Author Topic: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....  (Read 5112 times)

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 08:48:16 PM »
Do you guys doing your own repairs have an air wrench?   If not, what, may I ask, is your secret?

I wish.

PB Blaster was about as fancy as I got. :/

APowers

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 11:30:20 PM »
Do you guys doing your own repairs have an air wrench?   If not, what, may I ask, is your secret?

I wish.

PB Blaster was about as fancy as I got. :/

No air wrenches here, either. Mostly WD-40 and kind, gentle words at the fastener. Now, where did I leave my cheater pipe?


Rural

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2018, 07:27:15 AM »
No air wrench here. Just have to be patient with the stubborn ones so you don't break them applying too much force. Or rather my husband does. I go get either him or a pipe for a cheater (and then be careful).

rothwem

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2018, 07:28:36 AM »
I still remember trying to loosen the bolts on the water pump on my 79 chevrolet back in 1991.   I think that was the last non-electrical repair I did myself...

Do you guys doing your own repairs have an air wrench?   If not, what, may I ask, is your secret?

I have a 1/2" electric impact.  Its a game changer, especially on the suspension bits that BMWs seem to eat through.  It was a wedding present, and I wouldn't have bought it for myself, but after having one, I'm kicking myself for not getting one earlier.  There are so many situations on the cars I've worked on where you have a high torque bolt and there's just no room to fit a huge breaker bar but the compact head on the impact wrench will fit. 

This is the one I have:
https://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-WR18DBDL2-Brushless-Cordless-Batteries/dp/B01MUE6NLL



A couple tips for the electric impact:
-Get one with a half inch hog ring square drive.  The little 1/4" ones don't have enough torque yet, and the pin-release ones are kind of a pain to get the sockets off.  I've seen 3/8" drive models, but I've not seen 3/8" drive sockets anywhere, so that might be tricky.
-Get a impact WRENCH, not impact driver.  They're not the same thing, the driver doesn't work as well as the wrench but I don't know what the internal difference is that makes that a thing
-Wear eye protection, it makes all of the dirt shake loose when you use it. 
-Wear hear protection, its fucking loud.
-Never tighten anything with it.  If you have a really long bolt, you can start it by hand and then run it down with the wrench, but if you hear it "impacting", you're at risk of breaking the bolt off and that's not fun.


Prairie Stash

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2018, 07:36:24 AM »
Easy enough to facepunch.

You completely disregard posting any evidence that supports your hypothesis that you are saving money. As a broke scientist, you could post evidence for peer review to support your claims. However, you post anecdotal stories with no support and then try to say you proved something.

In other words, post your numbers for the past few years and then see if you're correct. How hard can it be for a scientist to use math to prove something?  ;)

I look forward to rescinding my facepunch when you prove your case, I'd like for you to be right. Until then, enjoy the facepunch.

kendallf

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2018, 07:50:16 AM »
I still remember trying to loosen the bolts on the water pump on my 79 chevrolet back in 1991.   I think that was the last non-electrical repair I did myself...

Do you guys doing your own repairs have an air wrench?   If not, what, may I ask, is your secret?

I have a 1/2" electric impact.

The electric impact guns and smaller drivers are totally replacing air tools these days.  I still have a big compressor for a few things but the air tool drawer is getting smaller.  For stubborn bolts, however, nothing will beat having appropriately sized breaker bars in some cases.  I have a couple that are about 3' long, and I will put a pipe on the end of them to get a 6' lever arm if necessary.

big_slacker

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »
Those 1/2" impact wrenches are very nice, but keep in mind we're talking $100-$200 or so unless you buy used. Back to the economics of the $500 beater that's a big spend over some wd40, a beer then a breaker bar. :D

rothwem

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2018, 08:28:22 AM »
Those 1/2" impact wrenches are very nice, but keep in mind we're talking $100-$200 or so unless you buy used. Back to the economics of the $500 beater that's a big spend over some wd40, a beer then a breaker bar. :D

No doubt.  I stubbornly resisted it for a while, because I'd never really had an issue with getting fasteners loose--I'm a young, strong macho man!  If I couldn't get it done, I just used a bigger cheater bar.  If it wasn't a wedding present, I probably wouldn't have gotten it for myself.  If I knew how awesome it was though, I would've been cruising craigslist looking for one of these a looong time ago. 

PC2K

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2018, 08:30:00 AM »
Tax, insurance, and inspection all cost money. It's cheaper for me to just have one car well-maintained car. The tax and insurance for an additional car a month is about the same as a rental for 2 days. So in the worse case, i just rent, but i do most things on a bicycle. I do fix easy things on my car and switch out summer/winter tires as such my self.

scottish

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2018, 06:16:19 PM »
Those 1/2" impact wrenches are very nice, but keep in mind we're talking $100-$200 or so unless you buy used. Back to the economics of the $500 beater that's a big spend over some wd40, a beer then a breaker bar. :D

Indeed.  But for those of us with $5000 cars, you can also save $200 in fees very quickly.   The electric driver looks much more appealing than getting a compressor and air tools.

I'm much more patient now that I was in 1990, so I'm pretty sure I didn't use WD40 and patience!   I remember using an impact driver - the old kind that you hit with a hammer.   In hindsight, I'm lucky I didn't damage the engine block.


