The Money Mustache Community
General Discussion => Welcome and General Discussion => Topic started by: DollarBill on February 16, 2016, 04:01:53 PM
-
I'm sure just about everyone has taken part of some sort of friendly banter or battle of wits with our Friends/Family. I've never cared for it that much but I've become very good at playing the game. I admit that it can be fun if people keep it good natured and I'm fine with that. But lately some topics hit a nerve with me and it's odd because I normally have a very thick skin, especially since I spent 23 yrs in the Military and busting each others chops was a daily activity.
Like:
- If someone calls me cheap...I don't think they are being serious but it's like an ice pick in the ribs.
- If someone makes fun of me driving a small hatchback...I have some good come backs for this so I can side step it fairly easy but I feel that this one bothers me because it comes up often. I just feel like showing them my account balance and tell them trust me I can afford something better but choose not to but I also don't want to show them my balance, then they would want to barrow money :-)
- If someone cracks on me for being single or accuses me of being gay...Once again I can shut it down quickly but sometimes I can get down right ugly with my banter.
I know I should just keep a cool head and return fun banter or ask them to back off that topic but dang it's very hard at times. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
-
It means that deep down you are probably insecure about those topics, for whatever reason. If you were completely comfortable with it, then it would not bother you.
-
It means that deep down you are probably insecure about those topics, for whatever reason. If you were completely comfortable with it, then it would not bother you.
Yep. For something said to bug you, you have to already have a thing about it. Not judging-I have plenty of topics I dont like being joked about. Maybe you are changing-what once did not bug you now does?
-
Sometimes a person just gets sick and tired of the same old grief over and over as well...it could be as simple as that.
And since most of us aren't politicians and used to it, it can become hard to brush off when the same banter happens repeatedly.
-
I agree, hearing the same jokes or comments over and over again gets irritating.
-
I read a fascinating book many years ago called The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. The author is a linguist, and she spent many years studying what she called the 'grammar' of verbal violence. She talked about how any "innocent" phrase can be delivered in a tone or cadence that signifies a verbal attack, just as any "insult" can be delivered in a tone or cadence that makes the receiver smile and laugh and actually feel better and closer to the person who said it.
It may be that you are sensitive to certain topics, but it might also be that your family and friends are feeling envious of you and are using seemingly innocent expressions to take you down a notch. Possibly without even consciously realizing it.
The book helped me to identify the "melodies" of verbal attack, now whenever I hear it I put up a "wall of pleasant" and let their jibes bounce right off.
It works, most of the time anyway :-)
-
Maybe try not giving a fuck?
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
-
It really does matter how it is delivered and what tone, etc. But it is not fun to tease the same person about the same crap all the time. No wonder you are sick of it and I would be too. My sister has spent her whole life single by choice and I can't tell you how many comments I got from people when we were younger always asking is she was gay, who she was dating, etc. After awhile it really started to piss me off. By age 42 she quit dating-so what? It was her decision. She never wanted to marry or live with someone and people found that odd. I guess I would try to comeback with something that is intended to make them stop. Good luck:))
-
Just go along with the insults/jokes. The other day I had a meeting with a client and when I came back my project manager kept joking about my bankers hours even though I work a ton. I just joke back, "you know, it's a wonder I even come in at all."
You could do the same about their insults/jokes.
"That's funny you mention that about my car, I was thinking about getting a smaller one."
-
If you're close to retirement, simply smile politely and ask them when they are retiring.
-
+1 to those who say a thing doesn't bug us unless it hits a nerve--meaning we're sensitive about that topic for some reason. Worth considering why we even care about those things . . .
I've found that if it bugs me, that usually means I'm defensive about it. Used to be defensive about lots of things that no longer make one jot of difference to me.
The gay thing is a bit of a warning. So many of us were brought up to fear/loathe the concept of homosexuality. I know I was. Looking back it's shocking to me how much fear and ignorance was legitimized by adults around me when I was a kid. Now I just wonder . . . what the hell was that about? Spend lots of time with people of all orientations and you will stop giving half a rat's ass one way or the other who they love. Love is love.
And that's when you'll stop caring if someone thinks you're gay. Instead you'll wonder why that's even a thing to tease or banter about: like, why?
-
I checked this out at the library a month or so ago. It might help you deal with some of that.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Life-Changing-Magic-Not-Giving/dp/0316270725
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
As others here have said, sometimes things just get old. Jokes about sexuality, economic status and race were the norm in my family, and I grew out of them without ever announcing it or verbalizing it. I simply let it happen whenever I was around, which wasn't often. When I introduced my girlfriend (now wife) to my family, the jokes continued and were problematic because my family is white and my wife is not. I didn't prep either side properly, and now the relationship is dead from the toxic fallout. Long story short, I called my family on their inappropriate behavior and they shrugged and said "Who, us?"
If the joking seems inappropriate to you, I'd recommend being vocal about it to avoid a situation like mine. My family are decent if misguided people, and I could have salvaged a relationship with them if I had told them over the years how to behave more decently in front of new people, if not in front of people they purport to love. They probably feel like everything with my wife and me was sprung on them at once, which caused them to dig in in defense of some really nasty behavior. They chose to do that, made that bed and are sleeping in it, but I feel like some comments from me over the years could have primed the pump and produced a better result.
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
What in the world was going through that guy's mind. This is well past beyond "inappropriate and unnecessary", it's "get escorted out of the building" territory.
-
I used to enjoy "friendly banter" and being "witty" a lot more, and at some point I realized: that's what people say to justifying being mean, obnoxious, or bullying. This type of banter meant that I was always putting people down or being put down, it was super negative.
The fact that it's funny or teasing or whatever is the cover we use to excuse this behavior. At some point, though, a lot of people don't find it funny. It's either annoying and sometimes straight up hurtful.
There are some people I felt comfortable point that out to (one buddy shares in confidence that I always made him feel bad when we were younger :( ). There were some people that I just had to cut back on spending time with. I made it a point not to engage in this and not to hang around other people who did this as their form of socializing or bonding. The hardest was within my family dynamic.
I don't agree that the things that bug you are always insecurity. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's stuff that means something to you or go to your core values. If you believe that it's good to save money or drive an old car and someone mocks that, it's natural for that to upset you.
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
This made me chuckle a bit, my son's best man was (is) gay and brought his boyfriend to the wedding. Just trying to imagine him giving that speech for my son.
-
You could always point out that they are repeating the same thing over and over, boooorrrrring. In a slightly amused voice (amused that they are so limited in their comments). Or maybe it is time to declutter them out of your life. Not all clutter is inanimate.
And Suzette Haden Elgin's books are worth reading. She had a blog (http://www.adrr.com/aa/) but from her blog: Regarding Suzette Haden Elgin I was asked to "tell everyone that she's really sorry, but she just can't communicate anymore. She just can't focus on things well enough to even answer an email, let alone talk to anyone."
(November 18, 1936 - January 27, 2015) 79 years on this earth, not bad. Nice if it had been longer.
-
I used to enjoy "friendly banter" and being "witty" a lot more, and at some point I realized: that's what people say to justifying being mean, obnoxious, or bullying. This type of banter meant that I was always putting people down or being put down, it was super negative.
The fact that it's funny or teasing or whatever is the cover we use to excuse this behavior. At some point, though, a lot of people don't find it funny. It's either annoying and sometimes straight up hurtful.
There are some people I felt comfortable point that out to (one buddy shares in confidence that I always made him feel bad when we were younger :( ). There were some people that I just had to cut back on spending time with. I made it a point not to engage in this and not to hang around other people who did this as their form of socializing or bonding. The hardest was within my family dynamic.
I don't agree that the things that bug you are always insecurity. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's stuff that means something to you or go to your core values. If you believe that it's good to save money or drive an old car and someone mocks that, it's natural for that to upset you.
Great post, and I agree that it's used as a justification for being mean and nasty. Sometimes I'd hear things from family and friends and that I thought was a bit over the line, but I never heard the same coming out of my mouth even though it was probably regarded by others the same way. I wised up through some embarrassing and hurtful experiences.
People I've called on it act offended and like life can't be fun if we can't engage in "friendly banter." I acted the same way when I first met people who weren't okay with it coming from me. I think people can demand too much PC, or be too quick to be offended, and just plain misinterpret things, but most friendly banter is not defensible at all if you think about it carefully. It's definitely nobody's place to say that a person of color, for example, is too sensitive about a racial joke. Slingers of friendly banter are putting this stuff on others. If it's too much, it's their bad, not the targets of their insensitivity.
-
When asked my why I drive a prius instead of something larger, I respond that its enormous compared to the bicycle that I usually use to get around.
When asked why I bike so much: I respond that I do it because usually I want to get places really quickly, and walking would take too long.
Response to being called cheap: I point out that not buying things allows me to buy time instead. That I don't need to take a job for extra income in the summer, and get to spend every moment of those months with my wife and two kids. I tell them that in my opinion, being cheap is skimping on things in a way that makes life worse for those around you. But that frugal is about making choices that will make life better for those around you, and that my wife and kids don't think I'm cheap when we're spending all day together. I don't say this in a snide way, but as genuinely as possible so they hopefully understand that money doesn't just have to be spent on things.
-
Wow...thanks for all the great comments. It really got me thinking. It's getting late tonight so I'll try to add my comments in the AM; I have a feeling it will be comical or good humor banter...lol.
-
I get tired of some of the same old cracks at me, too, so you have my sympathy. I get cracked on about different stuff than you do (other than the car, I do get ribbed about that too) but some of it has gotten tiresome.
In my case it's not at all that I am particularly sensitive about the topics, and in fact some of the things I'm perfectly delighted about. For example, I love my little car and eagerly await the odometer getting to 222222 sometime in the next couple of weeks. It's just that the ill intent and nasty peer pressure to conform or be cast out is so very clear in the tone, particularly in the cracks coming from a couple of co-workers. If only it really was good-natured. Think I'll read that book on the gentle art of verbal self defense . . . it might keep me from snapping at some people at work in a way that would be FIRE self-limiting. Thanks to the poster who suggested that.
Thankfully, most of my family doesn't do it at all and this sort of banter would be considered quite rude. It was an issue that I had in coping with my ex's family dynamic, though . . . part of the reason we are ex, I suppose.
-
I was bullied a lot growing up, and I still have to deal with my inappropriate/hurtful family sometimes. It's tough to be the person who has to come up with a quip to an arrogant comment. When it comes to my family I make sure I'm not alone with anyone so they can't corner me with questions. Walking away without answering also works. Sometimes I'll say why do you ask? Usually I say nothing at all. Just let them keep talking and not respond. Or just going with it and saying something I know will horrify them. I find the less I react/ get tense, the more people leave me alone. Because it's really about making themselves feel better by hurting someone else.
-
I'm a big fan of the "innocent question" approach. Whenever you encounter a mocking remark or question you are tired of, just innocently ask, "oh, really? Why do you think that?" At a response, you can say, "Hmmm, I see. This seems to really bother you. Why is that?" When they stumble over a response, say something to the effect of, "You seem really worried about this. Are you okay?"
Repeat as necessary, until they are so uncomfortable they shut the hell up. That should take care of it.
-
One technique that I've found works well is triangulation. You acknowledge the other view point and then turn it around.
For example: You drive a hatchback.
