Author Topic: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?  (Read 8650 times)

SKL-HOU

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2019, 06:25:33 PM »
Eh, one of those "you're expendable" people here. Here's the deal. I got fired (not the good kind) from a job in 2012. 30 minutes later, the company called and asked me to do "one last thing". I refused. They then began paying me 3x my old rate. Eventually I got tired of them, they spent over $12M trying to replace a small portion of what I did, failed, and were bought by another company. The old power structure is gone, the CEO and VPs jobless. So, I mean, I guess I'm replaceable. But not in a way where the business survives.

My last company, I heard the same thing. I left, and the project failed. There's someone in my old position, but they're on the way out. No project, no money, no job.

Oh yeah. The one before that, they've hired 26 people to replace me (thats 26 people to fill what I did alone). They can't match what I did. So there's that too.

"Everyone's replaceable" is what grumpy people with mediocre skills tend to say. It's true mostly, but the best of the best can leave a crushing vacuum when they move on.

If I make over $500k being completely replaceable, and you claim you are irreplaceable - or “business crushing replaceable”, I sure hope you are getting paid a lot more than I do... If not you probably should seriously reconsider the arrogant style of your post...

If what he said is true, he must have been so unbearable that he ended up being fired at all costs. That was my thought. But you make a great point.

use2betrix

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2019, 07:46:16 PM »
I'm also stunned by the earnings people are reporting here. I'm 24 with 2 years of experience. I make $52k at pretty much entry level. I also make another $45k in side hustles. Altogether I make $95,000-$100,000 annually working 50-60 hours a week. It's fascinating how people make 4 or 5 times that working 40 hours a week, under fairly low stress.

Interesting thread, following.

Remember, this is the Internet.  Unverifiable identities and people living in fantasy-land.  The "trix" guy above is virtually certain to be a troll.   

Are there 30 year olds making $300,000?  Sure, but they created something (think Zuck).  They don't work for someone.  Also, what $300,00 professional says stuff like this?

"I was venting to my boss one evening about some issues and then we both laughed when I said “how do I really bitch that much when you just throw more money at me.” Lol."

You can call me a lot of things but don’t you f**** ever call me a “professional.”
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 04:10:35 AM by use2betrix »

brooklynmoney

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2019, 09:19:58 PM »
I always say to my best friend when I am telling her about my insane schedule or some high pressure situation at work “they don’t give it to me for free.” I find my job almost all consuming at times. It’s hard to keep because it’s hard to make myself not quit or get fired all the time. I do like my firm but my profession is always on the list of top most stressful occupations and I’ve been at it for more than 20 years.

FI-King_Awesome

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2019, 09:34:27 PM »
I always say to my best friend when I am telling her about my insane schedule or some high pressure situation at work “they don’t give it to me for free.” I find my job almost all consuming at times. It’s hard to keep because it’s hard to make myself not quit or get fired all the time. I do like my firm but my profession is always on the list of top most stressful occupations and I’ve been at it for more than 20 years.

Similar situation. I’ve sacrificed the last 10 years, traveling 80%+ globally, and living on multiple continents.  It may sound nice to an outsider, but it effectively means not having a personal life.  Transient friendships, missing every birthday, wedding, funeral, and giving up hobbies, vacations - the list goes on.

On a positive note, the job itself is incredibly rewarding (read curing cancer level) and expenses are very limited, which has contributed to a high savings rate.

That said, at 40, with nothing to show but a stack of cash, I wouldn’t recommend anyone following in my footsteps.  It may sound like cursing in church, considering the forum, but money isn’t everything - it offers a level of comfort, confidence and a sense of relief. But happiness will come from other sources, starting with yourself.

Good luck

brute

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2019, 05:30:08 AM »
Eh, one of those "you're expendable" people here. Here's the deal. I got fired (not the good kind) from a job in 2012. 30 minutes later, the company called and asked me to do "one last thing". I refused. They then began paying me 3x my old rate. Eventually I got tired of them, they spent over $12M trying to replace a small portion of what I did, failed, and were bought by another company. The old power structure is gone, the CEO and VPs jobless. So, I mean, I guess I'm replaceable. But not in a way where the business survives.

My last company, I heard the same thing. I left, and the project failed. There's someone in my old position, but they're on the way out. No project, no money, no job.

Oh yeah. The one before that, they've hired 26 people to replace me (thats 26 people to fill what I did alone). They can't match what I did. So there's that too.

"Everyone's replaceable" is what grumpy people with mediocre skills tend to say. It's true mostly, but the best of the best can leave a crushing vacuum when they move on.

