Great Job vs. Lucrative Job

[sloof70]

Hey guys.  I'm not the greatest at being frugal, but I'm down to spending around 40-45% of my gross income on typical monthly stuff (not counting emergencies or big purchases).  So I'm thinking of dabbling in the income-increasing side of wealth accumulation, but I'm not sure it's a great deal.

Currently, I'm making $50k at a very laid-back employer.  It's a relaxed office where I can stroll in late, wear jeans and a t-shirt, bring my dog (if I had one), and at least once a week me and the boss will go kill an entire afternoon at the nearby brewpub, talking about "work".  I have great benefits, including 4 weeks of vacation, and I've been working here a while and know my shit well enough to never be stressed.  It's small enough where everyone knows everyone and people actually care about each other.  It's in a quiet suburb and I have a reverse commute, so no traffic and no parking fees.

The flipside is my opportunity.  My current work most obviously leads me to a career at the downtown corporate office of a large online retailer we all shop from (named after a rain forest), which has many positions I am currently qualified for.  At such a job, I could probably double my current income with ease, and triple it after a few years.  But this job would slash my vacation time in half, force me to consistently work full days and probably have long days more frequently than anyone would like.  It would double my commute till my lease is up.  It is one of the more stressful employers in the area, whereas my current job hovers around zero on the stressometer.

So what I have is a flexible job with great benefits and an average wage, versus a stressful, high-paying job.  Making $100k here is not impossible, but I would need about another decade of experience under my belt.  But how much is low stress, time off, a relaxed environment and an awesome boss worth?  I'm 25 and this is really the only "real" job I've worked, so I have no idea how to put a price on such flexibility.

[Sunflower]

Hi sloof!

I completely understand....it's such a hard choice!! I'm 26 and just accepted the high paying, high stress job. My new income will actually be 4x what I'm making at the moment which sounds completely crazy to me (I'm making less than you currently). But I stressed endlessly for the month before accepting the offer because of the benefit/drawbacks that you are thinking about.

In the end, I decided to take the job for a few reasons: I'm young and I've always been ambitious. I'm not sure I'll love the new job but maybe I will! Also, if I realize I made a mistake and want out, I will have a much bigger cushion of FU-money stockpiled to get me through a job search for a lower stress job. On the flip side, it's not like I could call up this employer in 6 months and say 'JK! I want that job offer back! I'm bored!" Maybe I'm kidding myself to think that in a few years I'll be able to step back and take a huge pay cut. But even if I only take this job for 2 years, I'll have a big name company on my resume that is known for hiring only the best people, I'll have a larger nest-egg earlier on in life, and I'll be able to tell stories in my old age about the time I took that leap and pushed myself to try something new even if it wasn't something I wanted to do for the rest of my life.

I'll let you know in a few months if it was the biggest mistake I've ever made. ;-)

[willn]

Some thoughts.

I don't hear a lot of passion or love for what you do coming through.  So rather than switch out the whole shebang maybe use the extra flexibility and low pressure to pursue a side hustle doing something you love and see if it can turn up extra $$.

Another factor to consider is that once you've had a high paying job for a while, you've set the bar higher for yourself, and future employers--they will see you as more valuable, simply because you've been paid more in the past, and that can lead you to get better offers.

Change could be hard.  Could hurt.  But getting hurt, stumbling, and getting back up make you stronger and smarter.  A failure now at 25 gives you resilience at 35.  Sitting in a comfortable gig now could be making you soft.

[matchewed]

It depends. Do you want to be Financially Independent? If so do you want it so bad that you'll put up with the "rain forest" company? If you answered no to your second question stay at your current job.

If you said no to the first question then what is your motivation for work? What keeps you coming in each morning? Then apply that to the "rain forest" company.

Good luck with your awesome opportunities.

[Insanity]

This is a very personal decision but I will say this:

No amount of money will replace happiness.  If you think the challenge of the rainforest is something that piques your interest then it needs to be considered. 

The vacation, flexibility, and work load where you are at gives you an opportunity to investigate creating your own challenges on the side which could be more lucrative than the rainforest.

I wish you luck.

[Frankies Girl]

Obviously this is just my opinion, so YMMV...

I'd take the low-stress job I loved that had great benefits over high stress with lots more money any day.

Things to ask yourself:

Do you really enjoy what you do?

Do you think you'll still enjoy it 10 years from now?

Do you see opportunities to advance if you want to take them in the current job? New stuff to learn, "climbing the ladder" type of promotions and decent raises and the like?

Just how ambitious are you? Do you like high energy (high stress) environments, or do you generally prefer low key?

Do you have a driving need for lots more money right now?