TheAnonOne

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2018, 10:49:25 PM »
Ok, I'll bite.

You have 5 cars that are all between 300-3200 each from what I gather.

You have a garage that you built yourself apparently.

So your telling me, it was cheaper to build yourself a 5 car + garage including extra property taxes just so you can constantly spend your extra time fixing 5 cars?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//somewhat rant

I get this is your "way of life" which justifies everything, but if we are going to get into financial optimization I think your generally wrong. Moving into a city with higher paying jobs will cost you your ability to own 5 cars in the first place, basically negating this entire subject. If you are not moving into a city then you are commuting into a city which is enormously expensive as per MMM himself.

If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

In list form.
1. Bigger house- higher taxes + initial cost
2. Bigger land - higher taxes + initial cost
3. Five cars - Loss of time you could use earning
4. Five cars - required larger house, requiring moving away from large city with high incomes
5. Five cars - more parts for repair costs (maybe offset by lower initial cost-per-car?)

Unless you can justify the entire soup of things here, it simply isn't "Optimal" which is what this board is somewhat about. I don't fault you for this, its a hobby, I have my share of non-MMM hobbies too. Though I am not trying to justify them as financially optimal.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 10:58:49 PM by TheAnonOne »

big_slacker

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2018, 06:27:00 AM »
Those 1/2" impact wrenches are very nice, but keep in mind we're talking $100-$200 or so unless you buy used. Back to the economics of the $500 beater that's a big spend over some wd40, a beer then a breaker bar. :D

No doubt.  I stubbornly resisted it for a while, because I'd never really had an issue with getting fasteners loose--I'm a young, strong macho man!  If I couldn't get it done, I just used a bigger cheater bar.  If it wasn't a wedding present, I probably wouldn't have gotten it for myself.  If I knew how awesome it was though, I would've been cruising craigslist looking for one of these a looong time ago.

For sure, I'm 100% on board with those as a tool, wish they had em back in the day. That and youtube, I've saved so much time and needless work watching someone do a vid and they throw out some little tip like, "The haynes manual says do this, but just do this instead." Where was that 20 years ago??? :D

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #62 on: December 22, 2018, 09:41:02 AM »
If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

Not everyone likes cities, or can tolerate being in/around them.

APowers

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #63 on: December 22, 2018, 03:23:50 PM »
If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

Not everyone likes cities, or can tolerate being in/around them.

I live in a city, and had room for 2-3 cars in the parking areas for my apartment. Unless "city" only means the super high density/skyscraper zone generally clustered around the city center. I don't live there, and living 10 blocks from there would put me back into a lower-density zone with space to repair cars.

Cadman

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2018, 05:03:46 PM »
After living in the country 10+ years now, I could never go back to the city. Lower property taxes, exempt from city service fees, no inspections or prying eyes. We're surrounded by acres of prairie and not a neighbor in sight, and yet less than 10 minutes from town. My commute? 20 minutes and two stop lights to a Fortune 100 company.

big_slacker

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #65 on: December 24, 2018, 08:07:38 AM »
Ok, I'll bite.

You have 5 cars that are all between 300-3200 each from what I gather.

You have a garage that you built yourself apparently.

So your telling me, it was cheaper to build yourself a 5 car + garage including extra property taxes just so you can constantly spend your extra time fixing 5 cars?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//somewhat rant

I get this is your "way of life" which justifies everything, but if we are going to get into financial optimization I think your generally wrong. Moving into a city with higher paying jobs will cost you your ability to own 5 cars in the first place, basically negating this entire subject. If you are not moving into a city then you are commuting into a city which is enormously expensive as per MMM himself.

If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

In list form.
1. Bigger house- higher taxes + initial cost
2. Bigger land - higher taxes + initial cost
3. Five cars - Loss of time you could use earning
4. Five cars - required larger house, requiring moving away from large city with high incomes
5. Five cars - more parts for repair costs (maybe offset by lower initial cost-per-car?)

Unless you can justify the entire soup of things here, it simply isn't "Optimal" which is what this board is somewhat about. I don't fault you for this, its a hobby, I have my share of non-MMM hobbies too. Though I am not trying to justify them as financially optimal.

I'm not defending the 5 cars thing, but you've got some assumptions here that can be way off.

#1-2 ignores the fact that property outside the city is CHEAPER, not more expensive despite the size. I have a 2000 sq ft house on 1/2 acre, and equivalent house in the city would be $1.5M or so, and have proportionately higher property taxes. Your point is downsizing though, and yeah I could get a 2-3 bedroom condo in the city for the cost of my house but add in HOA fees and tax savings go bye bye.

#4 Isn't necessarily true either. Lots of examples of decent jobs outside big cities.

Cadman

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #66 on: December 24, 2018, 11:47:52 AM »
Ok, I'll bite.

You have 5 cars that are all between 300-3200 each from what I gather.

You have a garage that you built yourself apparently.

So your telling me, it was cheaper to build yourself a 5 car + garage including extra property taxes just so you can constantly spend your extra time fixing 5 cars?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//somewhat rant

I get this is your "way of life" which justifies everything, but if we are going to get into financial optimization I think your generally wrong. Moving into a city with higher paying jobs will cost you your ability to own 5 cars in the first place, basically negating this entire subject. If you are not moving into a city then you are commuting into a city which is enormously expensive as per MMM himself.