If I make over $500k being completely replaceable, and you claim you are irreplaceable - or “business crushing replaceable”, I sure hope you are getting paid a lot more than I do... If not you probably should seriously reconsider the arrogant style of your post...

If what he said is true, he must have been so unbearable that he ended up being fired at all costs. That was my thought. But you make a great point.

Sorry you got flustered by my usefulness. Carry on.

dude

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2019, 06:41:48 AM »
I'm also stunned by the earnings people are reporting here. I'm 24 with 2 years of experience. I make $52k at pretty much entry level. I also make another $45k in side hustles. Altogether I make $95,000-$100,000 annually working 50-60 hours a week. It's fascinating how people make 4 or 5 times that working 40 hours a week, under fairly low stress.

Interesting thread, following.

Remember, this is the Internet.  Unverifiable identities and people living in fantasy-land.  The "trix" guy above is virtually certain to be a troll.   

Are there 30 year olds making $300,000?  Sure, but they created something (think Zuck).  They don't work for someone.  Also, what $300,00 professional says stuff like this?

"I was venting to my boss one evening about some issues and then we both laughed when I said “how do I really bitch that much when you just throw more money at me.” Lol."


 In the investment banking/hedge fund/Wall St world, $300k at age 30 isn't even all that much money. And no, they didn't create shit -- they move other peoples' money around and siphon their take off the top. I've known many of these people.

brooklynmoney

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2019, 08:06:35 AM »
I always say to my best friend when I am telling her about my insane schedule or some high pressure situation at work “they don’t give it to me for free.” I find my job almost all consuming at times. It’s hard to keep because it’s hard to make myself not quit or get fired all the time. I do like my firm but my profession is always on the list of top most stressful occupations and I’ve been at it for more than 20 years.

Similar situation. I’ve sacrificed the last 10 years, traveling 80%+ globally, and living on multiple continents.  It may sound nice to an outsider, but it effectively means not having a personal life.  Transient friendships, missing every birthday, wedding, funeral, and giving up hobbies, vacations - the list goes on.

On a positive note, the job itself is incredibly rewarding (read curing cancer level) and expenses are very limited, which has contributed to a high savings rate.

That said, at 40, with nothing to show but a stack of cash, I wouldn’t recommend anyone following in my footsteps.  It may sound like cursing in church, considering the forum, but money isn’t everything - it offers a level of comfort, confidence and a sense of relief. But happiness will come from other sources, starting with yourself.

Good luck

Good luck to you as well. My travel isn’t even nearly that intense, so you have my sympathy. I’m in the same situation as you in that I’m in my 40s and feel like I’m just waking up to what’s important and feeling like I’ve neglected those things. Good news for us is we have time to make different choices if we want to.

tedman

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2019, 10:15:18 AM »
My mom is one of the smartest people alive in her profession, which honestly sounds ridiculous to say, but if we listed out her academic achievements, titles and practical things she did in her career in finance it’d be staggeringly long. In fact if you bank today something she created (with others of course, but as she would say “success has many fathers and failure is a bastard”) forms the basis of a good amount of transactions going on.

She eventually reached a point where there was one equivalent of her at major banks, and so she moved two times in the 90s (making people upset at the place she left)and eventually the bank she was at bought a bank she previously worked at and they canned her entire division letting the purchased bank take over that area.

She’s a wonderful person, but she’s not often wrong and that grates on people especially in a place where everyone’s ego is suitably high related to their compensation (right or wrong, personally I think wrong and she gets super mad when I say how pointless I view most of what wall street does).

Irony of ironies, it really had little to do with her but more about “institutional banking” being viewed as old and stodgy and costing profit margins, and everyone equivalent to her went along or was fired.., and the banking meltdown happened. I am in no way insinuating she could have stopped it alone, but her and her cohort and their underlings managing their teams all could have but it was conform or get out.

Other than the founder of a company, she performed such an important task, and was paid handsomely but nowhere near others at her level in different roles, some guy got a 100 mil!! bonus one year. All that and she was still let go so to speak (she does all non profit charity work now).

So I agree some people really are indispensable... but you’re only the rock of Gibraltar if you own your own company.

FWIW I never had any idea how much she made until recently, she would probably be more commonly regarded as a boglehead (she’s been in Vanguard since the mid 80s, along with most of her colleagues which REALLY tells you something about wallst)... and I got help buying a place and the rest she is donating (I think she may leave me money to pay for grandkids schooling, since I am not an Ivy leaguer -the only one in my family to my eternal shame-) but she truly would have done the work for far less, though she would never accept below market cuz who really would, and I wonder how many people that are so vital to businesses fall into that category. Want to be paid market rate or maybe top for it but it’s not fundamentally about the money. She had fuck you money by 40 and worked until 49.

