Geographic Arbitrage and Loneliness

[HastyTortoise]

Hello all! This is my first forum post, although I’ve followed MMM since 2013.

My husband and I are nearing our leap into FIRE, but have an issue we’re facing:

In the midst of covid chaos, our family made a crazy big decision this past summer that we’re now somewhat second guessing.

We moved back to our little rural Bible-belt hometown. Primarily for geographic arbitrage. Also because we thought it might be nice for our two young kids to get to know their grandparents.

A few miles outside the little town where we grew up, we found our beautiful dream home, on a lake, with 5 acres of woods. It was built by a well-known family of local boat manufacturers, but had been vacant for nearly a decade. It’s a fixer upper and we could well afford it! (After living right outside Boulder, CO for 5 years, affordable property is a dream!)

I homeschool our two kids and my husband works his tech job remote, but only for four more months, then … that’s it, we’re free! FIRE, a few years sooner than we had planned because we moved back to a low cost of living town!

But, it’s inexpensive for a reason. It’s in the middle of nowhere, over two hours from the nearest sizable city. It’s a very traditional and insular community. And we’re starting to remember why we bolted out of here at eighteen.

We’re having a very hard time connecting with people here, Covid aside. Old classmates and relatives now feel like total strangers because we’ve been gone for 15 years.

Political and ideological divides are running deep in our country right now, and we’re feeling it weighing heavy in our personal lives as we try to bridge the divides and make friends. We’re open minded people, and aren’t outwardly political, but it’s a hard endeavor!

We’re very happy with our new dream home, and are ecstatic about our upcoming retirement, but we’re very lonely. And burned out. And we’re wondering how the social issues we’re facing will impact our lifestyle post-retirement. (And impact our kids.)

Has anyone dealt with similar issues? Thoughts, advice, or simple understanding are much appreciated!

Thank you!

[highflyingstache]

Not quite in the same situation, but perhaps a suitable angle on your positon,

"Bolted" out of my hometown years ago in similar fashion (As did the better half). Like yourselves, we're living in a HCOL, the hometown is a LCOL, ideological differences, different industries, different...lots!

Unlike yourself, we're not intended to move back. However, where I see similar, is the fact that we've set up a well oiled program. Even from a distance like what you used to have, we always have a plan. Phone calls, visits, time with friends or family, is all on our terms. We sometimes even discuss beforehand what we expect (think holidays or times of big friction being possible),

Alternatively, sometimes things happen. We must go to them on a whim. It can be tough, but we give each other lots of breathing room for respective family issues, friend issues and overall emotions. After a long weekend in the hometown, it can take just as long to unwind in the peace and quiet far away. The gym helps. Talking helps. A good book does too! But in the end, being able to make a plan beforehand (or simply say, 'Hell no, not today' sometimes to some arbitrary useless request from someone makes you feel so much better. Our terms*!!!

*When able

[draco44]

Hello, former lurker! Maybe the saying's true that "you can never go home again," but you can, over time, make where you are now a new version of home if you give it time. And you choose to. If you truly hate it there, you are always free to move away again. But that doesn't sound like where you are at.

I think you should give it more time. Were you not in your hometown now, the shadow of COVID would add a layer of suck to pretty much anywhere else you might happen to be living. Also, COVID or no COVID, it would take most people a while to reignite friendships that have been dormant for 15 years. The pandemic certainly does add another level of challenge to the transition though.

Also, realize that it's possible you truly have outgrown at least some of those old friendships and will never be particularly close with those people again. That's okay too. Hopefully those old connections can stay at least civil. Remember too that friendship is a two-way street. Have these people ever called or visited you in the last 15 years? And did you ever reach out to them? If these old pals aren't chomping at the bit to reconnect for whatever reason, that's something to consider. If you are not a priority for them, leave the door open to closeness in the future but don't try to force it or hold it against them if they don't want to be your BFFs. Someone not wanting to be your friend doesn't make them a bad person but it does mean you should probably save your energy for investing in someone else.

