How did you escape the desire for luxury?

[Ricky]

Second the person who suggested taking your next vacation in an area with a low "standard of living," with the proviso that you have to live like the locals as much as possible. To break your addiction you need to lower your baseline of consumption. That little serotonin ratchet in your brain can go in reverse; getting it started is the hardest part.

Other techniques that work for me:

* Go hiking – seriously. There's nothing like living out of a pack for a week to make you realize how little you really need. When you get back to civilization, a hot shower and a pizza will feel like an incredible luxury.

* Practice not buying things. I do this fairly often: Go to the store (whatever store has stuff you're actually tempted to buy) and spend 20-30 minutes just ogling things, reveling in your own consumer lust... and then leave without buying a single thing. This is sort of like an inoculation, and builds willpower.

* Use the technique of visualization to associate superficially attractive products with negative outcomes. You can use whatever images work for you. For example, when I'm at the grocery store looking at some conventionally grown oranges shipped in from South Africa, I visualize toxic chemicals wafting off, people doing chemo, etc. See steaks or sausages – visualize horrific CAFOs and slaughterhouses. Maybe you can visualize yourself dying penniless in a nursing home the next time you see that expensive scotch? After a while the negative association becomes automatic and the urge to buy is no longer felt. (Films and exposé articles can be a good source of imagery for this type of exercise.)

Those are good tips. I go in the Apple store frequently and stare the 27" iMac in the face occasionally :P Long live the physical store. I would've already ordered it online had it not been for the store. Once I get to the store, I realize I'd rather have my money than the product.

[Basenji]

Also WRT the booze, learn to avoid connoisseurship. It is a surefire way to make yourself less happy. Instead of enjoying scotch, getting a little buzz and being happy about it you'll be thinking about how much better a different version would be and how what you're drinking is inferior. Do you want to have a well refined palate, or be happy and have more money? If you're here already it should be an easy choice.

Interesting because I would argue the opposite, if done right. I have a professional certificate in tasting/evaluating a particular alcoholic beverage. One thing that makes me sad is seeing crazy expensive bottles on restaurant menus or in shops. Some of these bottles are literally priced for hype. I buy excellence, not status. Value becomes the connoisseur's game: what is the least expensive but still excellent product? Don't buy hype, become educated. Sure you'll spend more than most if you really love X, but if X is that important to you you'll start to pursue the rarest drink of all, the best priced, best drink for the majority of your drinking.

In my classes and on some travel I have done I have had a chance to taste some very unusual and almost priceless versions of my hobby drink. Super fascinating and it helped educate my palate, but do I want to drink that all the time? I honestly don't. Find a "house" scotch that is best value and every once in a while try out a taste or a glass of the rarities.

And if you aren't already a real expert and scotch isn't your absolute passion, then don't buy the most expensive bottle. Instead, learn more, talk to experts about value products, go to tastings.

[rockstache]

Also WRT the booze, learn to avoid connoisseurship. It is a surefire way to make yourself less happy. Instead of enjoying scotch, getting a little buzz and being happy about it you'll be thinking about how much better a different version would be and how what you're drinking is inferior. Do you want to have a well refined palate, or be happy and have more money? If you're here already it should be an easy choice.

Interesting because I would argue the opposite, if done right. I have a professional certificate in tasting/evaluating a particular alcoholic beverage. One thing that makes me sad is seeing crazy expensive bottles on restaurant menus or in shops. Some of these bottles are literally priced for hype. I buy excellence, not status. Value becomes the connoisseur's game: what is the least expensive but still excellent product? Don't buy hype, become educated. Sure you'll spend more than most if you really love X, but if X is that important to you you'll start to pursue the rarest drink of all, the best priced, best drink for the majority of your drinking.

In my classes and on some travel I have done I have had a chance to taste some very unusual and almost priceless versions of my hobby drink. Super fascinating and it helped educate my palate, but do I want to drink that all the time? I honestly don't. Find a "house" scotch that is best value and every once in a while try out a taste or a glass of the rarities.

And if you aren't already a real expert and scotch isn't your absolute passion, then don't buy the most expensive bottle. Instead, learn more, talk to experts about value products, go to tastings.

Slightly off topic, but wondering out of curiosity what you would put on your 'top 3' list of these beverages that are good in taste and price?

[Yaeger]

Same, I grew up poor and ever since I've graduated from college I've tried keeping my expenses at the same level as my first career salary. No fancy purchases, no nice apartments, I live like I'm in my early 20's still. I started out after college between 50-60k a year, making the TSP max and putting some extra into savings. Whenever I get a promotion, or a raise higher than inflation, 100% of it goes into savings on top of what I've already been saving. Also, I actively tweak my budget to analyze my spending habits, bills, and other means to save money. It's become both a hobby and a financial education finding creative ways to free up money. It's a little gift to myself, recently I switched to Project Fi from Verizon and I supplement my entertainment fund with the savings.

Bonuses or tax returns I usually plan in advance towards something specific like bulking up my emergency fund, purchasing some investments, doing some vehicle work, getting a Rolex, purchasing gifts for someone else, or buying something like an AR-15. That's where I struggle with a desire of luxury.

Yaeger, I would have never guessed that you're the Rolex type! You seem a little too no nonsense for that.  I'm not hating though.  I like natural stone in my house (kitchen and baths) and have blown thousands on that which is about the same level of unmastachianess as a Rolex.

I tricked myself into thinking that a luxury item like a Rolex maintains its value better than most other frivolous assets I might buy. Not an investment, just a less wasteful feel-good purchase.

Besides, I'm a single guy and that bling really draws the ladies. My Mustachian lifestyle really doesn't seem to have that draw. =/

[czr]

Luxury is not bad as long as you live below your means and save money. Luxury tends to fill a short term need but it is a concern only if you are ignoring your long-term financial success. The positive is that it sounds like you have at least you’ve recognized you have a problem that and are now on YNAB and you seem young so time is on your side. Just stick to your strict budgeting, pay off your consumer debt, and pay yourself first via automatic paycheck deductions before it gets to your spending bank account and you should be fine.  You are a perfect candidate to listed to Dave Ramsey podcasts. I listen every now and then just to keep me in check and for entertaining me about stories of people doing really dumb things with debt so I don’t follow their footsteps. Keep talking to your frugal friend at work and have a goal set out of when you want to retire and work backwards to achieve it.  Saving money is a skill.

[gggggg]

Same, I grew up poor and ever since I've graduated from college I've tried keeping my expenses at the same level as my first career salary. No fancy purchases, no nice apartments, I live like I'm in my early 20's still. I started out after college between 50-60k a year, making the TSP max and putting some extra into savings. Whenever I get a promotion, or a raise higher than inflation, 100% of it goes into savings on top of what I've already been saving. Also, I actively tweak my budget to analyze my spending habits, bills, and other means to save money. It's become both a hobby and a financial education finding creative ways to free up money. It's a little gift to myself, recently I switched to Project Fi from Verizon and I supplement my entertainment fund with the savings.

Bonuses or tax returns I usually plan in advance towards something specific like bulking up my emergency fund, purchasing some investments, doing some vehicle work, getting a Rolex, purchasing gifts for someone else, or buying something like an AR-15. That's where I struggle with a desire of luxury.

Yaeger, I would have never guessed that you're the Rolex type! You seem a little too no nonsense for that.  I'm not hating though.  I like natural stone in my house (kitchen and baths) and have blown thousands on that which is about the same level of unmastachianess as a Rolex.

I tricked myself into thinking that a luxury item like a Rolex maintains its value better than most other frivolous assets I might buy. Not an investment, just a less wasteful feel-good purchase.

Besides, I'm a single guy and that bling really draws the ladies. My Mustachian lifestyle really doesn't seem to have that draw. =/

I'd get one for you, and not the ladies.They do hold their value ok, but the servicing gets pretty expensive. Even my old TAG was about $600 to service.

