Getting Divorced and Losing Motivation to Save

[frugal rph]

After almost a year being separated, hubby moving 12 hours away, and me giving birth to our second child 2 months ago, I've given up on my marriage and realize it's time to get a divorce. I'm going to lose half of my/our net worth and pretty much raise 2 kids by myself.  I no longer have any motivation to save much because I don't think FIRE is a very realistic goal for many years now.  I will still have retirement savings that I can just let grow for 20 or so years. Before MMM, retiring before 60 would have seemed great, but it seems pretty blah when I thought I only had 5 more years. I hadn't planned on baby (5 years of secondary infertility) or divorce.  Has anyone else completely lost their motivation, and if so, did it ever come back?

[h2ogal]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.   Please dont give up hope on your dreams though.  You never know what life may bring you, and in the end this may turn out for the best. 

I understand why you may not want to save right now, with your divorce coming up, but there are definitely some financial preparations to make.  You should talk to your lawyer as soon as possible, before announcing your intentions if possible.

DH and I have had many financial ups and downs in our life from business closures to job losses to new careers and new business startups.   The only thing you can really predict is that things do change.  And more than half the time they seem to change for the better. 

I hope everything turns out positively for you in the end.

[prudence]

Sorry you are dealing with this. I got divorced about 8 years ago now, and have been raising my 2 children on my own since.  I thought it would be very difficult and sometimes it was, but I also was able to really get my finances under control. Every year got better, at first I had huge mortgage and child care payments. But I downsized my house and eventually the kids didnt need daycare anymore and that was a huge relief financially. I have found each years gets better and I have managed to get halfway to my retirement goals. The money you have already put away will continue to grow and work for you and that should give you some motivation. It will get better, I promise. Find another single mom that you can trade child care duties with occasionally so you can have a break. Above all take care of yourself right now, your motivation will come back eventually.

[SingleMomDebt]

have been raising my 2 children on my own since.  I thought it would be very difficult and sometimes it was, but I also was able to really get my finances under control.

+1 - been doing the same. I may or may not FIRE, but my finances in a very decent place. At the same time I went through a divorce, ex moved 6hrs away, son passed away, mom disowned me, etc...).

You're in a funk, but no reason to give up. Your goals just differ for the time being. There is the future of change that can put FIRE back as a reality. But for now, learn to embrace and/or gain the financial control that allows one to have fun with kids while they are growing up.

[Spork]

First off: I'm sorry.  Been there, done that (minus the kids).  My post divorce funk was pretty bad.  It gets better.

I think after any traumatic life altering event (divorce, death, etc)... you shouldn't make big life changing decisions for a while.  Take a breather for a few months.  Don't do anything too spendy or stupid, but cut yourself a break and don't over think it in the short term.  Think about it in 6 months or more when your head is clearer.  You might have a totally different outlook by then.

[Bajadoc]

Sadly, a lawyer is necessary. Do the best you can for you and your child. You are young and healthy and God willing your baby will be also. Your future is unlimited. Be positive and focus on what is best for your child. Human beings have a great capacity to endure hardship and emotional pain and thrive. Slowly and methodically work to build a rewarding and prosperous life. It can be done and you CAN do it!

[forward]

have been raising my 2 children on my own since.  I thought it would be very difficult and sometimes it was, but I also was able to really get my finances under control.

+1 - been doing the same. I may or may not FIRE, but my finances in a very decent place. At the same time I went through a divorce, ex moved 6hrs away, son passed away, mom disowned me, etc...).

You're in a funk, but no reason to give up. Your goals just differ for the time being. There is the future of change that can put FIRE back as a reality. But for now, learn to embrace and/or gain the financial control that allows one to have fun with kids while they are growing up.

Just want to echo this and other similar things that have been said.  You are in a really difficult place right now, its okay to feel frustrated and let down.  It will get better but it will take time.  Similar events have  happened to me and I am just now, 15 years later, beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

The best decisions you can make are the simple ones; be frugal, don't go in to debt, don't touch your retirement savings, make smart money decisions, invest what you can, have a cheap reliable car, come here for support etc. 

Just keep doing those things, it will get better slowly.

[Gray Matter]

After almost a year being separated, hubby moving 12 hours away, and me giving birth to our second child 2 months ago, I've given up on my marriage and realize it's time to get a divorce. I'm going to lose half of my/our net worth and pretty much raise 2 kids by myself.  I no longer have any motivation to save much because I don't think FIRE is a very realistic goal for many years now.  I will still have retirement savings that I can just let grow for 20 or so years. Before MMM, retiring before 60 would have seemed great, but it seems pretty blah when I thought I only had 5 more years. I hadn't planned on baby (5 years of secondary infertility) or divorce.  Has anyone else completely lost their motivation, and if so, did it ever come back?

I've never been in your shoes marriage/divorce-wise, but I have been post-partum twice and post-adoption once and at 2 months, I wasn't motivated to do anything other than hang on the last vestiges of my sanity.  Having a new baby is extremely challenging, and doing it on your own while contemplating divorce...I can only imagine.