You might be better served focusing on looking for new friends in your area. But realize you may have to wait until after the pandemic for that to happen, since so many social mixer activities are currently on hold. For now, enjoy your house and spending time with the grandparents. Be more appreciative of shallow but pleasant interactions you have with people around town. And if you already have even one non-family member you can call a close friend? Count your blessings and be extra nice to them. One real friend is priceless. Many people don't have such a person in their life at all, small town or not.

[vand]

To be blunt.. I think you're probably taken a decision that doesn't align with your values.  Your home sounds lovely for a summer vacation but most people also value social interaction, community, and the other benefits of population density.

[former player]

Even in a small, traditional and insular community there will be some other people who share your values.  They may not be making themselves obvious, though - for obvious reasons.  Pandemic makes it hard, but at some point it will be over and at that time you can work out what you can do to entice those people out of the woodwork and into the new network of like-minded people you want to build in your area.  In the meantime you have what sounds like a dream project of updating your house and maybe making a garden?   Good luck - don't give up on your location just yet.

[Cranky]

I’ll give you the advice I always hand to stranded liberals - look around for the nearest UU church and your local Quakers. That’s where you’ll meet your tribe.

[zolotiyeruki]

A couple years ago, I attended my 20 year high school reunion.  Some people I remembered pretty well, a lot of people's names sounded familiar, and some people I couldn't remember at all.

I found that the best approach was often to treat the relationship as if I were meeting entirely new people, rather than attempting to rekindle old friendships that were based on a stage of life that's no longer relevant.  Twenty years prior, our lives centered around academics, athletics, band, clubs, etc and we spent lots of time together.  Now it's work, family, hobbies, and adults spend the bulk of their time living their own lives.

We homeschool as well, and even though we're in a reasonably populous suburb, have felt pretty isolated, too.  Are there homeschool groups or co-ops in your area that you could join?

[MayDay]

I'm afraid I don't have anything too helpful to add as that sounds completely terrible and not worth FIRE! Yes living near grandparents is nice if you like them and they are helpful.  It the rest of it would make me miserable.

Of course as noted it is hard to really get a read on the situation with Covid. Who knows what like minded folks are out there but currently staying home due to Covid.

Maybe set an end date and bail in a couple years? There are other cheap places that have more population and different demographics so a higher chance of finding a sense of community.

[Morning Glory]

Oh god I have thought about this. I could have been FIREd a couple years ago if I wanted to move back to the area where I grew up. Same issues: insular, judgy, lots of poverty and drugs, infrastructure falling apart, poor job market, Trump flags, now rampant Covid deaths. My mom still lives there and she has some nice neighbors, but she is going to move out as soon as she retires. I am in contact with some of my old friends but they all got out of there too.

I'm losing my taste for rural living too. We have a gorgeous property outside a MCOL town but it needs constant maintenance which leaves little time for travel or weekend activities. It would also be nice for my kids to be in a neighborhood so it would be easier to make friends. We enjoyed it for a few years so I m not counting it as a failure, just something we tried for a while.

I do want to go somewhere warmer but I don't know where yet, so I'm thinking of just getting a modest house in the area where we currently live. That will give us more time to travel and explore our other interests. I'm really trying with the social interaction too, but it takes time.

Being a SAHP and homeschooling adds another layer of isolation. My husband stays home with our kids and has become very depressed in the last year or two, and our relationship has suffered. My kindergartner just started being able to go to school again after 2 months of distance learning, which was a trying experience to say the least. I've held off preschool for the youngest because of the pandemic too.  This is definitely not sustainable for us.

So you tried something and crossed it off your bucket list. It wasn't a failure, especially if you enjoyed it for a while.

 

[HastyTortoise]

I can't express how grateful I am to all of you for your thoughtful replies!

I think one mistake we've made is that we should've become active participants in the MMM community sooner! :)

I think you should give it more time. Were you not in your hometown now, the shadow of COVID would add a layer of suck to pretty much anywhere else you might happen to be living. Also, COVID or no COVID, it would take most people a while to reignite friendships that have been dormant for 15 years. The pandemic certainly does add another level of challenge to the transition though.

