Frustrating siblings

[Jags4186]

This will be a rant.

I have an older sister who makes about 200k a year. Her husband makes easily double that. They own a $2 mil apartment in Manhattan.

My fiancé and I together make substantially less than my sister makes.

Every year, every holiday, my sister wants to "go-in" together with me on gifts for my parents--birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc etc.  usually expensive--my half way more than I would usually spend if I were getting a gift myself.

I'm just sick of it. I don't understand how many times I have to dance around the fact of our differing incomes before she stops asking. I should just tell her I don't feel like splitting gifts anymore but confrontation isn't really how our family operates. Also, I feel that they make so much--they probably do live an incredibly fancy lifestyle while saving a considerable portion of their income. If I spend all my money on gifts I'm saving nothing.

I feel like saying to her "you and your husband add up what you make, we'll add up what we make, divide and that's how we'll split the cost. Not comfortable with that? Then don't make an expensive suggestion."

And believe me it's not like she's unaware of how much money we make.  Drives me fucking nuts.

[pbkmaine]

Tell her the following: "I am willing to spend x on a gift if you want to go in together." Do not budge from that sum by a single cent. Either she agrees and that's what you do, or she doesn't and you get separate gifts.

[G-dog]

How about - 'oh, well we've already gotten them something!' Pat her arm and move on...

Or just 'no thanks'

Or, 'as long as iour contribution is proportional to our incomes'

Yep, uncomfortable at best, long-term resentment or family fight at worst when you do eventually refuse.

[MDM]

First of all, you don't need to buy gifts for your parents on every holiday that comes along.

You might introduce your family to http://addwish.com/frontpage.html, where people can list things they want and others can buy from that list.  Then you can get some individual items for your parents and let your sister get whatever she wants.

In short, as has already been suggested, simply go your own way and don't split the cost for a gift.  You'll be upset (rightly so) if the cost is split 50/50, and you really don't want to be comparing Forms 1040 while trying to maintain the Christmas spirit.

[MLKnits]

I'd definitely go with the "oh, we already got something!" Anything else is probably borrowing trouble--she's not, presumably, oblivious to the differences, and she probably thinks half is fair. You're not likely to convince her otherwise, and it's not worth the good parts of your relationship when there's an easier solution.

My sister makes about what I do but is a spender (to be fair, she adores her career and has a killer earnings trajectory ahead of her). Thus far she's picked reasonable joint gifts when that's come up, thankfully, but I'm sure the day will come when she's getting our mom a beach house and I'm still on Harry&David pears. So be it: mom will still love us both, and hey, I'll get to visit the beach house. ;)

[G-dog]

With the 'I already got something' be prepared for 'great, we'll split the cost with you'

Especially since this is trying to dodge the issue vs. addressing it directly. People who want their own way usually blissfully/obstinately ignore our passive and polite hints that mean 'no' when we aren't willing to be blunt.

[KBecks2]

Beat her to it.  Pick something reasonable and ask her to split the cost on that.

[Cougar]

This will be a rant.

I have an older sister who makes about 200k a year. Her husband makes easily double that. They own a $2 mil apartment in Manhattan.

My fiancé and I together make substantially less than my sister makes.

Every year, every holiday, my sister wants to "go-in" together with me on gifts for my parents--birthday, Christmas, Mother's Day, Father's Day, etc etc.  usually expensive--my half way more than I would usually spend if I were getting a gift myself.

I'm just sick of it. I don't understand how many times I have to dance around the fact of our differing incomes before she stops asking. I should just tell her I don't feel like splitting gifts anymore but confrontation isn't really how our family operates. Also, I feel that they make so much--they probably do live an incredibly fancy lifestyle while saving a considerable portion of their income. If I spend all my money on gifts I'm saving nothing.

I feel like saying to her "you and your husband add up what you make, we'll add up what we make, divide and that's how we'll split the cost. Not comfortable with that? Then don't make an expensive suggestion."

And believe me it's not like she's unaware of how much money we make.  Drives me fucking nuts.

 it's all in what shoes your standing in.

 my older sister doesnt make any money, is always in debt and i am expecting will be living in my extra room along with her deadbeat husband someday.

but to your issue, i would confront them in person and get a reasonable solution that works for both of you.

 if you made no money are were deadbetas i could understand your sister being dissapointed and just beating you over the head; but you guys make money; just not what they do; they need to be understanding.

[Indexer]

Stop combining for the gifts.  This practice in itself prompts over spending.  If two siblings are going to combine for a gift it's going to be expected to be pretty good... by at least one of the siblings.  You aren't going to combine and then buy a $50 gift card or a couple books off Amazon.  When people combine it normally ends up being an iPad, a computer, jewelry, etc.

Just tell her that you are buying a gift, and you don't want to split the gift. 

