Have you paid for time/convenience while still on your path to FI?

[RVAguy]

I'm interested in hearing anyone else's experience "outsourcing chores" or "buying leisure time" while still on their path to FI.

My specific example
I had a 60% savings rate and was 1/3 of the way to FI, but was frustrated by limited free time. So, I found a new job that had significantly reduced hours, but with the same pay and job security. Unfortunately, I began to feel like I was just going through the motions at work and I became very unmotivated; when I'm interested in something, I like to go all in. I ended up switching back to a more intense role that was very interesting and motivating, but I was again frustrated by my limited free time.

To claw back some leisure time, I've hired someone to clean my house, and may hire someone to do more of my chores (e.g., laundry, shopping, some cooking). It will likely bring my savings rate down to 50%, but I will enjoy my career again and still have time for friends and hobbies.


Has anyone else had similar experiences? What have you done to outsource household chores and increase your leisure time? And looking back, do you feel you've made the right decision?

[tomsang]

I think everyone pays for time/convenience.  Otherwise you would build your own home, grow your own food, obtain your own heating supply, etc.  If you are talking about the Anti-Mustachian items then yes.  We use a yard service, have a cleaning service, use tutors, go out for dinner, use cars, pay for education, and probably many more items.  Saving rate is still in the high 60% range so we are not sacrificing our savings too much.

[HappyMargo]

I tend to work 10 to 12 hour days at a very physical job. There are days I get home & can barely bother to lift my arms.  Those are times either DH must cook or we eat out at restaurants (too often for sure!)  But we still save 58-72% of take home pay each month (income varies.)

I would absolutely love to have house cleaning help, but just feel too guilty over the price of that.  Every now & then, DH mentions hiring out lawn care for our teeny-tiny yard.  I generally ask him if his legs are broken.  (Kind of a joke between us now)

[BlueHouse]

Yes, and I think the OP's post is the perfect argument to all of the mustachians who believe there is no reason to hire house cleaners.  I have a job that I'm not crazy about, but the pay is right.  I choose to keep this job rather than a lower paying one that I would actually prefer.  Thanks OP.

[ColorOfCash]

I'm getting a massage every two weeks so I can work 70+ hrs/week with my hands (1% of my income during that time).

Bought high-end coffee machine and computer components as well so I'm not tempted for Starbucks or giving up my gig work out of frustration.

Hiring independent contractors to help me with my gig work so I can take a vacation for month of June without having to worry about my customers.

I pay for internet plan on my cell phone so I can answer clients wherever (convenience).

[abhe8]

Not currently. But I plan to soon. I would rather spend my time working and with my kids, so I will be glad to pay someone else to clean for me. I think it's a matter of income level and schedule and priorities. There is a certain combo of those three at which it just makes sense to hire out somethings. But, I do not figure that "hired help" will be a long term or retirement expense.

[zinethstache]

I had to think about this one. DH is already FIREd. I still have my day job for a few more years while DH handles our rentals. We both feel our free time is important and we spend money on our hobbies that could definitely build the stache faster. We still average 50% savings and if I found us dipping below that consistently we would tighten up our hobby spending.  The nice thing is we've switched our hobbies to better align with FIREd activities. Traveling, technology and crafting are what we splurge on these days. Gone are the days of dinners, movies, skiiing, golfing and showing horses. Ah we do pay for movies now, but via Amazon or Comcast, no more movie theater movies. After FIRE depending on our burn rate we could pick up some of those hobbies again, but likely in moderation.

After our intense travel years post FIRE I could see moving to a low COLA and having property with a horse, cow and other farm animals on it. I would enjoy the horse but definitely would not be traveling thousands of miles showing it. After all, I could see a horse, well really two of them, being very handy in the zombie apocalypse:)

[wearfannypacks]

Yup.

Housecleaner every 3 weeks. Best $80 I spend all month. What she does in 3 hours would take me at least a full day.

[MsPeacock]

I order my groceries and have them delivered about 1/2 the time. Like PP - I work very long days and my weekend time w/ my kids is important to me. The grocery store is high on my list of places I do not want to spend time. The $10 for delivery is well worth the cost for me.

