Geographic Arbitrage and Loneliness

[Cranky]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

[fuzzy math]

The WSJ published a piece [sorry, paywall] yesterday about those who moved during the pandemic and now have regrets. I think most people experience some form of buyer's remorse after a big move, makes sense that moving quickly without doing due diligence would amplify this. I still think OP should give it a little more time since they are originally from the area and presumably didn't rush into it completely unaware.

I wonder, though, how many of the urbanites that decamped to the boondocks will return to some type of city after the pandemic ends. It is more difficult to establish community in a rural area where friendships are measured in decades and outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Most outings involve an annoying amount of driving. Fast, reliable internet isn't usually an option. And then there's a bunch of stuff people don't even know to consider such as: issues with wells/water supply, maintaining private roads, and having to snowplow your mile long driveway, to list a few. Some people don't mind these things, more power to them! But I think many will reassess after the first winter.

The good news is that there are a ton of smaller cities with many of the benefits of rural life (slower pace of life, lower cost of living) without the headaches. And many of these small cities are somewhat liberal-ish. Look for small cities with a university and/or a natural food market such as Whole Foods or similar. Two examples in my corner of the country, Walla Walla, WA and Eugene, OR.

Walla Walla is not liberal at all. http://www.city-data.com/city/Walla-Walla-Washington.html

[PDXTabs]

Hi @HastyTortoise,

Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

This is absolutely the most common sense post I've read on MMM in a long time.....well done!

Homophily is considered normal in human psychology.

[Villanelle]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places. 

[FINate]

The WSJ published a piece [sorry, paywall] yesterday about those who moved during the pandemic and now have regrets. I think most people experience some form of buyer's remorse after a big move, makes sense that moving quickly without doing due diligence would amplify this. I still think OP should give it a little more time since they are originally from the area and presumably didn't rush into it completely unaware.

I wonder, though, how many of the urbanites that decamped to the boondocks will return to some type of city after the pandemic ends. It is more difficult to establish community in a rural area where friendships are measured in decades and outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Most outings involve an annoying amount of driving. Fast, reliable internet isn't usually an option. And then there's a bunch of stuff people don't even know to consider such as: issues with wells/water supply, maintaining private roads, and having to snowplow your mile long driveway, to list a few. Some people don't mind these things, more power to them! But I think many will reassess after the first winter.

The good news is that there are a ton of smaller cities with many of the benefits of rural life (slower pace of life, lower cost of living) without the headaches. And many of these small cities are somewhat liberal-ish. Look for small cities with a university and/or a natural food market such as Whole Foods or similar. Two examples in my corner of the country, Walla Walla, WA and Eugene, OR.

Walla Walla is not liberal at all. http://www.city-data.com/city/Walla-Walla-Washington.html

It's not deep blue. But 44% voted for Biden. So for about every 2 people you see, one voted Dem. As cities under 50k go, that's liberal-ish.

[Cranky]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places.

It depends on here you live and what you need to do.

It took an hour to drive from North Miami to South Miami when we needed to run errands.
It took half an hour to haul the kids to art class in Pittsburgh.
It took half an hour to drive to the grocery store in Denver.

It took my dd 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles to her job when she lived in Manhattan, whether she walked or took the bus.

One thing that I like about life here in Boring is the utter lack of traffic.

[jehovasfitness23]

The WSJ published a piece [sorry, paywall] yesterday about those who moved during the pandemic and now have regrets. I think most people experience some form of buyer's remorse after a big move, makes sense that moving quickly without doing due diligence would amplify this. I still think OP should give it a little more time since they are originally from the area and presumably didn't rush into it completely unaware.

I wonder, though, how many of the urbanites that decamped to the boondocks will return to some type of city after the pandemic ends. It is more difficult to establish community in a rural area where friendships are measured in decades and outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Most outings involve an annoying amount of driving. Fast, reliable internet isn't usually an option. And then there's a bunch of stuff people don't even know to consider such as: issues with wells/water supply, maintaining private roads, and having to snowplow your mile long driveway, to list a few. Some people don't mind these things, more power to them! But I think many will reassess after the first winter.

