Author Topic: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?  (Read 11559 times)

helloyou

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Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« on: September 17, 2020, 03:25:51 PM »
hello

I've just been out with friends who spend way more than me. We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.

I'm frugal naturally but they are not. And we went out for diner tonight.

They had plenty of drink, start, main... was costing around $70 / head.

Then we went out for drink... around $30 each.


So spending $100 for a night out with friends. One of them came back home useing uber (would cost her $30-40 more). It was fun. It was great.


But I feel it's too much. One of my friend noticed I was annoyed by the bill and offered to pay for me. She earns less than me, she knows it, and still offered to pay for me. I refused and pay for my share by spliting the bill all together. I looked at the bill and divided it by 4. The total was something like $69.25 each including service charge and I pay for exactly that. All others rounded it and paid $70...

Then later we went for drink and my friend paid for everyone's drink trying to save a bit of my money.


I feel a bit ashamed. At the same time I had good time.

What would you do? I don't want to spend $100 twice a week. It's too much. But I don't want to look like a damn tight & selfish guy either. And they are good friends.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:28:31 PM by helloyou »

RFAAOATB

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2020, 03:31:03 PM »
Maybe only go once a week?  Every few times offer to be the designated driver?  There are a few small steps you can take before self alienating.

terran

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 03:42:16 PM »
Probably both.

Worrying about $0.75, being bothered about splitting the bill 4 ways, and letting your friend who makes the same or less than you pay for your drink is cheap.

Your friends seem comfortable being big spenders compared to you. That's kind of what happens when you're a mustachian. By definition you're going to underspend people who make a similar income, so you can get comfortable with that and set limits, or you can be friends who make less than you so you can spend like they do without giving up your goals.

You kind of need to just decide what your limits are. Suggest free activities you think they'd like. If they only want to do spendy activities either decide it's worth the money to hang out with them or not.

And I hope you're in a country that has COVID under reasonable control and not in the US. A night on the town like you've described is irresponsible here right now IMO.

helloyou

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2020, 03:50:25 PM »
Maybe only go once a week?  Every few times offer to be the designated driver?  There are a few small steps you can take before self alienating.

Even once a week that's still too much lol. But yeah maybe I go once every 2-3 weeks...

ChickenStash

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2020, 03:59:32 PM »
There's no right answer so I'll throw my opinion out there. I wouldn't say $100 for a night on the town in a big city is unreasonable but doing that a few times a week would be farther than I would go at that income level (pretty close to my own). I'll second the suggestions to try suggesting cheaper alternatives or just go less often.

If I do choose to go out, I'd also just grin and bear the costs w/o complaining to anyone else about it or doing something that would make other people feel they should pay for me. That's not right. I knew the rules when I chose to go out and it's my responsibility to cover my part.

Zikoris

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2020, 04:15:26 PM »
It's more of an issue of values than anyone being right or wrong, spendy or tight.

I don't think it's an unreasonable amount to spend for a night out, but at the same time, I personally would have zero interest in participating in that, and probably would not want to be friends with people like that unless they also liked to do other activities together that were more in line with my values. If I were in that situation, my priority would be making new friends.

Arbitrage

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 04:24:28 PM »
Agree with the general principle that you should limit these excursions (if FI is a priority), but that when you do go out, you just mentally budget for that activity rather than grinding your teeth all along the way.  You could try to experiment with other ways to enjoy spending time with these friends that don't involve mass expenditures of money.  Also, you could also make it clear that you'd prefer not to split checks, if you are able to enjoy these activities while not blowing a huge wad of cash.  Just make sure that you bring up the check-splitting before you've ordered at the restaurant, not when the check shows up.  As long as you make your position and expectations clear up front, there shouldn't be any hurt feelings.

If they don't bite, it's possible that at some point you're going to have to decide where you want your life to go - if their way of life is incompatible with your financial goals, you might need to cut bait, or at least make it clear that you can only do this once a month or whatever.