[Kitsune]

Same, I grew up poor and ever since I've graduated from college I've tried keeping my expenses at the same level as my first career salary. No fancy purchases, no nice apartments, I live like I'm in my early 20's still. I started out after college between 50-60k a year, making the TSP max and putting some extra into savings. Whenever I get a promotion, or a raise higher than inflation, 100% of it goes into savings on top of what I've already been saving. Also, I actively tweak my budget to analyze my spending habits, bills, and other means to save money. It's become both a hobby and a financial education finding creative ways to free up money. It's a little gift to myself, recently I switched to Project Fi from Verizon and I supplement my entertainment fund with the savings.

Bonuses or tax returns I usually plan in advance towards something specific like bulking up my emergency fund, purchasing some investments, doing some vehicle work, getting a Rolex, purchasing gifts for someone else, or buying something like an AR-15. That's where I struggle with a desire of luxury.

Yaeger, I would have never guessed that you're the Rolex type! You seem a little too no nonsense for that.  I'm not hating though.  I like natural stone in my house (kitchen and baths) and have blown thousands on that which is about the same level of unmastachianess as a Rolex.

I tricked myself into thinking that a luxury item like a Rolex maintains its value better than most other frivolous assets I might buy. Not an investment, just a less wasteful feel-good purchase.

Besides, I'm a single guy and that bling really draws the ladies. My Mustachian lifestyle really doesn't seem to have that draw. =/

The guy I know who consistently gets offers (we're talking multiple offers per night, when I've been around him) is super low-key, dresses average (... navy khakis, button-down shirt, buzz cut hair), looks cute but in a super average way, objectively... and is an AMAZING cook, has a gift for finding interesting things to read/see/shows to go to/things to discuss/etc, and has great charisma. This is the guy who'll walk into a party with a perfectly-made layer cake and some dip and chips (oh, man, that food *swoon*), be super into everything, genuinely enthusiastic about everything, and his idea of 'first date/getting to know you' is to invite someone over for dinner (note: this mostly works because he has a great rep for not being creepy and knows a lot of people who will vouch for that. DO NOT invite a woman you don't know to your house for a first date when you haven't met in a context like that).

Simultaneously impressive and seriously mustachian. Also means he tends to attract ladies who are more impressed by hikes, good shows at small bars, and excellent food - probably a more favourable demographic to your long-term interests. ;)

[ubermom4]

FEAR. Our lives are full of fantastic events and the  perfectly dreadful. Great workers are fired and have difficulty finding work, salaries are cut 50%, people are injured in accidents caused by someone else, disease, heartbreak, etc. I firmly believe that there are plenty of bad things happening all over the place that one may or may not  be able to protect themselves from. Having no debt and plenty of cash helps to protect one's self from the calamities that are part of our human experience. If you make bad decisions with your money, when one of these bad things happens to you it will be extremely difficult for you. Luxuries are fine, if they don't put you at risk. With debt and no 'stache you are very much at risk and simply are unaware of this fact.

Great job at tracking your expenses and contemplating cutting them. This new life probably seems overwhelming to you. It might be best to focus on one expense and see how much you can cut it. Cable bill, anyone? Spend a couple of weeks focussing on this one item, pat yourself on the back and move on to the next category. This site is full of tips for attacking each category.  Focussing on one expense and trying to kill it  will give you a sense of accomplishment. Eating the elephant is done one bite at a time.

Others have suggested and I totally agree -- stop shopping as a hobby. It is a terrible hobby. It doesn't make you smarter, more creative, kinder, nicer, etc. It will only sow envy which is insanely destructive. Switching to paper cash for 'miscellaneous' or impulse purchases might really help you. I know this doesn't appeal to lots of folks here because it is not rational but it can work. At least repeatedly going to the ATM would let you know there is a problem.  In one sense, capitalism is a battle to control the soldiers you hold in your wallet. When you hand over those soldiers, they are no longer helping you and you can't get them back. Your helpers  that you worked so hard to get, that the government took from you earlier (payroll deduction) are gone forever.

Sorry about being so dystopian early on -- everyone else was kindly trying to pull you along and I thought a push might be a nice change. You are on the right track, just keep moving forward with the baby steps. Good luck!

[Basenji]

And if you aren't already a real expert and scotch isn't your absolute passion, then don't buy the most expensive bottle. Instead, learn more, talk to experts about value products, go to tastings.

Slightly off topic, but wondering out of curiosity what you would put on your 'top 3' list of these beverages that are good in taste and price?

My beverage is Japanese sake. PM me if you like sake.

But for a more general applicability, there are all kinds of "best value" lists out there for wine, beer, etc., on sites/pubs specializing in the tipple of choice. I'd argue my point about finding best value rather than the bling version applies to almost all luxuries. There's a money line that one crosses when you don't get more quality, you're just buying what you think is status which is silly.

[neo von retorch]

If you make $50k after taxes, and you save $20k per year (including paying off debt in this stage), going from net worth $0...
It will take 37.5 years to build up your nest egg to retirement. $500 / mo excess spending, or $6000 / year can swing this either way.

If you now save $26k per year, it'll only take 23 years to build up that next egg. (This actually assumes ZERO investment gains, which is a terrible assumption.)
If you instead save only $14k per year, it'll take 64 years to build up that nest egg.

Umm... is $500 / month in spending worth that many years of your life working?

(5000 internet points to anyone that corrects my math with numbers that include investment gains!)

[dougules]

Biggest takeaway I'd got from your post: You are equating your own self-worth from the cost of material goods and objects you can acquire - so the more fancy or expensive, the better you feel? You seem to have some self esteem issues in that you think you must reward yourself with fancy things to feel happy. Might want to start discussing this with a counselor instead of falling further down the rabbit hole of defining yourself from the things you own and consume.

+1  It sounds to me like the addiction to luxuries is not the root of the issue. 

One other thing, start thinking of frugality as a status symbol instead of luxuries.  My grandmother will brag about buying a really nice dress at the thrift store for $3.  This a complete 180 from people who brag about paying $300 for it, but it's using the same idea to your advantage instead of your detriment. 

I pulled up behind a Porsche Cayenne on my bike a couple months ago, and for some weird reason felt a twinge of inferiority complex.   Then I realized because of my frugality I could have a couple of those bought in cash within a few days if I wanted to (not that I would).   No more inferiority complex.  The thought felt way better than buying the Porsche probably would. 

[forumname123]

Eating out in the States is so cheap haha. Just grabbing a fast food meal will run me $15 in Canada. An average sit down restaurant I expect to hit $40 - $50.

If you think that's true then you're not trying hard enough, because this just isn't true. It's very easy to get fast food meals for $5-6 in Canada (nearly all of them have value menus/coupons/etc), and there are an abundance of sit-down restaurants where you can easily spend under $15-20 with tax and tip.

If you want to improve you have to stop making excuses like these (I know you already know that, just pointing it out again)

[cheapass]

+1  It sounds to me like the addiction to luxuries is not the root of the issue. 

One other thing, start thinking of frugality as a status symbol instead of luxuries.  My grandmother will brag about buying a really nice dress at the thrift store for $3.  This a complete 180 from people who brag about paying $300 for it, but it's using the same idea to your advantage instead of your detriment. 

I pulled up behind a Porsche Cayenne on my bike a couple months ago, and for some weird reason felt a twinge of inferiority complex.   Then I realized because of my frugality I could have a couple of those bought in cash within a few days if I wanted to (not that I would).   No more inferiority complex.  The thought felt way better than buying the Porsche probably would.

I do the same thing as you when I see a spendypants car or advertisement. We saw an ad on TV to lease an Infiniti SUV for $800/mo. or something and I said to the wife "Hey, with the amount we're saving each month we could have 4 or 5 of those, YOLO!!!"

[EnjoyIt]

If you make $50k after taxes, and you save $20k per year (including paying off debt in this stage), going from net worth $0...
It will take 37.5 years to build up your nest egg to retirement. $500 / mo excess spending, or $6000 / year can swing this either way.

If you now save $26k per year, it'll only take 23 years to build up that next egg. (This actually assumes ZERO investment gains, which is a terrible assumption.)
If you instead save only $14k per year, it'll take 64 years to build up that nest egg.

Umm... is $500 / month in spending worth that many years of your life working?

(5000 internet points to anyone that corrects my math with numbers that include investment gains!)

