instinctual.  I want to be liked and thought of as an excellent employee regardless of any reward or punishment on offer.  That's not all bad, and I pride myself on wanting to do a good job regardless of reward.  But it's not great to do things *just* to be liked and held in high esteem that aren't material to the job itself.  So having FU money didn't free me from that fear of not being thought of as a good little employee.  But oh well, that's a short-term problem.  10 months to go!

[Basenji]

I'll never forget one evening when I came home from work (right before I discovered MMM) and just starting crying. I said to my DH, "I can't do it. I can't keep working until 65." I was around 45 and my father had died suddenly at age 67 a year before. The thought of another 20 years of work, of possibly dying myself without having any time to retire was unbearable. "Why 65?" you ask. Well, that's because all I read about retirement used that age as an example. For example, this BS: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/ideal-retirement-age-work/396464/
I started reading about money and found MMM. Suddenly I discovered that we could be FI in 5 years if we stuck to a new plan. DH and I ran the numbers, I learned a LOT, adjusted some allocations (thanks to @Nords who explained how allocation is affected by a military pension https://the-military-guide.com/present-value-estimate-of-a-military-pension/), and suddenly I was only a few years from quitting my freaking job! Toodle-oodle-doo mother f-ers! Planning for and achieving FI saved me. My only regret is I wish I had fully understood this when I was in my 20s.

[aGracefulStomp]

Toodle-oodle-doo mother f-ers!

LOL ok that’s how I want to sign off on my farewell email



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[Basenji]

Toodle-oodle-doo mother f-ers!

LOL ok that’s how I want to sign off on my farewell email

In the interest of full disclosure, I didn't actually get to use that line because between the day I tendered my resignation and my actual last day of work they offered me to go adjunct and only work when I wanted, with a company computer and the ability to contribute to the 401k (although they would no longer match contributions). So far I've done 3 projects over 3 months, none of which took more than 16 billable hours. I swear, I felt like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-IkWpm7TS0

[Exflyboy]

Hmm.. Good question.

Pre and post FI did not feel that different to be honest. Like EV I like work.. What I don't like the corporate bullshit that goes along with work. Honestly I didn't discover this happy fact until I engineered my own profitable layoff while working for an abusive employer.. My last "grown up" job..:)

After 7 months of doing very little I got an offer that I couldn't refuse from a previous employer. I absolutely loved it. Lots of international travel and doing an important job. I felt great to be making a large contribution to the team.

I have done two gigs with these folks and they wanted me to come back again, but the cost of healthcare means they could not offer me enough $$ to make it worth giving up my time for.

I am way past FI.. about 133 times average spend, so clearly I have no financial incentive to work (except I LIKE making money). But the FI piece gives you one huge thing... The ability to CHOOSE.

I do NOT choose to be abused by my employer, not to work for salary.. I work X hours and you pay me for the same.. Want me to work more, pay me for them (unless the salary is sufficiently large, which is has rarely been). I choose not to work in a job that is a bad fit or I will clearly not like. I will definitely NOT abuse my staff because my employer has chosen to manage by fear!!!

Pay me fairly, give me a great team to work with where my skills make a difference and I'm appreciated.. I will CHOOSE to work there quite happily..

[Monkey Uncle]

Around the middle of 2016, I took a week off of work to get some work done around the house/yard.  Although I had always lived below my means with a goal of retiring early, it had only been about two years since I had really gotten serious about socking away enough to make it a reality.  A few days before my week off was over, I ran the cFiresim/Firecalc numbers, just for the heck of it.  I had never run the detailed numbers before because I didn't think I was close enough to be encouraged by the results. 

As it turned out, I had already reached minimal FI.  I was stunned.  For a moment I considered just not going back to work, but I shook that off pretty quickly and resolved to at least work through the end of 2016 to pad the numbers a bit.  When DJT won the presidential election and it looked like the ACA was about to be repealed, I reluctantly decided to keep working until I got some sense of how that was going to shake out.  I eventually pulled the plug in January 2018 with a back-up plan of part-time consulting work if the ACA folds.