The good news is that there are a ton of smaller cities with many of the benefits of rural life (slower pace of life, lower cost of living) without the headaches. And many of these small cities are somewhat liberal-ish. Look for small cities with a university and/or a natural food market such as Whole Foods or similar. Two examples in my corner of the country, Walla Walla, WA and Eugene, OR.

Walla Walla is not liberal at all. http://www.city-data.com/city/Walla-Walla-Washington.html

It's not deep blue. But 44% voted for Biden. So for about every 2 people you see, one voted Dem. As cities under 50k go, that's liberal-ish.

44% is low. I'm from a rural long traditional conservative county and past 2 POTUS cycles it's been 55/45 or 53/47 and that's by no means a case for being liberal.

We had a HS recently where students tagged the school with the N word, and let's just say I wasn't too shocked by that

[FINate]

44% is low. I'm from a rural long traditional conservative county and past 2 POTUS cycles it's been 55/45 or 53/47 and that's by no means a case for being liberal.

We had a HS recently where students tagged the school with the N word, and let's just say I wasn't too shocked by that

It's better odds than, say, Lewiston ID. And *way* better odds than a conservative looking for like-minded folks in San Francisco (85/15). Boise voted (just slightly) for Trump, yet I wouldn't classify the city as either conservative or liberal. It's a mix. My neighborhood is all BLM, "In this house...", and rainbow flags. Obviously other parts of the city are more conservative, yet the mayor and city council are Democrats.

In the context of this thread, a city with somewhere around 50/50 split means there's enough diversity to find open minded people. Or partisans, if that's what one is looking for. However, if the goal is majority liberal then I agree, Walla Walla isn't a good choice.   

[Villanelle]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places.

It depends on here you live and what you need to do.

It took an hour to drive from North Miami to South Miami when we needed to run errands.
It took half an hour to haul the kids to art class in Pittsburgh.
It took half an hour to drive to the grocery store in Denver.

It took my dd 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles to her job when she lived in Manhattan, whether she walked or took the bus.

One thing that I like about life here in Boring is the utter lack of traffic.

IF you were half an hour from any grocery store, I have a hard time believing you were in the city.  That sounds much more like a suburb, although any suburb I've lived in has been littered with grocery stores and you could have probably drive to 5 different choices in less than 15 minutes. 

What errands did you need to run that were an hour away?  Maybe our definition of "living in the city" is very different. 

And living in "Boring", are you not an hour away from a fancy art class?  And was the one an hour away in Pittsburgh truly the closest art class?  What major city were you in that didn't have an art class closer than an hour?    Again, most cities are going to have multiple art classes. 

[marble_faun]

My situation is different, but I can relate in a lot of ways.

This past summer we moved from a city to a rural area.  We chose to live in the largest town in the area, specifically because it is a lot more cosmopolitan than the surroundings, and we felt we would fit in better as newcomers.

On paper it was the right choice for us.  This seems like a great place to raise a child. The landscape is beautiful. People seem friendly, and daily life has a gentle quality. Judging from yard signs, only a few of our neighbors are MAGA.

Truth be told though, I feel nostalgic for our old city.  Our cultural horizons have narrowed, and we hardly know anyone.

HOWEVER, I'm not sure if I really miss our old city, or if it's that I miss life before COVID.  So many activities I would love to do are discouraged right now (ranging from participation in a craft class, to attending a play, to bringing our toddler to story-time at a library). It's impossible to meet anyone since social life is so bottled up. We feel completely disconnected.

I at least have memories of hanging out with people and doing fun things in our old city, but here it's just a blank.

Basically, thanks to the pandemic, we are having trouble bonding with our new town.  But we are going to give it some time and see what happens. If we haven't managed to build community for ourselves within another year or two, we will consider heading back from whence we came.

[Cranky]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places.

It depends on here you live and what you need to do.

It took an hour to drive from North Miami to South Miami when we needed to run errands.
It took half an hour to haul the kids to art class in Pittsburgh.
It took half an hour to drive to the grocery store in Denver.

It took my dd 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles to her job when she lived in Manhattan, whether she walked or took the bus.

One thing that I like about life here in Boring is the utter lack of traffic.