This is so true. Since my DH and I graduated college, our lives have been a speeding bullet train. It's hard for us to remember to be patient. We've become very good at doing things, and very bad at waiting. Which has gotten us to conventional success very early in life. But it's also made this past year very hard for us, and everyone else of course - we're all just waiting for things to change that are completely out of our control.

My DH and I are well aware that we want and need to slow down, which is always what's drawn us to the MMM philosophy. I think it's also in part what's drawn us back to the countryside. Small-town life is slower, and not in a bad way. I had forgotten that. (We're now in Amish country, so maybe I should look to their culture for inspiration. Haha.)

Even in a small, traditional and insular community there will be some other people who share your values.  They may not be making themselves obvious, though - for obvious reasons.  Pandemic makes it hard, but at some point it will be over and at that time you can work out what you can do to entice those people out of the woodwork and into the new network of like-minded people you want to build in your area.  In the meantime you have what sounds like a dream project of updating your house and maybe making a garden?   Good luck - don't give up on your location just yet.

This is a beautiful reminder that we can take the time to look for and build what we want: community, dream home (with garden), stronger bonds in our own little family. This is what FIRE is all about after all, right?!

Thanks again, everyone! I'm not terribly experienced in social media or online community, so it's very touching to me that a group of complete strangers will take the time to help me work out a personal issue. You're awesome!

[JoJo]

Lots of great advice in here.  I spent last summer in my hometown (first time in 29 years) and had a great time, it takes some work.  I joined a local informal water aerobics group at the local outdoor pool.  These ladies were on the pulse of goings on in town - a few outdoor concerts on main street, I started playing pickleball (that group met a couple times a week).  Reached out to some schoolmates.  Hadn't seen them since graduation but had a great time, ended up hanging out a few times.  Find people to go on walks with. 

[FINate]

Hi @HastyTortoise,

Welcome to the MMM forums!

We're in a similar boat. Made a long distance move last summer that was planned well before the pandemic hit and made everything more...interesting. We are also homeschooling this year which was also already part of our plans pre-COVID. We moved from a small city where DW and I both have roots and lots of friends to a medium size city where we didn't know anyone.

Due to COVID we were already feeling isolated before the move. So it has just taken longer than expected to meet people, then with those we do meet it takes longer than normal to forge deeper connections. Social distancing makes it difficult to make social connections, go figure.

I say give it more time, a least 6 more months.

Don't stress about it, and resist the urge to regret or worry that maybe you've made the wrong decision. Yes, there was a reason you bolted out of there as young adults, but there was also a reason you bolted back. No place is perfect, everything in life is full of trade-offs. It's okay to acknowledge the challenges while simultaneously embracing the positives. We found it helpful to think of intentionally cultivating a new rhythm of life, new traditions and activities for each season. This will be even more important as you move into FIRE. For example, now that we're so close to the mountains skiing has become a winter thing for our family, something we can do together while getting exercise. Part of the fun is researching the possibilities, and this also becomes fodder for conversation.

Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

[jehovasfitness23]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

[Arbitrage]

I'm sure that elements of this are probably our future as well.  We'll be relocating to coast-FIRE later this year.  We do have family about 1.5 hours away from the new area, and have already reconnected with an old friend who lives about an hour away (each also have kids who are of an age with our kids), but nevertheless I know we'll feel some loneliness and isolation after the move.  We're moving to a small/medium city rather than a rural area, and shouldn't have issues with the political ideology.  On the flip side, the area is Pacific Northwest, which is notorious for being difficult to make new social contacts in, per the "Seattle Freeze." 

Tentative plans to reach out of our (naturally introverted) bubble once we move include: Meetups for outdoor activities like hiking, biking/mountain biking, kayaking, skiing, camping, or whatever; join a new church; volunteer; try to form connections through kids' friends at school once they happen; nurture those existing friend/family relationships; we'll see what else.  I know it won't be easy but we'll have to persist.  Having kids probably helps...as well as makes the problem even more acute.

COVID definitely makes everything far more difficult.  We feel isolated now even though we are six month away from moving.  I can't imagine trying to meet new people and form new friendships in this environment.   

