Has anyone changed some of their friends since becoming frugal?

[Cassie]

In the 2 years since I quit working F.T. and concentrated on downsizing our life I was becoming more & more annoyed with some of our friends (not all of them).  Some of them were still seeking to expand their lifestyle even with being 10 years older then us thus taking on more debt, etc. These people are close to 70 & taking out big mortgages, etc.  Also some of our friends were criticizing our decision to take our pensions early, work p.t. for ourselves, downsize our home, etc.  I was actually getting messages at work left the nite before saying we needed to keep our bigger house, keep working, etc. Really bizarre!  Actually the friends that keep spending are really just a train waiting to wreck!  It is interesting though that after letting these friendships go away I made other friends that we are more compatible with and of course some of our long time friends we still remain close to. Just wondering if others have had this experience?

[MOD EDIT: All caps title changed to not scream at me.  /END EDIT.]

[Stache In Training]

Well I haven't hit FI yet, but I could definitely see this as a possibility.  But there are a few people whom I have decided to just "conveniently" stop hanging out with as much, as they were only good for a few drunk laughs, and horrible for my path to FI. 

[innerscorecard]

I can see the appeal of MMM gatherings in Ecuador or whatever. It must be very nice to be your true self or close to it with people who share your values. That's not the case usually. You want to hide a lot of what you are doing with FIRE or it will arouse both contempt and jealousy.

[greaper007]

I do find it difficult to hang out with a lot of people we know.   I've essentially put the kibosh on eating out or going out for drinks.   Yet, everyone I know wants to do those two things when we get together.   Once in a while I can tolerate it, but occasionally we'll get invited to a really expensive event that's hard to turn down, like a birthday dinner with only a few couples where it would be sort of rude not to show up.   

We had that happen a couple months ago.   For a 40th our friends got a limo and went to a really expensive downtown chain restaurant.   I think I would have been ok with it if they chose something new and hip (like a place I went to in Cleveland where I ate half a pigs head, that was worth the price) but it was just a boring, dark wood fish house.    So my wife and I strategized and shared half a dozen oysters and a cheeseburger and didn't order any alcohol.   We still walked out with a $50 bill.    The real kicker though was that the couple across from us ate mountains of food and had lots of drinks, they probably spent $200+.    And a year or so prior the wife was asking my wife for a job because her husband's income was so varied....

We also have friends that do things like pull out of their retirement accounts to remodel their homes and justify it by saying, "I don't need this money now, I can still work for another 30 years."    I just bite my lip.

But no, I haven't changed my friends as they're not bad people, they're just not on the same page with us.   As long as it doesn't get too expensive I just accept that we're going to meet them for the occasional micro-brew or dinner out.    Such is living in a middle-upper middle class suburb.

[fixer-upper]

You want to hide a lot of what you are doing with FIRE or it will arouse both contempt and jealousy.

There's also lawsuits, or other headaches.  Lawyers rarely go after people who barely have two nickels to rub together...but if your house is paid for and you have a healthy bank account, it pays to be cautious.

I do my best to look as poor as my neighbors and carry an obscene amount of liability insurance.

[innerscorecard]

Yup, information asymmetry is crucial for protecting yourself.

[hybrid]

No, but some of my friends have been making changes in a more frugal direction. Mustachian Buddy was the first to cut cable, now four of us have. I've noticed that more of my buddies pack lunch. Little things like that that add up.

My social circle was more likely to get together to play strategy board games  <--------------- or watch college basketball or play disc golf than go out for drinks, so the fact that I took a more frugal path wasn't a radical departure socially. 

[workathomedad]

I HAVE NO FRIENDS :'(

[warfreak2]

Awww, we're your friends!

[crumbcatcher]

I think I'm rather fortunate. I don't have many friends, but the people I'm closest to are fairly frugal. Not so frugal they won't say, "don't worry about that 10% coupon, it'll only save you $10 on a $100 faucet," but still pretty level-headed.

I think that my lifestyle would have an influence on any new people I become friends with though.