IF you were half an hour from any grocery store, I have a hard time believing you were in the city.  That sounds much more like a suburb, although any suburb I've lived in has been littered with grocery stores and you could have probably drive to 5 different choices in less than 15 minutes. 

What errands did you need to run that were an hour away?  Maybe our definition of "living in the city" is very different. 

And living in "Boring", are you not an hour away from a fancy art class?  And was the one an hour away in Pittsburgh truly the closest art class?  What major city were you in that didn't have an art class closer than an hour?    Again, most cities are going to have multiple art classes.

DC does seem to have an unusually well planned traffic flow. We were impressed when we were there last winter!

But that is not true everywhere. I find Denver to be very congested these days and it can take a really long time to get even short distances. Dh’s family doesn’t live downtown, so I can’t speak to the driving to the grocery store situation there, but there is so darned much traffic there now that when we had to decide about long term plans, we reluctantly agreed that we would not move back to Denver, a place we had both lived in the past.

But we certainly did live in the city in Miami, a place that is very spread out because well, that’s the way things are built. It’s a huge sprawl. And we lived in the city in Pittsburgh. The art class wasn’t geographically very far away, but you either had to fight the traffic or take a long walk with little kids or a long bus ride.

Here in Boring, the art lessons at the museum are 10 minutes away, or 5 minutes in the other direction at a kids’ lesson kinda place (my girls all took art and music classes there.) I really appreciate that there’s not much traffic and that dh doesn’t spend a ton of time commuting.

I was just thinking that it took us as long to get to the Pittsburgh IKEA when we lived in Pittsburgh as it takes us to get there now when we don’t live in Pittsburgh!

[fuzzy math]

The WSJ published a piece [sorry, paywall] yesterday about those who moved during the pandemic and now have regrets. I think most people experience some form of buyer's remorse after a big move, makes sense that moving quickly without doing due diligence would amplify this. I still think OP should give it a little more time since they are originally from the area and presumably didn't rush into it completely unaware.

I wonder, though, how many of the urbanites that decamped to the boondocks will return to some type of city after the pandemic ends. It is more difficult to establish community in a rural area where friendships are measured in decades and outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Most outings involve an annoying amount of driving. Fast, reliable internet isn't usually an option. And then there's a bunch of stuff people don't even know to consider such as: issues with wells/water supply, maintaining private roads, and having to snowplow your mile long driveway, to list a few. Some people don't mind these things, more power to them! But I think many will reassess after the first winter.

The good news is that there are a ton of smaller cities with many of the benefits of rural life (slower pace of life, lower cost of living) without the headaches. And many of these small cities are somewhat liberal-ish. Look for small cities with a university and/or a natural food market such as Whole Foods or similar. Two examples in my corner of the country, Walla Walla, WA and Eugene, OR.

Walla Walla is not liberal at all. http://www.city-data.com/city/Walla-Walla-Washington.html

It's not deep blue. But 44% voted for Biden. So for about every 2 people you see, one voted Dem. As cities under 50k go, that's liberal-ish.

2020 is an outlier due to the candidates. Look at the previous elections... Democrats hadn't broken the 40% mark since 1996 before that. The data says more about disaffected Trump / third party voters than it does about a liberal population.

[ItsALongStory]

I also worry a bit about loneliness but in a very different situation. The pandemic certainly has an impact on our setup, but still. We are currently locked down and haven't visited with anyone (other than bumping into our neighbors on a walk) for 4+ weeks.

This past summer my wife and I packed up in the US and moved to live a nomadic life in Western Europe. We have stayed with family for about 8 weeks and then made our way down to Southern Portugal (Algarve). In this stay I have learned that both my wife and I need to have our own outlets, she enjoys painting/crafting and I have gotten much more into fitness. Our plan is slow travel with 1month or longer stays in a bunch of places, focusing initially on Italy. With every destination it's going to be a struggle to find a new cohort of crafters or worker outers (biking primarily) for us. We won't know how it'll feel but it's a fact that it'll be tough.

[Weisass]

I’ll give you the advice I always hand to stranded liberals - look around for the nearest UU church and your local Quakers. That’s where you’ll meet your tribe.

This is good advice (I’m a Presbyterian pastor)

[Villanelle]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places.