It sounds like you have a pretty sweet deal right now. More money doesn't wipe out the bad things about the other job opportunity - it amplifies it. You'd be trading away practically everything positive for money. That is NOT a good trade.

If you're currently saving at the rate of 40-50% of your gross pay, then you're already doing great, and that means as the raises come and you get a bit more frugal, you'll be living on the same or less over the years, (try to avoid lifestyle creep) and increasing your savings rate even more than you thought possible (especially if you're a valued employee - you can ask for higher raises if you're important to the company). The biggie is that you are already used to living on around half your salary. As long as you keep that up, you'll be FI in record time, and still able to work at a place that you enjoy.

It is RARE to have such a great deal - love your boss, love your coworkers, relaxed environment, great benefits, decent pay with opportunities for growth and super commute schedule. Don't let the promise of more money lure you away unless the money is what is most important to you.

But then I currently work in a high stress job, so take that with a grain of salt. ;)

[Eric]

Think how much vacation time you'll have once you're retired!

But really, this is a math problem*.  How much you can save now vs. how much you could save with the new job.  When will you be FI with your current job?  When would you be FI with the new job?  Is the time difference to FI worth busting your ass in a job you may not like as much? 

(also, if you decide to move on, can I have your old job?)


*as an accountant, I think everything is a math problem

[sloof70]

You hooligans!  I wanted you all to agree on one course of action!  It appears there is no clear answer.  Staying means being able to enjoy work and not fret over it, keeping it as but one element in an otherwise rich, full life.  Leaving means personal challenge and gain, in order to grow my financial and career muscles, putting me on a quicker track to FI.  Thoughts so far are pretty much split even.  However, I am sensing personal experience trends toward flexibility is better than money.

I will say this.  My main goal is to not work.  I don't mind work, but I also kind of hate it.  That's why I max my SIMPLE and Roth IRA's, and that should get me to FI in 15 years.  If I double my income and double my contributions, I'm still looking at probably around 7-10 years.  Do I want 15 years of living and enjoying life and work, or spend half to two-thirds that time being really stressed?  I don't know!

Chemistay, I want an update in a few months, since you have just undergone this.

[Dee18]

I left a more stressful, more hours job that I really enjoyed for a less stressful, much more flexible job.  Pay was comparable at both.  I really missed my first job- it was exciting (even after 7 years) And the people I worked with were the best in our field. It was my first long term job and I just thought I would like another job as well.  Think  hard about whether you like your job overall.  If so, I say keep it.

[gooki]

Apply for a job at the rainforest. Get an offer, and go talk with your current boss about your salary.

[AccidentalMiser]

  My main goal is to not work.

Then take the higher paying gig till you're 33-35, save 50-70% of you income, and be done with the whole deal.

Wish I'd have done that twenty years ago when I was 25.

I also agree with gooki, you could ask your current employer to give you a raise and see where that goes.

[Insanity]

  My main goal is to not work.

Then take the higher paying gig till you're 33-35, save 50-70% of you income, and be done with the whole deal.

Wish I'd have done that twenty years ago when I was 25.

I also agree with gooki, you could ask your current employer to give you a raise and see where that goes.

The last option is definitely a good one..

But, you might be able to retire quicker if you do your own thing on the side given the vacation and the flex time...  Just a thought.

[Herbert Derp]

Make the choice you would regret most if you didn't make it. That's all I can say.

[oldtoyota]

I am happy you are asking this question, because I have a somewhat similar situation.

The accountant up above raises a point I'd also been thinking about. I will think about this with the heart, but I also plan to run numbers and think about it with my head. Will the extra $$ in a new position really help me FI earlier? If so, how much earlier? Is the amount of time saved worth additional stress--and possibly working with crazy people?

I would take the advice above to ask current rainforest workers about the company before you go there.

[bdub]

I left a more stressful, more hours job that I really enjoyed for a less stressful, much more flexible job.  Pay was comparable at both.  I really missed my first job- it was exciting (even after 7 years) And the people I worked with were the best in our field. It was my first long term job and I just thought I would like another job as well.  Think  hard about whether you like your job overall.  If so, I say keep it.

I recently did the near opposite of this:  I had the opportunity to leave my more stressful / more hour jobs for a lower stress / hours job with similar pay (although my current employer gave me some pretty impressive incentive pay options if I, and the company, perform well over the next 5 years).  I actually stayed in the more stressful / more hour jobs; I just didn't feel the new job would be challenging enough and I got a vibe from the new employer that was a little too laid back.  As much as I think I wanted to have a 8-5 job with no stress, I realized that I like the challenge (and frustration of my current job).  Also, my current job is WAY more exciting and diverse and, most of all, I work with a bunch of hard-working, ass kicking people.