Response: Yeah, it is kind of crappy car. But it gets the job done, and I love not having a car payment! Plus the insurance is lower. I really love having the extra money each month. It has been pretty great overall. Plus, I only drive the car about 1.5 hours out of 24, so while a better car would be nice, it just sits in the driveway most of the time. But the extra money allows me to do lots of stuff I otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, so it is a great trade off.
-
The next time someone does that just look them square in the eye, wait a few seconds, then wait a few seconds longer, then simply say, "yeah" that will be one of the most uncomfortable experiences ever and normally it gives people a second to reflect on the fact that what they are doing is really being a jerk. Sometime's they're realize it right then and apologize. It's amazing when we don't conform to other people's expected patterns of behavior.
-
I find a big, bright smile and a cheerful "Yup!" usually shuts down anyone who makes condescending remarks about my old, worn things.
I will have to look for a copy of The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. I might find some new techniques!
-
One technique that I've found works well is triangulation. You acknowledge the other view point and then turn it around.
For example: You drive a hatchback.
Response: Yeah, it is kind of crappy car. But it gets the job done, and I love not having a car payment! Plus the insurance is lower. I really love having the extra money each month. It has been pretty great overall. Plus, I only drive the car about 1.5 hours out of 24, so while a better car would be nice, it just sits in the driveway most of the time. But the extra money allows me to do lots of stuff I otherwise wouldn't be able to afford, so it is a great trade off.
This!!! I would also throw in a slight, very covert, dig at them. Such as, "My car may be ten years old, but it still works. I already have the thirty grand to buy another car(I would never actually pay this much), but I would rather drive the car I have and with the thirty grand, make seven percent on that money every year I don't spend it. I'll make 2100 per year that I keep driving my current car!" Their faces fall so fast after I say, "I already have the thirty grand........."
-
Our family is a very teasing family! It's part of who we are. Actually, I think it toughened all of us up so that we don't get upset about other people razing us! My husband and I are known for our frugality/cheapness and our extended family jokes about it all the time, but we love it! They also suspect and are right, that we have a big stache. I guess I can take a joke about anything because my self-esteem is good and I know my faults/weaknesses and don't care.
My son-in-law, on the other hand, can dish it out, but he can't take it, so we have to watch what we say around him. We can joke a little, but if we go too far, he gets upset.
Basically, we love the teasing and get a lot of laughs out of it!
Miss Prim
-
I'm a big fan of the "innocent question" approach. Whenever you encounter a mocking remark or question you are tired of, just innocently ask, "oh, really? Why do you think that?" At a response, you can say, "Hmmm, I see. This seems to really bother you. Why is that?" When they stumble over a response, say something to the effect of, "You seem really worried about this. Are you okay?"
Repeat as necessary, until they are so uncomfortable they shut the hell up. That should take care of it.
That's exactly what I do. I hate jokes and teasing, and usually responding with "What do you mean by that?" and then NOT letting it go when the person tries to say that they're joking is effective. It only takes one time to get people to stop joking or teasing with me.
-
I know some are saying that they enjoy kinda giving people a light ribbing and making fun of them as 'banter'.
However. I'd say don't beat yourself up for finding it upsetting.
I grew up in a family where we did not make anyone the 'target' of jokes. Humour was usually absurd and silly but not the mocking, 'making-fun' kind of banter.
My flatmate, on the other hand, makes very biting 'funny' comments to other people (and me) about our choices, our feelings, our opinons, our (ahem) food choices... anything.
I found this nastiness (in an otherwise lovely person) kind of mistifying, until I saw her interacting with her siblings. They were brutal to each other. It was just constant mockery, sarcastic comments, 'funny' criticism of each other.
In an ideal world, each person should have the maturity and self-awareness to modify their behaviour if it's upsetting other people. To continue to mock and make fun of someone who is not enjoying it - well, the people doing that KNOW what they're doing. They're being dicks.
Really stupid, tiny example: last night, I was making myself some home-made soup when my flatmate came into the kitchen, looked at it and said 'eeew what the fuck is that?' - and laughed. I'm sure in her family that's probably the starting point for a hilarious ribbing. I just thought 'can she ever stop saying rude things' and ignored her. Queue a bad atmosphere between us. But you know what - I'm not her family. I'm not her sibling. I'm a completely different person. It is totally inappropriate to just start mocking someone if they are not the kind of person who can enjoy mockery. I honestly don't even find it funny. It's just dreary, depressing and rude. It's also unimaginative. There are so many OTHER, non hurtful things in the world to talk about, find humour in, get mega laffs out of.
I realise we all decide for ourselves how much we let something affect us; so I'd advise putting a protective-shell into action, much like a tortoise, if you are aware of this happening, but most importantly, don't turn it in on yourself and think 'I'm being overly sensitive'. Last night I just thought 'she's being a dick because her whole family talk like that all the time'. I tried to ignore it and not feel compelled to show that I was a 'good sport' or some other such BS.
In summary, I don't think there's anything wrong with you for feeling upset about it.
-
What bothers me is when you tell someone that they have crossed your line, they will try to put it back on you by saying you are too "thin-skinned" and "can't take a joke."
-
I'm sure just about everyone has taken part of some sort of friendly banter or battle of wits with our Friends/Family. I've never cared for it that much but I've become very good at playing the game. I admit that it can be fun if people keep it good natured and I'm fine with that. But lately some topics hit a nerve with me and it's odd because I normally have a very thick skin, especially since I spent 23 yrs in the Military and busting each others chops was a daily activity.
Like:
- If someone calls me cheap...I don't think they are being serious but it's like an ice pick in the ribs.
- If someone makes fun of me driving a small hatchback...I have some good come backs for this so I can side step it fairly easy but I feel that this one bothers me because it comes up often. I just feel like showing them my account balance and tell them trust me I can afford something better but choose not to but I also don't want to show them my balance, then they would want to barrow money :-)
- If someone cracks on me for being single or accuses me of being gay...Once again I can shut it down quickly but sometimes I can get down right ugly with my banter.
I know I should just keep a cool head and return fun banter or ask them to back off that topic but dang it's very hard at times. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
Here's what I would say:
1) "I prefer the word 'stingy.'"
2) Give your car a cute name. I called my hatchback Eggbert, and when people made cracks about him, my response was: "You are insulting EGGBERT???!!!" Very loudly. The other people in my office would then say things like: "Oh, you don't want to mess with Eggbert."
3) "Are you offering to fix me up?"
-
...last night, I was making myself some home-made soup when my flatmate came into the kitchen, looked at it and said 'eeew what the fuck is that?' - and laughed.
The book I was talking about earlier describes these kind of questions that are not really questions because they don't expect or want a serious answer. The best way to deal with such "attack questions" (according to the book) is to respond as if it WERE a real question and calmly answer it, in excrutiating detail, in your best Ben Stein monotone. Recite the recipe, describe how you found the recipe, where you bought the ingredients, how much they cost, coupons you used. Drone on and on.
The point being that attack questions are designed to get a rise out of you for the entertainment of the attacker, but if instead you bore them to tears with your answer they will likely not ask you such questions again. They did not get the entertainment they wanted, they will try with someone else.
-
Never let a person make you feel bad for choosing not to tolerate their disrespect anymore.
stolen form the interwebs.......
-
I read a fascinating book many years ago called The Gentle Art of Verbal Self Defense. The author is a linguist, and she spent many years studying what she called the 'grammar' of verbal violence. She talked about how any "innocent" phrase can be delivered in a tone or cadence that signifies a verbal attack, just as any "insult" can be delivered in a tone or cadence that makes the receiver smile and laugh and actually feel better and closer to the person who said it.
It may be that you are sensitive to certain topics, but it might also be that your family and friends are feeling envious of you and are using seemingly innocent expressions to take you down a notch. Possibly without even consciously realizing it.
The book helped me to identify the "melodies" of verbal attack, now whenever I hear it I put up a "wall of pleasant" and let their jibes bounce right off.
It works, most of the time anyway :-)
I will have to check out this book, thanks for sharing the info.
-
...last night, I was making myself some home-made soup when my flatmate came into the kitchen, looked at it and said 'eeew what the fuck is that?' - and laughed.
The book I was talking about earlier describes these kind of questions that are not really questions because they don't expect or want a serious answer. The best way to deal with such "attack questions" (according to the book) is to respond as if it WERE a real question and calmly answer it, in excrutiating detail, in your best Ben Stein monotone. Recite the recipe, describe how you found the recipe, where you bought the ingredients, how much they cost, coupons you used. Drone on and on.
The point being that attack questions are designed to get a rise out of you for the entertainment of the attacker, but if instead you bore them to tears with your answer they will likely not ask you such questions again. They did not get the entertainment they wanted, they will try with someone else.
Nice, thanks for that. I went for a long sigh, with my hands on my hips, and then I continued with food prep (for the other parts of the meal) which I think made it clear I was not up for any 'hilarious' banter but also made things very awkward. Giving a detailed, accurate answer would be much more entertaining and less emotionally charged. I will definitely remember this for the future.
-
I'm sure just about everyone has taken part of some sort of friendly banter or battle of wits with our Friends/Family. I've never cared for it that much but I've become very good at playing the game. I admit that it can be fun if people keep it good natured and I'm fine with that. But lately some topics hit a nerve with me and it's odd because I normally have a very thick skin, especially since I spent 23 yrs in the Military and busting each others chops was a daily activity.
Like:
- If someone calls me cheap...I don't think they are being serious but it's like an ice pick in the ribs.
- If someone makes fun of me driving a small hatchback...I have some good come backs for this so I can side step it fairly easy but I feel that this one bothers me because it comes up often. I just feel like showing them my account balance and tell them trust me I can afford something better but choose not to but I also don't want to show them my balance, then they would want to barrow money :-)
- If someone cracks on me for being single or accuses me of being gay...Once again I can shut it down quickly but sometimes I can get down right ugly with my banter.
I know I should just keep a cool head and return fun banter or ask them to back off that topic but dang it's very hard at times. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
Here's what I would say:
1) "I prefer the word 'stingy.'"
2) Give your car a cute name. I called my hatchback Eggbert, and when people made cracks about him, my response was: "You are insulting EGGBERT???!!!" Very loudly. The other people in my office would then say things like: "Oh, you don't want to mess with Eggbert."
3) "Are you offering to fix me up?"
Hahaha my friend used to drive around a very bashed up Fiat Punto - it was tiny and had a temperamental passenger door that sometimes fell open.
I remember someone honking their horn at the car one day when we were driving around and he responded 'Nobody toots THE PUNTO'.
-
Maybe try not giving a fuck?
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
LOL - thanks for the great read.
-
Most of the time I play nice with friends and try to build them up, compliment them, it's just part of my good nature but then the same people will turn around and take a dig on me. That's when I have a choice...I can grin and bare it...defend myself with reason...deflect with something funny...or tear them a new A-hole...lol. After being in the military for so long I kind of have a gift to lay into someone like the Gunny Sergeant in Full Metal Jacket but it gets old and not my natural instinct or maybe I'm a little rusty and my material is a little stale.