[matchewed]

I KEPT YELLING AT THEM AND THEY LEFT ME.

Seriously though, not really at this point. Most of my friends are in their mid 20's to mid 30's. They don't have money to spend. :P

All the older friends than that think I'm being smart for my financial choices and wish they had done the same.

[frugalnacho]

I some times wish I could change my family.  They have anti-mustaches.  They not only don't have a 'stache, but owe much of their future hair growth to various loans and other obligations who will be standing there the whole time just waiting to shave them smooth over and over.

As for friends, I have always been frugal and fairly mustachian, though admittedly made a lot of n00b blunders and succumbed to the social temptations before I new any better.  Of course I needed to buy a house, and after all a house is GOOD DEBT.  Blah, I wish I had MMM to guide me  and show me the way of the mustache, I would be in a lot better position at this point.  Hell maybe even be FIRE by this age (31).  But I've never been into the going out and needlessly spending money on shit like $60 dinners and $100 bar tabs, so those people were never really my friends, at least not in any setting like going out to a restaurant (though I still had friends via school, work, etc that were/are anti-mustachian).

[Sofa King]

No I haven't changed friends but it I have lost some respect for some friends who are spending their lives away and will never be able to stop working full time the rest of their lives.  Some their House Of Cards they have built will be crashing down hard if they lose their jobs or when they retire. It's just a matter of time and they are clueless. They don't think they can live any other way.

[ace1224]

no because what they do with their money doesn't affect me in any way shape or form.   if it did (they start asking for loans) we'd stop hanging out with them. 
we do lots of grilling out, and it doesn't bother me that i have an old char broil while our couple bff's have a top of the line bells and whistles one.  ribbing goes back and forth.  it also works out because i have friends that are maxed out cc wise and they want to "spend less" and stay in and cook and that works for us!
we are having people over for the NCAA stuff this weekend, its potluck and all the kids are gonna be in the bounce house out back.  (which i bought used off craigslist from a party place)

[Elaine]

No, I don't have a ton of friends. But the ones I do have are about 50/50 frugal/spendy. I enjoy having friends who are very different from me, I think it would get boring to only interact with people who have a similar worldview. For me the key friendship points are that I am intellectually compatible with the person, that they are nice, and that they are interesting & logical enough to debate things without becoming emotional. I've had wildly religious friends and atheist friends, gay and straight, party friends and straight edge, liberal and conservative- as long as they are open-minded I don't really care. I suppose I would have an issue if they become belligerent or tried to proselytize all the time, but that hasn't happened so far. I do hang out with my frugal friends more, just because I can afford to, spendy friend activities are sometimes out of my budget.

[Zikoris]

Baby steps here and there. I have one friend who always has her taxes done by a payday-loan-type place that charges her around $200 (very simple tax situation - just one regular job and a bit of tuition). I told her how easy the free tax programs are to use, and I think she switched to that.

[payitoff]

i have been wanting to air this out for a very long time, we and 2 other friends bought new cars recently, one gets paid really good, very smart with money, he's the only one working as wife stays home pregnant with 2 other small kids, they bought a year old, low miles fully loaded car. the other both are working and for sure makes way less than our other friend, but buys a 2014 fully loaded car on a lease to replace their old lease.  we got a 2004 93k miles to replace our gas guzzler, and we both work and slightly earns more than both.

the choices some people make. i used to judge people based on what car they drive, but now when i see someone driving an old basic car,  i smile quietly and imagine how much he must have in his bank.

[lexie2000]

We have a few very close friends who live in neighboring towns.  They are what we like to call low maintenance friendships.  We also have family nearby and socialize with them on almost all the major holidays.

Our neighborhood is like a revolving door for gardeners, pool guys, housekeepers, pet sitters, etc. so we decided to be friendly but not make friends. 

I am working on an outdoor rock project right now.  I work on it a couple of hours every morning in my stained gardening jeans and a t-shirt.  I'm sure the neighbors think I'm a whackadoo.