[FINate]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

[jehovasfitness23]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

[begood]

I’ll give you the advice I always hand to stranded liberals - look around for the nearest UU church and your local Quakers. That’s where you’ll meet your tribe.

Came here to say exactly this! When people can mingle again without fear of death, you can also look up Meet-Ups in your area, and there might be some now for outdoor activities like hiking.

We moved five times in seventeen years. What we learned is that it can take much longer than you think to make those true social connections, but also that you only need a few people to feel like you have a community. I do think those folks are out there - after all, YOU are there, so clearly it's possible. It's also true that you can find people with whom you share some common interest without having to align all your values perfectly. We had very good friends with whom we NEVER discussed politics.

[ltt]

Going from Boulder to rural Bible-belt/Amish country would be difficult at best.  Plus, you are homeschooling.  I know it's nice to be close to family.  I hate to bring up moving, but have you ever thought about moving to that larger, sizeable city that's 2 hours away?  Your children would still be "close" to the grandparents where weekend trips could be made.  Do you plan on continuing to homeschool?  We have, in the past, vacationed in rather rural, small areas (even though we are somewhat from a rural area already).  My husband made the suggestion that we move to one of those areas at one point.  My response was "no way."  They are good places to visit, but was not interested in settling there for reasons you have described.  At least in Boulder, even though housing prices were sky-high, you had access to a diverse group of other towns and Denver is only what--a little over an hour away, plus a vast array of activities and businesses along the front range of the Rockies was at your disposal.

You bolted many years ago for a reason, probably because you wanted a different lifestyle, and are now coming back for a different reason.  But the lifestyle of that area hasn't changed--only you have.  Things will probably become clearer as you have time to think through things.  If you are more of an urban/larger area/city person at heart, it will make a difference staying rural.   

[LongtimeLurker]

When I was younger and finding my way in the world, I always thought my dream was to move to a rural area a few hours away and live on a big plot of land. I still visit that area a few times each year, but I have found my affection has dimmed over the years. We once looked at buying a vacation home(I know, I know... its ok we didn't do it) there and spending the summer's in the area. In looking for homes in the community, we got to know some of the people there and hit the same problems the OP brings up. Political and cultural differences made me second my guess our decision. I don't have anything against the people who live there, but I realized how different of a person I am today and that I might not fit into that lifestyle anymore.

You can make it work. You can find a few new friends. The real question is... do you want to?

[GuitarStv]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

538 had a pretty good argument the other day about how the 'both sides' argument really falls flat when you look at the facts of how both parties in the US are operating.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/in-americas-uncivil-war-republicans-are-the-aggressors/

The right in the US today is significantly more violent and anti-democratic.  There isn't really a comparable movement on the left at the moment.  At some point people are going to have to accept that support of the current Republican party is support of the things for which the party stands - black voter suppression, denying legitimate democratic results, aggressive gerrymandering to subvert democracy, abusing state power to pre-empt laws passed in democratic cities, support of a president demanding quid pro quo co-operation against political enemies for foreign aid, etc.

That's not the kind of person that I'd want to move closer to be around.

[terran]

Reading between the lines it sounds like you're probably on the liberal end of the spectrum and only finding people on the conservative end? Guess who else is currently hunkered down, feeling lonely, and probably not out trying to make new friends or reconnect with old friends right now? All the other liberals. As others have said, now isn't really the time to decide that your new location isn't for you. Now's the time to embrace the hunker down, enjoy the home life, maybe form a bubble with your local family and wait this thing out. Once people have come out of their shells and you've tried to find people you like spending time with, if you still aren't enjoying your new location then maybe it's time to leave, but the current world isn't a good representation of normal life. I'd venture to guess you'd be feeling pretty lonely in your old location right now too.

[Imma]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

I went to college with an actual Stalinist, there are idiots on all sides of the political spectrum. I do think the probability of running into a community of hardcore Stalinists in 2021 is pretty low though.

I think "finding your tribe" refers to something more than just which party you vote for, but it's absolutely true that people who enjoy A and B are often more likely to vote for party Y over Z. And some people may not approve of certain lifestyle choices. Not only conservatives btw, a friend of mine was ditched by many of her liberal friends when she decided to be a SAH mother.

