Author Topic: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?  (Read 6665 times)

Southern Stashian

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Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« on: December 19, 2012, 09:48:27 AM »
I work as a service technician for a tech company (no, not the Geek Squad lol) and spend a lot of time in peoples homes. With my position, I deal with people who are at their wits end and looking for account credits, freebies, problems completely unrelated to us and people who are generally unhappy with their lives and wanting to complain. Sometimes its a legitimate problem, but in a lot of cases it's not. My position is to sort through the BS and get to the root of the issue, whether it's our fault or not.

I work in an area of Florida thats saturated with Nasa and government contractor engineers and employees, but also in areas with trailers, drug dealers, trashy homes and apartments so I see a wide variety of people and living situations in person. What I find is that in dealing with these diverse situations, no matter where you reside or what you do, people in general spend so much of their lives complaining and making excuses for their situation. I believe that with my type of position, I have seen the best and worst of people and their lives, so it keeps me grounded for where I want to end up at in life. It also reminds me on a daily basis the necessary steps to take in order to keep me from ending up like the people that I meet everyday. I truely believe that my position is thousands of times better than a degree in Psychology or Finance as being exposed to these circumstances has been a true blessing in our road to FI and ER.

I hear the stay at home wife of a Nasa engineer tell me that her husband is "someone important with a real job ...", makes soooo much money, talk endlessly about their "stuff" and then acts like a ten year old when they do not get their way. I go into homes with trash up to the ceiling and have people say "Excuse the house as we have not had a chance to clean up today" when in reality they have NEVER cleaned up anything. I hear the stories from doctors who "have lost everything after making one bad investment" but still are trying to portray their affluent lifestyle to the outside world as if they haven't learned a thing from their mistakes. I meet laid off Nasa engineers now living in their own filth, with no savings or fall back money after having a $100k + salary for 30 plus years. I meet people in their homes, unemployeed and completely stoned or drunk at 10 am but with a $200 per month cable bill. In almost every situation, the person claims to be the victim as life did not go as planned or they're trying to convince the world (or a complete stranger like me) of their importance.

In addition, there is no certain town or race of people who are worse off than the other. Two of my nastiest customers were a co-worker of mine and a neighbor that lived six houses up from me. Both are complete horders with animal feces and trash everywhere to the point that they should be committed to a mental ward. In these two examples, one is a white female and the other a black male, one lived in a trailer park and the other in a well kept middle class neighborhood, so I never assume someone is doing well for where they reside or who they are.

Is there anyone else out there with a position like mine and does it keep you grounded and make you appreciate what you have? Also, are you more of a Mustachian because of it? Thanks for your feedback!
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 11:52:06 AM by Southern Stashian »

happy

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 05:01:06 PM »
Well I used to do a lot of home visits and I was certainly struck by how many humble houses in lower cost suburbs had huge large screen TVs, and late model hotted up cars in the driveway. Vastly exceeding my normal size TV (I think its called small now) and 5-10 year old 4 cylinder car. 

I was probably visiting for different reasons because I don't recall hearing a lot of complainypants type comments. I certainly struck some wonderful folks with very humble houses and few possessions who would look at me and say  in all sincerity "well, there's worse off than us". (I would have to swallow my first response of "really?") Often they felt rich in their relationships. 

Southern Stashian

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 07:34:33 PM »
Well I used to do a lot of home visits and I was certainly struck by how many humble houses in lower cost suburbs had huge large screen TVs, and late model hotted up cars in the driveway. Vastly exceeding my normal size TV (I think its called small now) and 5-10 year old 4 cylinder car. 

I was probably visiting for different reasons because I don't recall hearing a lot of complainypants type comments. I certainly struck some wonderful folks with very humble houses and few possessions who would look at me and say  in all sincerity "well, there's worse off than us". (I would have to swallow my first response of "really?") Often they felt rich in their relationships.