If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

In list form.
1. Bigger house- higher taxes + initial cost
2. Bigger land - higher taxes + initial cost
3. Five cars - Loss of time you could use earning
4. Five cars - required larger house, requiring moving away from large city with high incomes
5. Five cars - more parts for repair costs (maybe offset by lower initial cost-per-car?)

Unless you can justify the entire soup of things here, it simply isn't "Optimal" which is what this board is somewhat about. I don't fault you for this, its a hobby, I have my share of non-MMM hobbies too. Though I am not trying to justify them as financially optimal.

If I may....
#1. Same size house as in town + much more land. Taxes are actually cheaper being outside city limits.
#2. Land is taxed differently if zoned ag. The land surrounding my house generates passive income that more than covers taxes and utilities.
#3. I have more than 5 cars, but total time spent on wrenching is only a few hours per year. If a penny saved is a penny earned, then a routine maintenance brake job earns me >$400 for one hour of work. Even late model cars require such things occasionally.
#4. House is no larger. 10 minute drive puts me in the middle of 100,000 people.
#5. Amazon & Rockauto can put parts at my door in <48 hours, but there's no rush since I have more than one car. Also, I'm not driving rot boxes, basket cases or exotics. Parts are cheap and plentiful and I'm no longer at the mercy of a mechanic's schedule, aptitude or markup.

I make these points to show it can be economically viable to have a small fleet, and that even including tags and insurance, is still cheaper than people I know with 2 late model vehicles. But, this strategy isn't borne out of penny-pinching. It's because I enjoy driving a couple 60 year old cars in the summer, an economical hatchback for road trips, need plenty of enclosed cargo space for other hobbies (80's Suburban) and have the routine need for hauling scrap metal, building supplies, gravel and pushing snow with a plow (GMT-400).

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #67 on: December 24, 2018, 01:32:12 PM »
...and have the routine need for hauling scrap metal, building supplies, gravel and pushing snow with a plow (GMT-400).

I've just given up trying to convince non-rural types on this forum of the merits of having a truck that can do all the trucky things one might reasonably want to do.  No, driving into town, to load up a rental truck, to drive back to my place, to unload it, and then reversing the process isn't terribly useful, and said rental can't crawl around my hillside to collect tons of rocks either.

I've got a '97 F350 CCLB/Diesel/4WD that gets used for truck stuff.  I rarely drive it empty, though it's cheaper to run that a few extra miles than to have another spare vehicle.  I don't leave the property that often (WFS - Work From Shed), so conflict for the car is pretty rare - I can normally take a motorcycle, even in winter (Sidecar + 2WD).  I just don't like riding in the rain that much.

I fully intend that truck to last the rest of my life, and given the age of other equipment around here, it shouldn't be too hard to manage that.

What 60 year old stuff are you driving?  My wife's family does 90 year old stuff. :)

scottish

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #68 on: December 24, 2018, 06:02:58 PM »
There are definitely folks here that prefer to use a hatchback as a pickup truck.

I did this when I was younger.   It really beats up your car though.

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #69 on: December 24, 2018, 07:14:51 PM »
It also tends to rather spectacularly exceed gross vehicle weight rating.

APowers

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #70 on: December 24, 2018, 07:27:37 PM »
It also tends to rather spectacularly exceed gross vehicle weight rating.

Pretty sure just putting 5 large-but-not-obese people in my hatchback (yes, there are five seats/seatbelts) would exceed the GVWR....

big_slacker

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #71 on: December 24, 2018, 08:35:38 PM »
...and have the routine need for hauling scrap metal, building supplies, gravel and pushing snow with a plow (GMT-400).

I've just given up trying to convince non-rural types on this forum of the merits of having a truck that can do all the trucky things one might reasonably want to do.

I've noticed this too. Not everyone, but definitely some here cannot compute that trucks are good for doing truck stuff and someone might need to do those things often enough to warrant owning a truck. :)

TomTX

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #72 on: December 25, 2018, 09:55:30 AM »
...and have the routine need for hauling scrap metal, building supplies, gravel and pushing snow with a plow (GMT-400).

I've just given up trying to convince non-rural types on this forum of the merits of having a truck that can do all the trucky things one might reasonably want to do.  No, driving into town, to load up a rental truck, to drive back to my place, to unload it, and then reversing the process isn't terribly useful, and said rental can't crawl around my hillside to collect tons of rocks either.

I've got a '97 F350 CCLB/Diesel/4WD that gets used for truck stuff.  I rarely drive it empty, though it's cheaper to run that a few extra miles than to have another spare vehicle.  I don't leave the property that often (WFS - Work From Shed), so conflict for the car is pretty rare - I can normally take a motorcycle, even in winter (Sidecar + 2WD).  I just don't like riding in the rain that much.

I fully intend that truck to last the rest of my life, and given the age of other equipment around here, it shouldn't be too hard to manage that.

Owning an older truck that you use and maintain yourself (or later hack into a trailer ;) ) is a very rational choice for you.

It's just not the typical use case, if you go by "total number of trucks." Sure, it's very common in your low population, rural area for trucks to actually be used as trucks.
 