Whether or not your friends are big spenders and/or you're a miser are just based upon perspective.  From the mustachian perspective, they're crazy.  From the perspective of the typical high-income 20-something American, you might be the crazy one.

slappy

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2020, 05:09:26 PM »
Why would you have to go out twice a week? Why would you have to split the bill? Why do you worry so much about your friends' spending habits?

Kwill

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2020, 05:18:45 PM »
This reminds me of a Friends episode...

With groups, sometimes it can be easier to go to a place where you order, pay, and then sit down so that it's all easier at the end of the evening. Maybe you wouldn't want to do that every time since it's more casual, but if there's a place like that with good reviews, maybe you could suggest trying it. That way you would have more control over your own bill. Or as Arbitrage suggested, make it clear from the beginning that you'd like to get separate checks.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 05:21:07 PM by Kwill »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2020, 05:38:57 PM »
Can you ask for separate bills before you order?  Then when you do go with this group you can relax, knowing that you are spending for what you want.

Seriously, my theatre group of about 40 people did this, we went to an out of town theatre in a group bus, descended on the restaurant and all ordered individually, ate fast because of curtain time, and then went to the theatre.  The restaurant was happy to have us.  Rushed service and separate bills were not an issue because they were prepared for us.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2020, 05:41:15 PM »

Your friends are big spenders. 

$30 is about my limit for a meal.  I'd never consider spending $100 for a meal & a drink, just hanging out with friends.  If it is a date or a special occasion I'm willing to spend more, but not on just regular socializing. 


If you plan to FIRE I'd suggest avoiding the $400 nights out with friends.

oldladystache

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2020, 06:03:32 PM »
What I would do, but I'm weird:

Hey friends, I really like going out with you but I'm trying to save my money. Is it OK with you if I join you but I don't buy all the expensive things?

I have friends I go out with (not lately) who are free spenders. Once they decided to go to a fancier place for lunch and one of them warned me in advance that it was more than we usually spend. Gave me an easy out in case I didn't want to spend the money. I went and had a good time,but I didn't have to.

I'm pretty sure none of them think I'm broke. They can tell I hate wasting money though.

Tass

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2020, 06:28:57 PM »
We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.

Lol. That is a great wage.

I don't have much to add to the other recommendations. Yes, it's cheap to worry about $0.75. Yes, $100 for a meal is big spending, especially regularly. You could simply accept this, budget for it, and try to enjoy it; you could ask for separate checks up front, and order an appetizer and a water; or you could go out less often.

Peachtea

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2020, 06:50:11 PM »
$100 twice a week is spendy, but not rounding up to $70 is cheap. I don’t think $100/person for full meal + drinks + after drinks is a lot in a city, it’s more of the frequency that’s the problem.

If you want to go out with them and keep costs down, go less frequently, i.e. 1-3 times a month. Be the one to suggest the time so it’s either after work happy hour with drinks and apps or just after dinner drinks. And suggests cheaper places or places that are sit down, but where you order at the counter, like “fancy” food halls. (Chicago has several, where they are like food courts but way better because they are off shoots of legit restaurants.) Those are great to hang out but have non-awkward separate tabs. Same for bars actually. If you skip dinner or go afterwards to get drinks at a bar, you usually have separate tabs.

Also, if you are really only having one drink and a couple bites of an app, whilst everyone else has many drinks and lots of food, then when the bill comes just pitch in your fare share, generously rounded up and including tax and service charge/tip. That way you’re not being cheap because your overpaying your share, but you also save by paying much less than the overall per head amount. I.e you buy a $13 drink, throw in a $20. Have cash available to make it easier. I have a friend who just doesn’t drink much (and is mustachian). When our group goes out, she often only has one and then water or soda, while the rest of us have three and order apps. I’ve never thought it was cheap of her to throw in a $20 while we divide the remainder equally amongst ourselves. We usually all over pay, because we’re all rounding up and sometimes she ends up paying nothing, especially if drinks are like $5 happy hour. We give her $20 back or tell her not to put in anything, because it doesn’t make sense for her to do so if she had one $5 drink. It doesn’t bother me if I end up paying a whole $2 of her drink/tax/tip in that scenario and I don’t think she’s cheap.

charis

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2020, 07:05:28 PM »
If you are annoyed by this to the point of outward irritability, you shouldn't be there and yes, it does make you look cheap. If you do attend a dinner with these friends, make your peace with splitting the bill and just enjoy yourself.