This is why I own my own company (along with being an academic fuck up) and I do that and work a 9-5 until I can do my own thing full time.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2019, 11:22:22 AM »
As folks said up-thread, I certainly am not so egotistical to think that I'm not replaceable.  On the other hand, I worked pretty dang hard in my early career for only decent money.  Nowadays, I make good money and am treated well and it does not seem too difficult to keep my job.  In fact, most of the time I feel like I'm doing much less than I am capable of, especially when I have a day like today when I'm challenged on my core skills.  But I continue to challenge myself during slower periods by working better with my French colleagues (learning the language, exploring Paris (and soon greater France as the weather improves), taking culture and history courses, watching lots of YouTube videos by Paul Taylor :)

Dr. Pepper

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2019, 09:25:54 PM »
I feel like it's not hard, but in my line of work your only as good as your last year of volume(cases) when it comes to employment. So it's a continuous struggle to maintain that mix of volume and complexity. Also to keep up with all the advances in the field. Marketing yourself to peers to drive referrals, giving grand rounds, etc. Developing new skill sets (robotics).  But it's a passion so it doesn't feel like work, even though it is.

Severian

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2019, 06:46:51 PM »
The incomes stated here are pretty incredible.

They're not really, at least within certain contexts. They probably do seem high to people not familiar with those contexts. If you're young and you want to make that kind of money you probably can if you set your sights on it.

I make 130k at the moment, but Facebook tried pretty hard to recruit me a few years ago. I'm fairly senior, so if I'd gone to Facebook I would have expected to have started at something like 3-400k in total compensation. I think even fresh out of school programmers make >250k in total compensation at Facebook. The big companies have money and they're willing to spend it on talented people. I don't happen to want to work for Facebook though.

At the time I was running a little software company and making > 10k a week in good weeks, but never less than about 6k. I made some odd decisions, that came to an end, and... well, I'm happy enough to take 130k as salary while I regroup and work on a payout I hope will be in the seven figures. If that doesn't work out I'll either go back into having a little company or looking for a higher salary- 130k isn't very much in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, you'd be surprised at how many people make quite a bit of money. Sure, within the context of the average business 500k is a lot of money. But in the the context of really successful businesses 500k is the kind of money they lose in their couch cushions. If you want to make a lot of money it's best to be near or in those very successful businesses, I suppose.

okonumiyaki

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #61 on: February 17, 2019, 02:23:05 AM »
I would say - yes it is hard to keep your job at those levels.  Because to be good, you have to give it your almost all.

I was made redundant in 2015, after deciding to take on the Chairman/ CEO over what I considered flawed strategy, and, obviously, failing.  The redundancy package was nice though

I found an equivalent job, but my heart is not in it (to do the hours & the travel & the networking - and doesn't help that the guy that hired me has left, and I am a long way geographically from the people who matter)  So I have just handed in my resignation

My father was OG FIRE (he retired aged 52)  He said two things that stuck:

- he felt sorry for people with hobbies, as it meant that they didn't get the satisfaction from work he got (as a research scientist)

- when I asked why he left relatively early - he said it was because he realised that he was waiting for the working day to be over, so time to go fishing instead

I am now at that stage.  So yes, it is hard to keep your job

Bloop Bloop

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #62 on: February 17, 2019, 04:02:52 AM »
Eh, one of those "you're expendable" people here. Here's the deal. I got fired (not the good kind) from a job in 2012. 30 minutes later, the company called and asked me to do "one last thing". I refused. They then began paying me 3x my old rate. Eventually I got tired of them, they spent over $12M trying to replace a small portion of what I did, failed, and were bought by another company. The old power structure is gone, the CEO and VPs jobless. So, I mean, I guess I'm replaceable. But not in a way where the business survives.

My last company, I heard the same thing. I left, and the project failed. There's someone in my old position, but they're on the way out. No project, no money, no job.

Oh yeah. The one before that, they've hired 26 people to replace me (thats 26 people to fill what I did alone). They can't match what I did. So there's that too.

"Everyone's replaceable" is what grumpy people with mediocre skills tend to say. It's true mostly, but the best of the best can leave a crushing vacuum when they move on.

If I make over $500k being completely replaceable, and you claim you are irreplaceable - or “business crushing replaceable”, I sure hope you are getting paid a lot more than I do... If not you probably should seriously reconsider the arrogant style of your post...

