Future of America/What Do Parents (or Parents to be) Worry About

[MrsCoolCat]

Hi! *I'm thinking about updating this more to what are your thoughts on the future of America regarding the issues I listed below:
Ok, I need to say please try not to leave depressed, suicidal or down trodden with what I listed below. They're just topics. These things worry me but I can still sleep pretty damn well at night. I like to engage in conversation and thought, but at the end of the day I acknowledge all the bad so that there can only be good left. Granted it would be MUCH easier to just acknowledge and highlight the positive, but that's not how I think. I guess I was expecting more neutral, optimistic or sarcastic replies than some participating and sounding quite depressed after reading my thread. Idk I guess I'm just weird, but if you leave with anything from this thread please let it be hope at the end of the tunnel.

Ok, maybe I think too much & worry about things outside of my control or too far into the future but aside from things like please let my kid not be evil or get taken before his or her time by evil, what kinda things do you care or worry about when it comes to your kid's future? To elaborate all this talk about raising the minimum wage, jobs being lost to automation/technology, Trump possibly being our next President, increasing college school debt, America's increasing debt, retail companies like Macy's losing profits (i.e. less retail jobs), etc. I can't but help wonder what kind of a world my kids are going to be brought into. So many things are a matter of timing, some luck & others perhaps brute ambition and/or brain power. I don't know.

I just feel like I may have lucked out but god forbid my kid is not the "smartest"/smart enough or the one that can hustle the best and then what? Are they going to be unemployed or work at a minimum wage job and live with me until he or she is 40? If I do FIRE early & eventually have kids I'm thinking I may need to try to get a PT job (if the companies haven't automated & outsourced everyth yet) just to secretly help them. Anyone else can relate and/or what helped you overcome these worries/fears?

[bobechs]

Could be even worse than you fear (could be better than that, too.)

But I wouldn't worry about it.

[MrsCoolCat]

That sounds like good advice. Perhaps I should have focused on so what's everyone's prediction on the future of America particularly pertaining to the issues I listed?

[bobechs]

Oh, it's definitely going to be worse than you think, across the board.

You completely omitted climate change and its knock-on effects, for example...

I was just trying to make you feel better.

[okits]

I worry about everything.  But in the end you do your absolute best with what you have, and you roll the dice and hope things turn out well.  Finding a way to keep perspective helps. 

[alsoknownasDean]

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/03/the-practical-benefits-of-outrageous-optimism/

:)

[LaineyAZ]

I have an adult son in banking with a position that I believe will be automated in 10 year or less.  So I've thought more about the real estate landlord thing as an income source if/when job loss occurs.  (I'm retiring next year with a pension so am not concerned about this for myself).
When I pass on he will inherit my house and a little rental house.  I think the income from these 2 will be enough to at least sustain his household in a minimum way.
Now if climate change occurs faster than predicted and Arizona is a drought-stricken triple digit mess year round, then the best option will be for him to move back East with the relatives..!

[mxt0133]

I'll play.  I would be worried about war.  Seems like we are due for another major conflict between the super powers US, Russia, and China.  I don't really care if I have to go off to war but I would be heart broken if my children had to be go due to a sense of patriotism or draft.  For those that think our next world war will be nuclear and not conventional warfare, I would actually prefer that and just go out in a flash, but I don't see the logic in destroying the thing that your are actually fighting for, natural resources and human capital.

[EMP]

I worry that my husband will stroke out from anxiety related to having kids. But that's not the sort of thing you can know ahead of time.

[MrsCoolCat]

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/10/03/the-practical-benefits-of-outrageous-optimism/

:)

Thanks! That was a nice long read that I actually read all the way through! After reading it I realized that I'm not afraid of failure or someone saying no. I think it's much worse to just be stuck in a situation because you never tried. If you tried and you're still stuck at least there won't be any regrets on my part for trying.

[franklin w. dixon]

I'll play.  I would be worried about war.  Seems like we are due for another major conflict between the super powers US, Russia, and China.  I don't really care if I have to go off to war but I would be heart broken if my children had to be go due to a sense of patriotism or draft.  For those that think our next world war will be nuclear and not conventional warfare, I would actually prefer that and just go out in a flash, but I don't see the logic in destroying the thing that your are actually fighting for, natural resources and human capital.