Yeah, don't get me wrong. I have met many, many good people who I still keep in touch with to this day. The biggest motivating factor is seeing people who have had the world at their fingertips and ended up with nothing to show for it, and now they're miserable. It seems as the years have gone by I have come to appreciate what we have versus being focused on what we don't have. That's why I try to stay humble, always look at the positive side of things, work hard while I can and remember that nothing in life is guaranteed (except death and taxes, lol!).

destron

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 08:21:50 AM »
I would say no.

My current job (police officer) has a few disadvantages -- I am moved from station to station and forced to have a long, crappy anti-mustacian commute. Other officers like to spend money and there is a culture of going into debt to buy expensive toys like motorcycles, boats, and electronics. Of course you need an 8 cylinder truck to haul those toys around for the occasional trip out to the lake / sand dunes. Because we get a pension, people do not make an effort to save.

In officers' defense, they are a very hard-working group, will work extra hours on overtime if need be and do a lot of work on their own houses / cars.

Officers are especially cheap when it comes to food -- but that is only because it cuts into their toy / alcohol budget.

All in all, one has to be mustacian in spite of this bad influence. I enjoy seeing my deferred comp, Roth IRA and brokerage accounts grow while they complain that OT has been hard to come by lately.

Phemur

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 08:44:33 AM »
Great question. For me, it's not so much my work as the people I come into contact with regularly. I received my MBA two years ago, and I've stayed in touch with many of my graduating class. Contrary to popular opinion, most MBAs are actually quite nice, hard working people, and very few are millionaires and billionaires. However, they do tend to measure success by possessions, not by what they actually accomplished.

This helps remind me of my own goals of measuring success and happiness by accomplishments and relationships, rather than by possessions. And that, I think, is what makes me more of a Mustachian. Sure, this web site (and others) help shape my views and philosophies about money, and they certainly give me great ideas on being more Mustachian. But it just doesn't compare to seeing Mustachian and non-Mustachian behavior from the front row seats.

Bakari

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 01:27:15 PM »
Oh, absolutely, 100% yes!

My primary job consists of a couple different things: one is being a general handyman, and fixing things for people.  All sorts of things.  The usually drywall, electrical, plumbing.  Assembling IKEA furniture and putting up blinds.  Troubleshooting appliances, electronics, even the occasional automotive problem.  Building custom creations and solving random problems.  And doing it all for much less than a contractor / mechanic / replacement.  Which of course means I can also do all that stuff for myself.
The other part of the job is hauling away stuff people don't want anymore.  More than 1/2 is still useable.  I keep what looks useful, and sell or donate the rest.  My home is largely furnished with things people paid me to take from them.

(One of) my part time job(s) is as a bicycle mechanic in a commuter focused community bike shop (offering free valet bike parking at the local light rail station), which is a 15mile ride from home.

NWstubble

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 01:22:16 AM »
I would say yes. I travel internationally for work, outside of major cities where poverty can be quite preveleant. This has changed my perspective on "needs" quite a bit. Also, I am gone for long periods of time and when traveling all my expenses are covered by my employer, so kind of a forced savings if you will.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2012, 09:23:26 AM »
Yes, in a strange way.

I'm in high-tech sales, which can mean high-pressure. I HATE pressure for a number of reasons.

Having a decent and growing net worth takes the pressure off of me; if I don't hit all of my bonuses this year I'll still be more than ok because we can live on a small portion of our net income.

I also get a front row seat to watch my peers get caught up in lifestyle inflation, and this is a reminder of what NOT to do.

Best,

Mr. Pop

Gerard

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2012, 10:24:48 AM »
Yes: I work at a university, where status is rarely based on possessions and many people maintain their frugal grad student ways for their whole lives. Result: I can dress like shit and nobody cares.

No: We have a decent DB pension plan (and Canadian social safety net), and most of us really love our jobs, so there's not a strong motivation to save.