It depends on here you live and what you need to do.

It took an hour to drive from North Miami to South Miami when we needed to run errands.
It took half an hour to haul the kids to art class in Pittsburgh.
It took half an hour to drive to the grocery store in Denver.

It took my dd 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles to her job when she lived in Manhattan, whether she walked or took the bus.

One thing that I like about life here in Boring is the utter lack of traffic.

IF you were half an hour from any grocery store, I have a hard time believing you were in the city.  That sounds much more like a suburb, although any suburb I've lived in has been littered with grocery stores and you could have probably drive to 5 different choices in less than 15 minutes. 

What errands did you need to run that were an hour away?  Maybe our definition of "living in the city" is very different. 

And living in "Boring", are you not an hour away from a fancy art class?  And was the one an hour away in Pittsburgh truly the closest art class?  What major city were you in that didn't have an art class closer than an hour?    Again, most cities are going to have multiple art classes.

DC does seem to have an unusually well planned traffic flow. We were impressed when we were there last winter!

But that is not true everywhere. I find Denver to be very congested these days and it can take a really long time to get even short distances. Dh’s family doesn’t live downtown, so I can’t speak to the driving to the grocery store situation there, but there is so darned much traffic there now that when we had to decide about long term plans, we reluctantly agreed that we would not move back to Denver, a place we had both lived in the past.

But we certainly did live in the city in Miami, a place that is very spread out because well, that’s the way things are built. It’s a huge sprawl. And we lived in the city in Pittsburgh. The art class wasn’t geographically very far away, but you either had to fight the traffic or take a long walk with little kids or a long bus ride.

Here in Boring, the art lessons at the museum are 10 minutes away, or 5 minutes in the other direction at a kids’ lesson kinda place (my girls all took art and music classes there.) I really appreciate that there’s not much traffic and that dh doesn’t spend a ton of time commuting.

I was just thinking that it took us as long to get to the Pittsburgh IKEA when we lived in Pittsburgh as it takes us to get there now when we don’t live in Pittsburgh!

LOL.  DC has some of the worst traffic in the country. Third in the country for worst congestion, behind LA and San Francisco (which means we are worse than NYC).  It can easily take 30 minutes to go 5 miles.  But when you are in the actual city (or a heavily mixed use area), you only need to go > a mile to get to a grocery store so it doesn't matter.  I'm not in DC proper, but I'm in a large mixed use area.  I can walk to everything I commonly need--groceries, hardware store, a zillion restaurants, gyms, etc.  Or bike.  And if I drove, it's a mile or less, so I'd be there in probably 10 minutes (though parking can be a concern). 

That's why I think we have different definitions of living "in the city".

It sounds like even that art class wasn't very far away, but having the kids made it tough. 

[jehovasfitness23]

I ,OTOH, don’t want to live in the Big City because it takes forever to get anyplace.

???  I can walk to everything I need on a daily or weekly basis in less than ten minutes.  If I wanted to drive, it would be less than 5.  I can drive to a major airport in about 15 minutes.  Major theater, world class museums, all in less than 15 minutes (or 10 minutes on a train that is a 12 minute walk away). 

It often takes "forever to get anyplace" if you live in the burbs and need to get in and out of the city proper, but living *in* the city generally means everything you need is close.

I don't want to talk anyone to living in a city.  If it's not a fit, it's not.  But I'm scratching my head at the notion that when you live in the center of everything, it takes forever to get places.

It depends on here you live and what you need to do.

It took an hour to drive from North Miami to South Miami when we needed to run errands.
It took half an hour to haul the kids to art class in Pittsburgh.
It took half an hour to drive to the grocery store in Denver.

It took my dd 40 minutes to go the 2.5 miles to her job when she lived in Manhattan, whether she walked or took the bus.

One thing that I like about life here in Boring is the utter lack of traffic.

IF you were half an hour from any grocery store, I have a hard time believing you were in the city.  That sounds much more like a suburb, although any suburb I've lived in has been littered with grocery stores and you could have probably drive to 5 different choices in less than 15 minutes. 

What errands did you need to run that were an hour away?  Maybe our definition of "living in the city" is very different. 