Good news - it's super easy to deal with this. If I don't feel like dropping cash on a pricey dinner, I decline  (simply say you have other plans) or say you can't make dinner but you'll meet up for drinks later. I do this regularly (I would generally rather eat with my family anyway) - show up for drinks, buy a round, and that's it.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2020, 07:19:13 PM »
Old office mates went out to lunch every day.  They would drop $12-15 a day, I usually made it out for $8 or so by ordering water and cheaper menu items.  After a while of this, I opted out, taking my lunch instead and going for a walk in the park at lunch.  Didn't hurt our relationship at all. 

nirodha

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2020, 08:24:00 PM »
The cost is typical for the income bracket. It can pay off by networking you into higher paying jobs. It's also possible to get jobs where work pays for nights like this as part of doing business. That's a more frugal option, if you really love the lifestyle.

Twice a week is a bit much IMO. Outside of the cost, consuming all that takes a toll on your body.

If you want to play their game, that is the price. You can pick a different one, or find ways to dip in for parts. IE - show up 30 minutes late because you had another dinner obligation, but wanted to say hi. Have just a drink and hang out. Or, catch them after dinner for $30 of drinks. Etc.

It's also possible your life is diverging from theirs, and it is time to move on. Offer up some cheaper activities. Ditch anyone who won't follow.

OtherJen

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2020, 08:30:11 PM »
We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.

Lol. That is a great wage.

I don't have much to add to the other recommendations. Yes, it's cheap to worry about $0.75. Yes, $100 for a meal is big spending, especially regularly. You could simply accept this, budget for it, and try to enjoy it; you could ask for separate checks up front, and order an appetizer and a water; or you could go out less often.

Haha, right? My household income has yet to reach 6 figures per annum.

OP and topic: yes, your friends are spendy. I agree that you should figure out your own values and boundaries. For example, I would not have a problem spending like that once a month. I like a good restaurant meal and fancy cocktails. But multiple times per week would be too much for me. It wouldn’t seem like a treat anymore, and the money would seem wasted.

lilsaver

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2020, 08:54:34 PM »
Twice a week is definitely alot, maybe go once a week or 2 times a month. Or, try to suggest a less expensive activity, maybe something that doesn't involve food/drinks like a hike, volunteer activity, etc. Or, you choose the restaurant, so you can look for a less expensive option. It's nice  your friend could see your discomfort and offered to pay for you.

But, I agree with others on the $0.75 - you should round up.

elaine amj

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2020, 07:46:36 AM »
Ouch. I thought we were getting pretty spendy lately but I pretty much hit my "are you kidding?!" limit at $50-70/pp. Then again, we're not drinkers and very occasionally treat ourselves to one hyper expensive $15 drink. I guess from what everyone else here says, it's not out of the norm but I can't even imagine my budget handling that level of spend regularly. Then again, we only earned on average about $60k/year each.

Most of our friends spend more normally than we do and we have one very close friend who is more spendy (probably more like your $100/pp for a night out).

We took the lead in actively finding fun (and cheap!) things for our friend groups to do and made a lot of the invites.  We also hosted many, many dinners and games nights at our home. We do turn down invites to $70 cooking classes and weekend getaways at $$ B&Bs and counter it with invites to restaurants we got a great Groupon deal on or offer 2-4-1 daily specials, camping trips (our friend group has awesome memories we all cherish) and free hotels/cottages with our array of miles and points.

I did see one friend less when I started turning down 2-3x a week lunch invites in favor of brown bagging it. Which sucked a bit but it was just getting way too expensive. We're still great friends all these years later though and we try to see him for lunch every 1-2 months.