I live on the edge of Austin, and people using trucks for truck-type things are a minority. I suspect there are more trucks in the Austin MSA than many entire rural states.

The vast majority of the "vanity trucks" here seem to be oversized beasts, frequently jacked up with large tires and are kept in pristine condition - never used offroad or for hauling any more than I did in my Saturn. Lots of them used primarily as inefficient commuter cars. A few will tow a boat a couple days a year.

Are there work trucks here? Sure. Mostly business ones and a few private ones which look to get actual use - but they're the minority, and not a large percentage. More vans than trucks, except for the yard maintenance guys.

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #73 on: December 25, 2018, 06:58:28 PM »
Pretty sure just putting 5 large-but-not-obese people in my hatchback (yes, there are five seats/seatbelts) would exceed the GVWR....

So... probably not wise to do that.  Seatbelts doesn't mean you can just cram people in.

I suppose flying small planes, I'm a bit more aware of that, but... yeah.  Most passenger vehicles are pretty much at full gross with 4 adults, before you add cargo.

The vast majority of the "vanity trucks" here seem to be oversized beasts, frequently jacked up with large tires and are kept in pristine condition - never used offroad or for hauling any more than I did in my Saturn. Lots of them used primarily as inefficient commuter cars. A few will tow a boat a couple days a year.

There aren't too many of those out here.  I think the people who might be tempted to own them know that they're being laughed at by just about everyone (including other truck owners) if they have a jacked up pickup with stacks in the bed and no mud anywhere.

APowers

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #74 on: December 25, 2018, 08:34:42 PM »
Pretty sure just putting 5 large-but-not-obese people in my hatchback (yes, there are five seats/seatbelts) would exceed the GVWR....

So... probably not wise to do that.  Seatbelts doesn't mean you can just cram people in.

I can, and I will. Fortunately, I don't have any occasions to regularly overload my vehicles, but I'm not opposed to doing so once in a while (with care, of course, and much more attentive driving when doing so). Though I DO try to at least borrow a friend's F350 for hauling loads of concrete and such.

Rural

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #75 on: December 26, 2018, 06:28:00 AM »
Pretty sure just putting 5 large-but-not-obese people in my hatchback (yes, there are five seats/seatbelts) would exceed the GVWR....

So... probably not wise to do that.  Seatbelts doesn't mean you can just cram people in.

I can, and I will. Fortunately, I don't have any occasions to regularly overload my vehicles, but I'm not opposed to doing so once in a while (with care, of course, and much more attentive driving when doing so). Though I DO try to at least borrow a friend's F350 for hauling loads of concrete and such.


Just because it will go doesn't mean it will stop when you need it to.

thriftycanuck

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #76 on: December 26, 2018, 07:03:53 AM »
I kind of disagree with the amount of money people spend on their commuting cars.   I think they spend too much!  The key to spending less is having more and being educated and smart.

I currently own 5 cars.... they don't cost me much cash.  Besides the project car which will eventually come into the rolling door of commuters and I don't plan on spending more than 3000 dollars on that particular car over the course of say 2 years. 

If you have a commute especially if its longer than 15 miles, I highly urge everyone to learn mechanics.   Not just changing your oil.  Learn how to change a whole entire suspension.  Learn how to take out an engine.   Learn how to change gaskets, sensors, waterpumps ect.

It's funny.  I bought a stupid non-mustachian car in highschool.  A 1991 toyota MR2 turbo.   That car ended up SAVING me thousands of dollars because I learned how to work on it.


I think commuters should have at least 2 cars.  1 reliable old car that just chills or is used in snow/when your main commuter breaks down/needs repair.   1 Reliable car that gets great MPG and is no thrills basic to get to work and back, with no fancy features that will inevitably break.   And call me crazy but I think there should be a 3rd!!! car in the wings getting ready to take over for the next commuting vehicle. 

This method gives you the flexibility and time to always have a working car on the cheap.  If one breaks down you have another waiting in the wings, allowing you precious, STRESS FREE, no rush, time to get your car fixed and back on the road. 

Mechanics are modern day scam artists.   I hear some ridiculous stories from people.   In fact I am writing this today because I just heard one of my coworkers exclaim that his mechanic charged him 270 dollars to replace an oxygen sensor on his honda accord.    A job that should take about 20 minutes and the parts probably costs around 15 bucks.


Current Stable:

1993 Del Sol Si - On Jackstands almost ready to take on commuting duties
2008 Hyundai Accent - Main Commuter
2001 BMW 325iT -  Wont be buying another BMW unless its an e30.  They are a bare to work on.
1986 Toyota MR2 - Project Future Commuter
2004 Subaru Outback - Snow (i have to commute in all weather conditions due to job) and my pickuptruck (I own rentals/myhouse)

PS www.rockauto.com

junk yard is your friend


2004 outback-  I have replaced all the suspension on the outback.   I got it for 300 dollars.   It runs freaking excellent and has 225,000 miles on it.  I put 30,000 miles on it so far.   Cheap insurance.  I put around 1500 dollars into the suspension.  1800 dollar car.   


2008 Accent super reliable 36MPG my workhorse commuter.   I bought it with 50,000 miles on it for 3200 dollars.  I haven't done much work to it besides replacing the coilpacks, tires, a few sensors, filters and oil.  It now has 120,000 miles on it.