And living in "Boring", are you not an hour away from a fancy art class?  And was the one an hour away in Pittsburgh truly the closest art class?  What major city were you in that didn't have an art class closer than an hour?    Again, most cities are going to have multiple art classes.

DC does seem to have an unusually well planned traffic flow. We were impressed when we were there last winter!

But that is not true everywhere. I find Denver to be very congested these days and it can take a really long time to get even short distances. Dh’s family doesn’t live downtown, so I can’t speak to the driving to the grocery store situation there, but there is so darned much traffic there now that when we had to decide about long term plans, we reluctantly agreed that we would not move back to Denver, a place we had both lived in the past.

But we certainly did live in the city in Miami, a place that is very spread out because well, that’s the way things are built. It’s a huge sprawl. And we lived in the city in Pittsburgh. The art class wasn’t geographically very far away, but you either had to fight the traffic or take a long walk with little kids or a long bus ride.

Here in Boring, the art lessons at the museum are 10 minutes away, or 5 minutes in the other direction at a kids’ lesson kinda place (my girls all took art and music classes there.) I really appreciate that there’s not much traffic and that dh doesn’t spend a ton of time commuting.

I was just thinking that it took us as long to get to the Pittsburgh IKEA when we lived in Pittsburgh as it takes us to get there now when we don’t live in Pittsburgh!

LOL.  DC has some of the worst traffic in the country. Third in the country for worst congestion, behind LA and San Francisco (which means we are worse than NYC).  It can easily take 30 minutes to go 5 miles.  But when you are in the actual city (or a heavily mixed use area), you only need to go > a mile to get to a grocery store so it doesn't matter.  I'm not in DC proper, but I'm in a large mixed use area.  I can walk to everything I commonly need--groceries, hardware store, a zillion restaurants, gyms, etc.  Or bike.  And if I drove, it's a mile or less, so I'd be there in probably 10 minutes (though parking can be a concern). 

That's why I think we have different definitions of living "in the city".

It sounds like even that art class wasn't very far away, but having the kids made it tough.

was going to say same living 30 mins outside of DC. The design of the city for traffic is horrendous, and the drivers rank among the worst in the nation, not a good combo

during non-covid times my wife has a 35 mile commute from MD into DC to VA, on a good day would take 70-75 mins and on a slightly bad day close to 90 mins

[AMandM]

OP, speaking as someone who moved to a place I didn't like in itself that was near grandparents (though in my case it was a quarter-acre-lawns suburb instead of a small town), don't discount the benefits of living among family. It was immensely beneficial to my kids. Yes, Grandma did some babysitting, but the main benefit was that our kids grew up with an awareness of the older generation that I don't think they would have gotten otherwise. It gave them a view into people with an outlook different from their parents'--the best possible lesson in respecting differences.

As to finding friends for yourself, I agree with those saying to wait till things open up more. It will be a lot easier to find people with whom you have something in common once you can do activities of mutual interest. You can volunteer at an animal shelter or soup kitchen, join a local theater or music group, take a class, etc. Who knows, you might even become friends with a MAGA hat-wearing animal lover, cook, actor or musician!

[Tinker]

Sounds to me like you're using reverse arbitrage.
You prematurely picked a spot for retirement which is not suited to your temperament, and are likely going back to work to afford a spot more akin to your tastes on top of selling the property (might take time and/or incur loss in undesirable location)

[kite]

Find a way to be of service.
You might have to find a church you can tolerate. 
In every town, there is someone lonely who is desperate for connection and in need of some support that you can provide.  Provide it.  Do this on an individual or personal level or do this within an organization as part of a group.  Get your children involved in this cause.  And do it, not for the accolades, but for the genuine benefit of that other person or persons, expecting nothing in return. 
The key to having lots of friends and not being lonely is in stepping far enough outside your comfort zone to be a friend to someone who is very different from you.

[Villanelle]

Find a way to be of service.
You might have to find a church you can tolerate. 
In every town, there is someone lonely who is desperate for connection and in need of some support that you can provide.  Provide it.  Do this on an individual or personal level or do this within an organization as part of a group.  Get your children involved in this cause.  And do it, not for the accolades, but for the genuine benefit of that other person or persons, expecting nothing in return. 
The key to having lots of friends and not being lonely is in stepping far enough outside your comfort zone to be a friend to someone who is very different from you.