There are different types of replaceable. As an individual I am entirely replaceable, in that, though talented, I offer nothing special that a suitably trained above average intelligence person couldn't offer. Fortunately, my industry has artificial barriers to entry which means that even if there were a lot of said replacements, not many of them could be 'recruited', and the ones that are usually end up taking my approach of pumping up our fees as high as possible.

So my advice is, in order to make yourself irreplaceable, try to work in an industry in which you impose high, artificial barriers to entry and form a de facto cartel.

njmoney

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #63 on: February 17, 2019, 06:42:50 AM »
Now, no.  In the past, yes.  I work in the food industry making about $175k.  When I worked for larger companies it was all about profit margin.  When investors put pressure on the company to increase profit margins the easy way to do it was through layoffs.  After many rounds of layoffs over the years they had made the companies so lean that they just started getting rid of the highest earners regardless of performance.  You were just a number on a page.  Eventually my level was going to be the next to go.  So, I left.  This story is true of most of the big food companies today.  I work for a small food company now where there is less mobility but more security. 

big_slacker

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2019, 06:42:02 AM »
The incomes stated here are pretty incredible.

They're not really, at least within certain contexts. They probably do seem high to people not familiar with those contexts. If you're young and you want to make that kind of money you probably can if you set your sights on it.

I make 130k at the moment, but Facebook tried pretty hard to recruit me a few years ago. I'm fairly senior, so if I'd gone to Facebook I would have expected to have started at something like 3-400k in total compensation. I think even fresh out of school programmers make >250k in total compensation at Facebook. The big companies have money and they're willing to spend it on talented people. I don't happen to want to work for Facebook though.

At the time I was running a little software company and making > 10k a week in good weeks, but never less than about 6k. I made some odd decisions, that came to an end, and... well, I'm happy enough to take 130k as salary while I regroup and work on a payout I hope will be in the seven figures. If that doesn't work out I'll either go back into having a little company or looking for a higher salary- 130k isn't very much in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, you'd be surprised at how many people make quite a bit of money. Sure, within the context of the average business 500k is a lot of money. But in the the context of really successful businesses 500k is the kind of money they lose in their couch cushions. If you want to make a lot of money it's best to be near or in those very successful businesses, I suppose.

I don't know that $250k total comp at FB for direct from college coders is really true, even in the bay. I'd say $120k base is more realistic, IDK their bonus/stock structure though. Happy to be proven wrong, but knowing other big tech salaries I don't think FB pays THAT much more than AMZN, MSFT, etc.

bryan995

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2019, 09:53:45 PM »
I don't know that $250k total comp at FB for direct from college coders is really true, even in the bay. I'd say $120k base is more realistic, IDK their bonus/stock structure though. Happy to be proven wrong, but knowing other big tech salaries I don't think FB pays THAT much more than AMZN, MSFT, etc.

https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Google/Facebook/Microsoft
$250 TC is not impossible for a new grad, from a top school - but is rare.  This person would have to be exceptional.
I read a post the other day of a PhD intern at MSFT making $22k/mo because they had allowed him to work overtime, ha!
 
A lot of compensation numbers are skewed over the past few years because of the stock gains.  Suddenly your 400k RSU package turns into 800k and now you are making 160K base + 200k stock + 40k bonus per year.  Start jumping ship every 2 years and now you can add a 50-100k sign-on + 30k relo into the mix. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 10:07:27 PM by bryan995 »

obstinate

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2019, 10:20:58 PM »
https://www.levels.fyi/SE/Google/Facebook/Microsoft
$250 TC is not impossible for a new grad, from a top school - but is rare.  This person would have to be exceptional.
Very rare. Not quite winning the lottery rare, but quite rare nonetheless. Fewer than one in a hundred of new grad hires I would guess.

I read a post the other day of a PhD intern at MSFT making $22k/mo because they had allowed him to work overtime, ha!
Sounds like fake news. When I interned at MSFT (mid 2000s) we were salaried and I can't think why they would have changed that.

conwy

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #67 on: February 21, 2019, 02:55:58 PM »
As a contract software developer, my whole career has been an unending series of moves up to higher and higher paid gigs, based on constantly changing combinations of factors such as skills and experience required, location, availability, impact of and funding for a given project, how much they liked me in the interview, etc. etc.

The hardest work has been either building the client's confidence and trust at the beginning of an engagement, delivering a particularly difficult piece of work or landing the next gig. It tends to peak at those crucial times and the rest of the time it's fairly easy and steady work. It definitely feels like work, but it's enjoyable enough often enough to be worthwhile.

I admit I feel a touch of envy looking at some of the upper-end figures quoted in this thread (300k+!!). On the other hand, I am grateful for the freedom, flexibility and variety contracting gives me. E.g. I can take several months off for holidays if I like, and come back with enough renewed energy and focus to score an even better paid gig. And of course my wages are paid entirely in cash, so I'm 100% in the drivers seat with how I invest my money.