[Luckyvik]

$70 per forthnight for 2hrs of cleaners,  would take me twice as long to do half as good a job


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[Retire-Canada]

I don't do the oil changes on my truck. The dealer charges a reasonable rate and rotates my tires at the same time and tops up all my fluids for no extra cost.

I service my own motorcycle and bicycles though. It's so easy I'd feel bad getting someone to do that.

-- Vik

[jodelino]

Yes, $100 to a housecleaner every 2 weeks for 5 hours of work at the house; as others have noted, she's a pro and it would take me an entire weekend to do what she does in 5 hours, and she notices things I don't notice, and that leaves me & DH free time together on weekends. I enjoy cooking, laundry, and yard work & hate cleaning. Money well spent.

$20/hour to another cleaner to clean my vacation rental property between guests. I do the cleaning if she can't make it on a turnover. I enjoy many aspects of property management, but not the cleaning. And again, she notices things I don't.

[Livewell]

we have a lawn guy (I still do the plant gardening) and a housekeeper twice a month.  About $270/month total.

both of us are working, we are saving 50%+ depending on my earnings (I work commission)

Just came down to wanting some extra help with our first child, and outsourcing some of the housework was a good way to go.

Once FIRE, I do plan on mowing the lawn (or replacing it) myself, and likely bumping down or eliminating the house keeper.

[kpd905]

I've gone out to eat a few times a month, and consider that paying for convenience.  Although it normally takes a lot more time than making a meal at home.

[Cressida]

Where do you all live that housecleaning is so cheap? When we still paid for housecleaning, we couldn't find anyone for less than $100 an hour.

[tomsang]

Edmonds, Wa $20 per hour. $100 an hour is crazy high

[sol]

I have children.  Paying a house cleaner would be like admitting "I'm a failure as a parent because I have not taught my children to clean up after themselves" and I'm not yet prepared to take that step.

From my perspective, part of being a parent is teaching your kids how to be self sufficient.  They need to know how to do their own laundry, and vacuum their own rooms, and wash their own dishes.  If I did all of those things for them (or worse, paid someone else to do those things for them) then they would grow up and leave the house incapable of running their own households. 

Someday they will need to know how to balance their own checkbooks and mow their own lawns, too.  Should I also pay people to do those chores so that my kids never have to?   

How about learning how to drive?  I could hire a driver for them so they would never have to learn how.  Where does it end? 

What skills do you want your kids to have when they grow up?  Don't pay anyone to do any of those things.

[Cathy]

For me, this is a privacy issue, not a financial issue. Even if the service were free, I would be reluctant to let somebody else clean my living space. Even when I stay at hotels, I always put up the "do not disturb" sign for my entire stay. I don't like to have other people in the space where I am living.

The time I spend housecleaning is also negligible in the first place. The idea of spending "an entire weekend" cleaning is foreign to me. Spending too much time housecleaning could be linked to having a larger home than necessary.

[Luckyvik]

I agree with Sol, I don't have children but if I did I would have them contribute to the household by cleaning. My parents are only now trying to get my brother in his early 20s to clean up after himself, seriously they should have started when he was a kid. I must admit they didn't get me to do much when I was living at home but when I moved out this hurt me as I didn't know how to cook anything.


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[MrFancypants]

I do every now and then, because I always factor in the opportunity cost of giving my time to a task as opposed to paying cash.

Most of the tasks I pay for have to do with house work that I'm not equipped to handle, or occasionally auto repairs.

[jodelino]

$100/hour for housecleaning in Seattle? Wow. Is that to a company that sends several cleaners at a time to your home? Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickled and Dimed" for an account of working for one of those companies.

I live in the SW and pay $20/hour cash to someone excellent & trustworthy who only makes $10.15/hour in her full-time job, so the $20 is good to her. She started out as a tenant, but negotiated cleaning in exchange for rent reduction & it worked out well.

I guess I consider myself already RE from housecleaning as I don't enjoy it and consequently don't do a great job. My cleaner passionately hates dirt and is motivated to leave things sparkling in a way I will never be.

But Sol, I admire your parenting!