In addition to churches, schools and libraries are almost always looking for reliable volunteers, as are animal organizations.  Those are great avenues to explore for someone not comfortable with a church.  You may also have Meals on Wheels, or a similar program. 

Start a Free Little Library, ideally in the heart of the town but on the edge of your property if necessary and feasible..  Especially if poverty or food insecurity is a problem, start a free little pantry.

[HastyTortoise]

Thanks again for all of the thoughtful advice shared. I took some of your suggestions and searched a little deeper and a bit farther from home. Here's what I found:

- A Farm and Forest kids program that just started right before the pandemic (bad timing) so they're still tiny and looking for new students. It's a 45 minute drive, but should be well worth it. It's all outdoors and small classes, so they're starting back up in the spring.

- A small local country club on a lake; not exactly mustachian but the monthly member dues for our whole family are less than our big city gym memberships were. We love golf, tennis, etc; plus they have family-centered events and are trying to recruit younger members. And over half of the members are seasonal from out of town, providing a more diverse range of people to get to know.

- I didn't find any UU churches, but there's a small Quaker camp down the road that has a kids indoor rock-climbing club. It's closed for now, but I look forward to it re-opening to try it out! My husband's grandparents were Quaker/Mennonite and were involved with this camp, so there's some cool family history there too!

- A network of local libraries - all the programming is currently on hold, but they will have some fun events resuming, hopefully, in the spring.

- The music director of my old high school is now running a non-profit coffeehouse benefiting troubled youth; she likes to serve healthy local food and intends to add in some nutrition classes, which is right up my alley. I learned this from my new next door neighbor, who just happens to be her business partner - small world, huh?!

I think, like a lot of people today, I was feeling too blue and overwhelmed from prolonged isolation. Motivating myself to get out there and look harder for things my family and I might enjoy has been up-lifting. I'm truly grateful for your inspiration!

Like I mentioned in my original post, I'm not an outwardly political person. I'm very open to forming friendships with people of differing opinions who are thoughtful and respectful. I just don't care for hate speech and don't intend to give my time of day to people who are immediately judgmental of me and my family for being "liberal" - or even moderate. I don't typically wear my views on my sleeve, but I also don't stand for someone spewing hate around me, which, unfortunately, there's a lot of these days.

Our family hopes to find some social connection in these new options; we intend to give it another year or two. After that, if this town still doesn't feel right, we can always embark on a different adventure!

[draco44]

Great update, OP. That's wonderful to hear that by digging a bit deeper you've uncovered various connection points in your community you want to explore. The non-profit coffee house program sounds especially cool to me. And that's wonderful that you found something in common with on of your immediate neighbors.

[former player]

If you do ever decide to move away the country club out-of-towners might be potential purchasers for your place once you've done the renovations.

[zolotiyeruki]

Like I mentioned in my original post, I'm not an outwardly political person. I'm very open to forming friendships with people of differing opinions who are thoughtful and respectful. I just don't care for hate speech and don't intend to give my time of day to people who are immediately judgmental of me and my family for being "liberal" - or even moderate. I don't typically wear my views on my sleeve, but I also don't stand for someone spewing hate around me, which, unfortunately, there's a lot of these days.

It's not an easy struggle, that's for sure.  I have a FB friend (from HS), and we disagree, very strongly, about just about every controversial political issue.  I reached out to him recently to get a better understanding of his perspective, and the resulting conversation has been difficult.  What I've come to realize is that, in a sense, we're not even speaking the same language.  For example, the terms "accountability," "white supremacy," and "bigotry" mean very different things to him than they do to me.  I'm sure the same is true for "spewing hate."  Because neither of us is willing to accept the other's definitions, it has been really frustrating to him (and a little to me as well).  Having realized this, my next step is to try to find *some* common ground that we can use as a basis.  Without that, we're just talking past each other.

[FINate]

Thanks for the update. All sounds promising! I appreciate your approach and perspective. IMO, you're part of the solution to the deep polarization of this country. Keep it up, and let us know how things go!