Author Topic: Here's why we are all very very wealthy  (Read 12236 times)

retireatbirth

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Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« on: May 10, 2015, 03:27:44 PM »

Retired To Win

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2015, 04:09:50 PM »
Nope.

I'm very wealthy because I've figured out the difference between my needs and my wants.  And I have worked down the cost of meeting my needs to about one third of my passive income.

And... no phone apps required.

okits

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2015, 05:12:14 PM »
:) I will feel like an old fogey when I tell my kids we used to have to go to the library to look things up, and that only rich families laid out the thousands of dollars it cost to own a set of Encyclopedia Britannica (which took up an ungodly amount of shelf space.)

KungfuRabbit

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2015, 05:12:44 PM »
Yet so many people still pay for some of those things....

bzzzt

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2015, 07:52:38 PM »
And most people do nothing more than watch YouTube videos with it...

geekette

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2015, 08:16:17 PM »
We never had the encyclopedia, but my husband's family did.  I don't think they cost thousands, at least not when they bought them, but I'm pretty sure my DH read through the whole set, one article at a time...

My Dad worked for IBM from the late '50's, when computers were room sized, and died shortly before cell phones became handheld computers.  I think he would have enjoyed them.  I know I do! 

We have home movies that were taken with cameras you carried on your shoulder all day.  And you needed a separate camera for stills.  A half dozen maps in the glove box for trips (and always getting lost in Atlanta anyway).  Trying to find a decent radio station along the way.  Stopping at the Welcome Center to look for a hotel for the night.  I'm not nostalgic at all!



okits

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2015, 09:23:23 PM »
We never had the encyclopedia, but my husband's family did.  I don't think they cost thousands, at least not when they bought them, but I'm pretty sure my DH read through the whole set, one article at a time...

My Dad worked for IBM from the late '50's, when computers were room sized, and died shortly before cell phones became handheld computers.  I think he would have enjoyed them.  I know I do! 

We have home movies that were taken with cameras you carried on your shoulder all day.  And you needed a separate camera for stills.  A half dozen maps in the glove box for trips (and always getting lost in Atlanta anyway).  Trying to find a decent radio station along the way.  Stopping at the Welcome Center to look for a hotel for the night.  I'm not nostalgic at all!

Some of the "slow living" gets romanticized in our memories. Hubby and I mourn the death of the last video rental store in our area. We remember when going to rent a VHS tape was a big deal (especially as a kid.)

It has been more than a decade since I wore a watch.  Maybe closer to 15 years. 

Maybe E/Britannica was more expensive up in Canada (exchange rate)?  This is nearly 30 years ago but I remember my parents telling me it was more than $2k to buy a set (and we were not getting one.)

libertarian4321

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2015, 12:43:48 PM »


Better yet, I can get all that crap, plus a whole lot more, on a cheap computer that costs a whole lot less than a smart phone.

Plus, with that cheap computer, I can get phone service for about $3 a month, or less.  No need to pay $80 a month or whatever ridiculous monthly charges people pay to use their iWhatevertheHell VII phone.


gimp

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2015, 01:30:29 PM »
You can buy a smartphone for like $60, and pay a few bucks a month for basic cell usage, and $0 for wifi. You can similarly buy a basic computer for $60 or so, including all your various cables and power supplies but not including a screen (another $60 or so). No need to feel smug and superior about your computer instead of smartphone choice.

Eric

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2015, 01:35:08 PM »
Excellent post retireatbirth!  I'm also glad that I'm not paying $280K for GPS.  That would make me broke in a hurry!  And I think the rest of you may be missing the point just slightly.

mozar

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2015, 08:17:29 PM »
I might be missing the point but most people didn't buy that stuff back then. One of the reasons people are so broke today is because they are buying the $400 cell phone with $200 month plan. Consumerism just didn't exist like it does today. Back then the most people bought was a vcr.
My mom has decided to not have a phone for awhile. She almost wrote a note on my door the other day but I found her.
Here's my list:
Video conferencing: nobody used it, just call
Paper maps $10
Analog (tape) voice recorder $40
Regular watch for $20
Polaroid camera: $150
Ask grandma for medical advice: free
VCR: $100
Only rich uncle had a video camera
Discman: $350 in 1984
Encyclopedia: ask grandma or rich uncle
Atari: $199
I'm no Luddite but this list is silly.

retireatbirth

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2015, 09:15:46 PM »
I didn't have one point in mind when I posted this as I think it can be interpreted in many different valid ways. The image actually came from an article where a guy explained why he doesn't care about income inequality. We all have everything already!