The other day someone asked me why I named my son Norman and I said it was in honor of the war hero Norman Bethune. She said, "What, do you want your son to die in a war?" and I said, "No, but if he does die I want him to die for a good reason. Mao said that to work for the fascists and die for the reactionaries is as light as a feather, but to die for the people is heavier than Mount Tai." And she said that I'm weird. wow rude

[mxt0133]

Mao said that to work for the fascists and die for the reactionaries is as light as a feather, but to die for the people is heavier than Mount Tai

No disrespect to those that have fought for their country and sacrificed everything for what they believe in.  But I would rather out live my children than to survive them. Having them fight in a war significantly increases the probability of the later.  Which is why I have dual citizenship for my family, if shit hit's the fan we have options.

[Yaeger]

Mao said that to work for the fascists and die for the reactionaries is as light as a feather, but to die for the people is heavier than Mount Tai

No disrespect to those that have fought for their country and sacrificed everything for what they believe in.  But I would rather out live my children than to survive them. Having them fight in a war significantly increases the probability of the later.  Which is why I have dual citizenship for my family, if shit hit's the fan we have options.

This is why I hope they bring back the draft. Public service, like the military, is the duty of every citizen as much as taxation. You'll give the same platitudes about how proud you are of their sacrifice and how much you respect our service members, but your actions and deeds say otherwise. The reason we've gotten away with sending troops in the midst of so many conflicts is because of the increasing separation of the public from the military.

[sokoloff]

No disrespect to those that have fought for their country and sacrificed everything for what they believe in.  But I would rather out live my children than to survive them.

Aren't "out live" and "survive them" synonyms?

[pbkmaine]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned global pandemic.

[Syonyk]

And this is why I intend to train my daughter on a wide range of useful skills.

[ohana]

Oh, it's definitely going to be worse than you think, across the board.

You completely omitted climate change and its knock-on effects, for example...

I was just trying to make you feel better.

Yes, this.

We decided not to have kids because of climate change.  Seriously.

[SeaEhm]

I would suggest that people spend a lot of time developing children with a high EQ.

No good will come out of your son/daughter if they come to a point in life that their emotional instability masks all of their or a large majority of their potential. 

[Yaeger]

Oh, it's definitely going to be worse than you think, across the board.

You completely omitted climate change and its knock-on effects, for example...

I was just trying to make you feel better.

Yes, this.

We decided not to have kids because of climate change.  Seriously.

Really? This is the most paranoid and ridiculous thing to base having children over. In the next 100 years the global temperature might raise 1 degree and sea levels will rise about 1 foot. Your children probably won't even notice it.

[EnjoyIt]

I worry that we are getting closer and closer to Europe with regards to socialism and government debt. 
I worry that if we ever stop being the world currency, the dollar will devalue so dramatically it will force all us FIRE people back to work or be forced to work well into our 60s and 70s.

[Syonyk]

I worry that we are getting closer and closer to Europe with regards to socialism and government debt.

Those waffly poffly namby pamby flif flaffs?  We'll have the Best Socialism!  And the Most Debt!  #1!  USA!

I worry that if we ever stop being the world currency, the dollar will devalue so dramatically it will force all us FIRE people back to work or be forced to work well into our 60s and 70s.

If you're worried about that (which I think is certainly plausible if one expects to live another 50+ years - fiat currencies have a lifespan, and the dollar is well beyond the median), it makes sense to invest in "useful things, skills, and resources."  So, for instance, if the dollar is going to devalue, having a garden with rich soil is probably a good thing to have around.  Having the knowledge to grow chickens/rabbits/goats/etc would also be useful - not just for feeding yourself, but if you have surplus, for selling and for taking care of neighbors.  Community will matter in a situation like that.

The same can be said of solar/wind/insulation/etc.  If you rent, you're probably boned.  If you own your house and land, great.  And if you have a fixed rate mortgage, that'll be easy to pay off.  Pay off your last $50k for a few eggs, or something like that.  Perhaps.

Taxes & such will be a problem, as they'll go up, but that's an advantage of cheaper property and low cost of living areas.

It's certainly not the common wisdom around here ("Invest in index funds, 4%, GO!"), but it's a variant - and I would certainly suggest keeping some money in the markets in case the can kicking continues longer than expected.

But if you set out to be able to provide for the bulk of your own needs in 10-20 years, you can get there, and that is a huge amount of hedging against dollar collapse.  I'd encourage trying to build local community as well vs "extreme prepper in the woods," but that's just me.