Everything changed with that realization that I was FI.  My singular focus became getting a plan in place to pull the plug as soon as possible.  I grew more of a spine at work.  I didn't slack off because I'm not that guy, but whenever an issue of conscience arose, I always sided with my conscience instead of choosing the path that was most likely to advance my career.  Work still sucked, but I could focus on the light at the end of the tunnel instead of just resigning myself to making the best of it.  It's probably a good thing I left when I did, because my conscience was starting to get my boss in trouble with his boss. ;)

[tooqk4u22]

I think all along I really didn't differentiate between my FI and RE number because for me the RE was the goal and if I couldn't RE then I must not be FI.  I mean if we can't fully provide for and maintain our desired lifestyle and spending then how can we be FI.  I think I might have taken that to far because clearly that is not the case and in all reality we have been FI for a long time as our spending has a lot of wants included and if we really had to could cut those out.  Also we have been well beyond Fuck you money for some time...so is the FI then?  Financially free may be better choice of words as we are free to choose and alter....ie "we can have anything we want but not everything we want" kind of thinking.

I guess for me life between FI and non-FI my stress about putting up with BS reports, goals, micromanagement, bad management and so on and so on became imminently more intolerable.  I did think that being FI would allow me to just shrug it off entirely knowing that I could just quit or go find something else - and to some extent it did but more what I experienced was I became more impatient with greater frustrations about the aforementioned and started to care less and less as the all the corporate BS sucked the life out of me because it was abundantly clear that none of that matters and almost completely detracts from the desirable and productive parts of the job......BUT THE CORPORATE BS ACCOUNTS FOR SO MUCH OF THE JOB. Also, I hate being in a fucking beige bland boring office all fucking day (at least I have a window). 

I don't think I will go as far as to say that I like to work like the OP does, but maybe if I was doing something different I would feel that way.  I will likely always be productive in some capacity because I like too but is that work or play or tinkering....I don't know.  I also struggle with Ego....fall back of working at starbucks or whatever for $10/hr to weather a downturn or whatever would be hard to swallow when compared to OMY that could offset many years of that starbucks scenario.

So here we are balancing between FI and RE and OMY (or two or three) because of growing expenses and health care and other wants.

I haven't ever put my name on any of the lists....but 2018 could happen or 2019 or.....maybe  I should.

Anyway, long story should FI made me care less and have less tolerance for it all.

[Pigeon]

I'm FI but am working for a couple more years until the kids finish college and fledge.  I want to have plenty of assets so there's no danger of being short in retirement.  For me, it's kind of been a negative.  I'm not changing employers at this point as it would mean a move and I want to stay here.  It's made me less happy in my job and more prone to being irritated by the BS than if I'd gone on my previous plan of working another 10 years.   

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Thanks for all the replies.  In many ways, it sounds like ER is the key to really feeling the effect of FI.  Like once you go without a salary and realize you are still FI, then the light switch flips. 

I did get a little boost when I hit 2x my 'number', using the Bogleheads 'imagine losing 50% of your portfolio' to set your AA thinking now made me bulletproof.  I have been very relaxed at work, but am fortunate to have an employer that lets me be flexible and values my contribution.  My work also keeps my life plenty interesting (and keeps me from watching / reading too much news, etc.). 

[RedmondStash]

For me, FI means having FU money, and FU money means a level of freedom and confidence such that I never had to put up with toxic or unfair crap at work again.

Having FU money means I was more honest with my bosses when they asked the team tough questions -- and afterwards, teammates privately thanked me for articulating what they were scared to say out loud.

It means when some idiot started disrespecting and hassling me at work, and their management did nothing to fix the situation, I could quit.

It means more confidence to speak truth to power, which, ironically, leads to being respected more in the workplace, not less.

And it means (well, meant) genuinely enjoying my job more, because I wasn't stressing out about money.

So, yeah, pretty huge difference for me.

[EscapeVelocity2020]

Trust me, I'm desperately trying to figure it out for the general population, if not just for myself.  As the market seems to be becoming volatile and potentially downward this year and for the foreseeable future, it would be great to hear from folks about what has bolstered their feeling that they are FI or at least how feeling FI has influenced them vs. non-FI.