Sid Hoffman

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2015, 11:51:58 PM »
And most people do nothing more than watch YouTube videos with it...

Yeah somewhere I saw somebody post a thing saying something along the lines of "Can you imagine going back in time 100 years and trying to explain that in the age you come from, you have the ability to hold a device that gives you access to all the knowledge in humanity right in your fingertips.  You will use it to send pictures of your dinner to your friends."

waltworks

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2015, 06:17:45 AM »
The irony of posting get off my lawn rants here is apparently lost on some folks...

-W

kpd905

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2015, 06:26:06 AM »
This reminds me of my dad telling me that the first VCR he ever bought was $500.  Used.

Otsog

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2015, 10:15:05 PM »
I might be missing the point but most people didn't buy that stuff back then. One of the reasons people are so broke today is because they are buying the $400 cell phone with $200 month plan. Consumerism just didn't exist like it does today. Back then the most people bought was a vcr.
My mom has decided to not have a phone for awhile. She almost wrote a note on my door the other day but I found her.
Here's my list:
Video conferencing: nobody used it, just call
Paper maps $10
Analog (tape) voice recorder $40
Regular watch for $20
Polaroid camera: $150
Ask grandma for medical advice: free
VCR: $100
Only rich uncle had a video camera
Discman: $350 in 1984
Encyclopedia: ask grandma or rich uncle
Atari: $199
I'm no Luddite but this list is silly.

The point isn't that we're saving money now. The point is the value of stuff that is available for free today.  Probably as a counterpoint to complaints about wage stagnation.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2015, 10:33:51 PM »
I have to wonder if lost productivity because of the smartphone doesn't trump the $900,000 of potential applications.

How many billions of dollars has useless texting and silly but addicting games cost in lost productivity?

We went from zero to landing on the moon in a decade, using slide rules.   Today with the ultra fast computers we use a 30 year old Russian rocket to get our people 200 miles up.

stripey

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2015, 11:24:51 PM »
You can buy a smartphone for like $60, and pay a few bucks a month for basic cell usage, and $0 for wifi. You can similarly buy a basic computer for $60 or so, including all your various cables and power supplies but not including a screen (another $60 or so). No need to feel smug and superior about your computer instead of smartphone choice.

I usually ask about whenever my phone dies, someone will usually give me their old smartphone (that is, less than 18 months old!) for nothing. Seems to do the job fine.

dragoncar

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2015, 12:06:14 AM »
If I paid $100k for a videoconferencing system, I'd probably use it all the time.  But since I paid $0, I basically never use it.  I think about this whenever I get the urge to buy some new device (Apple watch would be an example if I had the urge to purchase).

retireatbirth

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2015, 05:53:46 AM »
I bet a lot of those items used to be wants, but now that they are free consumerists replace them with new wants like a shiny Apple watch.

gimp

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2015, 03:37:25 PM »
Oh, and while we're on this subject, let's not forget that the first computers cost millions (or tens of millions of dollars) and were about as powerful as a modern $0.20 microchip, and frankly less useful and infinitely less reliable and more maintenance-hungry.

Now, here's a small rebuttal to the idea that we have all these lovely features and capability and don't use them wisely. Let's look at, for example, video games. Frivolous expenditure, right? You have to pay for a computer with a nice graphics card (okay, these days, you don't have to, but that's a recent development) or a console. You have to pay electricity costs. You have to pay for most games, either up front or monthly or by purchasing crap in-game.

However, the difference between video games and TV is that video games subsidize science. Seriously - massive, absolutely massive data throughput and computational power used by public and private laboratories world-wide, whether it's nuclear modeling or weather modeling or physics or protein folding or security analysis, and so on and so on, would have been years or decades behind if people didn't play video games. Similarly, business computing would have been years or decades behind if early video game platforms (and computers used for the same) were never developed and never sold. Those massively parallel computation machines - they may be used for science and business, but they were developed to draw pixels on a screen and shade in triangles. PCs (as in, non-mainframe computers, ignoring the precise hardware and OS that some might call a PC or not a PC) would have been much more expensive if not for people buying them for video games, and the pace of their development would have been much slower. Similarly, all sorts of CAD would be far behind.

The story is the same for that frivolous smartphone people have. Regardless of how silly you think they are, every phone sold makes every phone next year more accessible. Maybe for you that just means same cost but better features and you don't care, but for a lot of people, that means they will for the first time be able to access the internet. If nobody bought the original $1000 iphone and smartphones died, there may well have been a billion fewer people today who have internet access. But people did buy them, and people do buy them, and that's why we have $60 phones that require almost zero wired infrastructure (massively expensive compared to cellular voice/data infrastructure) and therefore can both be bought and used in countries that don't have modern roads/electricity/communication.