You will feel better.  In a few months or a few years, even, but you will find the energy to devote to something more than getting through the day.  Hang in there and, while you don't have to hunker down and work toward early retirement, don't make any major decisions that would prolong it should you find yourself wanting to focus on it again. 

[Argyle]

I agree that you need to just hunker down and weather the changes and get back on your feet slowly, not spending extravagantly, of course, but without feeling the need to forecast the next twenty years yet.

The overall picture is that being a single parent makes it better than ever to have financial flexibility.  Stashing away a good stash and living well within your income means that you won't have to be terrified about losing your job, or have to put up with a bully boss or terrible conditions.  That's an important kind of freedom. 

I hope you have a lawyer who will help make sure you get fair child support and a situation that will ease the difficulties.  I know some divorcing people who have said, "I don't care what I get, he/she can have it all, I just want to be done with it," and who have come to regret it down the line.  I'm not recommending being rapacious, just to make sure that things are fair and that the child support is in place. 

Hang in there, and give yourself time.

[EAL]

After almost a year being separated, hubby moving 12 hours away, and me giving birth to our second child 2 months ago, I've given up on my marriage and realize it's time to get a divorce. I'm going to lose half of my/our net worth and pretty much raise 2 kids by myself.  I no longer have any motivation to save much because I don't think FIRE is a very realistic goal for many years now.  I will still have retirement savings that I can just let grow for 20 or so years. Before MMM, retiring before 60 would have seemed great, but it seems pretty blah when I thought I only had 5 more years. I hadn't planned on baby (5 years of secondary infertility) or divorce.  Has anyone else completely lost their motivation, and if so, did it ever come back?

I'm sorry about what you are going through right now.  Remember, that the comfort of financial stability will always be a great asset.  Even with all of your concerns, imagine if money was a concern on top off that too.  Now although you may not be able to be able to retire as early as you'd like, maybe early retirement isn't the only goal. Isn't it the stress free life that comes with responsible financial planning that is the true value? Keep along your path! If not for you then for your children and for their future and educations!

[Kris]

First off: I'm sorry.  Been there, done that (minus the kids).  My post divorce funk was pretty bad.  It gets better.

I think after any traumatic life altering event (divorce, death, etc)... you shouldn't make big life changing decisions for a while.  Take a breather for a few months.  Don't do anything too spendy or stupid, but cut yourself a break and don't over think it in the short term.  Think about it in 6 months or more when your head is clearer.  You might have a totally different outlook by then.

I second this.  Also been there.

Yes, the discouragement and loss of motivation are real.  And completely normal.  For now, give yourself a break from thinking that long-term.  Just focus on getting done what needs to be done over the next year or so.  That's going to be work enough.  A year from now, things will look slightly different, slightly better, and you'll have a better sense of what your medium-term life will look like going forward.  But even then, you probably won't be in a place yet to think about FIRE or even retirement.  Two years from now, give or take, you'll be in a better place, and you'll be able to sit back, take stock of your life, and start working out your long term goals.

Hugs.  It really does get better.  And I even will venture to say, a LOT better.  I think most people who haven't been divorced would not understand a statement like this, but divorce was the second-best thing that ever happened to me (after meeting my current spouse).  It just didn't feel like it right at first.

[Le Poisson]

As someone who has been through 2 divorces, you are on the edge of a great time. I thoroughly recommend dumping excess weight and building on your own.

Now here's the thing, your net worth is still 100% of what it was. The reason being that you are now responsible for 100% of the cash you have in hand. He can never come and say he wants his share (whatever that is) and can't ever control you with money. You are as free as it gets.

Both times I went through divorce, my financials took a beating through the process, but after the papers were signed and the ex was gone, I immediately saw a very remarkable increase in savings power, and a (insert self glee) rush at how much power I had to steer my own ship - even if it was just rebalancing or reassigning savings.

Embrace this time, look ahead, and realize your goals can be the same, its only the path that has to be adjusted.

[fartface]

Hmmmm....you sound defeated...and I would be flaming ANGRY.

He puts a 12 hour separation between you and the kids and now gets to walk away? Hell no.

Get mad sister, starting with a good lawyer. I'd not only demand the 25% of his income you're entitled to, I'd make the jackass commit to custody arrangements. He should be flying in to see these kids at least once per month and fathering them. This gives you one weekend a month to find a new man!

Pick yourself up sister, brush yourself off, and hold HIM accountable. Don't let him off easy. You and your children deserve better!

[Sofa King]

This can be a helpful place:   WWW.DIVORCESUPPORT.COM

[southern granny]

I'm so sorry for what you have been through.  It sounds like you deserve better.  I can't imagine a man that can walk away from a pregnant wife and then move away from his children.  Make the SOB pay what he owes... and then some.

