Author Topic: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?  (Read 4317 times)

LPG

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Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« on: August 06, 2018, 10:16:56 AM »
Hi all,

I'm looking for your input on a frustrating situation at work. As I'm sure nobody is surprised to hear, it stems from the fact that my boss and I have completely different world views (If we didn't, he'd have FIREd 20 years ago!), and I'm not sure how to handle it.

The company I work at has been acquired, and is going through dramatic cultural shifts. It went from a casual, freewheeling place that didn't take itself too seriously (There's a reason I joined the company) to a standard, rigid MegaCorp. One of the ways this presents itself is the change in attitudes of management. As the old guard, from the original company, retire they get replaced with people who have much more of a big company mindset. This includes my new boss who is quite a good human being, but as a boss is 100% the mouthpiece of upper management. Expectations and responsibilities are constantly dramatically increasing (I agreed to a role as a technical engineer, and now I'm managing junior staff for example). The expectation is now that people will work on billable projects 40 hr/wk, and do business development on evenings and weekends. Meanwhile, salaries completely stagnate.

Now, I know this is a job I need to leave. Especially since I've now accepted a promotion worth of additional responsibilities without pay, it's time to find somebody who will pay for them. I'm really taking my time on that as I try to identify a good move, and make a smart choice (I have historically been...impulsive). But I have a few solid leads, so let's skip this part of the conversation.

I think a lot of why this happens is that my boss has a fairly typical American attitude about work. It sucks, and there's nothing you can do about it. You show up, you do what your boss tells you to do, you receive a paycheck. Whether you're treated with respect (E.g. Increases in responsibility coming with increased pay) or not doesn't matter. Since you need a paycheck, you're grateful to have a job no matter how much you hate it.

This mindset is anathema to just about everything about me. I can't imagine spending years, much less decades of my life that way. I decided at a young age that I was either going to find a job that I love, or invest a ton of money to get out of the rat race as young as possible. Still working on both of those... But the result is that I have no debt, and a stache nearing ~$250k. Which means that this company has to start showing a dedication to making it a place that I actively want to work, or I truly have no reason to be here (Impending FU Money story?). I'm very tempted to tell my boss all of this, in the hopes that he realizes what it will take for this company to keep me, and that attitudes around here will start to shift.

Have any of you had conversations with your boss where you laid out the facts like that? Have you ever told your company that you truly don't need it in hopes of mending a breaking relationship? In hopes of getting them to take morale and staff retention seriously? If so, how did you approach it? How did it go?

Catbert

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 10:33:41 AM »
It'd be a waste of your breath.  Your boss works at MegaCorp and has an attitude that fits with the corporation.   What do you think he could do to charge a large corporation?   If there are specific things in your boss's control that would keep you, go ahead and discuss. 

AMandM

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 11:03:00 AM »
I agree with Catbert. What you are trying to convey may be so far outside your boss's experience and even imagination that he simply won't be able to understand, let alone act one it. Furthermore, it's probably true only of you and maybe a couple of other people, so even if he does understand, it's not going to lead to company-wide changes.

mm1970

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 11:27:31 AM »
Quote
This mindset is anathema to just about everything about me. I can't imagine spending years, much less decades of my life that way. I decided at a young age that I was either going to find a job that I love, or invest a ton of money to get out of the rat race as young as possible. Still working on both of those... But the result is that I have no debt, and a stache nearing ~$250k. Which means that this company has to start showing a dedication to making it a place that I actively want to work, or I truly have no reason to be here (Impending FU Money story?). I'm very tempted to tell my boss all of this, in the hopes that he realizes what it will take for this company to keep me, and that attitudes around here will start to shift.

Have any of you had conversations with your boss where you laid out the facts like that? Have you ever told your company that you truly don't need it in hopes of mending a breaking relationship? In hopes of getting them to take morale and staff retention seriously? If so, how did you approach it? How did it go?

It kind of makes me think about being in a pot of hot water that they slowly bring to a boil.  Gradual increases in responsibility without pay.  I've been there before, I'm sort of there now.

So, it's a two way street. I'm a good worker and I'm good at my job.  If you want to keep me, you need to pay me, and treat me with respect.  You will not get "110%" or extra after hours work if you are going to nickle and dime my vacation, or pay me well under market rate. 

Back when I worked for a company that needed me to work 72 hours a week short term, when the time came to take a week off, told my boss "I'm taking the week off and I'm not taking vacation, bye!"   I'd banked enough comp time (which was not an actual official thing, by the way).