[The_path_less_taken]

It's ALL an equation. YMMV on what is a 'reasonable' amount of money to pay for something, or a reasonable amount of time.

I theoretically 'could' trim my horse and burros hooves...but the reality is the farrier does it quicker/better and I don't really mind paying him for that service.

Some stuff would be difficult to do by myself, and I'll hire labor for it if I have to. I need some concrete poured for a sunroom and I'm not moving 4 yards of mud by wheelbarrow!

[Cressida]

$100/hour for housecleaning in Seattle? Wow. Is that to a company that sends several cleaners at a time to your home? Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickled and Dimed" for an account of working for one of those companies.

No, just one person with their own business. And yeah, the account in "Nickel and Dimed" is one of the reasons we never used a big company - that and the fact that my mom used one sometimes when I was a kid and the worker spent half the time watching soap operas.

[tomsang]

$100/hour for housecleaning in Seattle? Wow. Is that to a company that sends several cleaners at a time to your home? Read Barbara Ehrenreich's "Nickled and Dimed" for an account of working for one of those companies.

No, just one person with their own business. And yeah, the account in "Nickel and Dimed" is one of the reasons we never used a big company - that and the fact that my mom used one sometimes when I was a kid and the worker spent half the time watching soap operas.

With the fact that you are paying 5 times the going rate I would cancel the cleaning service or go find someone in the $15 to $20 range. Craigslist or friends should point you in the right direction.

[Cressida]

Um, we haven't used housecleaners in quite a while. What I said was this:

Where do you all live that housecleaning is so cheap? When we still paid for housecleaning, we couldn't find anyone for less than $100 an hour.

And I disagree with you about the going rate, but it's a moot question.

[dunhamjr]

yep.

i pay a pest control service ~$53/mo to come out and treat the house, immediate surrounding area for ants/spiders and mice.
i have tried to keep up the fight, but those beasts are relentless.

the service comes out for about 30-60 minutes.  refills external bait stations, replaces glueboard trap, snap traps, and sprays the perimeter/entries as needed.

if i need them to come back between appts that is essentially part of their service guarantee and is free.

[Retire-Canada]

For me, this is a privacy issue, not a financial issue. Even if the service were free, I would be reluctant to let somebody else clean my living space. Even when I stay at hotels, I always put up the "do not disturb" sign for my entire stay. I don't like to have other people in the space where I am living.

LOL - that sounds like me. The GF gets annoyed with me at hotels for constantly leaving the DND sign on the door.

At home she pays for a cleaner to come in a couple times a month despite me saying that it's lame.

I actually have to do extra work on days the cleans are coming because I don't want them touching my stuff so I put it all away.

The dishwasher that came with the house broke and I won't replace it because I'm happy to do dishes by hand. So every time she complains I let her know she is welcome to buy a dishwasher and get it installed. I'll usually start doing the dishes while this discussion goes on in the kitchen and be done in a few minutes to prove my point.

-- Vik

[Cassie]

I started paying for cleaners when my kids were teens & still do 1x per month. The rest of the time we all cleaned. It is a good deep cleaning & then we keep it up.  The cost is $75.00 & they have 2 people that clean 1400 sq ft in 2 hours. Just make sure you use a company that is bonded & insured.  For us this has been priceless in the time that it allows us.

[ria1024]

I have a cleaning lady come once every two weeks - she spends about 3 hours cleaning, and I pay her $70 for it.  My fiance and I are both fairly messy people by nature, so this forces us to clean up the house so that she can clean everything, and means that the house is really clean twice a month! 

Post-FIRE I'd probably cut that expense out, but we both work and have limited free time; cleaning is one of the lower cost things that neither of us enjoys doing, so it's a great option for contracting out.

In my case, I've had the same cleaning lady for 4 years now, and I found out about her through a friend, so it's not like there's a stream of random people wandering through the house to get the cleaning done.

I don't pay anyone for most of the yard / garden / minor home repairs; I will contract out for big or highly skilled jobs.  Since I bought the house 5 years ago I've spent about $15K residing the house, $7k having a lot of trees removed (I'm not messing with a 100'+ tall tree, 24"+ diameter, 15' from my house and 10' from my garage, or several large trees growing in or next to the electrical wires), and $12K replacing the septic system.