For example, I'm very much into growing our own food, and while I'm sure that especially in the countryside you'll also find many conservative people who are into that, in my urban area 75% +  people who enjoy that as well are on the left side of the political spectrum and are often also interested in environmentalism, sustainability, zero waste, vegetarian/vegan food etc. Is it important to me that my friends vote for the same political party as I do? Not at all, within reasonable limits (no to fascism, no to stalinism, no to people who believe in white supremacy, no to people who believe women shouldn't have the vote) but in the end at least 2/3  of our friends have relatively similar political views.

[FINate]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. I'm equally appalled by all the political violence in our nation this past year. I make no claims about numbers on either side, nor do I think it helpful. Rioting and assault and killing are plain wrong, both sides have guilty zealots. Is everyone that voted for Trump a Nazi? Is everyone on the Left part of Antifa? Are all Muslims terrorists? ... this way lies bigotry. Again, treat people as complex individuals.

[jehovasfitness23]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. I'm equally appalled by all the political violence in our nation this past year. I make no claims about numbers on either side, nor do I think it helpful. Rioting and assault and killing are plain wrong, both sides have guilty zealots. Is everyone that voted for Trump a Nazi? Is everyone on the Left part of Antifa? Are all Muslims terrorists? ... this way lies bigotry. Again, treat people as complex individuals.

AGain, both sides are nowhere close to equal.

https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/

[AlanStache]

OP: as you have already made the move I might suggest making the best of it and seeing how you are doing in 6months or a few years.  You can always move latter.  And if you do move then at least you will have learned that you did not like living "back home".  If you did not try it then you would never have known. 

[waltworks]

You moved to somewhere that sucks. It happens. FIRE is only fun if you're living the life you want.

Find where you actually want to live, and move there. Work a few more years if needed.

-W

[FINate]

Hi @HastyTortoise,


Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Overall I agree, but times are different. It's one thing to be conservative, it's another to be a MAGA, I have no desire to hang around with the latter as their morals and ability to accept reality don't lead me to want to engage with people that have the mind of a child.

I mostly agree, though will add that this exists and both extreme ends of the political spectrum.

Sorry, I don't buy that both sides argument. Sure, the far left can be a bit annoying when they go too far with cancel culture (at times) but that's nowhere near the same as the far right.

Nazis vs overly sensitive people

Sorry, I respectfully disagree. I'm equally appalled by all the political violence in our nation this past year. I make no claims about numbers on either side, nor do I think it helpful. Rioting and assault and killing are plain wrong, both sides have guilty zealots. Is everyone that voted for Trump a Nazi? Is everyone on the Left part of Antifa? Are all Muslims terrorists? ... this way lies bigotry. Again, treat people as complex individuals.

AGain, both sides are nowhere close to equal.

https://www.statista.com/chart/23886/capitol-riot-approval/

This is ridiculous. You've made the point you wanted to make about the Right being worse than the Left. Can we move on now, or are you going to keep banging that drum? The point I'm making, which you keep talking past is: don't look at a person and assume they are good or bad just because they put an X next to the R or D. Again, I know wonderful people on both sides. I do, however, avoid those who only want to talk about how great their side is or how evil the other side is because...well...it's terribly boring.

OP, I would keep trying to bridge those divides and be open to friendships even with disagreement, at least for a time after the pandemic ends. But that's just me, YMMV. If that doesn't work and if you cannot find other like-minded people in the area (doesn't seem promising based on your description) then you may need to move back to a city. While it wasn't a primary reason for our move, we left a place that was far left-of-left and intentionally looked for a city with more diversity of views. This has been a breath of fresh air, so I get it.

[CodingHare]

Maybe we can keep the politics talk to the many, many other threads that contain it?  I don't think it's super relevant to OP's question and it's been hashed a lot.

On topic: @HastyTortoise once COVID is over, do you plan to travel around a lot?  If you're idea of a good time is home as a base to go off and hike and explore from, you might feel a lot better once travel opens back up.