There's sometimes a small tinge of sadness at leaving behind something I worked for months to create, but that's more than offset by the delicious freedom from any binding obligations (it's for a similar reason I was drawn to the idea of FI).

Still, even the distant possibility of netting 200k USD after tax/expenses in Silicon Valley is alluring. If I can just meet all the ridiculous visa requirements. You yanks call yourselves a "nation of immigrants"... yeah right!
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 03:03:29 PM by conwy »

mm1970

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #68 on: February 21, 2019, 05:21:59 PM »
As a contract software developer, my whole career has been an unending series of moves up to higher and higher paid gigs, based on constantly changing combinations of factors such as skills and experience required, location, availability, impact of and funding for a given project, how much they liked me in the interview, etc. etc.

The hardest work has been either building the client's confidence and trust at the beginning of an engagement, delivering a particularly difficult piece of work or landing the next gig. It tends to peak at those crucial times and the rest of the time it's fairly easy and steady work. It definitely feels like work, but it's enjoyable enough often enough to be worthwhile.

I admit I feel a touch of envy looking at some of the upper-end figures quoted in this thread (300k+!!). On the other hand, I am grateful for the freedom, flexibility and variety contracting gives me. E.g. I can take several months off for holidays if I like, and come back with enough renewed energy and focus to score an even better paid gig. And of course my wages are paid entirely in cash, so I'm 100% in the drivers seat with how I invest my money.

There's sometimes a small tinge of sadness at leaving behind something I worked for months to create, but that's more than offset by the delicious freedom from any binding obligations (it's for a similar reason I was drawn to the idea of FI).

Still, even the distant possibility of netting 200k USD after tax/expenses in Silicon Valley is alluring. If I can just meet all the ridiculous visa requirements. You yanks call yourselves a "nation of immigrants"... yeah right!
Making fun of Yanks?

Are you British?  I have a friend trying to get a British Visa...her husband is British.  She's currently in the US for a few months, separated from her kids...'cuz England ain't all that easy either.

ender

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #69 on: February 21, 2019, 05:48:35 PM »
I guess I qualify for this. Weird. But I guess I am a high income earner now...

I don't know that $250k total comp at FB for direct from college coders is really true, even in the bay. I'd say $120k base is more realistic, IDK their bonus/stock structure though. Happy to be proven wrong, but knowing other big tech salaries I don't think FB pays THAT much more than AMZN, MSFT, etc.

I think it's on the higher end but probably realistic.

I talked a fair bit to Google recently and their entry level total comp was pretty close to $200k between RSUs, bonus, and salary (and goes way up from there). iirc Google pays less than Facebook too.



   I'm intrigued about high income earners, say people making over 125 k a year.  For those not in specialty positions which took lots of schooling to get there, is it competitive to keep your job? Do you face tough performance/sales quotas?  Is there a threat from a younger worker taking your job at less pay, or your job being outsourced? Do you find yourself working much harder than you did when you had a much lower paying job?   

HAHAHAHAHAH. No one has addressed outsourcing.

Every time this comes up I remember all the companies I've worked with who have lost millions (or more...) outsourcing projects to "save money." Outsourcing is great for a very small number of things. Knowledge work so far has not been outsourced well, especially in the IT/software development worlds. There may be successes in other knowledge work fields but I'm not aware of as many efforts other than the tech world.

I quit my last job partially because we had six off shore consultants and I literally accomplished less because I had to babysit them. My boss at one point asked me somewhat rhetorically how many of me it would take to replace them... I more or less said "well maybe one?" which probably wasn't even really fair because I would have been able to do a good percentage of their "work" had I not had to manage them.

By the time I will care about outsourcing as a real job threat I will be FI (imo it's at least 10+ years for that threat to matter). There are many major issues related to outsourcing knowledge work to China/India (or elsewhere; those are the two most common ones).

So ironically the more outsourcing happens the stronger job security I feel.

Bloop Bloop

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #70 on: February 21, 2019, 07:28:36 PM »
Most professional service jobs can't easily be outsourced. I don't see surgeons, trial lawyers, wealth managers, investment bankers getting outsourced.


HBFIRE

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #71 on: February 21, 2019, 07:38:03 PM »
To be fair, I think how replaceable you are depends more on the type of work you do (i.e. how specialized) than the income you earn. 

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2019, 08:12:38 PM »
To be fair, I think how replaceable you are depends more on the type of work you do (i.e. how specialized) than the income you earn.