Matte

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2012, 03:15:15 PM »
I would say yes, being in a heavy industrial environment and hands on type work helPs.  Nobody wants to talk about what they paid someone else to do.  The 12hr shifts and 3 day work week make for way less commuting, having irregular paychecks really forces budgeting.  We also have a pension plus savings accounts that we can get taken right our paycheck.  There are defenetly a few who end up with very little, but they are the excePtion to the rule and generally the only people who have financial problems have divorced or are really bad with money. Average retirement is about 55-60, peoples biggest complaints are Capitol gains taxes on investment property and such.  It may be a saving grace but overtime is near unlimited and at double time, so it's relatively easy to work yourself out of any hole .

Richard3

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2012, 06:53:38 PM »
If anything, my previous job made me less mustachian because I was around a lot of (other) high income earners, which meant there was a lot of social pressure / opportunity to go out drinking and eating at restaurants etc. I was naturally pretty frugal though, so it's not like I became a total consumer sucka.

Now I work remotely, it's made me more mustachian as I am trying to travel and snowboard and still save money while only working 20 hours a week.

rusty

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2012, 07:28:27 AM »
I used to be a multi-line insurance agent (home,auto,life,health).  I would do policy reviews in the homes of clients (later in my career reviews were held at my office) and was often shocked by the lack of savings/investments and the amount of debt.

Had one client I remember talking to about a low cost term insurance policy for him.  Wife was recently laid off, two kids, he was only income and no savings.  He told me he could not afford $30/month for that policy.  Two weeks later, he came in to the office and wanted to insure a $50,000 (new price) boat he re-fi'ed his house to buy.  He got the boat for $25k.  That was his second boat and still has both boats.   

About 5% of my working clients could handle being without a paycheck for 3 months.  It makes me crazy.  That was one of the reasons I went out on my own.  I wanted leave the corporate bs, save more, and try to develop an online insurance business that can be run from anywhere.

Self-employed-swami

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 08:18:17 AM »
Yes and no...

I work on a drilling rig, and so I'm far away from home about 2 weeks a month.  When I am at work, I get $50-75/day for food (seriously overkill, since I most often grocery shop and cook for a week, on what I am paid per day).  Often I am in the middle of no where, so I have little opportunity to spend my money, even if I wanted to (unless I do some internet shopping, which I rarely do now).  I drive a used vehicle that I have paid off, and we are all paid varying degrees of what people would consider a good income, and I see lots of people I work with, struggling to make ends meet, because they have financed a new truck every other year (or every year for some) and all the recreational toys (boats, quads, guns, etc).

I do eat out when I get a chance at work, because it is a good mental break to get away, and I find that when I am home, I do eat out more often than I should, as a way to maintain business contacts, and old work friends from before I moved to the field.  Sometimes I find myself in the trap of buying things because I can, and not because I need them (such as clothing), but I'm making a much more conscious effort not to.

I am also able to hammer away at my mortgage, and my husband's student loan because of how much I can bring in, which we wouldn't be able to do, if I was still in an office position, making $70,000 less a year.

Southern Stashian

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2012, 09:01:08 AM »
In my line of work there are subcontractors that make a pretty nice living, making $800 to $5000 per week less expenses (fuel, vehicles, insurance, taxes, cell phones, tools ....). I came from that side of the fence to work directly for the company a few years back due to getting a little bit older, having fluctuating paychecks and lousy health insurance with a family of five. While I am not making $2000 per week anymore (more like $1000 - $1500 weekly now), we actually live better than before with less of an income due to adopting a more Mustachian way of living.