I have only regretted my decision about 20% of the time :-)

[sloof70]

Apply for a job at the rainforest. Get an offer, and go talk with your current boss about your salary.

I can't exactly do this now, because of two reason.  First is because I did this exact thing about a year and a half ago with a different company to get more pay and benefits.  Secondly, not a chance in hell they will match a salary that's near double or more.  I like these guys and I feel that might be insulting.

Make the choice you would regret most if you didn't make it. That's all I can say.

This quote is really sticking with me.  This is what's pushing me to leave.  I don't want to look back with regret.

[limeandpepper]

Your current arrangement sounds pretty sweet, and the new potential career sounds like it could be hellish in comparison. I think it really depends on your personality, and what you value. Some people cope alright with stress and long hours and see it as a decent trade-off for more money. Others prefer to have a more balanced life even if it means having less money. I like what a few people have suggested - stay put and develop a side gig (preferably an enjoyable one) to bring in extra money.

[sloof70]

I like what a few people have suggested - stay put and develop a side gig (preferably an enjoyable one) to bring in extra money.

My marketable skills (sales operations) are not conducive to a side gig.  More of a cog in a much greater machine.  Someone might be able to turn them into one, but that person is more skilled and tenacious than I.  I'd rather focus on what I do and let other people figure out the rest of running the business.

[Numbers Man]

While it might be nice to coast on $50k at the age of 25, you better be pretty damn sure that your current employer or job is really secure for the foreseeable future. The problem you'll have on getting another job in let's say 5 years from now is that your skills are stagnant. At your age you need to keep learning. Financial Independence can be a slippery slope when such things as a wife and/or kids enter the picture.

It might be okay to stay put where you are now, but keep your eyes open for a better opportunity. Don't even think about working for a sweatshop.

[j90]

I would cling to the "relaxed" job as if your life depended on it. I have gone from that type of job to a more intense one in the past, and I was miserable.

It's not that I want to slack off every day, but that I don't the stress of a job to always be on my mind. I'm the type of person that can't relax after work if I am being pressured to accomplish the impossible (and unnecessary!) every day at work.

[Rural]

You've got to decide where your own values lie. Why are you working in the first place? What would you do with more money? If you're going for ERE, how badly do you want to retire super early?

Personally, no way would I consider the high-stress job, but I've done some of that, so I know for a fact that I hate it (and that I don't have to do it). You don't have to, either. The real question is whether you want to.

[Khan]

I would cling to the "relaxed" job as if your life depended on it. I have gone from that type of job to a more intense one in the past, and I was miserable.

It's not that I want to slack off every day, but that I don't the stress of a job to always be on my mind. I'm the type of person that can't relax after work if I am being pressured to accomplish the impossible (and unnecessary!) every day at work.

I feel the opposite of this, as great as your job is, no job is guarenteed, and your employer would cut you in an instant if they had to... or in a lot of employers cases, they'd cut you just to raise the bottom line. Maybe you feel different about your employer then that sloof, but that's my thoughts. Companies are heartless, so respond by being heartless when dealing with them.

[StarswirlTheMustached]

Currently, I'm making $50k at a very laid-back employer.  It's a relaxed office where I can stroll in late, wear jeans and a t-shirt, bring my dog (if I had one), and at least once a week me and the boss will go kill an entire afternoon at the nearby brewpub, talking about "work".  I have great benefits, including 4 weeks of vacation, and I've been working here a while and know my shit well enough to never be stressed.  It's small enough where everyone knows everyone and people actually care about each other.  It's in a quiet suburb and I have a reverse commute, so no traffic and no parking fees.

This is the sort of job I would kill for. But I've been in grad school which is high-stress and low pay, suffer from anxiety, etc. YMMV.

In spite of "companies are heartless" above, I figure your laid-back friendly office will be a lot more hesitant to lay you off than the rainforest company (which doesn't have much of a reputation for employee loyalty)-- and even a short stretch of unemployment can set you back a ways from your FI goals.

[limeandpepper]

Besides, the "companies are heartless" thing is kind of besides the point, anyway. No one is saying the OP should stay in the job out of loyalty; merely suggesting that staying might be a pretty nice choice because the work culture is so cruisy and relaxed and awesome. In the meantime, if there is the opportunity to jump ship to another job which pays much better while still providing decent work-life balance, then of course that should be considered. The "rainforest" one doesn't sound that appealing to me, but if someone believes that the money is worth it, then that's also something to consider, of course.