For 5,000 points
Our goal is $1.25 million for $50k spending at 4% SWR
I used 5% real return on investments

saving $20k per year will get you to $1.25 million in 28.5 years
saving $26k will take 24.67 years
saving $14k will take 34.17 years

[zombiehunter]

OP, here's a thought experiment for you for luxury cars.  I use it for the Range Rover Sport (my dream) but could work very well for the Tesla as well.  This is like exploring the levels of "Inception", where you can keep going down one level.

First - see the shape of the car, it's beautiful lines and polished materials.  Styling that evokes a sense of movement and luxury.  Just revel in the physical impression of looking at the car and seeing it for the well-designed, expensive, super machine that it is.

Second - see the car, but in place of its physical appear, transform the shape of the car and the space it occupies in your minds eye to a big pile of money and coins.  Instead of seeing the black Range Rover sport with 20 inch wheels or the Tesla with the beautiful touch screen display, see a pile of money - a big pile.  $90,000 in cash and coin.  Enough that scrooge mcduck could swim in all that coin.  You'd need a mini-storage to house it in if you had just singles.  Ok, that makes it a bit less appealing, as the "pain" button in my brain is working on balancing out the "pleasure" sensor that is activated by looking at the car (and to be honest, consuming the advertising and branding that invariably comes along with the physical car itself).

Third - transform that pile of cash and coin into time.  It's hard to see in physical form, but imagine how long it would take you to earn that $90k.  Let's say you make a lot of money, and it would just be 6-8 months.  Don't forget, after tax -- so more like 10-12 months.  Think about yourself getting up early every day, going to work to sit in the office, the stress of the workplace.  It's a long time.  Suddenly the pain of cost easily outweighs the pleasure of luxury consumption.  It would feel like bliss to sit in those leather seats and cruise around with that stereo, but it's not worth the time it would take you to earn the cash.

Fourth - transform that time with your discount value.  This is even more difficult to visualize.  What if you had $90,000 in your hand right now, and you could either instantly trade it for fine leather and engineering, or you could instantly invest it for 25 years?  Now that cash on hand is $488,000.  Think of the years that would support you.  Think of the daily leisure and travel and freedom that would bring. 

Now go back and compare the last stage -- security, freedom, relaxation -- with the physical dimensions of the first stage -- metal, glass, rubber.  It's much more compelling to trade the physical luxury for the emotional luxury. 

[Gremlin]

Three questions I ask myself:

What do I want most in life?
What do I want now?
Which is more important?

[Cyaphas]

I don't think I ever 'escaped' it. I just started running the numbers.

Is this thing I'm going to buy worth delaying my retirement?

Can I get something just as adequate for less?

Do I have time to actually use or even will I use this thing?

Did I need it yesterday? Why do I need it today?

How much is this going to cost me to maintain and store?

How easy is this thing to steal and would I miss it because it was useful or because it was expensive?

[Dollar Slice]

Third - transform that pile of cash and coin into time.  It's hard to see in physical form, but imagine how long it would take you to earn that $90k.  Let's say you make a lot of money, and it would just be 6-8 months.  Don't forget, after tax -- so more like 10-12 months.  Think about yourself getting up early every day, going to work to sit in the office, the stress of the workplace.  It's a long time.  Suddenly the pain of cost easily outweighs the pleasure of luxury consumption.  It would feel like bliss to sit in those leather seats and cruise around with that stereo, but it's not worth the time it would take you to earn the cash.

Another way to look at the cash=time conversion. Say you keep that car for 10 years, and for the sake of argument let's say you drive an hour a day on average (quite a lot for a mustachian!). That means your total drive time is ~3650 hours, and at $90,000 that's over $24/hr. Maybe round that up to $30/hr once you add in gas, repairs, insurance, and so on (a low estimate, but it's a nice round number).

Now imagine that instead of paying a bill once a month and forgetting about it, you have to pay as you go. Feeding it quarters like an old-school arcade game. You'll be feeding it a quarter every thirty goddamn seconds that you are in the car. For TEN years.

[MsFrugal]

I used to love luxury ,I thought it made me look better then everyone else, then one day I bought a designer brooch. It broke, I took it back to the store and they  exchanged it. Thing is they brought out a battered cardboard box full of the 'designer'  brooches in cheap plastic bags, picked one out and popped it into the designer packaging. That's when i realized my hard earned money was making someone else rich and me look stupid.

[aceyou]

I used to love luxury ,I thought it made me look better then everyone else, then one day I bought a designer brooch. It broke, I took it back to the store and they  exchanged it. Thing is they brought out a battered cardboard box full of the 'designer'  brooches in cheap plastic bags, picked one out and popped it into the designer packaging. That's when i realized my hard earned money was making someone else rich and me look stupid.

I like that story. 

[Spiffsome]

I have a bunch of different things that added up:

'Your Money or Your Life': in this book, they encourage you to view your spending as hours of your life. You're never getting those hours back, so make sure that whatever you're spending them on is worth it. Is the luxury car really worth three or four times the hours of the simpler one?

Friends who live simply. Humans are social creatures and 'monkey see, monkey do' is a big thing. Surround yourself with good people who enjoy conversation, home-cooked meals and cheap entertainment.

Simple hobbies. If you're spending your time volunteering, exercising, making things, playing an instrument or enjoying board games, you'll have less time for more expensive pursuits.

[CU Tiger]

Get rid of advertising.

Cancel cable/satellite, don't listen to commercial radio, get rid of magazines/newspapers with advertisements, install ad blockers on your internet browsers, etc.

Too right. I rarely look at TV or read magazines, but recently I looked at a GQ magazine. The ads for expensive men's watches, alcohol, clothes, sunglasses, etc., were the crazy. The prices on some of the watches were more than I paid for my last car.

If you do not know that shit is out there you will not want it.

Also, redefine luxury. Luxury is notguzzling a bottle of super pricy booze. It is finding a reasonably priced bottle you can enjoy while enjoying the security of a high net worth.

[acanthurus]

You need to look at your situation and realize how utterly disgusting it is.

 *Disgusting*.

Reading over your spending habits did not in any way seem like you had any luxury in life. It was akin to hearing a morbidly obese diabetic describing the dozen donuts they had for breakfast before having a supersized big mac meal for lunch and lamenting after about the foot they are going to lose next week. You are the financial equivalent of the fat people using the scooters at the grocery store with the cart full of twinkies and ice cream.

Quit your bullshit and start saving some real fucking money. 50%. Pretax. No excuses. Do it for a month and come back. Until then you're not serious.

[rockstache]

And if you aren't already a real expert and scotch isn't your absolute passion, then don't buy the most expensive bottle. Instead, learn more, talk to experts about value products, go to tastings.

Slightly off topic, but wondering out of curiosity what you would put on your 'top 3' list of these beverages that are good in taste and price?

My beverage is Japanese sake. PM me if you like sake.

But for a more general applicability, there are all kinds of "best value" lists out there for wine, beer, etc., on sites/pubs specializing in the tipple of choice. I'd argue my point about finding best value rather than the bling version applies to almost all luxuries. There's a money line that one crosses when you don't get more quality, you're just buying what you think is status which is silly.

I totally agree with your premise. I was just hoping your beverage *was* scotch and you had done some of the research for me. ;)

[LuxuryIsADrug]

You need to look at your situation and realize how utterly disgusting it is.

 *Disgusting*.

Reading over your spending habits did not in any way seem like you had any luxury in life. It was akin to hearing a morbidly obese diabetic describing the dozen donuts they had for breakfast before having a supersized big mac meal for lunch and lamenting after about the foot they are going to lose next week. You are the financial equivalent of the fat people using the scooters at the grocery store with the cart full of twinkies and ice cream.

Quit your bullshit and start saving some real fucking money. 50%. Pretax. No excuses. Do it for a month and come back. Until then you're not serious.

I like you.

[galliver]

I feel like this hasn't been emphasized enough: you force yourself into a lifestyle that has nothing you love, and you'll hate it and you won't stick with it. Maybe you'll tough it out a month or two, but not for 20 years.