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tipster350

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2020, 08:15:06 AM »
That's a bit spendy for me, but par for the course in many circles living in metro areas. I will participate occasionally, but I go with the attitude and knowledge that it is the plan for the evening. I don't feel any need to judge my friends for their choices, and I don't get angry when the bill comes if I participate. There is no need for getting annoyed; if you find this type of spending worth it, go along; if not, don't go. There is also the opportunity to suggest less expensive outings if you like getting together with the group, so that you can still socialize but within your comfort zone.

If you do go on the spendy nights out, keep the crappy attitude to yourself and don't count out to the penny. Obviously your reaction was strong enough that it cast a shadow on the mood and prompted your lower-paid colleague to feel bad. No one wants a judgy downer on an expensive evening out.

SunnyDays

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2020, 10:41:58 AM »
$200.00 a week, every week?  No way would I be spending that, I don't care how much I like the people.  On occasion, fine, but I can think of better things to do with $10000.00 bucks a year.  Pinching the pennies once you're there is cheap though.  If you're serious about early retirement, it's hard to justify this, in my opinion.  Plus, I don't understand the American practice of one bill per table.  Here, everyone is billed separately.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 11:32:38 AM by SunnyDays »

rantk81

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2020, 11:16:33 AM »
Plus, I don't understand the American practice of one bill per table.  Here, everyone is billed separately.

It's more work for the employee/server to keep things separate and put the orders/bills into the computer separately.  I've encountered push-back on multiple occasions when asking for a split bill.  Even when you mention that ahead of time.  I can understand it being an issue if you only mention it at the end of the meal...

ReadySetMillionaire

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2020, 11:43:19 AM »
I think you have to value social spending by (a) how much you might enjoy it, but also (b) what you might get in return.

I no longer go out just to go out. I have to really like and enjoying spending time with that person. For me, that limited my social gatherings at least somewhat.

But you also have to think long term. I have spent God knows how many lunch hours and drinks after work with lawyers over and over and over and over. And now I get a ton of referrals from these lawyers. Those lunches and drinks paid for themselves 10-fold.

The other thing is that eventually you might stumble on a business opportunity. One of my friends I keep in touch with might join me in buying some rentals. One of my clients, who I take out to lunch probably every other month, has offered me a business opportunity.

We live in a social world. You need to be good at what you do, but you also need to put yourself out there.

Perhaps you want to get into rentals some day but it will take you too long to get the capital. In that case, go out to lunch a bunch, and mention rentals. Bring up the rental podcasts you're listening to. You never know.

So, like everything else, it's not just a straightforward calculus. You should try to be deliberate about it.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2020, 11:50:53 AM »
$200.00 a week, every week?  No way would I be spending that, I don't care how much I like the people.  On occasion, fine, but I can think of better things to do with $10000.00 bucks a year.
To take it one step further, an extra $10k a year of spending requires an extra $250k in retirement savings.  That's how I like to look at things any time I'm considering adding a recurring expense to my budget.

dividend

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2020, 12:32:48 PM »
Put it in context.  I have always budgeted 10% of my gross income for spending on stuff I want - food and drinks out, vacations, cute shoes, whatever.  Starting when I made much less, and it obviously scales up as you make more.  So at $100k a year, that's roughly $900 a month.  So under my criteria, this is reasonable if I don't want to do anything else fun that costs money.  I would rather go out once a week and still have money to go to Hawaii.  What's your budget for discretionary fun?  Comparing these expenditures to that is the only way to determine if it's reasonable for you.  If you don't have a budget line item for fun like this, you have to view every dollar spent in this way as a trade-off with savings and investments. 

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RetiredAt63

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2020, 01:46:54 PM »
Plus, I don't understand the American practice of one bill per table.  Here, everyone is billed separately.

It's more work for the employee/server to keep things separate and put the orders/bills into the computer separately.  I've encountered push-back on multiple occasions when asking for a split bill.  Even when you mention that ahead of time.  I can understand it being an issue if you only mention it at the end of the meal...