My brother actually wanted to combine last year.... to buy my mom an ipad.  I actually had already picked something out so it was a non-issue.

[NateupNorth]

We're sort of on the other side with my wife's family. She has three siblings who seem to think they need to buy their parents a gift for every occasion under the sun(why on earth should anyone buy an anniversary gift for anyone besides the person they are married to?).

We are by no means high rollers, but our household income is ~25-50% higher than any of theirs, and none of them are very dilligent savers. If we ever tell them we don't want to contribute, they seem to think there's something wrong with us because we don't want to spend as much money as they do. At one point, her brother thought we should contribute more since we're a two-income household (haven't heard much about that since he got married).

We've finally stopped caring and just say "No, we're not contributing to that. If you feel they need it so badly, so can buy it for them without us." They can have fun working into their 60s like their parents do/are. We've got other plans for our lives.

[MsPeacock]

I used to go in w/ my exH and his sisters on gifts for his parents - we made more than either of them. I always said "We were thinking of "this item" - what do you think?" And "Contribute whatever you can (which was sometimes nothing) and it will be from all of us."

Is there some conflict between your sister and you about income aside from the issue of gifts? Otherwise I think it would be fairly easy to grasp that their budget and yours are different. Otherwise if she suggests some $400 thing, or whatever, you could just said "I can give X - otherwise I'll get something on my own for them."

[partgypsy]

Hmm. I guess it would depend on how much it was. For my parents in law, sometimes the 3 kids go in together for mother's day (flowers) and christmas, but still the present isn't over $100, or $150 I think 1 year. We actually had a conversation, where we are trying to get away with big "gifts" really for anyone including the parents, and making it smaller thoughtful items.
So maybe approach it differently, say that you have different philosophies about gift giving, and if you can't come to an agreement  that you buy gifts separately. It shouldn't be that big of a deal, unless there is something I don't know of, like the parents expect a gift of a particular value, etc.

[Josiecat]

How much money are we talking here?  What is an example of a gift?

[Jags4186]

How much money are we talking here?  What is an example of a gift?

She wanted to take my father to a Yankees' game. Of course this includes me picking him up, driving over the GW bridge ($14 toll), parking ($35 at the stadium), 3 tickets split evenly (my share around $75-$100), food and drinks at the stadium (around $30-$50 each) for Father's Day.

I told her "hey I'm not really trying to spend over $50 for Father's Day and it's going to cost just that much to get him there" figuring she'd offer to pick up the rest. She didn't.

[MsPeacock]

How much money are we talking here?  What is an example of a gift?

She wanted to take my father to a Yankees' game. Of course this includes me picking him up, driving over the GW bridge ($14 toll), parking ($35 at the stadium), 3 tickets split evenly (my share around $75-$100), food and drinks at the stadium (around $30-$50 each) for Father's Day.

I told her "hey I'm not really trying to spend over $50 for Father's Day and it's going to cost just that much to get him there" figuring she'd offer to pick up the rest. She didn't.

$400 for Father's Day - I guess if they make 500k a year or something that seems like a drop in the bucket.

Anyhow - Agree, too much and you said what you could afford and she ignored it  - so just move on. If the $50 wasn't enough she is on her own ( and I doubt $50 will change her mind one way or another about the yankee's game). She can take your Dad to the game on her own or she can figure out something else.

[CommonCents]

I know you said your family isn't confrontational but your method isn't working so it's time to try something new such as honesty.  "This is really awkward, because we haven't budgeted that amount for gifts.  I know you don't mean to make me feel bad, but I do when you regularly ask us to chip in beyond what we can afford.  We're happy for you that your incomes are substantially more than ours, but we don't want to overspend by trying to keep up.  If you want to split a gift, our budget is X.  How about Y?"

[surfhb]

Read a book call Boundries so when you tell her no (nicely) you wont feel guilty about it. ;)

[okits]

You've just got to learn to say no.  If you can't deal with confrontation write a very polite and reasonable e-mail to your sister, then refuse to discuss it again if she tries to pressure you (change the subject or end the conversation.) If your family doesn't "do" confrontation then I imagine she'll back off once the spectre of unpleasant or awkward interaction arises.

I wouldn't shy away from saying "we can't afford that much".  Competitive siblings may take that response better because they can at least feel superior for having more money than you.  But you get to set the boundaries you want.

[Jags4186]

I do say no a lot (patio furniture suggestion for my parents for Christmas?  what planet is she on?) but I just feel like how many times do I need to get annoyed and say no to ridiculous suggestions before she stops? 

[begood]

Families are weird. Maybe let her know you have a blanket budget of $x per event. If you want to be nonconfrontational about it, just keep offering $50 for every plan she comes up with. Eventually, she'll internalize that number.

You could also offer to "split" the gift a different way, where you provide transportation and parking, and she picks up the rest. Make it an actual offer: "If you want to do the Yankees thing, I'll be happy to bring Dad over the bridge and pay for parking, but that's all I can contribute."