2001 BMW - Don't buy a BMW.  I finally got this running without a check engine light.  Drives excellent.  PITD to work on.  All rubber goes bad at or about 100k resulting in .  Bought it for  $2800 and put about $1000 into it.   My wife's car.  I thought I would build her something nice.

1993 Del Sol Si- currently replacing all suspension/streering components on this.   I got it for free by trading some vehicles around.  Non-running jeep v8 (gift from MIL) traded for a CRV which I traded for this del sol.   Car has 136,000 miles on it.  Gets 35MPG and will be the next commuter.   Just in my driveway on jackstands, runs great.  Getting ready to by the next workhorse.    I will sell the Hyundai for the same amount of money I bought it for when this gets on the road.  If I sell the Hyundai I guess you can say I made money on this?

1986 MR2- bought with a blown up engine that leaks oil like crazy.   Planning on putting in a new engine and replacing all suspension parts while I am driving the Del Sol Si.   When I am done with this car I will simply switch and sell the Del Sol.

I don't have the time or bandwidth to learn how to change a full suspension or replace an engine.  Would rather just hop on a bike.....

robartsd

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2018, 08:52:28 AM »
Just because it will go doesn't mean it will stop when you need it to.
Decrease speed, increase following distance, avoid steep grades (easy to do in my area - I'm sure there are areas where it would be impossible to plan a route that avoids taking the overloaded vehicle over grades that are too steep to traverse safely).

dignam

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2018, 10:05:41 AM »
I hear you OP.  I have two cars (and a bicycle).  One is a super cheap, easy to work on, salt and snow absorbing, daily driver that is great in the snow and for hauling things (mid 00's Jeep GC).  I don't have a long commute so mileage isn't that big of a deal.  If it breaks down, I couldn't care less as I have a backup and passable knowledge of working on cars.  My GF also uses the Jeep occasionally in really bad weather.  I still hold that this Jeep was one of the best cash purchases I've ever made.

Other is a '13 BMW 335 (*ducks from people throwing things at me*) that is my fun car/backup/non-crappy weather driver, so to speak. I know people rip on reliability with BMWs, but I have had ZERO issues with this thing; and I'm willing to put up with some because it is an absolutely wonderful car to drive.    BMWs can be just as reliable as other brands, but you MUST follow scheduled maintenance (so only buy former lease vehicles if buying used).  They are far less forgiving than say a Toyota when it comes to neglect.  And it was far less expensive than basically any new sedan as I bought it used.   

And then there's the good ol' bike for 3rd string backup (and exercise).

So, I get you OP!

GetItRight

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2018, 01:18:39 PM »
My fleet consists of 30+ year old vehicles. They are simple and reliable, the 60s really was the golden age for automotive technology and reliability. I will not own anything with electronic fuel injection or that requires computers or fancy electronics to run. I need my vehicles to just plain work and get me where I need to go. Maintenance is cheap and repairs are done on my schedule. In the past decade I've only had one incident that left me walking and that was the one electronic component on the vehicle that failed (electronic ignition rather than points, a luxury), hitchhiked home to get a spare, rode one of my motorcycles back, replaced it, and drove home. It was a fun adventure really. Normally when any repairs are needed there is plenty of advance warning so I can do it on my schedule.

I suspect I spend a fraction of what many here spend on a fancy modern econobox to have a whole fleet of 4 and two wheeled vehicles as well as a boat. I live in one of the most expensive states for insurance though, so most of my fleet of vehicle are motorcycles which are under $100/yr each for an agreed value policy with 300k uninsured/underinsured and no restrictions. For 4 wheeled vehicles that aren't commuters the cost is similar for an agreed value policy with restrictions on mileage and use. Only pay extortionate government collusion prices for one pickup I use as a commuter in colder weather and to tow the boat.

TomTX

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2018, 02:32:15 PM »
30+ year old vehicles have lots of advantages.

Just don't be in one when it is involved in a major crash. You are far more likely to die or be seriously injured when compared to a modernish car. Say, 10 years old.

Just Joe

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2019, 08:20:29 AM »
We have multiple cars too. Am working to get one back on the road soon so I can sell another. That'll leave us with two relatively modern vehicles. Then I want to work on my ~45 year old vehicle and once it is running (restored) I'll sell the other late model vehicle leaving us a fancy late model vehicle for out of town trips and the ancient vehicle for the rare occasions when we really need a second vehicle. Beyond that there is another even older car at our house that I want to restore and both the "oldies" will just be for fun or spares. My progress is so slow I'll prob be 90 yrs old before I get these projects done.

Right now my suburban garage suffers from garage Tetris. Its a modest size garage that has room for one vehicle and tools. Here lately to work on this I need to move that temporarily. And then back again at the end of the day. It kills the fun. DW and I have slowly been donating all sorts of things to empty the house out. It became too crowded with stuff when our kids were little.

Ultimately I want a detached garage so there is more room. Shop adventures are my hobby. The question is do we move to gain that space or build that space at the house we are in. It is a seller's market in our town right now. We could definitely make changes to our existing property cheaper than moving up in house.