I think this is true. And, the sweet spot is both in a specialized field that pays incredibly well. The cost to replace those employees (and embark on a multi year candidate search) is cost prohibitive, so an employer will most likely try to retain you

big_slacker

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2019, 07:38:21 AM »
I guess I qualify for this. Weird. But I guess I am a high income earner now...

I don't know that $250k total comp at FB for direct from college coders is really true, even in the bay. I'd say $120k base is more realistic, IDK their bonus/stock structure though. Happy to be proven wrong, but knowing other big tech salaries I don't think FB pays THAT much more than AMZN, MSFT, etc.

I think it's on the higher end but probably realistic.

I talked a fair bit to Google recently and their entry level total comp was pretty close to $200k between RSUs, bonus, and salary (and goes way up from there). iirc Google pays less than Facebook too.

I think it's POSSIBLE but definitely not the norm. Bryan995 posted that salary link from levels below. I'm right in the middle of that for one of the companies and it's spot on for total comp. It's also worth noting that the base pay and bonuses for all the companies are close, it's RSUs that make up the diff. Not that RSUs are bad, but everyone that works for these companies ends up with hundreds of thousands sitting there waiting to vest. It's a carrot, but it doesn't pay the bills. Saying you make $200k when you're making $120k base, not saying it's always disingenuous, but it's often fooling yourself, overly hopeful, etc. ;)

Also if you're working in a more toxic environment (AMZN, looking at you) they go even lower salary and higher RSUs but you've got to tough it out, many don't.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 07:41:13 AM by big_slacker »

ender

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2019, 08:04:45 AM »

I think it's POSSIBLE but definitely not the norm. Bryan995 posted that salary link from levels below. I'm right in the middle of that for one of the companies and it's spot on for total comp. It's also worth noting that the base pay and bonuses for all the companies are close, it's RSUs that make up the diff. Not that RSUs are bad, but everyone that works for these companies ends up with hundreds of thousands sitting there waiting to vest. It's a carrot, but it doesn't pay the bills. Saying you make $200k when you're making $120k base, not saying it's always disingenuous, but it's often fooling yourself, overly hopeful, etc. ;)

No one is saying this.  As best I can tell, everyone is directly using base/total comp appropriately in this thread. If you read what I wrote I explicitly called out the factors.

The number that the recruiter gave me was $180k+ for L4 and $165k for L3 (using midpoints in those ranges and the lower end of the yearly RSU comp the recruiter guesstimated). There are other factors too, 401k match, signing bonus, etc.

Regardless, even at a higher end those numbers aren't high enough to make me consider moving to the SFBA anyways. Which is kind of crazy when I think about it.

cats

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2019, 08:08:28 AM »
Just over the cited "high income" cutoff, I don't really worry about keeping my job.  I've seen people at my company who were difficult to work with and not performing any better than me, and management has tried to manage them out in various ways, but actual firing is quite difficult to do due to various job protections we have in place.  Our company actually also publishes a little newsletter on bad conduct cases and what the outcome was for the employees involved, and it seems you only get terminated for things like physical assault, DUI or speeding ticket while driving a company vehicle, or blatantly falsifying timesheets.  Just being annoying or mildly incompetent isn't going to result in termination. That's not to say your job/work life can't be made unpleasant if management would like you to leave, but ultimately the choice is typically the employee's, because firing is bad for everyone's morale.

Amongst my friend groups, I would say the lower income earners seem more likely to lose their jobs with not too much warning (or maybe they tend to be less observant than the higher income earners), or over things like personality clashes (as opposed to the whole company is just doing poorly).  i.e. I know someone who's husband got fired for filling out a timesheet wrong--but the error was that he filled out LESS time than he had actually worked.  Not the sort of thing you would expect to lose your job over.

dogboyslim

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #76 on: February 22, 2019, 08:26:31 AM »
Still, even the distant possibility of netting 200k USD after tax/expenses in Silicon Valley is alluring. If I can just meet all the ridiculous visa requirements. You yanks call yourselves a "nation of immigrants"... yeah right!

Its only hard if you are a professional.  If you want to be a day laborer just walk in and start working for cash.

big_slacker

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #77 on: February 22, 2019, 09:06:24 AM »

I think it's POSSIBLE but definitely not the norm. Bryan995 posted that salary link from levels below. I'm right in the middle of that for one of the companies and it's spot on for total comp. It's also worth noting that the base pay and bonuses for all the companies are close, it's RSUs that make up the diff. Not that RSUs are bad, but everyone that works for these companies ends up with hundreds of thousands sitting there waiting to vest. It's a carrot, but it doesn't pay the bills. Saying you make $200k when you're making $120k base, not saying it's always disingenuous, but it's often fooling yourself, overly hopeful, etc. ;)

No one is saying this.  As best I can tell, everyone is directly using base/total comp appropriately in this thread. If you read what I wrote I explicitly called out the factors.