[sloof70]

In spite of "companies are heartless" above, I figure your laid-back friendly office will be a lot more hesitant to lay you off than the rainforest company (which doesn't have much of a reputation for employee loyalty)-- and even a short stretch of unemployment can set you back a ways from your FI goals.

Yes, my company is just as loyal to their employees as they expect their employees to be to them.  People don't get fired here for poor performance or redundancy, but only if they do something truly heinous.  It helps that I have family working here and I am good friends with one of the VPs.  And the guys that own the company are so used to older people that they consider me their golden child.

[Forcus]

In spite of "companies are heartless" above, I figure your laid-back friendly office will be a lot more hesitant to lay you off than the rainforest company (which doesn't have much of a reputation for employee loyalty)-- and even a short stretch of unemployment can set you back a ways from your FI goals.

Yes, my company is just as loyal to their employees as they expect their employees to be to them.  People don't get fired here for poor performance or redundancy, but only if they do something truly heinous.  It helps that I have family working here and I am good friends with one of the VPs.  And the guys that own the company are so used to older people that they consider me their golden child.

Is there ANY chance you could talk with your current employer and leave an open door to come back if the rainforest doesn't work out? If you had a backup plan you were confident in it might make the rainforest easier.

Or, could you work part time for your current employer while working full time for the rainforest? With the same thought as the above?

I do want to note one thing - it doesn't sound like you are especially challenged at your current job. Your description makes it sound like a dream but to be honest being given a long leash might lead to boredom for some people. Not knowing what type of person you are, don't know if this is an issue or not.

[sloof70]

Is there ANY chance you could talk with your current employer and leave an open door to come back if the rainforest doesn't work out? If you had a backup plan you were confident in it might make the rainforest easier.

Probably, but I certainly don't want to bank on that.

Or, could you work part time for your current employer while working full time for the rainforest? With the same thought as the above?

The point of this new job possibility would be that I'd have to work more.  Meaning even less time for leisure, hobbies and side gigs.

I do want to note one thing - it doesn't sound like you are especially challenged at your current job. Your description makes it sound like a dream but to be honest being given a long leash might lead to boredom for some people. Not knowing what type of person you are, don't know if this is an issue or not.

I am not challenged in the least.  And I don't want to get soft.  But I don't want to swing from this to stress, anxiety and limited free time only for money.  I also have no idea what job is in the middle.  I know it's out there, but I haven't found it.


With all the advice and experiences said here, I'm starting to realize how great my job is, how soft I'll get if I do nothing else, and how beneficial a side business could be.

[Inevitable]

I work in a job similar to yours (not quite as relaxed as yours :D), and it's easy to forget how crappy other jobs are.  Most of the time bosses are a-holes and your coworkers suck, but that's not the case for you and me.  The people saying that you will lose your skills seem to forget that you're capable of keeping your skills up on your own.  I'm also pretty safe from losing my job here, which is a huge bonus to me.  What's the point in making $100k if I'm constantly worried about being fired?

My brother works for a big corporation.  He makes double what I make.  Last Christmas he spent half the day working while I was hanging out with our family.  Just something to think about.

Good luck with your decision.

[MrsPete]

Tough question.  I think we've all faced similar situations at one point or another, and I can tell you that I myself have chosen both sides . . .

When I was in college, completely responsible for myself, no safety net whatsoever from my parents . . . I chose the lucrative job.  Okay, it wasn't really as lucrative as the one you describe, but it paid well for me at that point in my life.  But it meant working 2nd shift, in a physically demanding job, and a 30-minute drive in a car that wasn't really up-to-par.  But at that point in my life, I needed the money badly, so I did it.  Incidentally, I hated it. 

Later in my life I had to choose between continuing in the business world, or moving into teaching.  By that point I was married to a man who was bringing in a good paycheck, so I wasn't 100% responsible for myself.  And we wanted to start a family.  Don't get me wrong:  Teaching isn't an easy, stress-free job, but the hours are better for a mom.  My husband and I have never been sorry that I became a teacher.  The hours have made it easier for me to "be there" for the children, and that has allowed him not to miss work for their doctor appointments, their summer care, etc.  It's been a good choice for our family, even though I have definitely sacrificed the better paycheck.

Which one's right for you? 
Too many variables to figure.

[JellyBean]

I would say go for it. Who knows what other opportunities can arise through the new position. Even having that on your resume may be a good thing to step into a more balanced job. If you had a large debt load then everyone would say do whatever you can to attack it. If your goal is to not work and be FI then treat it as a debt to yourself. It's better to try this type of jump now while you are still young than when you have a mortgage and family.