You mention some things you like: your fancy car, your $500 Scotch, eating out. But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

Focus on these things. Consciously enjoy them (think, "isn't it awesome that I can ___?") Do them more (not so much more that inexpensive things become expensive, of course...). These are the guilt-free pleasures of your financial "diet." Start with the ones you love and then maybe you'll find some new ones with time.

So I guess, in a nutshell, you can escape the desire for luxury by replacing it with desires for other things. Simple and inexpensive luxuries.

[pdxmonkey]

Note: Canadian

I'm a consumer. It's the only thing I've ever known and done. Last year I made my first step to changing this by reading The Millionaire Next Door. Shortly thereafter, I was introduced to MMM's blog by a co-worker. Frugality comes to him naturally; luxury does not tempt him. Sadly, this meant he had no tips or helpful advice for escaping luxury's grasp.

I do have a plan in place for my debt and it is slowly dropping. Could I be more aggressive? I could but this is new territory for me. I've continually relapsed on reducing spending over the last 18 months so I decided to start using YNAB. Starting in January 2016 I have paid off $10,000 of $29,000 owed. My net worth now hover's around $0.

My main problems:

• I'm not treating my debt as an emergency
• I'm addicted to luxury

Recent luxuries mistakes:

• Flying business class for an upcoming vacation to visit a friend (3x cost of economy while I'm still in debt)
• Leasing a 2016 Subaru WRX Sport-Tech which is not at all Mustachian
• Eating out far too often ($200-$400/mth)
• Expensive alcohol (I've been eyeing the Glennfiddich Excellence 26 Year that recently arrived at the liquor store)
• Impulse buys; on YNAB I've been averaging $500/mth on things I did not budget for but I have made progress. Last month I only spent $100 that was not budgeted.
• I keep configuring a new Tesla, the buyers temptation is strong

Ways luxury has lost this year:

• I haven't bought a new phone ($600)
• I haven't bought a VR headset ($1200)
• I haven't bought a new TV ($2000)

There has been minor progress over the last 6 months but the largest task I need to accomplish is changing my mindset from luxury consumer to frugal minimalist which in turn would reduce spending to increase savings.

It's funny because I do the math and I understand it. I logically know my choices are financially stupid yet my addiction to luxury keeps winning.

Has anyone here broken the grasps of luxury and taken up MMM ideals? What finally clicked to change your mindset?

Regarding certain purchases I think about the money as hours working. So I use my hourly income rate after taxes calculated using my MARGINAL income bracket. Why the marginal bracket? Because if I chose to work X extra hours to pay for something they would be taxed at the marginal rate, not the lower average rate. Say you're in the 25% or 28% bracket. I'll use the 28% bracket in this example. I think a lot of the 6 figure earning mustachians fall into that bracket. Say you've got 10% local taxes on top of that (high end, hopefully yours are lower) and as an American you've got something near 8% for SS and Medicare. 28%+10%+8% is 42%. OK subtract that from 100...58% is what you get to keep out of every dollar. Lets just say you make $60 an hour before taxes. A dollar a minute. That's a nice number. Multiply that by 58% and you get 34.80. per hour.

Lets say that business class ticket was $350 more than a coach class ticket. $350/34.80 = 10.05 hours. Would I rather sit in coach or go to work for an extra day plus? Well shit, that's easy for me, I'll ride in coach.

This is not to say I have cut out luxury entirely. I have nice things.

Luxury I spend on Example 1: I enjoy cooking and I have a couple All Clad pans, one of which I bought on sale and one of which I ordered via their online factory seconds sale. That stuff is going to get scratched up as soon as I use it anyways and on the piece I got I couldn't find whatever the cosmetic flaw was that made it unsaleable at full price. I also have some nice factory second Shun knives as you can get them locally once a year. These are likely not available to you as its not online, but the point is you can still buy luxury goods at a discount rate and there are likely some local luxury goods manufacturers in your area that others would not have access to. These things give me enjoyment and perform better than their cheaper counter parts.

I don't think the point is to cut out all luxury goods, but to evaluate how much value they provide to your life as compared to how long you have to spend working to get them.

Luxury I spend on Example 2: Most of my shoes are high end, recraftable shoes. Not ultra luxury, but things like Allen Edmonds and Danner. If I take good care of them they will cost me less over my lifetime that cheap shoes. They are easily resoleable by a cobbler, feel very nice on my feet and other people think they look nice and don't think I'm a complete cheapskate even though in many ways I am...With the Danners I am again lucky because they are local, but there are man other good boot and shoe manufacturers in many locations around the globe.  With the Allen Edmonds I bought one pair at the sale Nordstrom has every year and the other off Amazon when they had them on sale. I special order a width not normally carried in stores, you still get the sale price. Its about timing your luxury purchases to make efficient use of your dollars rather than impulse buying....or sometimes impulse buying because oh man I have wanted this for so long, but normally it is $400 and today it is only $180 and I will likely never see this price again. These shoes look better and will likely save me money over my lifetime. The oldest pair of boots I have is now 50 years old. I am not the first owner of that one, I expect the ones I have bought new to last just as long.

[pdxmonkey]

Get older.  That makes it comparatively easy.
There's a point along the aging spectrum where you progress to the point of a) not giving a fuck what people think

I think there's something to this. Someone once told me I was far too cynical for my age. I was still in college at the time. Somewhere around age 20. That + a decent amount of not giving a fuck leads to planning to make sure BAD SHIT that IS GONIG TO HAPPEN won't make my personal life bad.

[LuxuryIsADrug]

Okits: Did your business class flight mean two extra weeks of your life spent in a cubicle?

Economy flight $1000, business $3000; includes discounts. So 3 days of work compared to 8 days of work. Ouch.

Okits:  Is that Glenfiddich a month's worth of groceries for your family (or a month's worth of food for a whole village in an impoverished country)? 

Well aware the scotch is stupid. No idea why I want it; I saw it in the case and my brain got happy. I think it comes down to “what if it is better [than what I currently have?].” I had bought the Glennfiddich 21 ($260) last year as my birthday treat (Justifying a bad purchase) and I loved it. I do have a bottle of Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban I’ve been thoroughly enjoying which was $90. Scotch is a 1 bottle a year thing for me. I’m not a big drinker.

Now I read below about changing my buying habits. Someone said instead of buying material goods buy stocks. It’s funny because I had this exact thought before reading this thread. For my birthday I could buy some stock in a company I value. (It was AnEDO)

Fishindude: You need to find some new friends that aren't so materialistic.

I’m the only one of my friends that spends like this so I’d say it’s the household I grew up in. My sister is the same way but has not recognized how we spend is idiotic.

Ooeei: This is something I see happen in dieting/exercise as well.  We all know someone who works really hard at the gym, then goes and eats a large pizza as a "reward" because of all the calories they burned.  The problem is, they never lose any weight because the "reward" undoes all of their hard work and keeps them at the same weight as when they didn't work out and didn't eat the pizza.  Their "reward" should be losing weight! Unfortunately most people don't consider long term things good enough rewards, and therefore go for the short term stuff that hurts their long term goals.

This is spot on. You’d think I’d recognize since I’m constantly telling my sister she won’t see any progress if she gorges after every work out.

Ooeei: Another problem is thinking of money you didn't spend as "savings."  I can "not spend" $50,000 this month by not buying all sorts of stuff, that's not the same as saving $50,000.  Only the money you actually transfer to savings counts as being saved, don't forget that.  I can "save" $50,000 this month by not buying a new car, but if I spend all of my salary on small stuff I still didn't save anything even though it feels like I saved a lot.  Don't fall into the trap of thinking of yourself as doing good just because of what you don't buy.  Feel good about what you invest!

I’ll have to disagree with this. Pre-investment reading and YNAB these purchases would have been bought without any thought. I started a list last summer and constantly added wants. In 6 months I had added $20,000 worth of goods. What did I buy off that list? A bottle of scotch and a new mattress. I no longer remember what else was on that list. It’s been a boon for me.

Ooeei: As for the $500 scotch.  I would be absolutely shocked if you could pick it out in a blind taste test.

Could I pick out the Glennfiddich 26 in a taste test? No. Not at all. I really want to go to a blind tasting. It’d really help me find cheaper bottles I’d enjoy with no price bias.