[big_slacker]

I think kids have a ton of advantages these days, mostly in unlimited access to info. I think they'll be ok, but there are some things I worry about:

#1 Food: Nutrition in the US is a joke. Obesity is at 35% and overweight + obese almost 70%! But we continue to put our heads in the sand and say we don't have a problem. And the solution isn't to start snorting statins at age 24 until you die so you can keep pounding big macs and hot pockets. The super sad thing about this one is that we know what works (see the blue zones diets/lifestyles) but that is considered extreme where lifelong drug use, cracking your chest open and rerouting clogged arteries or stapling your stomach to a tiny size is super normal. :(

#2 Consumerist culture vs real purpose: We all know this one from this site. But I feel it'll be a real struggle to keep my kids out of this unless they go out of the system for their start of adulthood like I did. Even then it's easy to get sucked in.

#3 The environment: We're fucking it up. People care about it enough to recycle and so on, but I truly hope we move away from our reliance on dirty fuel, dirty manufacturing, disposable possessions and so on. I hope it will be enough to reverse what we've done.

[tobitonic]

I think kids have a ton of advantages these days, mostly in unlimited access to info. I think they'll be ok, but there are some things I worry about:

#1 Food: Nutrition in the US is a joke. Obesity is at 35% and overweight + obese almost 70%! But we continue to put our heads in the sand and say we don't have a problem. And the solution isn't to start snorting statins at age 24 until you die so you can keep pounding big macs and hot pockets. The super sad thing about this one is that we know what works (see the blue zones diets/lifestyles) but that is considered extreme where lifelong drug use, cracking your chest open and rerouting clogged arteries or stapling your stomach to a tiny size is super normal. :(

#2 Consumerist culture vs real purpose: We all know this one from this site. But I feel it'll be a real struggle to keep my kids out of this unless they go out of the system for their start of adulthood like I did. Even then it's easy to get sucked in.

#3 The environment: We're fucking it up. People care about it enough to recycle and so on, but I truly hope we move away from our reliance on dirty fuel, dirty manufacturing, disposable possessions and so on. I hope it will be enough to reverse what we've done.

High five for the Blue Zones mention (and everything in your post). It's the guiding approach to my family's diet patterns, but it's just One More Thing I can't really talk about with most people (like buying used cars, being a single income household, having a paid off house, etc), because it's too far out of the norm in this country--or at least in most parts of it. I imagine in some of the bluest parts of the country things might be different, although your second point, the consumerism, still has quite a hold, and then the people around you just want to talk about shopping at organic grocery stores and eating at gluten-free restaurants instead of living simply, eating simply (like actual poor people around the world!), and sharing resources.

And regarding the environment, the phrase reduce, reuse, recycle (in that order) comes to mind. As a species, we're still very much struggling to evolve past greed into sustainable living (i.e., sharing and reduced consumption) with each other, much less with the earth. It all ties into purpose and sustainability. If we don't see the earth as something that belongs to everyone (i.e., a sustainable, sharing, humility, and empathy-based mindset), we see no need to preserve the environment, to limit our consumption, to reduce human or other-species suffering, or to think twice about the poisons we allow corporations to feed us.

Everything is connected, and we need to share a lot more. Until we get this as a species, we're going to continue to propel a lot of suffering around the globe.

[Schaefer Light]

Terrorism.  Specifically, ISIS and other Muslim terrorist organizations.  It's only a matter of time before they hit us at home.  Imagine being scared to go to a restaurant, sporting event, or other public gathering place.  People in some countries have to deal with that fear every day.  We're lucky to have huge bodies of water on either side of us, but it's still just a matter of time before something happens here.

[okonumiyaki]

Zombies.  Zombies that will eat our brains.  Either that or sparkling vampires. 

But at least they will eat the muslim terrorists, so I will be able to go to a sporting event without fear.

[JCfire]

My great-great-grandfather fought in the civil war.  He lost the war and a leg.  He probably worried alot about how the local economy would get on without slavery, without his friends who died in the war, and with reconstruction and yankee carpetbaggers muddying the waters.  My great grandparents were mostly sharecroppers who had plenty to worry about, but one of the things must have been how their children would ever be able to compete with huge farms with growing amounts of industrial machinery and economies of scale at their disposal.  Surely enough, none of my grandparents were in the farming business any longer -- one became a pest control technician (he sprayed concentrated pesticides outdoors for 35 years).  He lived through the depression and WWII, and likely worried a great deal about how his children's generation would deal with the global communist threat and advent of nuclear weapons and god knows what else.  My parents worried about whether I'd be an entitled sissy millennial, what I would encounter on the internet as a child, whether I would keep my job in 2008 or have to move back home unemployed, and that's just what they told me about.