[Meggslynn]

Yes we do.

Mostly DIY projects that would take us 10x as long as a professional and we would most likely be calling them in the end anyways.

Also, my husband just got a kick ass job but his shifts are 12-8. We have a three year old son that is in bed at 7:30. So this means our weekends are going to be our only time to spend together as a whole family. Before our weekends were our time for chores, errand running and family time as we still had our week day evenings together. We have decided we will be hiring a housecleaner every two weeks so we can spend our time together swimming, bike riding, visiting museums, picnics etc rather than cleaning. This will cost us $75 every two weeks as our house is rather small. To me, without a doubt this is worth the extra money.

Also, I have an hour lunch break at work so I plan on using that hour to run the errands I can so we do not have to do them on the weekends.

[backandforth]

Don't really hire help (in the sense of housekeeping, yard care) in the past, but need to start soon.

We are expecting, I can't do much physically anymore and bubby work 80+hr week, and I can only see more house work when the little ones come.

Expected savings rate probably be lowered by 10-15%, without considering education fund, with child care and hired help. :(

[Prepube]

it is not "unmustachian" to have a contractor help you if your net gain is still above zero.  I pay someone 20.00/hour to clean my house while i make 150.00 per hour during the same time period.  My net is 130/hour for a service that, yes, i could have done myself, but prioritized my work (or family, or children, or dogs or whatever you want to insert here) over that chore.  It is about balance, and balance is achieved by making good choices about how to spend your time and money.  I could spend 200.00 an hour for an accountant, or i can buy turbotax or open the tax code and read it myself.  I choose to do that myself so that i can have others do the pieces i don't like to do or that results in higher quality if someone with those skills does it.  Running a successful business (and yes, i consider my home as sort of a side-gig) requires employees to be profitable.  I think its crazy to treat it any other way over the long term.  We can't all be like MMM and be skilled carpenters, roofers, writers and all the other stuff he does.  I feel lucky if i can do just a fraction of what he does at home, because home fixing and building just ain't in my skill set.

[bzzzt]

Trying to keep my cool, but DW just sprung it on me that she had a cleaning service come over and give her an estimate.

$120 to clean a 1000 sq. ft house! My wife thinks it's great and wants to have them over bi-weekly!?! That's $3120 annually! Compounded annually over 10 years @ 3%, that's $39,960!

At first I wanted to blow a gasket, I think I'll tell her she can pay me! It'd pay better than my side hustle!

[retired?]

Paid for cleaning for about 6 years.  Last time was in Chicago....5500 sf house.  Took the lady 4-5 hours.  She charged $100....total.

Main reason we had one is a) my wife had one for much of her upbringing, i.e. it was her idea, and b) if we did it ourselves, then I would be chipping in and doing half.  Fine, but I could afford it and I am not that efficient when it comes to cleaning.  The ladies we have had are incredibly so.

We don't have one now since I'm not working and cannot justify it.

Always did lawn work and other stuff I could handle....pool maintenance, minor car stuff.

I was amazed to see that our neighbors had a "assembly service" in their driveway to disassemble a b-ball hoop and assemble a new one.  The guy did it completely by himself (proving it was a one-person job).  It must have cost them an additional $125 or so on top of the $250 for hoop.  I don't feel too bad when I see people doing stuff like that.

[2lazy2retire]

No feelings one way or the other but the whole house cleaning thing in my experience is very much an American phenomena. Maybe things have changed back home but the idea of having someone clean your house would have seemed excessively extravagant. Maybe its because the houses are so oversized here

[protostache]

We pay for a lawn service. I'm not super crazy about the idea, but my wife and I both work full time and I'm allergic to grass, which makes mowing a miserable experience. Three people come out every other week in the summer and are in and out in 20 minutes, for $45 each time. Lawn looks beautiful and we don't have to worry about storing and maintaining equipment.

Not to say we didn't give it a go, of course. We bought a nice electric mower but after three weeks of mowing the starter button broke, so we took it back and hired the service.

[Rubic]

A long time ago I paid for lawn service because I would be out of town frequently.  Then I realized I needed to live somewhere without a lawn.