I know we humans can be insecure and mean spirited at times and try to blow someone's candle out so ours look brighter. But I don't try to make someone feel bad because they drive a crappy car...I would give them props! What no payment hell yeah, drive that thing into the ground! I mostly get the jabs from people who are insecure (Thats probably why they spent so much on their car) and they make me feel like I'm beneath them. I guess if I wasn't so insecure myself then it wouldn't matter...wait did I just figure out my problem? Ahhhahaha! Maybe when they take a jab I should just ask them why are they insecure? Do I threaten your livelihood? I know some people will say just don't worry about it...how do I turn that switch off? Or does it just happen slowly over time?
I think I may have been a little insecure about the topics I listed. Maybe they dig on me because there was a time were I was on the cheap side when I was over saving or maybe they see how well I've done and that I don't have to work like them or they might wish they could save themselves. Maybe they can get a rise out of me from my car because I do have some insecurity (About 20%) about my "G-ride" because I've always driven trucks and the good ole American advertisers imprinted the guy stereo type into my head or maybe other people are just a "Crab in the bucket" and trying to keep me in debt. Maybe they can get a rise out of me for being single because I do have a little insecurity about being single (About 10%) or maybe they are trying to rub my nose in it or maybe they think I'm a good catch. One thing I really don't like is when someone digs on me or others about how much money they make or don't make...I hate down playing my wealth. I'm going to work on my perspective!
Overall some people try to get a rise out of you and if you "ALLOW" it to happen then they won. I think maybe I just need to work more at the funny comebacks...lol. I'll continue to build people up but will keep a few comebacks handy incase the time arises. I guess I could opt out of the game but I will admit I do like it sometimes.
You guys had some great points of view and had some good comebacks...I'll read through this again and share some of my own :-).
-
It means that deep down you are probably insecure about those topics, for whatever reason. If you were completely comfortable with it, then it would not bother you.
Yep. For something said to bug you, you have to already have a thing about it. Not judging-I have plenty of topics I dont like being joked about. Maybe you are changing-what once did not bug you now does?
Yup...I changed! I use to be the guy driving big trucks and jeeps. I bucked against my wiring to take control of my life. Now for the most part I miss that part and I could rejoin that part of my life if I wanted to because I have the assets but I don't really have a good reason to partake in it unless I have a reason to tow something. At this time I like the low cost of driving.
-
Maybe try not giving a fuck?
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
Ahhaha...the picture of Tim w/ balloons just became my new desktop photo!
-
I have found that light-heartedly mocking yourself preemptively can smooth out some of this sort of thing. If at work I refer to my car as "the kind of car a normal person would have already thrown away," it's pretty hard for someone to get under my skin about it in the parking lot.
-
Another +1 for "sometimes it just gets annoying." Sometimes you're not really deep-down sensitive about the topic; it can just get irritating to hear the same thing over and over.
Just a few weeks ago we were on a long cruise, and my 12 y.o. daughter pointed out every single time I had a cup of coffee that I like to add 2-3 packets of sugar, and how much sugar that is, and I can't believe you put in that much sugar, etc. I certainly am not insecure about it (I'm fit and healthy) and don't give a single fuck about it, but I have to admit that by the 20th time or so it became a tired subject to me. I eventually said, "Enough already! Yes I like sugar in my coffee, it's no secret, and we don't need to focus on it every single time!"
So yeah OP, I hear ya that it can be aggravating. If you do have underlying sensitivities about the subjects, then it's worth considering with yourself whether you should care what others think or if you're insecure about it. However, sometimes it's just annoying hearing the same tired things over and over and doesn't reflect on you having insecurities.
-
My recommendation:
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/4e/4e53e75f4a223a144301c6d4da0401d4763a3ba39b46727dfc49aba41998567d.jpg)
-
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
(http://i.imgur.com/RsI9t.gif)
-
No one really picks on me about my car, but I've been tempted to get this bumper sticker anyway:
(http://i3.cpcache.com/product/61870762/bumper_sticker_dont_laugh_its_paid_for.jpg?color=White&height=460&width=460&qv=90)
http://www.cafepress.com/mf/12995676/bumper-sticker-dont-laugh-its-paid-for_bumper-sticker?utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=61870762--c-9019639&utm_source=pla-google&utm_campaign=175057690&utm_content=13746568570&productId=61870762
-
...I can grin and bare it...
i might start doing this. might horrify people into not bothering me.
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
-
I think this sort of thing often happens without those involved fully realizing it. Last year, I went on a group trip in Chile, and aside from the fact that it was a beautiful place, fun, etc., it was also full of people who were genuinely nice. I mean those who worked there and my fellow travelers, but it was obviously created by those who work there, and the visitors picked it up. It felt almost contrived at first (lots of "How was your day?" and actually waiting for answer, people I just met using my name, big genuine smiles, random hugs, etc.), but I realized it only felt that way to me because I was coming from such a toxic, sarcastic work environment. I came home and quit my job. I had been contemplating changing jobs anyway, but that was the last straw.
I have found the heading them off at the pass does help when it's possible to do so -- commenting on your own POS car, insulting yourself even more than they already have, etc. A firm, silent "Miss Manners" stare also helps if it's a completely inappropriate comment. And I love the "innocent questions" tactic. Sometimes people don't realize how awful they're being until you show them.
On the other hand, there are some people who just can't be shown, or won't admit to being wrong even when you can tell by their body language that they know they screwed up. Those people do not get to remain in my life. Or, if they're family and I can't completely avoid them, I put as many barriers between us as possible.
-
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
Pull on your inner position of strength and confidence! comments slide right off.
or...
Splash out on fancy clothes, nice watch, big SUV and some arm candy. Then the comments will stop :)
-
I agree that sometimes these things hit a nerve because it's something you're insecure about, but I don't think that's always the case.
For example, I'm often annoyed by people who tell me how young I look or ask how old I am. I'm thrilled that people think I look younger than I am, and I'm not at all sensitive or insecure about it, but it drives me insane because it's a gigantic waste of time. I have to get through that mini-conversation before I can get down to business at work, often with person after person after person. I also have a last name that inspires the same comment by every. single. person. who ever hears/sees it, and okay, I'm not in kindergarten anymore, so I'm totally over it, but come on. I'm not in kindergarten anymore, and neither are you. Can we not get past making fun of someone's name? It's annoying and, again, a waste of time to make the obvious comment about my name. Original content, please?
-
For example, I'm often annoyed by people who tell me how young I look or ask how old I am. I'm thrilled that people think I look younger than I am, and I'm not at all sensitive or insecure about it, but it drives me insane because it's a gigantic waste of time.
Start answering like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BM7B-SeNEhI
-
Has anyone here read "Nonviolent Communication"? I've heard goods things about it but the book is always checked out from my library. Anyone who has read it care to give an excerpt? :)
http://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-A-Language-Life/dp/1892005034
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
Oh, this one made me LOL at work! It would be priceless to say it to someone.
-
Has anyone here read "Nonviolent Communication"? I've heard goods things about it but the book is always checked out from my library. Anyone who has read it care to give an excerpt? :)
http://www.amazon.com/Nonviolent-Communication-A-Language-Life/dp/1892005034
Haven't read it, but it looks interesting. I'm liking the book suggestions that have shown up on this thread, so I'm posting to follow in hopes there are more suggestions to come!
-
It really does matter how it is delivered and what tone, etc. But it is not fun to tease the same person about the same crap all the time. No wonder you are sick of it and I would be too. My sister has spent her whole life single by choice and I can't tell you how many comments I got from people when we were younger always asking is she was gay, who she was dating, etc. After awhile it really started to piss me off. By age 42 she quit dating-so what? It was her decision. She never wanted to marry or live with someone and people found that odd. I guess I would try to comeback with something that is intended to make them stop. Good luck:))
When people ask me why I'm still single?
When I don't care: I'm broken! I'm Single by Choice. Just Not My Choice!
To a hot woman: I'm just lucky I guess! Why are you interested?
To a buddy in front of his woman: I'm just waiting for you chick to break up with you! Or ask the woman if he's proposed to her yet?
Nuclear: Ahhhahaha....go fuck yourself! How are you still married?
-
I'm sure just about everyone has taken part of some sort of friendly banter or battle of wits with our Friends/Family. I've never cared for it that much but I've become very good at playing the game. I admit that it can be fun if people keep it good natured and I'm fine with that. But lately some topics hit a nerve with me and it's odd because I normally have a very thick skin, especially since I spent 23 yrs in the Military and busting each others chops was a daily activity.
Like:
- If someone calls me cheap...I don't think they are being serious but it's like an ice pick in the ribs.
- If someone makes fun of me driving a small hatchback...I have some good come backs for this so I can side step it fairly easy but I feel that this one bothers me because it comes up often. I just feel like showing them my account balance and tell them trust me I can afford something better but choose not to but I also don't want to show them my balance, then they would want to barrow money :-)
- If someone cracks on me for being single or accuses me of being gay...Once again I can shut it down quickly but sometimes I can get down right ugly with my banter.
I know I should just keep a cool head and return fun banter or ask them to back off that topic but dang it's very hard at times. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
If someone asks if you are gay, and they are the same gender, just say "sorry, I am not interested" then watch their face turn red.
To the rest, alot of people are intimidated by others who exhibit self control. Especially if they seem content, as if it is no effort. It's likely something they haven't mastered yet so out of their mouth comes a put down. It helps them feel better about their own weakness in that area. JMHO
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
Oh, this one made me LOL at work! It would be priceless to say it to someone.
I've used this in a sense. I drive a '99 Metro to work. While smarming with a coworker about a different coworker compensating for something with his gigantic commuter pickup I said that I do that too.
-
When people ask me why I'm still single?
When I don't care: I'm broken! I'm Single by Choice. Just Not My Choice!
To a hot woman: I'm just lucky I guess! Why are you interested?
To a buddy in front of his woman: I'm just waiting for you chick to break up with you! Or ask the woman if he's proposed to her yet?
Nuclear: Ahhhahaha....go fuck yourself! How are you still married?
that is golden...im putting that one in the ole memory bank...
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
As others here have said, sometimes things just get old. Jokes about sexuality, economic status and race were the norm in my family, and I grew out of them without ever announcing it or verbalizing it. I simply let it happen whenever I was around, which wasn't often. When I introduced my girlfriend (now wife) to my family, the jokes continued and were problematic because my family is white and my wife is not. I didn't prep either side properly, and now the relationship is dead from the toxic fallout. Long story short, I called my family on their inappropriate behavior and they shrugged and said "Who, us?"
If the joking seems inappropriate to you, I'd recommend being vocal about it to avoid a situation like mine. My family are decent if misguided people, and I could have salvaged a relationship with them if I had told them over the years how to behave more decently in front of new people, if not in front of people they purport to love. They probably feel like everything with my wife and me was sprung on them at once, which caused them to dig in in defense of some really nasty behavior. They chose to do that, made that bed and are sleeping in it, but I feel like some comments from me over the years could have primed the pump and produced a better result.
I totally relate...My Dad and Sister both have the gift of not having a mouth filter. Last time I visited my Sister she jabbed me hard a few times when I wasn't ready for it. Like she introduced me to one of her coworkers "This is my unemployed brother!" but she did see my face and corrected herself and mentioned that I was retired AF. Then she called me cheap 3 times in front of her friends for not donating to her charity race...and I was trying to hit on one of her good looking friends (Completely derailed my game). The sad part was I was planning on matching her overall total of donations...I ended up not donating nothing.