[frugal rph]

Thanks so much to everyone for the kind words and encouragement.  I think that when the dust settles, my life will be better in every way except financially.  After being so unhappy for so long, I feel that a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.  I used to wish upon the first star of the evening for a happy family (yes I really did this).  Now I have it just 1 of the members is a baby rather than a husband.

To the posters who recommended I consult lawyers and get child support, I did and the news was not very good. I only work part-time and want to continue that but my STBX can ask that my income be calculated as full-time for alimony and child support considerations. Under these conditions I would earn about double what he makes and could owe HIM more alimony than he would owe me child support.  I couldn't believe this but I've consulted 3 lawyers and they all agree. My best hope is to split everything 50/50 and tell him to have a nice life.

Fartface, I wish I could force him to visit once a month and take the kids, but you can't make someone visit their children.  He actually does visit about once a month but he doesn't even take my 7 year old overnight because he is too tired from the trip here.

EAL, you are right that this would be so much worse if I had no financial cushion.  I can't imagine being constantly worried about money on top of everything else. I have only 1 friend in realife who knows about my FIRE goals, so she is the only 1 I can talk to about this. Everyone else I know who has gotten divorced is fighting over who has to pay off all the debts.  They assume I'm in the same boat and I don't correct them.

Chippewa, I can't imagine losing a child and I admire your strength in getting through it.

[Gin1984]

Thanks so much to everyone for the kind words and encouragement.  I think that when the dust settles, my life will be better in every way except financially.  After being so unhappy for so long, I feel that a great weight has been lifted off my shoulders.  I used to wish upon the first star of the evening for a happy family (yes I really did this).  Now I have it just 1 of the members is a baby rather than a husband.

To the posters who recommended I consult lawyers and get child support, I did and the news was not very good. I only work part-time and want to continue that but my STBX can ask that my income be calculated as full-time for alimony and child support considerations. Under these conditions I would earn about double what he makes and could owe HIM more alimony than he would owe me child support.  I couldn't believe this but I've consulted 3 lawyers and they all agree. My best hope is to split everything 50/50 and tell him to have a nice life.

Fartface, I wish I could force him to visit once a month and take the kids, but you can't make someone visit their children.  He actually does visit about once a month but he doesn't even take my 7 year old overnight because he is too tired from the trip here.

EAL, you are right that this would be so much worse if I had no financial cushion.  I can't imagine being constantly worried about money on top of everything else. I have only 1 friend in realife who knows about my FIRE goals, so she is the only 1 I can talk to about this. Everyone else I know who has gotten divorced is fighting over who has to pay off all the debts.  They assume I'm in the same boat and I don't correct them.

Chippewa, I can't imagine losing a child and I admire your strength in getting through it.

Does not the medical issues (giving birth) and that he abandoned you and your child matter?  I would not be going for 50/50, he has shown an unwillingness to father his child, he should not get her 50% of the time. 

[The_path_less_taken]

Sadly, a lawyer is necessary. Do the best you can for you and your child. You are young and healthy and God willing your baby will be also. Your future is unlimited. Be positive and focus on what is best for your child. Human beings have a great capacity to endure hardship and emotional pain and thrive. Slowly and methodically work to build a rewarding and prosperous life. It can be done and you CAN do it!

1+

I'm so sorry this is happening to you. But...I agree with Bajadoc that you need a lawyer.

And...when my entire life was in the toilet to the point where I didn't clean any guns...because it would have been too tempting.... a friend brought me a framed picture for my living room.

It reads: "No storm lasts forever.", by Tao Te Ching.

It truly WILL get better. You WILL figure out $$ and childcare and whatever you have to: because you already know what  your goal is: FIRE and a great life for your children.

Sometimes, that means that the sperm donor has to hit the road. Really....he doesn't deserve you or the kids, if he's too "tired" to interact with his child. (IMHO)

Please keep us posted. We care.

If you ever need to just scream/curse/throw things and want someone to listen, PM me. I generally work days, sometimes until 7pm Pacific time.

[frugal rph]

Gin1984, the 50/50 split is of our assets. He has no interest in 50/50 custody and could not have it even if he wanted to and lived locally. He is a pilot and is gone or on call almost all the time. One of our many issues was how stressful his job is for relatively low pay.

[Gin1984]

Gin1984, the 50/50 split is of our assets. He has no interest in 50/50 custody and could not have it even if he wanted to and lived locally. He is a pilot and is gone or on call almost all the time. One of our many issues was how stressful his job is for relatively low pay.

Make sure you include, if your state allows, cost of child care, if you go back to work full time in child support.  You may need to find the meanest divorce lawyer because based on my limited knowledge, what your lawyers said does not make sense.  Most states only allow Alimony for a limited time when the salary was nothing OR much lower than the other persons, to allow the person to get training and get a better job, if you can show unwillingness to get another higher paying job, you could technically use the same law against him that they are using for part-time to full.  Also, how long have you been part time?  Keep in mind, kids can be an advantage when determining work level requirements for the judge, depending on the state.  Given that alimony is limited and child support can go though college in some cases, you might want to fight.  Alimony and child support (including daycare) may cancel themselves out but alimony ends before child support. Again, you need a meaner lawyer.