I constantly have these former co-workers from the contracting side inquire about getting a position with me. I ask why, if they're making that kind of money would they want to leave? The answer is always that they see us living better now, being stress free, having pension and retirement accounts with multiple weeks of vacation while they can't seem to make it on their higher incomes. I remind them that I am not making the kind of money that I used to but have become more in tune with our wants versus our needs, have been cutting our expenses while enjoying raises every year (the most recent 6.5% for me and 9.3% for my wife) and saving / investing a majority of our combined $110k income. With my salary I also enjoy other perks (a free company vehicle to take home with all expenses paid, matching 401k to 10%, a pension ....) that saves us money and adds another $25k per year to my income but is invisible in terms of being monetary until we balance out our weekly budget and review our retirement accounts. My former co-workers don't see this though and only see the $$$ (short-terminitis, lol), hence why they back off when they find out that they will initially be making 50% less if they come to work with me (but want to be in my position as though it was just magically given to me).

It's amazing to see where we were at when I was bringing in $100k per year, wife another $40k for a combined income of $140k and were still struggling (where my former co-workers are at now). Over the past four years we have adopted a more Mustachian lifestyle while working my way back to the former $100k salary that I had through semi yearly raises and hard work. We have been so much better off due to becoming more frugal with our money, reducing our debt and saving more of our incomes for investing. Within the next three to five years we will be approaching $175k in combined yearly income (and over $200k with my perks) and living off of just $25k (10%) with absolutely no debt of any kind. At that time, if not sooner, we will be able to step back from work or retire completely but no one believes that this can be possible. Hell, my not so Mustachian in laws (a physician and long term dental hygienist in their mid 60's) have just reached their seven figure retirement goal (1 million) and we will be retiring 20 years ahead of them on a significantly smaller income with three kids. My co-workers don't believe that this is possible and haven't seen the light yet, but hopefully they will in the future.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2012, 09:39:22 AM by Southern Stashian »

mindaugas

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2012, 10:42:08 AM »
Before I found my new job I was working a ton of hours and felt trapped. I thought I had to work that many hours to earn that level of income. Feeling trapped I started cutting expenses simply so I could take a job making half the amount for less hours. That all started me on the path to frugality. In the end I found a new job with less hours and more pay but I always thought the reason behind my new frugality was a strange one.

I work in IT which I feel can help save money or help spend it. To avoid upgrading my gaming PC I overclocked my proc. I weened us off cable by building a HTPC with our own personal netflix from parts leftover from my more spendy days. My server is older hardware that hosts virtual machines vs buying used rack mount servers and running a mini data center in my basement like some of my coworkers. I am also trying to apply this mindset to other aspects of life to extend the use of items and choosing to use less expensive items over others.

sheepstache

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2013, 08:34:52 PM »
Destron: I'm wondering if a certain 'sieze the day' mentality affects police officers' attitudes towards money?  That is, since it's a high-risk job, are they more concerned with getting enjoyment out of their money in the here and now?  I could also see the opposite, that since it's a high-risk job they figure it's good to have a stash so they don't have to stay in it any longer than they want to.  So I'm curious.

I was certainly struck by how many humble houses in lower cost suburbs had huge large screen TVs, and late model hotted up cars in the driveway.
To be fair, that might mean that they really liked having a great TV or cool car but didn't care about keeping up with the Jones or living in a "hot" neighborhood and prioritized their spending accordingly.

Definitely agree there is a lot of mismatch between appearances and substance.

Crash87

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 09:33:29 AM »
Mine definately makes me more mustachian.

I'm a tax auditor, so I see a huge variety of life styles. I've had a front row seat to what debt can do to someone's life. I've also noticed that hardly anyone with a 60-70 hour work week seems happy, even if they make $300k+.

James

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 09:55:17 AM »
Another yes and no here.  Like the OP, I see a lot of "what not to do" in both the people I work in and the people I take care of.  Health care workers tend to make decent money and many spend most of it on consumerist things.  But I also see people around me who have made good investments with their money, much better than I did prior to reading MMM.  I also see a lot of patients that make me appreciate how easy it is to truly destroy your health, and others who make me appreciate how much we lack in control over our own lives.  Someone who is perfectly fit and health gets cancer, someone else eats and smokes themselves into a horrible existence, etc.  It's not so much what you see, it's what you do with that.  You can become jaded and join in the crowd, or you can learn from others mistakes and successes and become better for the experiences you have.  I do think jobs that provide experiences outside of our comfort zones can provide a big benefit to our lives if we let them.