It seems to be an American thing.  I've never seen a problem here.  As I mentioned earlier, we were a group of about 40 with all individual cheques,  and the restaurant was happy to have us. 

Basically splitting one cheque means the people buying the expensive items are subsidized by the rest if the bill is split evenly, or there is all the arithmetic of who ordered what which gets really tedious and acrimonious..

OtherJen

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2020, 01:56:15 PM »
Plus, I don't understand the American practice of one bill per table.  Here, everyone is billed separately.

It's more work for the employee/server to keep things separate and put the orders/bills into the computer separately.  I've encountered push-back on multiple occasions when asking for a split bill.  Even when you mention that ahead of time.  I can understand it being an issue if you only mention it at the end of the meal...

It seems to be an American thing.  I've never seen a problem here.  As I mentioned earlier, we were a group of about 40 with all individual cheques,  and the restaurant was happy to have us. 

Basically splitting one cheque means the people buying the expensive items are subsidized by the rest if the bill is split evenly, or there is all the arithmetic of who ordered what which gets really tedious and acrimonious..

It probably is an American thing. When I worked in restaurants, a single check for 6 or more diners meant that the system automatically included 15% gratuity (i.e., a tip) on the tab. When I had to split checks, the system didn’t add the gratuity, and usually at least one diner skipped the tip. I actually lost money on a table of 12 because they made the payment process as chaotic as possible and someone managed to slip out without paying before I realized it. The restaurant forced me to use the tips from a few of the other diners left to cover the skipped tab.

Yes, the tipping system sucks. So does $2.65 per hour wage before tips.

dougules

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2020, 02:14:19 PM »
Your friends definitely are spendy, and $100k/year is a great income.  There are so many people in the world who couldn't imagine earning and spending that much. 

That being said, they are who they are.  How important are they to you?  Are they $10k/year level friends?  If you only went out once a week or once every other week are they $5k/year or $2.5/year level friends?  Is there a way you could gently suggest less expensive social activities?  If they want to keep socializing at that spending level, though, then you'll have to figure out if those relationships are worth it to you. If it is, go and have fun.  Pay your fair share happily without getting wrapped up in the money.  If it's not, bow out nicely, and let them do their thing.   

Are your relationships with them important to your career?  If so, I'd just mentally consider it a business expense and not worry about it.

Are any other folks in that friend group hesitant to spend that much?  You might see if you can start hanging out more often with them outside the spendy group.

ericrugiero

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2020, 02:17:25 PM »
Splitting the bill is common around here and with my friends.  I have been out with people who don't do that and it seems they want to portray that they aren't worried about money so it doesn't matter. 

If paying by card and the tip is already included then I wouldn't round up either.  If I was going to leave an extra tip it would be more than $0.75 and the tip was already included.  When paying cash I wouldn't expect change back. 

$100 per person is a very expensive night to me.  It wouldn't be a huge deal to do very occasionally but that could really add up fast.  The right path forward really depends on your friend group.  Some people would really look down on others for not spending like they are and being willing to split the bill.  Others wouldn't care at all.  If your friends are the first you may need some new friends (or just make peace with "wasting" money).  If they are more understanding, you can easily be more frugal. 

Jack0Life

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2020, 02:43:20 PM »

I've just been out with friends who spend way more than me. We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.



You must think everyone on MMM makes $200k or something.
I hate to tell you but $100k is a great salary

wenchsenior

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #31 on: September 18, 2020, 02:57:42 PM »

I've just been out with friends who spend way more than me. We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.



You must think everyone on MMM makes $200k or something.
I hate to tell you but $100k is a great salary

I snorted coffee when I saw that line.  Median household income is around 60K in the U.S.

maisymouser

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2020, 03:10:49 PM »

I've just been out with friends who spend way more than me. We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.