When I visited my Dad: I just arrived after driving 2 days for a visit, (Preface: I've lost 50 lbs) cracked a beer after I arrived and before I finished my beer he mentioned that I look like a cancer patient (I let that one slide). Then the next day he said something like that again and I lost it and laid into him. A couple days later he jabbed a few times about being cheap in front of other people (Note they are all heavy in debt)...it caught me off guard but I said a few tasteless things back about having zero money issues.
When it comes from Family it really can get to me...I know they love me a lot and talk well of me when I'm away but I just wished I heard it more when I was home.
I also agree on the Gay bashing, which happens often with my Friends. I mean what if I was gay? I could come up with a few whips on that but I will let that one be.
Ok maybe one...lol: I could get on your level, but I don't like being on my knees as much as you do!
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
Oh, this one made me LOL at work! It would be priceless to say it to someone.
I've used this in a sense. I drive a '99 Metro to work. While smarming with a coworker about a different coworker compensating for something with his gigantic commuter pickup I said that I do that too.
I'll be using those in the future! Classic!
-
We get teased about certain things, including not having smartphones. This one really bothers me. I have used Kris's approach before ("Why are you so bothered by my lack of a smartphone?"), but the jokes keep coming.
We are also considered the lame ones in our group because we don't go to Vegas with them for their birthdays, since they live in the Midwest and I can just drive 10 minutes and wish them a birthday at a nearby restaurant. We also don't like to stay out late, because our kids are early risers and therefore need to be in bed by 7:30 or they are gigantic pains in the asses the next day. This also elicits some jokes about being prematurely old.
Since I'm a former graduate student and an academic, somehow I get a "free pass" for being lame, at least that's what one of our friends said recently when he brought up my lameness. But my husband, who has known them longer, is apparently unacceptable and contradictory, especially in his lack of a smartphone. I don't get it. They judge him more somewhat harshly for it. But my question is - why the fuck do they care?
And I'm not projecting here. These are actual conversations we have had with words like "lame," "old", etc. being used. I try not to let it bother me. I have concluded it says more about them than it says about me. I'm okay with who I am, even if that means my friends think I'm 38 going on 60. Oh, well.
What's funny about this is that pop-culture wise, my husband and I are the most cutting edge so to speak in that we watch the most non-traditional television shows and know the most about indie bands, books and movies. But apparently that doesn't increase our street cred with them.
-
I used to enjoy "friendly banter" and being "witty" a lot more, and at some point I realized: that's what people say to justifying being mean, obnoxious, or bullying. This type of banter meant that I was always putting people down or being put down, it was super negative.
The fact that it's funny or teasing or whatever is the cover we use to excuse this behavior. At some point, though, a lot of people don't find it funny. It's either annoying and sometimes straight up hurtful.
There are some people I felt comfortable point that out to (one buddy shares in confidence that I always made him feel bad when we were younger :( ). There were some people that I just had to cut back on spending time with. I made it a point not to engage in this and not to hang around other people who did this as their form of socializing or bonding. The hardest was within my family dynamic.
I don't agree that the things that bug you are always insecurity. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's stuff that means something to you or go to your core values. If you believe that it's good to save money or drive an old car and someone mocks that, it's natural for that to upset you.
I agree it would probably be more healthy to be in a cleaner environment but I would have to cut almost everyone out of my life and start over again. I'll do my best to say away from my nuclear options for my comebacks.
-
Who are these people? Maybe you need new friends? I hope they aren't relatives.
My DD jokes that she and boyfriend are old, because they have to get up early for work and don't stay up late any more (late 20's). They are laughing at their younger selves who did hit the bars a lot. But by the late 20's, pretty well all their friends are sensible about lifestyle choices, even if they do try to break body parts on vacation (snowboarding).
I had a floor-mate in residence first year university who kept asking me personal questions. Being polite and well-brought-up, I answered, and she got nosier. I finally asked her why she was asking me all this, and she replied that she wanted to see how far she could get me to go. So there are people who really do like to push people's buttons. I got really good at ignoring people like that, or just answering MYOB (a bit more politely) or asking them why they cared to know, or why do they think that is worth saying? Blank stares can be useful too. Of course what I would like to say, in a snarky, tone, is "well aren't you the little nosy Parker/snarker now?" but as I said, too polite.
We are also considered the lame ones in our group because we don't go to Vegas with them for their birthdays, since they live in the Midwest and I can just drive 10 minutes and wish them a birthday at a nearby restaurant. We also don't like to stay out late, because our kids are early risers and therefore need to be in bed by 7:30 or they are gigantic pains in the asses the next day. This also elicits some jokes about being prematurely old.
-
We get teased about certain things, including not having smartphones. This one really bothers me. I have used Kris's approach before ("Why are you so bothered by my lack of a smartphone?"), but the jokes keep coming.
We are also considered the lame ones in our group because we don't go to Vegas with them for their birthdays, since they live in the Midwest and I can just drive 10 minutes and wish them a birthday at a nearby restaurant. We also don't like to stay out late, because our kids are early risers and therefore need to be in bed by 7:30 or they are gigantic pains in the asses the next day. This also elicits some jokes about being prematurely old.
Since I'm a former graduate student and an academic, somehow I get a "free pass" for being lame, at least that's what one of our friends said recently when he brought up my lameness. But my husband, who has known them longer, is apparently unacceptable and contradictory, especially in his lack of a smartphone. I don't get it. They judge him more somewhat harshly for it. But my question is - why the fuck do they care?
And I'm not projecting here. These are actual conversations we have had with words like "lame," "old", etc. being used. I try not to let it bother me. I have concluded it says more about them than it says about me. I'm okay with who I am, even if that means my friends think I'm 38 going on 60. Oh, well.
What's funny about this is that pop-culture wise, my husband and I are the most cutting edge so to speak in that we watch the most non-traditional television shows and know the most about indie bands, books and movies. But apparently that doesn't increase our street cred with them.
Oh man, I use to get that too about the phone. They would talk about my Fred Flintstone phone...lol. I also get called old/lame/married single guy/Cinderella because I never stay out past midnight (Most of the time its 11pm).
-
I had a floor-mate in residence first year university who kept asking me personal questions. Being polite and well-brought-up, I answered, and she got nosier. I finally asked her why she was asking me all this, and she replied that she wanted to see how far she could get me to go. So there are people who really do like to push people's buttons. I got really good at ignoring people like that, or just answering MYOB (a bit more politely) or asking them why they cared to know, or why do they think that is worth saying? Blank stares can be useful too. Of course what I would like to say, in a snarky, tone, is "well aren't you the little nosy Parker/snarker now?" but as I said, too polite.
About a year ago I had to have a serious talk with my Sister because it got toxic during a visit. While we talked it dawned on me that she would fence sit or play devils advocate on just about every topic, instead of sharing what her true views on a subject. Our relationship has been 10X better since the talk.
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
As others here have said, sometimes things just get old. Jokes about sexuality, economic status and race were the norm in my family, and I grew out of them without ever announcing it or verbalizing it. I simply let it happen whenever I was around, which wasn't often. When I introduced my girlfriend (now wife) to my family, the jokes continued and were problematic because my family is white and my wife is not. I didn't prep either side properly, and now the relationship is dead from the toxic fallout. Long story short, I called my family on their inappropriate behavior and they shrugged and said "Who, us?"
If the joking seems inappropriate to you, I'd recommend being vocal about it to avoid a situation like mine. My family are decent if misguided people, and I could have salvaged a relationship with them if I had told them over the years how to behave more decently in front of new people, if not in front of people they purport to love. They probably feel like everything with my wife and me was sprung on them at once, which caused them to dig in in defense of some really nasty behavior. They chose to do that, made that bed and are sleeping in it, but I feel like some comments from me over the years could have primed the pump and produced a better result.
I totally relate...My Dad and Sister both have the gift of not having a mouth filter. Last time I visited my Sister she jabbed me hard a few times when I wasn't ready for it. Like she introduced me to one of her coworkers "This is my unemployed brother!" but she did see my face and corrected herself and mentioned that I was retired AF. Then she called me cheap 3 times in front of her friends for not donating to her charity race...and I was trying to hit on one of her good looking friends (Completely derailed my game). The sad part was I was planning on matching her overall total of donations...I ended up not donating nothing.
When I visited my Dad: I just arrived after driving 2 days for a visit, (Preface: I've lost 50 lbs) cracked a beer after I arrived and before I finished my beer he mentioned that I look like a cancer patient (I let that one slide). Then the next day he said something like that again and I lost it and laid into him. A couple days later he jabbed a few times about being cheap in front of other people (Note they are all heavy in debt)...it caught me off guard but I said a few tasteless things back about having zero money issues.
When it comes from Family it really can get to me...I know they love me a lot and talk well of me when I'm away but I just wished I heard it more when I was home.
I also agree on the Gay bashing, which happens often with my Friends. I mean what if I was gay? I could come up with a few whips on that but I will let that one be.
Ok maybe one...lol: I could get on your level, but I don't like being on my knees as much as you do!
My Dad and Sister also have a gift of dropping a bomb on someone then when someone gets mad about it they turn it back around again so that that person will feel bad again. Like: sorry I didn't know you were so sensitive. Sorry I'm such an A-hole!
-
There have been a couple of times in my life where I felt the same way. The one I remember most was after a serious long-time girlfriend I had proposed to (because pregnant!) was hit and killed by a drunk driver. Never did find out if the answer was yes or no.
I'm an intensely private person in real life, and in particular with respect to dating I do not involve my family at all. At all. Mostly this is because my parents have teased me about girls my entire life. It is one of my earliest memories.
After the accident I went home to visit them, and when they opened the door they greeted me with the same question they always did, "have you found a girl yet?" They had no knowledge of my dating situation, they never had.
I proceeded to have a complete and total breakdown. I told them everything, the entire history of this relationship, and how their constant teasing about this topic led me to conceal from them this person who meant so much to me, and at the same time open the door to them inflicting on me a truly horrifying greeting in this one particular instance.
It's not a topic they've ever brought up with me since.
And since then when there is a topic that makes me uncomfortable, truly bothers me, with anyone, I just take them aside for a sincere exchange about what it does to me to when they do it. 100% of the time people have respected that. If I ever come across someone who doesn't, I'll know I've found a bully and do my best to avoid them in the future.
Remember that none of us is good at this, and what comes out of most people's mouth is just filling the silence. Address it with deliberateness in yourself, respond to it with compassion in others.
The privacy with respect to dating has meant I have constantly had to deal with the sexual orientation question too, and it always irritated me because:
1. What a weird thing to speculate about in another person?
2. So what if I am?
3. What does that have to do with dating? A gay single person largely resembles a straight single person?
4. Why does my value as a person hinge on my relationship status?
It's bothered me my whole life, the combination of not actually wanting to know what's going on with me, just wanting to make sure if I fit a category that they shun they make sure they know.
There's plenty of reasons to hate me without knowing anything about where I'm currently storing my erections, thank you.
And I just roll my eyes at the car jokes. I fucking hate my car too, thank you very much for pointing that out how shitty it is. It's remarkably poop free though, unlike your sofa! *pulls up pants and exits building*
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9Uu2T0q0E
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV9Uu2T0q0E
Amazeballs.
-
I had a co-worker rib me for my frugal ways. He is still slaving away. I am not. Remember...
He who laughs last - laughs best.