[Argyle]

I am also surprised that the courts are letting your ex move away.  In two cases I know, when the non-custodial parent wanted to move away, the courts forbade it.  The non-custodial parent had to get the permission of the custodial parent.  That could be a useful bargaining chip right there.  If he's going to move away so that he can't share in the childcare, there should be some compensation so you are not the only one with the burden of taking care of the children 24/7.

[Zamboni]

Hi Frugal rph, I'm sorry to read about all of this happening to you.  (-Hugs-)

Please be sure to take care of yourself each day. Some days will be a drag, but you will get through.

I agree with posters who said not to make any big moves right now if you can help it.  Focus on caring for your little ones for at least a few months until the baby is sleeping reliably and you have some sanity back. Give yourself that time to reach equilibrium.

Once that time to settle yourself from the new baby has passed, then if divorce is imminent, get the best lawyer you can find. It sounds like your financial situation is not nearly as bad as it is for most divorcing people, but you still want to have things cleanly separated in a legal document so you can figure out where you are once the dust settles and start fresh.

Honestly alimony would be surprising to me in this situation. He has a career. To put it in perspective, my ex-spouse makes 4x what I make and we did not end up agreeing to any alimony, only child support. Yes, technically whichever spouse makes less could ask for alimony, but it is probably not awarded very often in cases where the person has a decent job.  Disclaimer: not a lawyer here and surely the law on alimony varies by state.

[frugal rph]

You all have inspired me to consult this baracuda lawyer I have been avoiding because I didn't want to go there.  Thank you. I think I need to get a little mad for awhile.

[Zamboni]

:-) that sounds like a good plan.

I've heard it said that 5 years after divorce most men have plenty of money but not enough time with their children, while most women have not enough money but plenty of time with their children. Historically that has probably been true. It sounds like you might end up with plenty of money and plenty of time with the children. That's a pretty good place to be sitting.

You are working part time because a) you have an infant and all of the child care is falling all on you and b) you are in a profession where you can make a decent buck part time. Every court will understand that child care aspect, so I don't think you should worry about being forced to go full time. Very few divorces end up actually being settled in court, by the way. As far as I can tell, mostly the lawyers just play a game of chicken and paper chase and use up client money for awhile, then they get tired of it and either both parties sign or they arrange for a third lawyer to mediate and it gets done in one day at that point. One book that was helpful for me when going through the process was called Getting Divorced without Ruining your Life.

You do want the children to have a positive relationship with their Dad if at all possible, of course. He needs to step up with the plate and spend every ounce of spare time he has with them.  Mom's House Dad's House was the best book I found for thinking about that.

Oh, and here's an idea: start saving a stash of cash.  Get it slowly as cash back by paying with your debit card whenever you shop for groceries/diapers because that's pretty much impossible for him (or lawyers) to track that as a cash withdrawal.  Not that you are trying to rip the guy off, but that is a way you can now save without having to give half of what you scrimp together to this deadbeat when the paperwork is signed.  Since that was in the title of your thread, I hope that helps with your motivation!

Good luck with everything.

[Le Poisson]

Zamboni's advice is good. One thing I would suggest is sitting down with him (Skype?) and setting ground rules from the get-go. Why is he really leaving, what does he hope to get out of the divorce, where is this leaving you, how do the kids play into each of your lives, what expectations does he have of single life, etc. If you guys can have a reasonable conversation, and record your common ground, the lawyers will have fewer wedges to insert and drive up costs. Depending on your lawyer, their motivation may come from the billing cycle more than resolution of your problems. Treat this like a business discussion, and stay away from talking in circles or getting into he-said-she-said discussions while paying hundreds of dollars an hour.

In the lawyer's office, set out your goals and your husband's goals and ask if there is a previous divorce that could be used as a template. If you can grab another couple's agreement that is already drafted and just change the names, you are well on your way without having to start from nothing. If you want a lawyer to start from scratch, then get ready to pay out the nose. If the lawyer comes back with a line about every situation is unique and you are special, tell him you aren't interested in that level of service.

BTW - happy Mother's day. This will be a rough one. Find someone to spend it with.