Next job had a new boss (his first time as a boss), and gently let him know as time went on that you see me doing lots of extra work, but that means if I want to take off early some day, I will do so.  If you want loyalty and hard work you need to reward people - it can be money, time, or other things.

A straight up discussion might not be useful - but if I were you, I would decide how much work you are willing to do, and do it.  See what happens.  If you aren't performing all of the extra duties that are desired - well, discuss that with the boss if they bring it up.  "You aren't doing enough development work." 

"Well, let's talk about that.  You see, I was given more responsibility and work without a pay raise.  I am unable to complete all of this allotted work in my same hours - and without a raise, I am not willing to work extra."  In any event - gentle nudging always worked for me.  I've had other coworkers who have been more direct.

wageslave23

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 01:49:21 PM »
I would not tell your boss that.  Line up a new job that you would rather work and when you put in your two week notice you can tell them your reasons if they ask (or care).  I've made the mistake before of thinking that I could change a company and it just doesn't work.  At least not while you are there.  I had a similar situation where I used to work.  I told them I'm not taking on more responsibility and work without a substantial raise.  They gave me an ok raise.  So I found another job at a substantial raise.  A few months after I left they realized that they needed to pay more for more work and gave my old coworker a substantial raise.  I told him "your welcome".

dcheesi

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 02:06:26 PM »
It'd be a waste of your breath.  Your boss works at MegaCorp and has an attitude that fits with the corporation.   What do you think he could do to charge a large corporation?   If there are specific things in your boss's control that would keep you, go ahead and discuss.
Yep, trying to change the culture of your new corporate overlords would be like trying to hold back the tides. Either figure out a way to float on the waves, or else find a new beach to lay on.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 02:09:18 PM by dcheesi »

MrThatsDifferent

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 02:42:47 PM »
Iím a boss and I think a good one. I donít load more responsibility without increasing pay and title. So what youíre experiencing sucks. That said, if one of my staff came to me to tell me what you want to share Iíd be annoyed as hell. Bosses are employees like you trying to do their bit and working within the systems they are in. They canít snap their fingers and make things perfect for every staff member. The times it hasnít annoyed me is when someoneís mental or physical health were at stake.

If I were you, this is what I would do: de-prioritize work. Show up, do whatís asked, leave work and let it behind you. Donít wrap your identity up with it. Work on your resume, use all those extra things youíre doing to find a new job.  Thatís a great plan youíre working on there, stick to it. In the meantime, donít shoot yourself in the foot. Focus on your resilience. Make a life outside work more exciting so you can put your energy there. Focus on FI and when youíre ready, when youíre safe, you can FU whenever you want.

BrightFIRE

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 02:45:14 PM »
I remember Dr. Doom (LivingaFI) talking about how he decided he wasn't going to be on call on weekends and wouldn't travel for work. He just flatly laid it out to his boss and the boss made some "this is unacceptable" noises, but nothing happened and he ended up having a better schedule.

I've read many accounts here of peope getting better working conditions by saying they won't do /ridiculous thing/ and it having... no consequences. People are generally afraid to speak up, but when you have FU money, you can speak up without fear.

I wouldn't bother with laying out your grand plan, but you could say you're not willing to go over 40 hours or whatever your issue is.

sol

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2018, 03:31:25 PM »
I remember Dr. Doom (LivingaFI) talking about how he decided he wasn't going to be on call on weekends and wouldn't travel for work. He just flatly laid it out to his boss and the boss made some "this is unacceptable" noises, but nothing happened and he ended up having a better schedule.

I concur with this assessement.  They are secretly impotent.  They will try to manipulate you into compliance with lots of "this is mandatory" language, but in the end nothing is truly mandatory right up until the moment they fire you.  If you're not in immediate danger of getting fired then it's not mandatory, and even then it's only mandatory if you want to keep your job.  Which you don't.

You'll scuttle any chance for a future promotion, of course, but that sounds like it's not in the cards anyway.

Employees have WAY more power than they realize, in virtually every workplace.  The greatest secret of organizational management is that managers actually have very little authority to make you do anything at all, they just try to convince you that they do.  They have HR rules they have to follow when dealing with noncompliant or unsatisfactory employees, and the vast majority of them generally can't fire you on the spot unless you've done something illegal (theft, violence, etc.).  The bigger the organization, the more power the employee has.