-
It doesn't come very direct to me about this, probably because almost everyone I've talked to for more than 2 hours or so, outside of work, knows that I'm saving to retire in 7 years. If anyone gets annoying, I tend to ask them what their retirement plans are.
But at its core, I know I am financially in a much better place than 95%+ of the people I know, so I have a core sense of sorrow/sympathy for other people's finances - so questions about what I spend, or what I spend on, just don't have much impact.
-
Actually, I have to follow onto this. I have a friend who works as a contractor, and over the last couple of years he's been unemployed for several periods of time when I know he has run short on money/borrowed money from his parents.
Anyway, his personality varies, my theory is that at base, he's reasonable but a bit arrogant, but when he's in a relationship his arrogance steps up a fair bit, and if he's employed, it does that again. So his arrogance has often rubbed me the wrong way.
So, about 5 weeks ago, he got a new job - thus ending his most recent unemployed period, and last night I went around to another friend's place - essentially once a week we get together with a group of friends for a video/gaming night, and in his driveway was this massive new Mercedes-Benz - I really don't know what sort it was, just more of a van than a sedan shape.
As we left, it turned out that it belonged to the newly re-employed friend, who I'm pretty sure has near zero net worth. I'm still, just flabbergasted. And my mind keeps turning over what to say when he brings it up (although there is a chance he won't because he already knows what I think). My mind turns between, well I could buy one myself, but I'd have to put off retirement by a year, or I could sell my bank stocks and buy one - but what would be the point, or, I thought you were going to save for a house deposit, or... ok.. I'll probably just be nice, but arrggghhhh......
-
We buy at cars at about 3 years and then keep them until the die or cost too much to repair. So in 2002 I bought a nice 1999 Volvo and everyone thought it was awesome. Later though I kept getting "it's old" remarks. I would say-it feels great to drive and is paid for. Then I would go on how I intended to drive it till it had 400,000 miles. Then I would get "It's not reliable to take on trips." I would counter with I get it looked over before we leave. It never actually bothered me and I would always say "We have no car payment-awesome!" Eventually people stopped. Unfortunately at 14 yo and 178,000 miles it needed repairs that totaled 6K so we parted ways. Now we are doing the same thing with a Honda Accord and a Toyota Corolla. Right now they are both still nice:))
-
I had a floor-mate in residence first year university who kept asking me personal questions. Being polite and well-brought-up, I answered, and she got nosier. I finally asked her why she was asking me all this, and she replied that she wanted to see how far she could get me to go. So there are people who really do like to push people's buttons. I got really good at ignoring people like that, or just answering MYOB (a bit more politely) or asking them why they cared to know, or why do they think that is worth saying? Blank stares can be useful too. Of course what I would like to say, in a snarky, tone, is "well aren't you the little nosy Parker/snarker now?" but as I said, too polite.
About a year ago I had to have a serious talk with my Sister because it got toxic during a visit. While we talked it dawned on me that she would fence sit or play devils advocate on just about every topic, instead of sharing what her true views on a subject. Our relationship has been 10X better since the talk.
One of my friends does this. And it actually bothers me more than when someone's friendly banter hits a nerve. Because my conversations with her, by expressing my viewpoint I am sharing something about myself. Whereas she shares nothing. It seems rather unfair, which is why I don't like talking with her.
-
I have always struggled with banter. I was born and raised in the UK for 25 years, last 27 here. The UK is the home of "banter", it is a national sport. Ribbing, putting people down, believe me the UK has perfected this. On the whole it is very negative as it is used (IMHO) to keep people in their rightful place, and to make sure no one gets too full of themselves. The end result of course is that many Brits stay in their rightful place. JMHO. In the US, the level of ribbing is maybe a 2-3/10 on the "UK scale". Americans take themselves very seriously (all this is generalization I know), much more seriously than people in the UK, they are very concerned with how they are viewed by others. Sit in a pub in London with UK friends, and be prepared to be ripped to shreds, and to play your own part. I had to learn these differences the hard way believe me!
-
I have always struggled with banter. I was born and raised in the UK for 25 years, last 27 here. The UK is the home of "banter", it is a national sport. Ribbing, putting people down, believe me the UK has perfected this. On the whole it is very negative as it is used (IMHO) to keep people in their rightful place, and to make sure no one gets too full of themselves. The end result of course is that many Brits stay in their rightful place. JMHO. In the US, the level of ribbing is maybe a 2-3/10 on the "UK scale". Americans take themselves very seriously (all this is generalization I know), much more seriously than people in the UK, they are very concerned with how they are viewed by others. Sit in a pub in London with UK friends, and be prepared to be ripped to shreds, and to play your own part. I had to learn these differences the hard way believe me!
I lived in England for a year, and I definitely experienced what you describe. I was in Oxford and spent quite a bit of time in pubs, usually as the only American. Let me tell you, I was definitely ribbed and ripped. It was hard on me, frankly, and by the end of the year I was ready to go home. I could probably handle it much better now that I am older and more secure in myself, but as an early twenties student, it was pretty difficult. I definitely agree with you that overall Americans have thinner skins.
-
Sorry you had to go through that Justajane. Without wanting to derail the thread, a little comedic representation of US v UK banter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X6QqZF3J14
-
2) Give your car a cute name. I called my hatchback Eggbert, and when people made cracks about him, my response was: "You are insulting EGGBERT???!!!" Very loudly. The other people in my office would then say things like: "Oh, you don't want to mess with Eggbert."
Hahaha hilarious!
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
As others here have said, sometimes things just get old. Jokes about sexuality, economic status and race were the norm in my family, and I grew out of them without ever announcing it or verbalizing it. I simply let it happen whenever I was around, which wasn't often. When I introduced my girlfriend (now wife) to my family, the jokes continued and were problematic because my family is white and my wife is not. I didn't prep either side properly, and now the relationship is dead from the toxic fallout. Long story short, I called my family on their inappropriate behavior and they shrugged and said "Who, us?"
If the joking seems inappropriate to you, I'd recommend being vocal about it to avoid a situation like mine. My family are decent if misguided people, and I could have salvaged a relationship with them if I had told them over the years how to behave more decently in front of new people, if not in front of people they purport to love. They probably feel like everything with my wife and me was sprung on them at once, which caused them to dig in in defense of some really nasty behavior. They chose to do that, made that bed and are sleeping in it, but I feel like some comments from me over the years could have primed the pump and produced a better result.
I totally relate...My Dad and Sister both have the gift of not having a mouth filter. Last time I visited my Sister she jabbed me hard a few times when I wasn't ready for it. Like she introduced me to one of her coworkers "This is my unemployed brother!" but she did see my face and corrected herself and mentioned that I was retired AF. Then she called me cheap 3 times in front of her friends for not donating to her charity race...and I was trying to hit on one of her good looking friends (Completely derailed my game). The sad part was I was planning on matching her overall total of donations...I ended up not donating nothing.
When I visited my Dad: I just arrived after driving 2 days for a visit, (Preface: I've lost 50 lbs) cracked a beer after I arrived and before I finished my beer he mentioned that I look like a cancer patient (I let that one slide). Then the next day he said something like that again and I lost it and laid into him. A couple days later he jabbed a few times about being cheap in front of other people (Note they are all heavy in debt)...it caught me off guard but I said a few tasteless things back about having zero money issues.
When it comes from Family it really can get to me...I know they love me a lot and talk well of me when I'm away but I just wished I heard it more when I was home.
I also agree on the Gay bashing, which happens often with my Friends. I mean what if I was gay? I could come up with a few whips on that but I will let that one be.
Ok maybe one...lol: I could get on your level, but I don't like being on my knees as much as you do!
I know it's all in the eye of the beholder but these examples don't seem like friendly banter to me. Maybe it's how I'm reading them, but these comments (especially as you said from family) seem pretty cutting and would hurt me.
I drive a little car and I get teased about it sometimes. My ex's ex referred to it (to him) as the "rollerskate" which he was offended by but I thought it was funny and true. It became my car and refer to it affectionately as the rollerskate now because it really does look like one and it's about that size. I love that it's been paid for for years, gets good gas mileage, U-turns easily, fits in tight spaces, etc.
The people I care about the most wouldn't seriously insult my car or give me crap for losing weight, haven't called me gay or bugged me because I"m single and they never made me feel bad when I was unemployed either.
In short, I think there've been a lot of great suggestions on here for how to respond. I'm just expressing my sympathy that your family isn't kinder.
-
I don't know if I made it clear in other posts but I would never put someone down for any of these things. If I jab someone it's mostly over something goofy they did...like dorking up a golf shot or if they say something dumb.
Comebacks for being called cheap! (I need help finding more of these, I couldn't even find any on the net)
When I don't care: I'm not cheap, I'm thrifty! I'm just not wasteful! I'm on a fixed income!
When irritated: You can spend your money any way you see fit and I'll do the same! It's called a budget...try it some time!
Nuclear: How much debt do you have? When did you become such a D**K? Have fun at work this week!
Comebacks for poking fun at my ride!
When I don't care: It's my gold-digger repellant! It's manly because it has a tow hitch! 34 MPG's all day long! I don't want to put the miles on the Ferrari or the Ferrari's in the shop! I got nothing to prove!
When irritated: How much are your payments? You know nothing about finances!
Nuclear: You're just mad you can't afford my lifestyle! (I did this to a buddy and he fliped his lid. He said "Dude...I make $130K a year". I said find quit your job and lets go travel for a year! Shut him down quick)
-
Comebacks for being called cheap! (I need help finding more of these, I couldn't even find any on the net)
Thank you. I do try to spend money mindfully, it's so kind of you to notice.
Comebacks for poking fun at my ride!
Thank you for taking an interest in my car, it's always nice to hear.
-
The teasing about homosexuality is not cool. I just went to a wedding where the groom's best man (already in the bag) mentioned his suspicions that the 39-year-old groom might have been a "homo" (his word) not once, not twice, but five times. Ended his drunken speech with, "at least now we know for sure he's not a homo." It's just inappropriate and unnecessary.
As others here have said, sometimes things just get old. Jokes about sexuality, economic status and race were the norm in my family, and I grew out of them without ever announcing it or verbalizing it. I simply let it happen whenever I was around, which wasn't often. When I introduced my girlfriend (now wife) to my family, the jokes continued and were problematic because my family is white and my wife is not. I didn't prep either side properly, and now the relationship is dead from the toxic fallout. Long story short, I called my family on their inappropriate behavior and they shrugged and said "Who, us?"
If the joking seems inappropriate to you, I'd recommend being vocal about it to avoid a situation like mine. My family are decent if misguided people, and I could have salvaged a relationship with them if I had told them over the years how to behave more decently in front of new people, if not in front of people they purport to love. They probably feel like everything with my wife and me was sprung on them at once, which caused them to dig in in defense of some really nasty behavior. They chose to do that, made that bed and are sleeping in it, but I feel like some comments from me over the years could have primed the pump and produced a better result.
I totally relate...My Dad and Sister both have the gift of not having a mouth filter. Last time I visited my Sister she jabbed me hard a few times when I wasn't ready for it. Like she introduced me to one of her coworkers "This is my unemployed brother!" but she did see my face and corrected herself and mentioned that I was retired AF. Then she called me cheap 3 times in front of her friends for not donating to her charity race...and I was trying to hit on one of her good looking friends (Completely derailed my game). The sad part was I was planning on matching her overall total of donations...I ended up not donating nothing.