[Pigeon]

Tell her that you are not interested in joint presents, not now and not in the future, period.  I know you don't like confrontation, but setting boundaries is a good thing.  If you aren't interested in having this same conversation with her for the rest of your life, you will need to take this step because she obviously isn't picking up on your subtle messages.

[Mr_Chin_Stubble]

what are their jobs?

[mm1970]

I do say no a lot (patio furniture suggestion for my parents for Christmas?  what planet is she on?) but I just feel like how many times do I need to get annoyed and say no to ridiculous suggestions before she stops?

Maybe she doesn't want to steal your thunder?  Like if she gets your parents an expensive gift and you don't, she'll be "standing you up"?

But probably not.

[rachael talcott]

I just wanted to echo what several people have said about setting boundaries.  My relationships with various family members have gotten a lot better since I've made it clear that if they want a relationship with me, these are the terms.  It feels mean, even if the boundary is objectively reasonable and even necessary for survival, because you want to give the person you love what they want.  But if your sister loves you and values the relationship, she will respect that you have a $50 limit.

[obstinate]

My brothers and I went in on a present together for Mothers day once. It was tickets to a concert, for her and dad. It was like $250. I felt really bad because I know I make a lot more than my bros. But it was last minute and we had no other ideas. I was like, "Pay what you feel comfortable, I am OK to cover the rest. And this will count for father's day too." But for whatever reason, the one with the second most income ended up picking up almost half.

The brother who makes the least was smart. He said, "Would $25 do?" I'm like, "For sure, you da man."

In hindsight, I'm glad we got her that nice thing, but I think that will be the last big one for a while. There's a dark part of me that likes that I make the most, but the good part of me does not want to lord this fact over my brothers, even incidentally. So mom and dad will from now on only be getting presents from us that could have come from the least wealthy brother's income.

[Big Boots Buddha]

What is wrong with telling her she makes more money than you do and you don't want to spend a lot?

Will she spew fire out of her eyes and kill you?

[Jags4186]

What is wrong with telling her she makes more money than you do and you don't want to spend a lot?

Will she spew fire out of her eyes and kill you?

A distinct possibility.

[cripzychiken]

My sister is the same way, she makes about twice what my wife and I make and wants to spend 3-4x what I'm willing to spend.  You're only two options are either give her a strict budget and stick to it, or just do gifts by yourself.

A few Christmas' back, my sister wanted to go in on a gift for my parents - "probably a few grand" is what she thought it would cost (split 4 ways, so best bet would be $500/each).  Everyone backed out and she ended up buying my parents a used car (my parents suck with money and don't get the whole 'maintenance is cheaper than repairs' and finds it odd when cars break down).  Anyways, all in she was over $6,000 and the car didn't even last 2 years. That $750 was a lot more than the $200 I spent.  And hey, my gifts they are still using.

[fartface]

My family and husband's family did this for YEARS when we were first married. We have 7 siblings between us. At first, we always agreed and chipped in no matter how extravagant or expensive the gift. I got tired of it quickly. The last straw was when we purchased the $500 gift and one of his brothers didn't pay us his share! After that we used the, "Ooops sorry, we already got mom/dad a gift. That sounds really nice though!"

If you act pissy then you may cause friction. Obviously your sister is too thick to take subtle hints. Stand firm and decline, decline, decline, eventually she'll give up and stop asking. If she presses it, then tell her your finances are not equal and you really can't 'afford' it -- even though we know you can (wink - wink)!

[mathlete]

That's tough. I have no suggestions for the specific situation but I can tell you how I'm trying to wean my family off of gift giving.

1.) I casually drop that most of my holiday spending is on for the underprivileged kids on angel trees. Hopefully they realize that poor kids will actually benefit from some outside person getting them a gift. Trading gifts between family members is just dead weight economic loss
2.) I respond with "A gift to X charity in my name." to the question of, "What do you want for Christmas."

I think this starting to set in. Recently, when I said number 2 in a conversation (don't ask me why Christmas came up in May), my mom said, "Oh, maybe your dad and I should say that too."

Ideally this will end with everyone giving an amount they're comfortable giving to charity rather than trying to guess how much will be spent on them and then make sure they match it.

[meandmyfamily]

I always say we are planning on spend X and my SIL always says okay.  She often chips in more but doesn't seem to mind that we contribute whatever we have budgeted.  I have asked and made sure she is okay with it.

[fartface]

Update: After years of politely declining "group gifts" last night DH handed me his phone w/a text thread between him and his four siblings.

Two sisters start yipping about getting his dad and mom a trip to an exotic destination for his dad's retirement gift.

One even contacted a travel agent for prices and said it was looking like ~$2000 a piece for the chip in. Friggin' kidding me?