I don't have the foresight to know what the biggest real worries will be during my childrens' life.  So I will just equip them to evaluate what is going on and react as well or better than I could.  I will worry about a bunch of irrelevant things, and they will shake their heads and think "that crazy oldster has no idea what the world is really like these days", and they'll probably be right, but the joke's on them because I still saw that coming a mile away!

[J Boogie]

Mao said that to work for the fascists and die for the reactionaries is as light as a feather, but to die for the people is heavier than Mount Tai

No disrespect to those that have fought for their country and sacrificed everything for what they believe in.  But I would rather out live my children than to survive them. Having them fight in a war significantly increases the probability of the later.  Which is why I have dual citizenship for my family, if shit hit's the fan we have options.

This is why I hope they bring back the draft. Public service, like the military, is the duty of every citizen as much as taxation. You'll give the same platitudes about how proud you are of their sacrifice and how much you respect our service members, but your actions and deeds say otherwise. The reason we've gotten away with sending troops in the midst of so many conflicts is because of the increasing separation of the public from the military.

Sounds like we've got an Andrew Bacevich fan here.  I too enjoy his books.

Yaeger's comment here might sound a bit harsh, but I think there is a good argument to be made about how our transition to a volunteer military created a more apathetic political environment with respect to foreign policy.  The everyday citizen no longer has any skin in the game.

I don't think we should bring back the draft tomorrow, as it would be a disaster, but I think its worth thinking about.  I recommend reading any of Andrew Bacevich's books.

[Digital Dogma]

I worry about sticking around for another 20-30 years after I have a kid so I don't fuck it up by dying early.

[mak1277]

I worry that the way I would prefer to raise my (still non-existent) children will slowly be made illegal in the US. 

[Northwestie]

Well, it could be worse indeed.  We've made great strides in medicine - you live A LOT longer than your great-great grandparents, the US economy is doing decent, world poverty has decreased from 30% to 15% in the past 35 years, we are continually becoming more energy efficient.

The wealth gap in the US is an issues - we are just not investing in ourselves anymore.  Do we really need to be spending as much as the next 18 countries combined, most of which are our allies.  Couldn't this money be put to better long-term uses - education, infrastructure, jobs?   

On the down side - there's that global climate thing.  IMO, it is going to be the largest source of variability in the coming decades.  Florida, coastal LA, Bangladesh - there is going to be some big expenses in infrastructure and human migration - -oh, and water deficits from shrinking glaciers.

[winkeyman]

Mao said that to work for the fascists and die for the reactionaries is as light as a feather, but to die for the people is heavier than Mount Tai

No disrespect to those that have fought for their country and sacrificed everything for what they believe in.  But I would rather out live my children than to survive them. Having them fight in a war significantly increases the probability of the later.  Which is why I have dual citizenship for my family, if shit hit's the fan we have options.

This is why I hope they bring back the draft. Public service, like the military, is the duty of every citizen as much as taxation. You'll give the same platitudes about how proud you are of their sacrifice and how much you respect our service members, but your actions and deeds say otherwise. The reason we've gotten away with sending troops in the midst of so many conflicts is because of the increasing separation of the public from the military.

Sounds like we've got an Andrew Bacevich fan here.  I too enjoy his books.

Yaeger's comment here might sound a bit harsh, but I think there is a good argument to be made about how our transition to a volunteer military created a more apathetic political environment with respect to foreign policy.  The everyday citizen no longer has any skin in the game.

I don't think we should bring back the draft tomorrow, as it would be a disaster, but I think its worth thinking about.  I recommend reading any of Andrew Bacevich's books.

The general population of this forum loves taxation, but sees the draft as repugnant. It doesn't make sense, but there it is.

My wife and I are not sure if we will have kids or not. Mostly for economic reasons. They say my generation will be the first in a century or two that will have a lower standard of living than the one before. I see that happening everywhere around me and I do not see that trend reversing. It makes me hesitant to have kids.

[Northwestie]

Interestingly Warren Buffet has the opposite take on our kid's future:

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/warren-buffett-and-our-kid's-future/

[MrsPete]

I don't worry about wars and climate change because they're not things I can control.  The best I can do is manage my own assets well and teach my kids a wide variety of skills that'll be useful in a changing world. 

Things I do worry about and teach my kids -- and some of this comes from teaching school and seeing a whopping number of kids who are woefully unprepared for the world:

- Don't live your life online.  Sooooo many of my students would rather play with their phones than do anything else. They are literally addicts, and overdosing on screen time is tremendously detrimental to them.  Compared to my students from years ago, they read less, read with lesser comprehension, are less creative, and have poorer social skills.  We worked against this with our own children by requiring all cell phones (parents included) to be on the kitchen counter after 9:00 at night, and we limited screen time. 