I get where the OP is coming from. I still don't see how the numbers work out completely in his/her favor but I have done the same things with great results when I was younger and single. Buy something cheap with good bones, make all the repairs, drive it for a while, sell it, repeat. I generally could drive for free b/c the cars I was buying were so darn cheap. These days I'm sort of out of the loop so cheap cars are harder to come by. The ones that I see are often so cosmetically worn out or neglected I don't want to own them no matter the price.

TomTX

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2019, 05:27:41 AM »
Yes, my garage would be a lot more useful if it were just a few feet wider - it's barely a 2 car garage, meaning with shelving along the sides (not to mention the bikes...) I can't put 2 cars in there and still open the doors to get out!

brokescientist

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #83 on: January 04, 2019, 06:29:56 AM »


@brokescientist, have you considered getting a classic?  Your clearly handy, and a classic may actually increase in value over the years of ownership.  I guess the MR2 and del sol are classics.  Are they in nice shape or do they look like beaters?
[/quote]


The MR2 is a classic future backup  the del sol is a beater future daily :) 

brokescientist

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #84 on: January 04, 2019, 06:33:21 AM »
Easy enough to facepunch.

You completely disregard posting any evidence that supports your hypothesis that you are saving money. As a broke scientist, you could post evidence for peer review to support your claims. However, you post anecdotal stories with no support and then try to say you proved something.

In other words, post your numbers for the past few years and then see if you're correct. How hard can it be for a scientist to use math to prove something?  ;)

I look forward to rescinding my facepunch when you prove your case, I'd like for you to be right. Until then, enjoy the facepunch.

Challenge accepted.   

brokescientist

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #85 on: January 04, 2019, 07:00:03 AM »
Ok, I'll bite.

You have 5 cars that are all between 300-3200 each from what I gather.

You have a garage that you built yourself apparently.

So your telling me, it was cheaper to build yourself a 5 car + garage including extra property taxes just so you can constantly spend your extra time fixing 5 cars?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
//somewhat rant

I get this is your "way of life" which justifies everything, but if we are going to get into financial optimization I think your generally wrong. Moving into a city with higher paying jobs will cost you your ability to own 5 cars in the first place, basically negating this entire subject. If you are not moving into a city then you are commuting into a city which is enormously expensive as per MMM himself.

If you are NOT commuting into a city, you are probably shortchanging your income ability and thus, applying this LOSS of income to the cost of the cars it starts looking less and less appealing.

In list form.
1. Bigger house- higher taxes + initial cost
2. Bigger land - higher taxes + initial cost
3. Five cars - Loss of time you could use earning
4. Five cars - required larger house, requiring moving away from large city with high incomes
5. Five cars - more parts for repair costs (maybe offset by lower initial cost-per-car?)

Unless you can justify the entire soup of things here, it simply isn't "Optimal" which is what this board is somewhat about. I don't fault you for this, its a hobby, I have my share of non-MMM hobbies too. Though I am not trying to justify them as financially optimal.

  • I didn't build my garage myself and didn't have one built, and you can do all of this in a driveway, or a street if permitted.    I think you may be mixing up posters.  Who the devil puts a bunch of daily drivers in a 5 car garage anyways.  What a waste of money! :)

    A small driveway would do fine.
    People are overestimating the amount of tools you need.

    People are really over estimating the time I spend on maintenance.

    I am not spending more on parts than just driving 1 car,   I don't drive more just because I have more cars.  Same goes with the whole spending more time earning thing.  As far as I am concerned as well,   a penny saved is a penny earned.   Changing your brakes for 70 dollars instead of 400 dollars is pretty good for ~1-2 hours worth of work.  I'll take 300 dollars an hour.

    I don't keep my cars in my house, so I don't need a larger house :)

Wouldn't really consider it a hobby...  just something I learned to do because I am involved with cars as is everyone whom commutes or drives.  Which I think is a big MMM thing.  Learn do to stuff yourself.

I also think MMM definitely covered a lot of important topics regarding commuting that cannot be ignored.  Actually,  it is the sole reason I ended up here.  Generally imho, he took the most extreme case in commuting.  I would know,  I consider myself an expert on the topic and have spent many years doing the commute. My point is, it doesn't have to be and isn't at least for me as expensive as MMM makes it out to be.  Obviously,  living next door to work would be optimal.  Unfortunately,  in some cases it is not possible or against most lifestyle choices to live near work. Think of people that work at Prudential in Newark NJ (against all lifestyle choices) or living near a ridiculously HCOL cities with LCOL areas nearby city like DC.  Not everyone has the ability to live in Florida, or Raliegh - Durham, NC. 




brokescientist

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #86 on: January 04, 2019, 07:02:39 AM »
I hear you OP.  I have two cars (and a bicycle).  One is a super cheap, easy to work on, salt and snow absorbing, daily driver that is great in the snow and for hauling things (mid 00's Jeep GC).  I don't have a long commute so mileage isn't that big of a deal.  If it breaks down, I couldn't care less as I have a backup and passable knowledge of working on cars.  My GF also uses the Jeep occasionally in really bad weather.  I still hold that this Jeep was one of the best cash purchases I've ever made.