Mamagoose: I like to think of the price of something compared to how much preschool time the same $$ would get me. For example, preschool costs us about $250/month (part-time) and it is a HUGE benefit for our family, so when my friend mentions a new $500 designer purse, I think "well that would be 2 months of preschool, and I already have a purse that holds my things, so no." Comparing it to my hourly rate doesn't have the same affect since I'm a high earner (and other high earners in my range would "justify" a much higher COL and spending level).

I will have to figure out something to equate costs to differently. It’s like the phone I was looking at. $600 shipped to my door so 1.5 days of work. It doesn’t sound that bad. It’s so easy to justify this way; at least with my current mindset.

R62:
Read "Your Money or Your Life". 

And then:  read it again.
I will add it to my list and find a copy to read.

Iron Mike Sharpe: Cut out advertising.

I’ve personally never had cable.
I can’t stand commercial radio.
I don’t have any magazine subscriptions and never read the newspaper.
I’ve had ad blocker for ages.
And yet I’m still such a consumer. Weird eh?

AnEDO: My advice is to go shopping.  For assets.  You will feel an endorphin rush every time you buy shares.  Every dividend you receive will be met with delight.  Having others toil away at the companies you own shares in for your benefit is a true luxury.

Funny you said this because I had this exact thought waking up today. Instead of buying a bottle of scotch for my birthday I’ll buy some shares in a company I value.

Dollar Slice: Is your remaining debt credit card debt? How much interest are you paying?

This was the main problem and why the debt has been hovering over me for so long.

It’s not CC debt. It’s a LOC @ 3.75% so it’s “only” $700 (2 days work) a year if I ignore it. (I’m no longer ignoring it or adding to it; well technically I’m adding to it since I buy things I don’t need instead of paying it down.)

If I take a year to pay it all off it’s around $400 in interest costs so about a days work.

And none of my friends encourage me to buy anything. I do this all on my own. It’s not my group at all. My best friend works two jobs to afford to live.

Tyort1: I will also say this - getting out of debt and getting a bit of a cash cushion is an enormous psychological difference.  I went from perpetually saying "f!ck it I'm so behind I might as well just enjoy life" to "Oh, I have cash now, I don't really want to part with it...." and my need to buy things dropped massively after that.

This was my problem for the longest time. “I might die tomorrow so why not buy x and y now!” It snowballed from there.

Frankies Girl:

I am tiny brained hamster running on a gold plated wheel until I die.

Erica:

I just recently took up running. (1.5 months in; 7m21s pace [3 kilometers]). I love the feeling after a run and I’m looking forward to running longer distances. My legs (calves) are not used to it and tire long before I’m out of breath.
I have mountain bike that hasn’t been used in 2 years and I just learned about nearby trails I want to hit.

Cshcx: Second the person who suggested taking your next vacation in an area with a low "standard of living

Backing packing and living with locals is a life goal of mine. I wish I had spent more time traveling when I was younger instead of partying. I’ll be visiting Cape Town, South Africa next year. It is my understanding that the city has a large income disparity.

Cshcx: Practice not buying things

I ogle at buying many things and my control has been getting better. I accumulated a $20,000 list of wants last year and only bought two items; a mattress and a bottle of scotch.

Seppia: The best solution for me is the automatic investing.

I auto invest into the companies RRSP; 6% with 3% match at the moment. It’s not a lot compared to what I could and should be doing if I want to be serious about FIRE.

Basenji: And if you aren't already a real expert and scotch isn't your absolute passion, then don't buy the most expensive bottle. Instead, learn more, talk to experts about value products, go to tastings.

I’m no expert. Scotch is a recent hobby and I’m in the process of finding what I like. I listed this above but I’ve become quite fond of Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban.

Forumname123: If you think that's true then you're not trying hard enough, because this just isn't true. It's very easy to get fast food meals for $5-6 in Canada (nearly all of them have value menus/coupons/etc), and there are an abundance of sit-down restaurants where you can easily spend under $15-20 with tax and tip.

Forumname123: If you want to improve you have to stop making excuses like these (I know you already know that, just pointing it out again)

Ah. The fast food I grew up eating was A&W and I remember more sit down restaurants as a child than fast food stops. My parents have been treating my sister and I to birthday dinners for the last decade and the meal for the four of us would run $200 - $700 (appetizers, drinks, meals, desert, tip) depending on the restaurant.

My mindset needs to change.

Zombiehunter:

I really enjoyed your post.

Dollar Slice:

So I ran the numbers for myself.
Tesla Model S: $30 per hour driven
Tesla Model 3: $21 per hour driven
Subaru WRX: $24 per hour driven.
Assume new tires for each car every 3 years; winter+summer = $3000 x 3 = $9000.
Assume $1000 year maintenance for each car.

Now, buying a Tesla Model 3 in cash $65,000. Opportunity costs over 10 years at average stock market gains put it at $130,000. Now without having to pay gas I free up $250 month (inflated to cover inflation and gas price increases) to invest as well coming out to $75,000. Total cost is then $55,000 and you can pat yourself on the back for no longer burning fossil fuels. (Hopefully the math is right). It's still an excessive cost.

Galliver: But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

It doesn’t affect me now but in 20 years the big thing will be my parents. Do I want to be stuck working for the last few years of their life or be able to spend it with them? If I really truly embraced FIRE I could retire in 16 years. My parents would be 74. My mother’s parents both died in their late 70’s.
Typing this made me really sad.

[pdxmonkey]

It's time to move up your RRSP. Double it to 12% and see how much you even notice. If you don't have the money, do you miss it? If you don't miss the money you might want to move it even higher. My understanding is Canada lets you catch up for not maxing out in prior years. I wish the US would let us do that with 401(k)s and IRAs.

[LuxuryIsADrug]

It's time to move up your RRSP. Double it to 12% and see how much you even notice. If you don't have the money, do you miss it? If you don't miss the money you might want to move it even higher. My understanding is Canada lets you catch up for not maxing out in prior years. I wish the US would let us do that with 401(k)s and IRAs.

Yep. We can max out any years we have missed. I'll take a closer look at the company's MER's since I'm at the maximum amount they'll match. Contributing to my own RSP may be better.

[okits]

Okits: Did your business class flight mean two extra weeks of your life spent in a cubicle?

Economy flight $1000, business $3000; includes discounts. So 3 days of work compared to 8 days of work. Ouch.

Can you get a refund on the business class ticket and buy the economy class one instead?  Even if you pay a penalty you're still potentially recouping ~50% of the initial outlay.  (Acknowledge that $3k is a discounted rate for a 16-hr flight...  But your hair is on fire!)

Could I pick out the Glennfiddich 26 in a taste test? No. Not at all. I really want to go to a blind tasting. It’d really help me find cheaper bottles I’d enjoy with no price bias.

Here. DH seems to be enjoying the Oban 14 ($110) and the Jura Superstition ($66) equally.

It doesn’t affect me now but in 20 years the big thing will be my parents. Do I want to be stuck working for the last few years of their life or be able to spend it with them? If I really truly embraced FIRE I could retire in 16 years. My parents would be 74. My mother’s parents both died in their late 70’s.
Typing this made me really sad.

The fact that you earn six figures and don't max out your RRSPs, deferring the tax burden of that income to your lower-bracket FIRE years (when you'll have lots of time for your parents) makes me sad.  Open an online, DIY brokerage account and build yourself a Canadian Couch Potato portfolio.

My parents are in their 70s.  It sneaks up on you a lot faster than you'd think.  (Your $3k business class flight could have been 3 x $1k economy class flights where your parents go on holiday with you.  Vacation memories with parents > lie-flat seat.)

You are asking the right questions.  Keep learning, keep optimizing.  At your income level you could accumulate a lot of assets quickly.

[LuxuryIsADrug]

Here. DH seems to be enjoying the Oban 14 ($110) and the Jura Superstition ($66) equally.

Checking local prices here and I get Oban 14 $125 CAD and Jura Superstition $75 CAD. Already catching myself making a mistake; I see these two prices and I'm already thinking, "I could buy both for myself and still spend less than I  did last year!" Luckily, the liquor mart will allow me to sample before buying.