The number that the recruiter gave me was $180k+ for L4 and $165k for L3 (using midpoints in those ranges and the lower end of the yearly RSU comp the recruiter guesstimated). There are other factors too, 401k match, signing bonus, etc.

Regardless, even at a higher end those numbers aren't high enough to make me consider moving to the SFBA anyways. Which is kind of crazy when I think about it.

I wasn't calling out anyone on the thread for that practice, sorry if it sounded like that. It's what a lot of folks around here do though, especially the younger ones. :)

Signing bonus is something that should be talked about as well. It's common practice to job hop early in career (and sometimes later) to avoid stagnation. When that every 2-3 year job hop comes with $25k/$25k-$50k/$50k Cash/RSUs it becomes not insignificant.

I did want to address the Aussie VISA thing as someone with multiple folks in the family and many colleagues (including some from your country) who have gone through the process. Work with a legit company that sponsors and has established programs. Let the company know on hire that you plan on moving to the US. I know that my employer and several of the other 'big tech' companies want people working at HQ, not in a satellite office halfway across the world. They will try to make it happen and they have people to help with the admittedly PITA process.  That said the REAL dream is to have the SV salary but live in a cheaper locale. It will stunt career growth so this move is best done when you're happy at your current level and want to ride on the jawb till your chosen retirement age.

twbird18

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2019, 12:43:23 PM »
I earn just over your cutoff. I work for the Federal government, not GSA payscale. It takes a not insignificant amount of time to get certified to do what I do so no, I don't have any concerns I'm going to lose my job ever.

ender

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2019, 06:40:42 PM »
Signing bonus is something that should be talked about as well. It's common practice to job hop early in career (and sometimes later) to avoid stagnation. When that every 2-3 year job hop comes with $25k/$25k-$50k/$50k Cash/RSUs it becomes not insignificant.

I did want to address the Aussie VISA thing as someone with multiple folks in the family and many colleagues (including some from your country) who have gone through the process. Work with a legit company that sponsors and has established programs. Let the company know on hire that you plan on moving to the US. I know that my employer and several of the other 'big tech' companies want people working at HQ, not in a satellite office halfway across the world. They will try to make it happen and they have people to help with the admittedly PITA process.  That said the REAL dream is to have the SV salary but live in a cheaper locale. It will stunt career growth so this move is best done when you're happy at your current level and want to ride on the jawb till your chosen retirement age.

Yep to all of this. Signing bonuses can be huge in the larger areas.

You don't even need a SV salary either in a cheaper locale. My current salary puts me over the OP's threshold (not really close to the SV salary range realistically) but I'm in a city that is right around middle of the cost of living for the USA (very average). It's nice to have a very nice house for $225kish and save a bunch of money trivially.

FI-King_Awesome

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #80 on: February 24, 2019, 01:19:22 AM »
It’s harder not to quit...

biggrey

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #81 on: February 24, 2019, 04:20:47 PM »
Fun thread.  As I've told many over the years, there are a huge number of people making this type of compensation in the US and Canada alone, not to mention Europe and Asia.

Where I plied my trade, $200K was the low end and million dollar comp is commonplace.  But, you have to survive for at least a while at that level to make it worth it and get "freed".  Some do, some definitely don't.

nemesis

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2019, 01:09:21 AM »
Interesting thread.  As a high earner (make over $200k), I have invested in myself every day / week / month / year to add to my skillset.  I work in a technically demanding role but I also have excellent people and communication skills, which is pretty rare in most circles.

As a result, I am able to positively influence my peers / customers to achieve the results that the company desires, for a positive outcome for all.

Am I replaceable? Sure... but they would have to look long and hard for someone with my skills / talents / experiences / drive / motivation to provide the value that I deliver.

As a result I have not had to look for a job in decades, and I get approached all the time to consider joining other businesses.  The people whom I have worked with all know what I am able to deliver, and when they move on to new jobs, they convince their management to try to poach me.  That has worked a few times, to positive results.

So is it hard to keep my job?  Not really, I deliver way more value than my salary.

If I were ever to be unemployed, I'm fairly certain I could start a profitable business and grow it. But I like not having to work 24/7 and worry about cash flow like most business owners, so I'm content making decent money as a W2 employee.

conwy

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2019, 02:58:34 PM »
Making fun of Yanks?