In your current community: maybe check Facebook/Nextdoor to see what local groups for activities exist that interest you.  Even with COVID the groups should still give you an idea of what's around.  Also whatever you are doing to introduce your kids to other kids means you have a built in opportunity to make friends with other parents.  If your library hosts events, haunt it!  :)

Long term, nothing prevents you from moving a bit closer to the city if you find that you get a significant happiness boost.  But to me your post makes it sound like you are the driven sort that goes and fixes things, works towards goals aggressively, GO GO GO.  And friendships and relationships take longer to build than that, so maybe you just need to cut yourself some slack for not having strong social group immediately after moving in?

[Dreamer40]

I agree with the people who say to give it more time. And to look for new people instead of trying to reconnect with the old ones you don't relate to anymore. I moved last summer and haven't started meeting new local people until literally one week ago. The pandemic makes it hard.

What helped me was joining the local faccebook groups. If you don't have any, check nextdoor and reddit. Maybe there are local mustachians even? Or stuff related to your kids? I also joined a local gardening facebook group because that's what I'm really into right now (I bought FIG TREES!!!). I spend way more time on social media than I used to, but it's honestly helpful right now. Over time, I'm learning about what the people in my area care about and what they're going through. Through these groups, someone mentioned a new book club, and suddenly I found myself in a group of 8 women talking about books over Marco Polo. It's a lot of fun and I feel like I have friends! I think if you can find a way to tap into your community, people will start to pop into your life and some of them might stick. It might take a little longer if your community has fewer people you relate to, but you'll find them eventually.

[scantee]

I would give it six more months. If at that time you are still unhappy, I would strongly consider moving. You can get a slower pace of life in areas where it is easier to meet people you share interests with. Smaller cities in the Midwest or college towns across the country sound like they would provide a good balance of not too hectic while having more social opportunities

As far as liberal/conservative conversation, my opinion is that it is normal to want to be around people who you share interests and values with. Is it possible to take that too far? Sure, of course. But it doesn’t sound like you’re doing that. Don’t feel bad if you do end up moving for this reason. You’re not required to live up to someone else’s ideas of what you should value in your relationships. You should be happy and if you need to move to find fulfilling relationships then so be it.

[scantee]

One more thing...

This is a very common mistake to make. Many people before you have romanticized rural life only to find out after moving that it is not for them. Think about renting for a year if you move again. That will give you a grace period to see if your next place is a good fit before you’re tied down by owning a home.

[mbl]

Hi @HastyTortoise,

Finally, about finding your tribe. I worry this is often code for finding people of the same political persuasion. Liberals finding liberals. Conservatives finding conservatives. IMO this is sad and unnecessary polarizing. I have dear friends who are hard core liberals and dear friends who are hard core conservatives. I'm a moderate so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

This is absolutely the most common sense post I've read on MMM in a long time.....well done!

[Panly]

As you have a very big house in a wonderful location,   couldn't you put up a room on AirBnB or something?   

You'll get to meet a variety of people.

 

[Us2bCool]

I'll add one more, similar story.

I had the opportunity to buy a lovely home on two acres outside my hometown after decades in the Big City. My daughter had just graduated high school, my parents are aging but healthy and active, and my brother who lives in town wanted a chance to get out into the world, and was relieved to have another person around. I figured it was a perfect situation, since I knew that any feelings of isolation or lack of connection would be made up for because I have to travel a lot for work and am expected to visit my home office from time to time. As with many other people here, I didn't expect to connect with my old friends. For me, it had been 32 years since I'd moved away. A lifetime!

What I did was join a local service club. Not only did it give me a chance to connect with new and interesting people, I ended up with a pretty tight group of friends fairly quickly.

It's also my experience that even in communities where you feel surrounded by people with different values, you'll find your people. It just sometimes takes some looking.

When COVID hit, the travel came to an end and my home office is shut down for the time being, and it is very lonely. But that's due to the pandemic, so I figure that's a universal thing.