So don't sweat it.  If you feel you have to tell your boss that you aren't going to work more than the 40 hours per week that your'e getting paid to work, that is totally legit.  It would in fact be technically illegal for them to ask you to work any more than that (thank you labor laws!).  You can also tell them that you're not willing to accept any additional duties unless they come with an increase in pay or a reduction of other duties.  As long as you are performing your current job satisfactorily, they generally can't fire you for being unwilling to do more than is in your job description.  A good manager will make you want to work extra hours and take on more responsibility, but they can never force it on you.

use2betrix

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2018, 03:42:14 PM »
Well - either youíve made yourself an irreplaceable asset, or youíre expendable. The way you seem to approach and discuss your job it doesnít sound like youíre that motivated to stand out and are basically cruising. Feel free to talk to him (what youíre doing is trying to negotiate) but it doesnít sound like youíll get that far. While it sucks that things have changed, Iíd personally evaluate myself if they were treating me as such and not willing to negotiate, such as the ďpromotionĒ with no raise. I work for a fortune 30 company as a manager at their global headquarters and understand the type of environment.

Clever Name

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 06:59:48 AM »
If you feel you have to tell your boss that you aren't going to work more than the 40 hours per week that your'e getting paid to work, that is totally legit.  It would in fact be technically illegal for them to ask you to work any more than that (thank you labor laws!).

I agree with everything else you said, but I'd be very careful about this. It's state-specific, at least in the US, because there is no federal law that prevents a company from requiring salaried professional employees to work more than 40 hours without additional pay.

Lan Mandragoran

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2018, 08:23:57 AM »
Nah.... dont tell them crap.  In the end they are in it for them, no point in trying to "rescue" them when it has serious risks to you.  Maybe if you
think it would somehow mend a relationship... but it sounds more to me like he has a totally different opinion and your more likely to alienate. Also your job doesn't sound very pleasant, I'd suggest you sharpen w/e skills you have and go get a better one :\.

I don't tell my boss almost anything about mmm... and he's super reasonable, friendly, etc. Just has a different worldview and the risk to me is significantly more than the relief that I'd get from telling him he doesn't need a flipping Tesla, fancy house, and every known toy (not even like he makes a ton of $$$).

Schaefer Light

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 09:16:46 AM »
I don't think you're going to have any luck changing the culture of the company, but you might have some luck asking for compensation for the new responsibilities you've taken on.  I'm a manager and I would certainly try to get a raise approved for one of my employees if I substantially increased his responsibilities and/or workload.  In the meantime, I'd try to figure out a way to squeeze all of my work-related activities into a standard 40-hour week.

Slee_stack

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2018, 08:33:03 AM »
I parrot the response theme in this thread.

I did have a come to Jesus with my boss...but only in general terms.

I accepted a promotion demotion and burned out in short order.

I basically went in explaining my key motivators..'work life balance BS'..essentially less time worked.

I shed most of my responsibilities and now have a whole 1 day WFH each week.  Its still a BS department standard that 'no-one works from home'.  Whatever.

I got shafted on a raise this year as a result, but to be truthful, its not a motivator.  Only more time off is.

Admittedly, I've become quite the slacker at work.  I do what I need to, but take it easy the rest of the time.  Its a weird new world for me.   I still hope to go part time (20 hrs would be nice).

If I get fired and receive a bonus on the way out, that would be ideal.   I'm near done though.

eljefe-speaks

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2018, 09:22:08 AM »
I have my mid-year review with the boss tomorrow. I am absolutely miserable in my current position, which I have worked for 8 months now. I have worked several positions at this Megacorp, but this job feels like it was specifically designed to make me fail. It is negatively impacting my health and relationships. On the call tomorrow I will not dare bring any of this up. How would I be able to transfer to another position if my boss thinks I am a problem employee and a complainer? I will just smile and say I am learning tons and everything is great. Then, a few months from now, I will ask for the company's blessing on transferring to a new position where I can learn more, grow, challenge myself, yadda yadda yadda.

It looks like we have some managers in this thread. How can a miserable employee constructively address it without coming across like he is failing in the job? Once you're miserable, what reason does a manager have to not think you would be just as miserable in another position, and, thereby, not recommend you for one?