You must think everyone on MMM makes $200k or something.
I hate to tell you but $100k is a great salary

I snorted coffee when I saw that line.  Median household income is around 60K in the U.S.

Yep... I wouldn't go around saying "$100k/year. So not great wage". You might get a few real life face punches by non-Mustachians and Mustachians alike. That puts you in like, the top 2% of earners in the world or something.

BDWW

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2020, 03:48:10 PM »

I've just been out with friends who spend way more than me. We work in the same domain and we probably make around $100k/year. So not great wage but not that bad.


You must think everyone on MMM makes $200k or something.
I hate to tell you but $100k is a great salary

I snorted coffee when I saw that line.  Median household income is around 60K in the U.S.

Yep... I wouldn't go around saying "$100k/year. So not great wage". You might get a few real life face punches by non-Mustachians and Mustachians alike. That puts you in like, the top 2% of earners in the world or something.

Yeah, but it's only more than 86% of Americans *eyeroll*

https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/

diapasoun

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2020, 03:49:32 PM »
I probably do a $100/head night two or three times a year -- it usually involves taking out a friend for a special occasion. Those times often feel worth it, but not always. (For deets, I'm Bay Area and although I make less than you, it's still an above-median, very respectable wage.)

I'm definitely familiar with the unintended social pressure to eat out more frequently and at fancier places. It's hard. You don't wanna feel cheap but if it feels like a waste, then it feels like a waste (and that's a shitty pall to throw over fun times with friends).

I think you've gotten lots of good advice and avenues forward here, but I have one particular thing I'm wondering about: Can you become the person in your friend group who knows all the amazing little hole-in-the-wall places? I'm thinking about things like the little dumpling window with amazing 5-for-2 dumplings, or the great taqueria whose salsa is just 100%, or the burger shack with the perfect fries. If this is a possibility, then you become an expert in delicious cheap eats instead of feeling like you're the miser holding your friends back. It's a way of turning what would normally be a negative request of "let's not spend this much" into a positive request of "come to this little place with me, I want to share it with you."

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2020, 04:15:47 PM »
I probably do a $100/head night two or three times a year -- it usually involves taking out a friend for a special occasion. Those times often feel worth it, but not always. (For deets, I'm Bay Area and although I make less than you, it's still an above-median, very respectable wage.)

I'm definitely familiar with the unintended social pressure to eat out more frequently and at fancier places. It's hard. You don't wanna feel cheap but if it feels like a waste, then it feels like a waste (and that's a shitty pall to throw over fun times with friends).

I think you've gotten lots of good advice and avenues forward here, but I have one particular thing I'm wondering about: Can you become the person in your friend group who knows all the amazing little hole-in-the-wall places? I'm thinking about things like the little dumpling window with amazing 5-for-2 dumplings, or the great taqueria whose salsa is just 100%, or the burger shack with the perfect fries. If this is a possibility, then you become an expert in delicious cheap eats instead of feeling like you're the miser holding your friends back. It's a way of turning what would normally be a negative request of "let's not spend this much" into a positive request of "come to this little place with me, I want to share it with you."




Great advice. 

OtherJen

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2020, 05:27:23 PM »
I probably do a $100/head night two or three times a year -- it usually involves taking out a friend for a special occasion. Those times often feel worth it, but not always. (For deets, I'm Bay Area and although I make less than you, it's still an above-median, very respectable wage.)

I'm definitely familiar with the unintended social pressure to eat out more frequently and at fancier places. It's hard. You don't wanna feel cheap but if it feels like a waste, then it feels like a waste (and that's a shitty pall to throw over fun times with friends).

I think you've gotten lots of good advice and avenues forward here, but I have one particular thing I'm wondering about: Can you become the person in your friend group who knows all the amazing little hole-in-the-wall places? I'm thinking about things like the little dumpling window with amazing 5-for-2 dumplings, or the great taqueria whose salsa is just 100%, or the burger shack with the perfect fries. If this is a possibility, then you become an expert in delicious cheap eats instead of feeling like you're the miser holding your friends back. It's a way of turning what would normally be a negative request of "let's not spend this much" into a positive request of "come to this little place with me, I want to share it with you."




