Author Topic: HealthCare Subsidy- Calculating the MAGI considering Qualified Dividends  (Read 8443 times)

BobJax

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
When calculating the subsidy, do I add back qualified dividends from line 9b on the form 1040?

Answer: (I added this after I did all the posting below. So you can skip my next posts.)

Qualified Dividend are great because you pay no tax until you make $72,500.

But what about those MAGI (Modified Adjusted Gross Income) calculations for the subsidy and social security tax? Do you add qualified dividends as listed on 9b to the Ordinary Dividends listed on 9a? NO! Because qualified dividends (9b) are ALREADY included in ordinary dividends (9a).

Qualified dividends are ordinary dividends.  9b is a memo figuire for use later in the tax process.
Thanks
« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 12:03:18 PM by BobJax »

footenote

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 801
  • MMMing in MN

BobJax

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: HealthCare Subsidy
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 05:10:15 PM »
Thanks Footenote,
Based on the info in your link, it appears that qualified dividends are not added in. (At least, that is the way I read it.)
This is the same when calculating the Social Security tax according to an IRS agent I spoke with recently.
I appreciate your responce.
Thanks

BobJax

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: HealthCare Subsidy
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 07:45:49 AM »
Found this definition of MAGI at HHS.Gov:
http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/section/1004-income-definitions.pdf

‘‘(C) MODIFIED ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME.—The term
‘modified adjusted gross income’ means adjusted gross
income increased by—
‘‘(i) any amount excluded from gross income under
section 911, and
‘‘(ii) any amount of interest received or accrued
by the taxpayer during the taxable year which is
exempt from tax.’’

So the question is: What does Section 911 say?

Well here it is:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/911
But there is only one reference to qualified dividends is:
(ii) the taxpayer’s qualified dividend income shall be reduced by so much of such capital gain excess as exceeds the taxpayer’s net capital gain

Hmm ..no clue what that means!!!

This passage is in this section:
(2) Special rules
(A) Regular tax
In applying section 1 (h) for purposes of determining the tax under paragraph (1)(A)(i) for any taxable year in which, without regard to this subsection, the taxpayer’s net capital gain exceeds taxable income (hereafter in this subparagraph referred to as the capital gain excess)—
(i) the taxpayer’s net capital gain (determined without regard to section 1 (h)(11)) shall be reduced (but not below zero) by such capital gain excess,
(ii) the taxpayer’s qualified dividend income shall be reduced by so much of such capital gain excess as exceeds the taxpayer’s net capital gain (determined without regard to section 1 (h)(11) and the reduction under clause (i)), and
(iii) adjusted net capital gain, unrecaptured section 1250 gain, and 28-percent rate gain shall each be determined after increasing the amount described in section 1 (h)(4)(B) by such capital gain excess.



footenote

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 801
  • MMMing in MN
Re: HealthCare Subsidy
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 08:33:09 AM »
I'll bet accountants are going to get quite good at MAGI questions in the coming year!

BobJax

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: HealthCare Subsidy
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 09:07:18 AM »
From the IRS:
Affordable Care Act Topics
7. What is household income?

For purposes of the premium tax credit, your household income is your modified adjusted gross income plus that of every other individual in your family for whom you can properly claim a personal exemption deduction and who is required to file a federal income tax return. Modified adjusted gross income is the adjusted gross income on your federal income tax return plus any excluded foreign income, nontaxable Social Security benefits (including tier 1 railroad retirement benefits), and tax-exempt interest received or accrued during the taxable year. It does not include Supplemental Security Income (SSI).
OK, seems simple ... of course, it won't be.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Questions-and-Answers-on-the-Premium-Tax-Credit

BobJax

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: HealthCare Subsidy
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2013, 09:34:15 AM »
From: 30378 Federal Register/ Vol. 77, No. 100 / Wednesday, May 23, 2012 / Rules and Regulations


c. Modified Adjusted Gross Income
Under the proposed regulations,
modified adjusted gross income is
adjusted gross income increased by
amounts excluded from gross income
under section 911 and tax-exempt
interest a taxpayer receives or accrues
during the taxable year. The 3%
Withholding Repeal and Job Creation
Act, Public Law 112–56 (125 Stat. 711
(2011)), which was enacted after the
proposed regulations were published,
amended the definition of modified
adjusted gross income to include Social
Security benefits (as defined in section
86(d)) not included in gross income
under section 86. The final regulations
reflect this amendment.

rocketman48097

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Re: HealthCare Subsidy- Calculating the MAGI considering Qualified Dividends
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2013, 10:45:36 AM »
OK, I am a CPA but I am NOT a tax accountant.  However, this is an area of interest of mine.

Your question is confusing.  I looked at my 2012 tax return, which includes both capital gains and dividend income, qualified.  Both these amounts are ALREADY included in adjusted gross income, so you do not need to add it "back" to get to MAGI.

These will count against you for subsidy calculations.  You do have an alternative though possibly.  Put this money into a Roth instead where they won't show up on your tax return, or sell your dividend bearing stocks and get a low or no interest bearing bank account instead, which of course will hurt your wealth building.

The affordable care act is a big burden when it comes to early retirement for high income earners.  However, there are some strategies to avoid this new tax, but I may do all of this in a separate post because it would take too long here. 

clrodrick

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Hello, I'm a new registered account, so hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask a question right off the bat.

I'm still confused about what to add and not add to calculate MAGI for the potential ACA subsidy.  By reading this thread, I do include *all* dividends, both ordinary and qualified, yes?  What about distributions from MLPs?  I've tried researching this online but have yet to see a definitive answer.  I am guessing no until I sell the units?  Also, what about stocks and or closed end funds that have ROC (return of capital)?  I would guess that is not included because it lowers your cost basis and is not truly income just return of capital.  But does anybody know for sure?  Thanks in advance, and I hope to be a regular contributor to this community.  I'm 41 and semi-retired (maybe 2/3 retired) and am still feeling my way around these various issues to figure out my budget.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!