DH was quite annoyed by their presumptive attitudes. He thought of all kinds of clever rebuttals like, "Why don't you pay off your debt before sending mom and pop away on a trip?!" One brother owes the parents $30K+ and was all like, "I'm in. Sounds good!"

In the end, I grabbed the phone from him and texted, "We already got dad his retirement gift. Looking forward to seeing you all at the party on the 18th!"

We also just found out his sister hired a professional photographer to be at the event for family pics. So, now I'm wondering if we'll have to chip in for that as well? Anybody know how that works? I'm hoping that you don't have to pay unless you order prints, but with his crazy, debt-ridden, spendthrift family they likely hired "only the best" and it will cost us. Ug.

[G-dog]

Update: After years of politely declining "group gifts" last night DH handed me his phone w/a text thread between him and his four siblings.

Two sisters start yipping about getting his dad and mom a trip to an exotic destination for his dad's retirement gift.

One even contacted a travel agent for prices and said it was looking like ~$2000 a piece for the chip in. Friggin' kidding me?

DH was quite annoyed by their presumptive attitudes. He thought of all kinds of clever rebuttals like, "Why don't you pay off your debt before sending mom and pop away on a trip?!" One brother owes the parents $30K+ and was all like, "I'm in. Sounds good!"

In the end, I grabbed the phone from him and texted, "We already got dad his retirement gift. Looking forward to seeing you all at the party on the 18th!"

We also just found out his sister hired a professional photographer to be at the event for family pics. So, now I'm wondering if we'll have to chip in for that as well? Anybody know how that works? I'm hoping that you don't have to pay unless you order prints, but with his crazy, debt-ridden, spendthrift family they likely hired "only the best" and it will cost us. Ug.

May not be worth the fight, but don't pay...
Oh, you should have checked with us first, I am sorry but we can't pay for the photographer, or the passive-aggressive version
Sure, I'll get that to you (then don't)

[CommonCents]

We also just found out his sister hired a professional photographer to be at the event for family pics. So, now I'm wondering if we'll have to chip in for that as well? Anybody know how that works? I'm hoping that you don't have to pay unless you order prints, but with his crazy, debt-ridden, spendthrift family they likely hired "only the best" and it will cost us. Ug.

Do you know the name of the photographer?  If so, just call them and ask for their pricing.  Then you'll know and be able to consider how you want to respond.  (If it's only prints, don't buy anything except maybe chip in for one photo for the parents.  If it's a reasonable sitting/hourly fee, maybe suck it up.  If it's high, consider responses.)

[cripzychiken]

We also just found out his sister hired a professional photographer to be at the event for family pics. So, now I'm wondering if we'll have to chip in for that as well? Anybody know how that works? I'm hoping that you don't have to pay unless you order prints, but with his crazy, debt-ridden, spendthrift family they likely hired "only the best" and it will cost us. Ug.

Commonly it's a set fee for the work and a copy of the digital photos/files.  Most photographers just expect you to take the digital files and print them yourself.  They offer to get you prints, but way way to much (usually includes some touch ups, but still like $6 for a 4x6). 

[AZDude]

Confrontation is not a negative. You need to just deal with the real issues by having a candid conversation with your siblings, IMO. An uncomfortable five minute discussion now saves a lifetime of aggravation. No need to get personal or nasty, just say your piece(concentrate on your decision not on the "you make more than we do" side) politely and be done. Simple and effective.

[acroy]

This will be a rant.....
  Drives me fucking nuts.

Rich first-world problem. Get over it. Be driven fucking nuts by something that matters. Or better, relax with a box of wine :)

[Apples]

You have told her no over other ridiculous things before, so it's not the actual saying no part, it's the fact that you have to and she keeps asking, and the gifts are ridiculous and over the top, but somehow she's mad at you for not wanting to do it.

You know, I have a SIL who consistently makes plans then drops them at the last minute.  This includes coming to visit us, plans for the night we get into town visiting my in laws, even Christmas day plans.  So my DH had already gotten used to this, but I had to learn to "make plans" but not actually consider them real plans.  And now I go along with the game of making plans but not acting on them at least 50% of the time, and the other 50% of the time running late; it's just part of the relationship.  However when plans are crazy or not going to work, we set boundaries about what is acceptable.  SIL gets mad at us.

The point for you is, this might be something that your sister will never quit.  She probably doesn't like you saying no, and won't ever like it.  But you can say no, and if she gets really worked up about it just walk away from that conversation (hang up the phone) and don't let her guilt trip you about it. If you're feeling brave you can tell her you don't plan to get gifts together, because it doesn't fit in your budget.  Lot's of people have left good scripts here for that.  But if you're not willing to cross (burn?) that bridge, then this might be an aspect of the relationship you have to learn to live with and not let it stress you out.  And get really good at saying no a lot.

ETA:  spelling and formatting fails