Author Topic: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark  (Read 13980 times)

Letj

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 415
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2015, 03:39:31 PM »
The poor and older Americans get a lot out of the system. I know this first hand as a landlord who have some low income tenants. They get free medical, free or almost free housing, food stamps and in many cases SSI payments for real and imagined ailments.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10880
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2015, 10:01:55 PM »
Yes, that is another thing we have in many northern european countries. 5 weeks paid vacation + 5 x xtra free vacation days. Also a 37 hour workweek (norm here) and a guaranteed income if we loose our job (that you can live on, if your are a mustachian).

For what it's worth, a lot of folks in the USA would probably be more than happy to have this as their working career for 20 years if it meant working quite a few more years...
I'd take this in a heartbeat!

EricP

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #52 on: August 31, 2015, 09:25:50 AM »
Only 0.7% tax is very little - we Dutchies pay 1,2% on any stash above 21000. The government assumes 4% ROI and taxes that at 30%. Which is far too high, IMHO, us Dutchies tend to be savers and 4% hasn't been a realistic interest rate for a long while now.

@StacheDK: LOL, you are right - you will pry my bicycle from my cold, dead hands.

0.7% isn't small at all.  That effectively reduces your SWR from 4% to 3.3%.

Take a stashe of 1M, for instance.  The government is going to be taking $7,000 every year from that stashe. To keep at the 4%, that leaves you with only $33k, instead of what a non wealth taxed country's safe withdrawal of $40k.  That hurts a lot.

My (tax funded) state pension will be somewhere around $50 000 (66% of last paycheck). I'm OK with that $7000 loss.

The .7% wealth tax is in Norway. And as far as I'm concerned, the government isn't taking anything. The taxes I pay is paying for my use of schools, hospitals, roads, unemployment benefits, paid sick leave, etc. The wealth tax is just to make sure everyone pays (roughly) a fair share.

Your primary recidence has a high deductible. The first $5000-10000 of income are not taxed. There is some weird tax deduction thing on dividends, but I don't agree with it so I choose not to claim it.

I once calculated the value of everything my household had gotten because of the welfare state (education, health related, unemployment pay, etc). If I pay plenty of tax until I'm 70, I might be able to pay it back. But then we get pensions, and are back in the red.

I'm not trying to make a debate over the merits of taxation/welfare state just trying to have an objective conversation about the impacts of a 0.7% wealth tax and how that can't be understated.  When I say the government is "taking" it's not in the "Keep your ruttin hands off my money!" sense, it's just in a "Hey, this has a large impact on FIRE that can't be ignored" sense.

And even if you get a sizable pension at 70, you're still going to have many years between now and then that needed to be planned for.  Someone above threw out a 16x multiplier (Not sure which country) (or a 6.25% SWR) which would scare me a whole lot when you're having to look at wealth tax and/or taxable growth.  It also seems that one needs to account for large amounts of taxes in ER where Americans will have relatively low tax burdens in ER.

I'd also make sure to understand exactly how the pension works in your country.  The Dutch pension, for instance, doesn't seem very favorable to early retirees as you only get 2% times number of years so if you've only worked for 10 to 20 years that won't result in too much income on the back end. 

I'm just trying to help out the OP with his calculations on what he (and other Northern Europeans) needs, not turn this into a heated political debate.

Chuck

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 407
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2015, 12:43:04 PM »
In my opinion taxes are the least of the obstacles our overseas brothers and sisters face.

The biggest hurdle is there is no way to invest in equities in a tax deferred way. You're often roped into pension plans that won't do you any good until you're in your 50's. That's lame.

EricP

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #54 on: August 31, 2015, 01:01:48 PM »
In my opinion taxes are the least of the obstacles our overseas brothers and sisters face.

The biggest hurdle is there is no way to invest in equities in a tax deferred way. You're often roped into pension plans that won't do you any good until you're in your 50's. That's lame.

So... Taxes and Taxes?  Most of the pension plans are run by the state which I have a hard time as viewing as anything other than taxes.

eccdogg

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2015, 10:36:27 AM »
All annual capital gains from 0 - 7,692 USD will be taxed at 27%. Everything above will be taxed at 42%.

Not sure what the provision for carrying forward losses is, but in this tax enviroment it would be wise to invest in lower volatility investments.  Slow and steady gets taxed at a lower rate and perhaps you also dont get credit for your losses?

lemanfan

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1271
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #56 on: September 01, 2015, 11:40:39 AM »
Based on being a neighbour I would assume that it's only realized capital gains that is taxed that way - that is you pay the tax on the profit once you sell it.  The lesson is: Hang on to your stocks for decades, don't day trade. :)
 

Jesper

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • Location: Denmark
Re: Going for FI with the highest taxes in the world - Denmark
« Reply #57 on: September 01, 2015, 11:54:11 AM »
eccdog - You might be right. I've started to study up on all this stuff now - lots of reading material!

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!