- Learn time management.  This has long been a bug-a-boo with teenagers, but it's an important skill.  Someone else mentioned EQ, and that's closely related.  Kids need to learn that all of us MUST do certain tasks that aren't fun, things we'd just as soon skip, but things that are necessary.  We can't expect kids to suddenly grasp this once they become adults.   

- Train for a job that has a good chance of actually being available.  No, you're not going to play for the NFL, or become a rock star, or whatever else.  I'm very pleased that my recent college graduate daughter is a nurse:  It's a job that people will always need, and it's not something that can be shipped overseas via computer.  High schools have great "trades" training programs, as do community colleges.  So many good options exist.

- Avoid debt of all types, live on less than you earn, spend consciously, save from a young age.  Financial stability makes the rest of your life so much easier. 

- Homemaking skills.  We've turned into a society in which large numbers of people don't know how to cook a meal beyond Hamburger Helper, can't sew on a button, don't know how to fix a toilet.  Yet every last one of us needs these skills.  I lean towards thinking cooking is the single most important of these skills because we use it each and every day, and because people who don't know how to cook tend to over-spend at restaurants. 

[MrsPete]

My wife and I are not sure if we will have kids or not. Mostly for economic reasons. They say my generation will be the first in a century or two that will have a lower standard of living than the one before. I see that happening everywhere around me and I do not see that trend reversing. It makes me hesitant to have kids.

I was born in the late 60s, and they said the same thing about my generation.  It isn't true.  My friends and I seem to enjoy a standard of living that is higher than our parents at our same age.  I think this is true for several reasons:  Most of us have two children, whereas our parents' generation tended towards 3-5; it's a big difference in our spending.  We also enjoyed some excellent stock market years in our youth, and that provided a big boost to those of us who were investing young.  We had some setbacks too; for example, we bought houses at high interest rates, and those houses haven't appreciated like our parents' houses. 

I remember my father saying that my generation would not have a middle class.  Again, it hasn't proven true. 

I look at my early-20 year old children and their friends, and I think those in the "upper class" -- meaning educated or possessing a useful skill -- will have a chance to do better than my generation.  I feel quite sure that my oldest and her fiance will be significantly more wealthy than my husband and me.  But I think for those in the "lower class", it'll be harder and harder to break out of that group.  Likewise, I think it'll be harder for their generation to overcome early-adult mistakes (like big debt in their 20s). 

[Bajadoc]

I'm 58 years old and have been hearing about impending doom since I can remember. When I was in high school the big hysteria was "the coming ice age." It was going to get too cold to grow food! Ice was going to cover the earth, now it is all melting away, oh no. Now it is "global warming" or "climate change." The Russians were going to drop "the bomb" on us any time so we had to practice getting under our desks. Long lines for gasoline, we are running out, what will we do! Wall street and the big banks are stealing all the money (I'm not spending it, no not me). Around 1980 home loans had interest rates of 18 to 20 percent. Nobody will ever be able to buy a home again! Bad stuff can happen. My father had to drop everything he was doing at 21 years of age and go fight Nazis. Worrying about all this stuff at the expense of not living your life to its fullest is not worth it. Turn off the TeeVee, live, laugh, love. Full speed ahead, damn the torpedoes!

[winkeyman]

My wife and I are not sure if we will have kids or not. Mostly for economic reasons. They say my generation will be the first in a century or two that will have a lower standard of living than the one before. I see that happening everywhere around me and I do not see that trend reversing. It makes me hesitant to have kids.

I was born in the late 60s, and they said the same thing about my generation.  It isn't true.  My friends and I seem to enjoy a standard of living that is higher than our parents at our same age.  I think this is true for several reasons:  Most of us have two children, whereas our parents' generation tended towards 3-5; it's a big difference in our spending.  We also enjoyed some excellent stock market years in our youth, and that provided a big boost to those of us who were investing young.  We had some setbacks too; for example, we bought houses at high interest rates, and those houses haven't appreciated like our parents' houses. 

I remember my father saying that my generation would not have a middle class.  Again, it hasn't proven true. 