When I visited my Dad: I just arrived after driving 2 days for a visit, (Preface: I've lost 50 lbs) cracked a beer after I arrived and before I finished my beer he mentioned that I look like a cancer patient (I let that one slide). Then the next day he said something like that again and I lost it and laid into him. A couple days later he jabbed a few times about being cheap in front of other people (Note they are all heavy in debt)...it caught me off guard but I said a few tasteless things back about having zero money issues.
When it comes from Family it really can get to me...I know they love me a lot and talk well of me when I'm away but I just wished I heard it more when I was home.
I also agree on the Gay bashing, which happens often with my Friends. I mean what if I was gay? I could come up with a few whips on that but I will let that one be.
Ok maybe one...lol: I could get on your level, but I don't like being on my knees as much as you do!
I know it's all in the eye of the beholder but these examples don't seem like friendly banter to me. Maybe it's how I'm reading them, but these comments (especially as you said from family) seem pretty cutting and would hurt me.
I drive a little car and I get teased about it sometimes. My ex's ex referred to it (to him) as the "rollerskate" which he was offended by but I thought it was funny and true. It became my car and refer to it affectionately as the rollerskate now because it really does look like one and it's about that size. I love that it's been paid for for years, gets good gas mileage, U-turns easily, fits in tight spaces, etc.
The people I care about the most wouldn't seriously insult my car or give me crap for losing weight, haven't called me gay or bugged me because I"m single and they never made me feel bad when I was unemployed either.
In short, I think there've been a lot of great suggestions on here for how to respond. I'm just expressing my sympathy that your family isn't kinder.
I can somewhat understand the jabs about cheap only because I talked about hardcore saving and they are both spendy people. They could never do what I've done and it would never make sense to them. But your right it just shouldn't happen. As for the losing weight I think at the time he was trying to say stuff like; I thought you looked better with a little more weight on you but between his poor mouth filter and not really understanding what a healthy weight looks like so it came out horribly wrong...lol. The more I think about it he's probably pretty insecure. Maybe I should try to think of better ways to communicate with them.
-
I was bullied a lot growing up, and I still have to deal with my inappropriate/hurtful family sometimes. It's tough to be the person who has to come up with a quip to an arrogant comment. When it comes to my family I make sure I'm not alone with anyone so they can't corner me with questions. Walking away without answering also works. Sometimes I'll say why do you ask? Usually I say nothing at all. Just let them keep talking and not respond. Or just going with it and saying something I know will horrify them. I find the less I react/ get tense, the more people leave me alone. Because it's really about making themselves feel better by hurting someone else.
What kind of things are they asking you or say/do to hurt you?
-
I tend to just smile and respond briefly with good cheer (or more tersely) depending on who made the comment and how much it bothered me. The one time I mildly told someone off at work (by expressing that I didn't appreciate her going to the principal and implying my students weren't dressed enough to go play outside...we're both teachers), she got very defensive (lots of "I was thinking of the children!") and eventually told me to "grow the f up." I debated talking to the principal about that, as it would probably have gotten her in a bit of trouble, but decided to let it go after talking with my wife. Since then, I mostly avoid looking at her when walking past her in the hallways, and she doesn't say anything to me either. I doubt she'll be sharing any more secret complaints with the principal about me any time soon, at least.
-
I used to enjoy "friendly banter" and being "witty" a lot more, and at some point I realized: that's what people say to justifying being mean, obnoxious, or bullying. This type of banter meant that I was always putting people down or being put down, it was super negative.
The fact that it's funny or teasing or whatever is the cover we use to excuse this behavior. At some point, though, a lot of people don't find it funny. It's either annoying and sometimes straight up hurtful.
There are some people I felt comfortable point that out to (one buddy shares in confidence that I always made him feel bad when we were younger :( ). There were some people that I just had to cut back on spending time with. I made it a point not to engage in this and not to hang around other people who did this as their form of socializing or bonding. The hardest was within my family dynamic.
I don't agree that the things that bug you are always insecurity. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's stuff that means something to you or go to your core values. If you believe that it's good to save money or drive an old car and someone mocks that, it's natural for that to upset you.
I agree it would probably be more healthy to be in a cleaner environment but I would have to cut almost everyone out of my life and start over again. I'll do my best to say away from my nuclear options for my comebacks.
If all or nearly all of your friends are like this, it might make sense to do some self-examination, because the one thing in common in all those relationships is you. It's like a woman who is always dating losers. That's clearly because she is attracted to losers and she allows them in to her life. So she needs to look at her choices, what she accepts and encourages, and what changes she needs to make.
It doesn't mean you tell all these people tomorrow to go fuck themselves. But maybe you start cultivating relationships with people who are less judgemental and mean-spirited, and over time you drift away from the pricks you currently call friends.
As for how to handle this stuff, in general if what they are talking about is something about which you don't care, say so, without heat or explanation. I drive a 2000 Toyota Echo, a car that even MMM made disparaging remarks about. People are always amazed. Your car is 16 years old?!!?! I either say, "Yup, I just don't care much about cars", or "I love my little Echo".
With more hurtful comments like the weightloss/cancer patient stuff, shaming tends to work pretty well. Again, delivered without yelling and in a simple and short statement, "Wow. That's pretty inappropriate and offensive." If there's an awkward silence after that, good. Don't be the one to fill it. Let them stew in it. Chances are good they will pull something along the lines of "Can't you take a joke?" or "just kidding, Geez". To which you say, "Kidding? It's not funny. It's hurtful." At that point, you've made your point and whether they deflect again or not, you move on. But maybe eventually they will do it less often.
-
I agree that what OP is describing doesn't sound like particularly friendly banter.
You've gotten a lot of great advice already. My advice? Double down, and/or turn it around on them.
- They say your car is small? Tell them yeah, you almost got that awesome Smart Car (or other even smaller car, or maybe unicycle) that you really wanted, but some jerk outbid you, so you ended up with this enormous, gas-guzzling tank. Bummer, huh?
- They call you cheap? Tell them damn straight you're cheap, which is why you're going to be sipping margaritas in Cabo while they're stuck in the rat race until they're old and gray.
- The gay thing? I'd probably say, "What the F do you care?" Or maybe, if you're both the same gender, with mock gentleness, "Sorry, friend, but I'm just not that into you."
- The skinny thing? Say, "I have never felt better in my life. Best thing I ever did, losing that weight."
When you own it and make a joke out of it, even if it secretly stings, you're telling them that they can't penetrate your armor there. And if they push it and it gets uglier, maybe those aren't people you really want to be spending your time with.
You can also turn it around:
"What's your fixation on big cars, anyway? That's kind of a weird fetish, but hey, whatever floats your boat."
"Hey, not all of us are trying to win the 'who can go into the deepest debt' game."
"Dude, you sure talk about being gay a lot. Is there something you want to tell me?"
"Hey, you just keep on loving your beer gut. I know how close you two are."
-
There's another way to handle someone who snipes at you.
You do this if they are doing it to be hateful.
Look them in the eye and ask, politely, with a quizzical expression and voice tone, clearly so that everyone can hear,
"I thought were were all here to [have fun as a family][get our company's business done more efficiently][or whatever other reason applies]. Why would you say something like "You are so cheap. How does that help us [reference the reason you just mentioned]?"
The usual response will be along the lines of "Can't you take a joke?" But it really doesn't matter what it is unless it's an honest apology.
If an honest apology wasn't offered, turn whatever they say back into a question like this:
"As I understand it, we are all here to [reference the reason again]. How does your commenting about my ability to take a joke help us do that?"
No matter what they say, turn it right back to them using the same question format.
Snipers like to fire a shot and stay under cover while they do so.
When you do this, you put the spotlight back on them and their actions. It's no longer about you, it's about them. Very few people want to have everyone else staring at them while they are questioned in this way.
I've only had to do this twice, but it really works. They are unlikely to mess with you again - or even anyone else in your presence.
-
There are quite a few sales guys who report to my husband; one time, this sales guy zooms into the staff car park in his fancy car and parked right next to my DH's 15 year old car...when both got out, the sheepish look on the sales guy was priceless!
Why? My DH knows how much he pays these guys....BUT on the other hand, DH always says the car loans will keep them lean and mean which means they work harder!
One of my friends also cannot understand why i am still driving my old car; at the risk of boasting, i can afford a Merc or a Beemer BUT to me a car is just something to get me from place A to place B...why pay more? i can't understand HER!
To each his /her own!...
-
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
(http://i.imgur.com/RsI9t.gif)
This is classic....
-
Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
(http://i.imgur.com/RsI9t.gif)
This is classic....
I am so going to use this on the day I have a money-related argument on the Internet.
-
You've gotten a lot of great advice already. My advice? Double down, and/or turn it around on them.
I don't understand why so many people persist with this sort of advice/tactics. If the issue is that Person A interacts with Person B in a way that Person B finds inappropriate, there's a general mismatch in communication methods. Person B just communicating harder in their own style doesn't resolve this.
I have a friend who, when we first met, had an extremely short fuse. The very first time he visited us we had been teasing him (and ourselves) a bit, and he raged out. Like swiping objects off a table and walking off mad. There are two parties at fault here. One was us, for not noticing we were hurting our friend, and the other was our friend, for not communicating his hurt in an appropriate fashion. As soon as he came back, we stopped the game we had been playing. "Friend, it's clear that we upset you, and that wasn't our intention, and we're sorry. But your reaction (storming off, throwing objects) was not appropriate. The next time you feel we've stepped over a line, we need you to tell us right away, and we'll respect that." We both set expectations and boundaries. You know what? We've never had a repeat. We've all used early and clear communication to draw boundaries. Last week I found out he used that same technique with another friend who had crossed a line, so the technique is spreading!
Teasing/turning it around/intensifying the interaction doesn't solve the issue. Being very clear about what you're looking for in communication, and what you are willing to tolerate, helps a lot more. I've found few people, even adults significantly older than I am, do not expect you to interrupt their behavior and express that certain things are not ok, or are inappropriate. And anyone who persists in these activities is a grade A asshole.
-
I don't understand why so many people persist with this sort of advice/tactics. If the issue is that Person A interacts with Person B in a way that Person B finds inappropriate, there's a general mismatch in communication methods. Person B just communicating harder in their own style doesn't resolve this.
+1 on this! If someone is teasing you and it's getting on your nerves there are 3 possible explanations:
1. They believe they are being playful and fun, they have no clue that what they are saying bothers you and would be mortified if they did.
2. They are feeling angry or slighted or envious toward you and are expressing that, possibly without even realizing it.
3. They are dysfunctional in some way and seek out victims to harass. They are constantly testing the people around them, looking for the hot buttons that they can push to rile you up. Once found, they push those buttons whenever they are bored and find entertainment in your emotional response.
No matter which explanation fits, the snarky comeback will not fix the problem.
In situation 1, you will hurt a person who genuinely likes you and is trying to build a playful relationship
In situation 2, you will only exacerbate that persons negative feelings toward you and further damage the relationship
In situation 3, you have fallen for a dysfunctional person's head game. No matter how clever the quip, they win because they got you to respond.
-
Regarding the straightforward approach, the problem with that is that then you become the "sensitive one" and the one with the thin skin. I've seen it happen. Maybe some of us don't want to become "that friend" that everyone thinks they have to tiptoe around.