Other is a '13 BMW 335 (*ducks from people throwing things at me*) that is my fun car/backup/non-crappy weather driver, so to speak. I know people rip on reliability with BMWs, but I have had ZERO issues with this thing; and I'm willing to put up with some because it is an absolutely wonderful car to drive.    BMWs can be just as reliable as other brands, but you MUST follow scheduled maintenance (so only buy former lease vehicles if buying used).  They are far less forgiving than say a Toyota when it comes to neglect.  And it was far less expensive than basically any new sedan as I bought it used.   

And then there's the good ol' bike for 3rd string backup (and exercise).

So, I get you OP!

How many miles are on the BMW :)   Wait till you get to ~ 120k  :)

dignam

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #87 on: January 04, 2019, 12:46:53 PM »
I hear you OP.  I have two cars (and a bicycle).  One is a super cheap, easy to work on, salt and snow absorbing, daily driver that is great in the snow and for hauling things (mid 00's Jeep GC).  I don't have a long commute so mileage isn't that big of a deal.  If it breaks down, I couldn't care less as I have a backup and passable knowledge of working on cars.  My GF also uses the Jeep occasionally in really bad weather.  I still hold that this Jeep was one of the best cash purchases I've ever made.

Other is a '13 BMW 335 (*ducks from people throwing things at me*) that is my fun car/backup/non-crappy weather driver, so to speak. I know people rip on reliability with BMWs, but I have had ZERO issues with this thing; and I'm willing to put up with some because it is an absolutely wonderful car to drive.    BMWs can be just as reliable as other brands, but you MUST follow scheduled maintenance (so only buy former lease vehicles if buying used).  They are far less forgiving than say a Toyota when it comes to neglect.  And it was far less expensive than basically any new sedan as I bought it used.   

And then there's the good ol' bike for 3rd string backup (and exercise).

So, I get you OP!

How many miles are on the BMW :)   Wait till you get to ~ 120k  :)

47k :D The rate I'm driving it, only putting about 5k per year while the beater absorbs the crappy weather and stop and go miles.

EnjoyIt

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #88 on: January 07, 2019, 12:55:20 AM »
The problem with the German car's isn't the engine.  Its the electronics that simply start to fall apart after 10ish or so years.  On top of that, working on the cars always seems to require special tools designed to do a specific job on that engine.  German cars are frustrating cars to work on.

thurston howell iv

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #89 on: January 07, 2019, 08:31:03 AM »
Do you guys doing your own repairs have an air wrench?   If not, what, may I ask, is your secret?

I wish.

PB Blaster was about as fancy as I got. :/

No air wrenches here, either. Mostly WD-40 and kind, gentle words at the fastener. Now, where did I leave my cheater pipe?




Awesome meme. It is spot on!

Just to jump in a little, this topic always entertains me. I am down to just 5 cars as well. Just sold one. (Was up to 7 a while ago)  Now have 3 drivers, 1 toy, 1 project.  Yes, it sometimes is a hassle, but car guys and gals have it their blood.

As for the drivers, it's totally true what the broke scientist has stated.  I rotate drivers as necessary. I have a large SUV that usually stays parked unless I need to haul. Was driving it the other day when the alternator went bad. Parked it and ordered the part. Drove a different car. Simple.  It's nice to have a backup for just in case. It's nice to not have a car payment.

Cheap cars, cheap liability insurance- why pay more?

Learning to work on your own stuff is priceless.  We've saved a ton of money working on our cars. Heck, sometimes we just buy them to fix and flip. Only ever lost money on a Range Rover.  Other than that, inexpensive cars can be had all day long.

Since we've just moved to NoVA, my total "commute" is about 4 miles. I'd bike but these people here are insane drivers (it's scary enough in the car!) So, my wear and tear it down to almost nothing. Wife's commute will likely be only a few miles as well. Nevertheless, it's an interesting hobby to have IMO as it's very gratifying to save money and find out that what mechanics claimed was a complicated and expensive procedure was really a simple, inexpensive fix!


« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 08:41:34 AM by thurston howell iv »

Just Joe

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #90 on: January 07, 2019, 02:14:40 PM »
I did an alternator job recently on one of our daily drivers. Had I used a repair shop they would have charged me an hour and perhaps a diagnostic fee. Shops around here get $75+ an hour and the diagnostic fee might have been $50 by itself. Then parts markup since they are finding and fetching the part - so perhaps $150 for the part.

I did the job for $135. Total: 35 minutes. Four bolts. No specialized tools just sockets, a wrench, and a flat blade screwdriver. New alternator. Could have chosen the budget replacement for $65.

This is the pay off for having a long series of budget cars in my teens and 20s and learning to make repairs and owning a few tools. Did the work in my driveway on a rare warm day.

More recently helped our teen make a repair on their car. $35 vs $??? at the shop. Teen helped me with a different repair to our other daily driver. A couple hours to replace a gasket which was $25 or so. Shop time would hve been expensive because the task was complicated and awkward. We're rushing to get caught up on tasks I've been putting off before the real winter weather arrives. 

AlexMar

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #91 on: January 09, 2019, 05:45:32 AM »
...and have the routine need for hauling scrap metal, building supplies, gravel and pushing snow with a plow (GMT-400).