I look at my early-20 year old children and their friends, and I think those in the "upper class" -- meaning educated or possessing a useful skill -- will have a chance to do better than my generation.  I feel quite sure that my oldest and her fiance will be significantly more wealthy than my husband and me.   But I think for those in the "lower class", it'll be harder and harder to break out of that group.  Likewise, I think it'll be harder for their generation to overcome early-adult mistakes (like big debt in their 20s).

Good points. I am pushing 30, my wife is mid-20s.  I know my parents, their friends, and my aunts/uncles etc look at my wife and I, and some of our peers, and say the same thing, that we are positioned to do very well.

However, my wife and I and most of our peers do not have children. The reason we have the appearance of doing well is because we are dual-income/no-kids. We were all raised by 2-income families, daycares, babysitters etc. We are determined NOT to have kids unless and until one parent is able to stop working.

Once one half of the "seems to be doing great DINK millennial" couple drops out of the workforce for 10+ years, those prospects don't look so good.

[mistershankly]

Good points. I am pushing 30, my wife is mid-20s.  I know my parents, their friends, and my aunts/uncles etc look at my wife and I, and some of our peers, and say the same thing, that we are positioned to do very well.

However, my wife and I and most of our peers do not have children. The reason we have the appearance of doing well is because we are dual-income/no-kids. We were all raised by 2-income families, daycares, babysitters etc. We are determined NOT to have kids unless and until one parent is able to stop working.

Once one half of the "seems to be doing great DINK millennial" couple drops out of the workforce for 10+ years, those prospects don't look so good.

Your goal of raising kids on one income with a SAHP is totally valid and would best benefit your future children.  I can tell you from personal experience (and being an older parent of a toddler) that there will never be a perfect time to have kids.  Having two income streams begets larger financial goals and as those goals get closer to being met, the "opportunity cost" of having children under one income rather than setting higher goals on two incomes will become more frustrating. The planning you are doing with an MMM lifestyle is fantastic and will help you adjust through any scenario but don't put starting a family (if that is your goal) too far off on the back burner.  Raising children doesn't have to be as expensive as the numbers you see being thrown around these days. 

[Northwestie]

Plus - who wants to go to high school graduations when they are 60?

[winkeyman]

Good points. I am pushing 30, my wife is mid-20s.  I know my parents, their friends, and my aunts/uncles etc look at my wife and I, and some of our peers, and say the same thing, that we are positioned to do very well.

However, my wife and I and most of our peers do not have children. The reason we have the appearance of doing well is because we are dual-income/no-kids. We were all raised by 2-income families, daycares, babysitters etc. We are determined NOT to have kids unless and until one parent is able to stop working.

Once one half of the "seems to be doing great DINK millennial" couple drops out of the workforce for 10+ years, those prospects don't look so good.

Your goal of raising kids on one income with a SAHP is totally valid and would best benefit your future children.  I can tell you from personal experience (and being an older parent of a toddler) that there will never be a perfect time to have kids.  Having two income streams begets larger financial goals and as those goals get closer to being met, the "opportunity cost" of having children under one income rather than setting higher goals on two incomes will become more frustrating. The planning you are doing with an MMM lifestyle is fantastic and will help you adjust through any scenario but don't put starting a family (if that is your goal) too far off on the back burner. Raising children doesn't have to be as expensive as the numbers you see being thrown around these days.

I agree that the cost in terms of diapers and food and clothes and books and so forth doesn't have to be huge (no $1000 cribs, $500 strollers and designer baby clothes in our future). But in my mind, the cost would be the lost income from whoever stays home to raise the kid. With both my wife and I working, we do very well and should be able to retire in 10 years or so at 35 and 40. With only one of us working and the other at home with a kid, we would be semi-struggling and retirement would look much more like the "traditional" timeline of 65+ years old.

Here is another way I look at it, in terms of what I worry about. Right now if either me or my wife lost our jobs, we would be just fine, indefinitely. We would still be able to pay all our bills and save modestly. If we both lost our jobs at the same time (highly unlikely), we would be able to survive. We would be scraping by, might need to move, work multiple part time jobs, bartend into the early hours of the morning, whatever. For us, that would suck but we have done it before and life goes on.

If my wife stopped working to stay at home with a kid and I got laid off, we might not be able to scrape by. Losing a house or moving, working multiple part time jobs, late nights, etc would all be on the table. With a kid in the picture, that prospect seems less "this sucks but we'll get by" and more "holy shit terrifying I am a failure as a parent what have I done" to me.

[Metric Mouse]

Plus - who wants to go to high school graduations when they are 60?

Yeah, you'll never pick up anyone at that age!