Random story that makes an interesting comparison:
I bought a bottle of Old Pulteney 21 this year for my birthday. My friend balked at me for paying so much for a bottle. I justified it at the time by telling her I don't drink it often and I'll expect it'll last 6 months. Now, she's a smoker so I brought up her vice and asked her to compare it to mine. Turns out she spends just as much over that 6 month period.

The fact that you earn six figures and don't max out your RRSPs, deferring the tax burden of that income to your lower-bracket FIRE years (when you'll have lots of time for your parents) makes me sad.  Open an online, DIY brokerage account and build yourself a Canadian Couch Potato portfolio.

It will come. I've only been at this job for 1.5 years and I was making significantly less money before making a career change.

My frugal co-worker (ex-classmate) has been working here for 2 years and will be reaching 100k net worth sometime next year. He has an SO though which makes it a little easier.

[redbird]

I grew up in a very poor, constantly in debt, on government assistance family. Even from a young age, I could see that poor life choices put my parents in that position. It was not upbringing at all, as both my parents came from middle class parents with money. I didn't want to be in the position where even small amounts like $20 could make or break you like it was for them. So I've been frugal in a Mustachian way before MMM started his blog, starting right at 19 when I moved out of my parents' house.

The main thing MMM helped me with was the realization that early retirement was possible. It's not just poor people that think you have to work forever. Even very wealthy people can end up working well beyond "regular" retirement age. Learning that it's not only possible to retire, but do so extremely early, was very enlightening and became my goal once I got FI and saw that RE was truly obtainable.

While I'm a frugal person, I enjoy plenty of luxuries. There's a difference between frugal vs cheap. There's things that people on these forums do that I would never do, even if it would save me a little bit of money. I'm not making my own laundry detergent. I am not doing no-poo, and in fact I don't even buy the cheapest of the cheap shampoo or soap or toilet paper either. I don't like Aldi's or similar grocery stores. I run my A/C in the summer and the heat in the winter, even when it's not ridiculous outside (I do set my thermostat higher in summer/lower in winter than your average American seems to though). I have spent quite a bit over the years to see live music.

But at the same time there's other things that don't matter to me that I save money on that other people would never do. I don't wear makeup. I don't use a dish washer. I don't use a clothes dryer (I hang dry). I only wash my bath towels once a week. I only eat out maybe once every few months.

[brunetteUK]

OP, your question resonated a LOT with me.

I have always had a "punishment" strategy to life, basically, always beat myself to get wherever I wanted to go and it worked pretty well on the money spending side.

I have recently however, started changing that mentality as I'm getting mental health treatment and becoming more gentle and caring towards myself. The impact on money is that I don't say "I shouldn't" anymore and I've been allowing myself to spend money and I've been enjoying the fine things in life.

The kind of situation that gets me is when I can, I totally can buy/spend on something (I have a positive and healthy net worth) . So.... why not?! Quite a few times it seems like a silly silly sacrifice. Like groceries. Hmm... yes I could spend less on groceries but if I buy that fancy salmon, fancy asparagus or the like, it's not really going to do any harm to my finances, will it?

While before I had a "cannot afford anything" mindset, now that I can afford some stuff, I do not know where to draw the line. Which I guess companies know and are always trying to convince us to push it further.

* Practice not buying things. I do this fairly often: Go to the store (whatever store has stuff you're actually tempted to buy) and spend 20-30 minutes just ogling things, reveling in your own consumer lust... and then leave without buying a single thing. This is sort of like an inoculation, and builds willpower.

This works for me, I get the thrill of being in these beautiful shops with all these pretty things inside and I can browse and get that royalty feeling, knowing that I can buy and buy and buy, and I can buy today and tomorrow. I find the feeling of being able to  buy quite freeing, I feel like I belong in these fancy shops, I'm their ideal customer so I have no guilty or feeling of inferiority when I walk about without buying anything.

I used to have the "I shouldn't be here" feeling in fancy stores and that actually made me want to purchase something to reassure myself that it was ok to be in there.

Now my mindset is more the millionaire mindset, I can buy all I want and I can also not buy something and I won't feel like a deprived pauper.

[Torran]

One thing that helps me is that I try to think of it as "gaming the system" rather than "cheaping out".  So if I can play things right, I get to do something awesome for super cheap.  That's way more rewarding to me than just spending money to have a nice time or get a nice thing.

I love this idea.

[Bertram]

You mention some things you like: your fancy car, your $500 Scotch, eating out. But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

Focus on these things. Consciously enjoy them (think, "isn't it awesome that I can ___?") Do them more (not so much more that inexpensive things become expensive, of course...). These are the guilt-free pleasures of your financial "diet." Start with the ones you love and then maybe you'll find some new ones with time.

So I guess, in a nutshell, you can escape the desire for luxury by replacing it with desires for other things. Simple and inexpensive luxuries.

I'd like to come back to this, because I think the OPs reply flew right past what galliver is saying. OP said he wants to take care and get to know his parents before they die. That's a respectable thing to do and plan for, but it has nothing to with the pleasures of life that galliver is referencing.

OP needs to re-learn what he defines as having a good time. Currently there is a very strong implicit connection between price tag and perceived fun. Sure we can face-punch and call him silly, but that doesn't really change this association. And that association is not chance, there's a billion dollar industry and heaps of researching going into manipulating human decision making. You're not going to voercome it by a little bit of handwaving.

Personally, I've always been fascinated by human behaiour and social mechanisms, so my strategy was in understanding and always asking "WHY?". Once you understand all the shortcuts humans employ in decision making, and how advertisement and sales strategies make use of these shortcuts, you can see it working in yourself. I think that's the first step in learning the mechanisms, seeing them work in other people, and then recognizing them in yourself. Just holding on to how it feels and wait and let it pass. That's one step.

Another is how to change how you act, there's a lot of lessons from controlling other impulsive behaiour that you can transfer, the most obvious being anger management.

Both of these you can find and read a ton of literature on, or you get counseling. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are and how you prefer learning. Find a self help group, if you can't find one, start one.

All of this has of course again focused on what you want to turn away from. But as always it's never enough to run away from bad things, you will want to run towards good things. And this is where gallivers questions come into play. You need to learn to appreciate and enjoy simple things. Do you have a little garden? I think gardening is the simplest thing that most people can learn to connect to. I would never in my life have thought I could like gardening, I hated it, when I had to help out my parents as a kid. But as a grown up, I sort of ended up with a little garden by accident, and it has been quite an experience. Important thing is to forget about power tools, forget about high end, forget about competition; it's just your private patch of dirt and you want to spend only time and as little as possible else do make it a bit nicer, grow a couple flowers or even just grass. A couple times a week spend some time to make it a bit prettier, and enjoy the prettiness. I realize it sounds incredibly boring and stupid from the outside, any maybe you're not ready for it yet, but when you are you'll realize what it means to learn to enjoy simple things. And gardening is certainly not the be all end all ofthings, but it's a simple way of teaching that enjoyment comes from the moment.
 We all learned to enjoy tasting scotch, but we invested the time, because first we invested the moeny and we wanted to know what it is that makes people invest the money and enjoy it. But from an outside perspective is just fermented/rotting grain, you're just making it special by taking the time to make it special. And you can do the exact same with things that are (almost) free and available around you.

I don't enjoy driving more with a more expensive car, but I enjoy it more by investing the time to learn driving a vehicle on the edge. I don't enjoy motorcycling more by getting mroe power, better parts and other gimmicks, I enjoy it more by improving my riding, by perfecting my line, by watching and improving my throttle control meticulously, by learning how what type of riding has what effect on the tires, the suspension etc. There's a lof of philosophy books on it, for some it's zen, for some mindfulness, and there's a dozen other names. But it's all the same really simple, and abvious thing but you just have to learn to bend your mind to see it.

[Bucksandreds]

OP, your question resonated a LOT with me.

I have always had a "punishment" strategy to life, basically, always beat myself to get wherever I wanted to go and it worked pretty well on the money spending side.