Edit to respond to OP and not come across like a thread hijacker: personally, no, I would not say anything to the boss. I feel like you just have to play the game.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 09:28:52 AM by eljefe-speaks »

montgomery212

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2018, 10:05:03 AM »
I definitely would NOT have this conversation. Not sure how old you are or how long you've been in the work force, but in my 13 yrs out of school, I've seen these kinds of "ultimatums" back fire. What you're saying makes sense -- they should WANT to retain their good employees and that involves more money if there's greater responsibility, respect etc. BUT you yourself say, your boss is mgmt.'s mouthpiece and HE needs his job, even if you don't need yours. You really think he'll side with a young engineer and go tell off mgmt. on your behalf? Or you think he'll brand you a complainer/troublemaker/not worth his time/naÔve/whatever else? People protect themselves and their own income streams, he will protect his -- not side with your (very rational) opinion.

And bigger picture, IDK how the rest of this board handles it, but in 13 yrs of working, I've never let on to anyone -- boss or coworker -- that my goal was FI so I didn't have to deal with terrible workplaces, etc. for the rest of my life and could pick and choose what work I want to do or maybe even start a business. Reality is I -- and most people here -- set ourselves on this path early. I was much later than others here due to 3 yrs of law school, but I diligently started maxing out the 401k, investing separately from the 401k, saving despite HCOL city life etc. and have thankfully been able to keep it up for the last 13 yrs. I KNOW most of my peers are NOT in this boat and I suspect many of my bosses aren't either. Bringing it up just rubs it in and gives them another thing to talk about, or God forbid brings up the -- well she doesn't NEED the money like John does who is underwater on 2 homes and a luxury car, she already claims to be a millionaire -- types of decision making, should there be a downturn. No thanks -- none of their business!

LPG

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2018, 10:07:01 AM »
Actually, eljefe, I'm glad that you approached hijacking the thread. I've been slow to respond because I wasn't quite sure how to articulate something, but I think you get the real point I'm going for. And that was expressed in the following quote.

It looks like we have some managers in this thread. How can a miserable employee constructively address it without coming across like he is failing in the job? Once you're miserable, what reason does a manager have to not think you would be just as miserable in another position, and, thereby, not recommend you for one?

I know I can leave this job and hope to find a better one. I'm sure that I will. But that isn't what I'm looking for. What I'm looking for is a way to influence the relationship enough that I don't have to leave. I'm looking for evidence that companies will engage to make themselves a place where people want to work, rather than losing their staff. And, in this case, we're talking about highly educated, recognized experts in niche research topics. Hard people to replace. As others in this thread have stated, my attempts are probably futile and I'm probably wasting my breath. But I keep wanting to find an answer to that question you posed. How can a miserable employee address it*?

*Removed the end of your question to make it apply to a broader range of issues. Hopefully you're OK with that.

LPG

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2018, 10:10:30 AM »
Thanks for the input everybody. The responses seem pretty darn unanimous: Terrible idea. So, thanks for talking me out of a bad idea. I'll find some other way to approach this.

MrFancypants

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2018, 11:00:19 AM »
Take this with a pinch of salt as my professional experience is in government work...

As a person who maintains a marketable skill-set a job interview to me should be more about understanding company culture and evaluating if I would be a good fit. It sounds like if you were interviewing for a position at this company and you learned some of these things about it that youíd probably pass on the position and force them to either put more compensation on the table or remove some expectations from it.

If I were in your position I would start plotting my exit before rocking the boat. If you have the resources to survive comfortably without a job, maybe you can afford to start enforcing your boundaries sooner than later.

mak1277

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2018, 11:07:54 AM »
It looks like we have some managers in this thread. How can a miserable employee constructively address it without coming across like he is failing in the job? Once you're miserable, what reason does a manager have to not think you would be just as miserable in another position, and, thereby, not recommend you for one?

A good manager won't ignore a genuine and constructive bit of feedback.  But the key is that you can't just come with a problem...you have to have a solution that might be feasible.  You can't go to your manager and say "the corporate culture sucks, fix it"....but you can say "hey, the whole department is feeling overwhelmed and here are a couple of thoughts I have about how to make it better."

If you approach it by trying to improve the situation on a micro level, the worst thing that can happen is that nothing happens.  If you approach it by complaining or expecting your manager to wave a wand and fix corporate culture you're going to be disappointed.

In terms of recommending someone for another position, I am only going to do that as a manager if I think that person will be a shining positive example of what my department is.  I would never recommend someone who I think is going to perform poorly, or even barely below average, in a new role.  They have to be a success or it harms the chances of anyone else in my department getting a new position.

jlcnuke

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2018, 11:26:03 AM »
Hi all,

I'm looking for your input on a frustrating situation at work. As I'm sure nobody is surprised to hear, it stems from the fact that my boss and I have completely different world views (If we didn't, he'd have FIREd 20 years ago!), and I'm not sure how to handle it.