TLDR Regardless of your opinions on things like video games or smartphones, the huge amount of money they generate make a lot of modern science, business, industry, and communication possible. That's pretty cool, IMO.

bb11

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2015, 08:50:30 AM »
Quote
Oh, and while we're on this subject, let's not forget that the first computers cost millions (or tens of millions of dollars) and were about as powerful as a modern $0.20 microchip, and frankly less useful and infinitely less reliable and more maintenance-hungry.

Now, here's a small rebuttal to the idea that we have all these lovely features and capability and don't use them wisely. Let's look at, for example, video games. Frivolous expenditure, right? You have to pay for a computer with a nice graphics card (okay, these days, you don't have to, but that's a recent development) or a console. You have to pay electricity costs. You have to pay for most games, either up front or monthly or by purchasing crap in-game.

However, the difference between video games and TV is that video games subsidize science. Seriously - massive, absolutely massive data throughput and computational power used by public and private laboratories world-wide, whether it's nuclear modeling or weather modeling or physics or protein folding or security analysis, and so on and so on, would have been years or decades behind if people didn't play video games. Similarly, business computing would have been years or decades behind if early video game platforms (and computers used for the same) were never developed and never sold. Those massively parallel computation machines - they may be used for science and business, but they were developed to draw pixels on a screen and shade in triangles. PCs (as in, non-mainframe computers, ignoring the precise hardware and OS that some might call a PC or not a PC) would have been much more expensive if not for people buying them for video games, and the pace of their development would have been much slower. Similarly, all sorts of CAD would be far behind.

The story is the same for that frivolous smartphone people have. Regardless of how silly you think they are, every phone sold makes every phone next year more accessible. Maybe for you that just means same cost but better features and you don't care, but for a lot of people, that means they will for the first time be able to access the internet. If nobody bought the original $1000 iphone and smartphones died, there may well have been a billion fewer people today who have internet access. But people did buy them, and people do buy them, and that's why we have $60 phones that require almost zero wired infrastructure (massively expensive compared to cellular voice/data infrastructure) and therefore can both be bought and used in countries that don't have modern roads/electricity/communication.

TLDR Regardless of your opinions on things like video games or smartphones, the huge amount of money they generate make a lot of modern science, business, industry, and communication possible. That's pretty cool, IMO.

Great points, and interesting discussion. Following.

Bob W

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2015, 09:28:05 AM »
I guess I'm reverse engineering this nowadays.

We like to buy used VHS tapes at thrift stores for 50cents.  We have hundreds.   You can buy a new VHS player for $25.   There you go -- a years worth of TV entertainment can be had for $125.   

Although we do enjoy the shit out of our tablets and Roku as well. 

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2015, 04:07:16 PM »
I guess I'm reverse engineering this nowadays.

We like to buy used VHS tapes at thrift stores for 50cents.  We have hundreds.   You can buy a new VHS player for $25.   There you go -- a years worth of TV entertainment can be had for $125.   

Although we do enjoy the shit out of our tablets and Roku as well.

Going back to VHS for me would be like powering up my Tandy Model I to browse the internet.

Elbata

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2015, 06:24:42 PM »
Much agree, Retireatbirth. In the book "The Rational Optimist", the author illustrates the cost of light from hundreds of years ago to today. (And of course, the less things cost, the more time--which is wealth). It's an extraordinary figure and I would bet it's even more so since the book came out. Today most of the light in my house is LED VS incandescent.

Also, when I look at my phone, it much like you say. I just shake my head at how many things can be done with my phone. (Kindle reader with all my books, camera, video recorder, video editor, well we all get the idea).

In the 80s, when I really realized the power of a library (I learned how to look up items using microfiche) I just had to go and sit outside the library and contemplate this huge realization. Then it was 1995 I discovered the internet. It was like my library discovery times 100. To this day I'm still in awe.

ender

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Re: Here's why we are all very very wealthy
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2015, 06:34:38 PM »
TLDR Regardless of your opinions on things like video games or smartphones, the huge amount of money they generate make a lot of modern science, business, industry, and communication possible. That's pretty cool, IMO.

Yup.

This is true of a lot of other stuff too, anytime you get a consumer/mainstream adoption of technology it takes off much faster since there is so much more financial incentive to research it (3D printing and drones come to mind as other examples).