I have recently however, started changing that mentality as I'm getting mental health treatment and becoming more gentle and caring towards myself. The impact on money is that I don't say "I shouldn't" anymore and I've been allowing myself to spend money and I've been enjoying the fine things in life.

The kind of situation that gets me is when I can, I totally can buy/spend on something (I have a positive and healthy net worth) . So.... why not?! Quite a few times it seems like a silly silly sacrifice. Like groceries. Hmm... yes I could spend less on groceries but if I buy that fancy salmon, fancy asparagus or the like, it's not really going to do any harm to my finances, will it?

While before I had a "cannot afford anything" mindset, now that I can afford some stuff, I do not know where to draw the line. Which I guess companies know and are always trying to convince us to push it further.

* Practice not buying things. I do this fairly often: Go to the store (whatever store has stuff you're actually tempted to buy) and spend 20-30 minutes just ogling things, reveling in your own consumer lust... and then leave without buying a single thing. This is sort of like an inoculation, and builds willpower.

This works for me, I get the thrill of being in these beautiful shops with all these pretty things inside and I can browse and get that royalty feeling, knowing that I can buy and buy and buy, and I can buy today and tomorrow. I find the feeling of being able to  buy quite freeing, I feel like I belong in these fancy shops, I'm their ideal customer so I have no guilty or feeling of inferiority when I walk about without buying anything.

I used to have the "I shouldn't be here" feeling in fancy stores and that actually made me want to purchase something to reassure myself that it was ok to be in there.

Now my mindset is more the millionaire mindset, I can buy all I want and I can also not buy something and I won't feel like a deprived pauper.

What's fancy asparagus?  I am not remotely 'mustachian' when it comes to healthy food and I think that's a good thing.  We only eat organic chicken, eggs, dairy and beef. No fresh veggie or fruit (in season) is fancy. They're just what you should eat.  Fancy is a far overused word here that's used to make mundane things appear special.  If putting the right things in to your body delays retirement by a few months, so what?  People who take care of what they put into their body, on average, will get far more months back of living than they lose of working.
 

[happy]

Although I've been frugal at various times in my life, I'm not naturally frugal: I tend to be a lover of fine things.
3 things I've found to be helpful that haven't been mentioned:

1. try a "no spend" challenge. You define the parameters but something like spend no money  on food for a week ( eating out of your pantry), or spend only essential bills like utilities and food within a budget for a month. Make hard enough that you have to improvise a bit, but not so hard you fall off the wagon. After that you'll realise you can make do with a lot less.
2. if there's something you can't bear to give up, try spending half as much on it i.e. only buy half as much, or do the activity half and often
3. look at your last 3 months cc bills or track all your spending for 3 months, and then look back and see how much frivolous spending you did. See what was essential and what was optional and what you could have done without.

Lots of great posts : I second becoming aware of why you need to spend, and enjoying the game of frugal hard-ball - i.e. gaming the system.

[neo von retorch]

If you make $50k after taxes, and you save $20k per year (including paying off debt in this stage), going from net worth $0...
It will take 37.5 years to build up your nest egg to retirement. $500 / mo excess spending, or $6000 / year can swing this either way.

If you now save $26k per year, it'll only take 23 years to build up that next egg. (This actually assumes ZERO investment gains, which is a terrible assumption.)
If you instead save only $14k per year, it'll take 64 years to build up that nest egg.

Umm... is $500 / month in spending worth that many years of your life working?

(5000 internet points to anyone that corrects my math with numbers that include investment gains!)

For 5,000 points
Our goal is $1.25 million for $50k spending at 4% SWR
I used 5% real return on investments

saving $20k per year will get you to $1.25 million in 28.5 years
saving $26k will take 24.67 years
saving $14k will take 34.17 years

Excellent! I award you 5,000 internet points.

So just $500 / month swings how many years you have to work 4 to 6 years! Assume any purchase you make will happen next month, too. Maybe not the exact same widget, but the same sort of thing. Then think... if I buy this $100 item, I will have to work ONE MORE YEAR! Is that $100 item worth one year of your life?! 2000 hours?

[Captain FIRE]

I feel like this hasn't been emphasized enough: you force yourself into a lifestyle that has nothing you love, and you'll hate it and you won't stick with it. Maybe you'll tough it out a month or two, but not for 20 years.

You mention some things you like: your fancy car, your $500 Scotch, eating out. But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

Focus on these things. Consciously enjoy them (think, "isn't it awesome that I can ___?") Do them more (not so much more that inexpensive things become expensive, of course...). These are the guilt-free pleasures of your financial "diet." Start with the ones you love and then maybe you'll find some new ones with time.

So I guess, in a nutshell, you can escape the desire for luxury by replacing it with desires for other things. Simple and inexpensive luxuries.

+1
This is how I approach things, trying to replace more expensive luxuries with inexpensive luxuries (e.g. free Shakespeare in the park, free concerts/movies in the summer, bubble baths, reading a book on my hammock, canoeing on the lake).  Just think about what you enjoy now and do those things more often.  Then think about what things you might like to do that you would consider luxuries that aren't expensive.

This will also make you appreciate true luxuries more.  I go out to eat way more than I'm willing to admit on these boards (80% due to my spouse).  One way I've persuaded my spouse to cut back is to point out that we enjoy it more and consider it special rather than everyday when we go less frequently.

I also consider how much/long I'll enjoy something.  Paying for an economy priced ticket to London: I'll enjoy the two weeks plus have memories for a lifetime!  Paying for the upgrade to business class?  One day - the flight itself and maybe a bit of the next day when I might be somewhat tired.  $2000 is NOT worth one day for me, the cost/reward ratio simply isn't there.  You said $3000 is 8 days work/$1000 is 3 days.  Assuming 50 weeks working (2 weeks vacation), that means your salary is ballpark maybe $85k-$94.  Call it $90k.   You spent over 2% of your pre-tax dollars on a ONE DAY benefit! 

[partgypsy]

The best solution for me is the automatic investing.
Money leaves the account the same at as my paycheck.
Since I can never bring myself to sell stocks, this setup prevents me from any stupid large purchase

I think right now, it seems like as long as you are not in debt (you said your net worth was around 0) you are psychologically OK with spending whatever is in your account (or maybe even more than that). It's not your money. You can't afford that. You need to get in the habit of paying yourself first (ie investing, retirement) so you don't even SEE that money. Only after you have taken care of your saving goals, can you take anything left over to spend it. If you want that bottle of whiskey you have to save money in your fun fund, and then pay for it in cash (no putting any type of purchase like that on credit cards, cash only). I would also buy a car, than lease. Then after a few years you will own that vehicle and then not have to lease anymore.

[HBFIRE]

If you make $50k after taxes, and you save $20k per year (including paying off debt in this stage), going from net worth $0...
It will take 37.5 years to build up your nest egg to retirement. $500 / mo excess spending, or $6000 / year can swing this either way.

If you now save $26k per year, it'll only take 23 years to build up that next egg. (This actually assumes ZERO investment gains, which is a terrible assumption.)
If you instead save only $14k per year, it'll take 64 years to build up that nest egg.

Umm... is $500 / month in spending worth that many years of your life working?

(5000 internet points to anyone that corrects my math with numbers that include investment gains!)

For 5,000 points
Our goal is $1.25 million for $50k spending at 4% SWR
I used 5% real return on investments

saving $20k per year will get you to $1.25 million in 28.5 years
saving $26k will take 24.67 years
saving $14k will take 34.17 years

The problem with this forecast is that it doesn't take into account inflation (i.e.  50 K of spending will need to go up as inflation rises.  The 4% WR takes this into account and is baked in, but this projection for "years to goal" above does not.  Hence, you'll need to do a projection with inflation in mind.  In other words, 1.25 Mil in 28.5 years is nowhere near what it is today.  Using history as a guide for inflation rate, a person that spends 50 K/year today will spend ~100K/year in 28 years.  Hence, you'll need a stache of ~ 2.5 mil at that time).

[MrsDinero]

You need to look at your situation and realize how utterly disgusting it is.

 *Disgusting*.