I've just given up trying to convince non-rural types on this forum of the merits of having a truck that can do all the trucky things one might reasonably want to do.  No, driving into town, to load up a rental truck, to drive back to my place, to unload it, and then reversing the process isn't terribly useful, and said rental can't crawl around my hillside to collect tons of rocks either.

I've got a '97 F350 CCLB/Diesel/4WD that gets used for truck stuff.  I rarely drive it empty, though it's cheaper to run that a few extra miles than to have another spare vehicle.  I don't leave the property that often (WFS - Work From Shed), so conflict for the car is pretty rare - I can normally take a motorcycle, even in winter (Sidecar + 2WD).  I just don't like riding in the rain that much.

I fully intend that truck to last the rest of my life, and given the age of other equipment around here, it shouldn't be too hard to manage that.

What 60 year old stuff are you driving?  My wife's family does 90 year old stuff. :)

While I wouldn't crawl around your hillside in your economical car.... I did learn a lot about this when I was spending time overseas.  In Denmark, there are virtually no trucks.  No rental trucks, either.  But nearly every single car on the road has a hitch.  They just pop on a little trailer and do all the "truck stuff" easy as can be.  If you don't have your own trailer, neighbor might, or renting a trailer is crazy cheap and quick.

I have a truck, I am not getting rid of it, but there are WAY better mustachian ways to do the truck thing to be sure.

And by the way, my family there is as rural as can be.  They have a farm.  Anything they do on the farm, they use a tractor as you would expect.  They have absolutely no need for a truck.

Syonyk

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2019, 08:20:39 AM »
How does stuff get to/from their farm?

The problem with trailers on cars, at least for me, is that the trailers I have easy access to are typically heavy enough that I wouldn't want to tow them behind a car anyway - empty.  The flatbed is... eh, I'd be stunned if it's less than 3k lbs empty - solid thing.  The car hauler is at least a ton empty.  My trash trailer is a lot lighter, but doesn't move very often.  I could tow that with a moderately sized car, if I really wanted, but it'd be hard on the car and I'd likely get stuck at the dump depending on the time of year (if it's been dry for a long time, their trailer dump area turns into a powdery sand a few inches deep).  A yard of gravel or dirt is 2500-3000 lbs, depending on the material, and I definitely wouldn't want to pull that behind a car with the trailer weights empty - anything that can realistically tow 5k+ lbs isn't really a small car.  If it's a larger load, I'll have one of the local gravel companies drop it off, but they tend to put it in a pile somewhere, and if I'm unloading myself, I can put it where I want.

I could use a trailer for some of the light-but-long stuff hauling I use the truck for (a few sheets of plywood, bunch of 10' lumber, furniture, etc), but I'd still have to actually get a trailer that the car could tow, and it wouldn't save me money on that many of the trips I make.

On the flip side, having a truck to handle the big stuff means we can optimize pretty hard on the car side of things.  We've got a Volt that covers most daily driving on electric, while still having the range for longer trips.

WranglerBowman

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2019, 12:00:23 PM »
These posts are always fun to read because it's pretty easy to tell the city slickers and the cowboys...and I think both are correct with what they post but it's all in how you use whatever you drive/ride.  I have 4 vehicles, but no 2 vehicles serve the same purpose, you can't tow an 8k lb tractor with a Honda Accord.  I get mileage reimbursement from work and that typically pays for taxes, tags, insurance, and in most years any and all parts I need to keep the fleet going.  My mileage machine is a 95 Honda Accord Wagon, which I've posted about before, and I typically put 15-20k miles a year on that, get 32-34 mpg, parts are dirt cheap, it's pretty easy to work on...the car literally pays me to drive it.  The other 3 vehicles combined get less than 5k miles a year so there's isn't a lot that needs to be maintained.  I do all of my own work and that's key to being able to justify more than 1or2 cars to me.  My F350, diesel, dually, crew cab is only used to haul stuff, and I'm not talking a rocking chair.  Whenever I'm using that truck it's moving 3 CY's of dirt, towing a tractor, moving cords of firewood and logs to be sold at the mill etc...  The F350 is only used to make money or save money. 

I also regularly bike for exercise and if I have time and where I need to go isn't too far I'll bike, so I get both sides of the arguments.  Neighbors, friends, family, all think I'm wasting tons of money on vehicles each year and don't get why I need 4, but why not if they're not costing me anything, provide a ton of convenience, are easy and cheap to work on, and have the ability to make money for me whenever I want them to.

Just Joe

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Re: Go ahead - Try and FacePunch Me I Have 5! cars....
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2019, 09:03:46 AM »
There is a difference in the equipment that Europe relies on and what we Americans rely on. Background: I lived in Italy for several years.

Europe: everything about owning a vehicle is expensive. Most of the people I knew tried to take a frugal approach. Thus cars and when necessary trailers.

I have one of these European trailers here in the USA. It weighs ~300 lbs wet. It carries a bit over half a ton although it is happiest carrying less than that. Perfect tow for a four cylinder car. Stands up in the garage along the wall. Does 98% of the tasks I need a trailer for.

For examples look up Brenderup UK. Brenderup even sells a horse trailer suited for towing with a station wagon like a Volvo.

If I needed to move tractors or bulldozers obviously I would need a different tow vehicle and trailer. When I rent one this spring, the rental company will deliver.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 08:04:38 AM by Just Joe »