[MidWestLove]

"If you guys can have a reasonable conversation, and record your common ground, the lawyers will have fewer wedges to insert and drive up costs. "

+1 lookup collaborative divorce (still lawyers , slightly different process). Also recommend looking up local DFP - divorce financial planners, a certified specialists specifically to focus on modeling/ analysis of assets, pensions, etc. DFPs are not lawyers and lawyers are _not_ financial planners (especially in very specific state). I would not get financial advice from lawyer in these situations as  the costs of getting this 'wrong' could be very significant.

also +1 for next sentence in the response. I understand desire to 'get mad' but think carefully of what you are actually accomplishing here and focus on your life and your needs (including children). Getting "mad", 'getting even' and turning adversarial may or may not be smart thing to do , no matter how temping it may be at some moment. it is ok to acknowledge very powerful emotions , ups and downs you are going through, absolutely ok to see support and help (including medical if needed) - not always in your interest to act based on such emotions

just $0.02

[Spork]

also +1 for next sentence in the response. I understand desire to 'get mad' but think carefully of what you are actually accomplishing here and focus on your life and your needs (including children). Getting "mad", 'getting even' and turning adversarial may or may not be smart thing to do , no matter how temping it may be at some moment. it is ok to acknowledge very powerful emotions , ups and downs you are going through, absolutely ok to see support and help (including medical if needed) - not always in your interest to act based on such emotions

+1 on this as well...  Getting mad is normal and probably (short term) helps.  Mid term and long term: it doesn't.

I've known a crapton of people that are still mad at their ex's 10+ years after they've gone.  Your goal here (eventually) is to feel apathy.  When you get there, you're back in charge of yourself.

[NICE!]

Hmmmm....you sound defeated...and I would be flaming ANGRY.

He puts a 12 hour separation between you and the kids and now gets to walk away? Hell no.

Get mad sister, starting with a good lawyer. I'd not only demand the 25% of his income you're entitled to, I'd make the jackass commit to custody arrangements. He should be flying in to see these kids at least once per month and fathering them. This gives you one weekend a month to find a new man!

Pick yourself up sister, brush yourself off, and hold HIM accountable. Don't let him off easy. You and your children deserve better!

WTH? You don't know the situation. Your animosity towards her spouse is unwarranted.

OP, I'm sorry you have to go through this. It really sucks. Don't worry about FIRE right now. I'm sure you'll figure that out in due time. At least you're on solid financial footing and not worrying about putting a roof over your family's head.

[couponvan]

:-) that sounds like a good plan.

Oh, and here's an idea: start saving a stash of cash.  Get it slowly as cash back by paying with your debit card whenever you shop for groceries/diapers because that's pretty much impossible for him (or lawyers) to track that as a cash withdrawal.  Not that you are trying to rip the guy off, but that is a way you can now save without having to give half of what you scrimp together to this deadbeat when the paperwork is signed.  Since that was in the title of your thread, I hope that helps with your motivation!

Good luck with everything.

This -

So sorry to hear about what you are going through.

Every time you go to the store you could also add on a $25-$50 gift card for later. If a receipt ever gets looked at it's a lot easier to say it was for a bday gift rather than a cash withdrawal.  Stash up grocery cards, clothing cards, gas cards, you name it.  I have a friend whose pilot husband left her and took everything. She was a SAHM, and ended up living in our basement with her DD for a time until her family could help out and get her set up in an apartment.  She literally had no money for groceries.  After that I have always made sure I had access to $ and it's taken about 5 years for me to stop front loading 5-6 months of grocery/clothing/gas expense on gift cards.

Costco also returns purchases for cash...."Oh honey, you don't like those ugly pants I bought you? I'll just return them." Or , "Bought two pairs of the jeans to see which one fit. I'll just return the other pair." Costco and Target - no one ever questions spending there.

I wasn't even contemplating divorce with my DH, but I have a stash now.  It just was shocking to see how a marriage I thought was good could go bad so quickly. SAHM/W is a hard job to find a replacement for.  I'm glad you work PT and can at least access some paycheck amounts. Also if STBX has pensions in his job, or good benefits make sure those are weighted.  Pilots often have good union benefits.

If you are close to the 10 year marriage mark for SS you might want to consider holding out a bit. Since you are working PT now someday it might make sense to claim on his benefits. Since you mentioned a 5 yr period between kids I figure you might be close.  Since he isn't close by even a few more months to stash cash and make those numbers might be worth the extra stress.

[Pooja Sharma]

I no longer have any motivation to save much because I don't think FIRE is a very realistic goal for many years now.

If Your not anymore motivated how your gonna raise your children's?
I am sorry this is happening to you but don't feel so low. Be an independent woman. You know you could anything, you just need sometime to relax and move on and then you'll be back on your track again.

All the best for your new life.

[Kimbl]

I too got divorced when my children were young (3 and 5) about 5 years.  The only reason it wasn't sooner was because I was exhausted and afraid to be a single mother.  Financially it was not good for me at all.  My ex was/is the primary breadwinner.  I do not live in a 50/50 state so every item was a debate and I am nowhere near as aggressive in these situations as my ex.  I wanted out and if he hadn't been as abrasive as he was he probably could have got a lot more just to get it over with but he pissed off me, my lawyer and the mediator so I did stick in my heels a little.

I am doing ok and may still retire "early" (under 60) at the rate I am going.  I was the one who paid the bills and managed our investments.  I was the conservative one.  He ended up marrying again to someone just like him maybe worse and I doubt very much that he will retire early.   