Reading over your spending habits did not in any way seem like you had any luxury in life. It was akin to hearing a morbidly obese diabetic describing the dozen donuts they had for breakfast before having a supersized big mac meal for lunch and lamenting after about the foot they are going to lose next week. You are the financial equivalent of the fat people using the scooters at the grocery store with the cart full of twinkies and ice cream.

Quit your bullshit and start saving some real fucking money. 50%. Pretax. No excuses. Do it for a month and come back. Until then you're not serious.

 +1000

[galliver]

Galliver: But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

It doesn’t affect me now but in 20 years the big thing will be my parents. Do I want to be stuck working for the last few years of their life or be able to spend it with them? If I really truly embraced FIRE I could retire in 16 years. My parents would be 74. My mother’s parents both died in their late 70’s.
Typing this made me really sad.

You mention some things you like: your fancy car, your $500 Scotch, eating out. But what *else* do you like? What do you like that doesn't cost (as) much money? A cup of coffee? Reading a book on a sunny day? Picnics? Long walks? Volleyball with friends? What makes you go "ahh, this is the life!" and yet doesn't break the bank?

Focus on these things. Consciously enjoy them (think, "isn't it awesome that I can ___?") Do them more (not so much more that inexpensive things become expensive, of course...). These are the guilt-free pleasures of your financial "diet." Start with the ones you love and then maybe you'll find some new ones with time.

So I guess, in a nutshell, you can escape the desire for luxury by replacing it with desires for other things. Simple and inexpensive luxuries.

I'd like to come back to this, because I think the OPs reply flew right past what galliver is saying. OP said he wants to take care and get to know his parents before they die. That's a respectable thing to do and plan for, but it has nothing to with the pleasures of life that galliver is referencing.

OP needs to re-learn what he defines as having a good time. Currently there is a very strong implicit connection between price tag and perceived fun. Sure we can face-punch and call him silly, but that doesn't really change this association. And that association is not chance, there's a billion dollar industry and heaps of researching going into manipulating human decision making. You're not going to voercome it by a little bit of handwaving.

Personally, I've always been fascinated by human behaiour and social mechanisms, so my strategy was in understanding and always asking "WHY?". Once you understand all the shortcuts humans employ in decision making, and how advertisement and sales strategies make use of these shortcuts, you can see it working in yourself. I think that's the first step in learning the mechanisms, seeing them work in other people, and then recognizing them in yourself. Just holding on to how it feels and wait and let it pass. That's one step.

Another is how to change how you act, there's a lot of lessons from controlling other impulsive behaiour that you can transfer, the most obvious being anger management.

Both of these you can find and read a ton of literature on, or you get counseling. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are and how you prefer learning. Find a self help group, if you can't find one, start one.

All of this has of course again focused on what you want to turn away from. But as always it's never enough to run away from bad things, you will want to run towards good things. And this is where gallivers questions come into play. You need to learn to appreciate and enjoy simple things. Do you have a little garden? I think gardening is the simplest thing that most people can learn to connect to. I would never in my life have thought I could like gardening, I hated it, when I had to help out my parents as a kid. But as a grown up, I sort of ended up with a little garden by accident, and it has been quite an experience. Important thing is to forget about power tools, forget about high end, forget about competition; it's just your private patch of dirt and you want to spend only time and as little as possible else do make it a bit nicer, grow a couple flowers or even just grass. A couple times a week spend some time to make it a bit prettier, and enjoy the prettiness. I realize it sounds incredibly boring and stupid from the outside, any maybe you're not ready for it yet, but when you are you'll realize what it means to learn to enjoy simple things. And gardening is certainly not the be all end all ofthings, but it's a simple way of teaching that enjoyment comes from the moment.
 We all learned to enjoy tasting scotch, but we invested the time, because first we invested the moeny and we wanted to know what it is that makes people invest the money and enjoy it. But from an outside perspective is just fermented/rotting grain, you're just making it special by taking the time to make it special. And you can do the exact same with things that are (almost) free and available around you.

I don't enjoy driving more with a more expensive car, but I enjoy it more by investing the time to learn driving a vehicle on the edge. I don't enjoy motorcycling more by getting mroe power, better parts and other gimmicks, I enjoy it more by improving my riding, by perfecting my line, by watching and improving my throttle control meticulously, by learning how what type of riding has what effect on the tires, the suspension etc. There's a lof of philosophy books on it, for some it's zen, for some mindfulness, and there's a dozen other names. But it's all the same really simple, and abvious thing but you just have to learn to bend your mind to see it.

Thanks, Bertram, and you were right; I was talking about all the little everyday things. Spending time with parents (or kids, etc) is a great long-term goal and reason to do this, but people are AWFUL about translating long-term aspirations into every-day, short-term decisions. And funny enough, taking care of my tomato plants was foremost in my mind as I was typing! Like you said, it doesn't take much. We don't have a garden, just 3 big pots (2 tomato, one pepper) outside, and some windowsill plants. I had similarly enjoyable moments reading a book by my friend's (apartment) pool, on hikes, and having a home-cooked steak dinner with a glass of wine. And a different kind of enjoyment, more like satisfaction, from finishing a project or even a chore.

[neo von retorch]

For 5,000 points
Our goal is $1.25 million for $50k spending at 4% SWR
I used 5% real return on investments

saving $20k per year will get you to $1.25 million in 28.5 years
saving $26k will take 24.67 years
saving $14k will take 34.17 years

The problem with this forecast is that it doesn't take into account inflation (i.e.  50 K of spending will need to go up as inflation rises.  The 4% WR takes this into account and is baked in, but this projection for "years to goal" above does not.  Hence, you'll need to do a projection with inflation in mind.  In other words, 1.25 Mil in 28.5 years is nowhere near what it is today.  Using history as a guide for inflation rate, a person that spends 50 K/year today will spend ~100K/year in 28 years.  Hence, you'll need a stache of ~ 2.5 mil at that time).

You could update the numbers to adjust with inflation, but the point is basically the same. Unnecessary expenses in the amount of 1% of gross earnings per month can swing the length of your working career 4 to 6 years.

[Cap_Scarlet]

I think it's a mind set thing whereby in some cases we actually fool ourselves by think that if we pay a huge sum of money for something we must be enjoying the luxury.  Because if we'd spent that much money and weren't enjoying it we'd actually feel quite sick.

I often fly business on company funded trips but would never fly business when flying private (unless on points or on a free upgrade) and I always say to myself "the difference between the economy and the business far is equivalent to.....[fill in whatever is important to you]...could be three months food, two years car insurance etc. etc.  You'll quickly realize that being a little uncomfortable in coach is not that bad (a tip:  if coach is really unbearable just don't go to bed for 24 hours beforehand and you will sleep like a baby).

I was in a fancy restaurant the other week and hormones were well and truly out, so one guy orders two bottles of wine at $250 a bottle.  Was it nice wine?  Sure.  did everyone stand around saying things like "that's the real stuff" yes they did.  Was it materially better than the $5 wine I buy at Aldi? No it was not.

If you are careful and buy right there is a much higher probability of getting satisfaction our of buying something inexpensive that turns out to be great than buying something expensive that disappoints.  Set yourself the challenge of getting the best quality for the least money.

[Dollar Slice]

You'll quickly realize that being a little uncomfortable in coach is not that bad (a tip:  if coach is really unbearable just don't go to bed for 24 hours beforehand and you will sleep like a baby).

Oh god, I tried that the last time I went to Europe and managed to sprain my ankle going down a flight of stairs about 14 hours before my flight. Solo overseas trip in coach + sleep deprivation + being in too much pain to sleep is a truly miserable way to travel. I ended up being awake for 36 hours straight. I don't think being in first class or business class would have helped, though :-)  I might try it again next time I travel and this time not sprain my ankle.

[deeshen13]

Frugality is liberation not deprivation.

Good luck sir!

[okits]

You'll quickly realize that being a little uncomfortable in coach is not that bad (a tip:  if coach is really unbearable just don't go to bed for 24 hours beforehand and you will sleep like a baby).

I used to do this until I got too old to cope well with the fatigue and almost missed my flight (nodded off at the gate.)  Missing your flight is not Mustachian!  I'd prefer to schedule an extra vacation day to rest, upon arrival (yeah, I'm an old lady.  Such is life.)