[acroy]

raising the minimum wage, jobs being lost to automation/technology, Trump possibly being our next President, increasing college school debt, America's increasing debt, retail companies like Macy's losing profits (i.e. less retail jobs)..........

Stop worrying.
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/10/07/how-big-is-your-circle-of-control/

Those things are outside your control, and honestly, the majority of it is 'much ado about nothing'. As others have said, the doom-and-gloomers are in perpetual business cycle. Fear sells, and causes us to worry about things which have little or no impact on our life, instead of spending our time and effort on positive productive things. Stop reading the scary headlines, Turn it off!!

IT IS A GREAT TIME TO BE ALIVE.  Probably the best time IN HISTORY. We are incredibly blessed with peace, security, plenty. Go enjoy it!!

[undercover]

I don't worry about the world ending because nearly everyone's world is going to end sooner or later from what people have been saying.

[StarBright]

I think kids have a ton of advantages these days, mostly in unlimited access to info. I think they'll be ok, but there are some things I worry about:

#1 Food: Nutrition in the US is a joke. Obesity is at 35% and overweight + obese almost 70%! But we continue to put our heads in the sand and say we don't have a problem. And the solution isn't to start snorting statins at age 24 until you die so you can keep pounding big macs and hot pockets. The super sad thing about this one is that we know what works (see the blue zones diets/lifestyles) but that is considered extreme where lifelong drug use, cracking your chest open and rerouting clogged arteries or stapling your stomach to a tiny size is super normal. :(

#2 Consumerist culture vs real purpose: We all know this one from this site. But I feel it'll be a real struggle to keep my kids out of this unless they go out of the system for their start of adulthood like I did. Even then it's easy to get sucked in.

#3 The environment: We're fucking it up. People care about it enough to recycle and so on, but I truly hope we move away from our reliance on dirty fuel, dirty manufacturing, disposable possessions and so on. I hope it will be enough to reverse what we've done.

+1 ing all of this - though I'm not as worried about Consumerist Culture. Our financial system is based on it and there really isn't much of an alternative in place yet (I actually think a basic income type scheme could help curb this a bit- but that is a different post :))

#3 - I'm not in the world is going to end camp, but I do feel very strongly about living somewhere that can essentially sustain life with its own resources. We had a chance to move to southern, inland CA recently and after a lot of discussing turned it down. I feel weird about living somewhere that requires constant temperature mediation and borrowed water. We ended up in OH and I like that we can grow gardens and have rain and we make due without AC for most of the summer because we have good airflow in our place. We do use heat in the winter but that feels more natural somehow. Additionally, superstorms are no joke and there are certainly more of them. I suspect the people that are hypothesizing mass migrations due to climate change are probably correct.

Also - Nutrition is scary but I keep hearing things that make me think the tide is turning. Soda sales are dropping, fast food chains are being forced to add healthier items to menus to compete, the rise in childhood obesity has stalled, etc.

Aside from these items - I'm concerned about the fallout from a shrinking middle class (though I know the expanded middle class of the 50s-90s may prove to be an historical anomaly). 

[MrsPete]

Good points. I am pushing 30, my wife is mid-20s.  I know my parents, their friends, and my aunts/uncles etc look at my wife and I, and some of our peers, and say the same thing, that we are positioned to do very well.

However, my wife and I and most of our peers do not have children. The reason we have the appearance of doing well is because we are dual-income/no-kids. We were all raised by 2-income families, daycares, babysitters etc. We are determined NOT to have kids unless and until one parent is able to stop working.

Once one half of the "seems to be doing great DINK millennial" couple drops out of the workforce for 10+ years, those prospects don't look so good.

I do have children, as do most of our friends -- mine are grown and one's finished with college.  We are not exceptionally high wage earners; in fact, our salaries are probably low end for this board.  Still, we're significantly better off than my parents were at our age. 

I can say this:  When I was your age, I was worried about money.  We weren't exactly forced to scrape together money for the mortgage every month, but we didn't have much left over for extras.  I was worried about how we'd ever save for college, retirement -- it seemed like too much.  Then we hit a point around 30 where we suddenly were comfortable ... and that improved steadily.  You're off to a good start.  Stay the course, and you'll be fine. 

[2lazy2retire]

Terrorism.  Specifically, ISIS and other Muslim terrorist organizations.  It's only a matter of time before they hit us at home.  Imagine being scared to go to a restaurant, sporting event, or other public gathering place.  People in some countries have to deal with that fear every day.  We're lucky to have huge bodies of water on either side of us, but it's still just a matter of time before something happens here.