[oldtoyota]

I can see the appeal of MMM gatherings in Ecuador or whatever. It must be very nice to be your true self or close to it with people who share your values. That's not the case usually. You want to hide a lot of what you are doing with FIRE or it will arouse both contempt and jealousy.

Agreed. And I just read that keeping secrets is not good for your health. Every day, we're all walking around with this big secret.

[kkbmustang]

My closest friends are from college, save one from childhood. Friend A is totally a badass Mustachian, she just doesn't know who MMM is. Her hubby is frugal, too. Friends B and C married well, and are stay at home wives. Husband B comes from family money and all the strings that go with it. Husband C is self-made millionaire that came with an ex-wife and two kids.  So, there you go.

Most of the parents in my social circles are other parents at our kids' school (private). I don't consider them anything more than superficial friends and money is never discussed.

I'd kill to be in Ecuador surrounded by Mustachians but we aren't there. It'd be great, though, to be surrounded by like minded people.

[Squirrel away]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

[lexie2000]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

In our early years we went it alone, and I mean really alone, because there were no such things as money forums and early retirement forums.

[Catbert]

I think most of us gain and lose friends over the years due to a variety of life changes.  Married folks drift away from many of their single friends.  Child-free people have different interests than many  families with young children.  Retired folks have different schedules and free time than those still working.   And if you're frugal then your interest in expensive hobbies, trendy restaurants and shopping wanes. 

That doesn't mean that every life change means you lose ALL your friends, but some turnover is to be expected. 

[Squirrel away]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

In our early years we went it alone, and I mean really alone, because there were no such things as money forums and early retirement forums.

True, that must have been difficult as the internet has been such a helpful resource.

[Albert]

Not really, my friends more wasteful lifestyles are not an impediment to our friendship. Most of them are well off anyway and none of them have ever asked me for financial help. Plus I don't have all that many friends, partly because I have moved too often...

[steveo]

Well I haven't hit FI yet, but I could definitely see this as a possibility.  But there are a few people whom I have decided to just "conveniently" stop hanging out with as much, as they were only good for a few drunk laughs, and horrible for my path to FI.

I have one friend who is exactly like this. I haven't seen him much in years (prior to working towards FI) simply because I couldn't justify going out drinking and spending money excessively.

[phred]

New friends?  Oh, absolutely.  Since becoming more frugal I added some new friends who take great pleasure in grabbing the check at the restaurant.  Win-win all the way around.

[Nyarlathotep]

 It feels good to be able to spread the knowledge to others and see them question the whole idea of being in debt being the norm. I think I have personally planted the seeds in some of my close friends as well as my subordinates. It feels especially good to pass along the information to my juniors and to see them starting to build a stash early in their career and at their younger age.

[Daisy]

Recently, a friend of mine that lives really close by had a baby. Another friend of ours called me and suggested getting together for brunch and did I know of a good place close by where we could go to brunch.

I find breakfast/brunch to be the most un-satisfying meal to eat out because it is so easy to make at home and is so ridiculously overpriced at restaurants. How hard can it be to scramble up some eggs, make some French toast, slice up some fruit for a fruit salad, etc.?

So I said that I know the perfect place...my house! These are people that always go out to eat. She agreed. Everyone came over and brought something as well. We were able to enjoy a relaxed meal and they spent the whole afternoon there...something that could not have been done at a restaurant.

This other friend liked it so much she planned the next brunch date as everyone was leaving. She hosted the next brunch a few months later.

[payitoff]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

This! 

so hard to not be able to discuss this with someone in person. my husband is a late bloomer, he's slowly getting it but i dont want to scare him away so im only sharing to him the tip of the iceberg, he gets the idea but he doesnt know the degree of my plans for us. 

he is getting there. after the lease of our other car, he now wants to buy a car in cash, if going to be an aggessive saving in the next few months but he doesnt want to finance anything anymore. im excited for this.

[Storapa]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

Hey Londoner,

I know how you feel. I was going mad, but luckily found a buddy at work, more or less doing the same thing.  It's been great to have somebody to talk to about these ideas. 