I actually think the more subtle approach (call if snarky if you will) can be even more effective at changing behavior and effectively maintaining the relationship.
If someone really hurt you at a deep level, sure, bring it up in a more straightforward way. But if it's just a communication style that you don't prefer, I don't think sitting them down and having a heart to heart is going to necessarily give you a better result.
-
When someone is rude, I apply the Fart Rules.
A minor first offense gets silence.
Second offense elicits a wince & a face like I think they soiled themselves.
Serious or serial offenders inspire physical distance. Walk away, move away, cut them out of your life kind of response depending on the severity. These may be bullies who know they are wrong and don't care that they are wrong. Isolation or a time-out might teach them a lesson. But engagement does not. A snappy retort makes them think you are enjoying the ribbing and that it is mutual. It encourages them. The main thing is not to defend something that doesn't need defending. You don't need to defend your weight, choice of a car or a mate or your frugality nor do you need to tolerate teasing about any of those things.
I stumbled onto this as a young adult. At a family function, an uncle set out to tease me with a "complement" to my sister. He said to her within earshot of everyone "Wow, you can eat all that and still stay thin unlike your fat sister over there." Too stunned to formulate a response, I immediately stood up and walked out with no word or expression. I walked to a nearby library and wouldn't return until I saw his car was gone. That my weight was perfectly fine is beside the point, it's rude to tease someone about their physical appearance, yet this is something he'd always done to lots of people. Getting up and leaving was incredibly powerful when he expected me to just roll with it and laugh along. He never again mentioned my appearance, which was one win. The other was the knowledge that in any similar circumstance, I could just get up and leave.
-
Regarding the straightforward approach, the problem with that is that then you become the "sensitive one" and the one with the thin skin.
I think snarky comments make a person come across as too sensitive or thin skinned. People using the straightforward approach come across as rational adults, which encourages those around them to behave like adults as well.
-
You've gotten a lot of great advice already. My advice? Double down, and/or turn it around on them.
I don't understand why so many people persist with this sort of advice/tactics. If the issue is that Person A interacts with Person B in a way that Person B finds inappropriate, there's a general mismatch in communication methods. Person B just communicating harder in their own style doesn't resolve this.
...
Teasing/turning it around/intensifying the interaction doesn't solve the issue. Being very clear about what you're looking for in communication, and what you are willing to tolerate, helps a lot more. I've found few people, even adults significantly older than I am, do not expect you to interrupt their behavior and express that certain things are not ok, or are inappropriate. And anyone who persists in these activities is a grade A asshole.
Two wrongs don't make a right. I have a banterous relationship with many friends (in the apparently typical British way...), but it's not fair to give it out if you can't take it. Most of the time it's fine for one of us to say "Not today" or "I'm not in the mood right now" and we'll back off. Definitely use this as a first step in a world weary tone. However, I would never expect the same from an acquaintance or co-worker. If this continues and I don't want to banter back, I definitely use one of the following, said in a totally deadpan serious voice:
"Sorry, I didn't quite understand the joke. Could you explain it to me?"
"I don't think that's appropriate, do you?"
"Why are you so interested in X?"
"I think we've heard enough about X now."
"That's not very kind, is it?"
If they say "Can't you take a joke?" respond with "It's not a joke if no one's laughing".
If you say these in the right way they are actually very cutting, so use with caution. Saying "it's banter" is not an excuse to hurt people, but only when you've communicated to them that it's not banter. Otherwise how will they know? "Bantering" back communicates to them that it's OK and encourages them.
-
Regarding the straightforward approach, the problem with that is that then you become the "sensitive one" and the one with the thin skin.
I think snarky comments make a person come across as too sensitive or thin skinned. People using the straightforward approach come across as rational adults, which encourages those around them to behave like adults as well.
I guess we need to define what we both mean by the straightforward approach. In my head, I have this idea that you pull someone aside or call them later and say, "By the way, Susie, I really don't like it when you joke about my old flip phone." I try to save those types of confrontational moments with my friends for very important matters. But if it's just a joke that I don't really like, I'm not going to do this.
Relationship dynamics are complicated, and I just haven't had this type of approach work if you use it too often. In other words, people don't like to be corrected in this manner very often.
And if you push back in a more indirect way, then that gives them the opportunity to reconsider their behavior gradually and on their own terms, rather than being forced into this uncomfortable confrontational moment.
Dr. Phil-type exchanges might be perfectly rational but they are not realistic for all relationships. If that's not what you mean by straightforward, then perhaps our views aren't that different.
-
If that's not what you mean by straightforward, then perhaps our views aren't that different.
I think shelivesthedream has given some good examples of what I would call a straightforward approach. Her responses are not snarky or sarcastic, just very straightforward and adult.
-
I have a flip phone. People are aghast when I open it and universally respond: "I didn't know they still make those!" followed by increasingly wtf comments.
I smile, nod. Tell them I paid $18 for the phone in 2005 and "by the way, what was your cell phone bill last month?"
They answer and I shake my head sadly.
"What a shame. Mine was $12."
Because....unless you start paying my mortgage, I truly don't give a fuck what your opinion is on what I do with my money.
Etc.
And as an ex-New Yorker....I truly don't care who you are: your opinion has nothing to do with me. A jerk manager at work was snotty to me yesterday saying "why did you do that hand thing when you left?"
"You mean wave good-bye?"
"Yeah, you always do something when you pass my desk. Like today when you walked by."
"Well...I just smiled at you on the way by. But I'm more than happy to frown at you, or flip you off as I pass: whatever works." My ex-boss from another department was standing behind him and almost swallowed his tongue.
I so don't care.
-
I think whether a joking response is appropriate or effective depends on the teaser's intent, the nature of the offense, and what the teasee is trying to accomplish.
A reply equating a small car and large penis, for example, sort of says that the comment didn't really phase you and that you took it in a fairly friendly way and are responding in kind, and it also says you are perfectly comfortable with your car/phone/weight/whatever. You know they were joking and probably weren't mean-spirited in doing so, and it's not a subject that makes you uncomfortable, so you don't do anything that might seem like a correction, and you keep it light. You are able to joke about it because it isn't sensitive, and because you don't think they meant to hurt you or that they are actually being truly critical.
If you feel they are being intentionally mean, or if it is a subject about which you have your own issues and thus are not able to have a thick skin (and nearly all of us have those subjects), or if the nature of the comment is inherently offensive to you (such as homophobic, racist, misogynistic, etc. remarks) then telling them the comment was unkind or that it hurt your feelings or that it is inappropriate let's them know you don't find it acceptable. It takes a stand because you find the comment unacceptable, and so you demonstrate that you aren't going to just accept it.
I don't think either approach is wrong, depending on what outcome you desire.
-
I had a floor-mate in residence first year university who kept asking me personal questions. Being polite and well-brought-up, I answered, and she got nosier. I finally asked her why she was asking me all this, and she replied that she wanted to see how far she could get me to go. So there are people who really do like to push people's buttons. I got really good at ignoring people like that, or just answering MYOB (a bit more politely) or asking them why they cared to know, or why do they think that is worth saying? Blank stares can be useful too. Of course what I would like to say, in a snarky, tone, is "well aren't you the little nosy Parker/snarker now?" but as I said, too polite.
About a year ago I had to have a serious talk with my Sister because it got toxic during a visit. While we talked it dawned on me that she would fence sit or play devils advocate on just about every topic, instead of sharing what her true views on a subject. Our relationship has been 10X better since the talk.
One of my friends does this. And it actually bothers me more than when someone's friendly banter hits a nerve. Because my conversations with her, by expressing my viewpoint I am sharing something about myself. Whereas she shares nothing. It seems rather unfair, which is why I don't like talking with her.
Anymore when someone doesn't contribute to the conversation I feel like they are sitting in judgment of something I've said - like we have different opinions on something key and perhaps the other person has the attitude that we should have the same opinion or else my POV isn't valid. That whole - "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all..."
Its a big part of why I don't do social media. Seems like people only want to discuss politics, religion and sexuality these days or rather I should say - pass judgement on these topics.
Doesn't anyone have hobbies any more? I wish someone would tell me about a house they are fixing up or a car repair they did themselves or a model ship they studied for months before replicating.
-
This discussion reminds me of when my first marriage was breaking up and we went to a marriage counselor. When asking about our family backgrounds, my ex told the therapist that his family of origin had been very 'sarcastic'. The counselor pointed out that the word 'sarcasm' comes from a Greek word meaning 'to tear flesh.' Those who like to say cruel and biting things don't stop to think what their thoughtless words do to others. In my ex's family, you were expected to just suck it up - they were 'just having fun,' but it was no fun at all being the brunt of their nasty words.
-
Well, the Forums do talk about these things! I guess we will have to be your social media ;- )
Doesn't anyone have hobbies any more? I wish someone would tell me about a house they are fixing up or a car repair they did themselves or a model ship they studied for months before replicating.
-
the word 'sarcasm' comes from a Greek word meaning 'to tear flesh.'
That is really interesting. I never knew that.
My trouble with sarcasm and "friendly banter" is that it can be very difficult to determine whether the intent behind the comment is light-hearted jest or malice. Two different people can say the exact same words but have very different intents in doing so and have two very effects on the person receiving the comment. The difficulty is that sarcasm and banter gives the malicious person the ability to plausibly deny the malicious intent. This occurs when the person says something like "I'm only joking, don't be so sensitive" and attempts to make you look unreasonable when you know full well that the person is being malicious.
I think this is what happens when friendly banter or sarcasm "hits a nerve." Maybe it truly started as friendly banter, but at some point it crossed the line into malice. As the recipient of the malicious comment, you know (or at least strongly suspect) it is no longer friendly, but the veil of banter and sarcasm makes it less unclear, especially to others who are less perceptive or don't know the whole story.
When this occurs, I think the best approach is to drop the banter and address the malicious person directly in hopes of getting their true thoughts onto the table. Then, one of a three things will happen. One possibility is that you were wrong and there was no malicious intent. In that case, the person genuinely apologizes, says that they did not mean to hurt or insult you, and respects your desire for the comments to end. In this situation, you know that there was no malice and that subject of the banter simply went to a sensitive spot for you. This is the easiest and best outcome.
The second possibility is that the person directly states their ugly-but-honest feelings. In this case, you know what you are dealing with and can choose to how to respond. Depending on how strong and important the relationship is to you, you might be able to work through it with the other person. In this case, you might find that the other person is struggling with something and you can help them through it or you might be able to correct the other person's misconception. You might also realize that the two of you need to agree to disagree and move on but at least you know where you stand with that person. This also has a good possibility of reaching a good, harmonious outcome.
The third possible response is that the person denies having malicious intent but does not acknowledge or respect your desire for the comments to stop. I think this is the hardest situation to deal with because you now know that you are dealing with someone who does not have the guts to tell you how they truly feel and does not respect you enough to apologize or commit to changing their behavior. In this case, there's not much more you can do other than distance yourself from this person. This can be difficult if the other person is someone you cannot easily avoid, like a family member or close coworker. But the lack of honesty and lack of respect makes this almost impossible to work through.
-
I just love when they put it back on you and say "Well, now I won't be free to joke with you any more" and other such nonsense. It's all your fault for being so hypersensitive and now they can't have any fun with you. Poor them.