[sloof70]

I spent this weekend with a buddy that recently got a high-pay/high-stress job.  He's my age and now makes just over $100k now working at a major software company (80% chance you're using it now, to keep with my mysterious theme).  He went from half the money and a normal work day, but works 10-12 hour days, many weekends, is constantly stressed and can be called into work or to travel on very little notice.  He can also take no more than a week of vacation at a time.  He make make double, but his hourly rate is not too far from mine (and I get to have a social life!).

You've all given great advice.  I think my best route is to consider some new challenges at my current employer that I had been denying.  And, of course, keep my ear to the ground for a similar job that pays more.  I know that I value my sanity and spare time a lot more than money.

[Forcus]

That sounds like a good plan. I'll be honest, every move I've made to get where I am has been due to unconventional circumstances. By working at a lower paying job but volunteering for more experience you might find yourself in a better position even than had you gone to the other company. I did a similar thing when our company was offering buyouts and I knew several people were going to take them. I volunteered to add their work to mine (I figured I would get at least some of their stuff anyways, so why not be in the position of power). That helped immensely in securing the next position.

[Daleth]

I spent this weekend with a buddy that recently got a high-pay/high-stress job.  He's my age and now makes just over $100k now working at a major software company (80% chance you're using it now, to keep with my mysterious theme).  He went from half the money and a normal work day, but works 10-12 hour days, many weekends, is constantly stressed and can be called into work or to travel on very little notice.  He can also take no more than a week of vacation at a time.  He make make double, but his hourly rate is not too far from mine (and I get to have a social life!).

You've all given great advice.  I think my best route is to consider some new challenges at my current employer that I had been denying.  And, of course, keep my ear to the ground for a similar job that pays more.  I know that I value my sanity and spare time a lot more than money.

Wise move. And don't forget about the "developing a side gig" option. With the job you have now, you have the time and energy (due to no stress) to do it.

[Sunflower]

Wise move. And don't forget about the "developing a side gig" option. With the job you have now, you have the time and energy (due to no stress) to do it.

This has been suggested so many times in this thread but I don't quite understand the logic.....side gigs take time and effort to produce money. Personally, I'd rather have fewer hours of 'free time' to do my own thing (in my case cooking, music, and trying to get back into some sports) than spend those hours trying to monetize any other aspect of my life. I admit I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle because 1. I'm about to start a 60+ hr/week job; 2. I'm currently working way more hours than that for less than 30k/year as a grad student; and 3. I thrive in a structured environment and starting a side gig sounds like the opposite of structure. That being said, at the end of the day I'd rather increase my salary by 100% while only increasing my working hours by 50% (assuming you're already working 40hr/week at 50k/year) than using my free time and energy on a new venture that's supposed to make money in addition to being enjoyable.

[MakingSenseofCents]

This sounds like a hard decision. I would go for the job that allows me to be as least stressed and allows me to enjoy life.

[ch12]

I know that we're all different, but I thought that I'd offer my opinion.

If I were in your situation, then I'd go for the cruisy, low-stress job and run a side business on the side. I know that you say that you need to be working for a corporation to correctly utilize your skill set, but how big does that corporation have to be? I think that you can get your feet wet and see what the market rate would be for someone with your skills. Granted, you might be able to make $100k in the "rainforest", but you wouldn't have time to consult in your off hours and from what I've heard the employees are quite stressed out. At $50k where about an afternoon a week you go and grab beer, you have the time and energy to maybe see what people will pay for your expertise without committing to a full-time job.

People have also made the stability argument, and I would say the same. If you diversify your streams of income, that's going to have a better outcome for you. It would also push you a little faster towards FI.

HOWEVER, I know that you said that you wanted to work as few years as possible. Then, you would go work for the rainforest people and bite the bullet and use some of your extra money to pay for hypertension treatment/meds. You can't buy health or happiness, and the rainforest company would drain some of that from you. I think that the real question is, given that you want to minimize your working years, how much the stress in the rainforest would get to you. If it would minimally impact you, then fine. But if you are prone to panic attacks (like someone in Ontario whose thread I just read in the MMM forums), then probably you should stick where you are.

If you're looking for a "challenge," you can make one yourself instead of expecting the rainforest company to provide one for you. It could be SSDD.

[nktokyo]

2 years in a high-stress, high-level environment can be great for levelling up. You'll probably learn more and increase your value more there than in 10 years kicking back where you are.

[MoneyLifeandMore]

I have worked some pretty stressful jobs and am luckily now in a pretty low stress job. I could make more elsewhere, but I make plenty where I am at now much like you. Would you rather hate 60-80 hours of your week for 10 years or deal with 40 hours of your week for 15? I vote the latter.