Are you British?  I have a friend trying to get a British Visa...her husband is British.  She's currently in the US for a few months, separated from her kids...'cuz England ain't all that easy either.

Am I British?! Not even close! Australian. ;)

Nah I sympathise with your friend. Immigration laws are pretty ridiculous all over the world and Australia's far from exemplary.

However, I'm currently working in the UK. Luckily they have a special T5 Youth Visa that anyone under 30 can get, which I opted for. Canada and Ireland two other countries I know of that would allow an Australian to work there for up to 2 years, while under the age of 35.

I could work in the USA if I got an E3 Visa, but that would require a degree or 12+ years of experience, neither of which I have yet. I'm considering getting an online degree just to be on the safe side, as even with the 12 years of experience, there are no guarantees, and if I get rejected just once, then I'm subsequently barred from the USA for life (apparently).

Just wondering whether it's worth dropping $20-30k AUD on a degree just so I can work in the USA. The salary I earn in the US would have to be at least $20-30k AUD more than I could make anywhere else, for the degree to be worthwhile, and I'm not yet sure whether that could be guaranteed.

I can believe grads in Silicon Valley make $200k out of the gate - well-connected, top 10%, ivy-league, super-hard-working kind of grads. I don't know that a random developer from Australia (albeit very experienced, talented and with good references) could score that level of salary right off the bat. And on an E3 visa, it would be tricky to change jobs.

Still maybe it's worth a shot. Even if I just worked in the US for 1 year and then moved back, there'd be a certain prestige to having worked for a Valley tech company.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 03:09:15 PM by conwy »

effigy98

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2019, 05:15:25 PM »
No college or anything. University of Google search and learning on the job. Make 300k to 500k a year (depending on bonus) programming a couple hours a day. My company does layoffs yearly. Usually they layoff entire teams to avoid legal repercussions I am told. Targeted individuals are usually in middle management but I am not in management. There is a good chance I will be a part of one of those teams one day, but I have side stepped a couple now and got lucky. I think my skills and output has very little to do with getting the layoff and it is more luck based. I feel like my bonus is also based on luck and has little to do with anything I do. I really just focused on getting FI (which I did recently) and know that right down the street are 5 more companies hiring programmers (probably for more) so I am able to ignore or care about layoffs... FU money was the key and keeping expenses low.

Alchemisst

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2019, 04:25:57 AM »
Lots of high salaries in here, would be interested to know what industries/ jobs these are

Schaefer Light

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #86 on: March 27, 2019, 06:08:21 AM »
Lots of high salaries in here, would be interested to know what industries/ jobs these are
And where they're located.

brute

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #87 on: March 27, 2019, 06:50:57 AM »
Lots of high salaries in here, would be interested to know what industries/ jobs these are
And where they're located.

Tech. Data Science specifically here. Jobs are concentrated in HCOL (Bay Area, NYC, Boston) areas, but you can find some good ones in places like Omaha, Huntsville, Albuquerque. The great part about tech is if you're good at what you do and have a bit of patience, you can often parlay that into a remote position, keeping your salary and living wherever you like.

londonbanker

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #88 on: March 27, 2019, 05:37:44 PM »
Lots of high salaries in here, would be interested to know what industries/ jobs these are
And where they're located.

Senior management in retail, UK

use2betrix

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #89 on: March 27, 2019, 08:25:52 PM »
Lots of high salaries in here, would be interested to know what industries/ jobs these are

Oil/Gas/Power/Industrial Construction - LCOL southern U.S.

gerardc

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #90 on: March 27, 2019, 09:28:42 PM »

New grad with a bachelor degree gets ~$180k total comp, a PhD gets ~$230k straight out of school. That's what I got

Now at ~$370k/year. Not among the highest in this thread, but after only 4.5 years of work, I'm pretty much FI already.

So, I'm going on a 6 month leave soon. Oh yeah, I'm slacking big time. Currently working an average of 25h/week (actual focused work) and I get great performance reviews. I might try pushing the income ladder later but currently, I don't feel up to my potential.

Alchemisst

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Re: high income earners, is it hard to keep your job?
« Reply #91 on: March 28, 2019, 03:44:57 AM »

New grad with a bachelor degree gets ~$180k total comp, a PhD gets ~$230k straight out of school. That's what I got

Now at ~$370k/year. Not among the highest in this thread, but after only 4.5 years of work, I'm pretty much FI already.

So, I'm going on a 6 month leave soon. Oh yeah, I'm slacking big time. Currently working an average of 25h/week (actual focused work) and I get great performance reviews. I might try pushing the income ladder later but currently, I don't feel up to my potential.

PHD in what can I ask?