[Metalcat]

Well first, I could never, ever move back to my hometown, and I'm actually really well aligned with the people there in terms of values. I just couldn't do it, I'd rather live in shared student housing for the rest of my life than go back "home".

So I get it if it turns out that it's just a bad move for you.

HOWEVER, there are a lot of ways to connect that don't require you being close to the people in your small town. My mother has lived in her town of under 1000 people for nearly 40 years and maintains all of her friendships with people from outside the town. She has too many ex husbands in the village, so it's impossible to socialize with someone without them being friends with one of her exes.

Most of her friends are an hour or two away, they connect by phone and either drive up to see her or she drives to see them. She has a friend she sees every time she drives out to Costco, and another friend she sees every time she drives out to her neurologist. She volunteers and takes courses in nearby larger towns and the closest city. She maintains a rich social network while only maintaining a neighbourly connection to the people in her town for the most part. Every once in awhile she'll make a village friend, but it's not her main source of connection.

I live downtown in an urban center, surrounded by people, and most of my closest connections don't live here, so I stay in touch with them mostly by phone. My nearest good friend is over an hour away.

You may have to be more proactive in making connections and fostering them, but you're not as limited as you think you are.

Again though, if you just can't live in your hometown, I totally get that. Set me on fire if I'm ever forced to move back to mine. Actually, copy that for all small towns. Not my thing.

[jpdx]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

[Dreamer40]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

Yeah, there are some very rural liberal communities (or should we call them “communes?” Lol) is parts of California. Like often tucked away in hilly areas. But they aren’t usually cheap anymore. College towns can be more progressive regardless of location, and the rural outskirts of those towns are probably pretty cheap. Like an acquaintance ended up becoming a professor in Salt Lake City and was pleasantly surprised to quickly find liberal friends, despite the prevailing conservative views in the community.

[waltworks]

Mountain towns in the west *can* be pretty blue/liberal, or at least mixed. But the ones you'd want to live in aren't cheap anymore thanks to WFH.

There's quite a bit of small town New England that is politically mixed/liberal and also fairly rural, too. Hobby farmers and hippies and mountain bikers and such are common.

The rural midwest, though? Yeah, if you don't like being around conservative people, good luck.

I think the thing that jumps out at me about the OP most is the house that was for sale for _10 years_. If nobody in the whole area wanted this house (presumably for super cheap), that's a sign that the OP's "tribe" is not going to be found there.

-W

[Rhinodad]

Hi @HastyTortoise,

I'm INTELLIGENT so I disagree with all of them, LOL. Judginess and intolerance knows no political boundaries. The solution is simple, don't hang out with judgy people. In other words, approach people as complex individuals instead of simple ideologues.

Fixed that for you

[Villanelle]

Because my spouse is in the military, we've moved a lot and experienced many places, and I am absolutely certain that some places just aren't great fits for some people, no matter how hard they try. There's a lid for every pot, but that means some lids aren't going to fit some pots, not due to damage or defect but simply because of the inherent shape of the pot. 

We know what we need to maximize happiness, and what things will be sacrifices but sacrifices that have fairly minimal effect on our overall happiness.  And we know that things are essentially non-negotiables.  For us, we need vibrant city and walkable neighborhoods and easy-ish access to a large airport for travel. We want to be able to go to quality theater productions without spending 3 hours in the car.  We will likely spend years extra in the workforce so that we an afford the type of place in which we want to live. 

Generally, I would suggest someone in your shoes keep trying a bit longer, especially post-Covid, but the somewhat difficult element is that you are about to quit work.  If you decide you want to move, it sounds like you might not be able to afford to do so as at that point you wouldn't have the option of OMY-ing your way from LCOL to MCOL.

That said, I'd still be researching areas that have what you are looking for but might still be LCOL or at least LMCOL. Likely a university town would have some of what you are missing, and also probably more people who are new to the area so that you aren't dealing with a place where everyone has known everyone since birt.   Meanwhile, when it is safe to do so, get out into the community.  Volunteer.  Join groups.  Put yourself out there, even if it is uncomfortable.  You may still be able to salvage this, but I'd also give myself permission to call it quits at some point as well, if those efforts don't work. 

