Helaine Olen: not a fan of MMM

[AdrianC]

Bloomberg View columnist Barry Ritholtz interviews Helaine Olen. Olen is columnist at Slate and the author of "Pound Foolish: Exposing the Dark Side of the Personal Finance Industry" and "The Index Card: Why Personal Finance Doesn’t Have to Be Complicated" with Harold Pollack. They discuss personal finance and the shortcomings of financial literacy and advice.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/audio/2016-03-24/barry-ritholtz-s-masters-in-business-helaine-olen-interview

They talk briefly about MMM at 57:20.

Earlier she talks about the "judgment" and "scolding" that goes on in financial writing.

"...I think that his [MMM's] answer in just simply blaming consumerism is completely and utterly wrong."

Whatever.

[Two9A]

"Whatever" is correct: consumerism is the root of all frivolous spending, one leads to the other.

[spokey doke]

Give me a break...MMM does heap tons of scorn on consumerism, but that is just half of the equation...she is ignoring the massive piece about what to do with that money you save (which is convenient for her, as it provides competition for her books).

[undercover]

Ultimately, I don't think MMM is really an anti-consumerist - he's more of an environmentalist with ideas on how to hack your way through a consumeristic society and come out way ahead.

[Tjat]

Ms. Olen appears to be focused more on her political agenda than actual thoughts on MMM.

[purephase]

I always have a difficult time believing anything someone like Olen says, putting down what someone else thinks does not automatically make your own argument stronger. Besides for me MMM is not anti consumerist, he is anti stupid, unnecessary consumerism.

[Thrifty Snail]

Is there anything wrong with not being into consumerism?

[mozar]

Whenever I read her column I think why doesn't she recommend MMM? The answer to the LW question is MMM! Person writes "I hate my job and I have a million dollars what should I do" and she'll all like "work until your hands fall off"
Now I know why she doesn't recommend MMM. Don't think I can read her column anymore.

[samburger]

Well, Olen is right, but I think she and MMM are writing from very different angles. Olen is writing about society, not the individual. She means that consumerism isn't the cause of systematic dysfunction. E.g., consumerism isn't the reason we have a whole class of working poor.

MMM writes about and to the individual, particularly individuals with a decent income (not the working poor). So, he IS right that consumerism is a problem for a family making $100k and saving nothing because they're trying to buy their way to prestige.

My guess is that Olen is targeting him because he's a rich dude who insists that his methods work no matter your income. Most folks who are actually poor or who study poverty or who have any real awareness of the machinations of poverty disagree with him on that one.

[SoftwareGoddess]

My guess is that Olen is targeting him because he's a rich dude who insists that his methods work no matter your income.

Do you have a reference for that? Because I have heard him say (on a local radio show) that his methods are aimed at people with a middle class income.

[Syonyk]

Is there anything wrong with not being into consumerism?

Well, other than contributing to the downfall of our Modern Consumerist Economy, no.  You know, you not buying stuff is why the economy is so bad!

</mild sarcasm, but I'm sure you can find people who would make exactly this argument and be serious>

[Libertea]

Never heard of this Olen person, but I'm curious: is she FI?  If not, maybe she should take a step back and consider the possibility that she could learn something from someone who has achieved a major financial goal that she has not.  Even if you don't agree with the general philosophy of MMM, you can still gain a lot of value from understanding how he accomplished what he did.

[Nickels Dimes Quarters]

I've never heard of her either. Not everyone is suited for this lifestyle. That's ok. It's not as if we need anyone's approval for FIRE other than our own.

NDQ

[Psychstache]

Never heard of this Olen person, but I'm curious: is she FI?  If not, maybe she should take a step back and consider the possibility that she could learn something from someone who has achieved a major financial goal that she has not.  Even if you don't agree with the general philosophy of MMM, you can still gain a lot of value from understanding how he accomplished what he did.

Bad on my knowledge of her work, her response would talk about how she doesn't need to step back and look because any idiot can see the systemic corruption of the financial services industry that keeps everyday folks down.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[iris lily]

Never heard of this Olen person, but I'm curious: is she FI?  If not, maybe she should take a step back and consider the possibility that she could learn something from someone who has achieved a major financial goal that she has not.  Even if you don't agree with the general philosophy of MMM, you can still gain a lot of value from understanding how he accomplished what he did.

Bad on my knowledge of her work, her response would talk about how she doesn't need to step back and look because any idiot can see the systemic corruption of the financial services industry that keeps everyday folks down.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Yes. We had a thread on Helen Olen's book some time ago. She is of the persuasion that people,are unable to take care of themselves due to The System and Income Inequality.

[spokey doke]

Never heard of this Olen person, but I'm curious: is she FI?  If not, maybe she should take a step back and consider the possibility that she could learn something from someone who has achieved a major financial goal that she has not.  Even if you don't agree with the general philosophy of MMM, you can still gain a lot of value from understanding how he accomplished what he did.

Bad on my knowledge of her work, her response would talk about how she doesn't need to step back and look because any idiot can see the systemic corruption of the financial services industry that keeps everyday folks down.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Yes. We had a thread on Helen Olen's book some time ago. She is of the persuasion that peole,are unable to tke care of themselves due tomorrow mThe System and Income inequality.

Well that puts a different spin on the original quote...but I don't see MMM trying to explain poverty or inequality or the economy, or give economic policy advice, or even provide an explanation of why ALL people retire later than they might otherwise be able to.  Sure there are dangers if policy makers were to say: 'Hey, look at MMM - he says you just need to stop being sucka's and you can live a great life, let's cut more social programs and not worry about the minimum wage!'  But that would be a misappropriation of MMM.