-
I just want to say "Thank you" to all the people who have given good advice to turn over a new leaf in life. I'm about to head out on a long road trip and will see many friends and family along the way and I know some of these topics/scenarios/comments will come up. So I'm going to do what I can to let them know about my feelings. I got to tell you that it makes me a little nervous but I'm sure it will be for the better.
-
I just love when they put it back on you and say "Well, now I won't be free to joke with you any more" and other such nonsense. It's all your fault for being so hypersensitive and now they can't have any fun with you. Poor them.
I can see both sides of this. On the one hand, yes, this comment can come across as manipulative. Yet, on the other hand, I could see how someone bringing up hurt feelings to them, especially if they truly meant the joke in kindness or jest, that in the future they might put all future jokes under the microscope. This could get exhausting, so instead they decide that it's best to just not go there at all.
The friends that I have a problem with the nagging jokes are some of my closest friends. They are always the ones who come through in an emergency. Aside from family, they care about us the most and have been around the longest. We see them at least weekly, sometimes more than that. These jokes are not really mean-spirited. Mind you, that doesn't mean they don't annoy me sometimes and once in a while hurt my feelings. In some ways, I think their perspective is that you can joke with those closest to you, and that they will tease me is a sign that they consider me a close friend. That's the double-edged sword of being close to someone. They have the ability to wound you the most. They also feel so comfortable around you and probably say things they wouldn't say to other people.
-
If someone makes fun of you for your tiny and frugal hatchback just tell them you are compensating for your enormous penis.
+1
I literally LOLed at this one. Going to add it to my repertoire.
-
I am considered cheap by my family. I am frugal but not cheap. I go out to dinner twice a month and typically tip 15%-20%. Some of my family members will go out to dinner 4-6 times a month, but tip 10-15%.
Some of my families gambling budget is $2000-$3000/year. Because I only gamble with $200/year I am considered cheap.
They love to complain about money problems. Most of the time they can sleep at night, but some nights they can't. It hurts a little coming from my family because I would like to help them.
My good friends know what is going on. They know that I own 2 rental houses and drive a car that is worth $2,000. Douche bags that I could care less about might give me a hard time about my Pontiac Vibe. However, I just smile and wave because it doesn't bother me at all.
-
smile softly and stare directly into their eyes. For how long? for however long it takes. If they say something that would require a response give them a okay in the form of acknowledgement not one that is okay to provide them permission. If they use another insult reply with "Suurree" or " Yea, Okay" these phrases should be filled with obvious sarcasm for the best effect accompany this with a eye roll and completely change the subject with someone else in the room and pretend they are not there. remember deep breaths remain calm. always smiling always intense stare.
It means you are pleasant but serious. your comments are dismissive of their childishness. It says you are too important/wealthy/busy to deal with someone stuck in high school.
my 0.02
-
Doesn't anyone have hobbies any more? I wish someone would tell me about a house they are fixing up or a car repair they did themselves or a model ship they studied for months before replicating.
Well, the Forums do talk about these things! I guess we will have to be your social media ;- )
Yes, I'll repeat that, there a plenty of great forums covering a wide range of hobbies.
I spend time on several.
Usenet is also fun, but the threads often go OT and deteriorate.
-
I just love when they put it back on you and say "Well, now I won't be free to joke with you any more" ...
Followup, "if you think you're a comedienne, I suggest you keep your day job."
-
Agreed, overthinking this shit way too much. Just don't giving a flippin fuck.
I get into discussions with my sibblings quite often of why i'm not enrolling kids in private school when I can "afford" it, or why i drive a 10+ yr old car, why I don't travel more (don't care btw), eat out more, etc, etc, etc.
I'm honest and to the point, don't even think twice. Straight up say, i don't give a shit about those things.
Maybe try not giving a fuck?
http://markmanson.net/not-giving-a-fuck
-
I had a floor-mate in residence first year university who kept asking me personal questions. Being polite and well-brought-up, I answered, and she got nosier. I finally asked her why she was asking me all this, and she replied that she wanted to see how far she could get me to go. So there are people who really do like to push people's buttons. I got really good at ignoring people like that, or just answering MYOB (a bit more politely) or asking them why they cared to know, or why do they think that is worth saying? Blank stares can be useful too. Of course what I would like to say, in a snarky, tone, is "well aren't you the little nosy Parker/snarker now?" but as I said, too polite.
About a year ago I had to have a serious talk with my Sister because it got toxic during a visit. While we talked it dawned on me that she would fence sit or play devils advocate on just about every topic, instead of sharing what her true views on a subject. Our relationship has been 10X better since the talk.
One of my friends does this. And it actually bothers me more than when someone's friendly banter hits a nerve. Because my conversations with her, by expressing my viewpoint I am sharing something about myself. Whereas she shares nothing. It seems rather unfair, which is why I don't like talking with her.
Anymore when someone doesn't contribute to the conversation I feel like they are sitting in judgment of something I've said - like we have different opinions on something key and perhaps the other person has the attitude that we should have the same opinion or else my POV isn't valid. That whole - "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all..."
Its a big part of why I don't do social media. Seems like people only want to discuss politics, religion and sexuality these days or rather I should say - pass judgement on these topics.
Doesn't anyone have hobbies any more? I wish someone would tell me about a house they are fixing up or a car repair they did themselves or a model ship they studied for months before replicating.
My MIL is this way. It's always devil's advocate, or she's "trying to understand", when she has no need to understand. Gah It drives me nuts.
Similarly with holidays the first question she always asks is what did you get? I always evade her question when she does this. What about experiences? and hobbies (as Jethrosnose said) when did stuff and drama become all that people cared about???
-
Regarding the straightforward approach, the problem with that is that then you become the "sensitive one" and the one with the thin skin. I've seen it happen. Maybe some of us don't want to become "that friend" that everyone thinks they have to tiptoe around.
I actually think the more subtle approach (call if snarky if you will) can be even more effective at changing behavior and effectively maintaining the relationship.
If someone really hurt you at a deep level, sure, bring it up in a more straightforward way. But if it's just a communication style that you don't prefer, I don't think sitting them down and having a heart to heart is going to necessarily give you a better result.
+1 to this. You try to be straightforward, and the group doesn't agree with you that it crossed a line (even though it actually crossed Your line), and you then are singled out. And passive aggressive people in the group will no longer straightforward tease you, but instead point out how "oh we can't make those types of comments, Apples (or whoever) is here". Or they slip and make a joke, and then do a big theatric "oh no! don't be mad at me! hahaha <eyeroll>" that obviously singles you out. Pulling someone aside is only meant for your top 2 or 3 grievances; doing it very often (say to change someone's behavior) IME just leads to you being singled out.
I know this b/c my "love language" is Words of Affection, and when DH and I go visit his family the ratio of nice things said to me to ribbing about all life choices gets completely thrown off, and I get grouchy. I spent a year trying to grow up a bit and set some boundaries. About 60% of the time they worked, but the other 40% led to what I mentioned above. I have a thinner skin than some people due to needing to hear nice things to be accepted moreso than people with a different love language.
-
I'm sure just about everyone has taken part of some sort of friendly banter or battle of wits with our Friends/Family. I've never cared for it that much but I've become very good at playing the game. I admit that it can be fun if people keep it good natured and I'm fine with that. But lately some topics hit a nerve with me and it's odd because I normally have a very thick skin, especially since I spent 23 yrs in the Military and busting each others chops was a daily activity.
Like:
- If someone calls me cheap...I don't think they are being serious but it's like an ice pick in the ribs.
- If someone makes fun of me driving a small hatchback...I have some good come backs for this so I can side step it fairly easy but I feel that this one bothers me because it comes up often. I just feel like showing them my account balance and tell them trust me I can afford something better but choose not to but I also don't want to show them my balance, then they would want to barrow money :-)
- If someone cracks on me for being single or accuses me of being gay...Once again I can shut it down quickly but sometimes I can get down right ugly with my banter.
I know I should just keep a cool head and return fun banter or ask them to back off that topic but dang it's very hard at times. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle these situations? Maybe I'm just getting old and cranky :-)
Maybe it's a little different since I'm female, but I think part of it is also that I just don't view any of those things as jabs. And maybe it's my own arrogance for thinking that how I live my life is superior to how most other people live theirs. But I really do believe that, and so when spendthrifty people make snarky comments about my frugality, my reaction is less to be angry and more to pity them. Kind of like when you see pictures of starving kids in third world countries and think, "boy, I'm super grateful I don't live like that."
For example, if people call me "cheap," I take it as a compliment. I don't admire spendthrifts and would be insulted if someone accused me of wasting my precious financial resources. I realize a lot of other people think of cheapness as a pejorative term, but that's their problem. And if they took the time to actually analyze my finances, they'd see that I'm not cheap about things that really matter to me, only about things that I don't care about. I try to align my spending with my values, and again, I truly believe that's what everyone should do!
Regarding the car, I have one, but I walk to work and laugh when coworkers tell me that's a crazy thing to do. They won't think it's crazy when I'm able to afford to stop going to work at all in a couple more years! Plus, I hate driving. Besides being expensive, it's stressful and a huge waste of time to commute daily if you can avoid it. I'm proud of the fact that I don't have to commute to work. My response to people who rib me about it is, "There's no point in me living within walking distance to work if I don't walk!" Not to mention that I can still wear clothes that I fit into twenty years ago when I was in college.
People sometimes ask why I'm single. I tell them it's because I can be. Marriage just isn't a priority for me. I mean, this is the 21st century. 100 years ago, it was socially unacceptable to be a spinster, but not now. I never wanted kids and don't need a husband to support me, so there's just no strong pressure to get married. Not that I'm opposed to it either if I meet the right person. But I don't ever dream of my perfect wedding day either like a lot of girls supposedly do. I'd much rather just elope. I guess one way I'll know when and if I ever meet Mr. Right is that he'll just want to elope too. :-)
DB, maybe you posted about this somewhere else, but why are you single? How did you make your transformation into frugality? I think you're right that part of you does feel insecure about going against the grain. Maybe it's because of all those years you spent in the military where there's so much pressure to conform?
-
I see myself in a lot of the above. I often (depending on the tone, etc.) take it as a compliment when people call me cheap. At work, there's a much younger group of people who are hoping to have the same career that I (and others) have someday. They tease and make fun of everyone, including themselves, but it's truly done in a fun, friendly way, and you can tell they do it because they want to learn more about the inner workings of the people they want to be like someday. I've thoroughly enjoyed watching their minds explode when they find out that I drive a 9 year old car, eat super healthy food, have paid off my student loans (decades, in some cases, before my colleagues), etc. It's so much fun to show people that you don't have to fit all the stereotypes. I was away from this particular work site for a few months, and when I went back last week, one of these 22 year olds proudly told me "I eat vegetables now!" and showed me on his phone the finance book he'd been reading since I recommended it.
Anyway, I guess my point is that this experience showed me that sometimes you can turn the teasing around and make it fun and helpful for the teas-er.
But ugh, the marriage thing. "When are you going to get married?" I've started just asking people why they so firmly believe that I need to get married. I'm perfectly happy living in sin, thank you very much. (But really, these are generally not religious people who ask me this question, so I don't know why they care, unless it's just that they can't stand someone not conforming.)
-
Lately if I get the single question then I say "I'm unmarried" I think that by saying I'm single sounds desperate. If they ask if your dating then I say I'm dating everyone...as in I have options.