And there you have the American thought process in a few lines - ahh the good old days when war's were fought somewhere else and civilian casualties were not your neighbor but some jap/commie/muslim ( insert the non co-operating country or leader of your choice) who are different than us anyway. How many thousand's have the American's "hit at home" over the decades - napalm, shock and awe, drones - more recently brought directly to the safety of our living rooms by embedded CNN reporters.

[mm1970]

Plus - who wants to go to high school graduations when they are 60?

Ummm...raising my hand here?

My younger son will graduate from HS when my husband and I are 62 and 60, respectively.  I hope we're both there!!

[mm1970]

However, my wife and I and most of our peers do not have children. The reason we have the appearance of doing well is because we are dual-income/no-kids. We were all raised by 2-income families, daycares, babysitters etc. We are determined NOT to have kids unless and until one parent is able to stop working.

Once one half of the "seems to be doing great DINK millennial" couple drops out of the workforce for 10+ years, those prospects don't look so good.

This is pretty fascinating.  My mother was a SAHM until I was 12.  The trucking de-reg of the 80s had my dad lose his job (in his 50s), resulting in a job that paid 1/3 his previous job.  Mom went to work PT, and money was super tight.  It was tight before, even worse after.

So my perspective is the opposite of yours.  I *do not* want to get into that situation.  Doesn't matter how much money I have saved up, I want to be able to support my family if something happens - and for me, that means I keep working.  At least until my kids are in college.

FYI daycares don't raise children.

[mak1277]

Terrorism.  Specifically, ISIS and other Muslim terrorist organizations.  It's only a matter of time before they hit us at home.  Imagine being scared to go to a restaurant, sporting event, or other public gathering place.  People in some countries have to deal with that fear every day.  We're lucky to have huge bodies of water on either side of us, but it's still just a matter of time before something happens here.

And there you have the American thought process in a few lines - ahh the good old days when war's were fought somewhere else and civilian casualties were not your neighbor but some jap/commie/muslim ( insert the non co-operating country or leader of your choice) who are different than us anyway. How many thousand's have the American's "hit at home" over the decades - napalm, shock and awe, drones - more recently brought directly to the safety of our living rooms by embedded CNN reporters.

So you don't think terrorism in the US is something to be worried about? 

[2lazy2retire]

Terrorism.  Specifically, ISIS and other Muslim terrorist organizations.  It's only a matter of time before they hit us at home.  Imagine being scared to go to a restaurant, sporting event, or other public gathering place.  People in some countries have to deal with that fear every day.  We're lucky to have huge bodies of water on either side of us, but it's still just a matter of time before something happens here.

And there you have the American thought process in a few lines - ahh the good old days when war's were fought somewhere else and civilian casualties were not your neighbor but some jap/commie/muslim ( insert the non co-operating country or leader of your choice) who are different than us anyway. How many thousand's have the American's "hit at home" over the decades - napalm, shock and awe, drones - more recently brought directly to the safety of our living rooms by embedded CNN reporters.

So you don't think terrorism in the US is something to be worried about?

With the amount of lunatics in this country who have legal access to weapons and the current death toll from such, there are more pressing issues that some "big bad furner cummin to git ya"
Can you imagine the amount of lives that could be saved if a fraction of the money spent on some BS war on terroism was invested in researching a cure for cancer or preventative health care

[mak1277]

Terrorism.  Specifically, ISIS and other Muslim terrorist organizations.  It's only a matter of time before they hit us at home.  Imagine being scared to go to a restaurant, sporting event, or other public gathering place.  People in some countries have to deal with that fear every day.  We're lucky to have huge bodies of water on either side of us, but it's still just a matter of time before something happens here.

And there you have the American thought process in a few lines - ahh the good old days when war's were fought somewhere else and civilian casualties were not your neighbor but some jap/commie/muslim ( insert the non co-operating country or leader of your choice) who are different than us anyway. How many thousand's have the American's "hit at home" over the decades - napalm, shock and awe, drones - more recently brought directly to the safety of our living rooms by embedded CNN reporters.

So you don't think terrorism in the US is something to be worried about?

With the amount of lunatics in this country who have legal access to weapons and the current death toll from such, there are more pressing issues that some "big bad furner cummin to git ya"

That's irrelevant to my question...are you or are you not concerned about the possibility of terrorist attacks in the US.  I certainly don't think it's an unreasonable thing to think about given what's happened in Europe recently. 

Worrying about crazy white people with guns is also valid, but totally unrelated.