[Monkey Uncle]

...it would be great to hear from folks about what has bolstered their feeling that they are FI...

For me, that part is all about the numbers.  I am well aware that I reached FI many years into a secular bull market, but it doesn't worry me because the simulations show that I have more than enough to survive the worst market conditions that history has ever served up.  Now it becomes all about keeping a watch on the input assumptions (spending and supplemental income streams like SS and pension) and having a back-up plan in case anything changes.

[RetirementInvestingToday]

For me the difference between FI and non-FI has been huge.  As somebody who has now been FI for a year or so I am in a fantastic place.  Interestingly, it's potentially becoming apparent that what I was actually chasing was FI and not FIRE.  It's also interesting to note that the difference has all been psychological as I'm still in the same home, job, country.

It's a topic that actually has been discussed on my blog over the last week.  So much discussion that it encouraged me to put up a fairly lengthy musing (http://www.retirementinvestingtoday.com/2018/04/its-starting-to-get-interesting-part-2.html) for anyone interested in reading more. 

[2Birds1Stone]

As someone who has been flirting with being absolutely barebone FI (Think geographical arbitrage and medical tourism), it feels like the pressure to perform at work for the security of money is melting away, and the satisfaction of work for the sake of work is increasing. Knowing I could work 3 days a week at McDonalds for minimum wage and live a comfortable middle class lifestyle for the rest of my life is amusing.

Once I hit 25X actual expenses I will chime back in here (currently @~16.5X)

[BudgetSlasher]

Toodle-oodle-doo mother f-ers!

LOL ok that’s how I want to sign off on my farewell email



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I want to use it in morse code at the end of a non-apporved email signature.

[dude]

I'll never forget one evening when I came home from work (right before I discovered MMM) and just starting crying. I said to my DH, "I can't do it. I can't keep working until 65." I was around 45 and my father had died suddenly at age 67 a year before. The thought of another 20 years of work, of possibly dying myself without having any time to retire was unbearable. "Why 65?" you ask. Well, that's because all I read about retirement used that age as an example. For example, this BS: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/ideal-retirement-age-work/396464/
I started reading about money and found MMM. Suddenly I discovered that we could be FI in 5 years if we stuck to a new plan. DH and I ran the numbers, I learned a LOT, adjusted some allocations (thanks to @Nords who explained how allocation is affected by a military pension https://the-military-guide.com/present-value-estimate-of-a-military-pension/), and suddenly I was only a few years from quitting my freaking job! Toodle-oodle-doo mother f-ers! Planning for and achieving FI saved me. My only regret is I wish I had fully understood this when I was in my 20s.

Man, no kidding -- I also thought I'd have to work until 65 back in the day, too. Realizing I was going to be forced to retired from my job at 57 (mandatory retirement), I used to think about what the hell it was I was going to do for a "bridge career" to get me to 65 (likely with millions in my portfolio). It wasn't until I discovered MMM and ideas about the 4% SWR and using your expenses to figure your retirement income (not some random percentage of your pre-retirement salary) and cutting idiotic spending, etc, etc, that I realized, holy shit, I can actually check out of the workforce for good at my pension eligibility age (53 and change). That was a monumental epiphany. Just under 13 months to go now . . .

[chops]

For me, FI means having FU money, and FU money means a level of freedom and confidence such that I never had to put up with toxic or unfair crap at work again.

Having FU money means I was more honest with my bosses when they asked the team tough questions -- and afterwards, teammates privately thanked me for articulating what they were scared to say out loud.

It means when some idiot started disrespecting and hassling me at work, and their management did nothing to fix the situation, I could quit.

It means more confidence to speak truth to power, which, ironically, leads to being respected more in the workplace, not less.

And it means (well, meant) genuinely enjoying my job more, because I wasn't stressing out about money.

So, yeah, pretty huge difference for me.

+ 1 to this.  Having significant FU $$ has made all the difference at work.  I used to be so concerned about how I was perceived to get raises/promotions etc.  Not anymore.  I do my best work because I want to, but I speak up on unpopular points and don't put up with any toxic crap anymore. 

 - Chops