Oh, and the year before the divorce I did start taking out a little extra cash when I went grocery shopping.  It did not add up to much but allowed me to go out for a cup of coffee or take the kids for ice cream or something else small without feeling too guilty those first couple of years before I sold the house and was barely breaking even.

So, although I took a big set back financially, mentally it was all win for me.  Several other married mothers I know are also not in good marriages but are afraid to leave or if they even should.  In all cases the husband is the major breadwinner and they either quite working to be SAHM or have careers that make significantly less than their spouses.  And none of them know too much about finances.  My only advice is for them to educate themselves just in case.   When you feel powerless or unequal,  it is difficult to know the difference between staying for love or for dependency.

Good luck to you.  And please take it easy on yourself.  A new baby alone is enough to wipe out the best of us.  Take this time to prepare and learn so when the time comes you'll be mentally and physically able to make the right decision for you.

[Bob W]

Divorces can be financially devastating if you let them. 

Please choose not to give up.    Get the highest child support you can go for.  Downsize the house, car, food etc..   

Remember to exercise every single morning to keep depression from setting in.   IMHO it would be a good idea for you and the kids to go on a no TV diet. 

Start looking for that second career that pays more.   Avoid all debts.   Focus on love as the center of your child parent relationship and not consumer items. 

Yeah,  I know, too much advice -- but unfortunately I speak from experience. 

Best of luck!

[frugal rph]

OP here.  Thank you again for all the kind, well thought out replies.  One thing I have really come to appreciate during this journey is how much support I have gotten from both my real life friends and the people on this forum.  I did not have any baby stuff left, and I just put the word out and received almost everything I needed second hand.  I am looking forward to helping someone else by passing it on to them.

I would love to sit down with STBX and have a civilized conversation about when he would like to see the kids and how he wants to divide up the assets, but that is just not going to happen.  He only lets me know when he wants to see them a few days ahead and lately I have to drive 6 hours to meet him in the middle with the kids.  If I don't do this, he will say he doesn't have the time or money to come here and he just won't see them.  He also doesn't call/skype when he says he will.  If it were just the baby, I would let him drift away without a fight, but the 7YO needs/wants to see him.  I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.  I tell myself that he is a really unhappy person and not to take it personally, but it is hard sometimes.  The only way he can hurt me anymore is by not seeing or calling the kids, and he knows that.

BobW, luckily my first career is pretty high paying and I'm financially stable without him.  We have no debts and fairly significant assets.  I realize I am way luckier than almost every other single mother I know.

MidWestLove,  I definitely do not want to be that angry person years later.  I have a friend who still drags her ex into court about once a year.  I only said I may need to get angry because I have gone straight to apathy.  I need to use anger to get the process moving so I am not in this limbo for years and years.  I'm not mad at him so much as hurt, and I try to avoid things that hurt me or the kids.

[Apostrophe]

I'm so sorry for the upheaval in your life.

The good news is that in the end, you're gonna be just peachy. :)

In my experience, the intense emotions you feel will come in waves over the next few months and continue to a much lesser extent over the next few years. It sounds like you have a pretty solid head on your shoulders, so when things feel shaky or perpetually uncertain, take some comfort in the fact that with good decisions and steady work, your life will completely even out in all areas and you will have grown for the better.

The focus on FIRE can wait. It pales in comparison to your own humanity. Ease up on yourself a bit. :)

Good luck.

[ZiziPB]

I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.

Seriously?  That is crazy.  He is just as obligated to support his children as you are.  You can't force him to co-parent with you but you certainly should make him meet his financial obligations to his children.

[Inevitable]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I wouldn't have the motivation to get out of bed, let alone worry about FIRE.

I hope things get better for you.

[Gin1984]

I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.

Seriously?  That is crazy.  He is just as obligated to support his children as you are.  You can't force him to co-parent with you but you certainly should make him meet his financial obligations to his children.

Record of that may influence the judge.

[lemonlime]

Regarding your 7 year old's desire to see her father:
Sometimes, it is much more painful, devastating, and harmful to the child to continue to pursue the relationship. If the man is willing to use his own children to hurt you, he's not someone who should be in their life. It may be worth some serious thought about whether it is really in your child's best interest to support her relationship with her father. It takes a lot out of a kid to be constantly disappointed and let down by the person they are supposed to be able to rely on most. My stepbrother and stepsister went through this with their mother. We lived in NY, and their mother got into a relationship with a man who was very controlling. She still saw her children sporadically at that point, but the son stopped wanting to see her because of the boyfriend. Eventually the mother and boyfriend moved to Florida (kids were probably 7 and 8 at that time), where contact became very sporadic. The daughter still wanted to maintain contact, and wanted to visit her mother. Not knowing anything about her living situation, my mother and stepfather (father of my stepsister) flew down with the daughter so they could visit. Her mother never showed up for the visit. I guess my stepsister still maintains some contact with her mother, but my stepbrother has not spoken to her in years. Another sad thing was that the mother had a child by another man (after my stepfather, before the controlling boyfriend). The child and my stepsibs are close, but the child has not seen her mother basically since she moved to Florida 15-20 years ago now. I don't think the mother was trying to harm anyone, but she got caught up in something that led her to abandoning her children. She had left my stepsibs and stepfather when they were only 1 and 2 years old, and was unreliable for years before she moved out of state. My stepsister has a lot of problems now, my stepbrother is doing really well. I feel like a lot of it has to do with their attempts (or lack thereof) to maintain a relationship with their mother. Something to think about.