Great advice.

I love this advice.

nirodha

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2020, 06:29:00 PM »
Just split the check evenly. It is class appropriate behavior for high 5-figure to low 6-figure earners. Doing a bunch of drunk math to avoid sharing $20 ruins the good time. Bring a higher earner into the party, and they might even pick up the bill. Providing the correct social signaling is the price of being included in their game.

Part of what you are paying for here, is time at the table, in an upscale environment. $10 tacos aren't going to provide that experience. Not that both aren't a good time, but one is not a substitute for the other.

Dancin'Dog

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2020, 06:55:48 PM »
Just split the check evenly. It is class appropriate behavior for high 5-figure to low 6-figure earners. Doing a bunch of drunk math to avoid sharing $20 ruins the good time. Bring a higher earner into the party, and they might even pick up the bill. Providing the correct social signaling is the price of being included in their game.

Part of what you are paying for here, is time at the table, in an upscale environment. $10 tacos aren't going to provide that experience. Not that both aren't a good time, but one is not a substitute for the other.


"Class appropriate", right.   The "more you make, the more you blow" isn't a class, it's a mentality. 


Ask them when they plan to retire, or what their net worth is & enjoy the dumbfounded looks. 




   

vand

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2020, 06:23:51 AM »
Quote
Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?

Both; they are not mutually exclusive.

charis

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2020, 08:50:11 AM »
I just a similar night out with friends that was almost $100, so a crazy $200 for a married couple. But it was a special occasion that I knew would be expensive and mentally prepared to have a great time without caring about the cost. It was much more enjoyable that way. But I'd only do that a few times a year.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2020, 09:01:58 AM »
Spending $100 for a night out with friends occasionally [like once every two months] causes me no concern. Maybe even once a month, but not twice a week or even once every two weeks. OTOH we regularly hit the pub [pre-COVID] after a bike ride and spend $30/person. I'd do that once a week for sure and perhaps twice a week in the summer when activities are higher.

To the OP set a budget for these activities and stick to it. You don't need to attend every social event for this group to be friends with them. You can also suggest alternate activities that are lower cost like picnic in a park or seeing an art show or museum and then grabbing a drink while avoiding dinner. Worrying about $0.75 is being cheap. I usually round up to the nearest $5 when splitting costs with people. That way I cover my end and if someone else doesn't cover their end 100% the sever doesn't get screwed on the tip.

nirodha

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2020, 03:49:56 PM »
"Class appropriate", right.   The "more you make, the more you blow" isn't a class, it's a mentality. 

It is how people signal they are alike, which then leads to other reciprocity. Assuming the friends aren't losers, mirroring their behavior can more than pay for itself. The lower earner offering to cover OP's dinner suggests they are not losers. She may have been trying to gently guide OP through the social norms.

People give opportunities to their friends. It pays to have high earning friends. Wasteful or not, this is part of how they socialize.

Schaefer Light

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2020, 05:15:12 PM »
"Class appropriate", right.   The "more you make, the more you blow" isn't a class, it's a mentality. 

It is how people signal they are alike, which then leads to other reciprocity. Assuming the friends aren't losers, mirroring their behavior can more than pay for itself. The lower earner offering to cover OP's dinner suggests they are not losers. She may have been trying to gently guide OP through the social norms.

People give opportunities to their friends. It pays to have high earning friends. Wasteful or not, this is part of how they socialize.
This just seems like giving in to peer pressure.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2020, 05:07:01 AM »
Pretty much everything has been suggested or said so I will agree here-

Create an Entertainment category in your monthly budget and live by it.

If it is going to bug you that much then dont go vs perhaps making a friend feel responsible for you and risk losing them. Its to easy to just say I dont need friends that spend like that but in this case it seemed like your friend was be a real friend in trying to cause you embarrassment or? could be wrong but based on how you wrote it.