[bzzzt]

Fine, but I could afford it and I am not that efficient when it comes to cleaning.  The ladies we have had are incredibly so.

Being able to afford it was my wife's justification. Needing to be more efficient would be my rebuttal. It takes 8 hours to clean the house, because 4 hours of that are spend on the iPad. I think I could clean the house in 3-4 hours, same as the cleaning service quoted.

She didn't think I was serious when I said to pay me. I'm dead serious, I'll take $40/hr...

[whydavid]

A few thoughts on this:

Even MMM pays to have his drywall work done...he just thinks those folks are far more efficient than he could ever be, so I don't think there are any hard and fast rules on this.

My wife and I enjoy working on house projects together, so we rarely pay folks (definitely not to do easy drywall work...MMM is such a wimp).  Whether or not I pay someone is usually not a convenience thing but rather a "what are the chances I can do this and have it look good/not ruin something expensive" thing.  I'm not an idealist, though, I do factor in how much something would suck or how much free time it would occupy -- that's just not the dominant factor.

I think the key is making sure you are getting a good dose of heavy lifting.  Working 70 hours a week at an office gig then coming home and doing some (well-deserved) lounging is a ticket to an early grave.  A little inconvenience in that scenario would be a good thing.  If you can get that activity by doing your own yard work or scrubbing the floors, why not do those things?

[r3dt4rget]

Reasons to outsource cleaning of a residence:

1. Lazy
2. Spoiled kids
3. Mansion

Don't be offended it's the truth.

From http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/12/30/are-you-cleaning-out-your-own-wallet/ 

By all means, keep things happily minimalist, decluttered, and organized – a simplified physical environment is good for the mind. You can also wash your hands with normal soap after a big day out and cook your food properly. But in your own home where no babies are delivered and no surgeries performed, you can safely let yourself off the hook when it comes to wiping, sterilizing, washing, drying, and polishing. You and I were made to live in a forest, and while even Mr. Money Mustache can appreciate a nice clean wood floor as an upgrade over soil and rocks, the earlier you draw the line, the further ahead you will be.

[asauer]

I think everyone has limits to how much they can do themselves. Here's what I outsource:
1. I pay extra to get my CSA delivered to my house ($7/week).  It's totally worth that to save the 40 minutes of driving.
2. I pay for my kids to go to day camp during breaks.  We probably could cobble together some sort of schedule where we wouldn't need to but, again, it's VERY worth the cost for my kids to be safe and have fun and not have anxiety over "what if something comes up in the schedule."

I'm not sure why people are slamming those who pay for house cleaners.  Nobody can do everything.  For those in a town, most don't take their own recycling or trash to the dump- that's outsourcing.  Are we being lazy?  I don't think so.  Most don't grow 100% of their own food, is that being lazy?  Again, I don't think so.  I think the US (and other western cultures) are different in the way we view hiring other's for services.  I lived for 3 years in Mexico and it was expected of families that were lower-middle class or higher to hire help for house work, child care, cooking and/or handyman type work.  They see it as using your wealth to give others opportunities to support their families.  Anyone who didn't employ someone for one of these services on some kind of regular basis were basically shunned and thought to be selfish and miserly.  I think it's interesting that this thread has largely presented the opposite view

[Valhalla]

Yes absolutely.  I can't be bothered to stop on the street and pick up money unless it's a $100 bill or more... :)

[JLee]

Heh this thread makes me want to price out a house cleaner...with three roommates, splitting it would likely result in minimal cost for us and a MUCH cleaner house. :P

[wearfannypacks]

Interior designer. For our apartment. She charged $200 to rearrange our furniture and hang up all our pictures in an afternoon. We had spent days just staring out our couch and having no idea where to put it. We though we'd have to buy a new one it was just too big.

She figured it out though. Our apartment looks awesome and flows much better. I'm happy when I walk in the door instead of feeling out of sorts.

I would do it again.

I feel the crux of outsourcing comes to do you want to discover a way to expend the energy yourself? Or would you rather pay someone to expend the energy for you? Sometime thier energy expenditure is much less (ie the interior designer figured out the design in an afternoon we couldn't come to in a month.)