[firelight]

+1 to above.

If your ex is willing to disappoint your kid again and again, that is not a very healthy relationship. Kids are more resilient than we give credit for. Once your son starts seeing that his dad isn't keeping up his word, the relationship would cool down a bit. Your duty is to your kids. Try to get the highest child support possible for them. If your financial situation is very good, you can start saving that child support in accounts for them. That way, they will have a buffer later in life. Please don't give up without a fight for what's right for your kids. It might be hard now but it would be for the best long term.

Hugs to you!!

[Chuck]

I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.

Seriously?  That is crazy.  He is just as obligated to support his children as you are.  You can't force him to co-parent with you but you certainly should make him meet his financial obligations to his children.

You missed the part where she makes twice as much money as he does.

That (in many states) entitles him to alimony. A lot of it. As she said, enough to completely offset the child support.

[Gin1984]

I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.

Seriously?  That is crazy.  He is just as obligated to support his children as you are.  You can't force him to co-parent with you but you certainly should make him meet his financial obligations to his children.

You missed the part where she makes twice as much money as he does.

That (in many states) entitles him to alimony. A lot of it. As she said, enough to completely offset the child support.

Except that many states alimony is limited in duration whereas child support can go through college and she has a child that is just born.  Also, the marriage did not limit his income which, in my state, is taken into account.  He does not need retraining because again, this is his prefered career (again, something looked into when determining alimony).  She may still come out ahead by paying child support and alimony and alimony is not guaranteed and she does not make twice as much as him.  She could, if she went back to work but then you would have to account for daycare which could increase child support.  That being said, it assumes the court will look at the primary parent of a newborn and say, double your workload.  Not all judges will.  It is a gamble.

[CheapskateWife]

I offered him a 50/50 split of the assets (informally) with no child support and he said he would have to think about it and I'm probably trying to rip him off.

Seriously?  That is crazy.  He is just as obligated to support his children as you are.  You can't force him to co-parent with you but you certainly should make him meet his financial obligations to his children.

You missed the part where she makes twice as much money as he does.

That (in many states) entitles him to alimony. A lot of it. As she said, enough to completely offset the child support.

Is a party entitled to alimony in a situation where they are the party at fault? (i.e. he moved 12 hours away and abandoned his family) 

Perhaps OP, in your state there is a way to file for divorce on the grounds of abandonment.

[Zamboni]

^+1 to this.

Sorry to read that he's not mature enough to make his children a priority :-(

I wish I had a penny for every time I've had to say this: it doesn't matter what your STBX says about what is fair or that you are ripping him off. It matters what the law says and how the court interprets that law in your unique situation, and that's it.

Time to lawyer up. At this point it sounds like there's nothing to lose anyway. Based upon the situation you have presented, I'd be shocked if any court awarded him alimony. He abandoned his family and left you holding the bag for how long already now? You need a clean break and legal separation of assets so you can focus on healing and getting your life back in order.

Please keep a recorded date/time log of every time he is supposed to do something for the children, like says he will call, and fails to follow through. Keep a calendar of which nights they are with you (sounds like all nights.) Does your state have an online worksheet for calculating child support? I don't need the child support money from my ex- for living expenses thanks to my MMM ways, so I put all of it in 529 accounts. You could do the same, but only if you manage to get the support ordered.  Based upon what I am reading about his lack of follow through on behalf of the children, that part you should do via a lawyer through a court order. It will save a lot of time and grief later if he decides he doesn't want to pay anymore because if he violates the order, then the state can go straight to garnishing wages, if necessary.

[Kris]

Sigh.

I have seen so much of this type of situation in my life.

I am so, so sorry.  The near term is going to be challenging.  But you will come out of this on top. I can tell just from "hearing" you and your tone. 

[frugal rph]

It is so hard to know what to do about both trying to keep him in the kids' lives and whether it is worth trying to get child support.  My 7yo sees a child psychologist and I see my own therapist. My therapist says let him go its not my fault if he drops out of their lives and the child psychologist says support the relationship every way you can.  I feel I have to err on the side of supporting the relationship even if it turned out to be the wrong decision in the end I'll feel better about that. 

One way to look at the wbole child support thing is that I will get to claim both children on my taxes every year.  if he pays child support I assume he will want to claim one of them.  like many posters on here have said thank goodness I'm not worried about trying to keep a roof over their heads.