[Thegoblinchief]

There are fairly few people with whom I'm compatible, and my social needs are pretty low because I'm very introverted. Generally, if I click with someone, we'll work things out. But of the friends I've made, the frugality thing hasn't been a problem. I found the shift in my political worldview to present bigger problems for making friends than my financial habits ever have.

+1

Quite awkward with the few friends and family I have here.

Very few friends locally. Most of the people I'm close with we met through college, but we're scattered all over, so I tend to see them at most every few years.

[Squirrel away]

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

Hey Londoner,

I know how you feel. I was going mad, but luckily found a buddy at work, more or less doing the same thing.  It's been great to have somebody to talk to about these ideas. 

Lucky you. :)

I wish I had even one person in real life to discuss any of this with. The majority of people I know are very working class and I don't know anyone who is thinking of investing their money or even saving any money. The more middle class people I know are just paying off student loans and freaking out because the amount they have to pay in rent.

This! 

so hard to not be able to discuss this with someone in person. my husband is a late bloomer, he's slowly getting it but i dont want to scare him away so im only sharing to him the tip of the iceberg, he gets the idea but he doesnt know the degree of my plans for us. 

he is getting there. after the lease of our other car, he now wants to buy a car in cash, if going to be an aggessive saving in the next few months but he doesnt want to finance anything anymore. im excited for this.

I'm glad I'm not the only one, sounds like your husband is coming around to the idea. :)

[Hadilly]

One of my friends, a single mother with kids, paid off her debts and is now working on an emergency fund. SO happy for her!

A neighbor has embraced mustachianism and we discuss it all the time, trade childcare, and support each other's frugality.

A third friend is into it but making small changes slowly. Her husband hasn't bought in in any way.

On the other end of the spectrum, another friend just ordered a Porsche Cayman.

[soccerluvof4]

I don't know if its sad or just the way it is but we don't have what i would consider a lot of friends. We have alot of people that want us to do things and we do but we are usually watching them or I am at least. I have gotten to the point that while i listen to people always justifying why they are getting or doing what there doing I am thinking that's exactly why you wont have anything. I dont want any debt but everyone i know seems comfortable with it.   I am good at biting my lip but I also dont think people can figure me out either. I do get asked a lot of questions and my opinions though. Were so busy with our kids i really dont care and like i said I get plenty of social activity. I am sure I have moved away from some over the years.

[Big Boots Buddha]

I've always been frugal, mainly because my family is embarassingly poor. But recently I've started to make some money, but I dont spend any of it and it rubs people the wrong way I think a bit. So maybe its the reverse problem, people dont want to be around a frugal friend.

Some examples would be: my friends just moved, with no job, bought a new car with bad gas mileage, got new cell phone plans, etc and I told them about MMM, with the cellphone link and the good cars link with some rationale. I haven't heard back from them. Such is life~

[dude]

Nah.  I've actually gotten a few friends on board with the idea of FIRE, and so after say, rock climbing for a day, rather then retire to a local watering hole for beers, we now just bring a cooler and sit on the tailgate.  Much more personal, and outdoors.

I have been "preaching" the virtues of saving and investing in our employers' 401k to fellow employees and educating them on the basics of compound interest, Mustachian investing principles, SWRs and the like, and many have been thanking me for it.  Though I had to smile when my big boss said, only half-jokingly, to a co-worker, "You're going to listen to him about finances?  Have you seen the car he drives?"*  Yep, keep talking that kinda smack big boss and see who comes out ahead in the long run!

* and ferchrissakes, it's not like my car is a beater!  it's a 2008 Subaru in excellent condition!  But I guess because it's not all shiny and new, it doesn't conspicuously display my net worth -- LOL!

[Squirrel away]

I have been "preaching" the virtues of saving and investing in our employers' 401k to fellow employees and educating them on the basics of compound interest, Mustachian investing principles, SWRs and the like, and many have been thanking me for it.  Though I had to smile when my big boss said, only half-jokingly, to a co-worker, "You're going to listen to him about finances?  Have you seen the car he drives?"*  Yep, keep talking that kinda smack big boss and see who comes out ahead in the long run!