WhatMomWears

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2013, 09:05:19 PM »
Oy. No. My career made me so anti-mustachian it's scary. I worked in Private Equity for an investment bank and a privately owned company. The investment bank was the worst. So much 'keeping up with what the guy in the next office bought/had/went'. I was made fun of for bringing my lunch to save money. I was called cheap for not buying, subscribing to whatever. My boss would spend HOURS describing his landscaping, vacation house, the vacations they were taking (not to the house), the clubs he signed up for, etc, etc, etc. After years it would have taken thicker skin than mine to resist the desire to keep up. It was a toxic environment and I've never been happier since I left. It's taken me 2+ years to get the odor of that place off of me and to get the crazy need to Buy! Spend! Consume! out of my system and I fight it almost every day. Having my son helped - I don't want him growing up like that. Privileged and unappreciative.

destron

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 08:34:42 AM »
Destron: I'm wondering if a certain 'sieze the day' mentality affects police officers' attitudes towards money?  That is, since it's a high-risk job, are they more concerned with getting enjoyment out of their money in the here and now?  I could also see the opposite, that since it's a high-risk job they figure it's good to have a stash so they don't have to stay in it any longer than they want to.  So I'm curious.

There is some truth to that line of thinking. Officers, in general, have a devil-may-care towards property in general. This means that we do not take of the equipment we use very well. I think there are many factors involved. One is that, yes, you could be killed at any moment so nothing really matters. Another is that, at least with our work equipment, if something breaks the city ends up replacing it so who cares. Another is that we feel we don't need to save because we have a pension, so let's spend all the money we can (never mind that I believe the pension will be modified by the time I could collect on it, or even after I start collecting).

Phoebe

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 08:49:31 AM »
Yes.  Like Mr. Pop I am in high tech sales and those around me are most definitely not mustachian.  But what I notice most is how unhappy they are (particularly the women).  Many of them have made their careers their lives and have forgone relationships and children, and are now at a time when it is too late (to have biological children).  It reminds me that work and success in the traditional sense are not everything and will not promise happiness.  There are times that I can't imagine retiring because I like the respect I get from having a successful career, but seeing those around me miserable keeps me headed in the right direction.

shadowmoss

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Re: Does your line of work make you more of a Mustachian?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 09:29:33 AM »
I'm a DOD contractor working in IT in a 3rd world country.  There are financial perks, and I just paid off all my credit cards and my Jeep (in storage back home).  I do see the guys (I'm the only female US national on the contract at the moment) sending a lot on drinking and driving big trucks that stick out like sore thumbs here and traveling.  The only thing I envy is the traveling.  I am so wanting to be able to afford to come back to the US that I haven't taken advantage of any of the travel opportunities of living in Central America.

Previously, as in 5 years ago or so, I was a Dell service tech who went out to folks' homes to fix their computers.  I did see a lot.  One pivotal visit was to a very upper middle class, new McMansion in the town nearest the Army post.  As the perfectly dressed in Mommy casual clothes walked me past the large doll house in the foyer telling me how upset the kids were that the computer was down I was mentally rolling my eyes.  The call had been put in her husband's name, and he aparently wasn't there, as she said that he was the one who really knew the computer.  I was really looking down my nose at her inside, as she was also blond.

Then she explained that her husband had just been killed in Afghanistan and all his emails to them were locked on the non-working computer.  I worked for 2 hours on that computer, amazed as I watched her grace in handling the phone calls from family and visits from other Military.  I left in tears, but her computer was working and all the emails and pictures were backed up to external storage.  And that is in large part what has me working with the military now.  And, I learned that a large, perfect McMansion hides some really great folks sometimes if I just look past the external.