[Kris]

It is so hard to know what to do about both trying to keep him in the kids' lives and whether it is worth trying to get child support.  My 7yo sees a child psychologist and I see my own therapist. My therapist says let him go its not my fault if he drops out of their lives and the child psychologist says support the relationship every way you can.

I don't really see those two as contradictory.  It's true, it's not your fault if he drops out of their lives, and trying to force him to be in their lives will only make things more tense for you, him, and probably the kids.  That's not your job. You support their relationship every way you can by encouraging him to have a relationship with them and see them on a regular basis.  If he doesn't want to, though, or starts doing things like makes a "date" to see them and then doesn't show or cancels, that's not helping them and that just makes you upset and the kids hopeful and then let down.  Your role is to try to establish a set schedule that allows him to be a regular part of their lives, but if it doesn't work, then to do your best to set boundaries that are the healthiest ones for your kids. 

[Gin1984]

It is so hard to know what to do about both trying to keep him in the kids' lives and whether it is worth trying to get child support.  My 7yo sees a child psychologist and I see my own therapist. My therapist says let him go its not my fault if he drops out of their lives and the child psychologist says support the relationship every way you can.  I feel I have to err on the side of supporting the relationship even if it turned out to be the wrong decision in the end I'll feel better about that. 

One way to look at the wbole child support thing is that I will get to claim both children on my taxes every year.  if he pays child support I assume he will want to claim one of them.  like many posters on here have said thank goodness I'm not worried about trying to keep a roof over their heads.

Why is claiming them more important than getting child support.  As someone whose parent did not get child support, I did blame her. 

[southern granny]

It is so hard to know what to do about both trying to keep him in the kids' lives and whether it is worth trying to get child support.  My 7yo sees a child psychologist and I see my own therapist. My therapist says let him go its not my fault if he drops out of their lives and the child psychologist says support the relationship every way you can.  I feel I have to err on the side of supporting the relationship even if it turned out to be the wrong decision in the end I'll feel better about that. 

One way to look at the wbole child support thing is that I will get to claim both children on my taxes every year.  if he pays child support I assume he will want to claim one of them.  like many posters on here have said thank goodness I'm not worried about trying to keep a roof over their heads.

I do think it is important to have a male figure in their lives.  I grew up without a father and it did have an effect on me.  I was uncomfortable around and distrustful of men for a long time.  I only had my mother and grandmother, no male figures at all.  If the father is going to bow out of the picture is there a grandfather, uncle, or someone who can be a frequent presence and a good role model if you have a male child.

[Moonwaves]

It is so hard to know what to do about both trying to keep him in the kids' lives and whether it is worth trying to get child support.  My 7yo sees a child psychologist and I see my own therapist. My therapist says let him go its not my fault if he drops out of their lives and the child psychologist says support the relationship every way you can.

I don't really see those two as contradictory.  It's true, it's not your fault if he drops out of their lives, and trying to force him to be in their lives will only make things more tense for you, him, and probably the kids.  That's not your job. You support their relationship every way you can by encouraging him to have a relationship with them and see them on a regular basis.  If he doesn't want to, though, or starts doing things like makes a "date" to see them and then doesn't show or cancels, that's not helping them and that just makes you upset and the kids hopeful and then let down.  Your role is to try to establish a set schedule that allows him to be a regular part of their lives, but if it doesn't work, then to do your best to set boundaries that are the healthiest ones for your kids.

I agree with Kris. There is a line somewhere between supporting the relationship and letting yourself be used (abused?). I'm not sure where that line is but I don't think driving for hours to meet him is really something you should have to do. He is the one who chose to move, after all. Does the child psychologist know exactly what lengths you are going to and still thinks that's okay?
Someone above mentioned keeping a record of every time he arranges a date to talk to the kids and misses it. I think this is better advice than you might realise. Not because it's good to have a log of this kind of thing for possible later court proceedings but because it is awfully easy to "forget" how annoying and upsetting this kind of thing is and more especially, how often it happens. I managed to break free of a really fairly toxic relationship because I started writing down how it was making me feel and found the notebook a couple of years later - it made me realise that as much as I wanted to always give that friend the benefit of the doubt and always wanted to see that things had improved, really, what was happening was simply something that had happened over and over again but, with time, I'd pushed it away. Having it laid out in black and white allowed me to realise that I had actually never had the slightest influence on that selfish behaviour and eventually that led to me just not accepting that selfish behaviour anymore. Having it written down really, really helps.

[BPA]

I raised two small kids on my own.  My original goal wasn't to retire very early, but rather to work part-time since one of my kids has some special needs.  As it turns out, not only did my mindful spending mean that I have worked part-time for the past 9 years, but I will be retiring at 47 later this year.  My kids are now 16 and 18.

It can still be done and sometimes, when you are calling all of the shots on your own, being mustachian is easier.