I would love to see the look on his face when you leave work, haha, that will be satisfying!

[tmac]

* and ferchrissakes, it's not like my car is a beater!  it's a 2008 Subaru in excellent condition!  But I guess because it's not all shiny and new, it doesn't conspicuously display my net worth -- LOL!

I hate that. Not only completely misguided, but just mean-spirited.

A couple of years ago, I offered to drive my boss to a client meeting in my "fancy new car" -- which was fancy and new to me, a two-year-old Prius. It was the nicest car I'd ever owned. He literally laughed at me. "Fancy? That?" Then he pointed at his car and said, "Now THAT's a fancy car!" It was a brand-new Hummer. Not an H2 or H3. A full-on Hummer, just off the lot.

What an ass he was. I quit not long after that. I read two weeks ago that the business had failed. Not shocked.

[ketchup]

* and ferchrissakes, it's not like my car is a beater!  it's a 2008 Subaru in excellent condition!  But I guess because it's not all shiny and new, it doesn't conspicuously display my net worth -- LOL!

I hate that. Not only completely misguided, but just mean-spirited.

A couple of years ago, I offered to drive my boss to a client meeting in my "fancy new car" -- which was fancy and new to me, a two-year-old Prius. It was the nicest car I'd ever owned. He literally laughed at me. "Fancy? That?" Then he pointed at his car and said, "Now THAT's a fancy car!" It was a brand-new Hummer. Not an H2 or H3. A full-on Hummer, just off the lot.

What an ass he was. I quit not long after that. I read two weeks ago that the business had failed. Not shocked.

Jeez!  That's awful.  I feel like a god of luxury in my 18-year-old Volvo with its fancy heated seats and 6-disc CD changer.  I'm sure a 2008 Subaru or Prius is even more fancy.  I do not understand some people.

[hybrid]

Wow, some of these responses are quite sad. The opposite seems to be happening in Richmond. We have formed a knot of Mustachians who make it a point to get together now and then. Mustachian Buddy and I have been friends for 24 years so that link was easy. I found this website, introduced it to him, and he was on board (as he was already on board in many ways). He recently had a pot luck at his place for several of the Mustachians in the area. I met a new Mustachian Buddy through this forum who also works downtown, and she takes it upon herself to organize a Mustachian lunch about once a month. First Mustachian Buddy and I have a mutual friend of many years who has also become more frugal, I introduced him to MMM. I'm planning another Mustachian cookout in the coming weeks like we had last year.

Is there something different in the water in Richmond? No. I think it has to do with the fact that myself, original Mustachian Buddy, and new Mustachian Buddy are all strongly extroverted. Each of us have worked in our own ways to create a new social circle.

I've seen this more than once. Extroverts want to create and be a part of social circles because we thrive being around people.

 

[katie]

Yes.

I remember one gal in particular I had to part ways with as a friend.  She wanted to be frugal, but her husband was as opposite of frugal as they come.  When they  moved to ID, they bought a $500,000, 3500 SF house because the "price/SF was good".  It was just the two of them with zero plans for kids.  Husband "had" to have a new car every two years.  He also pulled money from his meager 401k to buy a new snowmobile without telling her.  Things like that.  Then, her position was being eliminated, so she took a job 5 hours away.  She "couldn't find a house to rent with 3 dogs" so they bought a house being built to the tune of $225,000.  I had long had enough before this point....there situation stressed me out!  They make close to $100k each, but lived well beyond what they could afford.

And they are both engineers. :)

[Cassie]

That kind of stuff stresses me out too. It is a house of cards waiting to fall & there is no way to be sympathetic when it does so better to part ways. 

[Fonzico]

I feel you on this one. We have a close group of 3 other couples whom we spend quite a bit of time with. For the most part, it's not an issue - we like to get together for board games, and spend a lot of time at the park together in the summer.