The company I work at has been acquired, and is going through dramatic cultural shifts. It went from a casual, freewheeling place that didn't take itself too seriously (There's a reason I joined the company) to a standard, rigid MegaCorp. One of the ways this presents itself is the change in attitudes of management. As the old guard, from the original company, retire they get replaced with people who have much more of a big company mindset. This includes my new boss who is quite a good human being, but as a boss is 100% the mouthpiece of upper management. Expectations and responsibilities are constantly dramatically increasing (I agreed to a role as a technical engineer, and now I'm managing junior staff for example). The expectation is now that people will work on billable projects 40 hr/wk, and do business development on evenings and weekends. Meanwhile, salaries completely stagnate.

Now, I know this is a job I need to leave. Especially since I've now accepted a promotion worth of additional responsibilities without pay, it's time to find somebody who will pay for them. I'm really taking my time on that as I try to identify a good move, and make a smart choice (I have historically been...impulsive). But I have a few solid leads, so let's skip this part of the conversation.

I think a lot of why this happens is that my boss has a fairly typical American attitude about work. It sucks, and there's nothing you can do about it. You show up, you do what your boss tells you to do, you receive a paycheck. Whether you're treated with respect (E.g. Increases in responsibility coming with increased pay) or not doesn't matter. Since you need a paycheck, you're grateful to have a job no matter how much you hate it.

This mindset is anathema to just about everything about me. I can't imagine spending years, much less decades of my life that way. I decided at a young age that I was either going to find a job that I love, or invest a ton of money to get out of the rat race as young as possible. Still working on both of those... But the result is that I have no debt, and a stache nearing ~$250k. Which means that this company has to start showing a dedication to making it a place that I actively want to work, or I truly have no reason to be here (Impending FU Money story?). I'm very tempted to tell my boss all of this, in the hopes that he realizes what it will take for this company to keep me, and that attitudes around here will start to shift.

Have any of you had conversations with your boss where you laid out the facts like that? Have you ever told your company that you truly don't need it in hopes of mending a breaking relationship? In hopes of getting them to take morale and staff retention seriously? If so, how did you approach it? How did it go?

What your "facts" are for the job are as follows:
You were hired to do X.
You now do X + Y + Z and manage/supervise ABC number of personnel and work additional hours/days.
You haven't seen an increase in compensation relative to your increasing responsibilities.
Based on the market data you have collected, your current role has a market value of $XX,XXX compared to your current salary of "less than that". As a result, you would like them to strongly consider how to increase your compensation so that you will feel fairly compensated for your contributions to the company.

Your worldview, reasons for working, and financial situation are absolutely meaningless to your employer unless you are irreplaceable, which assuming you are like 99.99999999% of the rest of world you are not. If you'd like to have a calm, organized, and logical discussion with your boss about the "facts" of your situation, feel free to. You may or may not get any results but you can do it professionally. I personally that if you're looking at jumping ship due to compensation that you should have that conversation with your boss. For all you know they are just waiting for you to ask for the compensation before giving it to you, I've heard of worse reasons someone hadn't got a raise associated with their responsibilities..
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 11:28:06 AM by jlcnuke »

bebegirl

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2018, 12:17:31 PM »
You can not change corporate culture. You can not change management attitude. You can only fulfill what they expect from you.

Then only appropriate way for you is to talk to you boss in a professional way about your accomplishments and about considering increase of your compensation.

If this does not happen you feel free to start taking sick days to go for interviews.

This is all you can do.

Good luck!

Nicholas Carter

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2018, 08:22:31 AM »
"Hello Boss. I've been talking to some people who work at [competitor(s)]. They made me an employment offer. It's better than what I'm getting here. These are the things I would need to change about my work here, if you wanted me to stay."
If you tell your boss you're thinking about leaving, he will either meet some of your demands, stall, or fire you. Being totally fine with being fired, and willing to quit if he stalls, is the key to getting some demands met.

MauiNut

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2018, 09:53:41 AM »

The company I work at has been acquired, and is going through dramatic cultural shifts. It went from a casual, freewheeling place that didn't take itself too seriously (There's a reason I joined the company) to a standard, rigid MegaCorp.
 