[Cranky]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

I would generally say that rural areas are on the whole conservative, by their nature. Agriculture and a less dense population mean that their economies are different from a dense urban area, and they are often less diverse as well, but not necessarily. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t liberals in those areas, just that you need to work a bit harder to locate them.

The political parties sometimes change positions, too. I live in an area which until recently was so solidly Democrat that Republicans didn’t bother putting up candidates. That has very much changed, partly for economic reasons but partly because the parties have changed their positions on things like immigration.

[Watchmaker]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

There may not be many of them, I don't know, but the Midwest town I live in is small, rural, low cost, and progressive.

But, back on the subject--you've moved at a pretty odd time in history. I'd give it at least until the pandemic is over to see what you really think. And I echo the advice about to forget about re-connecting with old friends and just try to find new people you like.

[MayDay]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

In MN, for example, most of our rural areas are very MAGA, but this one county (Cook County) is very liberal. So you can find them for sure but they are the exception.

[Villanelle]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

I've never lived there, but several friends have and I think Omaha might qualify. 

[MMMarbleheader]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

Most Of Vermont, western ma, and coastal Maine fits that bill.

I read a great article about why the hippies and republican Yankees got along so well in VT was that the republican yankees were never socially conservative and didn’t find what the hippies were Doing ( growing food, heating with wood, sugaring, etc) all that out there because they did it too. They were also both very thrifty and minded their own business.

I live in a small town in VT that should be trump central but is solidly liberal. Bring near Dartmouth helps but there is a high level of trust among neighbors that you don’t get in other parts of the country

Interesting fact: vT and Alabama have never voted for the same presidential candidate

[FINate]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

I've never lived there, but several friends have and I think Omaha might qualify.

Omaha's metro area population is about 1M, don't think it counts as rural.

[jehovasfitness23]

This thread makes me wonder, are there any places in America that are rural and have progressive values? It seems like there is a significant demand for progressives who want to find community in the countryside. Of course, once they find each other, the LCOL won't be low for long.

Most Of Vermont, western ma, and coastal Maine fits that bill.

can attest to coastal Maine. We were in central Maine over the summer and it was 90% MAGA country, very bizarre given everything.

Anyway, soon as we hit the coast near Portland it was total opposite and BLM signs and banners all over.

[Just Joe]

At least anyone trying to relocate and settle in 2021 presumably has social media and the internet. Communication and getting plugged in is easier than it could be back when people were solely reliant on radio or the newspaper to find out about events.

When we settled here in this small town the newspaper would publicize events after they happened. The paper would attend and write it up. Still not certain that wasn't intentional to exclude some people.

When I was in the military I had one duty station where I stationed but I traveled alot. Never did settle into that city. Always a visitor it seemed. Single so frequently relocated too. 

[mcluhan]

I spent four years trying to fit into a very unwelcoming place. I'm trying to view it as a learning experience, but I really wish I would have set a time limit of two years and then moved.

[FINate]

The WSJ published a piece [sorry, paywall] yesterday about those who moved during the pandemic and now have regrets. I think most people experience some form of buyer's remorse after a big move, makes sense that moving quickly without doing due diligence would amplify this. I still think OP should give it a little more time since they are originally from the area and presumably didn't rush into it completely unaware.

I wonder, though, how many of the urbanites that decamped to the boondocks will return to some type of city after the pandemic ends. It is more difficult to establish community in a rural area where friendships are measured in decades and outsiders are viewed with suspicion. Most outings involve an annoying amount of driving. Fast, reliable internet isn't usually an option. And then there's a bunch of stuff people don't even know to consider such as: issues with wells/water supply, maintaining private roads, and having to snowplow your mile long driveway, to list a few. Some people don't mind these things, more power to them! But I think many will reassess after the first winter.

The good news is that there are a ton of smaller cities with many of the benefits of rural life (slower pace of life, lower cost of living) without the headaches. And many of these small cities are somewhat liberal-ish. Look for small cities with a university and/or a natural food market such as Whole Foods or similar. Two examples in my corner of the country, Walla Walla, WA and Eugene, OR.