However, one of the couples - or more so, the female half of one of the couples - does her best to get us all spending money, and it's driving me batty! She's the only one in the entire group who likes to go out to the bars (she's also the youngest, which may have something to do with it), and just recently she decided she wanted to spend her birthday "in the city", and organized an overnight trip, involving recreational shopping, a ticketed event, dinner out, plenty of drinks and a hotel. Now, I know we could have just not gone. In fact, I turn her down frequently for this type of thing. We did go for this trip, and tried to keep our expenses as low as possible (we carpooled with another couple, got a deeply discounted hotel room, didn't drink alcohol and kept miscellaneous spending to a minimum) and that's on me.

But it bothers me that she thinks this sort of thing is necessary on a regular basis, and she gets quite offended when she's turned down. I've tried to suggest alternate activities as much as possible, which helps a little but quite frankly if it wasn't for the rest of the "group", I wouldn't be friends with her at all.

And, of course, this is the couple on one income, with a fancy new SUV, who just bought the most house they could get financed with 5% down. They DO NOT HAVE the money to do this shit. I've been getting out of stuff lately by saying we're saving for a down payment of our own (which is true, but I insist on having 20%). But I really don't know what the long term solution for this is.

[Cassie]

Since there are more couples involved that is a tough one.  We were in a similar situation for many years (3 couples) did things together, etc.  We ended up not being friends with one couple but still saw the other. Then the other kept inviting all of us for dinner even though they knew the situation. We went once & it was uncomfortable then we started to say no.  Finally we realized we had not enjoyed the other couple's friendship in a number of years so just let it die.  Usually I keep friends forever but I am finally starting to get better at letting people go once the friendship no longer works.  However, it does not appear that you are at that point.  I would just keep declining unless you really want to go.

[Squirrel away]

That kind of stuff stresses me out too. It is a house of cards waiting to fall & there is no way to be sympathetic when it does so better to part ways.

It is a weird feeling to be the odd one out. I was talking to someone who is 56 years old now and she has credit card debt, a mortgage (bigger than mine at 38 years old) and no pension. She should be in a total panic!

[Cassie]

That does not sound good at all. One of the things that I have learned is that when something goes-something new comes along to replace it. Since ending a few of our friendships we have become friends with other people that we are now more compatible with.  Of course we still have many long time friends that we still enjoy.

[Briansmama]

I've actually made more of an effort to get closer to a neighbor who is my age and has a minimalist style and outlook on life, despite having a husband with a very high paying career. She doesn't wear makeup, get her hair done, drive a fancy car, or spend $$ frivolously. She shows up to ladies' wine nights wearing clothes that are probably at least 10 years old and old Birkenstocks. I totally admire her.

[hybrid]

That kind of stuff stresses me out too. It is a house of cards waiting to fall & there is no way to be sympathetic when it does so better to part ways.

It is a weird feeling to be the odd one out. I was talking to someone who is 56 years old now and she has credit card debt, a mortgage (bigger than mine at 38 years old) and no pension. She should be in a total panic!

I have a few friends on the outer rings of my social circle that are either in bad financial shape or are caught up in the consumer culture. They all know the changes I've made over the past year so the point isn't lost on them that people can take a different direction. The thing is, we were already in decent shape compared to the Average Joe before finding the MMM site, MMM just kicked us from 3rd to 5th gear. These folks have been in neutral or reverse for a long time. So yeah, we don't discuss finances or future planning as much as I do with others and now there are areas where we just don't relate. We're all 50ish, and these folks will be working until they are 70 (or later) if they don't change their ways. Which means I will have less in common with them from a lifestyle perspective as the years drag on. Will that change the friendship dynamic? In some ways, I cannot help but feel the answer will be yes. In some other ways it shouldn't matter, one of these guys is a friend from high school I've known for over 30 years, we'll always have common interests even if our lifestyles are very different 10 years from now.

[SwordGuy]

Not really, but mostly because I never really liked hanging out with folks who got drunk all the time or only thought about shopping.    I guess I self-selected (and vice-versa) out of that set of friends to begin with.