LPG,

Your story hits very close to home.  If the initials of the last two CEOs of the acquired company are PKA and PKM, I'm in the same topheavy boat as you are, mate.

nick663

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2018, 10:46:13 AM »
I remember Dr. Doom (LivingaFI) talking about how he decided he wasn't going to be on call on weekends and wouldn't travel for work. He just flatly laid it out to his boss and the boss made some "this is unacceptable" noises, but nothing happened and he ended up having a better schedule.

I concur with this assessement.  They are secretly impotent.  They will try to manipulate you into compliance with lots of "this is mandatory" language, but in the end nothing is truly mandatory right up until the moment they fire you.  If you're not in immediate danger of getting fired then it's not mandatory, and even then it's only mandatory if you want to keep your job.  Which you don't.

You'll scuttle any chance for a future promotion, of course, but that sounds like it's not in the cards anyway.

Employees have WAY more power than they realize, in virtually every workplace.  The greatest secret of organizational management is that managers actually have very little authority to make you do anything at all, they just try to convince you that they do.  They have HR rules they have to follow when dealing with noncompliant or unsatisfactory employees, and the vast majority of them generally can't fire you on the spot unless you've done something illegal (theft, violence, etc.).  The bigger the organization, the more power the employee has.

So don't sweat it.  If you feel you have to tell your boss that you aren't going to work more than the 40 hours per week that your'e getting paid to work, that is totally legit.  It would in fact be technically illegal for them to ask you to work any more than that (thank you labor laws!).  You can also tell them that you're not willing to accept any additional duties unless they come with an increase in pay or a reduction of other duties.  As long as you are performing your current job satisfactorily, they generally can't fire you for being unwilling to do more than is in your job description.  A good manager will make you want to work extra hours and take on more responsibility, but they can never force it on you.
In addition to everything you said here, most bosses that are dumping stuff like this on their employees are doing it out of fear for their own jobs (which is why they're not pushing back on upper management).  Because of that fear, they will not escalate a personnel issue unless absolutely necessary.  The path of least resistance is to find someone else within their direct reports to do the work you're refusing and that is what they will do 99 times out of 100.

Kay-Ell

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2018, 11:39:02 AM »
Nobody at MegaCorp cares about your path toward FI. They only care about what they can get out of you as an employee. So if youíre actually interested in attempting some small level of change, focus on what they care about. What they can get out of you as an employee. Prioritize your essential job duties (maybe ask for a copy of your official job description from HR). Deprioritize everything else, and if it doesnít fit within what you consider a reasonable work schedule, then it wonít get accomplished. One of two things will happen. Either theyíll let it slide and youíll have less work stress. Or it will force a conversation (probably a disaplinary one) in which you can present your facts (youíre accomplishing your official job duties and unwillling to take on more responsibility without more pay). The likelihood that either of these outcomes would have any effect on the company culture is extremely low. It would probably only work if all of your coworkers followed your lead and got the attention of management. But the reality is as long as there are plenty of people willing to work in toxic MegaCorp culture they wonít change. And you have to ask yourself do you really want to waste your time and energy, doing the bare minimum in an attempt to manipulate them into giving you a raise for a job that youíd likely hate just as much if you were fairly compensated?

If I were you Iíd focus on being one less person willing to work in a toxic MegaCorp. You canít change them but you absolutely can change how you spend your time and energy. You can find a job that will make you a lot happier. One that youíll be excited to apply yourself to. And one that will pay you fairly without having to be manipulated.

Seadog

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2018, 07:04:35 AM »
In terms of recommending someone for another position, I am only going to do that as a manager if I think that person will be a shining positive example of what my department is.  I would never recommend someone who I think is going to perform poorly, or even barely below average, in a new role.  They have to be a success or it harms the chances of anyone else in my department getting a new position.

That's funny. In my experience in a company with high levels of employee mobility, bosses would try and hang on to their superstars so they could keep on making them look good, and transfer out the problem children.

As for the actual problem, you're going to have a hard time convincing most people I think. The "you're lucky to have a job" mindset and prevailing wisdom that workers would be on the street if not for megacorp is ubiquitous, and sadly for the vast majority of people true. Some mega corps actually like that, because it means they can push people around. An old boss said he loved to see a new 20 yo employee drive in in a brand new $40k truck, because it meant he wasn't going anywhere for 3-5 years.

Pennsylvanian

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Re: Good idea to tell your boss the facts?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2018, 12:07:08 PM »
Well - either youíve made yourself an irreplaceable asset, or youíre expendable.

The cemeteries are filled with "irreplaceable" people, as are the retirement ranks and the unemployment rosters. No such thing where employees are concerned, and it is best for all not to forget it.