The difference of being frugal and cheap was evident in not rounding up the 75 cents.

Just try to understand ahead of time what you may or may not be getting into and eliminate your chances of being in a position you dont want to be in vs losing friends over it.

I have alot of friends that are big spenders BUT because i disagree with the way there spending I dont want lose them as friends because there are other attributes about them I really like. But I have no problem figuring out what I want to do and sticking to our entertainment budget without anyone knowing my reasonings.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2020, 07:18:45 AM »
This just seems like giving in to peer pressure.

Some career paths require networking to get ahead. Spending $100 on a dozen night outs seems like a pretty good deal when you get a nice pay raise for that promotion that was never even advertised. The main contracts that funded my FIRE came to because of who I knew and socialized with.

nirodha

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2020, 08:20:07 AM »
A $100 dinner is getting off cheap. This is foot in the door level, for the eventual full blending of your work and social circles. It is how people making "great" money live. They understand the value trade off.

I hate this stuff and have opted out of most of it. The opportunity cost is high, but I know what I am choosing. It sounds like OP might be unclear on that.

I've avoided coworkers planning 3 star Michelin dining that would run in the multiple hundreds per head. Annual company ski trips that would be a couple thousand, but give face time with the highest tiers. It only goes up from there. The behavior is part of paving the path to wealth.

Much Fishing to Do

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2020, 08:22:23 AM »
Maybe only go once a week?  Every few times offer to be the designated driver?  There are a few small steps you can take before self alienating.

Even once a week that's still too much lol. But yeah maybe I go once every 2-3 weeks...

That's probably the practical solution here. 

Taking out all finance/goals assumptions, etc, I ask if you really do enjoy all this?  Having people pay for me, worrying about what others are spending and if I'd have to chip in on that, feeling cheap, feeling like I'm blowing too much money, not spending wisely, etc etc would likely prevent me from having anything I would call a good time and at multiple times a week would start to weigh on me I would think.  As far as the discussions on business development, raising your "class", etc, well that just sounds like work to me and if that's what it is then I guess that's a different animal.   I've taken clients out out of my pocket, and taken employees out out of my pocket, but we're talking about a $400 bill a couple/few times a year, so maybe $1k/year.

Taking finances into account, at your current pace we're talking about ~$1k/month of spending.  I assume at $100k you bring home around $6500/mth. $1k mnth is a lot for someone trying to become FI at that salary, e.g can be the difference between a 15% and a 30% after tax savings rate, which I view more pointedly as the difference between retiring at 62 versus at 47.  Put in another way $1k/mth would cover the mortgage on the median value home in the US.


IMO that's a huge chunk, so unless you're already halfway to FI or further and the portfolio gains are taking over the heavy lifting, this is a HUGE impediment to getting there.  For what its worth I have $3M in investments, so what I consider $120k/year available to me for monthly spending.  If I doubled those numbers above to include my spouse, I'd be spending $25k/year for us to go out like that.  I cover my current college kid's tuition, room & board for much less.  The (what I considered luxurious) 6 week long European vacation for my family of 5 took cost half that, so we could have stayed for the whole summer.... (and we did plenty of going out all over the continent).  That's just my way of saying that's a TON of money IMO.

Cassie

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2020, 08:31:22 AM »
Separate checks is the best way so everyone pays for what they had and no resentment builds up.

Dicey

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Re: Are my friends big spenders or am I too tight?
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2020, 09:31:36 AM »
Wait a minute - were in the midst of a pandemic and you're still going out to eat with friends twice a week?

You have the opportunity of a lifetime to avoid this expensive activity for a drop-dead serious reason. Take advantage and stop eating out. Save the money and label it "For future dining out". When this thing lifts, challenge yourself to make it last as long as possible by doing what others have suggested and become the king of diverting the group to less expensive places. Scaling back to once a week will have a huge impact. Promise yourself not to quibble over anything less than, say, five bucks. If you can't do that, then yes, you're a cheap-ass and you shouldn't go out to eat with friends at all.